Golden Sun Hacking Community

Just wondering how far people are at in the game. I'm just shortly after getting the boat.

I am near the end of Apollo Sanctum. Lol, Matthew said something for a change. It also explains the meaning behind their Japanese names, "Spade" and "Heart," was it?

I definitely need to see if I can get my Action Replay though, I want to see if there are any beta psynergies in here.

Have a nice day.

I just met Sveta ... well her shadow anyway XD .... And i like the insight psynergy .. it would make exams really easy XD

i had already made a topic but meh

today i found out two new facts

Mis's cousin is [spoiler]Alex[/spoiler]

Amitris Father is [spoiler]Alex[/spoiler]

Ooh, cool. I am not quite that far, but I am at the Chalis/Blados/Chaos Hound fight. I also have every Mars djinni, but I left several of the others behind. I found out their weaknesses.

[spoiler=Chalis]
Weak: Mercury
Resistant: Mars[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Blados]
Weak: Mars
Resistant: Mercury[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Chaos Hound]
Weak: Venus
Resistant: Jupiter[/spoiler]

I must say, I do like the idea of Dark Adepts though. I wonder if there are any Light Adepts?

Have a nice day.

Wait light and dark adepts? this is coooool >< ... i want a light adept in party  :Sweat:

What do I do with dream leaves besides revisiting that swamp dungeon, and Haures?

Also, the boss theme is amazing! Definitely one of my favorite RPG boss themes ever.

Yeah, but you should hear the final(?) boss theme. I am currently fighting it again.

Oh yeah, have you met Star Magician yet? His ship has a Clothos' Distaff, and he gives you Azul if you can kill him. Of course, you also have to be strong enough for the shadow part of Weyard.

Also, does this mean that I don't get to go to Bilibin? It is fine with me if it ensures another game, but...

Have a nice day.

Already at final boss? ... I just got Sveta in my party ... she is really good fighter .. but did anyone notice that Karis does more damage with magic based psynergy? even though they have the same elemental power ... I used Tornado with both of them .. Karis did around 120 while Sveta did 90 only >< i think they did something to increase casters magic power XD Oh yah i tried that on the same monster so resistance is the same

I noticed that Sveta seems to be a bit closer to Matthew, whereas Himi is closer to Rief, Karis closer to Amiti, and then that leaves Garet and Eoleo to be somewhat similar, though both different.

Also, I am now being seen off in Belinsk. So yes, I am past the final boss now. I tend to devour games when I get them, taking me only one or two days to beat them. This took me slightly longer than most games tend to, but it was still in the 2-3 day range. Such a wonderful game it is.

Now for my complete playthrough, where I go back to get all of the djinn, summons, and items that I missed in this playthrough.

Have a nice day.

Hehe what characters you have in your main team?
Also i think i have all the djinn that i can get, and Sveta left  :sad:

I just got got Amiti and back to China Kaochi. Gawd I'm so behind everyone else... and I think I forgot quite a few djinn. I know I missed Megaera...

I left at least two Mercury djinn back near Kolima/Belinsk region, one of which is the one in the port (where you first meet Briggs). I thought to myself "Oh, I will just come back here later." Too late to get him back, although I am going to start another file, which I can use to get absolutely everything.

As for a main team, I do not have one. I keep flipping them around whenever one character ends up getting a few levels higher than someone in the back team. I can name my lowest though, Tyrell at level 41. Even then, it will take nothing for him to level up if I send him to the top of Apollo Sanctum again. Those new soldiers give a whopping sum of experience (41k+ for each battle it seems). Tua Soldiers? If you train on them for a while, it would be quite easy to make it to level 50+ in a short period of time (I am guessing about 40-60 minutes, assuming that you are strong enough to kill them all). There is a Wise One statue near the entrance to Apollo Sanctum, so it would not be hard to go back and heal when you need to.

[spoiler=the Final Boss]
Weakness: Jupiter
Resistance: Venus[/spoiler]

Huh. Megaera is not too far behind actually, just to the west of the first town after Rief. As for me, I missed so many djinn and summons. I am going to start another playthrough in a few minutes, where I make sure that I get everything. I managed to find all of the Mars djinn though, the last one comes before actually reaching Apollo Sanctum.

Oh yeah, when the Eclipse Tower first rises, GO TO THE TOP! I swear, the Eclipse summon is really useful. I think that was the third(?) optional summon that I found.

Have a nice day.

y the way, does anybody know how to reach the real ending? All I managed to see was Matthew, Tyrell, and Karis returning to the cabin to find the biggest Psynergy Vortex ever. "The End?"

Summon locations

[spoiler]Zagan - west of Konpa Ruins, easy enough, use whirlwind

Magera, left of first dunegon upon getting rief

Flora - In Passaj Mountain Climb, you will need frost thingy, to get it, just go to the city via the quick lift thing then walk the mountain path back down.

Moloch - After you cross the sky thingy, in the snowy mountains before you enter the town and get Sveta, follow the path west and theres a cave

Ulysess - north of boarder town theres a cave with a train track puzzle, use fireball on the bomb to reveal the thingymajob

Haures - First get a dream leaf at Kolima then head to boarder town and stay at the inn, at night in dream land, go to the otehr side of town and you will see a cave With the summon

Eclipse - When escaping the luna tower, go to the top floor and read the glyph

Crystal Dragon - In the Opera house, when leaving Belinisk for the last time, even tho it tells you to go there, you can leave the town and miss it forever

Azul -  Kill Star Magician who is on deadbeards ship in the foggy area of the map, sail till you find.

Others im not sure as of now![/spoiler]

as of now, i have only missed one djinn and if i with the ship can return there i can get it.... its Brick in the town with the ice queen

Um... is there a way to get back to that cave?... because I'm a die hard completist and if I forgot Megaera I'd hate myself for quite a while.

Quote from: Charon the Ferryman on 02, December, 2010, 11:57:37 AM
Um... is there a way to get back to that cave?... because I'm a die hard completist and if I forgot Megaera I'd hate myself for quite a while.

No Charon, there is nooo way back, a flaw of DD im afriad, theres 3 points of no return in the game :(

if I cant get that "brick" djinn and its the only thing i miss, theres gonna be a brick being thrown through Camelot offices windows

But I thought you could go to certain areas, like the ones near Ayuthay? I recall there being a few beaches there. It seems impossible to go back to Belinsk without cheating, but along southern Angara...

Have a nice day.

Edit: By the way, why does Garet have that moustache? Acts like his father from the first game (almost none of his original personality left), and grows the caterpillar moustache.

Hey look kids, its Freddie Mercury!
"No, I'm Garet."

Quote from: MaxiPower on 02, December, 2010, 12:34:57 PM

Quote from: Charon the Ferryman on 02, December, 2010, 11:57:37 AM
Um... is there a way to get back to that cave?... because I'm a die hard completist and if I forgot Megaera I'd hate myself for quite a while.

No Charon, there is nooo way back, a flaw of DD im afriad, theres 3 points of no return in the game :(

Whaaaat? Then how the heck do you get back to New Vale?! Isn't that why I'm on this quest to kick some bird butt?

Yeah, but your quest gets interrupted by the bigger evil, and then you go back after the credits to find a huge...

Although I think you can get Megaera later on if you miss her, you can risk losing Zagan (like I did), as well as a few other summons.

Have a nice day.

[spoiler=hidden]I recently left Patcher's Place and am now in Goma Highlands Road[/spoiler]

I just got the game today so I'm not that far.

GAAAAAH

Any forgeables guide yet? A list of forgeable items and what you can get?

I am not actually sure, since I have only encountered one or two of them myself. I suppose I can list what I get in my next playthrough, if you want it that badly.

Have a nice day.

Yes, please. I'm surprised the Jap version is not documented though.

Anyways, what's in the chest ontop of Belinsk's castle? I reached the point of no return, but never got that chest. I hope it's not important!

Ha you have me a heads up without even trying, lol + 1 respect.

[spoiler]I just finished the part where BLaDOS/Spade and the Masked Man[spoiler= who the masked man is]A.K.A. Alex[/spoiler] force you to go to the south exit of the cave(forgot the name) [/spoiler]

Who likes the battle system so far? I think its pretty fun, but a little too easy all you need to do is mash the A button, unless you're fighting a boss, too bad you can't play on hard mode the first time through.

Edit: Crap, I missed a Djinn in western Angara, I'm going to have to restart my entire game :/

Three Points of No return are ( 2 of them are super no points of returns )

First [spoiler]Rief, once the cave collapse's theres no way back[/spoiler]

second [spoiler]when you take the sky trip to Northern Angara (it tells you here before you go that you may not get back).... however you get the ship later but still im not sure if any can be missed / towns closed[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Third, When you go to Belinsk after killing the mountain Roc and unleash the Luna thingy.... this cuts off all Northern Angara for you to see so get everything here

Also Note when you activate the Luna Beacon, Both Eclipse on top of the tower (jut follow the staircase and  a djinn in the town one of the houses.,on left side of town look for two beds and people sleeping in em[/spoiler]

Does the Masked Man make anyone else think of Mithos from Tales of Symphonia? I mean, just his talking animation, is all.

You know, you talk about that game so much... I think I will have to try it within the next week or so, since it sounds really fun.

I would not know, but I suppose I can try and find out soon. I might continue my second playthrough today as well, but I hate how Isaac and Freddie can't stop talking. In fact, I would have expected Garet's personality to be closer to what Isaac seems to demonstrate. I am already in the woods though.

Have a nice day.

After finally reaching border city and trying to help Eoleo, I entered the dream world and reached to where i fight the lizard to have the stupid emulator crash on me >< now i have to redo all of that since it didn't save ..... or i forget to save ><

:sad:
:Garet:

Finished Dark Dawn today... well, the storyline anyway, still got a few things to collect and see.
Overall the game's no Lost Age, but definitely an awesome addition to the series, with all that happened at the end I can't wait to see where Golden Sun 4 takes us!

Also, I know the whole Golden Sun event was huge and everything, but some town re-locations seem a little ridiculous... And since when was there so much stuff buried under Angara!?

I know, right? "Oh yes, this thing was built in the time of the ancients, and I have known about it for years. However, we just discovered it 30 years ago."
But yeah, the plot is fairly good. I disliked the idea of seeing so many skeletons in Champa, which is probably the only town that remained similar (other than Kolima of course). Tret and Laurel sprouted legs to be able to survive?

Also, does anyone think that the huge vortex near Mount Aleph is the Mourning Moon? When I first made it to the ending, I thought that there was something like an "actual" ending that would have to be unlocked.

It is true that they become a lesser concern in the plot, but it would have been nice to have a few more of them in some of the puzzles. I kind of liked having them up in the clouded area.

I think I know where Kalay is as well, but going there would be like trying to go to Bilibin or Imil. There is a desert area with rings of water near southern Angara, and...

Have a nice day.

Edit: Does anyone know where all of the "Sun Saga" books are located? I already know what happened in the first two games (obviously), but this is the closest that I can currently get to seeing Jenna, Ivan and co. Books 1 and 2 seem to be at the shops, and I just found 3 in a bookcase in Passaj.

One of the books is at the Lookout Cabin at the start of the game. It's on top of a bookshelf in the library at the back, when you're told by Karis to grab all your equipment.

Cool, thanks. I am past the first point of no return again though, this time with Zagan. He looks pretty cool, but I thought he was a minotaur in the last game? Demon with angel wings is a really nice combination, I must say. And then he leaves his throne to attack the enemies.

Also, don't you find it odd that Ayuthay's soldiers wear bras? I swear, the royalty wears little clothing, and their knights wear bras (or really short tank-tops). They seem like male soldiers too...

Have a nice day.

WOW the monsters in the foggy world is really strong compared to the normal ones ...
Also Eoleo JOINS the party !!!!!!!!

Matthew+Sveta ApolloShipping is sooo awesome!


But also, am I the only one reeeally disappointed with the finale of the game? It felt very anticlimactic compared to Mars lighthouse, and even Venus Lighthouse. They should have had you go to Tonfon again before going to Endless Wall. At least another cutscene to make you uneasy, like "It's now or never!"

I mean, consider the actual theme played on Endless Wall and the Apollo Trial Canyon or whatever it was called, which gives a sense of needing to rush. Yet you were able to just take your sweet old little time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBqlrauvPQU

Endless Wall should have been its own dungeon too, instead of the Canyon. I mean, the Canyon just really didn't stand out enough compared to the other environments. With such a theme, they should have also made some more creative use of the Arrow dodging later seen in Apollo Gate.

Speaking of which, this is THE final dungeon after such a generic canyon? That's it!? No random battles or anything? No tower you have to climb? Just a puzzle? Laaame.

