Golden Sun Hacking Community

Okay, this thread is being started because I have not found a thread anywhere else that is similar.

Okay, so basically, the idea of this topic is to say what you think would be neat if it were in either Golden Sun, or to talk about other people's ideas (including stating your ideas about their idead).

Okay, so here is my idea, probably for Golden Sun 2...

I add 4 more characters without replacing any...

:Jupiter: Kirby will be a Jupiter adept, unable to equip any weapons (or should I add hammers in the game?). Maybe he will be traveling with Isaac's company...

:Venus: Link will be a Venus adept, able to use swords and bows (it would be cool to see them). I might add a village of elves on an island, and he is a traveler who walked through a portal...

:Mars: Mario will be a fire adept, able to jump on enemies if he has boots equipped, punch if no boots, or use a hammer if they are equipped (will ignore boots). All boots will have an unleash, 30%, that will use either a fire psynergy, or I will add one when possible that is a fireball. I guess I can make him stay in the Dwarf Town... What was the name again? However, I will make it so Kirby has to be in your team before Mario joins you.

:Mercury: Yoshi will be a Mercury adept, unable to use any equipable weapons, but he has a permanent weapon which is his tongue. Maybe if it is possible in the future, then I will add a new psynergy, wich will be called Egg Throw. He will either be with Jenna from the start, or he will find the group on Idejima and wake Felix up before he joins the party.

So... How does everyone like my fantasy hacked characters?
Please post your ideas for hacks for other people to see.
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Oh maiz.

Sounds interesting.

For the characters without weapons, could it be possible to raise their power through other methods? I.E. similar to forging a weapon?

Role and I were actually thinking about doing a Pokemon version, but instead of changing the people, we'd change the monsters and the summons :3

QuoteOh maiz.

Sounds interesting.

For the characters without weapons, could it be possible to raise their power through other methods? I.E. similar to forging a weapon?

Role and I were actually thinking about doing a Pokemon version, but instead of changing the people, we'd change the monsters and the summons :3

Oh cool, that is a good idea. I was actually thinking of replacing enemies and bosses (not all of them) with enemies from other games, including pokemon.

Anyway, about the characters with no weapons, like Yoshi, we can change how their stats raise as they level up. I think the stat editor works, so maybe at level 0, Yoshi would have 50 hp instead of 29, etc.

Another problem that I thought about though is Djinn. If there are 7 for each character, then I have to add 28 more djinn (or edit the dummies and add fewer), or change the classes somehow.

Oh yeah, I am also planning on replacing music as well. The World Map Theme for Felix can become Hyrule Field theme, and sailing on the boat can become Pokemon Surfing music. I might also add a new battle music, if Mario is in a group without Felix, Isaac, and Jenna (I will add Super Mario RPG fighting music).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

P.S. Charon and Role, you should replace the enemies with Pokemon, I think that would be fun to play. However, I can think of some enemies that you might have to edit pokemon for closer matches though (like Doom Dragon).

Quote from: Salanewt on 16, June, 2009, 08:46:00 AMOkay, this thread is being started because I have not found a thread anywhere else that is similar.

Okay, so basically, the idea of this topic is to say what you think would be neat if it were in either Golden Sun, or to talk about other people's ideas (including stating your ideas about their idead).

Okay, so here is my idea, probably for Golden Sun 2...

I add 4 more characters without replacing any...

:Jupiter: Kirby will be a Jupiter adept, unable to equip any weapons (or should I add hammers in the game?). Maybe he will be traveling with Isaac's company...

:Venus: Link will be a Venus adept, able to use swords and bows (it would be cool to see them). I might add a village of elves on an island, and he is a traveler who walked through a portal...

:Mars: Mario will be a fire adept, able to jump on enemies if he has boots equipped, punch if no boots, or use a hammer if they are equipped (will ignore boots). All boots will have an unleash, 30%, that will use either a fire psynergy, or I will add one when possible that is a fireball. I guess I can make him stay in the Dwarf Town... What was the name again? However, I will make it so Kirby has to be in your team before Mario joins you.

:Mercury: Yoshi will be a Mercury adept, unable to use any equipable weapons, but he has a permanent weapon which is his tongue. Maybe if it is possible in the future, then I will add a new psynergy, wich will be called Egg Throw. He will either be with Jenna from the start, or he will find the group on Idejima and wake Felix up before he joins the party.

So... How does everyone like my fantasy hacked characters?
Please post your ideas for hacks for other people to see.
Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

That is interesting. I myself, would like to add some people from Fire Emblem : Sword of Seals and Blazing Sword (Sos not release in America and BS is Fire Emblem in America) and have them as enemies when it's possible (and if i knew how by then)

Kirby wields many weapons in his games, why not here? He should not be able to wield axes or long swords, but all other weapons would be fine. (just use a Dedede Hammer sprite for maces).

@Role: Would you be so kind as to combine my posts in the other thread regarding this and move them here?

Also, perhaps Kirby could be hiding in a house in Contigo? Maybe hidden somewhere where you would never think to look, like behind a bookshelf or something? Or you could hide him in a Force stump.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 16 2009, 01:42 PM

Oh, sorry, it is just that I play few Kirby games. The most that I have played of Kirby is Super Smash Bros. series...

Anyway, I will probably give Kirby weapons, since I have been thinking, and... Well, he seems too weak without weapons.

QuoteKirby wields many weapons in his games, why not here? He should not be able to wield axes or long swords, but all other weapons would be fine. (just use a Dedede Hammer sprite for maces).

@Role: Would you be so kind as to combine my posts in the other thread regarding this and move them here?

Also, perhaps Kirby could be hiding in a house in Contigo? Maybe hidden somewhere where you would never think to look, like behind a bookshelf or something? Or you could hide him in a Force stump.

Role, if you do decide to move Jamie's comments, then could you also please move mine? You do not have to if you do not want to, which is obvious, but please?

Yeah, I might do that instead of being with Isaac's team. Unless he is unconscious during the fight, then he could rescue Mia and Garet (but I am not planning on doing that, since only Garet is in trouble... Why doesn't he fall? Felix jumped off of Venus Lighthouse).

Oh yeah, it would be cool to see different animations for djinn (when equipped to characters). For example, one might be the normal animation, while another might be slightly different (so they do not all look identical).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 16 2009, 03:28 PM

Quote from: Salanewt on 17, June, 2009, 01:41:00 AMYeah, I might do that instead of being with Isaac's team. Unless he is unconscious during the fight, then he could rescue Mia and Garet (but I am not planning on doing that, since only Garet is in trouble... Why doesn't he fall? Felix jumped off of Venus Lighthouse).

It would make a lot of sense for Kirby to do that, considering he can float. Or you could have a scene where Isaac and friends beat him up because he ate the Mars Star, then have them get ambushed immediately afterwards.

Another idea which might be interesting would be to have Knuckle Joe as a summon (Vulcan Jab! *bambambambambam*, Risiiiiiiiing Break!!! *Smash*)

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 16 2009, 05:19 PM

QuoteIt would make a lot of sense for Kirby to do that, considering he can float. Or you could have a scene where Isaac and friends beat him up because he ate the Mars Star, then have them get ambushed immediately afterwards.

Another idea which might be interesting would be to have Knuckle Joe as a summon (Vulcan Jab! *bambambambambam*, Risiiiiiiiing Break!!! *Smash*)

Oh cool, that is a good idea featuring Kirby... Maybe there should be someone telling the others not to assault the pink marshmallow... Should it either be Mia or Ivan (or both) that tells the other two to leave Kirby alone?

By the way, I am planning on changing some of the summons, but who is Knuckle Joe?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

.

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 16 2009, 08:02 PM

An enemy from the Kirby games, also shows up in Brawl as an assist trophy.

(http://www.serebii.net/ssbb/assist/knucklejoe.jpg)

Oh yeah, I remember that guy! I did not know he was from Kirby though... Makes you think a bit... Anyway, I really like brawl, but no Brawl disc will work on my Wii, so it has to be repaired... My best character is Yoshi by the way...


Anyway, is that Knuckle Joe? I think that would be cool as a summon.

Oh yeah, if I can successfully add these four characters in the game, and make them different than everyone else (but still good), then I will add another set of 4.

However, this set of four will not be added unless there is a way to add the world of Golden Sun 1 into Golden Sun 2, or else there will be too many characters...

Oh yeah, I might try to add an item (when then editor allows that to happen) that will bestow the lost psynergy Magnet/Magic Circle. If it is possible, then I will make it so if an item (not hidden (items that are revealed will not count)) is inside the circle, then the item will drift to the center, and the main character will pick it up.

EDIT: I might have thought of a good idea... Instead of a summon (lets have Dedede as a summon), we can make Knuckle Joe act like Avoid. Maybe, if it is possible with the editor in the future, this enemy will circle the main character for a second ot two, throwing punches away from the main character.

If I do this, then I am also going to add other psynergies, such as Sticky Shot (works for both Yoshi's tongue and Link's hookshot), which will be like lash, except that there is no rope (will not work if there is rope). I will also add Egg throw (Yoshi only, battle only), Arrow (battle + world map (will have more uses), Link will know it, and every bow that I will add in the game will have a 100% chance of unleashing it). Kirby will have Jamie's ideas, Copy and Delete, as well as Swallow (Yoshi will have this too, and it will heal the user and damage the enemy).

Of course, I will have to edit the dummy spells, but this can be done. As well, Mario will be able to use Jump (will act like Levitate, but can be used anywhere (will hopefully not react to Levitate circles) and is shorter).

Does anybody like these ideas?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 16 2009, 06:57 PM

Yeah, that's Knuckle Joe all right, beating the shizz out of Lucario XD. And besides, I thought Dedede was a boss? Knuckle Joe's Rising Break would look cool in a summon though, or maybe Knuckle Joe could be an enemy, and the Minotaur Psynergy in the Beast Lord class would be replaced with him using Rising Break (making it Wind Element again, like in all previous classes in the series, and giving it as high a Crit. Chance as Gryphon has.)

Also, I think Kirby should learn Death Plunge (up throw from Brawl, anybody?) You might want to edit in his down throw Fury Stomps as well.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 16 2009, 07:47 PM

QuoteYeah, that's Knuckle Joe all right, beating the shizz out of Lucario XD. And besides, I thought Dedede was a boss? Knuckle Joe's Rising Break would look cool in a summon though, or maybe Knuckle Joe could be an enemy, and the Minotaur Psynergy in the Beast Lord class would be replaced with him using Rising Break (making it Wind Element again, like in all previous classes in the series, and giving it as high a Crit. Chance as Gryphon has.)

Perfect! I like your ideas Jamie. Can you think of anything else about Kirby that you think I should add in the game? I know little about Kirby (compared to Zelda or Mario). I am also thinking of putting in Meta Knight as a boss (I will add bosses, when possible (instead of just replacing them)), as well as Bowser, Lugia, and maybe even Birdo... I might also replace the Wise One with Wart from Majora's Mask...

EDIT: I just thought of a really good idea. Does everyone remember Tundaria? It is the continent that only has the Tower and a Jupiter Djinni (other things inside the tower, and enemies both inside and outside of it). Well, I am now planning on adding a large area of world map, as well as a small town, when the map editor has been added... I hope that it will be possible to add areas, not just edit them. I might also use the elf sprites, and the unused enemies. A village of Ice-elves... Well, does anybody else like this idea, or should I put different inhabitants in there?

EDIT 2: Does anybody know how I can get the graphics/images of the world map? I am planning on editing what I can with Photoshop Suite...

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 17 2009, 04:51 PM

QuoteThat is interesting. I myself, would like to add some people from Fire Emblem : Sword of Seals and Blazing Sword (Sos not release in America and BS is Fire Emblem in America) and have them as enemies when it's possible (and if i knew how by then)

Cool. I was thinking of putting in enemies from Fire Emblem as well.

I might put in enemies from the following games/game series:
Mario/Yoshi
Zelda
Fire Emblem
Pokemon
Kirby (do not know much about it)
Fox (never played it)
Metroid (Only know of the floating brains)
Final Fantasy (dislike it, only want a reference to get more people interested in the hack)
Shadowrun (Awesome game, but not a large variety of monsters...)
Sonic (do not know much about it)
Um...

If anybody else has any ideas, as well as which monsters should be replaced, please tell me. I am already going to make the Jellyfish monsters become Tentacool (or Blooper), and the Fungus monsters become Goombas. Posiedon might become Lugia or the legendary water type from the third generation... I will reduce the amount of Chestbeaters to 1, replace it with Donkey Kong (based on the arcade game, Donkey Kong) and make him a boss later in the game.

