Golden Sun Hacking Community

Golden Sun Games => Golden Sun: Dark Dawn => Topic started by: Berthenk on 29, July, 2010, 07:43:48 AM

Title: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Berthenk on 29, July, 2010, 07:43:48 AM
Something interesting found on the interwebz:
http://ds.nintendolife.com/news/2010/07/first_impressions_golden_sun_dark_dawn (http://ds.nintendolife.com/news/2010/07/first_impressions_golden_sun_dark_dawn)
It's going to be as awesome as I thought it would!
Also, sorry if this has already been posted, or if it's in the wrong section.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Charon on 25, August, 2010, 02:35:06 PM
If the touch controls seem to be so wonky, I'm getting a bit worried. If the D-pad supplies a reliable backup, though, I won't have any problems.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Aile~♥ on 25, August, 2010, 04:43:49 PM
Well, for Fireball you can just press A (I think it was A anyway) to launch a fireball. So for things that call for being hit with multiple fireballs, just mash the button.

And for Move, you can probably just touch target the thing you want to move, then use the D-pad to move it.

The touch controls aren't really wonky from what I saw, it's just that you have to move the stylus a bit slower than you'd expect for the Fireball spell. People in the demo vids kept rushing the stylus forward as fast as they could, when you have to go kind of slow for it to work.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Salanewt on 25, August, 2010, 05:03:33 PM
To be honest, I would prefer using the d-pad for walking around. I hated it when the Zelda games required me to run around with the stylus (as well as attack, roll, etc.), as I would often jump off of ledges when I was not trying to. If I have to use the stylus for psynergy only (and maybe a few puzzles), I would not mind it as much... Providing that I can start it with a button click or two.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: leaf on 25, August, 2010, 10:18:09 PM
As long as the option is there (it should be from what we've heard), I'll be using the +pad and buttons to do everything. Just the kind of gamer I am.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Rolina on 25, August, 2010, 11:44:07 PM
Aye.  I only use the touchpad for a few games - like WEWY.  I personally prefer the d-pad, though.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Charon on 26, August, 2010, 12:15:54 PM
I would be shocked to discover if they didn't use the Dpad as a reliable back up simple because every other game I've ever played that's been like that has. I might use the stylus for casting psynergy though if it is easier.

But the stylus driven menu for the battle? Man, that makes it so much easier!
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Salanewt on 26, August, 2010, 01:28:12 PM
The battle menu is nice with the stylus, especially since it looks like they changed how psynergy selection works. As for the D-pad, I was very surprised when Zelda did not use it (although almost every other game that I have played has it for movement or backup).

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Charon on 26, August, 2010, 02:21:58 PM
Oh, really? Yeah I've played a lot of stylus driven-moving titles but never touched the LoZ titles. :/

I'm just really worried if the stylus-driven overworld will make it difficult to cast certain overworld psynergies.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Rolina on 27, August, 2010, 10:49:38 AM
They're horrible.  Everything you do is done with the stylus.  While this works for some games, like WEWY, it's VERY counter-intuitive for a game like LoZ.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Salanewt on 27, August, 2010, 11:14:45 AM
Yet Nintendo never recieved the memo after Phantom Hourglass, so the controls remain the same for Spirit Tracks. Of course, I doubt that Golden Sun will have this problem.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Rolina on 27, August, 2010, 12:11:23 PM
Now you see why I don't play the DS Zelda games.  The controls suck.  All they are are tech demos for what the touch screen is capable of... too bad it's more frustrating than fun.

Scribblenauts learned this.  The next game adds a DPad control scheme.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: thenightsshadow on 30, August, 2010, 10:27:28 PM
Actually, coming from a person that plays left-handed, I'm glad they nixed the whole D-Pad control system since I can't even use it.  Left hand on the stylus means that most games are left-handed unfriendly.