Then you had the following theme when you finally got past the gate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qICvoUADBo

It totally has Mars lighthouse vibes in it. So why is it all you're doing is solving a simple puzzle (Followed by the final boss?). They should have had you do some giant dungeon utilizing Sveta's shield against the light.

Afterwords, Camelot blatantly trolls us with nothing accomplished in the ending besides stopping a disaster YOU caused 3/4 through the game. And we still don't know much about the Tauropang or whatever their names were.

"The end...?" :Trollface:

Then there's the fact Psynergy Vortexes were ignored for 7/8 of the game. And Gaia Falls took up even more of the world! yet they aren't even questioned?


Then there's the points of no returns. They would not be so bad if they didn't trick you into thinking you can go back. I mean, in Kaopo Temple, there were puddles of water implying you could use frost/cold snap! Yet, you could not return to it either!


Plus, no desert levels!!!!

Son, I am disappoint!

Is it good? It's excellent! Is it worth the 7 years wait? Methinks they have a bigger sequel in the works and this is just a :trollface: to create a stupid plot which makes amazing sense in the next game. Either way, I want a Dark Dawn 2!

Just beat the game, and it was awesome! I'm working on the bonus bosses right now. Btw, has anyone fought Ancient Demon yet?

Cool. I have not fought him, but he gives Apocalypse. Also, Star Magician and Dullahan are both in this game (or at least Star Magician, I have not experienced the Dullahan fight yet). Star Magician is a bit tougher, since it has access to six different types of balls now.

Also, there seems to be a Crush boulder in Harapa. Yes, it is possible to return to those towns. I don't think you can get Brick if you miss him though.

But in the temple with the puddles, Kraden/Rief/Nowell explain that they were able to skip ahead because of their water psynergy. The puddle near the top would bring them to the vine, which is what they used to climb down to where you first meet them. The first puddle was to allow them to skip the entire dungeon.

Have a nice day.

I see. That explains it. Anyway... I give up. Ancient Demon keeps possessing Matthew... who has the Sol Blade, the highest attack of my party, and who is the fastest character I have... >.<
Screw it, new game time! Also, did anyone else find it funny that from Matthew's few spoken lines, his last is a four letter censored word?

Ugh Ancient Demon loves possessing Sveta when she turns beastform, then she mauls my whole party to death...
Yet to fight Star Magician.

Disappointed I ended up missing 2 Djinn though.

Also MatthewxSveta ftw!  :happy:

I've just managed to get into Ayuthay or whatever the name was (where you meet Amitri).
Have I missed any djinn? I have 4 Venus, 3 Mars & Jupiter, but only 2 Mercury.
I also got Zagan (which a lot of people seem to have missed) and Megaera.

I feel somehow disappointed. So much has changed that the constant throw-ins of recognizable names seem necessary to keep it feeling like Golden Sun. (Do they just mention Nyunpa as a reference to the previous games or does he actually appear? Although I'll probably have found out by the time I read any reply...)

I also have 3 Sun Saga Books so far: One in Isaac's cabin, One in a house at Patcher's Place and One in the meeting hall of Passaj.


I really hope I haven't missed any Mercury djinn... and does anyone else find the random battles with djinn on the world map annoying?

Personally i think those pointless references are a large part of what kept me interested in the game, I really enjoyed attempting to find towns and characters from the previous games... of course there aren't many. :(

And I have every book but 4... none of which i found, i just bought them from stores occasionally, not sure how they work.

I think you can buy the books if you get to a point where you can not find them anymore because of the points of no return. I kind of like them, because it is the closest that I can get to seeing the characters from the first two games. Otherwise, I found that I did not need too many references. Come on though, we can not go to Kalay! I can probably pinpoint it on the map, but we can not go to that small fraction of Angara.

Ayuthay? Not sure if you have missed any Awec. When you passed the ruins, how many did you have? Oh yeah, there is a random Jupiter to the west of Kaocho, a Venus that you can easily miss unless you explore Harapa (you need Cold Snap for it), a Mars (which you can get on your way through). Actually, could you please name them? This way, I can check to see which ones you have missed.

It was really funny, but I nearly missed it. For a second, I thought that it was just my imagination.

Have a nice day.

Aight, here are the djinn I have so far:
Flint
Flower
Steel
Bark

Fever
Forge
Cinder

Jolt
Gust
Ether

Sleet
Chill

I've noticed 2 Mars djinn and 1 Jupiter that I can't reach yet. (One is blocked by a man in Kaocho, another is on a cliff that I assume can be reached after activating the alchemy forge at Passaj, and the Jupiter is on a leaf that I assume can be reached after draining/fixing the alchemy well at Ayuthay.

QUICK EDIT:
Just got Breath (the above-mentioned Jupiter djinn) and Surge. Also, I accidentally forgot to open a chest when the water was down, so after a quick run back to well room I found out it was only a vial.  :irate:

Say does anyone knows how to get Arangoa Prelude music? i finished that part in the game and i really liked it though i can't find it anywhere >< and I'm not sure how to extract that from the game.

Edit: I found a program that can rip music tracks from NDS roms .. VGMTrans.

Awec: I think you are up to speed. Just in case, I have a link to a guide if you want it. It even lists the djinn that are exclusive to Isaac and Garet near the beginning.

[spoiler=Djinn and Summon list]http://www.gamefaqs.com/ds/960545-golden-sun-dark-dawn/faqs/61205[/spoiler]

DarkGriever: Sounds like a cool program!


By the way, is Chaucha actually in the game? I have not been able to find her in either of the Champas, yet Briggs told Eoleo to tell her... did he really tell him to tell his mother of Briggs' death, when there is no Chaucha?

I also went back to Kaocho. Almost everyone died, even the old lady who wants you to take her package to her grandchild. However, according to one of the soldier spirits, everyone who survived is in the locked castle.

Have a nice day.

yah nice program though it only opens NDS roms for now, its still in beta. It will be able to open a lot more in later versions ... that's what the site said anyway.

If anyone want the program .... PM me.

I just got the SHIP!!!!! and i have no idea where to go ><
well if Eoleo can't tell his mom that his father is dead .. i guess he will do that after game ends? just a guess.

I suggest that you follow the edge of the eclipse until you find an island that overlaps it. Of course, you might have done that by the time you have read this. Either way, you have to go there before you can get Himi.

Have a nice day.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I missed Gears!
There goes my brilliant 100% first time through attempt...

I just started the Eclipse (to be precise, just obtained the Crystal Dragon) and other than Gears and Spout (which I should still be able to grab) I'm up to date.

I just found out why everyone had golden fur near the end, but I never spoke to anyone when I played the first time.

[spoiler=Types of psynergy, you should not read this until you beat the game]
So we now know that there are at least types of psynergy that people can be. We have the elements:

Fire, Water, Earth, Wind.

We also have two new types, Light and Dark psynergy.[/spoiler]

Overall, this felt more like a combination of games than a true Golden Sun game. The music is almost completely different (bordering Zelda and Final Fantasy), and the game feels quite linear overall. It is still a great addition though.

Have a nice day.

Well i say it has very nice music sometimes ... especially Arangoa Prelude ... I found the NDS music extractor just for that one  :Sweat:

Yah like you guessed i ended up in the island but now you confirmed that i did the right thing  :happy:

Yeah, that was a cool tune. It is unfortunate that it becomes "illegal" to play when you do finally return to Belinsk. I do like the music in the game, it is just that it has changed so much compared to the music in the first two games.

Cool. After you finish with the blue towers, you should head to Yamata/Izumo. There is also a wild Mars djinni there, so you should search near the mountain.

On a different note, has anyone noticed how much easier Star Magician is compared to the other guardians? I killed him sooner than the final boss, yet these other bosses seem quite resistant to my attempts.

Have a nice day.

I'd say the easiest bonus boss is the group of trolls in the volcano cave. All you have to worry about is high damage. Just keep Karis or Rief spamming healing, someone with Protect to keep your Defence up, and have everyone else go all-out with weapon attacks and EPAs.

Off-topic: And take that, Role. You and your "only warrior builds can have EPAs!" nonsense. See? I WAS RIGHT. SPELLSWORDS CAN HAVE EPAS IN THEIR DEFAULT CLASSES.

...Ahem.

Or that "there is nothing evil, never anything evil" thing either. "No! Evil does not exist in Golden Sun!" Suddenly, an Eclipse that kills dozens of people comes into mind.

Good point about the trolls/ogres though, I think I shall challenge them again. I made some changes before, but I can easily give Rief the Wish set if I want. Summon rushing with Matthew/Tyrell's djinn to take care of the easier ones, and then actual fighting for the others. When #5 comes around, I might have my second party out. Then I use Chasm... of course, Karis has Revive. Being the fastest of Party 1, I could probably make it survive if I keep at least two people alive at all times.

Of course, Protector Matthew is really good as well.

Have a nice day.

The problem with the trolls is that your lowered stats when summoning are liable to get people killed. (They have that huge slash thing that targets every party member.) Ideally, you should be able to finish the battle with everyone standing. Matthew can inflict massive punishment in his default class with whatever that cool endgame sword is. (Is it the Sol Blade?) Just have him spam the Attack command to unleash massive destruction. Purgatory, something that looks like Mad Zephyr, something that looks like Crucible Fire or Radiant Fire, and Megiddo all come to mind. Also, doesn't Eoleo learn Protect in his default class?

You could also just unleash Sveta's Beast Form on the suckers and watch 'em die.

As for that annoying guy who steals your party members, my suggestion would be to equip everyone with sub-par weaponry so you don't have to worry about being hit with Megiddos and Vengeances and Emerald Rushes and all that sort of nastyness. Get them the best defensive gear you can, if anyone has Hyper Boots or similar unleash boosters, remove 'em, and try hitting the boss with single-target base damage and EPAs. Also, make sure to spam healing every round. I believe he also summons using the Djinn of your stolen ally, so watch out for that.

I was using Eoleo's base class, but I kept Isaac as a Protector because of Wish (and some of his Mercury djinn). I eventually did it, but I only had three people standing. Matthew, Tyrell, and Rief. Of course, they were my lowest levels, so little harm was done (especially considering how strong some of the monsters in Crossbone Isle are, I can probably make it to level 55+ quite quickly). Yeah, those beast moves are really cool.

And the Ancient Demon is my next target, after I get Iris. Of course, Karis has over 20 Luck because of the Iris Robe that I found, so she might be my best character now (or at least second to Sveta). Dullahan is really cool though, and Fulminous Edge looks even cooler.

Have a nice day.

I just 100% completed Dark Dawn, and now essentially playing a new game plus. Gotta say, Ancient Demon was a pain. I found all the other bosses to be fairly easy, but even at completely maxed levels, I still couldn't beat Ancient Demon until my fifth attempt. Danged demon sign...

I just killed Dullahan on my second attempt. But wow, Tyrell gets 58,800 experience all to himself. Eh, he would have died too, were it not for one of Daedalus' late missels. I like how much stronger he was, it was a fun challenge. And now, I go on to the Ancient Demon. I have Iris now, so I reckon that I should be able to do it quickly. I hope it still heals and revives both parties. On the positive side, the Iris Robe is still an excellent item.

Maybe I can visit Ayuthay after this, despite the fact that their soldiers wear bras for some reason.

Have a nice day.

Flare Storm is inferior. Go Arid Scorch! XP

Also, Dullahan is a real pain in DD. You start summon rushing? Oh, that's too bad.

"Dullahan summons Daedalus!"

You: "FFFFFFFUUUUUU--"

I kind of have to, when he can kill someone in one hit, and has at least two (or was it three?) turns. If things go horribly wrong, he will use Djinn Storm and kill several of my characters. If I were at least level 65, I might have been able to do it. Of course, I did pretty well with only 43+ members. I was really lucky, because he only ever used my weaker summons (like Kirin). Of course, the fact that he has Charon did not help either.

Ancient Demon fell very quickly, but he possessed Karis before his death (best Luck stat because of the Iris Robe). Anyway, I am going to fight the final boss again.

Have a nice day.

It doesn't matter if he possessed her as long as she didn't die. I'm pretty sure she'll still gain EXP as long as she survives, even if she fights on the wrong side for most of the battle.

What level were you guys when you got finished the eclipse? All my party members have an average level of; 31.4285714(sorry, I just had to be perfect ;D)

What is EPA by the way? (That rhymed!)

EPA stands for Elemental Physical Attack. Moves like Ragnarok and Heat Wave are EPAs.

Guys, just because a developer puts something in a game, doesn't mean its automatically right. I'm not saying I agree with Role, though.

Care to explain that logic to me? If it's in the game, it's canon. It is automatically right if it's in the game, unless Word of God later says it isn't.

Karis did die though. Funny too, but she was possessed right after I used Chasm on my team. None of my other party members died, but I had one or two summons that I was just using up at that point. Needless to say, I killed her on the turn that she was possessed (better than Matthew, who still had the Sol Blade equipped).

