Ok. I am wanting to learn more about sprite art. i have read that for Golden Sun, they "used rendering and shrinkage from a larger image, hence the variation and blending of colors." I am not sure if this is true. also, i would like any good tips when making sprites and also what the best program to use is. please explain why that program is useful if you suggest one. my main problem is getting the sprite into golden sun style. i can make what i want the sprite to look like, its just not GS-ish enough. i appreciate all help and tips. Thanx! :)
Paint.net is great for sprite work, allowing you to be able to zoom in and it lets you see which pixels you are working with by making a guided screen that shows all the pixels you can work with.
(http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/KainUltima/paint.png)
Lol, I have actually been using Paint for the past year or so, occasionally using Gimp when I need transparency. But yes, Paint.net is excellent for spriting.
Quotei have read that for Golden Sun, they "used rendering and shrinkage from a larger image, hence the variation and blending of colors." I am not sure if this is true.
This may or may not be true, but doing it that way works well too; provided you can model. It also takes less time to make individual frames, because you can just slightly modify and rotate the model to create several frames. While I have not done this myself, I believe Atrius has made a few sheets this way - and they look really good.
What I do is a bit different though; I copy sprites that already exist, and I modify them until they look like what I want... The editor is a great tool for copying sprites. If you have a hand at spriting this way, I suggest that you play around with location sprites until you have a feel for Golden Sun's style. When you think you are up to it, then some PC/NPC sprites would be fun to try out too.
In my opinion, rendering 3D models produces the best results.
[spoiler=Large Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/AtriusV/sprites/Aram.gif)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/AtriusV/Random%20Screens/GSmaya.png)
[/spoiler]
It's the same technique I used to make Kari too:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/AtriusV/Games/Golden%20Sun%20Project/KariSheet.gif)
I used Maya, but there's a free 3D modeling program called Blender. They're pretty complex to use though.
Oh! So that's how you do it! Thanks Atrius! I think you just showed me the last piece of the puzzle I needed to make sprites in 3d.
So that is the trick .... Nicely done btw.
Also john, only world sprites? or are you gonna learn to make battle ones too?
Actually, that brings up a good question - Atrius, how detailed would you have to be to pull off battle sprites with that program of yours? I can see that the overworld sprites don't need it, but battle sprites are a bit different in that regard.
There's a lot of ways to do sprites isn't there? I bring my zoom in Photoshop to 600, create myself a palette usually based off my favourite colours or palettes used by my favourite games, and then I just start doodleing. I keep a 50% transparent white layer inbetween layers [I do each frame on a different layer] so I can tell how the character is moving.
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/170/e/c/new_post_v2_by_RTSSH21.gif) and, even though his head moves too much [one of my very first sprites], (http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/128/7/5/JupiterAdept_MvmntSpriteAngle1_by_RTSSH21.gif) were both made using Photoshop.
Ah Blender... its like the computer artists duck tape. it can do almost every thing you need, and has more uses then you can count.
For the sprites... eh... that's most likely the best way to make them... and in fact for the character sprites, I would say you should make them in blender.
As for me, and the rest of the sprites, I think i'll stick to paint.net (at least until i learn blender)
(After looking at the sprites for characters I'm sure they used some 3d program to make the sprites.)
I do have one question. The GS sprites all have an interesting lighting kinda glare on them, (making me think a 3d program) I'm wondering if there is a easy way fake this with a program like paint.net... those subtle differences in color never look right when i try to do it....
Quote from: Role on 27, October, 2011, 02:23:09 AM
Actually, that brings up a good question - Atrius, how detailed would you have to be to pull off battle sprites with that program of yours? I can see that the overworld sprites don't need it, but battle sprites are a bit different in that regard.
I haven't tried making any yet, but they are a bit more detailed. You can get a an idea by examining some sprites from the game.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/AtriusV/Games/Golden%20Sun%20Project/508.gif)
Additionally, with overworld sprites you can get away with making the character out of disconnected shapes, and just moving those shapes around to animate them. With battle sprites you're probably going to need to actually rig the model properly to animate it.
