Greetings, fellow testers! As we all know, there's quite a bit of stuff that we don't know what the hell it is. This is the thread you will use to post your findings as you fiddle with stuff to find out what it is!
Now then, for the purposes of this thread, if something referrers to something character specific (such as in the class editor), don't refer to them by name, but rather by the character number (as seen in the character editor).
Alright, I'll start off with some of my findings in the class editor.
Class editor, top value.
1 = Character 0 and Character 4's base class.
2 = Character 1's base class
6 = Character 3's base class
7 = Character 2 and Character 6's base class.
12 = NPC class
13 = Character 5's base class
14 = Character 7's base class
15 = If Mysterious Card is equipped
16 = If Tamer Whip is equipped
17 = If Necronomicon is equipped.
After swapping values 13 and 9 between the Fire Monk series and Flame User, Character 5's base class was now the Fire Monk series, and after setting 5 fire djinn (I forgot to change the element level requirements for the Flame User series), character 3's class changed to Flame User.
I can tell these are linked to the characters, so what we need to do is figure out the specifics. There must be a place in the code that says which class values a character can use. If we could solve this and figure out how exactly it works, we could have 0.3 have a class selection thing in the character editor. In otherwords, we could have a way to tell which classes a character can use. VERY useful for making certain characters NOT SUCK due to having crap for class selection, and for taking out duplicate classes. Not to mention the sheer potential it brings for custom classes.
Just remember this, when you switch classes, their requirements will swap. Example: I switched Felix's/Isaac's base class with the apprentice class. That makes the apprentice class exclusive and the Squire class available. However, in order to get the Squire class, Felix/Isaac had to equip a jupiter djinni to get the Squire class
When you change the class, you'll need to change the values as well. So zach is right, the requirements change. I tested all of this by swapping Jenna and the Page(I think) class. But I forgot to swap the requirements for page, so after adding one fire djinni to Ivan, he went NPC. After adding five, he went Flame User. So yeah, if you change base class, you'll need to change the element level requirements as well.
However, you can use this to your advantage. Who the heck ever uses the useless Trainer Whip and Mysterious Card? Just give them to Sheba and Felix, change the classes to their own unique classes and stats, and have it so that only they can equip it. Oh, and don't forget to adjust the element level requirements as well. Once we get a text editor, you can name these new unique base classes as well!
I gave Felix plant based psys, and based him off of Isaac. He had the Ragnarok, Growth, Throrn, Punji, Cure, and Revive series. He's got lower speed, but higher HP than the Squire class.
Sheba was based on Ivan, and got the Slash, Whirlwind, Plasma, Delude, Paralyze, Dull, and Weaken groups. She has lower attack, but higher defense than the Wind Seer class.
My guess is that the base class overrides everything. Like, if you move Enchanter to 5 Jupiter instead of 1 Jupiter and 1 Venus, there's a gap at 1 Jupiter and 1 Venus. So, when that gap happens, you have two possible classes, and the base class takes priority.
That's my guess as to how it happens.
Quote from: Role on 09, June, 2009, 03:23:00 AMI gave Felix plant based psys, and based him off of Isaac. He had the Ragnarok, Growth, Throrn, Punji, Cure, and Revive series. He's got lower speed, but higher HP than the Squire class.
Sheba was based on Ivan, and got the Slash, Whirlwind, Plasma, Delude, Paralyze, Dull, and Weaken groups. She has lower attack, but higher defense than the Wind Seer class.
Man, we think alike. I gave Felix (in the HM Hack) Helm Splitter, Growth, Thorn, Punji, Rockfall, and one other psynergy series (forget). And Sheba got Bolt, Slash, Gale, Thunderclap, Dull, and Weaken. Heh.
@jamie: The trainer class series as the worst stats in the game, though. Oh, and do kindly tell me what value the mythril bag is in the class set?
The reason I used those two? Necromage is the best of the three. So... Would you kindly test it in the editor before you claim you could do that? Because I'm fairly certain that there is no class value associated with it. No matter what you do, you'll be stuck with class value 12: NPC. Under the current editor, what you suggest cannot be done. IF it could, I'd have used one of the dummy items (the ones called '?').
Would be nice if I could test these things. They are just ideas. So far, I can't use the editor. Would it be possible to assign a value to the Mithril Bag?
Not in the current version of the editor, no. Once we understand these values, we'll be able to do it, though. Anywho, if anyone has anything about some other unknown value, it'd be great to hear it.
Look into figuring out how to dual boot. I know people with macs that dual boot to run windows for those windows-only programs. It'll mean buying windows, though. You'll have to pay money either way.