In this playthrough, I forget. It was a little bit lower than that, like 26-28 or something.

Have a nice day.

Edit: Also, it turns out that you can end the second final battle (Chalis, Chaos Hound, and Blados) in either two or three ways. Two known ways are if you kill just the Hound, or if you kill Blados and Chalis (but let the Hound live). Nothing really changes if you do though. I want to try killing all three of them, but I doubt that anything will happen either.

I'd doubt anything would happen...

When I versed it I tried to focus solely on Blados at first, and actually ended up killing Chaos Hound first by accident...
And I found my team always rather under leveled, they were like 5 levels lower than Sveta when we first got her, than 8 or so the second time, with Himi it was around 12 or 15 levels difference!

That happened to me as well, except that the levels were a bit closer to each new character. In the end, the original members ended up becoming my stronger ones.

Also, what would Himi's dragon summons be considered? Her base classes seem to make her a mage, so...

Have a nice day.

Did anyone else find Shell the hardest djinn to get? (Gaia Falls islet)
I mean seriously, I didn't even think I could reach the grip stones until for some reason trying again what I tried before worked.

Also, where was I supposed to go before Izumo? For some reason I can't progress at all in the cave behind Uzume's grave/tomb. (And seriously, I swear the cutscene where she speaks to you is unnecessarily creepy.)

One last thing; is there any way to get back into Kaocho palace after the trap door opens and you fall into the Ouruboros? I've just been back there and found the door locked. (And I didn't even get a chance to explore it the first time around.)

Actually, one more thing - what's in the chest on top of the Belinsk palace? Can you get to it at all or is it just there to explain something else.

I found Shell really easy, but there was one wild one in the Eclipsed area near Tonfon that I found hard. Of course, when all of your characters are over level 43, the Eclipse monsters tend to do less damage to you.

Oh, you have to go through the game until you get the second orb (like the blue one that Sveta's brother gave you). After that, you can activate the tablets.

There is never any way to get back there after you fall. Even when the Eclipse has started, the door is sealed from the other side. You can still talk to all of the skeletons on the outside, which is an effective way to find out about all of Kaocho's children. Also, did you go to the top left house and get the Grandmother's Gift? You can get Ninja Sandals if you started that mini-quest. If not, then...

It isn't much really. I think it might be an item of some sort, if I recall correctly. You can indeed open it, if you use "Slap" on a bell in one of the hallways. The guard will be distracted, allowing you to open the door that he was guarding.

And now I have a question. Other than seeing some interesting lines beforehand, can you rescue Eoleo before the princess-girl? I started running up the stairs, and this lady was like "It isn't my job, but shouldn't you rescue the princess before the pirate?" I was just about to go to Eoleo, when the girl's brother (the one who activated the Alchemy Dynamo) said "You wouldn't really choose a pirate over my sister, would you?" I wanted to say "Yes" instead of "No," to see what the lines would be (after all, I rescued her before Eoleo in my first playthrough). Unfortunately, I pressed No.

Can I actually rescue Eoleo first, or did they do that just for character development?


Have a nice day.

So, I think I'm screwed.  Party Level is about Level 41, and I didn't save before facing Ancient Devil.  (didn't know)

Anyways, he steals Rief, and so every turn that Rief isn't unleashing Heartbreaker he's using Pure Ply or my Summons.


Currently, I managed to fight back so that it's Turn 14, Coatlicue active on Matthew, Karis, and Sveta, (Amiti died during the turn I summoned her :( ).  Any pointers?

(Btw, I love how most everything I had planned for my hack is IN Dark Dawn.)

Sorry, I had a really strong team by then. I mean, I had my fair share of Tua Warriors and Great Dragons before getting Iris, so I had her before even getting to him (and Catastrophe was my last summon). He also took Karis, who (besides having over 20 Luck) was not the most special character at the time.

Also, that is pretty cool too. There were even things that I had planned, and I usually plan for Mario based games over anything else.

Oh yeah, please wish me luck! I am going to kill the final bosses using only Attack (so no psynergy, djinn, summons, or items). My team is 50+ though, so I should do it. I might try to get 55+ beforehand though. There are enough Tua Warriors up here, I might as well.

Also, level 50 Eoleo as a War Adept has over 1000 HP (or mine does at least). I still prefer Karis and Sveta over him though.

Have a nice day.

Never mind.  I beat him at Level 41.  Abusing Coatlicue was the only way to get myself back on track.  It was hard, especially since Rief got exchanged for Sveta.

Keep. Sveta. In. The BACK! Wait, can he just use Summons randomly? Without having to use Djinn first?

Anyway, my strategy would be to keep everyone using somewhat inferior weaponry, and just beat on the Demon with single-target base damage and EPAs like Eoleo's Dragon Fume (at least, I think Eoleo has the Fume series). Maybe alternating between Ground and Petra would be a good way of keeping your party member from attacking while you hit the boss.

FYI I haven't beat the game, and after I read [spoiler]"Karis did die"[/spoiler] I thought "holy crap, why isn't that in spoiler tags?

That was because she died when fighting the Ancient Demon. Not plot-wise, just in-battle.

Yeah, and my team was responsible for it.

And if you can, you should assault as many Tua Warriors as you can with standard attacks. I can kill them all after one or two turns, and it is really fun (especially for how much experience I get). After one hour, my team managed to become level 68+ (from the previous 61+). You are pretty much guaranteed a Water of Life for each battle too, and they are so easy to kill.

And after I finish my homework today, I think I will try to kill the final boss again. No psynergy, no using djinn/summons (they will be set though), and no items.

Have a nice day.

Hmm i still haven't fought any battle that was hard to the point where one of the characters dies ...... btw sala I'm stuck at the blue lighthouse like tower ...... i will have to finish that after my exams  :sad:

Btw my party average level is 34 is that good or low for me? i usually rush and end up with under leveled party.

I have only had that for the optional bosses (oh, and a final boss). I kind of wish that I could rebattle the optional bosses, since it would be pretty cool to just practice on them.

That is pretty good for where you are, since Himi joins at level 35 when you make it to Yamata. I think you still have a level or two that you will gain before you get her though, unless you have already worked on that level a bit.

Have a nice day.

Just got Himi.

PS: Reveal is a piece of annoying crap now.

PSS: also love how that what is obviously Japan (to the point where I could pinpoint major cities's locations) everyone speaks English

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 08, December, 2010, 12:20:42 AM
That was because she died when fighting the Ancient Demon. Not plot-wise, just in-battle.

DUUUUH

Sorry, I wasn't really following the conversation...

QuotePS: Reveal is a piece of annoying crap now.

No kidding. The circle of 6 means nothing now, and the new version take more than 5 seconds to finish because of the animation (assuming that there is nothing hidden, because hidden objects increase it even more). It does not even work when trying to find items in jars or barrels anymore either. It is the Lense of Truth, it is just that Himi does not need to go to Hyrule to use it.

[spoiler=Lense of Truth](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090807230222/zelda/images/8/83/Lens_of_Truth.png)

See? Three spikes on top, one on the bottom (near the handle), and the eye in the middle.[/spoiler]

Yeah, Japan is fun. I kind of liked some of the ancient Asian empires/civilizations too, such as Ayutthaya. I also see a spot where Indra would fit, to be like India in Asia. Oh yeah, did you get the random Mars djinni there? You have to go around the old Gaia Rock/Mt. Mikage to get to it.

Hehe, it happens to everyone sometimes.

Have a nice day.

It's very interesting to try out the optional bosses with a low level.  After beating Ancient Devil with an average level of 41, and the final boss with an average level of 43, I decided to try Star Magician at Level 43.


Except, my classes were different.
Front: Karis (Pure Mage), Matthew (Protector), Amiti (Pure Mage), Sveta (Pure Mage)
Back: Himi (Curse Master), Eoleo (Hull Reaver), Tyrell (Warrior - basically all the spare Djinni), Rief (Pure Mage)

I'm surprised at how easy that battle was, and I gained 4 levels with everyone in the front and 2 in the back.  It was ridiculous.

I guess you like Pure Mages...

Too much XP is given out in this game. I level up every 5 or so battles and on every boss battle. It's getting annoying.
Also, the forgeable items are epicness.

I would prefer other classes but that would screw over another two people not named Tyrell.  At least with this setup only one member suffers.

Edit:
Yes yes YES!  Dullahan has Crucible!  Awesome~

Those are nice classes. I have my team as...

Karis (Oracle), Matthew (Protector), Amiti (Aqua Master, and the only one using a base class), Sveta (Gladiator)
Himi (Diabolist), Eoleo (War Adept), Tyrell (War Adept), Rief (Guru)

But I always mix it up, so I do not have an actual front or back team. I was also not sure how to mix it up enough to give Eoleo and Tyrell different classes without messing up the others. Eoleo was once a Hull Reaver, but I wanted to mix it up a bit. Of course, Sveta ends up with the lowest amount of psynergy, but she does come with the Boon* set (basically like the Wind Cure, which none of the base classes seem to have) and Revive. Karis is probably my best though. She comes with the Cure set, Revive, 842 Agility (Zol Ring, which Obaba seems to make very rarely), 24 Luck (Iris Robe), 604 Attack (Masamume), and a few weak psynergy sets (like Bolt and Growth). Her Attack isn't much to brag about at her level, but it is still nice enough to consider it good. Himi is the class that comes after Curse Master. I think you should already know what most of her good stuff seems to be, such as the Undead psynergies. She has the lowest HP though, still below 1000.

Could you please tell me how you get Pure Mage again? I kind of forget...

Certainly, and some enemies do not give enough. For example, Tua Warriors are much easier than most of the monsters near Crossbone Isle, yet they give almost 3/4x as much experience. I mean, one Tua Warrior gives almost the same amount of experience as a Great Dragon, which seems to be about 4x as strong.

*Boon is like the Cure set, but each psynergy only costs 1 PP more than its Earth counterpart. Also, Potent Cure heals 300 HP (costs 10 PP), and Vital Boon heals 600, costing only 11 PP. So yeah, Karis and Sveta are my two best units. Matthew and Tyrell follow closely though, and then the others are not used as often. They are all good, just not as good as these two.

Have a nice day.

Why on EARTH are you using the Seer series, Sala? Seer is a horrible class. Sure, it gets Revive, but Karis' base class has a more useful healing spell than Cure, and she gets Impact, as well as the all-powerful Spark Plasma. (Which looks an awful lot like Thunderbolt in Pokemon, and a lot like Thunder Blade in Tales of Phantasia.)

I barely use psynergy anymore, to be honest. Besides, I go for the Agility and Luck stats, or are they better in her base class? I also kind of like the name, and I am worried that I will mess up the other units if I make too many changes. Both Matthew and Rief have the Wish set, and I rarely need to heal anymore. Not to mention that Karis seems to be very good at unleashing Rising Dragon, which more often than not releases two heads instead of one. She is at the point where she can kill a Tua Warrior in one hit if her weapon unleashes the stronger Rising Dragon.

Mind, I don't need Revive anymore. I have over 60 Waters of Life, probably nearing 80 or 90. I never really use the stat boosting/lowering ones either though... I guess I can mix it up with Tyrell or something, to see what I get.

Have a nice day.

I don't know about Luck, but I know her base class has higher Agility than Oracle.

Well, she is a Wizard now. Tyrell is also a Ronin. However, Amiti is a horrible Elder, which I can not really change without messing up the new classes. On the positive side, Karis now has 957 Agility and 30 Luck. I think Attack went down, but it can go back up easily if I train her some more.

But wah! Amiti kind of sucks now... upgrading him will make the others suffer.

Have a nice day.

Edit: Fixed! Tyrell is now a Chaos Lord, which makes Amiti a Wizard.

Pure Mage - Level 5 Jupiter, Level 5 Mercury, Level 4 Venus.

Sweet, thanks for telling me.

And... what should I do at this point? I still have my team at level 68+, because I have been a bit busy with some work. However, if I have every summon, and have killed every boss...

Have a nice day.

The bad thing: Challenging Star Magician with weak weapons, poor tactics and a level 38 team.
The good thing: The last sanctum being in Tonfon and having just rescued Ryu Kou and it his sister. Massive journey with annoying random battles skipped ftw.

Does anyone else find the way they prevented you from going to Indra, Osenia and other places rather irritating? (I can understand the land changing due to the Golden Sun's effect but why on earth would half of the ocean sink down like that?)

I hated the oceans being lower as well, it made little sense when compared to the past two games. Gaia Falls is eroding, so we need to light the lighthouses to... enhance the effect? Besides, how would people on the other continents get around? There is a chance that the Eclipse Tower did that though, since we are never actually on the ocean until the tower is activated. Still, it shows up on the map...