Anyway, have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 16 2009, 01:10 PM

Stat ideas: (base classes)

Mario:
HP: 110%
PP: 110%
Attack: 100%
Defence: 100%
Agility: 100%
Luck: 100%

Kirby:
HP: 110%
PP: 100%
Attack: 100%
Defence: 110%
Agility: 120%
Luck: 80%

Link:
HP: 130%
PP: 80%
Attack: 130%
Defence: 110%
Agility: 80%
Luck: 90%

Yoshi:
HP: 110%
PP: 120%
Attack: 90%
Defence: 130%
Agility: 80%
Luck: 120%

Before you go complaining that Yoshi is broken, remember that he cannot equip weapons.

Also, Kirby should learn a Psynergy series called Chef that goes Chef -> Gourmet Chef. It is a healing Psynergy, and heals/stat boosts the entire party based on what item(s) you use for it. (Lucky Pepper + Hard Nut + Gourmet Chef = Spicy Peanuts (Increase Luck and Defence of the entire party permanently). Large Bread + Herb + Gourmet Chef = Garlic Bread.) Chef can only have 1 item used for it, while Gourmet Chef can have up to 3.

QuoteMario:
HP: 110%
PP: 110%
Attack: 100%
Defence: 100%
Agility: 100%
Luck: 100%

Kirby:
HP: 110%
PP: 100%
Attack: 100%
Defence: 110%
Agility: 120%
Luck: 80%

Link:
HP: 130%
PP: 80%
Attack: 130%
Defence: 110%
Agility: 80%
Luck: 90%

Yoshi:
HP: 110%
PP: 120%
Attack: 90%
Defence: 130%
Agility: 80%
Luck: 120%

Thanks for the stats Jamie, I think they are well suited for the characters.

QuoteBefore you go complaining that Yoshi is broken, remember that he cannot equip weapons.

I was actually not planning on saying that Yoshi is broken. In fact, I think that if he has higher attack, then he would be too powerful compared to the others. However, his attack should be a bit higher, since the other characters will have higher attack when they weild weapons, so that would make Yoshi's attack even lower. So... actually, this is good. I will make his armour raise his attack stats a tiny bit. He will also have a slightly higher attack raising bonus when he gets to higher levels, like 40 or higher.

I also realized that I was ignoring armour. Yoshi and Mario will have custom armour sets, Link will have robes and metallic armours, and Kirby will be able to use robes... By the way, is Kirby a male or a female? I forget now. Oh yeah, any ideas on what types of armours I should have for them? Yoshi might have Eggshell armour, and other things, Mario will have similar things that are in his other games, etc...

QuoteAlso, Kirby should learn a Psynergy series called Chef that goes Chef -> Gourmet Chef. It is a healing Psynergy, and heals/stat boosts the entire party based on what item(s) you use for it. (Lucky Pepper + Hard Nut + Gourmet Chef = Spicy Peanuts (Increase Luck and Defence of the entire party permanently). Large Bread + Herb + Gourmet Chef = Garlic Bread.) Chef can only have 1 item used for it, while Gourmet Chef can have up to 3.

Ooh, I like this idea. If I can do this, and if I can create psynergies, then Kirby will have a unique class system, and not be another Ivan clone. I think it would be neat to have something like Waiter, Chef, Gourmet Chef, Master Chef, Culiminary Master... Just for a larger class selection... But I like it, that way, Kirby can be more unique than everyone else. I should do something like this for the other new characters as well, thanks.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 17 2009, 05:12 PM

I was thinking Kirby's (Kirby is male) end class should be called Star Warrior, because that's what he spends the entire TV show trying to become. He IS Meta Knight's apprentice, after all.

Edit: Mario should learn the Fire series, considering he likes to throw fireballs at stuff.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 17 2009, 05:23 PM

Oh cool. So, he will be able to become a Star Warrior... Which means that there will more class sets. Oh yeah, if he is a male, then I will have to have another set of characters (to include some more female characters)... I might have to make the game much harder, as well as the enemies, but it could be done. So, the current Golden Sun roster includes...
Isaac,
garet,
Ivan,
Mia,
Felix,
Jenna,
Sheba,
Peirs,
Mario,
Kirby,
Link,
Yoshi.
Any other ideas for more characters? I am planning on adding a whole new area, Southern Tundaria, as well as the places from Golden Sun 1 accessible.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 17 2009, 05:21 PM

I don't think you need Southern Tundaria, you just need to add a town at the very western edge of the continent. Hesperia and Atteka could use some more towns as well.

QuoteI don't think you need Southern Tundaria, you just need to add a town at the very western edge of the continent. Hesperia and Atteka could use some more towns as well.

Oh yeah, your are right. I am definately planning on putting more towns in those areas. However, in Tundaria, I might just remove some of the mountains that are already there, and that way, I can have maybe two towns. One farther to the west, and the other one somewhere in the east. I might also put more in small patches of land that you do not have access to, and they are not areas from Golden sun 1. Between the two entranced to Dekhan Plateau, for example, there is a tiny bit of green land therem , as well as a few tiny trees, and a little bit of a path. I think I might add a new island too... Maybe a place where Yoshi joins the party...

I might also add another cave. Not one with a summon tablet in it, but maybe with a town in it. It could probably have the same blockset as the Madran Catacombs... I also see much more potential for the snowy area of Prox, and the surrounding landscape.

I might put Southern Tundaria as an optional training area, but I am starting to have different ideas about having it now.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Additionally, why is every town in Golden Sun just  a single city-state, without any countries? I think that Hesperia and Atteka should have a freaking country on each of them. Indra could use more towns as well.

Also, it would be interesting to have some characters who join your party temporarily, then leave the party, only to join again later. Maybe have Kirby join in for the fight against Briggs, then leave. Have Yoshi start with the party after waking Felix up, then leave after Piers joins. Then have him join the party for the fight against the Avimander before leaving again. Kirby should show up for the fight against the Serpent in Gaia Rock, and the battle against Agatio and Karst. Maybe Mario could show up for the battle against Poseidon.

Oh yeah, that would be cool. However, I think that after they join, then leave, there should be a point when they come with you for good, just so you can have them for Doom Dragon. Oh yeah, I am thinking of changing the storyline a tiny bit... I might replace the Golden Sun as the source of Alchemy with the Triforce... Or better yet, a Golden Egg... ... ...

Anyway, as soon as I start getting in some changes (the most that I can do right now is to change the music), then I will work on other things, so I can make it a patch. I will make it possible for people to apply the patch when I can also edit text.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

Any other ideas?

I might have some characters that are only temporary characters, but you can talk to them whenever you want (maybe after you defeat Donkey Kong, you can talk to him any time you want... I am also thinking of giving him customized psynergies, such as barrel toss)...

I was thinking, yes those four should join you for good, eventually, and not all at once. Would it be possible to have 2 storylines going on at once? So you play as one team for a while, then get to a certain point and... *autosave* *poof!* You are playing as a different group somewhere else! Maybe that could explain how the "Nintendo Four" got separated in the first place.

Oh yeah, this is a very good idea. By the way, if I successfully have the entire storyline (places from GS1, then autosave to control Jenna, maybe), then I will definately do this. Except, it will be more often, not just a team switch at the end. Oh yeah, I am now thinking of doing this, and Yoshi will be controlled for most of the switches. I might also break up Isaac's party...

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

By the way, the Nintendo 4 might become the Nintendo 8, but only if I can have more towns, all of the GS 1 areas, and some added areas on continents (maybe more area to be explored in the North (near Prox), and a tiny bit in Tundaria (but not so most of the game is there)).

Maybe add some previous areas, including the previous 2 Lighthouses and Babi Lighthouse, in.

Zelda: Fire Element. However, she should learn Teleport as a level up spell, because in Brawl she knows Farore's Wind, which is a teleport spell. Put her in Babi Lighthouse. She should also learn Din's Fire, which is pretty much just an overglorified Fire element version of the Star Magician's Mine Ball. If you can fix Reflect so that it works, then give her that too. Maybe change it's name to Nayru's Love, which is her Ice element Reflect spell in Brawl.

Peach: Earth, due to her Turnip-flinging skills. Learns Hover as a level up move, and is hiding in Venus Lighthouse.

Falco: Wind element, and should learn a move called Blaster Shot, which can stun the enemy. Also should learn a move called Rapid Fire, which is pretty much just Mad Zephyr only with blaster rounds. Also learns Falco Phantasm, which is his Side B from Brawl and Melee. Probably make it automatically strike first, or have a chance of instant-deathing the enemy. Maybe you should hide him in the Suhalla Desert. Or in Lumpa Palace, and have him learn Cloak instead of Mind Read. He should also learn a re-animated version of Reveal called Radar after a certain level. Maybe he should learn Reflect as well.

I'm fresh out of ideas. Do you have an idea for the Mercury elemental? If so, they should be hidden in Mercury Lighthouse.

Oh yeah, I am planning on adding all of the areas from GS1 into GS2. I like your ideas about Peach and Zelda, and I had thought about adding them as alternates for Mario and Link. However, I would rather have Link and Mario AND Peach and Zelda. Interesting, Falco as fire... What about Fox? I do not often play Fox games though, so you will have to tell me a tiny bit more about them please.

And as for the other mercury... I chose Yoshi before because I could not think of one... I might have Princess Ruto from Ocarina of Time, but she is not a main character, and I am sure that I can think of someone else... How about Lucas, from the Earthbound games? I have not played Earthbound before either though...

I would get some of these games, but the used game store that is nearby closed in the past month or two, and is now for rent...

As for learning Teleport, Hover, and Cloak should be learned, but at higher levels (maybe in the 70's), or else I would be able to go to Jupiter Lighthouse without actually fighting Moapa (unless I were to raise Peach to high levels... Actually she will be the first female Venus Adept).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

I said Falco was Wind! Anywho, Cloak isn't really used much, so I figured it could be learned at level one. And as for learning moves, maybe in the 50s would be better.

Lucas (from the Earthbound series) might make a good Mercury Adept, but we'd have to bend the rules a bit, because sure he learns PK Freeze, but he also knows PK Fire and PK thunder, as well as PK Shield, which absorbs energy attacks and heals him the exact amount of the damage that would have been dealt.

Oh yeah, sorry, it was Zelda who is fire... Anyway, I have been thinking... As soon as you can start using Revive, then the priests become practically useless. So, I was thinking that maybe either Revive is learned at a later level, or Priests  can be payed to restore your psynergy, and inns will only restore HP. The priests can still revive you, but that will not be the best thing that they can do.

Anyway, we would have to bend the rules a bit for Lucas... Yeah, Cloak would be good at level 1, but the others maybe at level 55-60.

I have another idea for the Mercury Adept... Maybe it can be a pokemon... Can you think of any really popular water types?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

Maybe there can be 3 sets of Characters from other games... I would probably have to make Doom Dragon much stronger though... Maybe 16 000 HP for each head.

OMG MUDKIPZ!!! You said popular water type right? Then either Mudkip or Squirtle. Yeah, priests do become useless though. Maybe have Inns restore both HP and PP, but have priests able to restore your PP for a much lower cost. Also, I was thinking, for the Chef and Gourmet Chef Psys, Item shops would have to start selling food such as Large Bread, and other such items which are only useful for that spell.

Yeah, make the bosses stronger, but don't buff the normal enemies too much. We don't want the regular enemies downing party members like crazy.

QuoteOMG MUDKIPZ!!! You said popular water type right? Then either Mudkip or Squirtle. Yeah, priests do become useless though. Maybe have Inns restore both HP and PP, but have priests able to restore your PP for a much lower cost. Also, I was thinking, for the Chef and Gourmet Chef Psys, Item shops would have to start selling food such as Large Bread, and other such items which are only useful for that spell.

Yeah, make the bosses stronger, but don't buff the normal enemies too much. We don't want the regular enemies downing party members like crazy.

Yeah, I was thinking either Mudkip or Squirtle (or maybe both together as a fighting duo). I am currently working on making the enemies stronger, but I might have overdone it with some enemies, like the ones in the Great Gabomba Statue.

Also, Briggs is really tough... If you do play, you might have to beat Air's Rock, and wander back with more Djinni before it is easier to beat him. I have definitely overdone Aqua Hydra though. Two turns... He kills everyone after a few turns... Oh yeah, all of the Aqua jellies before the Aqua Hydra drop Water of Lifes... But I might have to replace all of the Aqua Hydras in the Eastern sea with their better versions.

Yeah, stores are going to sell the stat boosting items, but they will be more expensive, maybe 12 000 for each item. I will probably make inns heal both HP and PP, but they will cost more money. Also, King Scorpion is a bit easier than Briggs, but he drops MUCH more money.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

If anything, it would make more sense for the Inn to restore only PP and not HP, because PP restores "with time" meaning as you walk around.

The enemies in the Great Gabomba Statue are already overpowered, or at least the Red Demons are. Vital Moon can knock a party member to 1 HP automatically.

I never said stores should sell stat boosting items, I was thinking add more "useless" food like the Large Bread that you give to that kid in Alhafra. Though selling stat boosting items would be interesting.

