How do you feel about them, and how do you feel they should be handled? One think to take note of in this debate is that different countries have different taxes, and some people may find some taxes more useful than other people would.
My argument in the cbox was basically: Modifying taxes alone is not the solution to our financial needs, but they need to be simplified. Everyone here who has a job can probably agree with me here - tax day is hell, just because of how confusing figuring it out is.
Since I honestly can't figure out what the hell you were talking about in the cbox, how about you explain how you suggest doing it, role? At first I thought you wanted to eliminate tax brackets entirely. Then I thought you wanted to make everyone pay a single flat tax. Now, the best I can tell, you want something very similar to the current system, but just scaling linearly, in... some method or another. Exactly what that means to you is still unclear to me. The fact that one of your biggest complaints is that the current system somehow punishes the rich is honestly the most confusing part of all of this, because when you complain about taxes being confusing, it seems like you want people to pay at their going rate for all of their income... and that certainly can't be what you want. That system would punish the rich for making more. What's more, looking at the 2010 tax brackets, the biggest jump was from 15% to 25% at $34,001, with taxes capping at 35%, at over 10x that amount. If anything, the current tax system hurts the middle class, not the rich.
Instead of being the crazy mess it is now, with all these variables and what not, I'd make it simple - a simple percentage based on income.
If you're not happy with a flat 10 or 12% of income, then I suggest this:
Ranges from 5% for the poorest of the poor to 15% for the riches of the rich. It'd be a LINEAR growth, not that crazy curved line we have now.
That's it. If you want to balance the budget, how about oh, I dunno, GETTING OUT OF ONE OF THOSE WARS OR SOMETHING?
I've heared, that the american government has 13,6 billion dollars debts. Good luck with you all. You'll need it.
Wow, you heard a bit wrong - that's TRILLION, three more digits at the end.
We're making sure we set at least one world record that no other country can beat.
Why would they WANT to beat that? I swear, the last couple administrations we've had are total idiots...
So basically, a 5% tax if you are in the 12-30k range, 10% for 30-70k range, and 15% for anything higher? Sounds interesting, is this for corporate or personal taxes?
New world records? I guess it does count as one. Then again, the US is currently the highest collector of corporate taxes, right? Role has a point, few other countries would want to beat that record.
Personal, I don't know how corporate works, only what actually affects me. Also, it'd not go up in jumps like that, that'd be punishing for reaching a new tax bracket. I said a simple line, not a crazy curve - the jumps make it a crazy curve. I figure every 5K a year you'll have a thing on a chart telling you how much you owe or something.
It's actually similar to how it works now, but without all the crazy rules and loopholes and legaleze.
I think Income Tax shouldn't even exist, since it was supposed to be a temporary measure for one of the World Wars! The fact that we still need the tax AFTER the war proves that the Canadian and American governments are doing something very, very wrong.
At least here is something we all agree on: Lower taxes.
(Yeah, I know I left... Sort of... I just like browse and stay quiet. :happy:)
Well, I personally believe that we should just have a flat percentage for income tax, and do away with much of the sales tax. Granted, not all of it, but right now we've got... what, 30% of the money we pay in gas going towards the government? That's like a buck twenty when it hits four gallons! It's ridiculous!
What they need to do is cut waaaaaaaay back on spending. Just taking more and more and more as they are is... it's gonna kill us. We can't afford their spending habit. And sadly, yes, those popular entitlement programs? They're gonna have to take a hit too. Like it or not, government is forcing us to tighten our belts. Had they not been so reckless, they probably wouldn't need cuts to medicare and medicaid. Restructuring sure, but not cuts... hell, even Obamacare cut money from medicare to fund it.
IMO, sales tax makes much more sense than income tax. That way, they tax based on what you buy. Food? That's a necessity, no taxes there. Gasoline? Shame on you, you should be riding your bike or taking public transit. Gasoline tax also ought to go strictly to improvements and innovation regarding clean energy sources and energy efficiency. Luxuries like video games and such are taxed, naturally.
Corporate tax cuts have been the bane of this country already, and thanks to ANOTHER FOUR YEARS OF HARPER GOVERNMENT, (I want to kill everyone who voted conservative. They're all morons and we don't need them in the gene pool anyway.) we're going to be having MORE of those, despite already having a structural deficit!
I know, right? It might be better than NDP, but still... really stupid. I think he mentioned something about tax cuts for families/parents that can easily have two or more salaries?
[spoiler="all morons"]Don't worry about killing them off though, removing the long-gun registry might help make that a bit easier, depending on where you live.[/spoiler]
In the end, everyone can probably agree on one thing: some taxes are good, most are bad and/or useless.
Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 06, June, 2011, 07:08:58 PM
IMO, sales tax makes much more sense than income tax. That way, they tax based on what you buy. Food? That's a necessity, no taxes there. Gasoline? Shame on you, you should be riding your bike or taking public transit. Gasoline tax also ought to go strictly to improvements and innovation regarding clean energy sources and energy efficiency. Luxuries like video games and such are taxed, naturally.
Corporate tax cuts have been the bane of this country already, and thanks to ANOTHER FOUR YEARS OF HARPER GOVERNMENT, (I want to kill everyone who voted conservative. They're all morons and we don't need them in the gene pool anyway.) we're going to be having MORE of those, despite already having a structural deficit!
...Shame on you? Are you ****ing serious? You do realize that most people commute to work, right? How about you get a freaking job and come back to me?
The thing is, Sales Tax, simply by how it works, is fuel for class warfare. It should still be there, yes, but in a more manageable form. Don't punish people just because it's not popular (gas, tabacco, alcohol), make it more regular, like most sales tax is. Taxes shouldn't be used as a moral punishment, EVER.