I would rather have been blocked by icebergs than waterfalls, since it is known that the icebergs were growing due to the eclipse. There was even a bit of ice in Tonfon, which was not directly in the darkness.

Have a nice day.

Gaia Falls was always there and always will be. Unleashing Alchemy causes the constant creation of more water, so you don't have to worry about ever running out. Unleashing Alchemy also causes the land to stabilize, so it no longer erodes into the abyss.

Also, the start of the two machines in Ei-Jei (Tell me if this is wrong I forgot the real name) made even MORE water, so now Weyard will either overflow, or just increase in size until it because another version of earth.

There is one problem with that though. It is well known that Eoleo and Piers have travelled the world, which would mean that Eoleo probably travelled the world within the previous 10 or 12 years of his life (he is not likely to travel when he is still a teenager, at least not by himself). He could have travelled with Briggs, but what about the waterfalls and that "artifact" ship? And then we still have Piers. According to what characters say, Piers is still travelling the world. He might have the ship from the Lost Age, but I almost have a feeling that Sheba is more likely to inherit the Hover Jade than he is (or that it is given back to the Shamans for... the next party to get).

Maybe, but it is making fresh water. I have a strange feeling that it will eventually mix in with the salt water, and then that is when the fish will return to the waters near Champa (since after all, the fish might have left because it became saltier).

Also, I think that is the right name of that region.

By the way, has anybody seen Chaucha in the game? When Briggs died, he told Eoleo to tell his mother (aka, Chaucha). Is that the only reference to her? I have not been able to find her, and none of the corpses near Champa think of anything that Chaucha would have thought (at least, none of them ever really referenced Eoleo or Briggs as family for them). I am starting to think that there might have been a translation error, where they thought that Obaba was Eoleo's mother (Briggs + Obaba sounds creepier than the Nowell + Piers thing to me, which has been stated as so).

Have a nice day.

You know that the encyclopedia specifically says Weyard is a disc shaped right? Its not a sphere or anything, and you can literally fall off the edge of the world.

I think Ivan probably ended up with the Hover Jade, being the one who was supposed to fulfill the promise in the first place.

The reason the fish left Champa was because Poseidon's return caused the warming of the oceans. That would have been fixed as soon as Alchemy was released.

Yes I do know that Weyard is a disc planet.

Anyone else think that stat boosting items like Apples are given out way too often and weapons not often enough?
Seriously, there was a huge chunk of game where there were no Bows that could compare with other weapons the bow characters could use.  Also, there were several large parts where all Axes I found were substandard to the swords I found and even the ones in shops.
Also, I swear there are only 3 or so weapons actually found as Artifacts in shop lists and all others you have to find.

Anyone of the opinion that you should be able to buy Spark Shuriken and Psy Grenades?

Considering you get, y'know, ONE of each of those items in the whole game?

I mean, at least you can buy Rice Rations and Plump Dumplings in Kaocho, but you never have access to the Psy Grenades used by the Stealthy Scouts, except for the one you get after the battle. And you get a Spark Shuriken from your first fight with Blados, but you can never get any more than that.

Yeah, and there is no chance of getting them from Tua Warriors either. It is the same with the Illusion Perfume. At the very least, they should have been reusable items.

As for Rice Rations and Plump Dumplings, I think you can also get those in Tonfon when the store is blocked in Kaocho. Still though, all of these items should be sold at stores, or dropped by other monsters.

Have a nice day.

Yeah, but the Illusion Perfume isn't even useful. All it does is delude up to three enemies.

I'm saving my Psy Grenade and my Spark Shuriken for the final battle

I'm of the opinion that those are gimmick items, since they don't seem to be exceptionally useful and aren't even artifacts (since I sold mine and can't re-buy them).

Actually it's more like these items exist in the game to be used against us rather than we use them against enemies.
I mean they were so effective when they were first used against us when fighting the strange soldiers (forgot there name).

I do like that the game gives us some to play with, but it's still annoying not having more than one. Besides that, the Spark Shuriken is an EPA I think. How else do you explain it doing massive damage in some videos I've seen in the game and it hitting, like, 8 damage in other vids of the same fight?

I think that they are supposed to act like souvenirs, when they are just momentos that you can get for fights. We should still be able to get more than one though, it would be fun if we could use them.

Have a nice day.

The last minute of my life:

Start fight with Ancient Devil, have Sveta go into beast form, Ancient Devil possesses Sveta.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

You can probably guess what happened next. D:

Hehe, still havn't reached that piont but since i don't use Sveta i don't know who it might posses.

It possessed Karis on my team, probably because of her really high Agility and Luck. I think it might pick the strongest available character, or else it picks the one with a highest stat average? I am not really sure. Of course, it could try to calculate which of the characters is more likely to be able to kill the rest of your team.

Have a nice day.

I get the feeling, in my team Matthew will be possessed .... since he has the highest ATK.
Salanewt ... i really don't think they will have the monster calculate who is the best character to kill the rest, else they are really .... mean >< can't find another word to say.

I believe that ancient demon possesses the party member on the far right until the one there is down, then it switches to others.

I think you might be right. However, I forget whether Karis was last in line, or if she was second (since I usually have her as my second member, right after Matthew).

Have a nice day.

I think its right. I would know, seeing as a failed to beat him after 20 times...

Then stick a disarmed Himi over there, and make sure to use up all her Psynergy before the fight.

Stuck in the Apollo cliffs (at the end of the great wall). I've found a weird statue with no head and the head under a crush rock a short distance away, but can't figure out how to go on or what the point of the head is, if any. (Although I'm assuming it's connected to progressing.)

Does anyone think, after completing the main storyline, that the game is waaaay too short? I'm at the final boss and have only played for around 16h :sad: .
Also, does anyone know if they are making another one?

I'm at the last main dungeon in story mode. After I complete the game I'm going to do another playthrough, this time a Rief-only playthrough for great justice.

So Rief is your fav. character?

I just got Himi ... haven't played the game for a while ><

Why do they always make the first Mars Adept so stupid?  :Sweat:

Rief is awesome! Out of all of the new characters, he makes it in my top 10 (including NPCs of course, else it would not be 10). Overall, he is in my top 20. I do not know about Charon's tastes, and her list is probably different from mine.

I don't know, I always found Jenna to be fairly smart (unless you are talking about the first of both sets of 8). Of course, Tyrell is the son of Freddie Garet, so it would be odd to some if he were smarter than his old man.

Apollo Sanctum? Excellent experience there, especially against the Tua Warriors. They give you ludicrous amounts of experience points, so one could easily go up by 10-20 levels in an hour.

Himi is okay, at least for a mage character. She comes with some pretty unique psynergy though, aside from the ones that make her associated with plants.

Have a nice day.

There's a lot of hate against Rief and I really don't get why. He's awesome because of his glasses and everything (hugs Rief badge).

Amiti just annoyed me because he was like generic "you did bad so me no like you", Sveta was almost like she wasn't there, Eoleo should have been more like his father... and Himi I hated at first but now I don't mind so much (my real dislike came from her creepy OA)

Personally, I think that Sveta should have stayed with you until meeting Tret. I mean, it would have been better for her to find out about the feather just before you attempt to get it. That way, she would give you the Slap Glove before leaving, and it would be a shorter period of time for which she is away.

Have a nice day.

Amiti I like because he's a mage with an EPA. Eoleo is awesome, because he's blunt, but not stupid. Karis I like because she has personality. The only thing stopping Karis from being the leader of the group is the fact that she worries too much. XD.

I dislike Rief because he's... well... he talks to much, tells you the most obvious things, and he's a dork. He's like a Kraden Junior. I dislike Sveta because she is overpowered every which way, and aside from attempting to hit on Matthew at the end of the game, she has no personality whatsoever. Himi is practically not there, plus she's just plain creepy. I mean, what's creepier than an oracle kid with three eyes who randomly floats every time she has a premonition? She calls her mother and father "papa" and "mama", for heaven's sake.

Despite all the stupid things Tyrell does, I don't mind him that much. Maybe it has something to do with having the Arid Heat series partway through.

Also, you know what? I seriously think that the Sand Prince should have been a one-on-one fight between him and Tyrell.

There should have been more of the psynergy royals though. Ice Queen and Sand Prince were not enough, but they were unique as well.

That is true about Karis, though I would think that Freddie worried much more than she did.

And you have a point about Himi. I mean, she does what I would have expected a Jupiter Adept to do. She floats, and she has telepathic powers that connect her mind to the Lense of Truth.

I happen to like Tyrell quite a bit, although his comment about pigeons helped raise his level a bit.

Have a nice day.

Don't worry, there will probably be some more psynergy royalty in the next game. Matthew's my fave. Poor Matthew was so tired of being a mute by the end, his one line was a curse word haha.

It kinda irked me that they had to go around and rename like every psynergy that you get past getting to the southern part of Anagra. Especially Frost to Cold Snap. Ew.

They didn't, those are seperate lines. Frost still exists, you just don't have access to it... >.>
Arid heat is different as well, since it's drying up the water, not just making disappear like parch.

Wait, what? Frost does like exactly the same thing as Cold Snap (although the in-battle graphics are quite different)

Yeah, but I remember an enemy hitting me with Glacier (I think, or was it Tundra?). It still had an animation that is similar to the GBA ones. I think Parch did something similar, it just boiled it into steam instead of drying it up with heat.

While Cold Snap is not as pleasant sounding as Frost, it kind of makes more sense if looking at it a certain way. I mean, Frost is a thin layer of frozen condensation, while a Cold Snap can... um... well, it is actually a period of time. I guess water can built up when frozen during a period of time.

Have a nice day.

The reason they renamed Parch to Arid Heat was that Parch isn't a battle Psynergy, and is also Water Elemental, while Arid Heat is a battle Psynergy series.

And Cold Snap is a different Psynergy series because it has different PP costs and power than the Frost series.

Woah, I totally did not notice this :/

I thought it was weird how the Sand Prince/Ice Queen gave you the entire psynergy line lol

I know! Especially since you're likely to get Arid Scorch before you get Flare Storm, and Arid Scorch is more powerful. Which results in people spamming Arid Scorch forever. Or at least it would if idiot gamers didn't use Nova and Flare Storm all the time when Arid Scorch is obviously stronger.

And actually, I'm not even sure Cold Snap DOES have a different cost than Frost. I do know that it's way more epic though. I think they renamed it because it looks so different in combat. I think it does better damage too.

I still say they should have made the Sand Prince battle a one-on-one fight. Not the Ice Queen though, since she was being legitimately evil, so it was about more than just a cool Psynergy.

Sand Prince
Ice Queen
Wind Matriarch
Mountain Lord

Hehehehe, I don't hate Rief but i don't like him either. I refer to use another Mars adept instead of him. Since my main team is Matthew, Karis, Tyrell and Eoleo.

Himi was strange to me ... she can float which is ...... not Venus like at all. And wasn't the telepathy thing a Jupiter Adept specialty? I get why Karis didn't get Mind Read but then Sveta had something similar.

And i agree with Salanewt, there was a monster that used Tundra (it wasn't that strong) on me ... Just forgot where.

Spirit Sense is a power known only by the royal lineage of Morgal.

Presumably, Karis could learn Mind Read, but just hasn't put in the time to train for it, or perhaps doesn't want to. I don't see any other reason for only some Jupiter Adepts to have the power. Let's see: Sheba and Ivan have it, Karis doesn't have it, Hama has it, Maha doesn't have it, Nyunpa has it, Feizhi doesn't have it. In fact, it's specifically stated by Hama in GS1 that all Wind Adepts can learn Mind Read, Reveal, and the power of prophecy.

Then there's the Third Eye, which gives whoever it chooses a weaker version of Reveal and the power of Prophecy. So there's Himi's excuse for not being Venus-like. She has a powerful Psynergy-bestowing artifact ATTACHED TO HER HEAD. And presumably, the Third Eye could choose anyone.

Edit: Yeah, Cold Snap is much stronger than Frost at higher levels. Coldforge costs 12 PP, and Frostbite costs 20 PP. Also, Coldforge sounds more awesome than the Frost line.

Edit2: What's this BS I hear? Sveta knows Cure Poison and Restore in her base class? That's just wrong. Wind Adept + Mercury Psynergy in base class = broken rules. VERY broken rules.

Just finished the game. Pretty much just  rushed the last bit of it, skipped most of the hidden bosses, so now I'm doing my Rief playthrough... except I didn't get Rief yet. lol

this may be off topic (a little bit) but....

is it just me or does Karis look exactly like Jenna but with green hair???

i mean the cape and the clothes and the staff and well if you look closly the skirt... o.0

and she is Ivan's daughter so does that mean that Ivan and Jenna = Karis???
                                                       NOT Isaac and jenna = Matthew???
:up: :down: :up: :down: :up: :down: :up: :down: :up: :down: :up: :down: :up: :down: :up: :down:

and i tried to make that sound has harm less as possible... :um: :um:



:um:       :fury:            :um:
:Isaac:      :Jenna: .......... :Ivan:

The game says Jenna is Matthew's mother so i tend to believe the game, don't you?