Also, in the regular game in order to beat Briggs I already had to go and beat Air's Rock first. I fought him about 5 times and lost every single time, so eventually I just gave up and went to Air's Rock.

Aqua Hydra was already hard to beat, even before doing 300 damage per hit with his strange tidal wave attack (it's not Watery Grave, but I forget what it is). Seriously, if the Aqua Hydra does as much damage as I said, then it would take 2 people knowing Wish Well to keep the party alive. Actually, how many times per turn does your version attack?

Since the Rod makes your attack 0, maybe it should restore your PP, since you can't attack?

Also, I'd prefer it to unleash Meteor Blow, which is about the same strength as Watery Grave, and considering the number of Water element bosses, it would be far more useful.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 19 2009, 02:24 PM

QuoteSince the Rod makes your attack 0, maybe it should restore your PP, since you can't attack?

Also, I'd prefer it to unleash Meteor Blow, which is about the same strength as Watery Grave, and considering the number of Water element bosses, it would be far more useful.

It makes sense, but I am not sure if it lowers the character's stats... Just the weapon stats. However, I think I agree with you. It should replenish PP in battle when equipped. However, there are alot of land bosses too... I will probably change the unleash, but I have doubts about Meteor Blow. Maybe Formina Sage, or maybe a healing psynergy...

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

If you want to make it so that the character's attack and defence are 0, set the effect to "Attack x0" and then the defence effect "defence x0".

Of the weapon? I actually did that already. That way, the character would not actually have 0 as their stats.

Have a nice day.

Retreat did not even work in battle.

:MercurySet:  

No, the attack times 0 would make their attack be actually 0. Attack +0 means that their attack doesn't increase. But I have an idea for the weapon's stats:

Attack x0
PP regen +12.
Fire Power +120
Bestows Meteor Blow.

Or is there a Wind Psynergy which might work? If so, change Fire Power +120 to Wind Power +120.

QuoteNo, the attack times 0 would make their attack be actually 0. Attack +0 means that their attack doesn't increase. But I have an idea for the weapon's stats:

Attack x0
PP regen +12.
Fire Power +120
Bestows Meteor Blow.

Or is there a Wind Psynergy which might work? If so, change Fire Power +120 to Wind Power +120.

I like these stats... I am thinking of Formina Sage...

Oh, I made it so the limits for attacks and defense are -128... You can actually have negative numbers, which I like...

I made it so it does not bestow Formina Sage, but it instead has a 100% chance of unleashing it.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

NO NO NO! Formina sage is a Physical Psy, so if your attack is 0, it does no damage. It multiplies your attack by 2.8, so if your attack is 0, then that's 0x2.8=0.

Another idea for the Shaman's Rod's stats:

Attack x0
PP regen +12
extra turn, or however you code that.
Bestows [insert uberpowerful Psynergy here].

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 19 2009, 04:32 PM

QuoteNO NO NO! Formina sage is a Physical Psy, so if your attack is 0, it does no damage. It multiplies your attack by 2.8, so if your attack is 0, then that's 0x2.8=0.

Another idea for the Shaman's Rod's stats:

Attack x0
PP regen +12
extra turn, or however you code that.
Bestows [insert uberpowerful Psynergy here].

Yeah, too bad I did not see this until after I tried it. Anyway, I am not sure exactly how to multiply stat effects... I have to have more practice with the editor. It already gives you an extra turn, and I just realized that you have to get rid of the Shaman's Rod just before Trial Road...

Have a nice day.

I followed your advice, and the weilder will restore around that much PP.

:MercurySet:  

Do me a favour and make me a nice light blade that gives you 2 turns. Maybe the Corsair's Edge? Which also needs a major attack buff, by the way, considering you get it after Lemuria, and it only gives you +90 attack. Maybe it's attack should be 165? That way it's powerful enough to outmatch the stuff you get almost immediately after at Jupiter Lighthouse, and can also outmatch the other stuff you get at Lemuria, and don't have to pay for. On the other hand, considering it's going to give two attacks, maybe just 147 or 155 would do.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 19 2009, 04:53 PM

Okay. I am thinking of 'fixing' some weapons and armour to be better. I am also going to add several of the unused objects, like the herbed shirt. I have two enemies so far that drop those, Wild Wolf and Mini-Goblin. However, before I do anything more, I will have to wait until Monday. I will not be home this weekend (but I still have access to a computer sometimes), and my mom is using her computer, which is where I have the editor.

Also, I am planning on changing Doom Dragon a bit... I might make it so each head has more than 10, 000 HP, maybe even 16, 000.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Well, this Aqua Hydra has 2 attacks per turn, and I made it even more powerful... The attack that you are thinking of is Raging Flood. Felix already has revive, since he is normally a Defender/Swordsman. However, every Aqua Jelly has a 100% chance of dropping a water of life, and the Aqua Hydra will drop a Hermes' Water.

Also, I gave psynergy to Briggs, so he is stronger. I rose his stats and gave him Froth Sphere. You will probably have to go through Air's rock and get more Djinni before you can beat him. Oh yeah, Briggs and Sea Fighters also have signal whistles, and Clarion Cry.

Oh yeah, I made the Shaman's rod better, sort of. It lowers your attack and defense to 0, but it gives you two turns, and a 100% chance of unleashing watery grave. Yeah, the Great Gabomba's monsters are much stronger now. I also gave several enemies (some inside, some outside) HP and PP recharges during battle (Briggs has an HP recharge of 10, and a PP recharge of 5).

Oh yeah, I also made it so Cloak will make the whole party (almost) invisible. However, it did not work on Felix when I used it.

I like your idea about the inn, restoring PP but not HP. Maybe they should give you a complimentary item, like a nut, or a vial in later towns.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Isn't Watery Grave an Element Physical Attack? Heck, doesn't anything you make as a weapon special turn into an Element Physical Attack? And if your defence is 0, doesn't that mean you automatically get KO'd if you are hit? like, wouldn't it make you take ∞ (infinite) damage?

Surprisingly, no. Also, no matter what armour I equip, Sheba's stats remain 0 (because she is the one with the rod). Before Watery Grave, the rod would unleash Rising Dragon, but that was too powerful. However, she tends to die sooner against bosses, mainly Aqua Hydra. Oh yeah, the ruffains at the beginning are also a tiny bit stronger. However, Jenna should easily be able to kill them. By the way, I also made them adepts... Oh yeah, if it is possible, I am going to slightly alter the storyline, so more people are becoming adepts as the lighthouses are being lit.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

More weapon fix ideas:

The Pirate's Saber's Scorpionfish unleash is just ugly. Please, change it's animation to one of the Sting animations, preferably a red one.

Actually, I'm out of those ideas for now. However, I think that the Magma Ball should be an infinite-use item that unleashes Rolling Flame when used.

Boss fixes: I'm sick of bosses "using" moves. Agatio should not be able to "use" Rolling Flame. It should be a Psynergy. Bosses should be allowed up to two "use" moves: one summon, and one weapon special. Agatio, for example, has Stun Muscle as his Weapon Special, but no summon. Cage should be a Psynergy as well. Poseidon gets to "use" Ocean Fist because it is his Weapon Special, but I do not know if Watery Grave is a summon. If it is not, then it should be a Psynergy. Poseidon also should not get to "use" Counter Rush, it should be a Psynergy as well. I'm sick of Bind being useless against bosses, even when it works.

Perhaps you should add Djinn attacks to Agatio and Karst? There's no way they get those awesome stats and Psys without Djinn. How can they have 3000 HP each anyway, when the max possible at level 99 is 1999 HP? I think human bosses just plain need rebalancing, so that they are more like yourself. No unfair HP values, Attack and Defence and Psys balanced for their level, so that fights against human bosses are short and sweet battles in which one side gets pwnd fast.

Also, would it be possible for characters to have a "super attack" that they can only do with a lot of PP and when their HP is low? I think Mario would look cool using Star Mine.

Summon ideas: Maybe a Landmaster Tank or Arwing from Star Fox would be cool as a summon?

If you were to actually do that, though, you'd have to realize that they don't have any control over their actions.  They can't atm use Cool Aura every turn or swing a Potion because Agatio/Karst is at X HP.  In fact, one of the reasons of Human Bosses having higher HP is that they can't control their actions.

If they could, man, Agatio/Karst, Doom Dragon...those bosses would be quite a bit harder.

Regarding "using" stuff:
The word "use" seems to be automatic for pretty much anything I've put into the enemies' hands so far.

- Mercury Djinni uses Fog!
- Mummy uses Terra Strike!

I think it may be possible to have them "unleash" djinn attacks, just like they "unleash" elemental breath abilities. I'm just sick of human bosses cheating like that. How does Agatio "use" Rolling Flame anyway? It's not a djinn attack, or a weapon special, or an item, or a summon.

Okay, I am back on for a tiny bit... I like your ideas about making all moves require psynergy... I am also planning on making it so there are more items with psynergy effects (more items like bramble seed or oil drop). I thought that the Pirate's Sabre unleashed Dreamtide, but I might change the effect/unleash.

I am planning on giving enemies djinni, but it might be hard to do that unless I give the effects as psynergy, or if I figure out how to give djinni to enemies (have no clue as to how to do that, unless something in the editor is added later on, but it would probably look similar to the item selection menu)...

However, I agree with you about Agatio and Karst... However, they are members of the 'Fire Clan of the North'. I might also make it so characters have higher stat boosts as they level up (as well as much stronger monsters).

I am still trying to figure out how exactly I can give Felix and Sheba unique class groups. I have not practiced very much with the class editor (I have given rising dragon to Justice (I think), but I have not had too much practice. By the way, I changed the class value of a Flame User from (12?) to 18, and they became an NPC (not the first class on the list, or else they would have had good stat bonuses).

However, by tomorrow, I will be back on the editor, and I will be working as well as I can to make some changes. If you have any more ideas, then please tell me (only if you want to).

I have done work on every boss up to Aqua Hydra (and I think both Flame Dragons, but I am not too sure).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

The Pirate's Sword unleashes Dreamtide, the Pirate's Saber unleashes Scorpionfish. I know, they are too similar.

Also, keep in mind that it only makes sense to buff bosses when you have extra party members. Kirby joins for Briggs, and for the Serpent of Gaia Rock. Yoshi joins for the Avimander, as well as Donkey Kong and the King Scorpion. Mario joins for Poseidon, but nobody joins for the Aqua Hydra, so there is no reason to buff it.

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 21, June, 2009, 11:40:00 AMI think it may be possible to have them "unleash" djinn attacks, just like they "unleash" elemental breath abilities. I'm just sick of human bosses cheating like that. How does Agatio "use" Rolling Flame anyway? It's not a djinn attack, or a weapon special, or an item, or a summon.

The word used is "use", regardless of the ability used (exceptions may abound, haven't found out any yet).

It's something along the lines of the old problem Salanewt had.  How it would do something in battle and something else on the field.  The field one had just been coded with a placeholder.

Similar to the abilities, it's attached to commands rather than usage.  So if one of the Djinni unleashes was a Psynergy and in the Psynergy list, the adept would Cast the Djinni instead of unleashing it.  It has nothing to do with what you're thinking.

QuoteThe word used is "use", regardless of the ability used (exceptions may abound, haven't found out any yet).

It's something along the lines of the old problem Salanewt had. How it would do something in battle and something else on the field. The field one had just been coded with a placeholder.

Similar to the abilities, it's attached to commands rather than usage. So if one of the Djinni unleashes was a Psynergy and in the Psynergy list, the adept would Cast the Djinni instead of unleashing it. It has nothing to do with what you're thinking.

The only thing that I can think of for an enemy having more than 8 spells, and djinni and summons would be linked battles (I have never had any, but I have been to that arena many times before). If it were possible to copy the data for the characters that player 2 would use, and then convert them into CPU enemies, then there might be a slight chance of doing this... I am not quite sure how that work, although it would be more likely than copying the useable team (since if you were to copy the team that you control, then you might be able to control them (unless you figure out which part of the coding works for being able to control/not being able to control them)).

Also, I have thought of a good idea... Remember how in GS1 you get Isaac and Garet right away, then Ivan, and a little bit later you get Mia? Well, I am thinking of making it so you control Jenna from the start, then you get Felix near Madra, and then Sheba in either Alhafra or the village of werewolves (forget the name). Perhaps the tidal wave washed Sheba away towards Alhafra, and then she travelled south, and Felix left with Alex... Jenna could wake up, and she could find Kraden either on Idejima or in the first town (I have to play Golden Sun more, since I forget this name too). If this is successful, then it might be possible to add the option to select your gender (Jenna and Felix would switch places).

I guess there could be something called a Whirlwind Amythest (or something along those lines), and Jenna could come with Move learned.

Well, I have typed enough on this matter for now...

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

Oh yeah, I agree with you. In fact, I am planning on having Yoshi stay in Madra for a bit, and then join Jenna for a little while. Also, I was planning on having Jenna start at a slightly higher level, and monsters give slightly more experience.