I guess my experience of both Spirit Tracks and Phantom Hourglass (both beaten within a week) is different than yours.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Salanewt on 30, August, 2010, 10:33:02 PM
Probably, although the time limit before beating them is relatively the same (which is why I dislike Toon Link games over the rest of the Zelda series). Personally, having a choice between D-pad and stylus is nice, like in the remake of Super Mario 64. I would love to play with the D-Pad, although psynergy with the stylus would be nice (to allow for more complex puzzles, as we will have to be careful of the direction from which we aim). By the way, I have a strange feeling like we are almost completely off topic.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Roareye on 01, September, 2010, 05:59:30 AM
I think that I will really miss those flat but flashy psyenergy effects from the GBA versions. I was worried that they wouldn't be able to replicate them in 3D. Still, the plotline seems fine enough.

And about the D-pad war here -> I've never used anything more than a D-pad to move in a DS game. Like in Pokemon Rangers, for example. I just don't feel it. Using the touch screen to move around isn't my thing.


PS: Haven't been here in a while, hmm. Gotta upload some battle savestates I made. [I think that's funnier than making a whole hack. And easier/faster. By the way, I hope that psyenergy/item names will be editable in the next version of the editor.]
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Rolina on 01, September, 2010, 09:51:18 AM
...But they were ALREADY in 3D, just flattened 3D.  The original GS games used loads of 3D.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Salanewt on 01, September, 2010, 10:06:51 AM
To be fair, most of the graphics mostly replicated it, but there may be some actual 3D in it if I remember correctly. It almost looked like 2.5D or something.

As for the flashes and the rings, they might make a comeback. We have only really seen demo videos and trailers so far, there are still things to change before it comes out. It is also rare to have a release date before Japan does, although they could easily have a release data determined which makes it available before North America.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Rolina on 01, September, 2010, 05:00:47 PM
No, seriously.  Part of the problems atrius is having in the editor have to do with the third axis on the maps.  The models are also 3D renders that have been flattened so as to be able to fit onto the GBA.  That's one of the reasons making a good custom battle sprite is going to be difficult, to....
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Salanewt on 01, September, 2010, 05:09:39 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot about that (although I thought that the sprites were actually 2D). Most of what I have been working with lately is in 2D, even though there is a z-axis in virtually every aspect of the games, and I forgot that Golden Sun sprites are actually 3D models. Making sprites might not be too hard, but getting them to work and look good when working is another thing. Of course, Dark Dawn seems to have stepped up their overworld polygons a bit (just look at their larger bodies, including actual hands and feet).

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Rolina on 01, September, 2010, 06:23:33 PM
Sprites were FLATTENED 3D, cut to limited directions in order to conserve space.  At least, the battle ones are, for sure.  Dunno about the overworld ones, but I'd not be surprised.  Luckily, we can fudge the overworld ones due to the lack of detail...

The battle sprites, though... Hoo boy, that'll be a doozy.  It's one thing to add a new weapon, it's another to create a totally new sprite.  Your experiments with 'Samantha' showed that much - even you should be aware that it seemed flat compared to the canons.  Your Link is really well done, though.  I can see him with a Blade, Sword, Hammer, and... What other melee weapons did he have?
Title: Re: First Impressions: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Post by: Salanewt on 01, September, 2010, 07:11:32 PM
Yeah, overworld sprites are easy to make compared to the battle ones. Same with battle weapons.

Samantha was very flat (while also showing the problems with making them as sprites), but she was my starter. Basically, something to allow me to create a Dummy body to fill in with more detail, and then to replicate arms (poorly) and legs. That could give me the feeling of making battle sprites, but it is quite time consuming. It also proved that it is virtually impossible to create a good Dummy body to fill in with detail, or else it will look too pixelated. In fact, this is also the same reason why I was talking about the "white clothes" with her.

Also, thanks for the compliment on Link!  We could give him a Cane/Rod, considering he has had a few now in his games (Cane of Somaria, Cane of Byrna, as well as the Fire and Ice Rods, one in Twilight Princess, another in Spirit Tracks, and the Rod of Seasons). There may or may not have been a cane in one of the first two Zelda games though.

I was also working on a small enemy sprite, but those are almost as hard (and the reason for the small size was for practice again, long after Samantha's failed attempt).

And from these three tests, only one has so far been successful (because my Python remains unfinished). It seems like Dark Dawn will not require that the polygons have frozen frames, so perhaps it will be possible to use polygons in The Lost Age (it would use more of the game's space, but it could be entertaining). Otherwise, the ability to replace the polygon frames with sprites.

Have a nice day.