This post has been edited by Role on Jun 9 2009, 10:31 PM
The Trainer's Whip is amazing once you get to Beastkeeper. Nobody messes with the Gryphon Psynergy. 500 damage a hit!!! And honestly, you know what I'd do? I'd make the Mythril Bag bestow a class, so that Felix's class is different from Isaac's and you can still use the Trainer's Whip and Mysterious Card. (Both of which have some fairly awesome Psynergy.) The Tomegathericon is excellent at Necromage, so using it is out of the question. Then take an unused item, make it bestow an unused class, and then edit the class' stats and Psys.
Already did it, zach. It's why I recommended it. It works. But you have to remove it to cross-class your characters. However, by the time we get the ability to change what gives you the class, we should also be able to change how characters get their classes in the first place, thus un-linking Felix/Isaac and Ivan/Sheba
Anywho, has anyone else figured out what some of these unknown values are?
What if someone made it so that the mysterious card bestowed a different class depending on the element of the character that uses it? That could get quite interesting. Alt. Base Classes for the win!
hmmm perhaps, Jamie, perhaps... Piers as an Aqua Knight ftw xD
Sheba not being an Ivan clone for the win!
so... what should sheba be? the badass mascot?
The Trainer Whip should also bestow different classes to different characters, maybe based on element, or if in the game's coding, there is a kill count...
Then it might be possible to have a kill count for specific monsters, and the whip will give specific summon psynergies depending on the amount of a type of monster killed.
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:
@weckar: I was thinking make Sheba wind and Ivan lightning. Since no one uses the Mysterious Card anyway (Trainer has better Physical Psys and higher Attack, and Dark Mage has better Psys and Revive), I was thinking have lots of Mysterious Cards available, and have them bestow a different class on each character. Of course, then you'd have to provide some that automatically come with Sheba and Felix.
Guys... that's not what this topic is about. Discuss that kind of stuff in a new topic please.
Sorry Role... Anyway, since I am waiting a little while to get a new computer, I was wondering if there is anything that I can test for either Golden sun, without using the editor. If not, then I will be of more help in a week or two.
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:
Quote from: Role on 13, June, 2009, 01:42:00 PMQuote from: zach on 12, June, 2009, 12:49:00 PM
Thanks, that saves me the time of doing that.
For the unknown number variables, I will try my best to help you with that. I've noticed that classes with 2 versions (includes most of the classes) have the same numbers, so I assume that shows some connection to each other. However, some of these classes shares the same numbers with other class.
Here's an example: Apprentice and Page class series has the same number variable as the Flame User class series, which to my knowledge isn't related to those 2 classes.
Example #2: Guard class series has the same number as the Tamer class series, which to my knowledge isn't related to the Guard class series.
Is it possible that they may be related or is it possible that it goes deeper then we can decipher with the current editor?
Oh, sorry didn't see that. Is this the Unknown top value, or one of the bottom values in the class editor?
the number variable in the bottom left corner
Yeah... I've no clue what that number is. I fail to see how it works, though I've not fiddled with it yet. Problem is, dunno how to fiddle with it when I can't figure out what it could possibly be for...
We have required element levels, 'character values', and... well, that's the only thing I can think of that this thing goes off of. Perhaps it has something to do with affecting the RNG? Dunno... I do know that in GS1 when going for a perfect levelup file, some classes work with RNGs to get the perfect level, whereas others don't... perhaps that's what it does. But how do you test that in GS2?
Quote from: Role on 13, June, 2009, 06:22:00 AMYeah... I've no clue what that number is. I fail to see how it works, though I've not fiddled with it yet. Problem is, dunno how to fiddle with it when I can't figure out what it could possibly be for...
We have required element levels, 'character values', and... well, that's the only thing I can think of that this thing goes off of. Perhaps it has something to do with affecting the RNG? Dunno... I do know that in GS1 when going for a perfect levelup file, some classes work with RNGs to get the perfect level, whereas others don't... perhaps that's what it does. But how do you test that in GS2?
well I didn't know how to go about testing it, so i just switched the values with another class to see if something would happen, but nothing did. However, I do stand by my theory that the classes that share the same number variables with classes that are not another verison of it (Example: Page and Apprentice with the same number variable as the Flame User) may be related to each other. BUt, it's just a guess
aww Role, you didn't even comment on my theory <.<
Quote from: zach on 12, June, 2009, 12:49:00 PM
Thanks, that saves me the time of doing that.
For the unknown number variables, I will try my best to help you with that. I've noticed that classes with 2 versions (includes most of the classes) have the same numbers, so I assume that shows some connection to each other. However, some of these classes shares the same numbers with other class.
