Golden Sun Hacking Community

And I choose...... Water Mage! you saw it coming, I KNOW you did ^-^

EDIT: I got rid of the Mia invasion, it was only something I did for lulz.

Wind Warrior....

Water warrior. I'd love to be able to slash a sword and have ice come out...

Quote from: whizkidhvq on 05, June, 2010, 04:39:24 PM
Water warrior. I'd love to be able to slash a sword and have ice come out...

Am I right in thinking that your favorite weapon in GS1 is the Arctic Blade then?

Nah, I like the Muramasa the best. It would be awesome though if there was a sword that launched a slash of ice when it unleashed. I didn't really like the Arctic Blade though...it was kind of lame.

Sorry for off topic.... but it would be cool iof there was like some sort of elemental equip able weapons that gave out different unleashes depending on the amount of djinn you have in summon mode or standby mode etc

What can you expect from a weapon that you get in Fuchin Temple? It is only useful until you get to Kalay.

@Maxi: Nice! ^-^ That WOULD be cool, but would the game be able to support such a weapon with out glitching out?

Humph, I'd be a boss. Bosses usually have the coolest unique moves and are generally more powerful than any single character. I mean, 1v1, most any boss would beat a character at the same level (if they played smart, and I would.).

I dunno. It would be cool to be a Wind Warrior or Earth Mage.

Wind warriors could do all sorts of crazy stunts, like using wind to propel themselves towards enemies, or pull enemies into them.

*Starts charging up an uber attack*

*pulls enemy towards me*

*unleashes epic uber attack*

Wind is by far the most practical element. To control the wind means being able to create forces that act on the air around us. Taken to its logical conclusion, being able to control the wind would result in being able to create arbitrarily powerful forces that act over an arbitrary area. The latter part is important. "An arbitrary area" doesn't just mean "anywhere." It also implies being able to conjure winds that cover whole landscapes or those with the delicate precision of a needle. Complete control over the air currents would yield the power to practically create shields able of deflecting anything before it ever touches you, all without ever touching anything in the surroundings, by very carefully allocating forces. Since these forces are being created at arbitrary locations and of arbitrary strength, you would be able to move essentially any object at will, and again, without interfering with the surroundings. By that same token, you could effectively "fly" with the proper accessories for catching the wind. Yes, that's right. We can fly.

And this isn't even considering all the extra stuff wind gets in GS =p

To be fair, taken to their logical conclusions, all the elements would be very powerful and practical in their own right. Well, except maybe fire. Powerful? Yes. Practical? Not at all.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/acidadept/RPstuff/role.jpg)

I chose Water Mage. I was going to choose Wind for the same reasons that Leaf stated (in fact, some of my neatest daydreams have been based on that, and I was always the Wind based Mage), but Water has many practical uses as well. Considering the fact that Mercury gains Ice as well (which is frozen water, as everyone here knows), then I could also have durable shields to protect me from several other things (then again, ice/water barrier, extreme heat/fire barrier, and earth/plant barrier). I wouldn't be able to practically control the things around me though, but with the help of a Wind user, we would be able to do almost anything (especially with electricity and water).

Have a nice day.

I like the way no one's chosen earth or fire =p

Everyone here just wants to be either rachel or jin obv

I don't really like heat, which is why I did not choose Fire. As for Earth... Being able to control plants would be neat, but unless I can have super-fertilizer or something, I doubt I would be able to make the plants grow very quickly. As for dirt/rocks, they would not be too practical in a city (and if there are monsters after me, I can just flood the whole area (while I swim on top)). If monsters come after me with the ability to swim, then I would freeze them. With enough Mercury people, we would be able to try to fix the warming global temperatures as well, not to mention the ability to regulate the Arctic and Antarctic regions.

Have a nice day.

I believe the implication of complete control over earth is the ability to make anything grow instantaneously.

And... well, if I were to order the elements strictly by combat potential (rather than general utility), it would probably be something like...