I think someone else suggested making it so people who are not in your party also gather experience points when they are out of the party, but I forget who...

Anyway, I am also thinking of making the mimic team up with another enemy (not sure which one yet) that will give Jenna better armour.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 23, June, 2009, 01:14:00 AM@TNS: Then how does the game choose when the enemies "unleash" moves like Fire Blessing or Storm Blessing?

I have an inkling it's not actually changeable until we get a lot deeper into the code.  Atrius for sure can tell us.

I am not sure either, but I have a strange feeling that it has something to do with those 4 unknown numbers between useable moves and the rewards for killing the monster. I tried giving Emu Posiedon's numbers, but nothing appeared to change. Emu did not even need the trident to be killed (although I am not sure if I saved after doing this. I also noticed that Karst has the same numbers as Saturos and Menardi, but Agatio has different numbers).

Ooh, maybe I can make an armour that has really good attack stats, but you can not wield a weapon with the armour. Best defensive stats, but no weapon. The only problem with doing this is that another piece of armour would be equippable... Maybe I could also have a piece of armour that raises all of your stats to maximum (or close to it), but you will not be able to get any money, and you will lose what you have (do not know if this is possible). Also, this armour might not be removeable, and it will be cursed. The only problem with this is that it will be permanent (no money for the priest). Unless a new psynergy can be learned that allows you to remove curses and cursed equipment, every curse would be permanent.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

@TNS: Then how does the game choose when the enemies "unleash" moves like Fire Blessing or Storm Blessing?

@Salanewt: Buffing the bosses and shrinking the party seems a bit unreasonable to me. Jenna would have to start at higher level if she were to beat the Chestbeaters on her own. Then again, you could just go and get the Full Metal Vest from Deccan Plateau and then come back and beat them up. Either that, or Yoshi could be in the party at that time (as relating to our previous idea, which seems to have died). Perhaps it would be possible to code it so that Yoshi and the others gain Exp at the same rate as you, even when not in the party?

How come Isaac and co. do not gain any experience since the end of the first game, anyway? After all, they do travel through Madra, and I think Alhafra, and Naribwe, before reaching Contigo.

This is just an idea, but... maybe once the editor is better it would be possible to have the Mithril Bag bestow a class, so that Felix's "base class" is different from Isaac's.

Oh yeah, I like that idea. I wonder if it would be possible to make it nestow a different class, make it so it can not be removed, and also have it so it can become any of the non-equipment only classes (whip, card, book).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Once we figure out how to give Sheba and Ivan different classes, Ivan could be Electric-based, with higher Attack then Sheba, and Sheba could be Wind-based, with higher PP than Ivan. Also, give Ivan Astral Blast/Thunder Mine.

Ivan's Psy series: Bolt, Ray, Plasma, Astral Blast/Thunder Mine, Ward, Impact, Paralyze.

Sheba's Psy series: Slash, Whirlwind, and now we need two more... Maybe a 3-target Wind series, similar to Ray, but wind instead of electric? And a series similar to Plasma, using the glitch Whirlwind animation that Salanewt found. And for status moves: Delude, Sleep, Weaken.

Also, maybe Venus or Mars Adepts should get moves similar to Meld and Mold? Mercury could get Poseidon's Counter Rush.

Now for Felix's Psys: Growth, Thorn, Punji, Helm Splitter/Skull Splitter, Demon Night/Thorny Grave, Curse, Condemn, Annihilation.

I think Piers should be more Guardian/Heavy Knight type guy. You know, a Shield Wall. So, here's my suggested Psys for him:
Ply, Mercury version of Ward, Mercury version of Guard, Frost, Cool, Diamond Dust/Diamond Berg, Counter Rush.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 29 2009, 03:11 PM

I like these ideas. I am thinking of seperating plant from earth, as well as ice from water. I am also planning on a class or two that is purely healing/defensive. With the defensive class(es) can come some offensive classes. For offensive classes, how about (with one of the older ideas) Link, Mario, Garet, Felix, Isaac, and Piers will be able to get purely offensive classes. The rest of the characters will be able to get purely defensive classes. Everyone will be able to get balanced classes.

Also, Drick figured out that by changing an enemy's sprite in the game, you can change the corresponding summon spell (Trainer Whip class set). This also works for the Call psynergies for the Dark Mage series. I managed to have Isaac call a Mercury Djinni when a Zombie was supposed to appear instead. I am thinking that maybe there can be more psynergies that call other monsters. Summoning/calling Djinni should work for defensive actions (including healing) because they looki funny attacking.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

I just said that Piers was the one for the Defensive class!

Djinn look good casting spells however. What about summon Poseidon? He could appear and then use Watery Grave. Maybe you could also have King Scorpion as a Psynergy? You know what? we need a Summoner class. It should be the 4 element class that doesn't need an item. Pretty much, it learns to summon every boss in the game after a while. Every boss except Doom Dragon and Dullahan. that is. Each boss would use their signature move on the target (except for Fusion Dragon, which could possibly use either Dragon Driver or Evil Blessing, but not Outer Space, because that's a different attack type.)

Oops, sorry. I missed that when I read your post. Now that I think about it, I agree with you. He is defensive, and jenna is offensive (or they cac be balanced, depending on their classes).

Oh yeah, I know that this idea is old, but I keep thinking of Southern Tundaria. However, not only am I thinking of that area (which could have some unused enemies (like White Wolf, Fell Raptor, etc.) and a new area which is forest based (could have Estre Wood, Elder Wood, Estre baron, etc.). These are just ideas for alternate areas to go to in the game (as well as alternate enemies and alternate bosses (I was not going to leave these areas boss-less), and an area in which you can use Cloak.

I am also thinking of having a weapon that unleashes Halt (instead of having it useable in battle). Halt will have more uses outside of battle, both in any new areas and in actual areas.

I really like your idea of having a Summoner class. It might work out to be able to use the summon psynergies as well as the call psynergies (Dark Mage). Also, I am thinking of including those unused enemies (the red one, and the crab), so maybe the Summoner can call them as well as normal monsters.

Like these ideas?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

I told you, Summoner doesn't call normal monsters. Summoner calls bosses! Or at least that would be an interesting way of going about it. The fact is though, that if you got to high enough level, you could summon a boss against himself. Though you probably wouldn't want to do that.

Oh yeah, sorry.

Anyway, I have an idea...

Caller (a few rare Monsters, and mostly normal monsters).
Mystic Caller (most rare monsters, few regular monsters, 1 or 2 bosses).
Clarion Master (some bosses, and all rare monsters).
Doom Tamer (all bosses (except for Golden Sun 1 bosses, Dullahan, Doom Dragon), and Djinni).
Summoner (all bosses, including bosses from Golden Sun 1 and Djinni (one of each type).

How do you like this list? The names can go in any order, but this is just an idea. Anyway, this allows your Summoner idea to appear better than other ideas. It would similar to the Trainer's Whip classes, except that the monsters are mostly different, and that the stats are better. Also, by rare monsters, I mean ones that you either do not see in the game, or those that have been added, and are not in the origional version (like in the hack that I am working on). Also, this does not include Boss variants (Chestbeaters, Killer Ape, etc.).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 29 2009, 09:53 PM

Interesting... Sorry if I insisted too much on my idea. But yeah, that works. Only problem is that there's only room for 3 classes. 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3. Also, would it include the Flame Dragons?

Oh yes, that is true about there only being enough room for 3 classes... Unless I change the requirements a bit... Maybe instead of 1 of each Djinni for each class, it could have different totals. I can probably take out Clarion Caller and rename Doom Tamer to be the same as Clarion Caller (but same moveset as the original Doom Tamer).

And that is okay. I was thinking of your summoner idea anyway, so it should include your ideas for it.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

And we'd also need to know what moves the boss/enemy/djinn would use when you summon it. I'm thinking you should use their strongest moves.

Oh, actually, before I continue, happy birthday.

Okay now, the idea with summoning bosses could go like that, yes. However, if summoning Djinni would make them unleash a good Djinni, then that might be used over the Djinni (unless PP requirement is not satisfactory).
Using a Djinni goes on standby (to allow it to be summoned).
Many people who play do not like having their stats lowered when putting Djinni on standby, and might also lose some psynergies, or even have a class change.
It also takes up a turn just to make one Djinni ready (not on standby).

So, I think that it should be changed so up to 2 or 3 Djinni can be taken off of standby (without using a summon) in one turn. Also, with these facts known, I think that Djinni in the summoner class should each have different abilities (maybe one heals, another one raises stats, etc.).

Also, I noticed that there are two different zombies. I am guessing the the weaker zombie is used for the Djinni tutorial in the first Golden Sun... Maybe something like a tutorial can be added in the second one (not a big tutorial, just a description about some of the minor changes, as well as a fight to explain some of them). The two different zombies in the editor also have different numbers (indicators, I think).

Well, have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Thank you very much Sala! And you have some damn good ideas. I only have one good idea a week.

  :MarsSet:  

Thanks, and you are welcome.

I am also thinking now... With the unused space not only in Tundaria, but also near Prox, I could probably put in at least 3 more villages, not to mention new areas with new monsters. I am also thinking of making it possible to return to Crossbone Isle (since it is not in the Karagol Sea). This way, the stones from the first Golden Sun will be useful again (some are, but they are not often used).

Also, any ideas for movesets for new bosses? I am thinking of having the two unused animations as optional bosses that drop rare items, and then one of the villages can use the 'elf' sprites. Also, has anybody zommed out on the world map when they were north of Prox, or even anywhere else near Prox? Notice all of the empty space? You can also see so much empty space in Tundaria, although there are fewer possibilities for that (other than more land that can be explored (probably same monsters as the rest of Tundaria)). How about, when possible, the mountains are moved around, so Tundaria is more like a maze?

Anyway, I hope that you like these ideas, or that these ideas give you ideas of you own.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

If it is not in the Karagol Sea, how come you can get there in golden sun 1 by making the right people row the boat?

I know that it should be in the sea, and that you can get there by boat, but it is not on the world map in either Golden Sun. Maybe the whirlpools from Link to the Past found their way into Weyard, I do not know. I do not think that it is in the sea because it is not on the map, and the sea is so small (the island can probably fit in Karagol Sea and leave nothing but a salty river behind).

Anyway, you know how the Ruffians are all the same at the beginning? Well, I have changed it a bit... Now they are all unique in the group of 3 (to an extent). I will try fighting them now. Also, I am thinking of making it so some weapons in a series can be equipped by characters who can not normally use that series (Axe series, maybe Burning Axe can be used by Jenna).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 30 2009, 10:47 AM

Thank god now someone has a reason to put deadbeard back in. At least you better XD

Thank you for the compliment. I am also thinking of putting the entire world map of Golden Sun 1 into Golden Sun 2, and make it so you can return at any time. This will have to wait for a while, and it will be hard to do successfully.

Anyway, have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

The way it's been talked about having a plant-based venus class and seperating the electric and wind-based jupiter psynergy for 2 different classes as well. It could also be applied to mercury.

Water: The douse and froth sets, along with Cutting edge and plume edge. The animations for Hydra's or Posidon's flooding attacks or from the Pirate Sword's Dreamtide unleash could be used to make more offencive attacks. Possibly even ocean fist's animation. As well as cure poison and restore.

Ice: The Cool, Ice, Frost, and Prism sets. As well as Diamond dust/Diamond berg. As well as break.


Avoid, ply and wish would also be distributed but i dunno which could get which. I think ice could be more offencive while water would have better healing.

That does make sense, yes. I like these ideas. As for separatung ice from water, I can easily do that with Mia and Piers' base classes. I also like the plant Venus class, and separating electricity from wind. The onky problem if Sheba becomes electricity is finding an alternate psynergy for Whirlwind/Gale. She might be able to do this if she switches classes, or if a new psynergy bestowing stone is created (the Gale Amythest, as an idea).

Also, I am thinking about making it so (this will have to wait for the map editor to come out) then the Rocks (Aqua Rock, Magma Rock, etc.) will allow a second person to learn the psynergy if you complete another set of puzzles. This is a problem for Sheba and Ivan though, since Ivan learns Reveal in the first game. Perhaps Air's Rock can grant a different psynergy altogether, and Sheba learns Reveal from the Lash Temple (forget the name), and Lash is gained at Dehkan Plateau (New puzzle). Or perhaps, since I noticed that there is a bit of forest in the middle of the mountains near Dehkan Plateau, maybe the Lash pebble can be found there.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 30 2009, 11:53 AM

Let's NOT screw around with things like that. However, I'd said that Ivan gets electric, and Sheba gets wind. So there aren't really any problems with Psynergy. Also, you really shouldn't get Reveal that early. It screws up the game.