Here's an example: Apprentice and Page class series has the same number variable as the Flame User class series, which to my knowledge isn't related to those 2 classes.
Example #2: Guard class series has the same number as the Tamer class series, which to my knowledge isn't related to the Guard class series.
Is it possible that they may be related or is it possible that it goes deeper then we can decipher with the current editor?
Oh, sorry didn't see that. Is this the Unknown top value, or one of the bottom values in the class editor?
Oh yeah, I have a question that sort of fits into this topic, since some labels and digits are for classes in one section, and others are for equipment stats, right?
Well, I was thinking... Is it, or would it be, possible to edit the useable weapons... What I mean is would it be possible to have Felix as a squire and able to use swords, yet if we can change him to a wind seer, then he can use staves?
I was not sure which thread was the best to post this, but since this thread is talking about class values, then I thought that it might be appropiate to ask here.
Thank you in advance for answering.
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:
Class has nothing to do with equipment. That's BUILD. The build is determined in an... interesting way. You see, if you want to have a weapon equippable to felix that normally isn't, then just go to that weapon in the ITEM EDITOR and make it equippable to Felix. There's no other way to do it, though. Class has nothing to do with that.
It's the item editor that determines a characters build. There are five types of build, in two categories - Gender, and Body
Gender comes in Male and Female. Duh. Some eq is only equipped by males, other only by females. For example, dresses are exclusive to females, whereas some armors could be only for males (or really flat females, if they can fit).
Body comes in "Fighter", "Spellsword", and "Pure Mage". Fighters have Axes, Longswords, Light Blades, Maces, and Heavy Armor. Spellswords have Light Blades, Staves, Ankhs, and Robes. Pure Mages have Maces, Staves, Ankhs, and Robes.
All characters can use Clothing-type equipment.
So yeah... Class has nothing to do with it. And can't have anything to do with it. And SHOULDN'T have anything to do with it. Just because you make Mia a Dragoon doesn't mean she can suddenly equip heavy weapons.
Well, I do see your point... It would be cool to be able to make weapons related to classes though, but it might get weird.
Oh yes, I was wondering... Since you said...
Quote1 = Character 0 and Character 4's base class.
2 = Character 1's base class
6 = Character 3's base class
7 = Character 2 and Character 6's base class.
12 = NPC class
13 = Character 5's base class
14 = Character 7's base class
15 = If Mysterious Card is equipped
16 = If Tamer Whip is equipped
17 = If Necronomicon is equipped.
I was wondering (and since I have barely used the class editor yet), if 1 = Character 0 and Character 4's base classes, then how do you make them both have different base classes? I was also wondering this for 7.
Oh yeah, I found out that it does not matter where Star Magician is when it uses Mystic Call, it will summon those Balls. I know this because I switched the skeleton enemy group in Southern Indra with Star Magician.
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:
EDIT: Now, I am sure that many of you have seen the 4 unknown digits that are above the rewards and under the moveset(s) of an enemy. I have noticed that many enemies are related because of these. Many enemies do not change if you change these numbers, but I have started to notice more things...
Briggs, Sea Fighter, and Chestbeater have, from left to right, 20, 75, 24, 0.
Ruffains that you fight when you control Jenna, and Toadonpa have 20, 75, 24, 0.
Moapa, Bandit, and Thief have 20, 75, 0, 0. So does Seabird, but it is not a boss.
Knight (Moapa's team) has 23, 85, 24, 0.
Also, Saturos, Menardi, Sentinel, Valukar, Serpent, and Karst have 12, 13, 0, 0.
King Scorpion and Avimander have 12, 13, 24, 0.
Agatio, Dullahan, Storm Lizard, Tempest Lizard, and Star Magician have 8, 9, 0, 0.
Star Magician's Balls (Anger Ball, Guardian Ball, Thunder Ball, Refresh Ball) all have 0, 0, 0, 0.
Doom Dragon and Fusion Dragon have 0, 0, 0, 0.
All of the Djinni have 32, 69, 0, 0.
Tret has 16, 17, 0, 0.
Kraken has 16, 17, 24, 0.
Aqua Hydra has 24, 23, 85, 0.
Poseidon has 31, 60, 0, 0.
Killer Ape has 31, 60, 24, 0, 0.
Does anyone else notice a pattern forming among some of these numbers (excluding the 0's)?
Also, bosses that have normal enemy clones (Chestbeater, Wild Gorilla) will have the same numbers as their clones.
Briggs has the same numbers as Moapa, plus one number that matches King Scorpion. Also, King Scorpion has the same numbers as Karst, as well as 24, the same number that Moapa's Knights and Briggs (his Sea Fighters and the Chestbeaters as well) have as their third. This is just to name a few similarities.