The gasoline tax is there to encourage CREATIVITY. Don't want to spend money on gasoline? Find a creative way to get to work via public transit. Ride a bike, if you're not too far out in the country. Offer to test one of those cool new hydrogen or ammonia-powered or electrical cars. Yes, I see where the problem is: The gasoline tax is a great idea, if the government already had enough public transit in place before they implemented it. It's not the tax that's a bad idea, they just didn't do it right.
@taxes as moral punishment: And why not? Money is the only way to make people do anything. If you really want someone to do something morally questionable, what do you do? BRIBE THEM. If you don't want someone to do something? Institute sufficiently large FINES! It always works. Always and without question. Why is our current government hopelessly corrupt? Because they wanted MONEY. Why do people still vote Conservative? For the CORPORATE TAX BREAKS.
If they really wanted people to do something about the environment? INCENTIVE PACKAGES for being environmentally friendly.
Well yeah, but with the price of gas, you might as well be throwing your income in a large bonfire if you commute in some areas. Gas is about $1.25 per litre (either litre or gallon) where I live, on average. I have seen it as high as $1.42 in some towns, and a 30 minute drive can sometimes show an increase in price by 10 cents or more. At least with public transit (for those who can take the train to commute), one can save over $60-80 instead of spending that much after a few days of driving... on jam-packed highways. My mother used to commute all the time, so I have an idea of what it is like.
Fines: The way I see it, a driving ticket is basically an expensive tax for the luxury of going too fast on the road.
Taxes on gasoline, tobacco, and alcohol as moral punishments? I see it as taxes on luxuries; gasoline, tobacco, and alcohol are not all that necessary, after all. Public transit, broccoli, and water are necessary.
Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 06, June, 2011, 07:39:45 PM
The gasoline tax is there to encourage CREATIVITY. Don't want to spend money on gasoline? Find a creative way to get to work via public transit. Ride a bike, if you're not too far out in the country. Offer to test one of those cool new hydrogen or ammonia-powered or electrical cars. Yes, I see where the problem is: The gasoline tax is a great idea, if the government already had enough public transit in place before they implemented it. It's not the tax that's a bad idea, they just didn't do it right.
@taxes as moral punishment: And why not? Money is the only way to make people do anything. If you really want someone to do something morally questionable, what do you do? BRIBE THEM. If you don't want someone to do something? Institute sufficiently large FINES! It always works. Always and without question. Why is our current government hopelessly corrupt? Because they wanted MONEY. Why do people still vote Conservative? For the CORPORATE TAX BREAKS.
If they really wanted people to do something about the environment? INCENTIVE PACKAGES for being environmentally friendly.
That doesn't work. All it does is punish the consumer. Energy companies are already working on new things, and they're working on making it affordable so it'll actually sell.
Drop your idealistic views and get out into the real world. Learn just how freaking hard it is to freaking LIVE. Go on, I'm waiting. When you put your own roof over your head, when you earn your own way, you then finally have a right to argue here.
That bit about corporate tax breaks? That was the best part.
Hey, guess what. We're the most business unfriendly environment on the planet. Why lower business taxes? BECAUSE IF WE DON'T THEY JUST GO TO CHINA. God, I hate you naive brats. Get out. Learn those hard lessons. Earn your own @#$%&*! living and THEN you can start criticizing. But only then.
Hell, man, even EUROPE has lower taxes than us now! That's pathetic! By the way, who do you think gives you a job?
Well?
No, money doesn't magically appear out of thin air, Jamie. You have to earn it. And COMPANIES have to afford to hire you. Lower taxes mean more people get hired. Higher taxes mean your @#$ is fired and your job is outsourced. Yeah, raising corporate taxes REALLY works now, doesn't it?
China and India are really good markets, as they hold great potential for business growth. With how the economy has been in the US and much of Europe, I am not sure if corporate tax breaks will help too much in the end; they already have the money to spend on taxes. Overtaxing regular citizens prevents them from buying these luxury products and services, which is what sends more companies abroad. If people can not afford something, you can't sell it to them to generate a revenue.
Yeah, the absurd gas taxes hurt the poor. Sales tax? It doesn't affect the rich. They HAVE money to spend. Businesses, on the other hand, need to have tax breaks to be competitive in the world market.
Most liberals, in my opinion, either get by on mommy's back and don't know what it's like to actually live on your own, or are so idealistic it borders on the naive. That's why people vote conservative - because libs are waaaaay too extreme. We -should- have a nice balance of liberal to conservative, but extremes are really offputting.
For example, if you disagree with Obama, you're a racist. That's the argument against legit complaints. If you support the republican suggestion for the Medicare fix, you're killing granny. Disregard the fact that it drastically increases funding for medicare in a way the freaked out many conservatives, and the fact that the democrat solution takes away money from medicare.
Gee, I wonder... Jamie, I really wonder... should we go with the conservatives, who are freaking out at the 14 TRILLION dollars in debt, or the liberals, who think we should spend even more? I dunno, to me, libs freak me out with how extreme they are. Same with the rest of the country.
Actually, there is something that I have to call you out on. While most of what you say is true about the US, there are a few differences when translating it over to Canada. The big one is about the Liberals. Liberal Part of Canada =/= liberal viewpoints in US. Our Liberals are actually the midpoint; the NDP are more like the liberals that you talk about. Granted, many of our Conservatives are making them out to be like the NDP (which is the party that thinks money comes out of the air).
Businesses might, but some of these corporations are loaded.
Aye, they've crazy radical here. Their party and ideals have really been hijacked and perverted to hell here, so in the US at least Liberal and Conservative have come to mean different things.
Then again, it's very likely to be different in every country. However, right now we're talking about the US' tax policy and how it's totally screwing us.