True enough. Oh yeah, I am now working on your Meta Knight as a boss idea. However, I have everything done except for some troubleshooting. I am making it so it will appear in Northern Indra, but here is the problem. It will not use any regular attacks, only defend. By the way, it currently looks like a blue Satrage. I gave it many items (26 Potions, 1 Burning Sword, 1 Stealth Armour, 1 Knight's Greave). I am still not sure why I gave it equipment, but it has a rare chance of fropping a Knight's Greave. Anyway, I am still testing it, but so far, it will only defend. I also replaced one of the dummy enemies that do not appear in the game.

Also, I wonder where this boss would go? Will it decide to travel with Agatio and Karst? If so, then it will not become a Flame Dragon like Agatio and Karst. Maybe it will join up with Doom Dragon.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

Northern Indra is only temporary.

Edit: It does not defend, sorry. It does not even attack, it just stands there.

Edit 2: Okay, I fixed it. I decided to replace the second Amaze with this monster, and I reverted the ? monster back to normal.

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 30 2009, 01:47 PM

This boss would go in his own area. Is it possible to make an area that moves? I was thinking, you can get to his area one of 2 ways:

Find his Airship, the Halberd, on the world map, and follow it until it lands. Then jump out of your boat on the island where it landed and infiltrate the landing area, until you reach the actual ship; or get the Boat Wings, and then find the Halberd on the world map, and use your boat wings to fly up and reach it.

Also, stat ideas: Give him reasonable stats for AN ACTUAL LEVEL 38 PLAYABLE CHARACTER. Why? Because he's going to join you after you beat him, and I don't want any inconsistencies like always happen in Final Fantasy, where a guy who left your party and decides to kill you somehow gains 4000 HP and 5 new special moves.

Moveset: (in order of likelyhood (first = most likely, last = least likely))

Mach Tornado (take a ?? dummy Psynergy, and give it your "Speeding Whirlwind" glitch animation, and make it a single-target Element Physical Attack whose Power is Attack +45. PP cost: 9.
Attack (Potion goes here, if he's out of Potions, he attacks.)
unleash Haze
Tornado
Shine Plasma
Backstab
Blaze Rush (Burning Sword unleash.)
Hyper Mach Tornado (take a ?? dummy Psynergy, and for now give it the Tempest animation (unless you can make a "Speeding Tempest" like your "Speeding Whirlwind"), and make it a five-target Element Physical Attack whose Power is Attack x1.8. PP cost: 27.

Is it possible to add immunities? Or make it so that if try to Condemn or Death Card him, he uses Hyper Mach Tornado automatically?

Edit: So, he works now?

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 30 2009, 02:11 PM

Sort of. I have not yet tried your moveset, but I would like you to see a video that I upload first. After it has been uploaded, and you have watched it, then I will work on another monster with your moveset and compare them.

By the way, I will tell you its defense... 10 (it can not be edited corre4ctly in the editor). Oh yeah, about your stat idea... I am thinking that he joins you afgter you beat him, but not right away. I am also thinking that he says this monster (Wise One) came to him and weakened him severely, but he can still fight.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 30 2009, 02:19 PM

You guy's ideas are pretty cool so far. I like the idea of the halberd and meta knight's moveset.

Anyway i was thinking about the unlabeled values in the enemy editor. You know how bosses are unaffected by instant-death moves, and are hard to get affected by things like sleep and bind? well maybe one of the values has an impact on that.

This post has been edited by Drick9 on Jun 30 2009, 02:44 PM

That's LUCK. Most Bosses have luck around 40 or 50.

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 30, June, 2009, 03:45:00 PMThat's LUCK. Most Bosses have luck around 40 or 50.

Lmao. My mistake ^^;

Also, enemies abourd the halberd would probably be axe, mace, sword and blade knights.

This post has been edited by Drick9 on Jun 30 2009, 02:49 PM

Yeah, about Luck... Meta Knight has 72 luck... Like it? It also has 18 potions, 8 Vials (Which it never uses), 1 Psy Crystal (which is not needed), and 3 Sleep Bombs (which it never uses).

Also, I am not sure what I did, but I managed to make it use Potions less often somehow, and it only seems to use them if it has taken more than 1000 HP worth of damage. When I made the video, I did not make this change.

Have a nice day.

:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 30 2009, 02:52 PM

I was thinking for Meta Knight's stats:

HP: 1056
PP: 176
Attack: 431
Defence: 226
Agility: 325 (that's higher than Dullahan's! I once managed to get Jenna's agility this high though...)
Luck: 26 (Yes, not boss level.)

Items: Burning Sword (until we add in Galaxia, which is the name of Meta Knight's sword, at which point he'll drop that when you beat him, and it will be his best weapon) Knight's Greave, 30 Potions, and 2 Psy Crystals.

Aboard the Halberd, in the Kirby games there are those annoying floaty laser orbs, the annoying floaty mechanical beam guys, Mace Knights, Axe Knights, and Blade Knights.

Yeah, I think that you stats will go for Meta Knight. I think my version is more like Ganondorf than Meta Knight.

Level 99
HP 4600
PP 800
Attack 888
Defense 20 (can not edit yet, and it was an Amaze before (there are two versions of some enemies in editor)
Agility 852
Luck 72
HP Regen 200
PP Regen 10 (hardly uses it)
2, 1 between stats and moveset.
18 potions
8 Vials (Which it never uses)
1 Psy Crystal (which is not needed)
3 Sleep Bombs (which it never uses).
1/1 chance of dropping Knight's Greave
860 coins (he leaves all of his money in the bank like any normal modern person)
3450 experience points (not much for a hard boss)
0, 0, 0, 0 (like Doom Dragon's numbers)
Slice
Helm Splitter
Helm Splitter (checked)
Death plunge
Defend
Hurricane
Fying Attack
Attack


This are all of its details, like them? This might be more suiting for Ganondorf, and some things will change.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Any used enemies that are suckish or useless that you/we don't want? That way, we could choose an enemy with higher Defence. His stats are Ganondorf-ish, as long as you cut back on the speed. His attacks are nothing like Ganondorf's, however. To be Ganondorf, he'd need Earth Force, Evil Blessing, Dire Inferno, and all sorts of other evil attacks (including modding Kirin to be Ganon).

I know. His moveset is based on Meta Knight. Oh yeah, as soon as we can edit graphics, then you can expect to see Goombas walking around with Pikachus. Anyway, this character is due for change, as well as a few other duplicates (there are a few unused duplicates in the game, 2 of which I am now using (not edited though)). Anyway, I am going to start working on these other bosses, but I will not be able to do very much with them until I get back on Sunday. I do not have access to the editor at my relatives' home. Also, I like your ideas with Gandorf's Moveset. I might base him off of Agatio with different moves, and slightly altered stats. His temporary graphics will be an Agatio that is coloured differently.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Isn't it just a teensy bit much for him to recover all of his health after you've almost got him beat

Well, it is supposed to be a hard boss. Besides, if you keep healing and let it run out of potions, then you will only have to worry about a few Vials. Anyway, I have another idea... I would like everyone to please help me with this, and I will do the work. Could everyone please tell me where I can find the necessary programs to do the ELF method for transferring music files? I am planning on having music from many popular games, but I have been having trouble finding all of the programs. I think there is a thread somewhere around here that has the programs required in a post...

The Mid2gba set
Sappy 1.6
A Midi Program (like Anvil Studio)
A Tile Viewer/Hex Editor. Although Tile Viewer is recommended.

I think that these are the programs that I need. Charon should know.

Well, have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 30 2009, 05:41 PM

Quote from: Salanewt on 30, June, 2009, 06:40:00 PMWell, it is supposed to be a hard boss. Besides, if you keep healing and let it run out of potions, then you will only have to worry about a few Vials.

Understandable, but i don't know about 18. But in the video he used 3 in a row so maybe they won't last TOO long XD

By the way, try googling the programs

This post has been edited by Drick9 on Jun 30 2009, 05:44 PM

Music ripping from Kirby Super Star Ultra for the Win! Number 42 is Kirby's Theme (not in battle just his cutscene theme), Number 40 is Kirby Caves theme (Kirby-themed Caves get this music) (by the way, I'm doing this based on the order in the Sound Test), number 48 is Meta Knight's battle theme (when he's in your party, and Felix and Isaac aren't), as well as the Battleship Halberd music. Number 53 is VS. Meta Knight music, as well as boss music for when Meta Knight is in your party, Felix and Isaac aren't and you're fighting a boss.

Why don't the enemies ever fight each other? Why do they gang-beat your party? What happened to the food chain?

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jun 30 2009, 07:15 PM

Well, maybe they do fight each other, but your team is never there to see it. I like the idea with the Kirby music, but I might not use all of them. Also, for the World Map theme, the music might be the Hyrule Field theme from Link to the Past. I am also planning on making the music that plays on the islands near Aqua Rock (in the village) the Title Theme to Yoshi's Island. I might also have the Pokemon surfing theme for when you are on the boat, but I am open to other ideas for that as well. Lemuria might become the Super Mario World underwater theme, but I am also open for other ideas for that. Also, please do not forget that I do want to keep some of the original music in the game.

Anyway...

QuoteBy the way, try googling the programs

#1, I tried this. I only managed to get one or two of them, and I do not know how to use them properly without the others.

#2, I can not, since I am at my nana and papa's home. I do not have the game or the editor installed on their computer, so there would be little point in trying to get them here.

#3, Their computer is too slow to be on the internet, and I am driving my patience that I started to lose when I moved to Toronto (and am regaining, now that I am back) towards being patient for this website.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jun 30 2009, 08:16 PM

Please, NOT THE POK

as far as i know, deadbeard has his own theme I dont recognize this from anywhere else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3BQlVyeSks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3BQlVyeSks)

EDIT: my mistake. it is the same music as the Saturos/menardi battle

This post has been edited by Drick9 on Jul 2 2009, 01:42 PM

Oh, thank you. But, to tell you the truth, it sounds the same as Saturos and Menardi's theme. However, I should put this theme in a fight or two in this game. I think that it is a good battle song for Poseidon.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

If the enemies really do fight each other, than the battles should be more free-for-all, where the enemies randomly attack an ally just because they can. It is unrealistic to find a vermin on the same team as a Wild Wolf, after all.

I know. If it is possible, then I am going to randomize battles a bit more, make it possible so some enemies can attack their allies (not all battles, but just ones that make sense). I think I already found the animation for this.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Also, you wanted to know which Pok

Hm... That is a good idea. I have one question though, where should I put it? How about Hyrule Castle theme (Zelda's Lullaby on loop) as the music for a location?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

I honestly have no idea where it should go. Maybe if you succeed in adding the locations from the first game again, it should go in Lumpa Fortress? Or it should replace one of the various evil themes in the game.

Hm... I agree with you. However, I do not think that Spear Pillar is evil, is it? Think that a good place for it would be Sol Sanctum? By the way, I wonder if I could use the replaced music in the game?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

Oh, I have an idea about making Felix different from Isaac. Make it so Isaac can also equip Staves, but not Axes.

Spear Pillar may not be evil, but at the time when you go there in the story, lots of evil is happening there. And the music sure is evil, isn't it?



Mop-head returns!  

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jul 3 2009, 03:38 PM

That does make sense, yes. Maybe it could replace Agatio and Karst's theme?

Anyway, an idea for a new weapon... Maybe there should be a second trident, but it does not work like the normal Trident. Actually, how about making the trident related to Groudon, then have Kyogre replace Poseidon?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Na, maybe the evil theme other than Saturos and Menardi's theme.

I was thinking it would replace this one (http://www.thejasoneffect.net/music/GoldenSunSoundtrack/36%20Enemy%20Appearance.mp3).

Oh, the Wise One's appearance theme on top of Mars Lighthouse? I think it would be a good idea to replace that one with Spear Pillar. I am also thinking of changing Lemuria's music to be the Super Mario World underwater music.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

That music doesn't only happen when the Wise One appears on Mars Lighthouse. It happens at other times too. Yeah, the Mario underwater theme could be neat.

Another boss idea: Before you get to Meta Knight on the Halberd, you have to go through the Main Cannon. Yes, you have to fight an ion cannon. It can:

A) Blast you with an ion cannon shot for an insane amount of damage. (It can down the Warpstar and Dyna Blade in one hit, after all.) Edit: It should do about 500 to the primary target, and 250 to the secondary targets, and 125 to the last person.

B) It can mortar you with bombs. Quite damaging, but not as lethal as the Ion Cannon.

C) It can basic attack you with it's robotic arm. Not very bad if you ask me.

D) It can do something akin to Death Plunge using it's robotic arm. Pretty much a one-hit KO on a single target.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jul 2 2009, 05:53 PM

Hm... I like these ideas. I have another idea for an enemy... How about a Pokemon trainer, which can have about 800 HP, and its Pokemon has a few thousand? The Pokemon trainer can Revive the Pokemon though, and the Pokemon is... What should it be? How about Mewtwo?