Does anybody have any idea what these do?
Changing Aqua Hydra's numbers to match Briggs' numbers appeared to do nothing. Nothing hapenned when they were turned into Doom Dragon's numbers. I also noticed that many enemies have 24 as their third digit, but the first two are different for some of them.
EDIT 2: I just realized something about the digits (I still have to test it)...
Maybe these 4 digits decide how often an enemy will appear...
This will not work for bosses, obviously, but for regular enemies, these numbers might decide, for example, how rare it is to see a Pheonix in Magma Rock (this is why related monsters share these numbers, because if one monster is rare, then why should its relatives be common)?
This is just a guess because you would think that these numbers should be with the group editor... That would explain why Djinni all have the same numbers, but their numbers do not match any other monster. You can only defeat each one once (you can fight them more than once if they flee). However, I do have some doubts on this theory...
Djinni have 32, 69, 0, 0.
Mimics have 16, 17, 0, 0 (same numbers as Tret, similar numbers to Kraken).
Mad Plants have 24, 0, 0, 0 (the same numbers as Vermin and Demon (I think).
Also, has anyone else noticed that for pretty much every monster, the last number is always 0? Maybe that affects something...
I am also starting to think that the order in which the numbers appear might not matter as much...
I also noticed that all of the enemies with 24 in their list of numbers initiate battles with you, but the rest of them either have a minor cutscene or you initiate battles with them. I have not seen many regular monsters with 24, except for those who are related to Chestbeaters (among a few others with 24). Also, you approach Sentinel and Star Magician, while the Mad Plant approaches you (but you cause the mini-cutscene, which might be why it has 24 as its firswt number, and the rest are 0).
I hope that these are somewhat accurate, and I hope that everyone has a nice day.
I changed Seabird's last number to 20. I am not sure if it had any effect, but it appeared to not appear as often. However, when I changed more monsters to have 20 as well, nothing appeard abnormal. I then went to the world map, but the game crashed shortly after. I am not sure if changing the number to 20 had anything to do with it. I will try changing it to 1 and I will see if that does anything.
I changed Mimic's third number to 24 (the mimic in the temple where you get Lash), but nothing appeared to happen. With all of this information, we have several ideas as to what they might do. Here are a few of my guesses... I know that it is the correct mimic because it dropped a Halt gem.
- They are just indicators. The numbers tell you specific details about them (eg. 24 means that they start the battle with you, not you with them). Changing the numbers does nothing, since these just indicate what happens in the original file. To change these, the coding of the game should be changed.
- By changing these, it might be possible to change events/how the enemy is met. Having the number 24 seems to change how a battle will start. Enemies with similar numbers might be related, and more likely to appear together (if allowed in group editing mode). - Enemies that are related to each other share traits (mainly wild enemies, eg. Dino and Dinox). Because they have similar numbers, they will have similar traits. Possibly affected by how often they will appear in an area.
- It might be possible to decide how compatible they are with certain moves, and if they are likely to be affected by status ailments like stun, or sleep.
- The numbers affect different abilities, such as Posiedon's shield,
and Doom Dragon's three heads each being a seperate enemy.- The numbers indicate what happens when you defeat the enemy. Posiedon dies, you can go to Lemuria. Briggs dies, and you can continue. A Djinni dies, and it joins your party. This might explain why many anemies have different numbers, or else the game would not register certain commands or paths in the programming properly.
- It could be any variation of these, or any of these at the same time. This would mean that they could determine both immunity to status ailments and special abilities.
- The numbers are indicators, but the corresponding events can be changed. However, different numbers indicate different events.
- These numbers are used to prevent the game from crashing. Since many animations are used in the game, as well as many movesets (not to mention multiple movesets), then these numbers are required to prevent the game from not reading a command properly.- I have noticed that the final number for every enemy is 0. I have not found a single enemy with their fourth number being anything different. Because of this, I will type in different numbers for fighting that Mimic again. You will see these either at the end of this post, or in a new post of somebody types a new post to go after this one.
These are just some of the ideas that I have. The ideas that are underlined means that I do not think that they would be correct anymore. However, I have posted even those that I do not think are correct anymore for speculation (and just in case I am wrong).
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:
This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 26 2009, 01:24 PM
Quote from: Salanewt on 14, June, 2009, 11:26:00 AMWell, I do see your point... It would be cool to be able to make weapons related to classes though, but it might get weird.
Oh yes, I was wondering... Since you said...
Quote1 = Character 0 and Character 4's base class.
2 = Character 1's base class
6 = Character 3's base class
7 = Character 2 and Character 6's base class.
