Other than the community hack, I have three personal projects. I have always limited myself to this number, since I don't want to overextend myself. Of the three projects, there are:
The Lost Age Remix - adds variety, some balance, and a full class allotment for the second team. Easiest of the personal hacks.
The Saturn Conspirator - a full golden sun doujin game. Same art style, so I can use many of the same tiles, as well as music. Can also take trends and use them. Middle difficulty.
And finally, there's this one. Different art style, different music style, different spell layout, different... everything except core battle mechanics. Easily the biggest undertaking, easily the longest project, easily the most difficult. This thread will go into detail everything I've built up for the project. I will be splitting it into several posts, so this post will serve as the table of contents.
Story Synopsis (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=1519.msg31157#msg31157)
Character Profiles (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=1519.msg31158#msg31158)
Game Mechanics (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=1519.msg31159#msg31159)
Art and Music (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=1519.msg31160#msg31160)
Story Synopsis
The story opens up with Suzuko and Hachibey, running away from an unseen entity within a witch's barrier. While once a powerful Puella Magi, Suzuko's power has been waning, and now is roughly as strong as a fresh puella magi, and is dangerously close to becoming a witch. She has to keep running, but she also needs a grief seed to drain away at least some corruption out of her soul gem. They encounter the fledgling puella magi Suzuki Kaoru. Against the witch, the two team up, and Kaoru agrees to let Suzuko have the grief seed after seeing how dark her soul gem has gotten. Before thanks can be said, though, the entity that Suzuko was fleeing from appears. Suzuko takes Kaoru and flees, and they barely manage to get away.
Wanting to know what the entity was, Suzuko and Hachibey explain the situation. The strange entity was a Magical Girl whom's wish was for 「Destruction」. However, wishing for such an abstract thing meant that she could only affect the abstract. This would be things like destroying tension, stress, or even the odds. It became was a very peculiar power, and while Hachibey was nervous granting it at first, it had appeared that the puella magi in question had found a creative way to use it, support her fellow puella magi by using it to assist them in their fights. However, because her powers were so abstract in nature, she had no way of directly affecting the situation - it was a problem that often popped up. The issue culminated when luck turned against their team - two of the six-puella magi team fell at the hands of a witch they'd underestimated, and it didn't look good for the others. Desperate, and despite Hachibey's urgent pleas, she used her power to destroy 「The Boundary Between Hope and Despair」, trying to tap into the power of the witch she's eventually become.
It worked - she quickly took out the witch they were fighting... though taking out one of her friends, who was 'in the way'. Becoming an entity between Puella Magi and Witch, she gained many of the powers of a witch - however, while she retained the consciousness of being a puella magi, she lost her sanity due to the influence of witch form. Frightened by the form and actions taken by the puella magi, the two remaining puella magi fled - one of whom being Suzuko. Suzuko had been on the run for nearly three months, pursued by her former friend. The other puella magi had already run out of magical power, and willingly became a witch to hold off the half-witch and buy Suzuko time. Hachibey had stayed with her and tried to provide moral support the best he could.
Kaoru decides to help Suzuko, and together they start travelling, trying to keep distance from the half-witch while figuring out how to deal with it. Hachibey suggests seeking out Kyuubey for ideas, and together they leave for Mitakihara Town. Upon arrival and explanation of the situation, Kyuubey reprimands Hachibey for granting such a wish, but doesn't have any immediate ideas. Knowing how much a threat a half-witch could be, he has the new Puella Magi for Mitakihara Town join up with Kaoru and Suzuko, Inoue Maiko. He also suggests they seek out a Puella Magi named Yamada Harumi, whom's wish was to 「Understand Puella Magi」, as her expertise on how to handle the situation should prove useful.
They find Harumi on her way out of the town. Boarding the train together, they begin to discuss the situation. Unsure of their resolve in the issue, she decides to test them first. The train out of the city winds up within a witch's barrier - one Harumi had planned on taking down on her way home. She has them assist her in defeating the witch, then after seeing them in battle, decides that she will go ahead and offer her assistance. Siting an instance of this happening long ago in the past, she directs them to the Puella Magi who was said to have defeated the half-witch... or rather, the witch of said puella magi. Siting that the witch's maze contains clues about the witch's life as a puella magi, the goal is to get in and get out without attracting the attention of the witch. The incident does not go as planned, though - and the witch has to be taken out.
After finding out the clues to the relic they need, they seek out and obtain the relic, allowing them protection from the power of the half-witch so that they could fight it on even ground. They confront it, though before they can finally take her down, she flees. From here, Suzuko begins to regain much of the confidence she had once lost, knowing now that she could stop her former friend. They continue to pursue her, and finally wind up cornering her. After defeating her a second time, Suzuko is about to deliver the final blow, when the half-witch, out of desperation, Destroys 「Limitations」. Having gone One-Winged Angel form, the puella magi have no choice but to fight, and despite the odds, manage to defeat the half-witch once and for all.
While never outright said, there are plenty of hints in the story itself that this is the same timeline as Puella Magi☆Oriko Magica, after the events have taken place, and after Walpurgis Nacht arrived at Mitakihara Town.
Character Profiles
Name: Amane Suzuko
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Wish: :Sol: 「For a strong and healthy body」
Effects: As a puella magi, Suzuko is stronger and a bit more durable than the average puella magi, as her wish had to do with her health. In addition to strong physical attacks, she also has basic healing abilities.
Personality: Brave and kind. A big sister in real life, she tends to extend this a bit to other puellae magi, whom tend to be younger than herself. However, because of recent events, her faith in herself and her confidence have been quite shaken. She doesn't fully regain her Onee-san/Sempai-esque attitude and personality until about halfway though the story.
Bio: A sickly child from birth, Suzuko was no stranger to hospitals and medicine. Though in and out of school, she put up a strong demeanor, determined not to let her illness get the better of her. When she was 13, she was approached by one of the Incubators, Hachibey. After weighing the pros and cons of becoming a puella magi, she decided to go ahead and become one. She trained under the wing of another puella magi, and together they got a team together to stop the witches in their town. Later, she got word that her mentor - away on a trip with her family - had fallen to another puella magi. The team robbed of their leader, Suzuko rose to the occasion and became the team's new leader.
Later, Hachibey met her again, this time with a new puella magi with it. Introducing her to Suzuko, Hachibey would begin to stay with the team, informing and preparing them for a witch that recently made its way to japan - Walpurgis Nacht. Together they fought and trained, preparing for the fight should the legendary witch make its way to them. However, they never got the chance. Focused on Walpurgis rather than what was right in front of them, they underestimated a witch during one of their exterminations, causing two of their heavy hitters their lives. Shocked, Suzuko tried to rally the others and overcome it, only to have the new puella magi - whom had primarily provided support for the group - do something unthinkable. Willingly transforming partway into a witch, the puella magi struck out and destroyed the witch - along with their healer, whom seemed but an obstacle in the way to the new half-witch. With only one ally remaining, and her new recruit seemingly on a rampage, Suzuko called for a retreat.
The events had shaken Suzuko quite badly, and others around her could tell. She, along with her last remaining teammate, tried to stop the half-witch, but found themselves all but powerless against her, their attacks dissipating before they could reach. Knowing that the half-witch would follow them wherever they went, Suzuko decided they had to flee, since the half-witch would very likely endanger their families if they'd stayed home. After three months of fleeing, and her last teammate fallen, Suzuko finds herself low on magical power, low on hope, and dangerously close to becoming a witch herself. She enters a witch's barrier, hoping to buy herself a little more time while she figures out how to stop her former friend...
Name: Suzuki Kaoru
Age: 14
Gender: Female
Wish: :MarsStar: 「For marksman skills that will one day get her into the Olympics」
Effects: Kaoru's wish grants her impeccable aim with projectile weapons, which she takes advantage of as a puella magi. Conjuring magic guns to aid her in combat, she strikes with expert precision.
Personality: Uneasy and nervous, though with great ambition. She isn't quite able to convey her words very well to others, but it doesn't stop her from trying. She very much wants to be better at socializing, though her dreams of being a famous sports shooter tend to take priority.
Bio: Kaoru's most precious memory is one of her family's trip to America. While there, her family watched an exhibition shooter's show, and she fell in love with it. To her, it signified the beginning of her dream - that for once in her life, she honestly knew what she wanted to be. Three years later, she began her life in middle school, and with her dreams leading the way, joined the archery club. She wasn't particularly good, being a beginner, but her upperclassmen said she showed promise. However, the whole year she seemed to barely gain any progress, and many of the other members in the club were talking about just having her be the manager. This continued into her second year, where despite originally being told she showed promise, she didn't seem to improve any at all. It was then that she met Kyuubey, who began to tell her about her latent magical power. It told her that she could wish for anything she wanted, she merely had to wish for it - though in doing so, she had to become a puella magi, and fight witches. She was skeptical at first, and leaned at first against it. However, a month after a storm had struck nearby Mitakihara Town (Walpurgis), it seemed as though she was approached by her fellow clubmates and asked to put down her bow and become a manager instead. Unable to speak clearly and really convey her feelings to them, she instead fled - distraught and desperate.