Wind (assassin)
Water/Fire
Wind (open combat)
Earth

Wind makes the most efficient assassin of any of the elements. Take any small object. Any object at all. Now hurl it toward someone at arbitrarily high speeds from an arbitrary angle. Yeah... murder someone almost undetectably and possibly frame someone else in the process? I think so. However, in an actual combat situation with other adepts, wind falls slightly short.

Water and fire are almost identical in power, but water comes up just slightly better, I think. Why is water on top? Simple. What predominantly makes up the human body? Yes, that's right. Water. Complete manipulation of water means you could kill someone by either making their body explode or alternatively by freezing them from within. The latter, of course, would be the assassin's choice. Much less messy than making someone explode.

Fire is nearly tied with water in combat, but since it makes for a messier assassin, it gets ranked lower. Complete control of fire means you could rather effortlessly incinerate a person just by looking at them, which is not something even another adept could deal with. Furthermore, if complete control over fire implies complete manipulation of heat, you could alternatively freeze a person to death by draining their body heat into the surroundings.

Wind would have trouble dealing with a fire or water adept in combat, since unlike them, it lacks any instant kill properties. A wind adept would need to strike quickly using whatever resources are at their immediate disposal, while hoping the fire or water adept doesn't kill him or her first.

In combat, earth is decent, but as an assassin, earth is just... bad. What is it gonna do? Create spires out of the ground to pierce their victims? That's all good and dandy, but it's very messy and the damage left over make it clear something weird happened here. It's also more limited in the locations it could perform the assassinations. In combat, it would use similar tactics, but here messy doesn't matter. Fire and water both naturally beat it due to their auto-kill properties, and between having to deal with flight and the wind shield as well as arbitrarily powerful blasts, wind beats earth in direct combat.

If we're excluding auto-kills, then the combat tiers would be more like...

Wind
Earth
Water (creation power)
Fire
Water (no creation power)

Here, fire is horrible. No way to shield against anything but water, while each of the other elements have some way to shield fire (wind blows it away, water douses it, and earth creates a physical barrier). Water with only the ability to manipulate water without the ability to spawn it would be even worse than fire, though. I think fire might have a slightly advantageous matchup against water, since it can essentially negate water's offense, even though water does the same in return, it would be easier for fire to eat through water's projectiles. Against wind or earth, though, it's pretty much a curbstomp battle.

Above that, the remaining three elements are fairly close, actually. Water probably creates the weakest barriers of any of the three, but ice can make for a powerful piercing projectile, as well as very potent traps, potentially snaring an opponent in ice. Earth has its own traps, of course, and creates just as dangerous spires, but probably better barriers. Wind... do I need to explain this? Wind has the wind shield, which more or less equates to invincibility. Even if wind's offense depends more on using the surroundings (and the opponent's projectiles, while you're at it), what are you gonna do against a perfect defense? Physical barriers (either made of ice or earthen material) can be broken down, but what are you gonna do when your offense is just deflected?

Naturally, I'm biased, so if you believe I misrepresented an element, let's hear your line of reasoning =p

Um...this is what type of GS character you would be, right? Then why are we discussing the practical uses of each element? Wouldn't that be in a "What element would you be?" topic?

For Earth's quick-kill... What if I just make a sinkhole? Even if I just make a huge hole in the ground, and then whatever is on top will fall through.

And Whizkid has a point. Of course, the conversation of elements would tie in with adepts, because the adepts could be able to use these elements in these ways.

Have a nice day.

I'm not sure if it's an instakill, but the wind adept could create a vacuum, which neutralizes fire in the process. Also, they could create blades that could cut through any object/shield the other person would have. All they would have to do is organize the molecules into a singular edge one molecule wide, which breaks molecular bonds.

@leaf: Ah, but what if your opponent had eaten a watermelon recently?

Using earth power, you could kill the guy by instantly growing the watermelon plant while its seed is in his stomach. Although, this would also be messy.

Or, alternatively, provided he had other recent injuries (like having tripped, and gotten all sorts of dirt inside his leg in the process), you could manipulate said bits of dirt while they are in his body and cause him to bleed internally, killing him if you pierce a lung or the heart.