12 = NPC class
13 = Character 5's base class
14 = Character 7's base class
15 = If Mysterious Card is equipped
16 = If Tamer Whip is equipped
17 = If Necronomicon is equipped.
I was wondering (and since I have barely used the class editor yet), if 1 = Character 0 and Character 4's base classes, then how do you make them both have different base classes? I was also wondering this for 7.
Oh yeah, I found out that it does not matter where Star Magician is when it uses Mystic Call, it will summon those Balls. I know this because I switched the skeleton enemy group in Southern Indra with Star Magician.
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:
EDIT: Now, I am sure that many of you have seen the 4 unknown digits that are above the rewards and under the moveset(s) of an enemy. I have noticed that many enemies are related because of these. Many enemies do not change if you change these numbers, but I have started to notice more things...
Briggs, Sea Fighter, and Chestbeater have, from left to right, 20, 75, 24, 0.
Ruffains that you fight when you control Jenna, and Toadonpa have 20, 75, 24, 0.
Moapa, Bandit, and Thief have 20, 75, 0, 0. So does Seabird, but it is not a boss.
Knight (Moapa's team) has 23, 85, 24, 0.
Also, Saturos, Menardi, Sentinel, Valukar, Serpent, and Karst have 12, 13, 0, 0.
King Scorpion and Avimander have 12, 13, 24, 0.
Agatio, Dullahan, Storm Lizard, Tempest Lizard, and Star Magician have 8, 9, 0, 0.
Star Magician's Balls (Anger Ball, Guardian Ball, Thunder Ball, Refresh Ball) all have 0, 0, 0, 0.
Doom Dragon and Fusion Dragon have 0, 0, 0, 0.
All of the Djinni have 32, 69, 0, 0.
Tret has 16, 17, 0, 0.
Kraken has 16, 17, 24, 0.
Aqua Hydra has 24, 23, 85, 0.
Poseidon has 31, 60, 0, 0.
Killer Ape has 31, 60, 24, 0, 0.
Does anyone else notice a pattern forming among some of these numbers (excluding the 0's)?
Also, bosses that have normal enemy clones (Chestbeater, Wild Gorilla) will have the same numbers as their clones.
Briggs has the same numbers as Moapa, plus one number that matches King Scorpion. Also, King Scorpion has the same numbers as Karst, as well as 24, the same number that Moapa's Knights and Briggs (his Sea Fighters and the Chestbeaters as well) have as their third. This is just to name a few similarities.
Does anybody have any idea what these do?
Changing Aqua Hydra's numbers to match Briggs' numbers appeared to do nothing. Nothing hapenned when they were turned into Doom Dragon's numbers. I also noticed that many enemies have 24 as their third digit, but the first two are different for some of them.
EDIT 2: I just realized something about the digits (I still have to test it)...
Maybe these 4 digits decide how often an enemy will appear...
This will not work for bosses, obviously, but for regular enemies, these numbers might decide, for example, how rare it is to see a Pheonix in Magma Rock (this is why related monsters share these numbers, because if one monster is rare, then why should its relatives be common)?
This is just a guess because you would think that these numbers should be with the group editor... That would explain why Djinni all have the same numbers, but their numbers do not match any other monster. You can only defeat each one once (you can fight them more than once if they flee). However, I do have some doubts on this theory...
Djinni have 32, 69, 0, 0.
Mimics have 16, 17, 0, 0 (same numbers as Tret, similar numbers to Kraken).
Mad Plants have 24, 0, 0, 0 (the same numbers as Vermin and Demon (I think).
Also, has anyone else noticed that for pretty much every monster, the last number is always 0? Maybe that affects something...
I am also starting to think that the order in which the numbers appear might not matter as much...
I also noticed that all of the enemies with 24 in their list of numbers initiate battles with you, but the rest of them either have a minor cutscene or you initiate battles with them. I have not seen many regular monsters with 24, except for those who are related to Chestbeaters (among a few others with 24). Also, you approach Sentinel and Star Magician, while the Mad Plant approaches you (but you cause the mini-cutscene, which might be why it has 24 as its firswt number, and the rest are 0).
I hope that these are somewhat accurate, and I hope that everyone has a nice day.
I changed Seabird's last number to 20. I am not sure if it had any effect, but it appeared to not appear as often. However, when I changed more monsters to have 20 as well, nothing appeard abnormal. I then went to the world map, but the game crashed shortly after. I am not sure if changing the number to 20 had anything to do with it. I will try changing it to 1 and I will see if that does anything.