Kyuubey found her almost immediately, and again offered her the granting of one wish, in exchange for becoming a puella magi. This time, she agreed to it. On the night of her first hunt, she entered the barrier of a witch, and just before preforming her duty as a puella magi, came across another puella magi who was in bad shape, and needed to defeat the witch to survive. Wanting to make a good name for herself among her fellow puella magi, she eagerly decided to help her out, not knowing the direction this would take her.
Name: Inoue Maiko
Age: 14
Gender: Female
Wish: :MercuryStar: 「To make her friends, distraught by the recent disasters that struck their school, happy once again」
Effects: Her wish has granted her the ability to support puella magi and make them stronger. While she still has offensive abilities standard for puella magi, her true strength lies in helping others.
Personality: Friendly and supportive, genuinely wants to help others. She always tries to be the friend who's there for others when they need her, and generally dislikes it when the mood of a room is negative.
Bio: Maiko was taught from an early age to be a good person, and a good friend. Her parents tried to keep a friendly atmosphere, and taught her how to care for others. After entering school, she took these lessons to heart. She quickly gained friends, and tried to be a dependable person to them. However, at the same time, people would wind up confiding their problems in her. Nervous about it at first, she found that by listening to them and helping them out, she was able to resolve their issues. The feeling of helping her friends with their problems gave her a great feeling of satisfaction, and she became a counselor of sorts among her classmates. Her life was good, and this continued when she went to middle school. Though the problems her classmates approached her with changed, the feeling she got when she helped others stayed the same.
She then found herself approached by a being called Kyuubey. He told her that she had great magical power, and that she could use that power to help even more people. However, she turned him down, saying that she didn't want to cheat and use magic to help others. While Kyuubey seemed to leave her alone at first, occasionally she would see him at school. Whether he was dealing with other girls or following her she wasn't sure, but decided to give the creature the benefit of the doubt. She continued to help her classmates, but a few weeks later a disaster happened. A teacher and several students lost their lives in the incident, and Maiko found that she wasn't really able to help her classmates cope with it. Soon afterwards, another student died in the storm that struck the town (Walpurgis). Her close friends new the girl, and now nothing she did seemed to help. Desperate to help her friends, and with yet another girl having gone missing, she sought out Kyuubey, and made her wish.
While her friends weren't immediately cheery after her wish was made, it did seem that they, as well as the rest of the school, were recovering from the rush of incidents. Breathing a sigh of relief that her friends were once again on their way to being happy, she turned to her new duties as a puella magi. Having learned that witches were a source of despair in the world, she no longer viewed magic as a cheat, but as a necessary tool to deal with the depression she couldn't cure without it. She had already defeated a few witches when Kyuubey appeared before her again, introducing her to two other puella magi, and telling her the that there was an important mission she had to complete for the sake of her fellow puella magi. She eagerly agreed, though had no idea what it would lead to - the truth of puella magi, of the incidents that struck her school, and of the ordeals she'd have to take.
Name: Yamada Harumi
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Wish: :JupiterStar: 「To understand puella magi」
Effects: Along with her wish she gained the knowledge of the truth of puella magi and witches. As her wish was in regards to other puella magi, her powers take on the images typically associated with magic users in modern culture.
Personality: Desensitized and analytical, Harumi often comes across as cold or brash. While deep down she longs to reach out to her fellow puella magi, she knows how they tend to react when they learn the truth, and has developed the brash personality to drive others away, perhaps subconsciously trying to protect her comrades from the truth.
Bio: Harumi's life changed forever on that day - the day her parents decided that the world wasn't worth it anymore. At the time, Harumi agreed, and was willing to go with them. It just made sense, and she didn't know why - it just did. That's when the girl came and opened her eyes - when she realized what she was doing. That girl tried to save her parents as well, but unfortunately wasn't able to stop them in time. That girl was a puella magi, and her family was under the effects of a witch's kiss. After being moved into a foster home, Harumi began her new life without the family she had loved. Distraught, she had to ask herself why... why did her family do that? They had no reason, they were doing well. Who was the girl, and why did she save her, but fail to save her parents? So many questions went through her head. She wanted answers, but didn't know how to get them. She continued through life, entering middle school, but still knew nothing - nothing she read, either in books or online, seemed to give her answers.
Then she met the girl again. She seemed different, but it was definitely her - and as an upperclassman, she would be able to have other chances to get answers. Though the girl pretended not to know her, she persisted. Finally, she caught a break - she found the girl talking to what seemed to be a stuffed animal... who talked back. The girl, surprised that Harumi could even see the creature, finally admitted the truth - she was a puella magi, and back then, she had saved Harumi from a witch. Finally getting answers, Harumi now had a new goal - the witches had taken her family from her, the puella magi had tried to save her. She wanted to know more, to know everything... and she wanted to take revenge for her family and others whom were affected like them. After wishing to understand them, she did - she understood everything about puella magi - past and present - as well as the horrifying truth... that Puella Magi become witches...
Harumi immediately broke down, going into hysteria. She had not only willingly become the very thing that killed her parents, but in some cruel twist of fate, had joined them in suicide - her life now but a stone controlling the flesh puppet that was her body. It was a cruel, yet cute irony. Somehow, she accepted it, though. She knew why the system existed, and it made sense. If for the sake of the universe she had to be a devil, then so be it - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few after all. The puella magi who was with her, though, did not share the same understanding. Having blurted out the truth in her hysteria, Harumi had sent her former savior into despair - having her ideals, her convictions, and what she saw as the purpose of her life ripped apart just like that, the girl left in a daze, and would become one of Harumi's first hunts a mere two days later.
Having calmed down, and with the experience she had with her past savior now fresh in her mind, Harumi left the foster house on her own, now aware of what she could do. She could easily survive on her own, and did what she had to do in order to prevent the entropy death of the universe. This part of her job was fine, she was comfortable with it. Both the grown puella magi and ascended familiars she hunted, and wound up being a very reliable puella magi as far as Kyuubey, her contractor, was concerned. It was other puella magi she had problems with - wanting not to needlessly send them into despair, she wound up pushing away what ideally would have been valuable allies. After over a year as a puella magi, she heard of Walpurgis Nacht's coming to japan. She knew she stood no chance of defeating the witch, and thus didn't bother pursuing it. She did, however, follow its trail, her innate desire for knowledge causing her to visit each town hit by Walpurgis to study the effects it had. She was very surprised when it wound up being defeated by the puella magi team from Mitakihara Town. Understandably, they died in the fight, but the fact that they took down the strongest of all witches with them was quite impressive. She remained in the town, studying the effects, and observing the town's new puella magi, though they didn't last very long. Knowing that this was part of Kyuubey's territory, she knew it wouldn't be long before he contracted a new puella magi again, and after she saw who it was, decided to leave, heading back to her hometown. On her way back, she encountered the new girl, along with two other puella magi, and learned of the half-witch, a type of being that was particularly rare. Her thirst to study it piqued, she agreed to help them take it down.
Name: Hachibey
Age: Unknown
Gender: N/A
Personality: Like all incubators, Hachibey has no emotions, but has learned to emulate them in order to relate better with the puella magi they contract.
Bio: Hachibey is one of the incubators whom preform contracts with young girls to prevent the entropy death of the universe. It, Kyuubey, and Jyuubey are the three incubators whom oversee Japan. Ideologically opposed to Kyuubey's approach, Hachibey believes that it's important to be more honest with the girls they make contracts with, and let them know what they're getting into. While it doesn't tell the whole truth, Hachibey most definitely lets the puella magi know what they're in for - explaining that they will become the soul gem, and that if they run out of magical power or fall into despair that they well become the very witches they fight. However, he spins this in a way to garner compassion from them, explaining that it's the duty of the puella magi to end the suffering of those whom have fallen into an inescapable despair, that one day, should they too fall to despair, they will at least have peace in knowing that their fellow puella magi will end their suffering.
Understandably, Hachibey does not have the contract rate of Kyuubey, as the girls are far more reluctant to make a contract after knowing the price. After finding out Walpurgis Nacht had come to Japan, Hachibey encouraged many of the girls it'd contracted to work as a team, not wanting to fall behind on its quotas. They also made contracts they'd normally avoid. Unfortunately, that backfired quite badly, as one of those contracts became a half-witch, and doing damage greater than Walpurgis Nacht would have. Taking responsibility for its error, it accompanies the puella magi in order to help them in any way it can before the half-witch causes even more damage.
Game Mechanics
"Elements"
In place of Golden Sun's elements, the game will instead use four different forms of energy, stemming from the different types of wishes the Puella Magi wish for. This wish becomes the basis and source of magical power for the Puella Magi, and in their natural state, their attacks and abilities are all of this type. While the color of a magical girl's soul gem is independent of the wish, for the sake of convenience, as well as getting around hardware limitations, the colors used will be similar to Golden Sun - Yellow, Red, Purple, and Blue. The respective ability styles will be attributed to that energy type as well.
[img float=left]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/acidadept/PuellaMagiProject/SoulGemPhysical.png[/img]Physical
A yellow soul gem signifies a wish in regards to the puella magi's physical body. This can range from wishing to be stronger, to change one's appearance, or perhaps to heal an illness or injury of one's self. Examples of this type of Puella Magi include Tomoe Mami, Maki Kaoru, and Kure Kirika. The primary style of damage for this type of puella magi is added damage in nature, though particularly strong or wide-area attacks are likely to be multipliers. Because the wish was physical in nature, minor healing can be done through this energy source as well.