I like you idea about having to fight the cannon. It sounds like it would be a strong boss, but how high would its agility be?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

It's really slow. It is only a cannon after all. You've played Meta Knight's stage in Brawl right? Well, the cannon is featured on that stage. So, you can check it out.

Ideas for stats for the Cannon:

Weaknesses: Earth, Water
Resistance: Wind.

HP: 5120
PP: 0
Attack: 365
Defence: 127
Agility: 53
Luck: 99
Attacks 2 times per turn.
Moveset:
56/256: Attack.
47/256: Bomb Mortar: Power is 150, target all, Fire type.
41/256: Spinning Beat.
35/256: Total Defence.
29/256: Bazooka Blast: Power is 230, single-target, Fire type. Visually, a single bomb is fired straight at the target.
17/256: Death Driver: Visually, the cannon's robotic arm picks up the target, lifts them up high, then smashes them into the ground. This move is a one-hit KO against a single target that automatically has a 100% chance of functioning, Jupiter-type.
11/256: Ion Cannon: Visually, the cannon charges up, fires a huge blue beam straight towards the target. Power is 500, but damage halves from one target level to the next. 5-target, Wind type.

Anyway, about your Pok

Actually, yes, I have played Meta Knight's stage in the past. I think that it looks a bit better than some of the others. Anyway, I like your idea about having the Cannon as a boss. I think that I should start designing the graphics and sprites for these things, so they can be added to the game when the sprite/graphic editor is finished.

I have another idea for a place... How about a new Lighthouse themed area, based on Ganon's Tower? Also, another good area could be Bowser's Castle as well, not to mention your idea about the Halberd. Another idea... How about it is made possible so you can go underwater in some areas of the Eastern and Western Seas?

Anyway, for bosses, we have:
Meta Knight,
Cannon,
Kyogre/Lugia,
Donkey Kong,
Ganon(dorf),
Bowser,
Pokemon Trainer + Mewtwo...

Like these ideas so far?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jul 2 2009, 07:47 PM

You spelled Ganondorf wrong!

And yeah I like the ideas.

Oh wow, I did... Hahahaha! Thanks Jamie, I think it is funny. Anyway, not only did I spell Ganon wrong, but I also added in brackets 'ford'. I guess he looks like a car now, right?

Okay, I will be sure to fix it, but just so people who did not see the incorrect spelling know what I typed, I will type it here.

Gannon(ford).

EDIT: I almost forgot... I am happy that you like the ideas. I am also thinking of changing it so the characters can learn 1 or 2 more pages of psynergy. Also, if I can, then Piers is not going to come with Douse. Instead, I think that it would be a good idea for the Aqua Hydra to drop a Douse Drop.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jul 2 2009, 07:49 PM

Yeah, most of this works for me. Remember that for now we don't want to do anything too extreme. This is basically going to become a Smash Bros. RPG, from what I can tell. Maybe once we can edit the Title Screen it will be called Golden Sun 2: Smash Bros. version? XD

Edit: Fixed a bit of punctuation. Lulz, I'm a grammar nut. XD

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jul 2 2009, 11:10 PM

I figured that people would not like it, which is why I said that I am open for other ideas... By the way, do you have any? I will probably keep it, but just in case. Also, for the desert, how about a Desert theme from a Mario game? I will need you to specify which one though. Oh, what about the theme of the first area of Seattle in Shadow Runner (fun game, you should all try it out)? I am trying to think about where that could go, but I have no ideas.

Meta knight will be a Jupiter adept, do not worry. However, I will have to learn where the coding for the other characters is located, so I can duplicate it and make some changes.

Also, I realized that it might be difficult to add bows into the game (with the animation) unless I just make it so it unleashes an arrow, instead of it being the attack.

Ooh, I have an idea... I noticed that there are, lets see...

Isaac's theme,
Felix' theme,
Jenna's theme,
Boss theme 1,
Boss theme 2 (Briggs, Star Magician, etc.),
Doom Dragon theme,
Karst & Agatio & Fire Dragon theme,
Tolbi theme (when you fight the knights, if you transferred data)...

I can not think of any others...

Does Dullahan have his own theme? What about the Bandits?

Anyway, if I can find the data for these songs and when they are played, then it might be possible to add fighting music for different characters. If I can do this, then I will give Ivan and Mia their own themes (Piers has not been in both games, and Garet is Garet). Sheba could share a theme with Mia (not Ivan, so it makes them less like clones). Also, unless/until more characters are added, then there can be only up to 5 people with unique themes (or else one character will have a theme that is never heard).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

The nice thing about Visual Boy Advance is that I do not think there are the same ROM size limits as there are on a real GBA. So we can add extra characters and Psynergies without too much worry.

Yay for Mario Desert theme! Maybe the Super Mario Bros. 3 Airship theme can be used somewhere as well...

My comment on Meta Knight was because the monster you are currently using as him, or were using as him in the video, was strong against Mercury instead of Jupiter.

Adding bows could be difficult yes, unless you figure out how they did the attacks for Star Magician (since he attacks without moving).

The Bandits use Isaac's theme, and Dullahan uses someone else's theme as well, I think either the Saturos and Menardi battle theme, or the Fusion Dragon battle theme.

Star Magician does not use Boss Theme 2! Briggs and Moapa do. Star Magician uses Saturos' Battle Theme.

There is also the Multiplayer Battle Theme.

Oh yeah... I also noticed that Jupiter Lighthouse does not have its own theme. It shares the music with the Kibombo ceremony theme. So, maybe the Airship theme should go there.

Oh, the monster was? I did not notice that, actually. Oh well, it is something that can be changed. By the way, I replaced an Amaze, so I am not sure if the elemental powers/resistances can be changed very easily yet.

Yeah, that is right. He uses a similar attack to the Froth animation that I found... I tried changing attack to have the same animation, but nothing appeared to change.

Oh, he does? Maybe I should fight the bosses more often. Also, the multiplayer theme... I forgot about that. I also forgot about Saturos & Menardi, and Fusion Dragon themes... What about Deadbeard?

Same as Isaac's theme, cool.

Oh yeah, where should the Super Mario Bros. Theme go? Oh yeah, if I can move Yoshi's Island theme to the Apoji Islands (right name?), then I will try to slowly work on replacing everyone there with Yoshis. I think that the Island is well suited for them. Also, maybe the store there can sell Yoshi related items (not many, but there are Apples).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

I forget what music Deadbeard has. Maybe Yoshi's weapons should not boost his attack, but should instead boost the power of Egg Throw if possible. Maybe just have them boost his Mercury Power?

I ab thinking of something like that. Also, I could not help but notice that in Yoshi's Story (fun game if you are a Yoshi fan), he can breathe underwater forever. This is another reason why he is a Mercury Adept (even though he will turn around underwater if his belly is facing the surface of the water). Also, I like the idea about Yoshi's weapons. Maybe there could be one or two weapons made for him though... They would have to be Eggs though, so the better idea is to have a move that is called Egg Throw (unless he gets some of his game playing tools, like a golf club, or a tennis racket).

About music, I think that there should be at least 1 Pokemon music (for people who want a Pokemon reference), but I have no idea about which one to choose.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

That is not a bad idea. Also, I have an idea. Remember how it is called the Golden Sun? Well, the Triforce is the Golden Power, so what if I switch the two? Besides, the Triforce is a little bit more popular and famous than the Golden Sun (1980's > 2000's).

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Lulz. Yeah, I know that I disagreed with this idea earlier, but considering how Smash Bros.-ish our hack idea is getting, that's a good idea! Also, what if we added Final Smashes in? Or the Dragoon? XD. Final Smashes would just be extremely expensive to use Psynergies that can only be used when the character's health is in the yellow zone (less than one quarter). Maybe the Dragoon would replace the Trident? XD

Oh yeah, that is an awesome idea. Also, I am not sure if I could make it so they are unusable without yellow HP bar (without learning what I can do with ASM hacking), but I am sure that I could make them into summons that cost a lot of PP. Also, I had a feeling that adding the Triforce would be a good idea now (with the Super Smash Bros. ideas seeping into this topic). Also, what if I add some items from other games (or just change them, but make it so it is possible to get more later in the game)). I am sure that the Large Bread could be turned into a watermelon that gives you a Seed-bullet effect (Yoshi's Island), or maybe the Oil Drop can be changed into the Fire/Power Flower (Super Mario World/Bros.), and can use a Fire variation instead of a Flare variation.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jul 4 2009, 05:58 PM

What we need now is the Dragoon from Kirby. And maybe the Home-Run Bat from Smash Bros./Earthbound.

Oh yeah... Earthbound is another game that I want to try out... Too bad that the used game store is now for rent, and is also closed down...

Anyway, I think that a home rune bat would be a good idea for a weapon. Also, can you think of any enemies that should be replaced with enemies from other games? I have some ideas about replacing enemies so I can get Goomba and Tentacool.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Kraken = Tentacruel.

And as for items: Heart Container replaces Potion I guess? Or maybe it replaces Power Bread.

Super Mushroom! Makes the character's sprite go huge, for one thing. And for another, it doubles the character's Attack stat for the battle.

Starman: Set Defence of target to absolute highest possible for set number of turns. Maybe 3?

Star Rod: Increases Wind and Fire Power by 20, and bestows the Psynergy Astral Blast. Attack +168. Unleashes Star Mine.

Class idea!:
Name: -------------> Astral Squire --------------> Cosmo Knight ----------> Celestial Gallant -----------> Star Warrior
Element Lvl reqs: 2 Wind, 2 Fire, 1 Water -> 3 Wind, 3 Fire, 2 Water -> 4 Wind, 4 Fire, 3 Water -> 5 Wind, 5 Fire, 4 Water


------------------------
Lvl|Psynergy...........|
------------------------
..1|Ply................|
..1|Flare****..........|
..3|Guard*.............|
..4|Ray*...............|
..5|Fume***............|
..6|Impact*****........|
..6|Flare Wall****.....|
..8|Plasma****.........|
..9|Wish*..............|
.11|Astral Blast**.....|
.13|Planet Diver*******|
.14|Storm Ray*.........|
.15|Protect*...........|
.16|Ply Well...........|
.17|Serpent Fume***....|
.18|Flare Storm****....|
.21|High Impact*****...|
.22|Wish Well*.........|
.26|Dragon Fume***.....|
.26|Shine Plasma****...|
.34|Pure Ply...........|
.36|Destruct Ray*......|
.42|Pure Wish*.........|
.47|Meteor Blow******..|
.50|Spark Plasma****...|
------------------------

*Class must be higher than Cosmo Knight.
**Changes to Thunder Mine at Celestial Gallant class.
***Changes to Rising Dragon at Star Warrior class.
****Assuming we can have more than 16 Psynergies per class.
*****Class must be higher than Cosmo Knight. Also assumes that we can have more than 16 Psynergies per class.
******Learned at Star Warrior class.
*******Changes to Planetary at Celestial Gallant class.

Stats Bonuses:
Astral Squire:
HP: +20%
PP: +0%
Attack: +20%
Defence: +10%
Agility: +20%
Luck: +10%

Cosmo Knight:
HP: +40%
PP: +20%
Attack: +40%
Defence: +20%
Agility: +30%
Luck: +10%

Celestial Gallant:
HP: +60%
PP: +30%
Attack: +60%
Defence: +30%
Agility: +40%
Luck: +10%

Star Warrior:
HP: +80%
PP: +40%
Attack: +80%
Defence: +40%
Agility: +50%
Luck: +10%

Edit: I noticed that their actually is room for Planet Diver/Planetary, since the class doesn't learn it's last Psynergy until Star Warrior, at which point the entire Fume series is gone, replaced with Rising Dragon, leaving 2 extra slots, but Planetary can take up one of those slots.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jul 5 2009, 03:37 PM

Good idea Jamie. This should probably work for not only the Kirby characters, but possibly either Felix or Isaac as well (not both, so I can work on making them not be clones). However, it will probably be exclusive to the Kirby characters (probably Kirby him/herself (I have heard that he is a she, but I doubt it)).

Also, I have been thinking about replacing the inhabitants of Apoji Islands with Yoshis, and having the Yoshi's Island main theme. It does not sound like it would work, but with the waterfall, it is perfect.

Also, I like your Kraken = Tentecruel idea. However, now that I think of it, do you have any other ideas as to what Kraken should replace? I think that there is something from Shadow Runner, but that is only a giant squid... How about a giant Blooper?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jul 5 2009, 07:03 PM

Were you reading the elemental levels for the class? This class is available only to Jupiter Adepts, Mars Adepts, and to a somewhat limited extent, Mercury Adepts (They can't get to the highest class, Meaning that they cannot learn Rising Dragon or Meteor Blow). Yes, that's right, Yoshi can be a Star Warrior.