But, Adepts don't have complete control over the element they work with. They have control limited by the amount of Psynergy available to them, and by their ability to use said psynergy, which is to say, how fast they can manipulate it. As such, a Wind Adept probably could not create enough force behind sufficiently small objects to deliver an instant kill, that is, his or her ability to move an object with air is limited by the amount of air they can have pushing on the object in the same direction and by the amount of force they can put behind a single air molecule, making it harder to throw smaller objects.

Not to mention the fact that an Earth Adept can also send any object of sufficiently small size, provided said object is located on the ground, flying in any direction that is at least partially upwards, by raising the earth underneath it at sufficiently high velocity, in the correct "direction", which is to say, moving one side of the earth under the object faster than the other section, creating a sort of catapult. But, this ability is also limited by the rate at which the Adept can manipulate their pool of Psynergy.

I believe control over fire implies the ability to create heat, and send created heat moving in any direction. I imagine a Fire Adept could also redistribute heat, or even remove it, though this would probably take more Psynergy, and thus be slower and more draining to the Adept, than creating heat.



I was considering choosing Earth, since Earth also seems to imply Darkness in GS. And of course, though Darkness usually isn't terribly practical, even in combat, it still looks cool.

But I decided I liked Wind/Electricity better.

Oh, earth does have an instant kill. Your body always contains some minerals within it, and since controlling earth also means controlling these minerals, you could wreak all sorts of havoc with their bodies. For the watermelon seed thing though...that would waste energy, really.

I know the watermelon seed thing would be a waste of energy, and highly impractical, but it would be funny!

A sinkhole... would be about as useful as spires, which are pretty close to an instant kill, considering they would pierce through the body. Difference is, they can both be defended against. Water and wind both have a version of flying, which means they can get away from the ground and put up their barriers. I didn't mention water's version of flying, but essentially, since they have complete control over water, that means they can constantly reform ice beneath them, preventing them from falling, even though ice is continually dropping to the ground. Poor fire gets killed, though. Well, technically, I guess fire could melt the spires before they ever connect.

And if by "vacuum," you mean sucking the air right out of their lungs... yeah, I guess that would count as an instant kill. I hadn't even thought about that, actually. Making someone's lungs implode... not a pretty thought. Then again, neither are any of the other instant kills. In hindsight, it's kind of ironic that earth gets the instant kill psynergy in GS.

As for these traits of the elements not existing in GS... well, of course. GS is a game, and a turn-based one at that, so they can't possibly put in everything you could possibly do with a power there. If similar powers existed irl, though, this is what control over those powers would yield when taken to their logical conclusion.

---

@Jamie: Now I like what I'm hearing. Technically, if we're dealing with the ability to create, earth's instant kill would simply be creating a growth of some sort within the opposition's body, regardless of if they've eaten any seeds. In that case, every element does have an instant kill.

As for the limitation of how much psynergy one has available to them, I believe the assumption here is that we're taking the elements at the height of their power. Naturally, if you had a novice adept of any element facing a master adept of any element, the master adept would win.

Quotehis or her ability to move an object with air is limited by the amount of air they can have pushing on the object in the same direction, making it harder to throw smaller objects.

Not... exactly... It depends on the force of the wind, not how much there is. Considering how even some of the lower level psynergy in GS involves blowing powerful gusts, it isn't a far stretch as to say that one with complete control over the wind would be able to create arbitrarily strong forces.

Your comment about earth also being able to do a similar thing is true. It would be able to do it nearly as well, but there would still be residual damage left over, and between that and the angle of fire, it would be near impossible to frame someone for it.

So... in summary: everyone has an instant kill. Adept combat between master assassins would be very boring!

I agree... it would be boring. Now, would anyone care to enlighten me how control over earth grants you the use of Ragnarok?

1. Make a giant sword floating in the air out of stone
2. Hurl said giant stone sword at opponent
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

Ah! Now it all makes sense... Since earth grants you power over minerals, you could craft it out of trace metals and such...

