Golden Sun Hacking Community

So what's the deal with those beast people?  Is there some origin story involving space ships, or some curse?

As I'm working on my GS proof-of-concept, I'm playing around with changing the height or distance player-tokens can jump--enhanced physical abilities which may correspond to that beast mode Sweta can go into.  So is that beast-out thing Sweta does a natural beast ability, or could it be linked to psi-energy? (or could psi-energy be used to recreate the natural beast-effect?)

Are adepts just as common among the beast population as among the rest of the peoples in GS?

Sweet! Genuine thanks.  Though now I'm curious.  If I go back to my copy of Dark Dawn, can I redo the final boss fight and get all the ending cinematic and stuff? I'd like to see exactly what references are made to beast people becoming light adepts.

There's no rhyme or reason for how the GS event effects people, is there?

Actually something that you can consider is that Beast mens are not part of the original Golden Sun and the appeared for no reason at all in Dark Dawn, despite that Sveta is the best character of Dark Dawn anyway even being out of place.

But-- GS2:TLA had wolves in Garoh. I think it was something about looking directly at the full moon that caused them to turn into wolves temporarily. (I forget if it mattered whether they looked at it or not.) However, do note that I don't know what Dark Dawn does as far as beast men go. (That being, I didn't go through the entire game of GS3, I've only ever sampled it, that's all.)

So yeah, with Garoh, I'd say it might have been a curse... but with GS3's beastmen, I have no idea.

IS there even a moon in GS?  Or is that moon actually something else?

edit: The link Wolf posted to claims that the beastmen evolved from animals, rather than from humans, after the Golden Sun event.  So clearly the light energy has the ability to create life, or serve as a catalyst for it.

Yes, there is a moon in Weyard, you can see the reflect of the moon in the water once in TLA.

Eh? From what I remember, some come from animals and some come from humans. Only the humans were affected by the sol tower at the end

I'd love to continue the discussion of what exactly the moon is in the "night vs. day in GS" thread.

Quote from: Knight of Purgatory on 11, January, 2014, 08:23:14 PM
Eh? From what I remember, some come from animals and some come from humans. Only the humans were affected by the sol tower at the end

Is there a game-script out there?

(http://goldensunwiki.net/images/1/17/Anemos_moon.png)<That's the reflection of the full moon in Garoh.

@Game-script: Yes. Check Gamefaqs. GS1 and GS2.

woah, that's a huge moon, but it does sure look like just an ordinary moon.

Do note that the moon may look normal, but probably has Anemos situated on the other unseeable side.
http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Anemos (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Anemos)

Oh cool. Thanks. Anemos + Air's Rock = Jupiter Power! Enough to cause werewolves, anyway.

An image Robert Joe posted about summon animations:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img22/8396/ayxp.png)
So we can confirm the moon in THIS image is Anemos? Rather than it being just a moon with Anemos not appearing in this animation?

I dont think that the moon being Anemia makes Ayn sense. It is crear that Anemos is smaller, it hace the size of an Island. And it seems that the moon is something ole, arterial all you can find representations of it in some parts. But I dont know.

Smaller? Maybe. How do you know for sure? That's a pretty large crater there, compared to the size of every town ever visited in Golden Sun. How do we know if the city grew any at all while it was in the sky? (It was full of alchemy power, wasn't it?) It wouldn't be intelligent to just have a small city in the sky, would it? (Not sure.)

What if the town landed on the real moon and the entire moon became Anemos?

I am not sure if the animation even makes a perfect representation of the sizes. (If it helps, Felix does look somewhat like a giant on the world map.)

Quote from: Teawater on 18, January, 2014, 01:05:02 AM
Oh cool. Thanks. Anemos + Air's Rock = Jupiter Power! Enough to cause werewolves, anyway.

An image Robert Joe posted about summon animations:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img22/8396/ayxp.png)
So we can confirm the moon in THIS image is Anemos? Rather than it being just a moon with Anemos not appearing in this animation?

Well, the moon might be Anemos, but I rather believe that there is just a big city up that moon.
But yeah we can confirm that.

Also, is that a definitive map?
Otherwise, I'd like to know if there is maybe a second moon.

So how do we know how big the moon is?

Or how far away it is?

It seems to me like it could very well be a massive disk of land the size of that crater.

I got nothing to add that hasn't been said, but I did spend some time reading the wiki, and it seems to fit GS's style to take some of these myths literally.  So I'd mostly just take the legends at their word.

If we use the animation of summons and the reflect of Garoh as a reliable fount of source of information. We can determinate that the distance between Weyard and the Weyard moon is much longer than the distance between the Earth and the Moon. We can also conclude that the Weyard Moon is bigger than the Earth Moon, and also clearly bigger than the anemos hole.

When looking at this: http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=124 (I know, a real life source.)

Don't always assume the moon's distance from the earth is always the same. That, and the animation might have nothing to do with present day?