Quote from: Griever on 27, October, 2011, 01:17:40 AM
Also john, only world sprites? or are you gonna learn to make battle ones too?
sorry for the late reply. just got out of a school festival I had to work at. any way. thanx for the suggestions. I'm starting with world sprites. heck Atrius hasn't even tried battle sprites. my last attempt at battle sprites sucked. :/
(http://i39.tinypic.com/9vha8h_th.png)
QuoteI used Maya, but there's a free 3D modeling program called Blender. They're pretty complex to use though.
I have had blender for a while actually but gave up trying to use it. I guess ill start tinkering with it. is it hard to make a basic sprite like the one u did in maya?
this is my most recent attempt at a sprite. :/
(http://oi41.tinypic.com/10i9xzd.jpg)
the big one is the original I made. the other is me trying to match gs style.
Quote from: Atrius on 27, October, 2011, 01:47:54 PM
Quote from: Role on 27, October, 2011, 02:23:09 AM
Actually, that brings up a good question - Atrius, how detailed would you have to be to pull off battle sprites with that program of yours? I can see that the overworld sprites don't need it, but battle sprites are a bit different in that regard.
I haven't tried making any yet, but they are a bit more detailed. You can get a an idea by examining some sprites from the game.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/AtriusV/Games/Golden%20Sun%20Project/508.gif)
Additionally, with overworld sprites you can get away with making the character out of disconnected shapes, and just moving those shapes around to animate them. With battle sprites you're probably going to need to actually rig the model properly to animate it.
Aye. Not only that, but given how several hack ideas are looking, it may need to be done on a per-weapon basis, since we may be taking a page from DD and have different poses based on what weapon type is equipped, so it'd be done in a weapon-in-hand manner... Plus an unarmed sprite. I'd love to see an example if you or someone else can put something together.
A model is very easy to animate once it has been rigged properly (which basically means to set up a skeleton for the model), especially when GS really doesn't have much animation to speak of - most of the time you'd practically just be posing the characters. So doing different versions for the different weapons doesn't seem like an issue, building the models and rigging them is the bigger part of it.
Looking at the battle sprites, it seems like you could still get away with relatively simple models...
I could try using this method to put together a GS-style spritesheet for proof of concept, since I'm about to start modeling a character for animation anyway, and it has to be finished two weeks from now.
Atrius: are the sprites you did simply resized renders, or have you been doing some post editing? Also, what method did you use to confine them to the GS palette?
I've seen that it's actually surprisingly difficult to make a good idle animation, especially if the character has a cape or robe. And as for attack animations, you have to always make sure to account for every limb. If you forget to animate the left arm simply because they aren't attacking with it, it's not gonna look properly dynamic, and you'll basically have yourself some derpmation. (derp + animation = derpmation) Head positioning is surprisingly important as well in attempting to make attack animations.
Well duh.
...ok, perhaps "very easy" wasn't the best way to put it. But assuming you know the basics of animation, animating the character after you have already rigged it isn't as much work as the rest of the process.
Only reason I'm saying all this is because I've seen a good few Brawl animations with all these problems. And in idle animations and victory poses it's been a recurring problem for characters' feet to be sliding when they bend their knees or move their upper leg.
Except we're just chaining together snapshots, so with a bit of fudging, that's not an issue.
If you rig the legs with inverse kinematics it solves that issue too.
QuoteAtrius: are the sprites you did simply resized renders, or have you been doing some post editing? Also, what method did you use to confine them to the GS palette?
Actually that's the only editing I do. I render them at 32x32 then use photoshop just to set the palette to indexed mode with a file containing GS's sprite palette.
Cool, so theoretically you could do that with just any character? Do you keep the model on hand afterwards? I'd love to see Kari's base model...
Quote from: Atrius on 28, October, 2011, 11:29:23 PM
QuoteAtrius: are the sprites you did simply resized renders, or have you been doing some post editing? Also, what method did you use to confine them to the GS palette?
Actually that's the only editing I do. I render them at 32x32 then use photoshop just to set the palette to indexed mode with a file containing GS's sprite palette.