I could just create rapidly growing trees and vines to lift me up, and then have thorns so nobody else can clime up. As for the sinkhole... True, but what if I quickly make soil and rocks start to fill up the sinkhole with them inside? It would probably take them a few seconds to react to falling anyway, I could fill them in before they have enough time to fly out (especially if one of the boulders knock them out just as they start falling). To hide the evidence, I would make several plants grow on top.

Of course, I did choose Water Mage, since I also thought of being able to separate the water in an ocean, so one could go exploring at the bottom while separating the water for an air pocket/tube (or for the shark finning boats, making them sink into whirlpools!). Air adepts could probably do that too, but I would also be able to reduce the pressure of the area near me, since the deeper you go in the water, the more pressure there is. With a Wind adept, I could also create a hurricade (but without, I would be able to have flooding). I suppose I would also be able to control rainfall as well.

Have a nice day.

Edit: Of course, I would be able to create diamonds as an Earth user as well, and I could become the richest person in the world.

 :JupiterDjinni:

I would be a wind mage, because all the other groups are for pansies are overrated. And if you're a wind mage, you can shoot lighting at people. Think about it. Not only would you probably kill them, if they didn't die you would paralyze them for life. Isn't that in of itself satisfying? Forget the sword of the Wind Warriors - you don't need them with the power of electricity.

Wind Mages can rip apart entire cities with the massive vortexes they call upon.  They are widespread area destruction mages.
Lightning Mages call down immense energy to damage a very small area - but in a very devastating way.  If it survives, the damage may be worse than simple paralysis, after all.  They are mages that specialize in focused destruction.
Jupiter Mages balance both widespread and area destriction.  They may not be able to damage as wide of an area as a wind specialist, nor deal the devastating focused power to a single target, but they can not only do both, they can combine the two to great effect.

What do you other elements and builds get?

Well, I would never underestimate the power of water. In fact, flooding an entire city like Toronto or New York, and then freezing it with ice. Not sure about builds though, but would it really matter what your body type is as long as you are a powerful mage? Strong enough water currents would also be able to sweep buildings away from the base up. Also, on a hot summer day, I can make myself a glass of water (the glass is ice, and then I just fill it up). I can even throw away the remains without harming the environment. Not everything has to be linked to destruction, after all.

Have a nice day.

Well, as a water warrior I'd be able to make a blade anywhere I want, freeze the air around my foe, freeze their blood, forcefully remove the water from their bodies, summon a tsunami, drown someone with a cup of water etc...

Venus is a rather boring element in terms of Mages, but Venus Warriors can do all sorts of crazy stuff.

How about, instead of simply dropping your massive Ragnarok sword on the enemy, you wield it and smash your enemy to shreds in Great Aether-like awesome style?

Venus Adepts could also forge themselves whatever weapon they wanted simply with their control of minerals and metals.

@Venus Mages:  You're kinda slow to pick up on these things, huh Jamie? 

Stone Mages can rip the earth asunder, causing widespread devastation.
Plant Mages rule over not only plants, but poisons as well.  They can entangle and poison a foe, or cause the thorns from the plants to rip apart the flesh of their targets - Plant Mages can be QUITE the sadists... Isn't that right, Yuuka?
Venus Mages use both plants and stones, often in various combinations.  While they don't specialize, they make up for it through both versatility and creativity - the point behind knowing both is to combine them, after all.

To say Venus Mages have no potential, you give the element no justice, Jamie.  Sure, they're nothing compared to we Jupiter mages, but still...

Basically, for the possible creativity for each element...

Jupiter (1)
Mercury (2)
Venus (2)
Mars (4)

Mars is the lowest, because if you only control fire or temperature, this does not include gas or chemicals (since gases would be wind, and chemicals would be combinations water and earth, so at most the fire can be controlled), does not include meteors (since that would be more like an Earth power, but just casting it and forcing it into Earth's gravitational pull), and would not likely include light, since electricity can do that as well (though fire can make it lighter). Venus and Mercury are actually tied, since new metals and minerals can be created with Earth, new species of plants, better fertilizer, now rock formations (even creating brand new islands should theoretically be possible). Water can shape land, submerge it, create ice, allow plants to thrive where they would normally die, and best of all, it would be able to enlarge the Arctic and Antarctic regions, restore glaciers, prevent/stop forest fires, and even lower water levels (oh, and is there a volcano erupting? Water would be able to help stop it). Most of Wind's advantages have either been stated, or are obvious. However, it can also act as an easy mail delivering technique! It would be easier to breathe underwater with it too, since you could just create an air pocket (a water/earth user might help for making platforms and lowering the pressure of being too deep underwater though, so your body does not become pressurized mush).