And i don't see how Karis looks like Jenna ... well maybe the initial design was taken from Jenna but it does not look like her.

BTW ... i like Karis's personality ><

lol well i may post what i mean at another time.

this is just coming from some one who does not even have the game yet so what do i know!

Does anyone else get the impression that it started out as a generic (non-Golden Sun) RPG, and then was sloppily adapted when they realized they could make it work better (make more money) by associating it with Golden Sun.
For me, light and dark adepts/psynergy... just ugh.
And in the tutorial, Isaac even pretty much says that dark things are water-based and light things are fire based.
And, after all the psynergies are based on the elements... how can light and dark be elements? The existing ones made sense at least...

TBH Karis looks like Ivan + Sheba.

Just finished off the Sand Prince. He was the first boss that I battled using only Rief. Wasn't too bad except for the fact that Eruption would take away half of his HP... >_> (He's got all Mars djinn)

Nice .... I still haven't finished my first playthrough ... I'm trying to beat the stupid demon that keeps possesing Karis >< and I'm only level 35 ....

Good luck. I couldn't beat that guy until I was lvl 99 so... yeah. Good luck.

What are you saying lol. How much Hp does he have? I survive a lot .... for over 20 turns >< but stupid Matthew ...... he got possessed instead of Karis last time and ruined my plan ><

Since he possessed her all the 6 times i tried to kill him, i emptied her PP and removed her weapon but then he got greedy and went after Matthew  :Sweat:

...It's what happens when you play a party of all the physical attackers and with matthew getting possessed all the time. And a failed summon rush attempt. Before then, I lasted 5 rounds. So I gave up and grinded to 99

Wait wah I lasted 30 rounds ... 30!!!!!!! i got him to posses Karis with empty PP but she had Weapon equipped but no armor ><

I think i can win this time ><

Wait, what happens if Ancient Demon possesses your only alive character? Does he... just hang out or something?

Dunno ... i guess no one had that kind of situation to test it ><

This boss is annoying me >< I have to level to at least 40 now before i try him again (I'm 35 btw ><).

You game over. Simple as that.

Quote from: Whizkidhv on 21, December, 2010, 05:38:28 AM
You game over. Simple as that.

You can't be serious.

Well... do you mean if you have one party member left possessed, or one party member vs ancient demon?

One party member left, and then AD decides to possess them, because I'm doing a Rief playthrough and all the other characters will be down.

Hm. I don't think AD will possess Rief then. It should also be an easy fight, as the difficulty is due to having your own party members attack you with their skills and summons.

I think I should record the fights and post them on youtube. They might end up quite hilarious. XD

I think she meant, if you get one party member left and that party member get possessed by ancient demon. So basically both.

Well, I tried to get to that point, but never could. I tried to, but in the end it was Amiti vs a Matthew equipped with Sol blade, Valkyrie Mail, that one ninja sandal, and Warrior helm. Not pretty...

Hehehe ..... I'm level 40 now and will try him again. Hope i can win this time.

wow level 40!

is this boss really that hard???

i feel like i am liking this game less and less the more i hear...

My first runthrough I was about level 42 with no real grinding o.o

I rushed a bit so i had to level till level 40 ... and yes i won over that annoying boss.

It gets worse: Unless you can defeat the boss before he uses Demon Sign, your party will not get full experience from the boss. Any character he possesses with Demon Sign is knocked out when the boss dies. So essentially, you're stuck with at most 7 characters getting experience. Considering the huge amount of EXP given by the boss, that really, really sucks.

Well considering that Himi is the one that died .... i don't really care >< Since the other 7 got exp ... especially Matthew, Tyrell and Karis ..... the three that i always have in my party.

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 22, December, 2010, 04:34:12 PM
It gets worse: Unless you can defeat the boss before he uses Demon Sign, your party will not get full experience from the boss. Any character he possesses with Demon Sign is knocked out when the boss dies. So essentially, you're stuck with at most 7 characters getting experience. Considering the huge amount of EXP given by the boss, that really, really sucks.

You could probably make that up with the T-Pang soldiers on the Apollo Lens Beacon or whatever though.

But still I can't wait to get this game!

spoilers for most people ruin the game but for me the more i know the more fun it is when i get to that point.

(as long as i don't know to much)

And man i can't make up my mind if i like this game or not... lol. makes me want to play even more!
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No comment to next comment...

...Are you even playing the game?

DANGIT I JUST LOST THE GAME!

Also, no he hasn't played it. But then, neither have I.

O.o how can you talk about liking the game if you haven't played the game?

Let's Plays, guides, and walkthroughs. Oh, and this topic.

...XD

WOOO! got GS DD for Christmas and am at the first beastman town... how far into the game is that?

Wait, Belinsk? As far as I am aware, there are only two Beastman towns. The other one is beside Kolima. Either way, you are close to the 50% mark.

Have a nice day.

WOW nice, I'm on my second play-through ..... trying to get every single thing from items to summons ><

That sounds like fun. Oh yeah, it turns out that you can return to some towns after the Eclipse. One djinni is hidden in the mountainous town, near the southern coast.

And your post has reminded me of something. I might start another playthrough soon, because my quest for a 99 team was achieved before I arrived here.

Have a nice day.

Well my first play-through i didn't find 2 djinn >< now i know where to get 1 of them  :Sweat:

Ok now i am collecting the Dark gear... (don't remember exact name)
and so far the bosses are very easy... and i have not died yet.

and it seems like you level up very quick in this game.

Also what was the boss that you were having trouble with? he must be a head.

i am around level 36 and have not started to grind for exp. yet.

And so my post is not off topic:
Man the eclipse thing is so anoying ( not hard).
and i don't like that you don't have access to the whole world :sad:

Trust me, grinding is only necessary if you want to grind. Enemies tend to be very easy, yet they are really generous with experience. Tua Warriors are the easiest and quickest source of experience, and I am at the point where Karis can kill a group of 3 with one unleash. Of course, Matty can deal over 1000 damage with Megiddo at level 99. I stopped using psynergy to survive... 40 levels ago? I still use Ply/Wish to top of my HP, which is rarely needed anymore. The enemies near Crossbone Isle are tougher than Tua Warriors, but they give less experience.

Umbra Gear, right?

Also, does anybody find that they tend to put all djinn on standby before healing large sums of HP? I do not need to do it, but I have started because it is much easier.

Have a nice day.

Eh. I almost never keep any djinn on standby as I rarely use summons. When I do, it's usually only for dramatic effect. :)
I prefer sticking to weapon skills and psynergy. I just go with the flow of the battle.

Quote from: Salanewt on 27, December, 2010, 09:17:46 PM
Also, does anybody find that they tend to put all djinn on standby before healing large sums of HP? I do not need to do it, but I have started because it is much easier.

Have a nice day.

I tried that on GS1 and although I used Cure (didn't have Mia yet) less, I lost PP from putting the djinn on standby and didn't regain it when I set them again.

Quote from: Charon the Ferryman on 21, December, 2010, 06:53:38 AM

Quote from: Whizkidhv on 21, December, 2010, 05:38:28 AM
You game over. Simple as that.

You can't be serious.

When the AD takes a character, they are considered KOed.  When you take out the AD without taking the other character out, they're actually KOed and get NO xp.

@Tua warriors:  That was just plain ridiculous.  Even post game enemies give less experience.  The guaranteed Water of Life drop?  God, and I thought they couldn't make this game easier...

Wow, didn't even notice the guaranteed item drop now that you point it out... just ridiculous. I guess they're there just in case you didn't level up enough for the Chaos Chimera, but even then >_>

I know, right? I had to drop about 25% of my Tears to speed up my quest for a level 99 party. Otherwise, you have 10-15 second sequences to tell you that you had to drop the item.

Have a nice day.

o_O ..... please tell me there is a hard mode!!!!!

wow GS DD's story is confusing, easy, and short...... I wan't my money back....

But there better be a hard mode!

QuoteI wan't my money back....

Did i actually read that right? if i did .... you are in big trouble young man ><


Hmmm i think i will need to put level 99 party on my *what to do* list for the second play-through.

And as far as we know .... no hard mode ... yet >< Although it will probably be the first hack that will come for the game.

O and my comment of (I want my money back was a joke)
I am still playing it but i am a little disappointed in some of the game play...

QuoteO and my comment of (I want my money back was a joke)

This saved you  :happy:

Well you are not the only one that was disappointed in the game .... although i must say ... I was not ..... the game worth its money and that's a given ><

I have completed it
Needed to find a charger...DS ran out of batteries just before the final boss :fury:

My brother got to the end before me and old me about the 100% Water of Life drops...
Anyone else think that you 'learn' Megiddo waaay to fast? The most powerful unleash and you get it within 5 battles or so, maybe that's just 'cause I set all my other characters to defend while defeating Tua warriors using basic attacks with Matthew.

I didn't need to grind throughout the entire game
All i did at the end was continuously hit using summons and the Sol Blade. Beat him in about 10 turns :sad:
My party at final battle: Matthew Karis Eoleo Sveta   Himi Amiti Tyrell Rief

Well, it is actually kinda hard if you never use summons you know... Anyway, the Tua Warriors have a 100% drop rate?! I always thought I was just extremely lucky....

Yeah, their drop-rate borders on obscene. I had to drop nearly 30% of them to speed up my quest for my 99 party.

Have a nice day.

Just beat the game. Final boss was worse than Doom Dragon. I also hate how many times I had to revive Sveta. Stupid instant-death effects. First, Blados auto-KO'd her with Punish, then she was auto-killed twice by the Chaos Chimera. Oh, and the Chaos Chimera auto-killed Eoleo too. Those are the only times I've EVER had a party member die in Dark Dawn. Yeah, instant death is cheap.

In regards to unleashes, Phaeton's Blade stronger than the Tisiphone Edge. Combat Dance, Double Attack and Vorpal Slash have nothing on Centurion. Sol Blade has that as its LOWEST level unleash. Yeah. And then there's Megiddo. Broken as all hell. 900+ damage, anyone?

My question is: Why do Sol Blade wielders learn Centurion before they learn Purgatory? Purgatory does, like, half the damage of Centurion! Oh, sure, it has a sleep effect. That's nothing compared to a 300 damage difference!

QuoteAnd then there's Megiddo. Broken as all hell. 900+ damage, anyone?

1050+ damage for me, bordering 1200. I have to be honest when I say that Camelot focused on possible strategies instead of normal gameplay. I mean, I can kill Chalis, Blados, and Chaos Hound while doing nothing more than attacking with each party member. Nobody dies anymore, at least not until Chaos Chimera (who actually does require a bit of strategy if I don't want to butcher it with summons).

Have a nice day.

Well, I just have to say one thing. You don't have to grind in this game, just fighting normally and never fleeing is grinding... I mean, gaining exp is so easy,  and talk about the late boss not attacking twince a turn do not help the difficulté.

Sveta does bloody murder to Star Magician in beast form.

Oh, and I just gained three levels with everyone except Karis when I beat him. (Karis gained 2). Dead serious.

I'm at the place with the horosope room thingers. (Termanology ftw lol) I have not had to use a single summon yet. The mosters are no challange, and the only thing that has eluded me so far was the room with the two zol stones that you're supposed to put in these slots on the wall. I swear I found that room a billion and one times when I didn't have the queen's stone, but I just couldn't remember where it was after I got the stone, so I gave up.

So far, the first two games were deffinately far supperior. I still can't wrap my head over riding giant blue clouds over mountains.

I did finally find a puzzle I can't do though. After just a few hours (10 hours maybe?) I arrived at the puzzle in that horroscope place where you have to move the three statues through all the squares and drop them where they belong. For the very life of me, I can't figure it out. Pathetic, I know, but it's taken 5 hours away from me.

And, even though the third game isnt as good as the other two, I can deffinately say I liked it so far. I hate Karis (something about GREEN HAIR) and the clones were creeoy at first, but the 3D animation actually did the game some justice in the battle mode. It made me wanna fight things.

I hate Apollo Sanctum because there's no enemies there! Also, I missed whatever that axe was that you find there. :(

Anyway, as for the answer to your puzzle problem: Insight. Use Amiti's Insight Psynergy. You will suddenly think that it is the most awesome Psynergy in all of Golden Sun when you use it.

... balls. The ONE THING i dont think of. how come i only get caught by the obvious stuff? oi. thanks Jamie. i use that all the time, and i forgot to use it this time. time for me to plug in for another marathon.