Quote from: Raetah on 22, January, 2014, 04:36:59 AM
If we use the animation of summons and the reflect of Garoh as a reliable fount of source of information. We can determinate that the distance between Weyard and the Weyard moon is much longer than the distance between the Earth and the Moon. We can also conclude that the Weyard Moon is bigger than the Earth Moon, and also clearly bigger than the anemos hole.

I don't quite follow.  Which summons are you looking at?

The one first posted by Robert Joe, and then later posted by me in this topic earlier.

For those who didn't see it, here's a CLOSE UP!

Actually we cannot deduce the moon's size by looking at the reflection in the water.
1. Because what Teawater said: The orbit of that moon doesn't have to be a perfect circle.
    It could be a very thin elipse. So we don't know at which point of the orbital cycle the moon is.
2. Sometimes in real life the sun or the moon seem very close to the earth. (listed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion))

By the way can we confirm there is currently only one moon orbiting around the planet?

At least from Dark Dawn, I think it's the Meteor summon that supports the suspicion that Weyard is a flat plateau on top of a larger, rounder planet.  So I'm not in favor of the 'thin ellipse' point of view.

Personally, it seems that the elevation of that moon is likely similar to the other bodies of sky-land that we see in Dark Dawn, and that it is much closer than our own actual moon on earth.  Therefore it could be smaller than our moon, and still appear larger.

However, the image of its reflection in the water probably is not to scale -- Remember that nothing in that view is to scale. I.e. Djinn aren't the size of large dogs, or whatever.

The only things I think we can really trust in games with symbolic visuals is the text and game script.  But even the script doesn't tell us for sure what the moon is.  So the next thing we can do is go along with the flow of the story, and read in between the lines of what it's inferring.  And then I suppose we're in the realm of personal judgment.

But while the game doesn't give hard evidence about what is, it most certainly doesn't provide too much evidence about what isn't, either.  So I think a lot of the "the evidence says otherwise" counter arguments don't really hold up.

Nope, can't always trust the script 100%. Why? Because for one, there can be mis-translations. Recall that time Felix talked at Trial Roads? Yeah...

And I agree with scaling issues.

Doubt Thunder would recall that, let alone know about the translation if he had even played TLA. Felix originally said "?", which gets translated to "Why?" in the english version. The only time he says any word in the whole game.

But anyway, I can bet you all even the game designers have no idea what the real answers to these questions are, as they likely haven't even though about it (not to devalue your discussion or anything).

Yeah, but it was under a false assumption that people would have already known.

I'm thinking the same thing. Does anyone ever know all the details of the story they are telling? Probably not, but they might know more of it than other people do? So every story told can never be as 'perfect' as the world in which we live in. (But I'm sure there are many mysteries even about our own world.)

(By 'perfect' I was refering to the fact that most things (Science) generally make sense... and even then, we can only ever know a speck of all knowledge...)

I agree no one really knows the answers, and that's because "facts" in this case are subservient to the "legend," or the sense of aw and mystery that the games want to convey-- I assume the creators wanted to keep people guessing and wondering.  And this is why I really want to know what people are wondering, rather than what they think about the validity of the "evidence." ... I've already accepted that possibility that GS doesn't have a strong or consistent lore.

Bump on this conversation, given the renewed interested in Anemos, but also in Dark Energy, given that 'losing control or sanity' seems to be a dark energy effect, as suggested by the effect on Sveta's  brother in Dark Dawn.  I'm of course talking about Garoh, rather than beastmen, here. (where people became insane and more bestial)

Are beast men associated with light energy, whereas the werewolves are clearly under a dark energy effect?  As a reminder, the end zone of Dark Dawn was built by beast folk using Umbral gear, and there are plenty of reminders in the series that the golden sun event evolved beast folk, and that the light phenomenon at the end evolved them further into a golden form.  This is why I'm assuming the two (light energy and the golden sun event) to be similar and related, until I do further research.

But on the surface of it, both bestial examples seem to present a nice dichotomy between light and dark.

Okay, I'm lost... why are we using a Solar System model when Weyard's flat nature and those long falls we take in the games very clearly demonstrate that gravity does not work the same way in the GS universe and thus follows a different set of laws of physics?  You know, a set that allows for things like psynergy/magic? 

Quote from: Rolina on 29, April, 2014, 07:28:29 PM
Okay, I'm lost... why are we using a Solar System model when Weyard's flat nature and those long falls we take in the games very clearly demonstrate that gravity does not work the same way in the GS universe and thus follows a different set of laws of physics?  You know, a set that allows for things like psynergy/magic? 

I don't think it's a model of the solar system, but an estimate of *where* summons seem to come from when depicted through cut scene animations in the game (That's my guess, I didn't look too closely at the image, and I don't know what argument it was promoting either).  As you know, the summons videos often depict extraterrestrial bodies approaching a circular planet, suggesting that the plateau (or floating island) of Weyard is on a normal planet, even if suspended by unnatural or magical means.

That said, I don't know how it contributes to the discussion... I suppose it can be used to see if certain psi energy types are associated with certain distances from Weyard.