Oh, well I guess that's what I would've done as well. I wasn't sure if you had photoshop though... Anyway, I would be grateful if you could share the palette file so I don't have to make a new one.
I think my last post in this topic was made by me half asleep... Aside from that, I have done some golden sprite editing (this was about 3 years ago) and i was working on it with a friend. I had paint and a golden sun emulator that could take snap shots. with that we tried to find a a good human looking sprite for a short animation we were thinking about making. but battle sprites were to hard to mess with, and the field sprites were to small.
So one day I went into a battle and summoned all the summons. One closest to human and easiest to edit was the only one that can heal you... starts with a Col... something
First i deleted the back ground and then used the colors to make the body, when it was done it looked like a real golden sun style person (after about 10 hours of pixel art)
Then a few more hours I had moved it into a upright and forward facing position as a base for the animation. Problem id the more i moved it from the original position the more it didn't look like a professional sprite. In the end I gave up, my friend messed around with it for a few days and then he gave up. I still have the file on a flash drive somewhere, but i can't find it.
Now my question is: Has anyone else tried to animate summon sprites or others like that? And if so and tips or advice?
(also if i ever do find it I will post what we made.)
Quote from: Role on 29, October, 2011, 12:45:25 AM
Cool, so theoretically you could do that with just any character? Do you keep the model on hand afterwards? I'd love to see Kari's base model...
I still have Kari's model, but I haven't reinstalled Maya on my computer since the old one died. I do have a couple of higher-res renders that I did of it though.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/AtriusV/sprites/Kari_HiRes1.png) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/AtriusV/sprites/Kari_HiRes2.png)
Must be somewhat older since she's in a pose similar to Jenna's, and I seem to recall making the eyes quite a bit darker.
Quote from: MiseryAnyway, I would be grateful if you could share the palette file so I don't have to make a new one.
I probably still have it around somewhere... I'll post it when I can find it.
Aye, her pose is different, but it's nice to see where this stuff came from. It's like watching a documentary on how they do things. ^-^
ok here is the full process of what i have done to my sprite over last 2 months. the last one is hopefully finished-ish... :/ meh. let me know what u think. i havent had time to mess with blender yet but im about to start. :)
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3013/myspritegscomparisonfin.png) :Felix: :Isaac:
The problem I see with that is that it's a bit too dark. Contrast him with Felix instead of Isaac. Felix wears the darkest clothing of any of the GS characters, and yet it much brighter than your sprite... Keep that in mind when making the sprites. Golden Sun is a bright, warm world, even if it deals with some dark themes at times.
hmm now that I look closely at that picture, its wrong. it must have screwed up the colors when I uploaded it. look at the difference in the two isaacs. my sprire was brighter... ill try to fix that. but it does need to be brightened some. anyway, thanx for the suggestion. :)
I actually think the problem is the viewing angle - the Golden Sun sprites are much more of a bird's eye view.
I agree with Role as well - your colour choice is also rather dark - it doesn't allow for much shading.
You should compare them with the character with the closest color scheme. Don't use Isaac in your comparison, use Felix. It should help you get a better feel for it.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i382/dwkjohn/brigjtersprite.png) :Felix:
well. I still need to work on the birds eye angle but I tried to make it brighter. that first one I posted was really dark. I guess it uploaded weird but I think this one is fixed. I'm still gonna work on it though. thanx for the help guys. :)
oh yeah... how do make the white part transparent? I forgot.
The wonders of GIMP. You just right click on your layer, choose "add alpha layer" or channel or whatever its called, then just use the select tool to select the white and cut it out. Since its a sprite it's a lot easier to get a nice, clean cut.
There's plenty of programs that can do that - the only one I know of that can't is MSPaint, and lolMSPaint.
yes. Paint. which just so happens to be the program I use. haha. it sucks at times but on basic stuff it gets the job done. for me at least.
Paint.NET and Gimp are free to use. You should check them out.
I do about 30% of my work in gimp. the rest is in paintive heard alot about paint.net. what is the interface like? is it similr to gimp?