I changed Mimic's third number to 24 (the mimic in the temple where you get Lash), but nothing appeared to happen. With all of this information, we have several ideas as to what they might do. Here are a few of my guesses... I know that it is the correct mimic because it dropped a Halt gem.
- They are just indicators. The numbers tell you specific details about them (eg. 24 means that they start the battle with you, not you with them). Changing the numbers does nothing, since these just indicate what happens in the original file. To change these, the coding of the game should be changed.
- By changing these, it might be possible to change events/how the enemy is met. Having the number 24 seems to change how a battle will start. Enemies with similar numbers might be related, and more likely to appear together (if allowed in group editing mode).
- Enemies that are related to each other share traits (mainly wild enemies, eg. Dino and Dinox). Because they have similar numbers, they will have similar traits. Possibly affected by how often they will appear in an area.
- It might be possible to decide how compatible they are with certain moves, and if they are likely to be affected by status ailments like stun, or sleep.
- The numbers affect different abilities, such as Posiedon's shield, and Doom Dragon's three heads each being a seperate enemy.
- The numbers indicate what happens when you defeat the enemy. Posiedon dies, you can go to Lemuria. Briggs dies, and you can continue. A Djinni dies, and it joins your party. This might explain why many anemies have different numbers, or else the game would not register certain commands or paths in the programming properly.
- It could be any variation of these, or any of these at the same time. This would mean that they could determine both immunity to status ailments and special abilities.
- The numbers are indicators, but the corresponding events can be changed. However, different numbers indicate different events.
- These numbers are used to prevent the game from crashing. Since many animations are used in the game, as well as many movesets (not to mention multiple movesets), then these numbers are required to prevent the game from not reading a command properly.
- I have noticed that the final number for every enemy is 0. I have not found a single enemy with their fourth number being anything different. Because of this, I will type in different numbers for fighting that Mimic again. You will see these either at the end of this post, or in a new post of somebody types a new post to go after this one.
These are just some of the ideas that I have. The ideas that are underlined means that I do not think that they would be correct anymore. However, I have posted even those that I do not think are correct anymore for speculation (and just in case I am wrong).
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:
That's a good theory Salanewt. Also, Moapa is a boss and Bandit and Thief are optional (sub-?) bosses
This post has been edited by zach on Jun 26 2009, 01:29 PM
Thank you.
By the way, for the fourth number (which seems to always be 0), I changed it to 1 for the mimic. I killed it, and nothing seemed to happen. I once also changed that number to 20 for several other enemies, but nothing seemed to happen either. I have just changed it to 100, but nothing changed...
Either my indicator only theory is correct, or it does not work on fixed battles (not random). I will have to see. By the way, new theory about having 24 in there.
If the numbers are only indicators, then 24 indicates if it is a random battle or not... 24 for it being a random battle (slightly random, not like the world map random or dungeon random), and 0 if the event to fight the monster is taking place before the fight (Moapa is planned, his Knights are not. But they join in with Moapa).
By the way, I am aware that Moapa is a boss, and Bandit is an optional boss. However, I included every monster that I could think of that was a once only battle. Oh, I forgot about the Tolbi Knights!
Okay then, Azart, Satrage, and Navampa have, from left to right, 20, 75, 24, 0 (same as Briggs and the Chestbeaters, which gives evidence to some of my theories).
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:
This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 26 2009, 01:37 PM
I'm almost 100% sure the numbers are not related at all to the "Game Progress" switch that tracks what you've done and what you haven't.
I would think the data for where, and how they appear would be more related to enemy groups than individual enemies.
True enough... But these are just theories that might help shed some light as to what they do (or do not do) in the future. However, for how often they appear, it would make sense for the group editor, but it is possible that the numbers indicate how likely they might be in a group if the minimum is 0, and the maximum is higher. However, this is just a theory, and I do have many doubts about that one myself.
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:
This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 27 2009, 04:12 PM
So how's the progress looking now?
Earlier in this topic, it seemed that y'all didn't know the top value in the class editor...
If y'all still haven't found out yet (I tried quickly skimming over this topic.), I think it is the minimum level requirement. (Tested with GS2.)
For example, if Piers is Commander and you edit that value of Commander to be higher then Piers level, to see the results... put djinni's on standby to degrade class, and then when you go to set them back, you will see that Pier's class did not go back to Commander.
Also, this also makes sense due to the number "1" in the first few classes...
Edit: Oops. disregard this post, this can get tricky sometimes.
|
v
Actually, that has something to do with the character's Primary Element Level and Secondary Element Level.