It's not that easy. One guy who'd been doing a Let's Play took, what, an hour and two Let's Play episodes on that puzzle? Then he went and looked it up. And then he decided that he was a moron.

Oh yeah, and there was that one with the Zol stones you have to shove around. That one took him three Let's Play episodes and, like five hours before he figured it out.

XD

the zol stone one my bro figured out, i dont care for that puzzle. i can do it, but i dont like them. other than that, i wasnt having any trouble, so i should probably breeze through it now. how long did it take you to beat the game? im on my first day and havent beaten it yet, so i wondered if im slow?

Eh, took me about 27 hours to make it to the final boss. But then there's the sidequests...

Oh, and I missed a few Djinn. Specifically, 1 Mars, 2 Mercury, 2 Jupiter.

i think i missed a jupiter already... is there a list somewhere i can use to see what i missed? i might have to look at it.

27 hours... ive done 10 hours of gameplay plus 5 hours being lost on that one stinking puzzle, so about 15 altogether. that gives me another 12 hours then. 24 hours before im officially calling myself an idiot. woot~

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ds/960545-golden-sun-dark-dawn/faqs/61205 Here you go. Just as a little tip, you can return to the Ayuthay/Kaocho region later in the game, but there are some things that you will have missed if you did not get them beforehand.

As for missing things, I remember when I first missed Zagan. I kind of felt silly after that.

Have a nice day.

thanks. i knew id return because of amiti. so... which one was zagan? i dont remember if i met him

Remember when you meet Kraden and Reif for the first time? Before that whole dungeon area, and before Blados blocks your entrance (which you can not go back through). There is an area near the Lumberjack-type locations (in fact, I think it even has a gondola).

Have a nice day.

Carver's Lumberyard, I believe it was called. There's also a Djinni there, but for that you have to enter from Carver's Camp.

... you MISSED that place, Sala? o.o; wow. i almost missed that first shrine that gives ya a special summon that needs more than one type of djinni, but i think thats about it.

Sort of. I walked in, decided to come back for it because I wanted to continue with the plot... and then Blados sealed me on the other side. I have to say, I certainly enjoyed killing him near the end.

Have a nice day.

Blados used Punish! *ziff* "HO!" *ziff, ziff ziff, ziff SMASH!*

Anyone else think that Ku-Tsung, Ku-Embra, and Blados' weapons should be available for players to use? I mean, they have all sorts of awesome skills and stuff! I especially like Blados' Punish and Ku-Tsung's Cyclone Slash. Zealous Fury was meh, basically the same as Combat Dance, and I never actually got to see Ku-Tsung's Dragon Spark. Needless to say, next playthrough, I'm killing Ku-Embra first.

aww, poor sala~

i killed the generals too fast, i didnt get to see any of their stuff. it kinda sucked...

Ku-Embra has one attack I kinda like the concept of: It deals increased damage, but the user takes half the damage dealt. It would've made the boss battle much more interesting, if only it did more damage. Like, in the 200 range would be good.

oh cool o.o yeah, id dig that.

The generals were actually pretty hard for me. I disliked battling, so I ended up running away a lot, leaving me pretty under leveled when it came time to fight them. I still managed to win though.

When it comes to character preference, I keep Amiti, Matthew, Karis and Eoleo in my party all as attackers. I didn't even bother with the other characters really...

oh god... Sveta just left with all my healing stuff. UGH. whatevs.

i havent seen all the characters yet, so so far its Mathew and Amiti that i like, everyone else is meh. even Sveta is meh, she just happens to be a little better than the others. Karis is the only one i hate so far. in all the games, so far, karis just... i think all the designers need eye surgery.
i miss how, back in the first two games, ALL the characters were cool.

I think the designers of Matthew need eye surgery. And what happened to all the traditional Valean armour? Why is Matthew wearing modern clothing? Karis, Tyrell and Rief are fine, but MATTHEW IS WEARING MODERN CLOTHING. ZOMGWTFBBQ.

Better than Isaac's trench-coat. It does look cool, but I would definitely have liked to see him with armour that is somewhat similar to what he had before. I mean, if it were not for the name and hair colour, who is to say that he would look like Isaac at all?

Styles certainly have changed in 30 years. I am also a bit curious about Karis' green hair, since she seems to be the first with green hair in the whole series (if memory serves me correctly).

Have a nice day.

Jamie's admit it ... his clothes are cool .... and like Sala said ... i like it more than Isaac's new coat ......

Karis is cool too .... better than Sveta and beat Sheba/Ivan anytime :) that's my opinion though ....

Did you hear me right? I said I hate Matthew's outfit. He's wearing MODERN CLOTHING, when this is Golden Sun! What happened to the old Valean style of armour? You know, like Jenna and Isaac and Garet wear in the first two games? Also, Isaac's trenchcoat is cool.

And honestly, Sala, it's quite easy to tell that he's still Isaac, since it's basically just the same face he had in the first two games with a beard. If you look at his portrait, his face is practically the same, especially the eyes. The only real difference is the hairstyle and the beard. lolz.

Actually it sounded more like you where just saying that it should be normal Armor rather than modern clothing ... but now you said it so we all know.

QuoteIsaac's trenchcoat is cool.

Yes but the coat is also modern clothing if i might say, since armor does not involve coats ....

I found it really weird just how tall Matthew was, after Isaac only being moderately tall (and looking smaller due to his stance).
But seriously, he towers over everyone else in the party.

Isaac's coat was the first thing I noticed about him when I saw him in Dark Dawn, right after his beard.
I don't really like the chops beard, but Garet's moustache is hilarious LOL.

I know, right? It reminds me of a certain someone, though the joke will not be funny if I keep mentioning the name.

Also, we should have had the ability to name Isaac and co., since they were technically usable in the first two games. It would allow players to give them the same names that might have been used in the prequels.

Have a nice day.

okay, i only went through the training grounds a few times (i restarted the game) and everyone is around level 9... is it just me, or is leveling up in the third game here rediculously more easy than leveling up in the first Golden Sun?

It IS a lot easier. You can easily over-level your party, and reaching level 99 isn't that hard ><

Yeah, easily an hour to reach level 76 from 60, or even 90-99. Tua Warriors give the most experience, of any common enemy, yet they are far from the most difficult.

Actually, it might be those dragons... either Grand or Gaia Dragons, I think. But unlike Tua Warriors, you never get more than one in a single battle (and they are certainly the hardest common enemy).

Have a nice day.

no wonder why it wasnt hard to kill everything that stood in my path...


also, i JUST found out that there can sometimes be items under those flowers that fly when you hit them with wind. i stupideded. ffft.

Quote from: RTGreece21 on 02, January, 2011, 10:54:18 PM
i JUST found out that there can sometimes be items under those flowers that fly when you hit them with wind.

I only used wind on the flowers that were necessary to my adventure.
So, infact, I hadn't known about the until now. Good find!  :happy:

I knew about items being under the flowers for ages, because there was a seemingly pointless patch which I used Whirlwind on just to check, and found a nut I think. But unfortunately, it's never anything better than a nut and is really a complete waste of time.
On the other hand, there's practically a stat boosting item hidden in a pot or something in every city, and a lot of areas (which, considering the frequency of cities, means a heck of a lot of stat boosting items...)

Yeah, the number of stat boosting items is just ridiculous. Feels like I went through twice as many as I did in the first two games...

Definitely too many. It would make sense if we had access to every continent, but the game was too short to require that many.

As for the amount of dialogue, did anyone else notice that every party member has to say something in almost every cutscene? Characters almost always say something just for the sake of saying it. More often than not, each person must say something before another character can continue. In the first two, not everyone had to say something during cutscene. Instead of being: Garet, Kraden, Jenna, Kraden, Jenna, Ivan, Jenna, Mia, it ends up being Karis, Tyrell, Rief, Sveta, Amiti, Eoleo, Himi, Kairs, Tyrell, Sveta, Amiti, Rief... (and we can tell that Eoleo and Himi definitely have nothing important to say at times, whereas the other characters can easily pretend to care).

A good example of this would include the entrance of Arcanus, Chalis, and Blados on top of Apollo Sanctum. Notice how each character says something one by one before the NPCs continue?

Have a nice day.

That's actually an IMPROVEMENT over the previous games. Kraden had FAR too much to say in GS2, and Mia, Piers, and Ivan too little.

Himi rarely says anything interesting, but Eoleo is funny. Whatever he says is usually hilarious. When Arcanus appears at the end of the game, everyone else is like "What is he doing here?", "Arcanus!", "Go die somewhere quietly", and "This is not possible". Eoleo says "What? Who?". But Mathew kinda owns them all by swearing.

Depending on when it is used. It would be nice if they could mix it up a bit, instead of giving them all a designated order in which to say their lines.

You are right though, Matthew's censored word was very hilarious.

Have a nice day.

back in the other games, id use all the stat boosters on my fav character. this time, i thought "hold on a sec, isnt this a bit much?" and im now using some on other characters as well because theres just too many. that many boosters would be okay of the enemies were crazy strong and you needed to train just to be able to travel halfway to the next city, but the crazy amount of them isnt needed in Dark Dawn. its too easy with or without them, and you can easily reach level 12 just by fighting the wooden and cardboard dragons at the training grounds.

wow i am at level 47 and i can't beat the final boss ( so is the curse i have told many of you i have ) but i have beat every other boss except the final boss.

DOES ANY ONE FIND THAT WEIRD?

this happens to me with almost every game i have ever got!

It is weird ... since i won at level 42 >< and now I'm at my second play-through planning to find everything and finish all optional bosses and quests.

And i like Matthew's swearing XD he owned them all -.-

sorry but this post has hate for GS DD in it and i don't want hate mail so read it if you want.
[spoiler]well i just beat the final boss at level 49 (wtf) in 2 turns (WTF!!!!!).

ALSO wtf!!! the ending and wtf, the questions left unanswered and WT freaking F, is with Camalot!!!!!!

I know i will get so much hate for this (because of this site but) THIS GOLDEN SUN GAME TOTALLY @#$%&*! SUCKS!!! (compared to the others)

I diss-like the game because:
#1. bad story line.
#2. Bad Character choice and personality.
#3. bad level/story design (Most of the time it is unclear what to do)
#4. so many questions left unanswered (and some will never be answered (like wtf are the beast men a          .                                                   different color at the end????))
#5. to many people die with in an hour of game play.
#6. wtf is with the psyenergy changes (names and how you can learn them)
#7. How could they put such a strong cliff hanger!!!

#8. WHY IS THE FINAL BOSS NOT A DRAGON (DRAGONS ARE BAD @#$ (AND YOU CAN'T BEAT BAD @#$)
[/spoiler]

but really this game need more dragons (ooo they need a party member that is part dragon!)

DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS
WE NEEDZ MORE OF THEMZ!!!!

I seriously doubt you beat it in 2 turns... that sounds impossible!!
Also it left unanswered questions to make room for a possible sequel.

Dragons are freaking awesome, but ANOTHER dragon bossfight? I think ending every game with a dragon gets a bit lame...
And I thought one of the biggest cons in the game was that it was too obvious what to do most of the time...

Quotesorry but this post has hate for GS DD in it and i don't want hate mail so read it if you want.

Well you won't get hate mails but you will probably be punished for this XD.

I have to say ... i don't believe you when you say you beat the final boss in 2 turn .... that's a LIE (sorry for saying that). Or you meant he beat you in 2 turns ><
Oh and i strongly disagree with you, it has nice story line, characters are well done (yes they have there flaws) but i actually like most of them ... save for two (Himi and Amiti). And like Frog said .... unanswered questions make a room for a sequel .... which i am sure that everyone here wants.

Just because the first two games had dragons as final bosses it does not mean that's a MUST ...... I actually think that his final boss .... fits in really well ..... I mean he got the silent main character to talk !!!!!!!!! well swear but still that is something ><.

Quotewtf is with the psyenergy changes

As far as i remember ... only two where changed .... Frost series and Nova series, i don't really care about frost the new name is ok with me, and changing Nova was a wise decision .... i mean the first two games had two psynergies by the name of Blast ... the rest of the psynergy line is different but this change was necessary (that's what i think anyway).

In my opinion, a dragon is not needed as much as some type of fusion between two or more people (which even then isn't necessary). As for killing the final boss in two turns, it is possible if you just summon rush him (because I did it in like 2-3 turns when I tried it).

QuoteAnd I thought one of the biggest cons in the game was that it was too obvious what to do most of the time...

Insight only made it worse. That, and I only needed the Umbra map for one piece of the gear. I managed to locate three of them before figuring out how to rescue the two kids from the outpost. Oh yeah...

Loophole anyone? Rescue the kids before going to Tonfon for the first time, and the emperor knows you. Leave and re-enter, and then he meets you for the first time (if I recall correctly).