Edit: Actually no, Yoshi cannot be a Star Warrior, but he can be a Celestial Gallant.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jul 5 2009, 09:05 PM

Oh, sorry, I did not see the element requirements. However, I like your ideas about the classes. Also, I am thinking of giving Yoshi some psynergies that he will always know (kind of like how Piers always knows Douse, now matter what class he is). I also have another idea... This idea comes from both Yoshi and Chansey, the part kangaroo pokemon... Healing egg psynergies, how about it?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Chansey is not part kangaroo, it doesn't store it's young in the pouch. Kangaskan is part kangaroo, as you can probably tell from it's name, but yeah, healing egg Psynergies work.

Sorry, but I could not think of any other animal with a pouch on its front (mammal). Anyway, I am trying to figure out what its details should be... I already have an idea, it will only reach 1 person (except at the final level, which will reach up to 4 people (everyone who is currently in battle)), and it will heal about as much as Ply (or maybe about 90% of ply). I still do not know which element I should base it on (probably either water or earth (most likely water)).

Also, I know how I can make Egg Throw into two levels, but I have to base it off of Yoshi's Story (if you have played, then you would notice that the White and Black Yoshis have a larger blast when their eggs explode, that would be level 2). Egg Throw could be3 based on Yoshi's Island, with the colour changes and the power increasing, or it could be based on Yoshi's Story, with the blast being more powerful. If Yoshi's Island, then it would be like Spire, if Yoshi's Story, then it would be like Cutting Edge, or Ragnarok. Now that I think of it, I should put them both in. Agree or disagree?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Sure, but 'em both in. Yoshi doesn't have enough Psys anyway... Except that the Ground Pound already takes up his Element Physical Attack spot. Base Classes only get one. :(

Edit: I have nearly 200 posts! Yayz!

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jul 5 2009, 09:23 PM

Ooh, nice. Oh yeah, I forgot about his Ground Pound... Oh well. Maybe I can make an exception... After all, Yoshi can not use any weapons other than his tongue.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Also, he needs to get Egg Barrier. (remember his shield in Smash Bros.?) Maybe his side special move as well. What to call it, though? Egg Roll sounds like the type of Chinese food called an egg roll, so that doesn't really work. Also, the problem with that is that it would also end up being an Physical Psynergy.

True, but that physical psynergy would be able to work on everyone (since it does roll, hit one target, and then goes on to the next), so it might be a regular psynergy. However, it is a physical psynergy, but it can hit more than one target, so...

How about Rolling Egg?

Anyway, have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Then it sounds like Agatio's move Rolling Flame, XD. But yeah, that works. At this point there is only one multi-target Physical Psynergy: Shuriken. I'd like to see more of those personally, so I like your idea.

Thanks, I am glad that you like it. By the way,m just one question before I continue with another idea... Have you voted yet? If you are not sure what the songs are, then you can follow Charley's links to some songs).

Anyway, another idea... How about a special ability for Mario? Maybe something similar to his Fireball ability from the Mario games (similar to Star Magician's attack, but possibly bouncy). Also, how about if a character has boots equipped, but not a weapon, then they jump as their attack?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Like... Everyone? That could be funny. But yeah, it works. It would certainly add some variety to the presently dreary attack animations. And no I have not voted yet. I'm honestly not sure what to pick. I have various ideas for victory music, but none really for Game Over music. And I think that Golden Sun has the best Game Over music around, personally.

P.S. Care to invent names for the classes in a Male version of Flame User class set? I don't think Witch or Hex work very well on a guy, though Flame User, Justice, and Fire Master don't need changing.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Jul 5 2009, 11:06 PM

Witch = Fire Conjurer
Hex = Flame Mage

What if Justice were given to a different class series (and/or element), and the name is replaced with Pyrokineticist? Pyro + kinetic = Pyrokinetic (and then make it so it is a user of pyrokinetic energy, and becomes pyrokineticist). I mean, Justice reminds me of Thor, who is wind/Jupiter. So, do you like the name changes? Also, I am planning on changing more names. "Pyrokineticist" is probably due for change, but this works for now.

Also, Pyrokinetic is similar to Telekinetic, if you think about it.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Jul 5 2009, 11:16 PM

Perhaps, instead of just saying you like my class ideas, you could test them? Keep in mind that my class above learns the Fume series at a very low level. This is because it is based on the original strengths for the Fume series. Also, you should convert it for Flame User as well:

Fume @ lvl 5 as normal.

Serpent Fume @ level 17.

Dragon Fume @ level 26.

I probably will soon. However, I am going to have major changes (or at least several changes, if not major) to the class sets and system on the next version of the hack. I just have to finish up on some things in this one first (I want 1 or 2 songs from other games).

Also, do you (or anyone else) know where the data is for the psynergies that characters can not forget (Piers always knows Douse, Sheba Mind Read, etc.)? I am going to remove Douse from Piers.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  

Wait Whaat???  You posted a hack? Where? :Sweat:

Oh, sorry, I have not posted a version of the hack yet. However, I am going to very soon. I just want to get at least 1 song imprted into Golden Sun. If by tomorrow (at about 3:00-4:00 pm (my time)) I can not get the song to be perfect, then I will add music in the second patch.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  :MercuryDjinni:  

Actually, for the second Water Adept in the hack, not Mudkip or Squirtle. Use Buizel instead cause he's just that much more awesome.

Where is the hack posted at anyways?

Oh, sorry, I have not been working on it lately. I am working on a new project, which has been discussed in Yoshi's Lighthouse (the link is in my signature). However, I suppose I could work on it after the first version of the editor is out.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  :MercuryDjinni:  

An idea for yoshi's weapon:  it has 0 attack power, but has an attack multiplier instead.  Basically, attack and defense stats for it are 0, and it cannot be removed.  But gives a multiplier of like 1.2 or 1.4 or something to attack.  That way, as yoshi levels up, so does his weapon!

Hey, good idea. Maybe it could be a reusable egg or something. Anyway, thank for the idea. I wonder if any of these ideas world work for other games as well... Before I rabble on, which colour should this Yoshi be? I am planning on green, but if he is a Mercury Adept, then it might be better for him to be blue.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  :MercuryDjinni:  

Nice idea Role!

An idea for a Psynergy series that Buizel learns:

Boom (Null): Automatically does 30 damage to target, ignores damage variation and Wall effects. Learned at level 3. Single Target, 6 PP.
SonicBoom (Null): Automatically does 60 damage to target, ignores damage variation and Wall effects. Learned at level 9. Single Target, 12 PP.
Razor Wind (Null): Automatically does 120 damage to target, ignores damage variation and Wall effects. Learned at level 17. Single Target, 20 PP.

Buizel would also learn Cutting Edge/Plume Edge, as well as the Froth series, and the Douse series.

Another Psynergy idea for Buizel:

Water: Attack with a surge of water. Visually: a small burst of water erupts from the ground below the target. Single Target, 40 Power, 6 PP. Learned at level 5.
Waterfall: Attack with a surge of water. Visually: a huge torrent of water erupts from the ground below the target. Three-Target, 100 Power, 14 PP. Learned at level 20.
Cascade: Crush your foe with 'neath a torrent of water. Visually: a huge torrent of water erupts from the ground below the target, then comes crashing back on top of them. Three-Target, 200 Power, 24 PP. Learned at level 48.

Edit: Fixed the Sonicboom series.

Wow, I can barely believe that it has taken me this long to find this topic. Anyway, that seems like a good idea, to have Buizel. I am guessing that he would be a faster person with better attack, right? However, I would guess that he has lower defense on average than, say, Garet.

Anyway, I have a new idea. Is it possible, using ASM/ARM/THUMB to add scripts that can be used almost all the time in battle? My plan is to make Golden Sun's battle system slightly different than it is now. Basically, the ability to add extra defense if "A" is pressed at the right time, so the main target can avoid taking some of the damage (but only the main target, not the others if it is a multi-target attack).

Have a nice day.

Edit: And it would only be a slight reduction, like 10-15%.

I know this would be something that's a bit of a novelty...

...but I think it would be awesome if in Golden Sun, instead of just pushing people, we could pick them up and throw them? Of course, after doing such violent actions we could leave the map and it would reset, but it would be fun.

Also - Using Psynergies besides "Mind Read" on people. Come on! Isn't there a time were you got so sick of Kraden you wanted to cast Plasma on him while he waited for you on the boat? On second thought, such electrical psynergies would make for some pretty interesting field puzzles, based on machinery and generators.

Role was thinking that Bolt would work outside of battle, for things like lightning rods and Whirlwind Stones. And yeah I guess throwing people would be cool.

In my hack, Bolt WILL be usable outside of battle.  It will look like the thunderbolts that struck the lightning rods in the Jupiter Lighthouse, and will be used to trigger many mechanical puzzles (such as the glowing-light-in-the-path puzzles).  There will also eventually be a Diffuse psynergy, which acts to turn OFF things that you can activate with bolt.  Is there a barrier blocking your way?  Look for the active device and diffuse the electrical energy.

I'll basically have 16 standard field psys - 8 are the weakest base element psys, 8 are rock psys (from the elemental rocks).

Quake - Acts as Tremor
Growth - Acts as growth
Sand - Acts as sand
Brush - triggers the floating brush puzzles that Cyclone used to (Cyclone will no longer do this)
Flare - lights a torch (or similar) directly in front of the player.
Blast (Mad Blast) - acts as burst
Blaze - If there's a flame, it'll send the flame forward (just as it does in GS2).  Will often be used in a combo with flare.
Mine - Used on a certain indentation on a wall.  Makes the wall explode, as if you were preforming Blast Mining.  Not used much in story, maybe once or twice, but there's a LOT of opportunities off the beaten path.  Loads of extra areas that need it used.
Whirlwind - Acts as whirlwind
Bolt - described above
Cyclone - Learned instead of reveal for wind adept.  Triggers cyclone's effects, except now just clears brushes instead of making certain ones float.
Diffuse - Learned instead of reveal for lightning adept. described above
Douse - Acts as douse
Frost - Acts as frost
Parch - Acts as parch (may change it, though.  Never liked Parch)
Cryo - Creates a block of ice that can be pushed, moved, carried, and even knocked back until it hits a will with Force.  Used where there's no water to create platforms, but is only the size of a carry rock (half that of an ice pillar).  Floats in water.  Will melt given time, though, so if you don't act quickly enough, it'll melt before you can use it.

For reveal, basically one Wind adept will be able to mind read, the other will be able to use reveal.  I never liked that you got that at Air's rock.  I felt cheated.

Suddenly this game sounds like it has a bit more technology, what with screwing around with (I'm assuming security laser) barriers, and other electronic devices.

I don't see what the difference is between Blast and Mine, though. They both just cause large explosions.

I found that honestly, in GS, puzzles needing Field Psys were too obvious. There should be more creative use involved. For example:

The path is blocked off by several puddles. You need to be able to get by in order to reach a ladder, but in order to cross, you need a Frost pillar. What to do? Drain one of the puddles, then jump over and Frost the other one. Now you have the path you need.

And with Cryo and Diffuse, you can do more creative things, for example:

Say there's a laser barrier in front of you, blocking the path. Looking around, you notice a generator on the other side of a river. What to do? Make a Cryo block, and push it into the river. Then make another Cryo block, and push it over the other one into the river. Repeat until you have a bridge. Then, cross said bridge, which will probably now be starting to melt, and Diffuse the generator, disabling the security barrier. Then, go back across the bridge using more Cryo blocks as necessary, and go through the now-opened path!

I also think some field psys, like Burst (which would be replaced by Blast), should be put to use on more objects. Basically, if you see some random block of trash you want out of the way, just blow it up!

In fact, I think most of your Field Psy ideas would be very good in the community hack, as I agree with almost all of them.

They're both part of the explosive side of Mars.  It's part of the team - the psys they get fit the base of the character.

Ila -> Ground -> Quake and Sand
Sai -> Plant -> Growth and Brush
Aiden -> Flame -> Flare and Blaze
Nina -> Explosive -> Blast and Mine
Kari -> Wind -> Whirlwind and Cyclone
Freya -> Lightning -> Bolt and Diffuse
Eric -> Water -> Douse and Parch(?)
Clyde -> Ice -> Frost and Cryo

Also, "Sounds like it has a bit more technology"?  Umm, no?  Those puzzles ALREADY exist in GS1 and 2.  This is just the new way to trigger them.  They just don't trigger simply by dropping all the blocks in holes.  Remember the Psy that was used to activate the Gombomba Statue?  It's a crude version of that.  You just zap the thing and it starts working.  Diffuse removes the psynergy from the thing, causing it to stop having the effect---

Oh wait... I'm sorry, I was reading your post wrong.  You're NOT arguing against them, it almost looks like you like the ideas...  Actually, there will be puzzles like your Cryo/Diffuse combo.  In fact, I plan on seriously making you think when you go to do some puzzles.  Some will seem simple.  Basically, the idea is to 'train' you on how to use them.  You see a thing of water two blocks across, so you can't jump over there.  But you just learned Cryo, and your way back is blocked by that pesky water you can't get rid of (It's not like you learned Parch!).  So what do you do?  Well, you could cast cryo and push the block over to make a platform to walk on.  Simple.