[img float=left]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/acidadept/PuellaMagiProject/SoulGemTechnical.png[/img]Technical
A red soul gem signifies a wish in regards to the puella magi's skills and expertise. This can range from wanting to be more dexterous, to gaining a new skill, or to having one's skills recognized by others. Examples of this type of Puella Magi include Usagi Satomi and Misaki Umika. Primary style of damage for this type of puella magi is defense piercing in nature, though particularly strong or wide-area attacks are also likely to be multipliers. Only energy type that can pierce through barriers (flash won't save you now!)
[img float=left]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/acidadept/PuellaMagiProject/SoulGemMystic.png[/img]Mystical
A purple soul gem signifies a wish for control, knowledge, or a similarly related wish. Examples include having others follow certain ideals, having control over aspects such as 'elementals', or having things such as future sight. Examples include Sakura Kyoko, Akemi Homura, and Mikuni Oriko. Primary style of attack for this type of puella magi involves added effects, though particularly strong or wide-area attacks are also likely to be multipliers. Though mainly able to strike with maledictions, they are capable of limited benedictions as well.
[img float=left]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/acidadept/PuellaMagiProject/SoulGemCompassion.png[/img]Compassion
A blue soul gem signifies a wish for the sake of another person. This includes healing another person, providing wealth or prosperity for another person - anything that benefits a person other than the Puella Magi. Examples include Miki Sayaka, Chitose Yuma, and Asuka Yuuri. Primary style of command for this type of puella magi is healing and benedictions, and attacks tend to drain health and energy back into the puella magi. Again, wide area or strong attacks tend to be multipliers. In addition to good healing, puella magi of this type are also known for being quite durable.
Character Natures
Each of the four characters has a different nature. These natures cause them to have different sources of damage. Furthermore, the soul gem of the Puella Magi serves as the only piece of primary equipment - it takes the place of weapons and armor, leaving only accessories left to customize the puella magi. The soul gems cannot be removed or unequipped, and as they are the puella magi themselves, they bear the name of the puella magi (Ex: Suzuko's soul gem is called Suzuko, and is permanently equipped). Soul gems boost stats via additional multipliers, and have three multipliers each.
Furthermore, each puella magi has different sources of attack power. This does not affect standard attacks, which will be based purely on strength, but instead the skills of the puella magi.
Amane Suzuko - A physical natured puella magi, wields a large battle ax into battle. Her primary stat of damage is Strength, though occasionally Agility will be used as well. Her techniques are primarily physical strikes. Her soul gem boosts HP, Strength, and Stamina. Has the largest strength boost of all the puella magi. Skill names are in German.*
Suzuki Kaoru - A technical natured puella magi, wields a rifle (though can use other firearms). Her primary stat of damage is Agility, though occasionally strength is used as well. Her techniques are primarily firearm related. Her soul gem boosts HP, Agility, and Stamina. Has the largest Agility boost of all the puella magi. Skill names are in Italian.*
Yamada Harumi - A mystical natured puella magi, wields a staff. Her primary stat of damage is Max MP. Her techniques resemble the traditional video game spellcaster, appearing as a variety of elemental attacks. Her soul gem boosts MP, Agility, and Stamina. Has the largest MP boost of all the puella magi. Skill names are in French.*
Inoue Maiko - A compassion natured puella magi, wields a folding fan. Uses Max MP, Strength, and Agility in her techniques, though tends to use Max MP more. Her techniques tend to be buffs and healing, and her attacks manifest as energy waves. Her soul gem boosts HP, MP, and Stamina. Has the largest Stamina boost of all the puella magi. Skill names are in Latin.*
*After doing a bit of research, found out that Mami, Kyoko, and all seven of the Pleiades Saints had skill names in Italian. As such, Italian is the language that will be used, so as to keep to form.
"Djinni"
Instead of djinn, the djinn system will be handed by "Soul Gem Fragments". It's said that when a Puella Magi falls in battle - that is, doesn't transform into a witch, but actually succumbs to death via damage, the soul gem is shattered. Fragments of that soul gem can grant power to another puella magi should she find it. As with djinn, the energy that is granted to the puella magi is the same as that of the soul gem. As with the soul gems the four puella magi wield, the "Soul Fragments" are named after the puella magi they used to be. As this game takes place in the same timeline as Oriko Magica, the Soul Fragments for Mami, Kyoko, and Yuma will be among the fragments found, with the excuse of "they defeated Walpurgis Nacht, but died in their efforts". The 'unleash' is the signature skill of that puella magi (ex: Tiro Finale for Mami's fragment, Rosso Fantasma for Kyoko's Fragment, etc...). The damage type depends on the skill itself (Mami's would be Agility based, Kyoko's would be Strength based)
There will be 9 fragments for each type of puella magi in the game, and a similar 'class setup' will be used compared to DCrisis.
Stat Renaming
A minor thing, but some stat renaming will be done. Names are as such:
HP is the same.
PP will become MP.
Attack will become Strength.
Defense will become Stamina.
Agility will remain the same.
Luck will become Resist
Elemental Power is now Skill
Elemental Resist is now Defense
"Summons"
Summons are not in this game. Instead, a puella magi can unleash the stored up energy from using Soul Fragments, causing a "magic burst". Magic bursts come in four tiers of power.
Burst Lv.1: 25 + 2% target HP damage.
Burst Lv.2: 50 + 4% target HP damage.
Burst Lv.3: 100 + 6% target HP damage.
Burst Lv.4: 200 + 8% target HP damage.
Unleashes
Unlike in Golden Sun, unleashes behave differently in this hack. As the Puella Magi levels up, they will have a chance of preforming a quick skill rather than a standard attack. This skill is unique to the Puella Magi, and the strength, attack type, and rate of attack differs based on the puella magi themselves. Unleashes do not have the same power as actual skills, however.
Suzuko: Strongest skill of the group, strength based multiplier (1.55x?). Rate is 50% of current level.
Kaoru: Skill uses agility as basis for power, ignores 30% of target's defense (alternatively, if possible, ignores a percentage of defense based on 75% of Kaoru's level). Rate is 75% of current level.
Harumi: Skill uses Max MP as basis for power, low powered multiplier (1.35x?). Rate is 65% of current level.
Maiko: Skill chooses random from Strength, Agility, and Max MP based attack (animation matches which base it uses). Multiplier, likely (1.35?). Rate is 90% of current level. As an added note, remember that Maiko is likely 2nd best in these areas. The higher unleash rate balances the jack of trades nature of the character... or at least, that's the idea.
These skills are not particularly flashy or spectacular, but rather are meant to act as a step up from critical attacks, as well as allow a more reliable attack command for when conserving MP is required.
Damage types
As you may have noticed, I never mentioned base damage. Because it isn't in this game. Told you, it's quite a bit different than golden sun.
0 - ? (dummy value, probably has to stay)
1 - Physical Blow, Added Damage (Strength vs Stamina)
2 - Physical Blow, Multiplier (Strength vs Stamina)
3 - Skillful Blow, Added Damage (Agility vs Stamina)
4 - Skillful Blow, Multiplier (Agility vs Stamina)
5 - Magical Blow, Added Damage (Max MP vs Stamina)
6 - Magical Blow, Multiplier (Max MP vs Stamina)
7 - Magical Burst (Summon)
8 - Effect Only
9 - Effect Only, Always Goes First
A - HP Healing
B - MP Healing (items only)
C - Open, may not be used.
D - Open, may not be used.
E - Open, may not be used.
F - Open, may not be used.
Notice how Utility isn't there? This isn't a Golden Sun based hack. There are no utility skills.
Music and Art Direction
The direction I want to take the game should reflect the source itself. As such, the art style should match the anime and the Oriko manga, both in environment and character design. I will not link to either a torrent of the anime nor a scanlation of the manga, but will ask that if you want to see the source you seek it out yourself.
The music, however, I will provide a mediafire link to. The music should have the same feel and tone as the anime, though modified a bit to work in a looping style you'd see in a game. I do not think I will have a standard battle theme, rather you will hear the same music you hear in the individual witch's barrier. However, bosses will receive their own theme.
http://www.mediafire.com/?icq5qpod56si23a
The rest of this post will be reserved for art and audio samples that have been created for the project.
Art Samples
Art samples include sprites, concept art, tilesets, and screenshots
Audio Samples
Art samples include tracks run through a traditional 2-loop cycle, as well as additional sound effects
This post also reserved for future info
Final reserved post - I hope I don't need more than this.
So, any questions, comments, suggestions? I think I'm done for now, and all the reserved posts I think I'll probably ever need have been posted. If all else fails, I could cannibalize this post too, but for now, I think I'm good with the basic layout.
But yeah, as I said, this is easily the biggest undertaking of my three personal projects, and I'll be changing more than with any other project I work on. I hope it works out well, though obviously it'll need both a fully developed editor, as well as a person or team able to create custom formulas and effects before I can even think of getting this off paper. And since that requires atrius to finish the editor, we've got no clue just when that'll be. Likely, GS4 would be out beforehand. However, that won't discourage me. It's just more reason to pester atrius until he gets it done! :awesomeface:
Wondering how you'll balance Magic-based attacks, since all skills run off of your MP meter, using that also as your damage source for a character will make them stupidly good at dealing damage if you aren't careful.