On the other hand, I have some info too:
Y'know the first unlabeled value in the Enemy Editor (the value to the left of the value used to set the chances of using each move)? If you set it to 1, the enemy won't try to use abilities they don't have enough PP for. Setting it to 2 or 3 I believe impacts what items they use, when they use them, and whether they sometimes use items interchangeably with the ability in the same slot. For instance, Briggs' value there is 2 (IIRC): He automatically uses all items in his possession BEFORE he uses any other command (I KNOW this one is true, but I'm not sure about the value). This became annoying when I wanted him to use his skills FIRST, so that he would use his Sacred Feather to restore 30% of his PP (yeah, I edited the Sacred Feather to restore PP instead of using Avoid) instead of using the Attack command.
Oh, thankyou for correcting me...
Anyway, it seems Golden sun 2, also has arrangements in the Battle Data... Which reminds me of Superstar Saga....
Well... Superstar saga even has an arrangements database too, so the bytes in the battle database would index to them.
Anyway... I've made some notes here.... so I'll just store them below ... (also, so it doesn't seem like I'm going off-topic.)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/11rsw3d.png)
P.S. - This game having enemies form a line... I doubt it has an arrangements database like Superstar Saga.
I've noticed the first enemy can be on the left, middle, or right, as opposed to the other two.
It seems those are the only three numbers used for that value....
----
and my next theory... all battles that are in one room are right next to each other in the list... (Well, Superstar Saga is like this, and for random battles they use a percentage literally in the battle data.... so...) ---
(http://i49.tinypic.com/51ugrt.png)
It just looks like they are in groups of 10, actually, I bet if I go under that red box and change the enemies in them, I'd be adding battles to this room... since each room may easily be able to have up to 10 battles. Just a wild guess. Since I'm thinking that each room has like one or two bytes to get the collection of battles? One might be the number of battles... but I dunno.
Um? Are you sure the last group is correct? "Venus Djinni" it just looks like something that should be removed..... (In otherwords... I've had a suspicion that data is actually something else...
I'm sorry that this may be off-topic and all... but what's up with this?
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2r436h0.png)
Mad Vermin and Hydra don't match.
I restart the editor and now they do match... but just note that this battle editor may need fixing.
Quote from: charleysdrpepper on 18, June, 2010, 09:51:24 PM
Earlier in this topic, it seemed that y'all didn't know the top value in the class editor...
If y'all still haven't found out yet (I tried quickly skimming over this topic.), I think it is the minimum level requirement. (Tested with GS2.)
For example, if Piers is Commander and you edit that value of Commander to be higher then Piers level, to see the results... put djinni's on standby to degrade class, and then when you go to set them back, you will see that Pier's class did not go back to Commander.
Also, this also makes sense due to the number "1" in the first few classes...
Edit: Oops. disregard this post, this can get tricky sometimes.
|
v
Atrius already checked the code and confirmed that it has to do with element levels. See Atrius' post in: http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=475.25
JamieTheFlameUser, yes, I'd figured as much though that value also seems to affect the meaning of the check boxes beside abilities.
Charleysdrpepper, thank you for the tip about sorting.
Quoteand my next theory... all battles that are in one room are right next to each other in the list
That wouldn't surprise me, it's not uncommon for the data to end up organized like that. It doesn't help us out much though because it still doesn't tell us how the game figures out exactly which enemy groups correspond to which room. There's no actual value associated with this so it's not of any use to me really.
Your last point really belongs in the error report thread, I'll look into it, but it would be nice if you posted more specifics about what exactly you were doing when it happened there. If it's why I suspect it is that error has already been fixed for the next release.
Hm... maybe the offset for the enemy groups is in the room data?
QuoteCharleysdrpepper, thank you for the tip about sorting.
Quoteand my next theory... all battles that are in one room are right next to each other in the list
That wouldn't surprise me, it's not uncommon for the data to end up organized like that. It doesn't help us out much though because it still doesn't tell us how the game figures out exactly which enemy groups correspond to which room. There's no actual value associated with this so it's not of any use to me really.
Actually, I think Room's index Battle Collections.. and the collections say which battles are possible... (Found something.)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/izrymw.png)
I'm not 100% sure if the box is off, but it should be about 1C bytes.
Edit: Have you actually found this data yet?
I'd looked through the data I found while making the map viewer for anything related to it, but I hadn't actually started searching specifically for that data yet, no.
The pointer's location itself is promising, that area of the ROM is one of the locations I would have expected to find it since it's right by other similar data for rooms including where music is assigned to them, the name that appears when you enter them, as well as a few premade idle scripts for NPCs among other things. Good find, I'll look into seeing how the code uses it.
So then, does that mean that it could be possible to assign specific battles in an area to a specific room? If so, then... heh... heh heh heh...
This data is for the standard random battles. Looks to be a limit of 8 monster groups per area.