Have a nice day.

Ugh I completely forgot about insight... as far as pointlessly cheap psynergy goes it takes the cake.
What ever happened to using your brain a little and trying out different psynergy in a dungeon, it's not like the puzzles were ever that hard... and every use of insight seemed pretty much pointless.

I actually found all the umbra gear locations without the map... though I died trying to get one, and ended up getting the map while looking for new equipment before heading out again.

Insight didn't help much really because most of the time it would point out the obvious. >_o

 zman9000 , said he suck, I was level 50 when I fought the last boss, I had a panic attack vs the semi-last boss, and I lost on the last boss, I just came back and was lv 57 and I destroyed everything.


Man, You really don't need to grind in this game.

OK it took me 13 hours to find out what to do after i got the umbra gear.
and don't get me started on how long it took me to find the umbra map!

also what i meant i beat the final boss was:

turn 1: i use crystal dragon (x2), judgement, meteor. my party was wiped out (also the boss did not use any defense moves.)

turn 2: (party switch) i use crystal dragon (x2), judgement, meteor. my party was left with 2 members and boss is dead. (also the boss did not use any defense moves.)

and the levels for my party members are (47 for party 2) and (48 for party 1).

I feel like I should state my opinion on some of the things that you said. I understand that they are a part of your opinion, but I might as well add some things.

Quote#1. bad story line.
#2. Bad Character choice and personality.
#3. bad level/story design (Most of the time it is unclear what to do)
#4. so many questions left unanswered (and some will never be answered (like wtf are the beast men a different color at the end????))
#5. to many people die with in an hour of game play.
#6. wtf is with the psyenergy changes (names and how you can learn them)

1. It depends on how you look at it. Personally, I am not a big fan of "we have to stop this, but we need to focus on something else first" events. They can be interesting, but it could also have been executed differently.
2. I kind of like some of them. Besides, character development was not advanced in the first two games, but they overdid it in this one. That, and we ended up with stereotypical characters, like Amiti and Himi.
3. I loved the level designs and liked most of the story. However, I found the game too easy and obvious most of the time (and for the one or two harder parts, I had access to Insight to make it even easier).
4. New sequel hopefully. As for the Beastmen, that is because they mostly became Light Adepts (the light from Apollo Sanctum was concentrated in Belinsk, imbuing its citizens with Light). Personally, I think that Alex met the secretive Umbra Clan when he was buried with Mt. Aleph at the end of The Lost Age.
5. I agree with this one actually, though a few deaths would have been okay. Personally, I hated Kaocho and Champa because of all of the mostly useless corpses just strewn about in random places. "I wanted to come back for my things by myself, because I need to prove that I have insurance!"
6. There aren't many that I noticed. The Frost line still exists, it is just that you do not have access to it anymore. I kind of miss Frost, but I am guessing that Rief's sister knows it.

Have a nice day.

Himi is amazing. Revive with no Djinn FTW! If it weren't for that and Sveta's Pack Defence, I would've died SO much earlier. (BTW, I'm in the middle of a battle against Dullahan.)

Yeah, basically I started a battle against Dullahan at about 12:00 at night, and ended up pausing the game at 3:00 AM to go to sleep. I still haven't finished that battle.

So far, I've used 6 waters of life, countless Revive spells, and have spammed Chasm and Bark for all they're worth. Except when I have Sveta go Beastform for Pack Defence. Everyone manages to be useful. Even Tyrell, because he has some revival Djinn.

Yeah, I'm attempting a non-summon-rushbattle against Dullahan. At level 50.

Sveta must have died more times than anyone except maybe Karis. And most of those times were while she was in Beast Form. So, you may be asking, how does Sveta manage to get killed in Beast Form? Easy: Condemn and Charon. Instant Death is WAY cheap against Sveta.

Also, for those of you complaining that Psynergy is useless in Dark Dawn, two words: Mountain Roc. Oh, and another word: Dullahan.

Ooh, Dullahan is fun! Of course, he is too easy to kill if you Summon rush. Good luck with this battle, and I hope you get the Extra Terrestrial Iris soon (you will understand why I say this if you watch her sumon).

Oh yeah, I have some advice for anyone who can get Zol Stones. Whatever you do, try your best to get the rings, named Zol Rings I think. Agility multiplier 1.8x. I gave one to Karis, and she is definitely one of my best characters because of it. Also, if you use Rief as a healer, you can decide to make him faster if you want.

Have a nice day.

Actually, I got my first Zol Ring in Passaj. When you get the Alchemy Forge up and running with the Sol Mask, push the conduits into place and talk to the weapon shopkeep. He'll give you a Zol Ring. Then you can save your Quality Zol for the Verdant Sword, Air Bangle (For Karis) and Hover Greaves.

Fun fact: Eoleo + Zol Ring < Matthew + Hover Greaves.

...

Wah! I wish I knew this, thanks for the info. Do you think it is too late to go back (since you technically have access to that town)?

I forget, what does the bangle do again?

Have a nice day.

Yeah. Once the Grave Eclipse hits, the weapon shop in Passaj is no longer operational. But you can get a Venus Djinni there if you go back during the Grave Eclipse.

The Air Bangle increases Defence by 39, and increases Wind power.

Aw, that stinks. Oh well, thanks for reminding me.

Oh yeah, I remember it now. I think I sold most of mine though. Come to think of it, I have sold almost all of my forged items. I have to say, I like having Obaba make things with her forge. I just wish that Chaucha were in the game.

Have a nice day.

holy @#$% Dullahan augh

Seriously, I was not prepared for him. Well, it terms of equipment and Djinn layout, yes. But the difficulty difference between him and the other superbosses is staggering! I probably went for over an hour and a half before finally losing the battle. First time my whole party goes down...

And just to clarify, I've gone through this whole game without summon rushing, including the other superbosses and final boss, and while I may do it just to beat him once, I WILL beat him with without at least once.

Wonder why you say he is difficult without summon rush ..... non died in my party when i fought him ... but again i was level 45 and i'm not sure what level is recommended to fight him >< and yes the battle took me forever ><

Oh i fought him using, Matthew, Tyrell, Karis and Eoleo XD

Might have been luck. Charon can sometimes kill characters in one hit.

Yeah, I'm a murderous monster D: ought to watch out...

QuoteYeah, I'm a murderous monster D: ought to watch out...

Hehehe, now i know why you chose that name ... and like i said you just HAVE to get the Charon Badge  :Sweat:

And yes maybe ... i will fight him again since I'm on my second play through and i want to do everything i can do in the game ^_^

Final boss is stupidly powerful. It's like: smashes everyone for a billion damage, smashes everyone for a billion damage and insta-kills Eoleo, smashes everyone for a billion damage. Next turn: Reduces incoming damage by 60%, smashes everyone for a billion damage and insta-kills Eoleo, smashes everyone for a billion damage. Next turn: smashes everyone for a billion damage, Djinn Blasts Sveta and smashes everyone for a billion damage.

It's insane.

And no, I'm not joking about the whole "insta-kills Eoleo" thing. He died at least 3 times from Instant Death effects that battle. Oh, and Matthew died once from that as well.

Oh, and on Dullahan things finally went downhill when Charon instant-killed two people with one shot. And then Dullahan used Djinn Storm, so I only had one reviver.

Final boss was the only decent fight on the main storyline. Take away djinn blast and one of its extra turns, and it's more or less what I was hoping for from standard bosses. I liked that its summon-type move (shadow clash/shadow crash) was actually sort of a breather move, compared to retribution (which killed rief - and only rief - three times in my fight with it), or djinn blast (hit karis early on and hit tyrell near the end). But as long as you keep yourself buffed, it's actually not too hard. Truth is, it was the only boss in the game that made me afraid that I would run out of PP - I had like 60 left on tyrell and 80-90 on karis when the fight ended (rief had 13 pp regen, so he was fine, and the only psynergy I used with matt was revive). It's also the only boss to have survived through four summons; I was quite pleased on the final turn when it survived my boreas summon (my fourth summon that fight) and let me finish it off with judgment. I actually thought it could've been a little harder, but looking at everything else, it's really the only storyline boss they did right. Well, they didn't do it completely right... having the ability to heal and mess with your items and djinn between the two fights was kinda dumb.

Of course, it's not like there were even that many bosses in the game, anyway.

Tutorial boss (whatever its name was) -> dim dragon -> dim dragon plus (optional) -> trio of tuaparang -> kaocho generals -> sand prince -> ice queen -> sludge -> roc -> duo -> duo+monster -> final boss

So there's 11 storyline bosses (not including the dim dragon plus), which... I guess when you think about it isn't so bad, but most of the battles weren't memorable or impressive at all. I actually forgot all about the kaocho generals, sludge, and the roc until I went to go make this list, and I nearly forgot the trio of tuaparang soldiers you had to fight near the beginning. I probably wouldn't have even remembered the ice queen+sand prince if it weren't for the ice queen randomly landing some psynergy on me that dealt a ton of damage, but I killed her off the very next turn and I remember thinking that if she had lived a little longer, it might've been a halfway decent fight. The dim dragon wasn't difficult by any means, but it was memorable if only because it was so silly. Sludge was just pathetic, and I was expecting the roc to put up a much better fight than it did. Also, I think I would've been a lot more impressed by the duo had the second fight with them been the first, instead. In the first fight, they rely too much on their items instead of their EPAs, which made them a joke. Well, they still used too many items in the second fight, too (the second to last boss using illusion perfume... what?), but they seemed to use their EPAs more.

Really, with fights like those, I was at least expecting for there to be a hard mode after beating the game, that might make the battles somewhat worthwhile... well, I do still have the bonus bosses to look forward to.

Quote from: Dark GrieverWonder why you say he is difficult without summon rush ..... non died in my party when i fought him ... but again i was level 45 and i'm not sure what level is recommended to fight him >< and yes the battle took me forever ><

...how did you manage to stay so low? Did you take him on before the final boss and any of the other bonus bosses? I can't imagine how you stayed that low for him otherwise. Like, I seriously had trouble not gaining levels like crazy in this game. The dark monsters (and in the final area, the tua warriors) give so much experience, it's hard to not gain levels rapidly. Even the non-dark monsters on some of the islands gave ridiculous amounts of experience. I started spamming avoid when I hit lv40 or so, and I still ended up getting to lv47 for the final boss (lv48 after the final boss).

---

Quote from: zman9000 on 04, January, 2011, 02:29:58 AM
I diss-like the game because:
#1. bad story line.
#2. Bad Character choice and personality.
#3. bad level/story design (Most of the time it is unclear what to do)

Uh... the storyline this time was actually very good imo. I give it an A-, and it only gets that low because they just did a massive info dump with himi at the end, and himi had absolutely zero characterization other than as a vessel to tell you where to go.

Most of the characters were fairly well-done imo, although at some points I thought they were characterized kinda strangely. Like, in the beginning, we're told that karis is clever, but she never really shows it until about halfway through the game. I initially found tyrell kinda annoying the way he couldn't restrain himself a lot of the time in the beginning, but over time he grew as a character. Rief... didn't really leave much of an impression on me either way, but he also developed more of a personality over time. Then amiti starts off awesome, but he quickly falls when you encounter briggs... he gets a bit better after he learns that not everything is black and white, though it's not enough to raise him back up to where he once was. Svetta was awesome from the beginning, and I don't know how anyone could say she was anything other than awesome for the entirety of the game. Eoleo is eoleo - his personality fit him nicely, I thought. Then himi... I think she got maybe three lines of dialogue throughout the whole story that weren't part of an info dump. Of all the characters in the game (both the PCs and the NPCs), the only one that I thought was truly atrocious was himi. The others were all either on par or above. There might've been a couple NPCs that could've received some better characterization, too, but I don't recall them off the top of my head, so it obviously wasn't enough to reduce the enjoyment of the story. Truly, the storytelling in dark dawn is far above and beyond what the first two games provided.

I thought it was very clear where to go most of the time. The first time I felt like I even had a choice about where to go was when I got to morgal after crossing craggy peak, but even then, you can't actually do anything, and where you need to go is still very straightforward. Once you get the ship, you have a fair amount of freedom about where to go, but you should still be able to find where to go very very easily. Warrior's hill is right by where you exit, so it should be the first place you end up exploring. From there, you only have a couple options on where to sail to, and it shouldn't take long to figure out that there's something at yamata. The town by warrior's hill, yamata, champa, and tonfon are the only towns/cities you can even get to from the eastern sea, and finding warrior's hill and finding yamata are all you have to do to be told exactly what you need to know in order to progress the storyline.

Quote#4. so many questions left unanswered (and some will never be answered (like wtf are the beast men a different color at the end????))
#7. How could they put such a strong cliff hanger!!!