Also thinking it would be cool to have a move whose damage runs off their Current MP, rather than Max MP, or a move whose damage runs off of (Max MP - Current MP), so your damage is greater the lower your MP.
Lots of cool ideas here, but I have a natural tendency to dislike "Magical Girl" anime/manga, for obvious reasons.
Okay... not sure where you're coming from here. How would it be broken again? If GS is a source of example, that could easily be the weakest of the three types of damage. In DD, a level 99 Wizard Karis only has 566 Max PP, compared with 738 attack power. You're saying that using the 566 value for attack power will be stronger than using the 738 value. And... yeah. It's not.
While true, I will not be using GS balance methods, I would like to point out the fact that Harumi and Maiko, the two who tend to use that type of damage, are not primary damage dealers. It's very unlikely that those two will have Max MP that exceeds the Strength value of Suzuko.
As for the magical girl thing, same here. It's why I love Madoka so much, because despite being a magical girl anime, it was so good at it. Less Sailor Moon crap, and more "it's not all sunshine and lolipops" mixed with "you are the demons". Damn good show.
Edit: To give further examples, here's where I'm coming from:
Suzuko, when she runs out of MP, still has a rather large attack power behind her. While damage output drops, it's still strong. In fact, in random battles, you could say that unlike the other three, she may not even need it, her physical blows as strong enough to justify not using spells on lower ranked familiars.
Kaoru naturally has more MP than Suzuko, allowing her to use her spells longer in battle. When she runs out, she'll basically be 'out of ammo', and her strength isn't close to Suzuko's. As such, the damage drop is much more severe, as her source of damage otherwise tends to be Agility. The fastest of the characters (can you strike faster than bullets?), she can strike through enemy defenses, and take out threats before they can act.
Harumi, rather than being a high damage output like Suzuko, or a defense and barrier piercing like Kaoru, instead has sustained damage. She may not be able to have the sheer oomph of Suzuko, but she can keep it up much longer. Though her soul gem increases agility, it's probably not enough to overcome the natural agility of the others, and much like Garet, her true value will come not in random battles, but in the more drawn out fights of boss fights, where maledictions and sustained damage have a use.
Maiko is a jack of trades in terms of her layout. She can do each of the damage types, but is second or third-best in all. She can hit decently after running out of MP, but it's not a particularly high value, unlike Suzuko. She can dish out spells for a longer period of time, but will likely be put on support due to her own nature an the needs of the party, so damage output via MP source isn't likely to be much. She's the third-slowest character, but the modifiers on the agility based attacks of hers keep it semi-decent.
Alright, super cool hack idea, and I'm definitely going to make some designs based on these characters. I'm already loving the style of the series, it's much closer to what I'm trying to do than the style in Golden Sun, and it will give me an excuse to use the clichéd "cute girls with big weapons" theme. But just like this project, that will probably have to be put somewhere in the future. At the very least I'll have to check out the spin-off mangas, which I didn't even know existed before today.
Actually took my time to read the story and character bios as well, and it looks good. Not much to say there, there's a good amount of base material for a short game, I don't think anything should be changed about it.
Now, you have four characters, and they will always have a specific item equipped. The game you want to hack has three pre-programmed class changing items. Using the class changing items as a basis for the Soul Gems would give you a lot of control over the classes, as every character would effectively get their own exclusive set. I'm not sure how well the game would manage to sort the classes when only choosing from one group, but that can be tested.
You're saying the Soul Gems replace weapon and armor, but all characters have a weapon they use in battle. I don't see what's stopping you from allowing every character to use only one type of weapon, so you could upgrade them as the game progresses. But even if you don't want that, shouldn't every character at least have one weapon equipped that they can't remove?
What would Hachibey look like? I've never seen another incubator, maybe they all look the same. But I think it would be cool to give "it" a different appearance in the same style as Kyuubey.
I think it's strange to rename defense to stamina, even if all types of attacks go against it. Defense should be how well you protect yourself from damage, while stamina feels more like being able to take a lot of damage - HP, in other words. Defense is still defense, it reduces the damage taken.
With utility spells, do you mean stuff like Golden Sun's puzzle solving psynergy? Because I think it would be strange not to have any buffing spells when you have a character who specifically wishes to be able to help others.
Glaring misspelling in the elements section, "techincal". Fix it >:)
Don't see formula tweaks as something that would stop you from getting this off paper, those things can be compensated for in various ways until later on. The biggest obstacle I see is how different the environment would be from Golden Sun, meaning you would need a LOT of custom graphics. Which also brings up another question; what would the characters fight besides witches (which would have to act as bosses)? If you hope to get someone to do it, I suggest you write very specific art direction for all the areas that would be in the game, as well as writing the full script. As for the soundtrack, you could always arrange the OST for the anime in the game's format...
I'll admit, it's still a general idea. There's a lot of filler and other plot I have to figure out. However, I will note that it is very unconventional for an RPG - you don't fight stuff in the real world, typically only in witch's barriers, with few exceptions. No grinding chances when you're done - it's story time. And let's hope you're prepared when you go in, too. Once you go in, you'll not be able to leave. It's a very tricky balance I'll have to figure out, though I plan to have some kind of post game where you can continue to fight witches that appear, like a proper magical girl team.
As for the characters, all I know for certain is outfit colors - the outfits are definitely color coded for your convenience. I also know that Suzuko is likely blonde, and I want bells to be part of her outfit somehow, like maybe as a hair accessory. For the others, well... whatever fits the outfit would be nice.
Hachibey would be different in appearance, yes. Here:
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Kyubey
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Jubey
@Soul Gems: The trick is, you're not gonna be having a shop selling axes to a middle school girl. And there's also Japan's gun ban. Equipment won't work, not the traditional fantasy equipment, not in this setting. I wanted to have a way for them to still get stronger more than just at level up, some kind of natural equip. The soul gem working off of a multiplier works very similar in this regards, essentially acting as automatic weapon and armor upgrades for the puella magi. Because of this, I also only need one sprite set for the group - I can use that to expand the animations they can use, rather than needing one for each weapon. Look at it this way - the weapon is formed as a manifestation of their magical power. It's not something they equip and upgrade - the strength of their gear is directly proportionate to their own magic power.
@Defense: The thing here is because I can't use elemental power and resist any more, since they're, you know, not elements. I wanted to use affinity too, but that wouldn't work in context, which is why I'm using skill over power, and defense acts as their defense against that style of attack.
@Typo: Thanks! I'll fix it right away!
@Off paper: The biggest thing keeping this from happening is that the editor just can't do this yet. Basically, I'll work on getting the story honed and refined, figure out the mechanics (easily done by substituting attack with expected values for the stats I'm gonna be useing), and stuff like tilesets and art direction. Testing, prep work, all this is "on paper". The problem is getting an editor to support the final product!
Quote from: Role on 25, October, 2011, 06:15:56 PM
I'll admit, it's still a general idea. There's a lot of filler and other plot I have to figure out. However, I will note that it is very unconventional for an RPG - you don't fight stuff in the real world, typically only in witch's barriers, with few exceptions. No grinding chances when you're done - it's story time. And let's hope you're prepared when you go in, too. Once you go in, you'll not be able to leave. It's a very tricky balance I'll have to figure out, though I plan to have some kind of post game where you can continue to fight witches that appear, like a proper magical girl team.
Well, there you have a problem. If you don't exploit the game's major mechanics, this will just be a lot of work for a game that isn't all that. Here you have to try to be creative and add something new that works with an RPG-style game, but could still go along with the original concept, since as a player you want a lot of opportunity to fight using your characters. The post game idea sounds promising, although as you probably realized, witches as random encounters would be stupid. Again, you have to come up with a way to get it to work.
Quote from: Role on 25, October, 2011, 06:15:56 PM
@Soul Gems: The trick is, you're not gonna be having a shop selling axes to a middle school girl. And there's also Japan's gun ban. Equipment won't work, not the traditional fantasy equipment, not in this setting. I wanted to have a way for them to still get stronger more than just at level up, some kind of natural equip. The soul gem working off of a multiplier works very similar in this regards, essentially acting as automatic weapon and armor upgrades for the puella magi. Because of this, I also only need one sprite set for the group - I can use that to expand the animations they can use, rather than needing one for each weapon. Look at it this way - the weapon is formed as a manifestation of their magical power. It's not something they equip and upgrade - the strength of their gear is directly proportionate to their own magic power.
You're right about the shop thing, I was more thinking about if you would be able to find new weapons, although that doesn't seem very likely either in this setting. I still think you should have a single weapon you can't unequip, even if the weapon itself has no effect. In the details screen, you could repoint the text to a few lines of description for the weapon instead of the usual stat and effect listing. It's just a flavor thing. Again with the setting though, you have to be able to make something you can use to your advantage when designing. The game
has a functional system for equipment, and if you almost never use it, it's all wasted. You could try to work something out with those accessories where there isn't a great variety, but among the ones there is they all have some kind of unique effect.