I'm still trying to track down how exactly it assigns this data to a room, and the meaning of the data other than the monster group indexes. This is just speculation, but I would guess that Charleysdrpepper is right about the values for how often battles happen and the last 8 bytes may weigh how often specific battles occur.
Up to 8 encounters per area, eh? Then it makes sense why they do the monster groups the way they do, to give it the semblance of more variety.
Quote from: Atrius on 20, June, 2010, 12:48:58 AM
This data is for the standard random battles. Looks to be a limit of 8 monster groups per area.
I'm still trying to track down how exactly it assigns this data to a room, and the meaning of the data other than the monster group indexes. This is just speculation, but I would guess that Charleysdrpepper is right about the values for how often battles happen and the last 8 bytes may weigh how often specific battles occur.
The last 8 bytes being how often specific battles occur, most of them seem to be divisible by 5. (5%, 10%, 20%, probably) But they don't seem to add up to 100%.
In case you haven't found it yet...
(http://i46.tinypic.com/5u2454.png)
^ It was not actually that far from the data... so I found it in a breeze.
I'm not sure what the rest of it does, but when I edit the FF ones, it seems to keep me from getting battles. (Are they X, Y, Width, and Height related? Not sure.... but I bet the first one is 16-bit indexing something related to it...) Like I was able to get battles on the left side of the room and not on the right, at one point...
-----
By the way, I wonder if this will reach version 0.3, it doesn't look like it would be that hard for you to program... Ofcourse, I seem to remember you not wanting to start any other projects in the editor until your current ones are complete.... but that doesn't mean you can't add them afterwards....
The first 0xFFFF is the entrance to the room you came in at. The second one appears to be for story triggers, the only maps I noticed that seem to use it are inside Pier's ship, and Kibombo Mountains(?).
Quote from: charleysdrpepper on 19, June, 2010, 06:50:05 AM
Oh, thankyou for correcting me...
Anyway, it seems Golden sun 2, also has arrangements in the Battle Data... Which reminds me of Superstar Saga....
Well... Superstar saga even has an arrangements database too, so the bytes in the battle database would index to them.
Anyway... I've made some notes here.... so I'll just store them below ... (also, so it doesn't seem like I'm going off-topic.)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/11rsw3d.png)
P.S. - This game having enemies form a line... I doubt it has an arrangements database like Superstar Saga.
I've noticed the first enemy can be on the left, middle, or right, as opposed to the other two.
It seems those are the only three numbers used for that value....
----
and my next theory... all battles that are in one room are right next to each other in the list... (Well, Superstar Saga is like this, and for random battles they use a percentage literally in the battle data.... so...) ---
(http://i49.tinypic.com/51ugrt.png)
It just looks like they are in groups of 10, actually, I bet if I go under that red box and change the enemies in them, I'd be adding battles to this room... since each room may easily be able to have up to 10 battles. Just a wild guess. Since I'm thinking that each room has like one or two bytes to get the collection of battles? One might be the number of battles... but I dunno.
Um? Are you sure the last group is correct? "Venus Djinni" it just looks like something that should be removed..... (In otherwords... I've had a suspicion that data is actually something else...
I'm sorry that this may be off-topic and all... but what's up with this?
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2r436h0.png)
Mad Vermin and Hydra don't match.
I restart the editor and now they do match... but just note that this battle editor may need fixing.
The enemy list theory is somewhat correct. The group of enemies before ??? are the enemies that appear in an area. I posted that finding in the Golden Sun ID + Monster Location topic back in January o.O. Btw, starting from 240, the enemies couplings are in order by location :) (unless it's a djinni, mimic, or boss, as they
won't be in the same group.
Quote from: Zach on 16, January, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
Enemy Editor Locations. This list provides the numbers that are used for enemies to appear in the location that it's put underneath. However, I will not be posting names (excluding bosses, mimics, mad plants, and djinni) since they're a little different in my editor, so bear with me please
Suhalla Gate
48. - 50.
Gateway Cave
51.
North Indra - Overworld
240. - 247.
Kandorean Temple
250. - 257.
650. Mimic
12. Mercury Djinni - Fog
52. Chestbeater
Shrine of the Sea God
260. - 267.
36. Jupiter Djinni - Breath
Dehkan Plateau
270. - 277.
24. Mars Djinni - Cannon
South Indra - Overworld
280. - 287.
1. Iron
Madra Catacombs
290. - 295.
West Osenia - Overworld
300. - 307.
13. Mercury Djinni - Sour
Yampi Desert
310. - 317.
37. Jupiter Djinni - Blitz
54. King Scorpion
Alhafra
55. Briggs