Have a nice day.


Edit: Not all of us Venus adepts are slow to pick up on it. Of course, I would like to be a Mercury mage as well.

@Role: I didn't say Venus was a "bad" element, I just said that Venus elemental mages don't get very spectacular looking attacks.

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 08, June, 2010, 01:34:21 AM
@Role: I didn't say Venus was a "bad" element, I just said that Venus elemental mages don't get very spectacular looking attacks.

And what basis do you have to go on for that?

@Sala:  I posted this earlier in GameFAQs - it's technically accurate.  Don't forget that Mars is more than fire and heat!

Venus is ground, stone, and plants. (ex: Quake, Spire, Growth)
Mars is flame, heat, and explosive energies. (ex: Fire, Beam, Nova)
Jupiter is wind, lightning, and celestial energies. (ex: Whirlwind, Bolt, Astral Blast)
Mercury is water, ice, and various water vapors. (ex: Douse, Frost, Fog djinni)

Gotta give each element credit where credit's due, y'know?

The coolest attack a Venus mage gets is either Grand Gaia or Nettle, and those are really kind of lame looking.

The coolest attack a Venus fighter gets is Odyssey, which automatically wins over Grand Gaia or Nettle. I mean, it's Odyssey!

Different strokes for different folks.  While I agree that Venus' attacks aren't that spectacular looking, I beg to differ that Odyssey is the best.

I prefer Grand Gaia.

And if Quake really looks bad (or even Quake Sphere), I present Douse.


Hence, opinions. ;)

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 08, June, 2010, 03:39:45 PM
The coolest attack a Venus fighter gets is Odyssey, which automatically wins over Grand Gaia or Nettle. I mean, it's Odyssey!

A big sword is better than getting beaten the crap out of by lightning?

@Charon: Lightning? where did I mention lightning? This is VENUS Adepts we're talking about here! Besides, I see no lightning in Grand Gaia or Nettle, or even Odyssey.

@TNS: Douse does look bad, you're right. So does Frost.

But Cool is well, um... cool!

Hail Prism looks ok as well.



Mars has by far the most awesome Mage psynergies. I mean, Searing Beam, anyone? Dire Inferno? Dragon Fume? Rising Dragon? Epicenter?

earth warrior~

Did you pick it for the fancy looking attacks? I'm sure they spent more time making flashy moves for Isaac and Felix than they did on the rest of the game.

i didnt know wether or not to be a mage or a warrior. i didnt pick it for the flashy moves at all. i wanna manipulate plants and stuff~ then i could grow elegant plants that can't grow wherever i am usually. i also like swords and scythes, not staves or ankas or whatever, so i guess thats why i chose warrior ^^; i waould have an extremely huge garden of almost every plant i like~

Damn, I selected earth mage instead of earth warrior...
I simply love Odyssey and Annihilation!

 :Mercury:Water Mage... (the water rules the World!!!)

Quote from: Salanewt on 07, June, 2010, 09:42:36 PM
Basically, for the possible creativity for each element...

Jupiter (1)
Mercury (2)
Venus (2)
Mars (4)

Just my personal opinion...
since Mars adepts would have control over heat and heat is one of the most basic forms of energy(last time I checked...), would that not mean that, if the user were to master the Mars element, they would be able to control a basic form of energy and manipulate it to form any type of matter(since all mater is a form of energy) the user would desire? Or have I understood this wrong...