I'll probably have some element of that in the standard game itself, where you can encounter stray witches and take them down. My biggest problem, however, is money. It's not like you get cash for taking down witches, you know? I may have an errand system, where you can do small jobs and get paid for it a bit at a time. Nothing too much, maybe 200-500 yen usually, something realistic. Other times you'd get an accessory for the job. The idea is still a newer one, but as I try to figure these things out it helps to flesh it out.
Still, I want that clear distinction. No fights in the real world, no shops in the witches' barriers.
@Equipment: My idea was to use the extra slots for accessories and the like. The Weapon slot would be taken by the soul gem, and the others are things you can actually go an buy at shops. Much like how Mami turned a simple bat into a uberslugger, when turned into a puella magi, these accessories will be blessed by their magic and contribute to their stats as well. A Yellow Ribbon, for example, could add to Physical Skill. While the stat boosts are not as pronounced as traditional armor, builds are still very much a factor with accessories, simply because of how many of them you can use and stack. I count nine slots - so that's two rows of equipment you can have on a character, and still have five slots for items.
For healing items... I'm feeling creative. I was thinking food. For example:
Chocolate. Description: A girl's delight. Recovers 300 MP.
Or something like that.
How about making each witch barrier into sort of a dungeon? That would allow for some pretty crazy opportunities in terms of level design, and you could fight the witch's minions as random encounters before you finally face the real thing. If you dislike the idea that defeating enemies or witches would give you money, you could instead make them drop items that you can sell. Witches could drop some expensive item characteristic to themselves, or maybe drop accessories in some cases.
The problem with witch barriers, as you say, is that they go away when the witch is defeated. You want to maintain some challenge in the game, but at the same time make sure players don't get stuck because they're underleveled. Either make an exception/think up some plot device so you can revisit the witch worlds, or make "training areas" at certain points in the game.
About equipment, there are several types of equippable items, more than you are likely to use up on accessories. You could simply leave the weapon slot untouched, use another item type for weapons, and still have item types to spare. It might be a good idea to simply leave the weapon slot unused, since it's the only item type that loads the weapon sprites.
Well that goes without saying. The barriers are "the witches' labyrinth", right? The problem is the generation aspect of it. I don't know if the game can handle randomized dungeons, but if possible, perfect. We'd have preset types of pathways and rooms, and a set of tilesets to go with them. The tileset will match the witch you fight, and because of gameplay limitations you will very possibly run into the same witch multiple times (blame stray familiars, it's even possible in canon, deal with it). They'd also be on different spots on the map. To prevent overgrinding, when you hit a certain level over the target (say, target level +5), they stop showing up, similar to how monsters stop showing up in the Sol Sanctum when Jenna hits level 3 or so.
The problem I see with item drops is... well, what value is some random @#$% to some shopkeeper? Who do you sell it to even, you're a middle school girl! Once again, real life slaps the idea upside the head. It's why I figured I'd do some kind of errand thing, at least that's a bit more reasonable, since it's only a few bucks at a time or something. We'll just need to keep this as a low-econ game. Nothing crazy expensive, unless we want an infinity plus one broach. That I can see costing, say, 40,000 in a game where stuff typically is no more expensive than 1,500 yen. Also, witches will drop a grief seed. It'd be a non-stacking item that works as a combo of a Potion and the Salt Djinn in GS. If possible, I'd like it to recover all MP as well, essentially being a "full heal". Not all witches drop them, so it'd probably be a chance for the drop. Story witches always drop one, though, save the first one which is automatically 'used'.
The Djinn Killing mechanic will have to go, though.
@Weapon sprites: Remember when I mentioned that I'd only need one sprite? I was specifically referencing that. There'd be no need for the game to load weapon sprites, so that frees up memory to use on things like more attack animations. For example, Kaoru pulling out a shotgun, firing, and going back to her rifle. Basically, characters have their standard weapons, and animations serve the purpose of changing the weapon's form if needed.
For some reason I had a sudden mental picture of Ricardo Soldato. "Burutal Hunto! Raginge Hunto! Fleur Lis!" *bangbangbang, bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang, BANG!*
Other than that, I'd just like to say that the reason I dislike Magical Girl anime isn't because of the lighthearted nonsense. It's because, like the name says, it's ALL GIRLS. And yet for some reason they STILL want — and angst about — teenage romance, despite the fact that all males are clearly automatically inferior to them, on account of being unable to have such awesome magical powers.
Jamie, if that's why you hate magical girl stuff, then you'll absolutely love this. I also recommend Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha to you for that matter, as it as absolutely no romance in it.
Randomizing a set of map portals would definitely be possible with a bit of work. I don't think it would hurt to keep the "retreat" ability and use that as a way to exit. But why would you need randomized maps when you can just build an actual labyrinth? Oh well, I guess it could be interesting.
It's easier to prevent overleveling by manipulating the tresholds for exp required to level up.
Also, who said the enemies should drop random crap? Make them drop something that seems valuable, and put out people who would be interested in buying particular items. There has to be some reward for fighting, why else would you fight? And if you don't need to buy stuff, what would you use as a reward? If you only get stuff that is necessary to progress in the game, it kind of feels like you're being cheated.
Yeah, witches should drop grief seeds, obviously. What you're planning for it right now though, kind of makes it too awesome to use. Like psy crystals/waters of life in GS, I don't think I've ever used any of those. If you want to make the game really hardcore, you could make the grief seeds fully restore everyone in the party when obtained, and not have anything resembling an inn. If you want to be more forgiving... it could power up the characters in some way.
Quote from: Role on 25, October, 2011, 07:45:12 PM
@Weapon sprites: Remember when I mentioned that I'd only need one sprite? I was specifically referencing that. There'd be no need for the game to load weapon sprites, so that frees up memory to use on things like more attack animations. For example, Kaoru pulling out a shotgun, firing, and going back to her rifle. Basically, characters have their standard weapons, and animations serve the purpose of changing the weapon's form if needed.
...which is why I said you should leave the "weapon" item type unused, so the game doesn't load the weapon sprites. If you want to do stuff like that it doesn't make much of a difference though, compared to the animation editing you'd have to do.
Jamie: just throwing this in, I only looked into the series because I thought it looked cool. It was way beyond my expectations though.
The random witches have random labyrinths. The story ones have larger, more complex ones.
@Thresholds: Never underestimate the power of grinding here. Besides, the cutoff isn't to keep you from overleveling, it's to keep you from being too overleveled. Ideally, you'd have to grind a ton of those labyrinths to hit five levels over the target.
@Reward for fighting: You help to prevent the entropy death of the universe. There's your reward. Now be a good lich and do your job.
@Grief seeds: Well, I was hoping to have it act like it does in canon, or at least be a close effect. The fact that random witches have a chance to drop it is good too, so they'll be great in a pinch. As for being forgiving... I don't think we should do this. Puella Magi is the Dark Souls franchise of the magical girl genre. We need to have some degree of difficulty here. I don't plan on making this Dark Souls hard, granted (unless you play on Lunatic. Your funeral), but the point remains that we should be true to the source. Juubey had the party heal, while seeds were closer to a full-restore for a single magi. A better idea would be to actually encourage item use. Getting your butt kicked? Got the game over screen of Suzuko going witch one too many times? What, you don't use items? lolnoob.
As I said before, items are the only source of MP restoration. I'm even considering having resting only restore HP, given that it would make sense for a puella magi to be healed at a much faster rate. MP, though... that's a tricky thing in this franchise, because that's directly tied to a puella magi's magic power, which can run out. My idea was to have food and snacks work as the in-game healing items. Something like an apple or bread could restore HP, while sweets and "happy" foods fight off despair and give a boost to MP.
@Weapons: You know we can change that bit, right? So that it doesn't call for a weapon sprite? That's the goal here. We're already looking into a variation of that for the DCrisis hack, where it doesn't call for the base sprite unless you're actually unarmed, where it'd call an unarmed sprite instead. Alternatively, we can use the same alternative - base sprite is empty, and we only have to worry about detail in the weapon sprite.
Random witches? Now we're talking, lol.
If you can fight any number of witches, I think grief seeds as you described would work. But shouldn't it be a guaranteed drop? I mean, what if you get unlucky and fight five witches in a row without getting one? That really puts a damper on how difficult you can make them, if you have to account for the possibility that you're fighting them with a severely weakened party. Also, in that case I don't think there's any need for a party heal, nor should there be any MP restoring items. This could get quite interesting.
Btw, doing what you would just do anyway is a lame reward.
And yeah, like I said about the sprites, you're going to have to do quite a bit of animation editing. I'm not quite sure how complicated it would be.
Well, that's what I said earlier. That you may be able to find random witch barriers, but they stop showing up when you get too strong for that point in the story. They're not guaranteed drops, as they're randomly generated and their barriers randomly placed in the world map. The rules still apply, though - you can't leave when you enter. I was thinking a 1/2 or 1/4 chance, depending on the witch itself. Story witches are 1/1 of course. However, they're NOT common, and very limited. You'll want to use them if @#$% hits the fan, you know? I imagine they'll see more use in harder difficulties as a result.
There will be party heals - it's unique to Maiko, though. Also, just so we're clear, we will not have 'spell families'. Each spell is unique, rather than being part of a line or set.