Then there's more deceptive ones.  You see a carry block.  A.  As in ONE.  And you need two.  So you figure:  Okay, cast cryo, carry the carry block onto it, and jump across.  Except when you land on the carry block, the cryo block under it shatters.  OOPS.  You should have carried the cryo block onto the carry block.  Deceptive... but that's still training level.  Just wait.  I'll make puzzles that require you to pull off a freaking Rube Goldberg Machine to solve it.  Figuring THOSE babies out, and all the setup work you've gotta do?  I'll laugh while you cry.  Trust me.  I will take GREAT pleasure in your torment as you try to get to the next area.

Except Burst/Mine.  Look at it like this, though:

Burst causes a focused explosion of Mars psynergy. It only works on walls if there's a sizable crack in them - basically, enough of a crack that the explosion will cause its collapse.

It will NOT work on sturdy walls.  There are certain glyphs, though, that will basically treat that wall as if it were rigged for Blast Mining (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_blasting) - causes the entire, formerly sturdy wall - to collapse.  Mine acts as the trigger psynergy for these glyphs.  It'll open new areas, and is actually one of the primary psynergies you'll use when searching extra areas for ores and the like.

Also, Blast WILL be used on more things.  If there's a crack in it, you can use it.  You can use it on the Moais in Mars Rock, but you'll get a different effect.  Flare now does what Burst used to do on those.  Instead of a lava platform ride up, now you get shot forward by a wave of explosive psynergy.  Thus, flare is used to climb up to the inside of the rock, while Blast is used to shoot to the top of it, taking a totally different path through it.

It'll be like that for ALL the elemental rocks.  One psynergy will allow you to get inside it, while the other one will allow you to ascend it.  Using Whirlwind on the whirlwind stone will clear away the sand and let you climb the rock.  Using Bolt will cause it to blast a hole into the side (similar to how the hole was blasted onto the top in GS2).  Using Quake on the Idol Statue will allow you access into the Gaia Rock.  Using growth will cause little saplings to pop up.  Using growth on those will allow you to climb the mountain.  Using douse on the Aqua Stone will part the water and allow you inside.  Using Frost will FREEZE the water, and allow you to cross it on foot (and thus climb the mountain).

However, on both paths there will be things you need the other type of that rock's elemental psy to access.  You'll follow the Growth Path, but see something you need to knock down with Quake (which works like tremor).  This leads to extra goodies.  You don't HAVE to get them.  They'd be things like the occasional artifact, potions, psy crystals... you know, like it was in GS1/2 when you backtracked to use your new field psys.  Optional, and your mileage may vary when it comes to whether or not it was worth going out of the way for.

...Oops, went on a tangent.  RIGHT, back to blast. I don't wanna spoil too much, but there WILL be some things that have different effects depending on what psynergy you use on it.  For example, you find a Golden Stone.  You COULD pick it up and forge something with it... or you could hit it with a base psy, which would change it into an ore that produces things preferential to that character.  Using blast on it would produce an ore that you could make some nice Rings, Circlets, Staffs, and Charms out of.  But if you use, say, Whirlwind on it, you instead get something that makes Boots, Helms, Armor, and Long Swords.  Well, at least in my game, depending on the build of your characters, the stuff it makes would differ quite a bit.


So there's plenty of stuff to do. In fact, if y'all think of anything, LET US KNOW!  The more we can do with field psys, the better and more interesting we can make our puzzles!

Not to mention that I WILL be using Salanewt's idea of a Psynergy Shop.  Any Psy-bestowing trinkets you get you can sell, and that's the place that'll sell them.  I will be using this not only in my personal hack, but in the community hack as well.  I mean... you'll NEED it.  We've got 8 base field psys, all of which will have their own low cost Field-only trinket version, the slew of psynergy hand tools, mono-elemental psys like Grind (will be one for the other three as well.  Hover, for example, is going to be Jupiter exclusive).  So yeah, tons of them... and your inventory is only so big.  Hell, it was bad enough in GS2 with all the redundant crap!

So yeah, don't be afraid to come up with stuff, because we WILL allow you to sell these things.  We've just gotta get these things... workable.  Nothing too outrageous, it's gotta make sense.

But the trickiest part is... well, classes.  The way I want the characters set up, both in my hack and in the community hack, is that no matter what combination of djinn you use, one adept can only use one type, while the other adept of that element can only use the other.  Basically, for Kari vs Freya - Kari's jupiter psys are ALL wind based, while Freya's are ALL Lightning based.  No exceptions - If I can pull it off the way I'm thinking of trying it, then it'll have the effect even with Item classes.  Atrius has yet to get back with me on that idea, though... I believe I posted it in the "is this possible" thread a while back.

I think for puzzle inspiration, ToS: DoTNW and the Lego console games are a very good way to go.

I was thinking, instead of having silver objects be blastable like in Lego games, you have cracked objects be blastable, and you have a similar result that is much more creative than Golden Sun's puzzles.

My current question I've been pondering is, what all could you do in-game with a Bolt-powered generator?

It's definitely possible (it's active...sorta).  Plausible's the actual problem.

...That's exactly what golden sun did, though.  If it's cracked, you can blow it up.

In game?  You know the Gombomba statue?  Remember the push-light-path-bock-in-hole puzzles, here after you push the blocks in the holes, the light comes from the goddess statue, and if it reaches the target point, the door unlocks?  You know, the ones found in pretty much EVERY lighthouse?  Remember the spire puzzles in Jupiter Lighthouse?

Well, bolt is for those puzzles.  Now instead of just push-and-go, you go and trigger the puzzle when you're ready.  There's also other things to do with it.  Use it on whirlwind stones.  Small ones will now charge up and blast the crap out of the sand (in ALL FOUR DIRECTIONS) instead of blowing it away.  It'll have limited range, though, so some places you HAVE to use whirlwind from the stone to get it to hit and scatter the sand.  But bolt can be used to hit packets of sand you can't hit with whirlwind.  If there's a patch of sand you can't target from the opposite direction, you can't shoot wind at it.  Shoot lightning instead.  Don't forget that casting Whirlwind on the large stones works to clear away the sand in the path, like in the base of Air's Rock and in Shaman Village.  Casting Bolt, however, triggers an effect like at the top of Air's Rock, where a friggn' hole was blasted into the thing.

Yes, but they didn't make adequate use of it.

I was thinking you could make a sort of magitechnology themed area involving Bolt-powered generators and laser security barriers. And maybe light bulbs and such.

They didn't make much use of it because alchemy, which POWERED THE THINGS, had been sealed away, and the knowledge to make them was forgotten.

My story takes place about a thousand years after the events of GS2.  They have the knowledge, so such devices are common, ESPECIALLY in places strong in Jupiter.  If you were to say, revisit the jupiter lighthouse, you'd find a LOT of puzzles that need Bolt, Diffuse, Whirlwind, and Cyclone, simply because of the strong ties to the Jupiter element.

No, I was saying they didn't make enough use of Burst/Blast. With Blast being so readily available in your hack, the game should train players into just blowing up anything and everything they can.

Although, uh... wouldn't it be kinda strange to need to use bolt to activate stuff in places that are supposed to be populated? Generally, when you need to reactivate something electrical it's due to it having been abandoned...

Of course, considering EVERYONE has some alchemy power, they could just deactivate things when they aren't being used, leaving you to reactivate them.

If there's a gap of a thousand years since Alchemy was unsealed that's plenty of time for the areas to have been populated, built up, and abandoned again.

True enough, atrius.

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 22, December, 2009, 02:28:48 PM
No, I was saying they didn't make enough use of Burst/Blast. With Blast being so readily available in your hack, the game should train players into just blowing up anything and everything they can.

It DOES.  The players have to go find someone to get rid of the blocked entrance to a cave they have to get through.  The nearby village sends Nina to help them.  Then they find out that Nina, whom seemed sweet, is the Blast-happy ubermage, whom forces herself into their party because SHE'S BORED.  And if they disagree?  Did I mention she likes to blow stuff up?  And her ubermage status?  There's also this gem of dialogue I came up with:

Just to set you up:  Freya and Clyde do NOT like each other.  Of course, this leads to many many arguments between Freya and Clyde before Nina shows up.  Possibly in every cutscene.  This scene is the LAST scene that they bicker at each other in.  The actual text I'm unsure of, I'll know when I get there.

<Freya and Clyde bickering>
Nina:  :um:
<Freya and Clyde bickering some more>
Nina:  :um:
<Freya and Clyde bickering some more>
Nina:  :fury: THAT'S IT!  YOU TWO, SHUT UP!
Freya: Eh?
Clyde:  What?
Nina:  YOU!  GET ON THAT SIDE OF THE BOAT AND LOOK OUT THAT WAY!
Freya: Ah...
Nina:  AND YOU!  GET TO THE OTHERSIDE AND DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GLANCING AWAY FROM THE OCEAN!
Clyde:  Now just why shoul---
Nina:  DON'T MAKE ME PULL THIS BOAT OVER, BECAUSE I WILL, AND WHEN I DO, YOU'LL HAVE VERY INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE ON WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE BLOWN UP INTO A MILLION TINY PIECES!
Clyde: Y-yessum!
Sai:  Whoa, Nina... remind me never to get on your bad side...
Nina:  Eh?  What do you mean?
Clyde:  Whoa, calm again, just like that!
Nina:   :irate:
Clyde:  :Sweat: Er... Shutting up...
<end scene>

It's my hack's version of the Pier's age scene.  Only, instead of being zoomed out, you're looking on the ship's deck... I think... again, I'll know when we find out.

QuoteAlthough, uh... wouldn't it be kinda strange to need to use bolt to activate stuff in places that are supposed to be populated? Generally, when you need to reactivate something electrical it's due to it having been abandoned...

Well, Atrius' answer has some merit, but that's not the only thing.  Not everyone's a genius, some people can't understand such puzzles, especially the more complex ones I want to incorporate.  It's far more likely that the set of skills you need in order to get past the puzzle and into the area that you're trying to invade/rob/whatever aren't often seen with each other.  It's the combination that keeps people from entering.  In other words, bolt devices aren't going to be the only pieces of the puzzle.  Just one of many parts to it.  The only time you'll see a simple bolt puzzle (or simple puzzle, PERIOD) is when the field psynergy is undergoing it's 'tutorial' phase.  You know, like how each time you get a new field psynergy, there's something you need it for REALLY soon.  That's the tutorial puzzle.

You will NOT find any tutorial puzzles in major dungeons, except maybe when leaving the rocks.  Most tutorial puzzles happen right after you reach the place, or maybe simply the first time you encounter said puzzle type.  But in the next room, don't expect it to be as easy as the last one.  Now that you know how to use it, it's time to actually THINK.

Not everyone's just going to be leaving their treasure unguarded, either.  Sometimes, get the puzzle wrong, and... well, let's hope you weren't working on an LLG.  Because then you'd be screwed.  I mean... area boss-level strength, but with no item drops (they're guarding the item, after all).  "Treasure Bosses", if you will.  You don't have to fight them if you solve the puzzle properly, but mess up, and they'll be VERY happy to do their job...

So, you could be having a complex Bolt/Diffuse puzzle, where you have to charge certain barriers and diffuse others until you clear the path ahead.  But I can't speak for your safety if you clear the WRONG path.

After all, I can't think of any real reason why the ancient places had puzzles other than for things like this - to keep people who aren't meant to be there out.

Know what would be cool?  If certain EPAs used Agility as their basis.  For example, the skills Rapid Smash and Quick Strike might qualify.  It's just a thought, dunno how well it'd work, though.

In fact, as for blowing everything up, I would even go so far as to hide rare items or money in random bits of cracked rock/other objects that you don't need to blow up.

And why should Clyde shut up when he's not bickering?

XD

Clyde believes women should stay in the kitchen.  Freya believes that they belong on the battlefield.  The two do NOT see eye to eye.  When Nina forces her way into the group, she decides that this bickering between them is getting really old, really fast.  Why should Clyde shut up? Because Nina will BLOW HIM UP if he doesn't! XD

The first thing she does after she forces her way in?  Well, that cave they needed in, thinking it lead to the other side of mountain range, has no exit.  It DOES have a cracked wall.  Nina makes a door.  The wall NO LONGER EXISTS.  To a trigger-happy ubermage, you do NOT argue against them.  It's bad for your health.  The dood may look down upon it, but he's not stupid enough to say something that'll get him killed.

Edit:  I should probably also mention that it's implied that there's quite a bit more rock left, so that digging would be a waste of time.

Also, another difference between Blast and Mine:

Blast - your standard explosion in the style that would make the Mythbusters proud
Mine - a controlled explosion designed specifically for things like excavation.  The glyphs are already set, and the psynergy acts as the blasting cap.  Or detonation cord.  Or something.  I'm sure you get the gist.