The unanswered questions means that there will be a second game. They put such a strong cliffhanger because they wanted for there to be anticipation for the next game; there should be no doubt in anyone's minds that there will be a sequel to dark dawn. Just be glad that we're getting a sequel. Also, the beastmen changed color because of the power of the apollo lens: the light psynergy permeated their bodies and empowered them. If you would just go talk to people around town, you would be able to figure that much out with ease.

Quote#5. to many people die with in an hour of game play.

What. You're complaining that people die? Really? It took some serious balls to do what they did, and I commend them for it. They unleashed a horrible terror upon the world, and these are the consequences of it. If no one died, there wouldn't be any meaning behind it. The grave eclipse killed scores of people. It is an evil power. Taking that leap and actually killing off characters firmly places GSDD in the gray area. The first two games could've been seen as being much closer to the light end of the light vs dark spectrum, but GSDD crosses over to the darker side of storytelling when the eclipse happens. It's not as dark as some stories, and I still think it's merely in a gray area now, which is a good place for it and is where it will most likely stay. To bring this back around to your complaint, you can't maintain a gray area unless you cross into the darkness sometimes, and that's precisely what happened when the eclipse hit. Death is a natural consequence of the events in the game. Go play pokemon if you want a game where no one ever dies.

Quote#6. wtf is with the psyenergy changes (names and how you can learn them)

I wasn't a huge fan of the change of frost to cold snap, either, but it makes sense given the plot. Actually, my biggest complaint in regard to cold snap is that the sound it makes when the ice pillar forms is no where near as satisfying as frost was. The only other psynergy that got a name change to my knowledge is blast -> starblast, which really... it needed to be done. Having two different blast psynergies that are parts of different lines was just a bad design decision in the first place, so I fail to see how that could be considered anything other than an improvement.

Quote#8. WHY IS THE FINAL BOSS NOT A DRAGON (DRAGONS ARE BAD @#$ (AND YOU CAN'T BEAT BAD @#$)

I was a bit surprised that the final boss wasn't a dragon, myself, but hey, at least we got a chimaera. Tbh, I think I would've been disappointed either way - if the final boss was or was not a dragon. On the one hand, it's tradition, but on the other... dragons get old after a while. So in light of that, I'm quite fine with the final boss they chose.

Quotebut really this game need more dragons (ooo they need a party member that is part dragon!)

DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS
WE NEEDZ MORE OF THEMZ!!!!

Dumbass.

The Mountain Roc could've been a seriously amazing boss. The graphics are amazing, its attacks are badass, and that good fun stuff. The thing that wrecked it? Not enough turns. Give that boss 1 more turn and more HP, and it would be the most awesome boss in the game. Oh, and replace Tempest with Tornado, so it can't instant-death the party with two Tempests in a row.

Another thing I'm unhappy with? The item selection in the game. The Khiren water and ginseng added some nice touches, but Kaocho should've sold gunpowder bombs in their item shop. Otherwise, we have the fridge logic of "How do those two generals get them if they aren't sold anywhere? And why can't you find them randomly hidden in the castle?" Access to firecrackers at some point would've been nice as well.

Honestly? Final boss was what I wanted to see out of those two Generals. Only with less HP and fewer turns. The generals could've also been a really fun fight, if only they'd been faster, had higher Defence and stronger attacks. And replace those dumb rice rations and plump dumplings with vials, or maybe potions.

That's really weird, I found the last boss the only challenging fight through out the game.
Hopefully he's not one of those bosses that level up when you level up, if you catch my drift.
I really can't help you much more than this, sorry.  :sad:

Best of luck :!:

That sounds bizzare...
As for the Tua warriors though, not sure about 20k exp but they do give a CRAPLOAD of experience normally.
I gained 10 or so levels just making my way to the final boss!

QuoteBy the way, about the leveling on the spawns in the Sanctum...  Is it that broken for you guys?  I leveled up at least once per character on two of the guys.  Over 20k EXP per fight.  I went from level 45 to level 70 in an hour.

I think that was intentional, as you get over 10k for each individual Tua Warrior, and they never show up alone. In fact, this is even worse than Crossbone Isle (where the strongest random monster in the game gives you the same amount as a single Tua Warrior, but is actually strong). On the positive side, it took a few hours for my team to level from 50 to 99 while fighting them.

So I have now beaten dark dawn in its entirety. Dullahan was the same as always. I went in with the only strategy I used being "go into the fight with all djinn on standby then spam summons until one of you die." Needless to say, it worked. No crucible. No djinn storm. No charon. I'll probably rematch him with a proper strategy at some later date, but right now I'm just kinda underwhelmed. At least the ancient devil was fun (that's its real name btw).

And actually, great dragons only give around 11k. Tua warriors give 13-14k each. Those are both without djinn killing.

@Spirit of the Dawn: Shadow Clash or Retribution? Shadow Clash is that summon-type move he has, where he poofs upwards and then beams of darkness rain from the sky. Retribution is the massive sword swing that deals instant death on occasion. Shadow Clash should be doing 350+ damage. Retribution should be hitting 100+ or causing instant death.

@leaf: Yeah, Dullahan always uses Element Swap before using Charon or Crucible; he'll use Crucible if you have Djinn on standby, or Charon if you don't.

Quote from: Spirit of the Dawn on 19, January, 2011, 10:00:09 PM
Wow.

I just realized.

The copy of the game that I have?

It's glitched.

Bad.

I fought the last boss almost 20 times in a row, dying every time, even though I trained on the guys that spawn in the Apollo Sanctum everytime I died until I was level 70.  More on that in a moment.  First, let me tell you about this boss...

The first fight was insanely easy.  I lost my first party due to poor planning, but I pulled it off with a summon rush by the second party.  Insta-kill.

The second fight started off good, summon rush of Eclipse four times.  Did over 1.5k damage each time.  Pretty good right?  Then, out of NO-WHERE, he uses that Shadow Clash thing.  Insta-kills my WHOLE F**KING PARTY.  I was at full health.  I was stunned.  So, I shut it off, re-loaded, and trained for 10 levels on the Sanctum's spawns.  Fought it again, killing the first fight in 5 turns clean.  Second fight: first turn, insta-killed my whole first party.  Again.  I shut it off AGAIN.  Re-loaded.  Trained for 20 LEVELS, trying after every 3 levels.  I am now level 70, average.  He still insta-kills me with Shadow Clash in the first two turns.  I looked up his stats online.  He should have DIED with my summon rushes that I did, what with hitting him with an Eclipse x4 rush, followed by a 2-summon rush of Charon and Iris.  He insta-kills my second party.  My first party then gets picked off one-by-one by NORMAL ATTACKS.  He used BASIC MELEE attacks to INSTA-KILL each party member.  And that's not the strangest part.  I found out that there's a pattern that he follows

- Basic melee in the first round, no matter what, (with no insta-kill, mind you).

- Insta-kill with Shadow Clash, second round, without fail.

- Going last on the third round, he'll insta-kill my whole party -- he always goes last from this point on.

- He then picks off my Iris-revived first party with melee attacks in the fourth and fifth rounds, randomly selecting the order in which he attacks.

Uh...  Wow?

I sold it to a friend who collects glitchy carts for every platform for $200.  But I'm still wierded out by it.

By the way, about the leveling on the spawns in the Sanctum...  Is it that broken for you guys?  I leveled up at least once per character on two of the guys.  Over 20k EXP per fight.  I went from level 45 to level 70 in an hour.

.  .  .

Uh, okay?

Anyway, what do you guys know about this?  Have any of you experienced glitches?

- 2br02b

That's what you get for summon rushing.  That is exactly why people say do not do it.  It's not a glitch.  You weakened the HELL out of your characters by doing that, and yes, he could probably one shot you since his retribution skill has a chance to insta-kill you.  Without the djinn to boost your luck, getting wtfpwned is a very large possibility.  Shadow Clash is also a summon-type deal, dealing base + HP Percentile damage.  Glitch?  No.  Bad strategy?  Yes.

The game becomes quite hard when you unset all your djinn.  My current inepts run is showing me this - the three scouts in the tunnel before you get Rief game me loads of trouble.  Late game bosses are going to be crazy hard.  That +40% to all stats and +80% to HP goes a long way.  And that's to say nothing about the tri-element classes, which have even better stats you'd be missing out on.

well i think it could still be a glitch because i set all my djinn for both party's and beat all the bosses in the game with summon rushing at level 47! i beat the final boss last at 47 all a round with:

first party eclipse, eclipse, crystal dragon, crystal dragon. boss normal attacks.
next turn,
first party all normal attacks. boss kills two members.
next turn,
party uses normal attacks. boss wipes them out.
party swap
next turn,
second party eclipse, eclipse, crystal dragon, crystal dragon. boss normal boss dies.

also in all the turns he never healed.

i tryed this two times the same way first time it failed because he healed but the second time he never healed.

At least he got $200 for it. Now go buy GSDD again. lol

Yeah, I doubt that's a glitch, summon rushing inheritly makes your characters very vulerable; if you don't have enough base speed, attack and defense to begin with you could really screw yourself over. Don't forget about the equipment too, makes a huge difference.

Indeed.  Well, he did sell a perfectly good game for a bit over 6.5 times what it's worth.  But yeah, noobish playing and lack of luck does not a glitch'd game make.

Never put all your djinn on standby before a boss fight, even though a first turn summon rush would do craptons of damage. You're leaving yourself vulnerable to a boss' really damaging attacks, the ones that knock the entire active party out if you don't have the stat bonuses that djinn give.

but i did it and i was fine. the only boss in the game i had trouble with was the final boss and it only took me two try's. i beat dulahan first time and had all djinn set. and the last boss only killed me after all the summons were used up and it was 2 turns after that.

also i hate cheat codes and he only ever insta-killed ecleo.

I KNOW! I was like: Why Eoleo? He doesn't even have the lowest Luck!

Worst psynergy growth, I know that for sure.  And yes, if he's on my team, worst luck too.  Main Team Mars adepts are Godspeed Ronins... and my builds tend to have them end up with only 1 Luck! XD

I can agree with that.

but i still think Jupiter adapts are still so under powered.

In the game Venus adapts are easily the most useful and most powerful all around BUT

In real life type physics (but there is still adapts ...) Jupiter would be the most bad @#$ adapt of all!

I mean come on! control over wind, time, electricity , weather, minds, see the future, and i also believe teleporting is in there to, also the new one I SEE DEAD PEOPLE AND I CAN READ THEIR MINDS thing.

:Garet: What do you mean Ivan is a bad @#$?

:Ivan: He means I am all powerful and have unbeatable moves.

:Garet: :Jenna: Wait? What does that make us?

:Felix: Third rate bad @#$?

:Isaac: ^_^

:Piers: :Mia: :(

If Sveta had an EPA in non-beastform, she would be the most useful character all-around.

Also, Tyrell has the worst Psynergy stat in his base class.

Umm just to be clear does EPA = Epic Psyenergy Attack?

Did any one else have trouble finding what to do after the umbra gear hunt (WITH OUT HELP)?
it took me 4 days to find the endless wall then 2 more to find the other orbs which i looked in my game guide to find (And i was trying to make it through the game with out using it!!!!)

I feel it was a little unclear what to do.

...Where's my hammer?  What did I JUST say to you in that PM?

Also, EPA = Elemental Physical Attack.  Personally, I'd call it Physical Psynergy, but the term had already been coined long before  I came to the scene.

You know, you wouldn't have that problem if you talked to people in-game. The hints are all there, from various sources, if you actually look. Uzume tells you about the orbs, you learn about the Endless Wall in Tonfon, and you're bound to find it anyway if you find all the Umbra Gear. One of the pieces is right there.

The only times I was unsure what to do were points in the game that were coded badly (the bomb in the mine, took me ages to get the right level for fireball to work, and the statue on Apollo cliffs which shoots out a hand, but refused to respond for the first 20 attempts I did.)

I never had any of those problems

i think Dark Dawn was far to easy, i mean i bought my game new just about a week or some days ago and i already defeated the last boss, have all Djinn and i am now searching for the only sum on tablets left Iris, Azul and Charon(if he Is present in this game). Only thing important that i didn't got in this game was the ninja sandals.

Dark Dawn WAS too easy. It's sad too, because they could easily have fixed that simply by boosting the Attack/Defence stats of the human bosses, and the Mountain Roc really needed a boosted Defence stat (especially in stone form, it needed an extra 40 points of Defence, as well as a second moveset), Grand Gaia and Tempest Psynergies, and one extra turn.

Easy answer is easy - you get too strong too fast, and the bad guys can't keep up.  This is what happens when you have a full cast of 8 in a game that only needs 4.  It's why we decided to have the CH be only with 4 characters.

A great way to have a challenge, however, is to just plain skip all optional djinn.  For even harder, do an inepts run.  The game gets really hard then.