@Animation editing: No @#$%. We're even having different art directions... and when it comes to familiars and witches, well... they're unique to their barriers, so a wide variety of art designs there. This is gonna be one hell of an undertaking, and I'll work on anything I think necessary to really get it to shine. I've even been thinking about changing the view to isometric, upping the map sprite size for the characters, more frames per animation, etc...
@Lame Reward: You got your reward when you made your wish. Now go hunt witches and help extend the life of the universe.
As for player rewards, you do it for the XP. That's the whole point - a chance to train between story witches. Other than that, your source of income will be more real-world, your purchases will reflect real-world things, and hopefully at real world prices. It'll be a lower economy game, so lower rewards, but lower prices too, so we won't have to worry too much about stuff. Instead of making things more and more expensive, it'd probably be a better idea to keep it reasonable, but just available at newer locations and what not. Some familiars could drop items, if it makes sense for them. In a food themed barrier, the familiars could have a chance to drop healing items. In a barrier that has a bunch of crafts or sewing mechanics, ribbons or other accessories. It's not a high chance, but without the 4x drop rate you get from djinn killing, it's not crazy painful either. However, the drop MUST make sense for the creature and its appropriate witch, and not all of them will drop something.
Something else I had planned - in the beginning of the game, the very beginning, when Suzuko is dangerously low on magic power, she has a different version of "Suzuko" equipped until you take out the intro boss - one that changes her class in the same style as the Machete in the TBS intros did for Isaac and Garet. It's the same as her base class, but without any spells at all, just like with them. After purifying her soul gem, the game does an automatic hidden gear swap to her normal one, basically putting her back in her class, spells and all. This way, it'd even have an effect in New Game+. It is for this reason that the first boss doesn't drop a grief seed, despite being a story boss. It did - but it was automatically used as part of the plot.
With party heal, I meant like staying at an inn to fully recover everyone, not the spells. It's a good idea to be able to restore HP by resting though. MP recovers slowly as you walk anyway, so having grief seeds as the only source for MP restoration should be fine. Speaking of grief seeds, I'd suggest you always make it a 1/1 chance, but weaker witches drop weaker seeds. Remember, there are plenty of item slots to use ;P
Well, I shouldn't tell you how to design your game, it's just that I personally think that if a game is too restrictive, it loses a lot of its appeal. In those cases, the same effect could be better achieved by a graphic novel or an animated movie; the more you lessen the impact of the player's actions, the more you lessen the significance of the interactivity itself. Losing the game doesn't count into this!
Quote from: Role on 25, October, 2011, 09:19:19 PM
@Animation editing: No @#$%. We're even having different art directions... and when it comes to familiars and witches, well... they're unique to their barriers, so a wide variety of art designs there. This is gonna be one hell of an undertaking, and I'll work on anything I think necessary to really get it to shine. I've even been thinking about changing the view to isometric, upping the map sprite size for the characters, more frames per animation, etc...
Those things could work, I guess... there's some width space left on the character overworld sprites, and you can already move in 8 directions anyway... but you're moving towards non-GS territory.
A very nice and different hack.
Also just to be clear about this, from what i understood, Physical will be weak to Mystical while Technical and Compassion well i cannot see them as opposites .. so are you gonna have soul gem weaknesses and strengths or not?
Oh and I would like to say, Looking forward to actually playing this hack >_<
QuoteWith party heal, I meant like staying at an inn to fully recover everyone, not the spells. It's a good idea to be able to restore HP by resting though. MP recovers slowly as you walk anyway, so having grief seeds as the only source for MP restoration should be fine. Speaking of grief seeds, I'd suggest you always make it a 1/1 chance, but weaker witches drop weaker seeds. Remember, there are plenty of item slots to use ;P
Oh, definitely. I want to try and stick with the source the best I can. Problem with grief seed only is that, well, witches are treated as bosses. This means you've got one seed, and only one person gets it. That's why I'm leaning towards having comfort foods and snacks restore MP by a bit, though I may have it so it's out-of-battle only, and have grief seeds being the only in-battle method. I'm also considering keeping the MP regen, with the justification of "the party supporting each other" or something. It'll be toned down compared to GS, though.
QuoteWell, I shouldn't tell you how to design your game, it's just that I personally think that if a game is too restrictive, it loses a lot of its appeal. In those cases, the same effect could be better achieved by a graphic novel or an animated movie; the more you lessen the impact of the player's actions, the more you lessen the significance of the interactivity itself. Losing the game doesn't count into this!
Don't worry about that - the whole reason I'm discussing this stuff with y'all is to help give me ideas! I know it's a bit restrictive, which is why I'm trying to group brainstorm. After all, after talking with you, I got the idea to have random witch barriers. So long as the ideas keep flowing, this should shape up nicely.
Quotebut you're moving towards non-GS territory.
Well, that
is the general idea.
QuoteNothing "seems" to thumb a game down more than a restrictive game, restrictions make games generally less enjoyable (unless they're for specific serious reasons) and won't be looked into very much. When it comes to Total conversions form what I've learned through experience with....The other case.....Flexibility should be exceptional.
There's a fine line between being unrestrictive and keeping true to the source material. I'm trying to find the best balance between the two with this hack.
QuoteAlso just to be clear about this, from what i understood, Physical will be weak to Mystical while Technical and Compassion well i cannot see them as opposites .. so are you gonna have soul gem weaknesses and strengths or not?
Not exactly - like in GS, everything has different strengths and weaknesses. It's one of the things I absolutely love about GS's system - the elements don't have to oppose each other at all!
That being said, there is a bit of truth behind what you're saying, though not from an elemental standpoint.
Physical's weakness is the lower MP pool, while that's Mystical's strong point. Conversely, the second mystical is out of MP, it's very weak, while physical can keep going strong.
Technical doesn't really have much durability to speak of, with average HP and MP at best, while Compassion tends to have the durability to last much longer. On the other hand, Compassion's strength is moot compared to Technical's specialty - piercing through that defense.
So while they are not technically opposites, in terms of trends and behavior they may seem to act like it at times.
QuoteWill it be working as a Cycle between power and Speed and other various factors ?
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Be more specific.
QuoteNot exactly - like in GS, everything has different strengths and weaknesses. It's one of the things I absolutely love about GS's system - the elements don't have to oppose each other at all!
That being said, there is a bit of truth behind what you're saying, though not from an elemental standpoint.
Physical's weakness is the lower MP pool, while that's Mystical's strong point. Conversely, the second mystical is out of MP, it's very weak, while physical can keep going strong.
Technical doesn't really have much durability to speak of, with average HP and MP at best, while Compassion tends to have the durability to last much longer. On the other hand, Compassion's strength is moot compared to Technical's specialty - piercing through that defense.
So while they are not technically opposites, in terms of trends and behavior they may seem to act like it at times.
Interesting, so you are gonna have to remove the part of the code that deals with elemental weaknesses. Also how much of the hack can you do with the current version of the editor? And what about the sprites? You are gonna have to make them or ask spriters to do them right?
...You clearly misunderstood me there. In GS, elements are only opposed thematically - elemental power and resistance, however, are totally independent of that. For example: Nearly every flying enemy ever is strong in Jupiter. You'd think it's weak to Venus then, right? I mean, it uses Jupiter spells and attacks, and it's highest elemental power is Jupiter after all. It just makes sense that it'd be weak to Venus, right? Right? WRONG. It resists the crap out of venus, and is weak to Jupiter - arguably its own element!
That's the thing. I don't have to change a thing! That's the beauty of GS's element system - even in the original games, they were "opposites in name only" as far as the code was concerned. Hell, the playable adepts weren't weak to their opposite element even - they were weak to their symbiotic element!
As for sprites - until I know for sure where I'm going with the art direction, spriters aren't going to do anything outside of ability and item sprites. One thing is for certain, they won't be in the same style as GS - depending on how it goes, it may not be flattened 3D models, but rather a style that tries to look like it'd be something out of the anime.
@Real world, money related: OK, so you're going around with an inventory full of stuff such as chocolate, ribbons, etc. until you notice this rather gullible looking, randomly generated npc child walking around in town. Could it be that, for some sweets or a collectible or somesuch, they would be willing to part with some of their pocket money? *hands over bottle cap, stickers, etc. gained from appropriately themed witch or minion battles* *receives yen*.
Basically the idea of selling random crap to people roughly your own age...
[spoiler=Should probably ignore this...]@Experience: Would it be possible to lower the amount of exp gained after the first time battling a minion or witch of the same type?I know, really bad phrasing...
Example:
You battle "MinionA" and, after the battle is victoriously concluded, gain 1024 exp. (Game makes a note of the fact that you have fought enemy "MinionA")
*Continues to walk in maze...*
You are attacked by a "MinionA"!
*MinionA is killed...*
You gain 256 exp.
Or you could have a multiplier for the divider... so exp gained from a battle is equal to (base exp reward/number of times you have fought enemy(+1))
With the excuse: "I have learned all I can from fighting this creature..."[/spoiler]
@No shops inside boundaries: Other Puella Magi? Who says they can't trade/sell items amongst themselves?
This way you could also trade/purchase unusual items.
Sorry if none of this is logical...
Kid? No. They'd likely be adults who offer a bit of pocket money to do an errand. Like, a bakery who needs something delevered, but their delvery person just called in sick. They don't want to close up shop, but they need something delievered. Normally, they're not gonna trust a stranger to do it, but I can see the excuse of the character using a bit of magic to make them seem truthworthy. After all, it's not the first time magic has been used for this - Kyoko actually got away with stealing by using magic.
@Experience: Ideally, I'd like something similar to suikoden's setup, where you're rewarded based on the level difference between you and the enemies. Fight mooks too low, and you'll only get 1 XP. Fight stuff way over your level, and you'll shoot up. This would eliminate the need to grind pretty much entirely. Only problem, it makes for a boring game, since the whole point of the random witches is to give you something to train on, as well as something other than errands to do.
@Other Puella Magi: I did plan on there being other Puella Magi... but in this, they act more like the djinn you fight. These would be Puella Magi who don't like that you're in their turf, and would sooner kill you and be done with it - so you'd have to beat them. You'd get a shard of their soul gem after beating them - and probably a scene between the team after the first time. Kyoko, Oriko, Kirika, are known to attack other puella magi, and pretty much the whole plot of Kazumi Magica revolves around conflict between the puella magi. After all, it has been specifically stated in the anime that teams of puella magi are an exception, not the rule, as are those like Mami. This will show here, too - of the puella magi, only the new ones will speak up about seeing a familiar outside of a witches barrier. Suzuko would remark that she'd rather fight a grown familiar than a fellow puella magi to survive, while Harumi would remark that it would be better for them only to go after fully developed witches, for similar reasons mentioned by Suzuko.
And yeah, don't worry about it - it's important this discussion happens.
Quote from: Role on 27, October, 2011, 12:10:09 AM
Quotebut you're moving towards non-GS territory.
Well, that is the general idea.
No, what I meant is you're starting to move outside the scope of the base you're working on. While I don't see anything directly preventing this from being accomplished by hacking GS, when you're planning a project with this much original content and differences in game mechanics, you have to consider what you actually get from the original game, and if you could achieve a similar or better result by making a new game altogether.
And about something else, Shinigami brings up an interesting point in that the Puella Magi kind of does have a society among themselves, if you wanted to include some sort of trading system, maybe you could somehow use that as the basis for it.
Umm, no, this isn't anything the community hack isn't doing. Replacing graphics, tweaking and using new formulas, using new effects... Yeah, this is all stuff that's generally planned, though the formulas and effects will require someone skilled with ASM editing.
Well, I guess that'd work to an extent. The problem with that, though, is that usually there's only one or two puella magi to a city. That's why I don't think it'll work, and that it'd probably be a better idea to use them as the occasional fight, with a Soul Fragment as the end prize - either from killing them, or taking one they've found.
Technically, that's true. Practically, if you have all this new art, music and the whole script/story, you have the greater part of a game. At that point, you're not really getting anything unique from GS anymore. The community hack is different, it's meant to be in the same style as the original games, a lot of graphics can be reused and it makes sense to have the exact same user interface. I can see why you'd want to reuse the basic stuff from GS though, I'm sure it would fit quite well for something like this too, and all of what you're planning so far is entirely doable within the confines of the game. If this becomes a hack or a completely new game doesn't really make any difference to me, it's just something I think you should keep in mind. The difference between the two is very small.
QuoteAt that point, you're not really getting anything unique from GS anymore.
The main battle system, the djinn system, the class system, the amazing element system... there's a lot of things I'm getting out of it. The whole point of the hack, though, is to make a very un-GS like game with the base Golden Sun system still in tact, and with the editor.
Basically, the goal is to make a whole new game with Golden Sun's system as the base.
As for player sprite size... Ever play Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories? The original one, not the PS2 remake. I was thinking something like Sora and Riku's sprites in terms of size on the world map. Larger than GS's sprites, but nothing too terribly big.
The thing you're really getting from the base is animations. The "camera" in battle would be particularly hard to replicate, or at least I suspect it would. The things you mentioned is just a bunch of formulas that have already been written, there's no reason you couldn't use them for a different game.
Actually, changing stuff like damage formulas in the game is way harder than rewriting them in a conventional programming language, while the latter would also allow for additional attrubutes for characters and any kind of fine tuning you'd want to implement.
I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to convince you to switch to something else, I just want you to be aware of this.
Without bothering to check KH's sprite size, I'll just say that as long as you keep within the preset 32x32, you're fine. If not, you're in for a headache.
I figured there'd be no reason to bother changing the battle camera, it works just fine. The only thing about the battles themselves that'd change is the art style. The MCs would have more of an anime-ish feel instead of the flattened 3D look. As for the familiars and witches, their art style depends on them and their barriers, just as the anime. But how the battles play out? There's no point to using the GS system if I didn't keep the camera and way the battle plays out.
@Formulas: We know. We've already had this discussion for DCrisis. We'd have to do a custom ASM job, something a bit outside what the editor itself will be able to do. This is why we've got members looking into the ASM - both to get formula editing, one of the things we've asked for from the start, but we're also got them looking into it for the sake of new effects.
@Sprite size: Yup, that's the idea. It's a bit bigger than GS, and the layout will make it look like the camera is a bit closer, but most of it is just fudging it a bit.
There's an entire set of threads dedicated to that, Jiten, please, just look them up or google it.
Also, there's never been big projects like this. Most people keep quiet about their big stuff, I've been wanting to do something like this for a very long time now, but without any idea as to what it was. I got hit by the inspiration train, got out of the hospital, then had the idea.
Okay, gonna talk about a couple things in this edit. First, when doing a bit of research on the Puella Magi wiki, turns out that all of the skill names are in Italian, while before I'd thought they used different languages. This means that all four characters, to match with the style of the series, will have skill names in italian.
Second is shout outs. This game knows the roots of its code, and you'll see it from place to place. Arguably the biggest example could be Harumi's magic style, which will be as close to pre-existing psynergy as I can get it in terms of animation. I may have to tweak appearance a bit, but in terms of attack animations, even in my head I envision GS style animations there, with her attacks being the most obvious.
Second is the battle arena. It's the exact same layout, though isometric and in the artistic style of the game. NPC placement is exactly the same, though save for five of them they'll be generic puella magi sprites. The five exceptions, though, are a bit notable - the music woman, who I hope to say the same lines as in TLA, and with the same "hold R and talk" thing. As for the other four, while the three teammates will be standing where Piers, Garet, and Isaac are, at the table will be... the four squires from the golden sun games - Isaac, Felix, Matt, and... Amiti the Aqua Squire, recreated with sprites to match the art style of the game. Talking to either of them will get a mini-scene where Isaac, Felix, and Matt will simply go :um: , in that order, with Amiti making some kind of a remark about how they don't say anything. They won't have face portraits, I don't think, but the joke should be very obvious to any GS player.
The game also knows the roots of the story, and there'll be remarks within the game about it, such as "There's no such thing as a selfless wish, we all made wishes that had something for us to gain out of it. Those that don't believe it usually don't get the outcome they were expecting (reference to Sayaka). I imagine that if someone did make such a wish, they'd truly be a goddess among the puella magi." (reference to Madoka) Because they've also got Oriko in the background, there'll be obvious references to it. As mentioned before, I plan to have Soul Fragments representing Mami, Kyoko, and Yuma, as well as both direct and indirect references to the events that occurred in the manga.
...Just watch the anime. The Oriko Manga is done, grab a scanlation and read it. Also read up on Kazumi while you're at it. I will NOT provide links, as I have already stated in the first post.
Google. Use it.
Please do not just arbitrarily bump threads. Instead, edit your post and simply mention something in the cbox.
Do I have anyone to make sprites? No. This is something I'd have to hunt down. I don't think anyone here will be able to pull off the style I'm looking for. Hell, many won't even want to work on it. I do know Misery said they'd like to make some character art, but other than that I don't know if I'll have anyone assisting me.
@ role: could you please post an example of this style?
I'm not going to post a torrent of the anime, I've already discussed this. If you really want more examples, I'll link you to the wiki again, but the style for sprites, I can't help you there. I need a sprite artist for that, and I don't have the artistic skill needed to imitate a style of art.
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Characters
The styles differ based on real world setting/location and characters vs witch's barrier, which will largely be independent, just like the source.
If you are unfamiliar with the source, please familiarize yourself before asking for samples or anything else. That means watch the anime, read the Oriko manga, read the Kazumi manga, hell, read the manga version of Madoka while you're at it. Familiarize yourself with how fanart is typically done for the series too.
...Why did you put that in quotes? Just talk normally...
Quote from: Jiten on 06, November, 2011, 10:30:51 AM
"I'll take a look and scout around and see what I can get, then I'll get the programs and see if I can do what needs to be done." "In the meantime, I'll look over the info some more and see what the details are and scan it all..."
First off, have you watched the anime? That's a simple way to find out if you're interested in helping out to begin with. That is, if you liked it, you'd probably be interested in this as well. It's short and sweet at 12 episodes, and there are several places where you can watch it online.
Anyway, Role... have you considered trying to learn the necessary skills yourself? It may be somewhat difficult to get into, but I think most hackers just try to learn stuff because they want to change games on their own. That's how it has been for me at least.
(Just don't try to learn art, as it would put me out of a job :Sweat:)
I don't think they have. Hell, they asked me for a sample of the art... I'll try to do what I can, but stuff like learning the art and what not... that takes years of practice, and I hope to have this released before I'd be good enough as an artist to do the art...
As for the programming things that are needed, yes, I do intend to learn them. I expect to do most of the work myself, so it's gonna be a necessity.
Yes, I was mainly thinking about the technical stuff. I already said I'd give you a hand with the art for this (but it's still worth considering for future projects...). I'd help with actual graphics and sprites as well, but I realize it's quite a huge undertaking and I probably won't have time for it. Maybe later on when you have something more substantial, you could advertise this elsewhere and hopefully get a good spriter interested.
Well, to be honest, this hack is probably at least two years off before I start any real work on it. Until then, I can brainstorm how I want to do it and type up and alpha script, but in terms of actual work, I want to work up to this. That's why I'm starting small and ending with this. First comes the tweaks, in the form of TLA Remix. Then comes the original story. Then comes this, which is the reworking. Once the other two projects are finished, work will really begin to take off on this. For all we know, you may be very much less busy by the time this becomes more than just talk, so let's worry more about it when we get to it.
Until then, though, you're welcome to do character sketches and stuff if you want, nobody's stopping you there, but actual sprite work and what not we may want to hold off on until later.
Quotethis hack is probably at least two years off before I start any real work on it.
this is just about every big hack on this site...
Quote from: zman9000 on 08, December, 2011, 01:28:35 AM
Quotethis hack is probably at least two years off before I start any real work on it.
this is just about every big hack on this site...
With damn good reason. You can't do it if you don't have a completed editor. I am, quite literally, being held back by its slow development.
Yes but he is taking apart a game that took a few years to make, by more then one person. he has to decode every part of the game and program another program to work with it. he also has a life, plus his job doesn't exactly make it easy. add in the fact that to work on a big project like this and get it done at a good pace you need a few people working on it. and it has to be people in the same place other wise two people working on it might end up with two different projects and the whole thing will be a mess.
Basically there is NOTHING anyone can do to speed up its progress.
You think I don't know that? What exactly are you trying to say here, z? If you're trying to pick a fight, I'll just have to report you for it. I know damn good and well why it's taking so long, that's why I'm being rather patient about it. That's why I'm estimating AT LEAST TWO YEARS before I even think about starting this.
If you have nothing good to say or contribute, get out.
Zman has a legitimate point. Atrius has a life, give him a break. All you can do is at this point do everything that you can that is possible with the editor and hold tight for the next release.
Uh, no. No he doesn't. I specifically said this wasn't happening for years BECAUSE I have to give time for atrius to finish. Don't just spin this to make it sound like I'm trying to push atrius.
True, but he's not trying to disband the whole project, he's more just like "well there's not much you can do until Atrius is done".
The way he put it, it sounded like he was chewing me out for trying to rush Atrius, when I have done no such thing in this thread.
QuoteThe way he put it, it sounded like he was chewing me out for trying to rush Atrius, when I have done no such thing in this thread.
Sorry about that, its just me failing to word things right so people understand I'm just pointing something out, not smacking you in the face with it...
Yeah... the thing is, Atrius is not only one person, but he's one person stuck in the military. He's got darn good reasons for taking this long, so the best thing to do here is to be patient and simply ask for the occasional status update.
This hack probably won't be done for a very long time to come - at least 2 years after a version of the editor that can handle most of it is released. Besides, usually when I pester Atrius about updates it's in the Cbox, not in a thread.
New information added - Unleashes section edited into Game Mechanics post. Feel free to comment or make suggestions.
QuoteAtrius is not only one person
I know. He's actually 3 people, a fish, and a dog. (out of context ftw)
As for the unleashes, it sounds interesting, but can it be done? An upgrading Unleash system sounds cool in theory. But first, implementing that is another thing. And you are going to have different weapons right? so when switching to a new weapon, you can right away use the best level of the item right away if the level? Doesn't this mean that they may miss some unleashes?
Two things. Dark Dawn had maybe a few interesting things i can point out. first The swords leveled and unlocked more unleash versions. Second the down side is you could use more then one per weapon. And its picked randomly.
So if you could do what dark dawn did, minus the multi-unleash thing, and they upgrade instead, I think that would be good (at least from my point of view).
(anything i misunderstood or got wrong let me know...)
Do you have anything to say about my actual hack idea and the edits I've made, or are you still trying to pick pointless fights with me?
nuuuuuuuuuuu!!!
I put this just in case...
(anything i misunderstood or got wrong let me know...)
looks like i need to make it bold....
first off
this
QuoteNew information added - Unleashes section edited into Game Mechanics post.
and
QuoteUnleashes
Unlike in Golden Sun, unleashes behave differently in this hack. As the Puella Magi levels up, they will have a chance of preforming a quick skill rather than a standard attack. This skill is unique to the Puella Magi, and the strength, attack type, and rate of attack differs based on the puella magi themselves. Unleashes do not have the same power as actual skills, however.
Suzuko: Strongest skill of the group, strength based multiplier (1.55x?). Rate is 50% of current level.
Kaoru: Skill uses agility as basis for power, ignores 30% of target's defense (alternatively, if possible, ignores a percentage of defense based on 75% of Kaoru's level). Rate is 75% of current level.
Harumi: Skill uses Max MP as basis for power, low powered multiplier (1.35x?). Rate is 65% of current level.
Maiko: Skill chooses random from Strength, Agility, and Max MP based attack (animation matches which base it uses). Multiplier, likely (1.35?). Rate is 90% of current level. As an added note, remember that Maiko is likely 2nd best in these areas. The higher unleash rate balances the jack of trades nature of the character... or at least, that's the idea.
These skills are not particularly flashy or spectacular, but rather are meant to act as a step up from critical attacks, as well as allow a more reliable attack command for when conserving MP is required.
I think i misunderstood what you meant with the unleashes... ... fuken terms and details.
[{(Is this unleashes for attacks, if so, is this weapons, if so, unleashes unlocked at different levels sounds bad because some of the things i said in the above post!)}]
Zman, please understand that I have a severe dislike of repeating myself, especially when information you need is in the very post you just quoted.
My frustration with you stems from this:
Bringing back up the fight you tried to pick with me over Atrius
Not reading the post you are trying to refer to, which answers the question you had.
I mean... multiple weapons? Really? When it's established in the info posts that they have one weapon, which is unmovable, since it's their soul gem itself?
First off, what fight with atrius???
Second, O shi- ... I didn't read it fully.
So I was thinking you were going to have different weapons they would switch to, but they could only switch to a soul gem that's their color. like you would have upgrade/find soul gems, that would have one or two slightly better unleashes over time...
better soul gem = better weapon... same kinda thing. that way they would get stronger as you travel... i guess.
But yes i guess i skimmed over the part i needed... sorry
...Zman, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, do you? Have you watched Madoka Magica? If so, you should know the problems with what you're suggesting.
Know the source material better before you start making suggestions. I can't go against the source material - that's why I changed all of the characters to using Italian attack names, because after looking stuff up, I realized that all named attacks in the Puella Magi franchise have been in Italian. It's very important to stay true to the source material for doujin games like this.
So yeah, I've realized that. and yes I've seen the show. I'm just thinking, what you want to do here, and how it will work with the code and such... I'd think it would be easier to make your own game engine. I could be wrong and all this stuff could be a quick fix in the game and editor code. But I don't know, I haven't read all your topic's stuff, so I guess I'll just refrain from commenting, I'm not even up to date on the DC hack... lol
This project has its deadline set pretty far off in an undefined future, and I can't imagine any of the suggested formula tweaks would cause any technical difficulties with the game engine. The only problem is actually finding out how and where the game uses those formulas.
I'm more worried about the music tbh. Finding someone who could and would compose a soundtrack at Kajiura Yuki level, for free, on the GBA... I just can't see that happening.
As for the actual unleash suggestion, if I'm understanding it right, you would still have accessories that could boost the unleash rate, but also increase the rate based on the character's level? I think it could work, you would see nearly no unleashes at the start of the game, and possibly a lot at endgame. There isn't much more to comment on about it. Maiko's unleash seems a bit out of flavor to me though, while I understand your motivation for it I'd stick with attack or possibly MP as the stat, otherwise her unique formula coupled with the high rate makes it somewhat of a speciality in a sense.
I also don't see how the game can have a postgame with the current setting, and players probably won't reach level 99 naturally... but you know to scale the odds according to the expected endgame level already.
I don't see it happening either, which is why I never said I'd do it for free. It's well known that I'm willing to pay for art and music, so long as I see it as being worth what I paid for.
As for the unleash rate...
You have their weapon, which is their Soul Gem, has their initial unleash rate, which is based on their level.
Accessories can add on a static value to that.
For example, let's look at Suzuko. She's got the lowest unleash rate at 50%, so lets say that at this time, you're level 46. Her base unleash rate is now 23%
She has an accessory that boosts this unleash rate by 5%, so her final unleash rate would be 28%.
But if you do that you... where do I start? Why would you pay for content and then put it on a GBA rom hack?
*sigh*
It's tough when they don't make the games you want, isn't it?
It is. It really is. And unfortunately, most artists are not willing to do art or music for free, even if you have a project, and those that do tend to be really bad at it.
You're the rare exception here.