If Mars adepts could manipulate energy, they would also be able to take energy away from objects, therefore being able to stop things from having energy...? This would counter things like projectiles by taking their energy away, causing them to fall to the ground. <-  If what I said here turns out to be true, would they not be able to prevent wind or water adepts 'flying' by taking their energy away?
Wouldnt they also be able to create heat so great that it melts solid projectiles?

On the subject of quick and efficient, non trace leaving kills (right terminology?), would earth adepts be able to create a fissure in the ground that would cause the enemy to fall, then close the fissure? Or do this after a messy kill to cover up the evidence? And wouldent they be able to cause stalactites to fall on any flying enemies?

I'm not trying to prove people wrong, just trying to give them something to think about...

sorry if this offended anyone.

Quote from: leafgreen386 on 06, June, 2010, 11:02:05 PM
Fire is nearly tied with water in combat, but since it makes for a messier assassin, it gets ranked lower. Complete control of fire means you could rather effortlessly incinerate a person just by looking at them, which is not something even another adept could deal with.

Uh, just asking but, aren't you kind of contradicting yourself?
I'm not meaning to be rude...just interested in knowing what you would think when re-reading that sentence...sorry :sad:.

Yes, but incineration would leave ashes and blackened bones, which would make it rather obvious that a murder took place.

On top of that, shouldn't you make an introduction topic?

Oh, and if you want to add something when no-one else has posted, use the edit button.

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 29, October, 2010, 12:44:54 PM
Yes, but incineration would leave ashes and blackened bones, which would make it rather obvious that a murder took place.

If you incinerate something/someone to the extent that all matter concerning the actual object/person would no longer be present, i'm sure no evidence would remain(if you do it thoroughly enough) :Mars: :Mars: :Mars: :MarsSet:
Think of total molecular OBLITERATION :medal: :!: :!:

I so totally wish the Lucky Medal where available for signatures...

Quote from: Shinigami on 29, October, 2010, 11:35:35 AM

Just my personal opinion...
since Mars adepts would have control over heat and heat is one of the most basic forms of energy(last time I checked...), would that not mean that, if the user were to master the Mars element, they would be able to control a basic form of energy and manipulate it to form any type of matter(since all mater is a form of energy) the user would desire? Or have I understood this wrong...

If Mars adepts could manipulate energy, they would also be able to take energy away from objects, therefore being able to stop things from having energy...? This would counter things like projectiles by taking their energy away, causing them to fall to the ground. <-  If what I said here turns out to be true, would they not be able to prevent wind or water adepts 'flying' by taking their energy away?
Wouldnt they also be able to create heat so great that it melts solid projectiles?

...That's stretching it a bit. Besides that, even if it were possible to do, it would require massive amounts of energy, similar to if Jupiter adepts used Halt on an object to stop it. Although, it depends upon the projectile. And psynergy drain isn't a Mars ability, so that wouldn't work.

Quote

Quote from: leafgreen386 on 06, June, 2010, 11:02:05 PM
Fire is nearly tied with water in combat, but since it makes for a messier assassin, it gets ranked lower. Complete control of fire means you could rather effortlessly incinerate a person just by looking at them, which is not something even another adept could deal with.

Uh, just asking but, aren't you kind of contradicting yourself?
I'm not meaning to be rude...just interested in knowing what you would think when re-reading that sentence...sorry :sad:

I think Leaf is thinking about how it would also leave a blackened surrounding, similar to spontaneous combustion cases, whereas the other elements don't leave such traces.

Quote from: Whizkidhv on 29, October, 2010, 04:48:00 PM
I think Leaf is thinking about how it would also leave a blackened surrounding, similar to spontaneous combustion cases, whereas the other elements don't leave such traces.

Similar to previous points about channelling wind in certain areas very precisely, would a mars adept not be able to channel heat in a concentrated point like that(eg frying their brain, noone would know unless they actually dissected the person)?

WOW you guys anyone who does not read the first 2 pages would think you are discussing how to murder someone ....

Fire Mage for me ><

 :VenusStar: Earth Mage  :VenusStar:

Seems interesting to have a unique class like Himi has.
   :heart:
:VenusDjinni: