Golden Sun Hacking Community

http://www.game-tuts.com/community/f179/sony-just-patented-its-own-downfall-122066/

To summerize it all up, this RFID Chip pretty much locks the game to that particular Playstation 3.  This means: "Your PS3 is broken?, too bad.  You can deal with it, buy another."  So does anyone here have a few hundred dollars to burn if your PS3 goes out?

I think enough people here know about the Incident with the Network being hacked, compromising millions of people's credit card information.  The removal of Linux, Backwards Compatibility for your older PSX & PS2 being tossed away, and any other issues with Sony and their PS3.  This is just their death warrant pretty much.

Share your thoughts?

I don't even own a PS3, but this is something I can't wish on even the most pitiful people.  A multi-billion dollar coporation pulling a move like this on the people who pretty much fund them, their fans and Fanbase.

they were rumoured to do this before the ps3 came out and it never happened...

they patent things all the time. This will never see the light.

Hmmm, if this did happen though, I could see people hacking the chip itself. Haha! Only those few people who know how to reset the chip would still recieve the advantage of selling/buying/trading... me thinks.

I could also imagine the ROMs being uploaded to the internet, and an emulator being developed to bypass the chip for those who are not hacking-worthy.

I guess we all do things with good intentions only to find out they turn out much worse in the end. Makes me think of the government somewhat... Hmm...

Uggh, not this nonsense again.  Hun, they did this with the PS3 too, back before they released it.  Guess what came of it?

Ab-so-lute-ly nothing.  Don't get your panties in a bunch, hun, nothing will come of this, not until most sales are done digitally, and right now I don't even think we've hit the 20% mark.  Also, hate to nitpick, but the PS3 is already out - thus this has nothing to do with the PS3.  This patent is for the PS4, hun - likely to be announced this year.

Considering the history with Sony and their playstation, I wouldn't put this pass them.  With their history, only time will tell if they do something like this with their games at all.  With the way corporations as big as Sony work,  I'd just stick to non-game related equipment from them, like camera's & TV's.  I don't own a PS3, but this move would just Alienate their users, and just cause a massive shift.

Quote from: Teawater on 09, January, 2013, 11:07:59 PM
I guess we all do things with good intentions only to find out they turn out much worse in the end. Makes me think of the government somewhat... Hmm...

Did I miss something?

Personaly doubt that they would implement something like this...

I guess you did? The "good intention" would be to make more money on their games. After all, they don't get anything from people buying used games, do they? (When you look on the surface, but if you look pass the surface, they would actually be counter-productive, had this taken affect. )

1.  PS3 is already out.  They can't do anything to mine unless they physically came here.
2.  This rumor was for the PS4.  Either you misread or the person posting that is an idiot.  I didn't open the link.
3.  If this does happen with PS4, no skin off my back.  I'm slowly swapping over to being a PC gamer.
4.  If I was ever that desperate...jailbreaking.

Quote1.  PS3 is already out.  They can't do anything to mine unless they physically came here.

Ixion did say this: "I don't even own a PS3,", though... which makes me think s/he already knows it is out? Hmm....

Quote2.  This rumor was for the PS4.  Either you misread or the person posting that is an idiot.  I didn't open the link.

I think it may be a typo and Ixion forgot which it was for. (?)

Quote3.  If this does happen with PS4, no skin off my back.  I'm slowly swapping over to being a PC gamer.

PC gaming for the win... Connect your computer to a nice theater system (large screen + surround sound), sit back, and enjoy your fun.

Quote4.  If I was ever that desperate...jailbreaking.

jail-what? *Hands you a free Get Out Of Jail Free card. (From Monopoly.)*

Again, I'd like to point out that this has little to do with vs piracy and more to do with the war on used games... except, shops like gamestop comprise the majority share of sales for software, and rental services like gamefly would be hit by this too... so there's no way in hell that this is gonna get done, simply because those store can simply stop selling their games period.

Until the time comes when the lion's share of games is sold digitially, which isn't coming for at least another generation or two, this is never going to happen.  Story worrying about it.

Indeed, only time will tell.  Just hear me out, with a lot of their decisions being a little bit questionable with how they've treated the PS3 in general, I wouldn't put it past them.  I apologize if this thread didn't have as as much of a big update as anticipated.  This seemed like something to discuss.

The ps4, 720 (hypothetical names) i reckon will be the last generation with actual discs. say 10 years from now the ps5 and 1080 (again hypothetical names) come out. It should all be downloadable at this point thus the problem will sort itself out.

If Sony does it and Microsoft doesn't, they are screwed so perhaps Sony is trying to throw Microsoft a dummy.

PS5 and 1080 will not be 10 years from now.  They'll be 5-6 years from now tops.  Technology advances too quickly for them to last ten years without a new console release.

well what ever happens I won't be happy until I get my 'Nerve gear' gaming console. Sword art online ftw

I follow Zman on that note. Props on the profile pic, wanted to say that but it kept skipping my mind.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/sony-exec-playstation-4-doesnt-block-used-games

See?  Told you.  Blown out of proportion, not an issue at all.

Prepare to have your Jimmies in a rustle today Role, Kain, (Random names being tossed) or anybody who cares about the Xbox.  It was not Sony who shot themselves in the foot this time, it was Microsoft.  With recent developments and the reveal of the Xbox 1 (Confusing titles will equal people buying a original Xbox, trolling attempt perhaps?  *Nudge Nudge*)  No Backwards Compatibility, the DRM Patent I talked about?  Well, Xbox One just crushed the Used Games Market (Hint), The system works strangely, you have to install a game unto the Said system.  If you try to install a used game on it, you get charged a fee.  Xbox Live Fee is going up. (Maybe for the Xbox one only?)   

__

It doesn't surprise me at the Marketing Tactics being implemented, but Apple has done this, what would microsoft hope to achieve?    Especially if people see through to the Mirrors and Smokes.  I don't know how many people predicted the Xbox 1 being a fallout, but it's not a bright future for the Xbox One.  If it pulls through then it appears that gaming has changed and has taken a backseat if they dominate the overall market.

Knew about this months ago.  You also speak as if I support Microsoft in anything.  The reason I had that crappy console to begin with is because I had a crappy computer that couldn't play any decent games.  Now that my computer can handle playing Left 4 Dead (the reason I bought a 360.) without smoking and oozing a black substance, I don't even play my 360 anymore.

The regular Xbox was alright but had crap for games on it and all I used it for was a ninety pound, five hundred inch MP3 player.  The 360 was meh tier, had a confusing layout to use, pay to play online, VERY little memory to work with if you didn't pay out the bum for more memory and the only redeeming quality IMO was the ability to play music or chat with others while in game, something the PS3 didn't have the ability to do.

Even Sony has said at one point what Microsoft is doing is pants on head retarded and they would never do that but I've learned never to take a companies word for anything until the product is out and some poor sap has tested it for me.  Hell, I rarely play my own PS3 these days too because the PC has a lot of games I like on it as well.  Granted there's the RPG or few other games I CAN'T play on my PC but that's why the PS3 is here, and guess what?  I don't have to pay sixty bucks for a years worth of online playing.

WOW I can't believe I just went on a rant like that.  tl;dr This isn't news.  I hate the Xbox.  Microsoft you are fools and Ixion I'm insulted you'd think this would rustle my jimmies.

Yeah, we knew microsoft had DRM months ago.

I have absolutely given up on console gaming. Even if it were not for the entire "Lack of modding" thing that I cannot live without, it is rather obvious that the Xbox One is going to be a flop, similar to the Wii U. The gestures and voice commands will get old after about a minute, and the ridiclous DRM system will drive away anyone that can stand it.

I hope that Sony's PS4 is actually going to be a real gaming console (Not some "Look! It is an all-in-one entertainment center!" nonsense.), and does not posses a system that prevents the use of used games. Because, if it does, I have a feeling that we may be approaching another video game crash.

Quote from: Robert Joe on 25, May, 2013, 01:01:31 PM
the Xbox One is going to be a flop, similar to the Wii U.

Hey now.  The only thing the Wii U is suffering from is a lack of games.  Mario Bros U and Monster Hunter are pretty great games though Zombi U I could have done without.

Also, don't assume that all gamers are like us, and keep up with gaming news.  There's a ton of people out there who don't, who will buy it out of brand loyalty.

The only reason I would even consider kicking in the money for an XBox 360 is so I can play Tales of Vesperia. Other than that, not happening, since I've seen no other decent games in the console.

And the XBox ONE is seriously doing DRM? That's just dumb. Not that I was planning to buy it anyway, since as with all Microsoft products where they try to roll everything into one big application/device, it's going to have a needlessly overcomplicated user interface that will result in large amounts of torn hair, thrown controllers, and flipped tables.

As for the Wii U, I'm actually planning on getting one eventually, if only for SSB4. If we're lucky, we'll get some Tales games on the system as well.

Vesperia and Record of Agarest War are the only games my 360 is still useful for.  RoAW WOULD have been on PS3 had the employee at Gamestop not been a lying jerk and told me it wasn't Xbox exclusive and when I was out on the road with my father (he's a trucker.) I'd often find myself awake while he's sleeping so I figured I'd try out Vesperia and look at that, I enjoyed it...far more than Graces f mind you but I digress.

So my 360 had some life again because I found a game worth playing.  Also agreeing with what Role said.  My cousin Randy is excited for the Xbox One despite its flaws as he's a huge Microsoft fan for w/e reason.  Granted, the only games he'll probably play on it are the Call of Duty series, but that's his prerogative and I've no right to judge because I play them from time to time as well. Just on the superior system that is known as the PS3. Imeanwhat

I have Record of Agarest War on PS3, as well as Agarest Zero. Didn't know Agarest was on 360.

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 26, May, 2013, 01:32:42 AM
The only reason I would even consider kicking in the money for an XBox 360 is so I can play Tales of Vesperia. Other than that, not happening, since I've seen no other decent games in the console.

And the XBox ONE is seriously doing DRM? That's just dumb. Not that I was planning to buy it anyway, since as with all Microsoft products where they try to roll everything into one big application/device, it's going to have a needlessly overcomplicated user interface that will result in large amounts of torn hair, thrown controllers, and flipped tables.

As for the Wii U, I'm actually planning on getting one eventually, if only for SSB4. If we're lucky, we'll get some Tales games on the system as well.

It requires you to connect to the internet at least once a day in order to validate everything.  So... yeah.  If you have no internet, you're boned.  It's not quite always-on, but it's functionally similar enough that it serves as mandatory DRM.  Oh, and you have to pay a fee to play a game used.  There's that too.

Quote from: Rolina on 27, May, 2013, 12:35:07 PM

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 26, May, 2013, 01:32:42 AM
The only reason I would even consider kicking in the money for an XBox 360 is so I can play Tales of Vesperia. Other than that, not happening, since I've seen no other decent games in the console.

And the XBox ONE is seriously doing DRM? That's just dumb. Not that I was planning to buy it anyway, since as with all Microsoft products where they try to roll everything into one big application/device, it's going to have a needlessly overcomplicated user interface that will result in large amounts of torn hair, thrown controllers, and flipped tables.

As for the Wii U, I'm actually planning on getting one eventually, if only for SSB4. If we're lucky, we'll get some Tales games on the system as well.

It requires you to connect to the internet at least once a day in order to validate everything.  So... yeah.  If you have no internet, you're boned.  It's not quite always-on, but it's functionally similar enough that it serves as mandatory DRM.  Oh, and you have to pay a fee to play a game used.  There's that too.

What. A. Load. Of. Horse. @#$%.

Well, it wasn't like I wanted to get an Xbox One anyway.

Ouch. I know right? I've never ever owned an XBOX before, so anyway, I guess this doesn't really affect me...

I don't know much about the XBOX ONE system... in fact, this topic is probably the first time I think I've read of it? (Derp. ; If I've heard of it earlier, I don't remember that clearly. ) But it may leave a lot of questions about... Like... will this encourage or discourage other companies from doing this?

And many other questions that may be interesting to know, but yet, holds no importance... Thus, mostly all of them are trivial questions, unless one gets involved with the stuff, I guess:

Once a day? So, would it be a separate timer? Or is it dependent on the clock? Can you even set the clock? Or does it auto-sync to the internet? Are there any anti-hacking features that might make it even harder to disable? How much do you think it might cost to get the system decapped enough to remove such a feature? And what other questions I could possibly come up with. I might be better off looking it up, though. Not that it is interesting enough to be necessary... but maybe just for fun.


Ofcourse, if a hacker was to remove such a feature and everybody else found out how... then that might get everyone buying their systems... which could only encourage the companies to keep the feature. So... Yeah, either way, you are better off avoiding the console, I guess?

Xbox One is a piece of crap.  You know what my 360 is used for, more than anything?  A DVD player.  I mean, we have a few games for it...  But I'm not gonna buy the One or the PS4...  Neither of them piques my interest.  I think I'm more interested in the 3DS and my Vita than any of the new consoles.  Which is sad, cause I usually prefer consoles.

I use my Xbox quite a lot every day actually, an I love my  little xbox I even buy her things such as paddle skins console skins. An I welcome the xbox one an the ps4.....hell I got money coming out my butt nowadays with nothing to spend it on. So I look forward to it. But to each there own I guess. Oooh an I hope I don't get in trouble for showing up out of the blue an posting.

Also keep in mind that they have expressed that there is no desire to allow the XBO to play XBX or 360 games.  While PS4 will have gaikai so as to stream older games (thus getting around the hardware limitations), if you want an XBO you're also gonna wanna keep your 360.

You know I probably will keep it. Mostly the used game thing or the reverse compatabilty doesn't bother earlier consoles didn't have it so it wont bother me much. Just the thrill of the new games will keep me going....Our generation got spoiled by the ps2 an ps3 now everything has to be reverse compatibility. Well not for me. As for the used game things...I don't buy them nor do I return games even if they suck. Once I make a buy I got too much pride to admit I got a crappy game to ever get rid of it. Also I bought two ps3s before I sold out an went to Microsoft. But I do miss my ps3 both of them but my 360 is filling the void an I expect the XBO to do the same. People gotta realize that not everything is gonna be perfect. But just advancing the tech is enough for me.

And the fun continues!
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/28/xbox-one-to-be-region-locked

I really don't know why they're going this way with the XBO, since it's literally the exact opposite of what gamers have been asking for, but... whatever, I suppose.  PS4 is gonna be the console for me, this year.  Might get the WiiU if they'd bother to make some games for it, but...

AND it's region locked?  Yeah.  Sticking to handhelds until Sony and Microsoft get their heads out of their asses.  Wii U bothers me, so I'm not gonna get one of those, either.

Yeah, I'm sticking to handhelds and older consoles till they get their @#$% together. I've always been meaning to get another Sega Mega Drive. Damn that thing had some pretty awesome games.

Seriously, what would it take for them to pull their arses out of their heads........ Oh @#$%, I mean "pull their heads out of their arses"

Either way, they're still full of shite.

@Regoin-locking? - If you are able to copy the game to your computer somehow, Couldn't you just modify the game's region value to match ones in your own region?  I'm not sure what all region-locking checks with region-locking consoles... But I do know in GBA and DS games, there is a character that tells you which region the game is in.

E = North America
P = European
J = Japanese
K = Korean
...and there may be others.

By the way... quick question about the used games fee. So if you had two of the same games for XBO, does it register for the game's title, so all game's with the same title work, or only just the one you put in? I'm curious to wonder if you could change the game's title value to match one that is already registered so you could bypass the fee...

Ofcourse, you could also try to find out how games are detected as used, and delete those values?

---
Ofcourse, all of that would only work if you can get your hands on the ROM data of the games.

Not sure.  We know there is going to be a small fee, but we don't know how much or what the specifics are yet.  Just stalk IGN until they find out, I suppose.

@Kioll:  Why the Sony hate?  They seem to be doing the exact opposite - easy to develop for, better specs, used games OK with no fee, no internet connection needed... Dunno about region locking, but odds are it's just like the PS3 in that it's not the hardware that's locked, it's the account (you can have a US and JP account onthe same machine).

Quote from: Rolina on 28, May, 2013, 10:29:27 AM
I really don't know why they're going this way with the XBO, since it's literally the exact opposite of what gamers have been asking for, but... whatever, I suppose.  PS4 is gonna be the console for me, this year.  Might get the WiiU if they'd bother to make some games for it, but...

The only reasons I can think of are...

1: They think that customers being unable to buy games from any region will somehow make up for fewer people buying the console.
2: They want to decrease demand for their console.
3: The XBO is a test subject and they're trying to find out how much DRM they can get away with.

...and the same can be said about the whole business about taking a fee for used games (at least they're not making them completely unplayable). I'm honestly not sure why they're doing this either, I get the feeling that the people making these decisions are stuck in their own little world. Not that this affects me anyway... I think.

Doesn't change the fact that the console's success is going to depend on the games. Speaking of which... is there any reason to get a PS4?

Quote from: Teawater on 28, May, 2013, 07:17:22 PM
@Regoin-locking? - If you are able to copy the game to your computer somehow, Couldn't you just modify the game's region value to match ones in your own region? 

If amateur hackers can break the protection, it won't be long before there's a "fix" available for everyone else who doesn't know how to do it. Microsoft are most likely aware of this, so I expect they would be pretty serious about the security. But then again, maybe not.

If it proves a big enough problem for them, they may just do away with it, but they'd have to take one hell of a financial hit for that to happen.

Also, did I mention the Kinect is always on, and that the console won't function if you unplug it?  I dunno about you, but I happen to like gaming in my underwear.  I don't want any surprise skype calls or some other stupid crazy thing coming up and having someone seeing me in my skivvies.

...oh my. Now that you mention it, I do seem to remember hearing/reading that somewhere. But, err... geez, that's just plain stupid.

I know right?  Watch your electric bill very closely! (Though, I doubt that there would be much difference for it to be much noticeable, but I do know that if you have anything plugged in a socket, even when whatever it is is turned off... it is still using up atleast a very tiny amount of electricity...)  So? Is that all for the strange unnecessary XBO limits?

That I know of.  I may have missed something.  I've been keeping track of the new gen on IGN, and I'm just repeating stuff I read there really.  We'll find out more at E3 in two weeks, but until then first impressions are all we've got...

And I've gotta say, while PS4 impressed me, XBO fell flat.  Right now, I'd get a WiiU over the XBO due to my concerns with the system.

Quote from: Rolina on 29, May, 2013, 10:25:56 AM
I happen to like gaming in my underwear.

You do, do you~? Hehehe, nice. Very nice, indeed~

QuoteAlso, did I mention the Kinect is always on, and that the console won't function if you unplug it?

*facepalm* Do they really need to do that kind of crap?

I don't hate Sony.  If I did, I wouldn't have a Vita.  However, the PS4 doesn't strike me as "new".  Okay, there's a SLIGHTLY new controller.  Big ****ing deal.  It's just another ploy for more money, that's really all.  Higher levels of graphics and processing power.  Great.  It plays bigger games.  They've killed backwards compatibility, meaning none of the PS3 games will work on PS4.  We'll probably be able to download PSOne and PS2 classics, but Sony's been kinda bad at getting @#$% on the market to be downloaded.  Trust me, I've been waiting for 3 months for them to toss something they SAY is playable on the Vita up to be downloaded onto the Vita.

I'll probably get a Wii U once I have money again. Just so I can get SSB4 later. Only thing is, I'm basically out of cash right now because I just pre-ordered Pokemon Y and bought a copy of Kid Icarus: Uprising.

As for the PS4, who knows? If they release a few awesome games for it (Ratchet & Clank, something from the Tales series), I may get one. But so far, I've been mostly forced to stick to one home console per generation due to lack of cash, and up 'til now they've always been Nintendo.

The Playstation 4 places a heavy emphasis on the social aspects of gaming.  The most notable effort in this area is the controller's "Share" button, which allows you to instantly upload screenshots or gameplay footage to Facebook.  Sony has also partnered with third party streaming services like Ustream to integrate spectating.  Even more impressive is the planned ability to allow your friend to take control of your game remotely to get past a particularly difficult sequence.

The video game business has changed a lot, and Sony says the PS4 is much more open to emerging business models.  Sony says free to play games will be a big part of the PS4 lineup.  Sony is also offering independant developers the option to self publish games on the PS4, including Braid creator Jonathan Blow, who's bringing his new game The Witness to PS4 as a self published game.

Sony bought the cloud based streaming gaming service Gaikai for $380 million in 2012, an investment driven by its PS4 plans.  Gaikai founder Dave Perry got a lot of stage time at the PS4 announcement, and said that instant cloud gaming is a major focus for the company.  The new hardware makes the backward compatibility incredibly difficult, so Sony plans to make the extensive Playstation back catalog available via cloud based streaming.  Perry didn't mention whether or not new releases would be available on the cloud as well.

The streaming technology is also used in the PSN store.  Instead of having to download a game demo, you can test a streaming version of the game for a period of time before making your purchasing decision.

Sony is making your PS4 experience centered on your gaming and entertainment interests.  You can quickly browse games and information being played by friends, and prediction technology allows the system to suggest content, both entertainment and games, based on your playing and purchasing habits.  The system can even predict your next purchase and have the game loaded and ready to go before you buy it.  The user interface is customizable and as expected, is open to a large number of outside entertainment services for streaming and on demand media such as Netflix.

Thanks for an informative post Kain, I was wondering what's new with the PS4. But well... you kind of sound like a commercial.

I think the biggest expectations from gamers are on what games will be made possible with this new technology. Which will probably lead to a good deal of disappointment, since not much seems to be happening in that department. It's already possible to make some pretty incredible games on PS3.

Thank you, Misery, you summed up my feelings on the PS4 succinctly.  As for what Kain mentioned...  I'd like to point out that I am not really a very social person.  The most social I get is roleplaying and MMO's.  So social gaming isn't really a draw for me.  I'd rather see hardcore upgrades to gameplay and bring out new ways to game than see yet another otherwise excellent form of entertainment fall before the dark shadow of Facebook...

Hmm.... I read somewhere that developers can disable the Share button at anytime in their games... as to help with not spoiling it for everyone else who might play. (Ofcourse, this doesn't actually keep people from sharing something they really want to share... since you could simply take a digital camera and take a picture of the screen almost just as easily... maybe taking another half a minute.)

Speaking of Share buttons, I think we'd be better off having a few User-Defined buttons.... Basically allowing you to make them be anything you want. From sharing on the internet, to checking the date/time/etc. ... Setting display and sound settings...  Fast-forward/Turbo button... Or maybe even use them as a way to Save and Load savestates...

Ex:
User-Defined 1 + A button could be Savestate
User-Defined 1 + B button could be Loadstate...

And whatever else you'd want...

Misery:  Info ripped from a magazine so yeah, it should sound like that.

Kioll:  I only really care for the streaming aspect.  Indie developers is just icing really and I downright hate anything involving Facebook by default so I won't be using that feature ever.  As for social stuff...in MMO's I'm mainly solo so not like it makes too much difference there.  Unless I absolutely need the help, I avoid people since in most cases of MMO's, the people playing are jerks who think they're the best thing ever or idiots who often die or get you killed.

Quote from: Overlord Kain on 02, June, 2013, 01:27:04 AM
and I downright hate anything involving Facebook by default

Music to my ears...

@Kain and Kioll: Is that just for Facebook alone? Or for the Social concept alone? (Which is more likely.) Otherwise, you could be using Bebo, Myspace, Nextdoor, Meetme, and other networks.

Quotesince in most cases of MMO's, the people playing are jerks who think they're the best thing ever or idiots who often die or get you killed.

I can understand that. By the way, when I read that... I was thinking about Alex in Golden Sun. Not that that's why Alex works alone...?

It's kind of hard to know just where you should draw the line... because what about those one or two that don't fall in that category, and yet... you can't really tell in the beginning? ; Or how about in real life? ; What if you just stayed away from absolutely everyone? Soon enough, you'll probably find yourself accidentally breaking your own rules. (If you saw the stuff you did 10 years ago, would you be "embarrassed" about it today? ; Or maybe... 10 years down the road, do you think you'd be "embarrassed" about what you're doing today? Or it could probably work the other way around too. Does our level of wisdom ever stay the same? Etc!) Basically, if you could clone yourself, chances are, you might not spend much time with your clone, but this is only in theory. For example, imagine knowing yourself as having Alzheimer, a mental disorder, or something else... Hmm.. ; So given all the strange factors (Including what you can make a habit of doing, and moments of realization, etc.), I can conclude that it's probably best to learn to not judge people (which can be difficult), and learn to help even those who seem too foolish enough to deserve it... Basically, anything that will be a set-up for getting them to apologize instead of yourself in the event where the unknown happens. Almost wanting to make time to study a bit of psychology when I feel like it... but anyway.  All and all, it's a lot better that they be acting like dumb "noobs" like that than to have them go out, literally threaten people, and do things that might land them in jail, don't you agree?

Anyway, long trivial paragraph above... so... sorry... if anyone thinks I'm lecturing. :O :Kraden: If only I had the patience to rewrite it in a commercial-like tone.

PS = And speaking of apologies... I could go on a whole 'nother topic on that... about assuming whenever there's a problem with something. (EX: an app for example) to assume it was your fault even if it wasn't... Etc. Because then the programmer would be the one apologizing that a feature doesn't work or something... instead of yourself had it been your fault and you were accusing the programmer of something...

---

And... I feel like I'm going waayyy off-topic. So it looks like Playstation 1 was around 1994-ish? 20 years, and 4 consoles? (Not including the other stuff that is PSP and the like.)

PS1 = 1995 (1994 in Japan)
PS2 = 2000
PS3 = 2006
PS4 = 2013

Seeing this pattern, I expect PS5 will be around 2018-2021? Unless other systems are worked on in its place.

And how much will the PS4 affect PS3's price? If at all? Hmm.... (Think about supply and demand... however, since the PS4 isn't backwards compatible to PS3, probably not by much, but it is also my guess that this will cause fewer new games to be made on the PS3, so...)

Social Networking as a whole.

Figured so. (I guess there are only a few exceptions you people take? And they probably all involve gaming...)

-I could say that this forum is partly a social network... but the Editor wouldn't have much use without an audience... just like millions of other things.
-I could say that email is like a private networking atmosphere in some ways.
-Same with Instant Messenging...
-Blogging (sort of)
-Chat rooms.

So with that list... my general opinion says that social networking is sort of good for grabbing the opinions of a wide audience. (Good marketing technique if you know what you're doing...), but for those that are trying to hide their identity... I could first recommend never uploading a single picture of yourself... (Might be even more identical than if you had used your real name.) That is all the police would need to track you down, anyway. (Assuming people would call in saying who you are if you appeared on the news.)

Quote from: Kioll on 30, May, 2013, 06:01:20 PM
I don't hate Sony.  If I did, I wouldn't have a Vita.  However, the PS4 doesn't strike me as "new".  Okay, there's a SLIGHTLY new controller.  Big ****ing deal.  It's just another ploy for more money, that's really all.  Higher levels of graphics and processing power.  Great.  It plays bigger games.  They've killed backwards compatibility, meaning none of the PS3 games will work on PS4.  We'll probably be able to download PSOne and PS2 classics, but Sony's been kinda bad at getting @#$% on the market to be downloaded.  Trust me, I've been waiting for 3 months for them to toss something they SAY is playable on the Vita up to be downloaded onto the Vita.

...I don't even know how to begin on this one.  I guess I'll start with the backwards campatability statement... PS1 → PS2 and GBC → GBA is the only system transition in the history of gaming to have full backwards compatability.  Why doesn't others?  Because the hardware simply uses a different architecture.  Sony said that's not good enough.  They WANT people to play older games.  So they bought GaiKai so that you could play older games on the PS4 by literally getting around the hardware limitations in a cheap and affordable way for everyone involved.  I fail to see what your problem is there.  As for the classics being released, you do know all the legal bullshit they have to jump through in order to do that, right?  That's the reason we won't be getting Megaman Legends as a classic here in the states - bad contracts were made and now it's legally impossible to get this to work as a PS1 Classic (they'd have to completely remake it with different voice actors, since the VA's are the problem in this particular case).  Something similar happened with Suikoden 2, iirc, so the only legal way to play it in the US is still to pay ~250 bucks for a used copy.

And as for your first statement... I don't think you really understand the hardware issues going on.  PS3 used a proprietary archetecture that made it difficult to develop on.  This lowered the quality of PS3 games as a result.  However, they've gone out of their way to not only make it Dev Friendly, but to have some pretty nice specs - better than the XBO's.  This means that not only is the PS4 going to be much more powerful than any other console save custom built PCs, it's going to be super easy to develop for in comparison to the PS3.  We're talking a substantial increase in quality for games.  Remember all the bugs and stuff in Fallout and Skyrim?  Won't be nearly as big of an issue now that it's easier for developers to make games on it.  Games will run smoother, with fewer bugs, and here's the best part:  It's very likely that the current trend of multiplat games being developed for 360 and ported to PS3 is going to be reversed for the PS4 and XBO.

You want a reason to be excited for the PS4?  Overall increase in quality games, full hardware bypass to allow playing old games on the new machine (Indirect Backwards Compatibility!), and at a much more affordable price point compared to last gen.  Will there be the HUGE increase in graphics that previous gens had?  No.  Not even close.  That's how much we've improved on games.  But will the games be able to do more, have more content in them, and all and all be able to be presented far better than in current gen?  Yes.  Even XBO can claim that.

I think you're looking for that huge WOW we got in PS1 → PS2 and PS2 → PS3.  It's not gonna be that huge this transition - it'll be much more subtle.  Less exterior sexy and more under-the-hood sexy.

First off, the original DS had full backwards compatibility with the GBA, so you've missed something there.  Also, there was a version of the PS3 with backwards compatibility, as well as the 360 having backwards compatibility as long as you have the hard drive for it (I don't).  As for the things I've been waiting to be made available...  The PSN website SAYS they're available for Vita.  Legend of Dragoon being available on PSP and PS3, but not able to be downloaded to PS Vita directly (you can get around this with a PS3.  Sounds gre- Oh, right, I DON'T HAVE ONE!  -.-)  And DBZ Shin Budokai 2 is supposed to be Vita compatible.  But unavailable for download.  So yeah.
Okay, so it's easier to develop for.  Wonderful.  More money.  I'm sorry, Role, nothing you've said has impressed me.  I'm not looking for "sexy" in a console.  (Mmm, baby, you soooo fiiiiiiiine.)  Also, didn't play Skyrim.  Not a huge fan of Bethesda games.  They don't really fit my playstyle.  I'm much more into puzzles and things which guide you forward (too much guiding is bad, though), because frankly, I'm a bit of a completionist.  I prefer to have a concrete "next place to go" than "go where ever you wish, sir".
Great.  Better quality games.  Whoopdeedoo.  That's every new console ever made.  This one just doesn't impress me.  And I'm definitely not getting the new Xbox.  And quite frankly, even the Wii U fails to impress.  The new console generation just doesn't impress me as a whole.  I think I'll wait for Microsoft to give up and Nintendo and Sony to combine forces before I step into a new console.

Microsoft isn't going down. An if it is, then sony an Nintendo will follow suit. An on that day people will realize that if you want the greatest experience in gaming you need but go outside an start on the game called life. An I still don't see the problem with needing backwards compatibility. I never needed it, sure it was nice. But why even make a new console? Why ever make anything new ever? Making stuff an buying stuff drive the economy. An just because they can doesn't mean they should. Imagine making things backwards compatible, decrease on sales because "hey you already got games that work for it." Doesn't mean you have to throw away your old console. But certainly you all can understand people need to make money, money to pay employees, money for advertising, money for rights to exclusive in game contents an a whole lot of others things I cant even fathom. I don't want a perfect gaming system. I just want a slightly better one with one or two more features, to brag to my friends an co-workers. If its perfect.....then theres no reason to go up anymore. No reason to buy anything from anyone. You already have the perfect machine....so then want happens people loose jobs because they already created the perfect machine. For me...perfection is death....because if you cant improve then why keep on living. I for one think the gaming industry has a handle on the whole situation. An people that nit pick an the smallest detail are the people who are never happing with anything. Well I for one am just happy to be part of the experience. An you will see me buying any one of the next consoles. Cash in hand an happy as a clown. Good day.

Quote from: Kioll on 04, June, 2013, 10:45:45 PM
First off, the original DS had full backwards compatibility with the GBA, so you've missed something there.  Also, there was a version of the PS3 with backwards compatibility, as well as the 360 having backwards compatibility as long as you have the hard drive for it (I don't).  As for the things I've been waiting to be made available...  The PSN website SAYS they're available for Vita.  Legend of Dragoon being available on PSP and PS3, but not able to be downloaded to PS Vita directly (you can get around this with a PS3.  Sounds gre- Oh, right, I DON'T HAVE ONE!  -.-)  And DBZ Shin Budokai 2 is supposed to be Vita compatible.  But unavailable for download.  So yeah.

PS3's backwards compatibility is exactly why it cost 600 bucks at launch.  It's why it was dropped very quickly - to allow the cost to come down.  Also, I specifically stated FULL backwards compatibility - the examples you gave were wrong in that regard: as the Gameboy's architecture has evolved, it's stopped being backwards compatible to an extent.  Where's the GB playability on the DS?  The GBA on DSi?  Come the next hardware, don't be surprised if DS is out too.  This is why Virtual Console is becoming so popular - the new stuff can't play the old stuff without emulation, and these things have to literally be translated.  And this is hardly new - if that's your biggest complaint, you're not only being spoiled, you're blatantly ignoring how I mentioned that the GaiKai service is specifically being used to get around that.

QuoteOkay, so it's easier to develop for.  Wonderful.  More money.  I'm sorry, Role, nothing you've said has impressed me.  I'm not looking for "sexy" in a console.  (Mmm, baby, you soooo fiiiiiiiine.)  Also, didn't play Skyrim.  Not a huge fan of Bethesda games.  They don't really fit my playstyle.  I'm much more into puzzles and things which guide you forward (too much guiding is bad, though), because frankly, I'm a bit of a completionist.  I prefer to have a concrete "next place to go" than "go where ever you wish, sir".
Great.  Better quality games.  Whoopdeedoo.  That's every new console ever made.  This one just doesn't impress me.  And I'm definitely not getting the new Xbox.  And quite frankly, even the Wii U fails to impress.  The new console generation just doesn't impress me as a whole.  I think I'll wait for Microsoft to give up and Nintendo and Sony to combine forces before I step into a new console.

Um, I think you missed my point.  I gave examples of buggy games, not games you'll love.  Also, how the hell does "easier to develop for" mean more money?  It's higher quality, not more money.  And again, less bugs.  What, might I ask, are you looking for in a new console?  Specifically, that is?

Quote from: Rolina on 03, June, 2013, 02:13:26 PM
You want a reason to be excited for the PS4?  Overall increase in quality games, full hardware bypass to allow playing old games on the new machine (Indirect Backwards Compatibility!), and at a much more affordable price point compared to last gen.  Will there be the HUGE increase in graphics that previous gens had?  No.  Not even close.  That's how much we've improved on games.  But will the games be able to do more, have more content in them, and all and all be able to be presented far better than in current gen?  Yes.  Even XBO can claim that.

If this is true, then it definitely sounds like a step in the right direction. You might even make me a little excited for the PS4, and I can't get it regardless. I still have my doubts though.

Quote from: Rolina on 05, June, 2013, 10:20:17 PMPS3's backwards compatibility is exactly why it cost 600 bucks at launch.  It's why it was dropped very quickly - to allow the cost to come down.  Also, I specifically stated FULL backwards compatibility - the examples you gave were wrong in that regard: as the Gameboy's architecture has evolved, it's stopped being backwards compatible to an extent.  Where's the GB playability on the DS?  The GBA on DSi?  Come the next hardware, don't be surprised if DS is out too.  This is why Virtual Console is becoming so popular - the new stuff can't play the old stuff without emulation, and these things have to literally be translated.  And this is hardly new - if that's your biggest complaint, you're not only being spoiled, you're blatantly ignoring how I mentioned that the GaiKai service is specifically being used to get around that.

My response in that regard was simply that: a response.  The backwards compatibility isn't my biggest complaint, or even my complaint at all.  My complaint is solely the lack of "wow, I'd really like to own that console."  The lack of backwards compatibility is just a point in the con column, that's all.

Quote from: Rolina on 05, June, 2013, 10:20:17 PMUm, I think you missed my point.  I gave examples of buggy games, not games you'll love.  Also, how the hell does "easier to develop for" mean more money?  It's higher quality, not more money.  And again, less bugs.  What, might I ask, are you looking for in a new console?  Specifically, that is?

Yes, I missed your point, because I didn't play any of those games.  That was the point of stating I don't like Bethesda games (because both of the examples were from that studio).  And "easier to develop for" means more money for the developers, mostly indirectly via better quality games meaning more sales.  As for what I'm looking for in a new console?  Already said that:

Quote from: Kioll on 01, June, 2013, 10:37:14 PMI'd rather see hardcore upgrades to gameplay and bring out new ways to game than see yet another otherwise excellent form of entertainment fall before the dark shadow of Facebook...

In other words, when looking for a new console, I'd like it to be... I don't know... new?  Hence "new console"?  Come on, people. You're getting overexcited about having a bunch of gold and copper in a plastic box that's mostly the same as the one you have now, with the 0's and 1's running through it being different.  Seriously.  As I said in one of my earliest posts, the only really "new" thing about it is the touchpad on the controller.  And the new's worn off on that, thanks to Nintendo beating Sony to the punch with the Wii U.  Although I'll admit, the PS4 controller is less clunky, the touch screen on it seems like it would be harder to use effectively thanks to size and location.  The PS4 is tons more powerful, I GET THAT!  It's going to be a better overall system.  I UNDERSTAND!  I never said it wouldn't.  I just said it wasn't interesting.  It's that simple.  Hardware upgrades aren't enough.  It's lacking features.  It's lacking new ways to play and interact.  Do you think I went out and spent $300 on a PS Vita thinking "Oh, hey, it's the new version of the PSP.  It has a better CPU, better GPU, and is going to have overall better games on it!"???  No.  I was thinking, "F*** yes, it's the new version of the PSP!  It's got a cool new feature!  Touch screens on the front and back???  THAT'S inventive!  It's got dual analog sticks and a gyroscope, six axis sensor, meaning it can tell how it's moved!  That means games that have interesting new ways to play!!!  I WANT!"  Looking at the PS4, all I see is "Oh, hey, it's got a new controller...  That's kinda neat.  What else does it have?  Faceboo-?  God...d***** Sony..."

I still really don't follow that train of logic, so I'm just gonna drop it before I say or do something stupid.  Instead, rejoice, everyone!  Alas, the XBO is even worse about DRM than we thought!  Wait, maybe rejoice was the wrong word...

Anywho, here's the articles:

http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/Always_Online_Connection
http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/Used_Games_and_Rentals
http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/Digital_Downloads_and_Installs

Thanks for the update.

First link:
-You must connect once every 24 hours... and you don't have to be Always Online.
Okay... Sounds like a recap...

Second link:
-Microsoft has given other publishers the ability to prevent their games from being given away, rented or traded.
Ouch.  Now developers get to be dictators with that kind of control!  The one with the most controls get the freedom, and the ones without it, get to be slaves...

-You can only give Xbox One games to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days.
I honestly don't see the point in even bothering with having this rule. Example: *Friends them, and unfriends them right after* What torture, but then again, it's not like people give games that often.

*Reads rest of page* Wow... so flawed... and now I'm wondering if this will attract hackers even more... To try and *break* the system. Pretty much anything to disable the internet-check... I would like to see how well the hackers progress... I wouldn't be surprised if someone puts up a fundraiser to get some stuff decapped by a professional company. 3dbrew (The #1 site for 3ds hacking, I think) has already raised over $2000 and seems to be at their goal, so I imagine any valid/trusted hacking site for a popular console would get plenty of donations in a years time.

Quote from: RoleNot sure.  We know there is going to be a small fee, but we don't know how much or what the specifics are yet.  Just stalk IGN until they find out, I suppose.

I'm guessing the fee is decided by the developers?


Link 3: Ah, so instead of installing your games to your console, you are installing it to their server... hmm.... I have a feeling you don't even need the disc anymore after the install... so...

Now I got to rethink my other question(s) for a second:

Quote from: me from page 3By the way... quick question about the used games fee. So if you had two of the same games for XBO, does it register for the game's title, so all game's with the same title work, or only just the one you put in? I'm curious to wonder if you could change the game's title value to match one that is already registered so you could bypass the fee...

Ofcourse, you could also try to find out how games are detected as used, and delete those values?

Chances are my second question would never work if those values are on their server. So if your console ever gets lost or breaks... you never lose any of your data. ; As for the title-change trick idea... I wouldn't be surprised if there was a check on the validity of the game. (For example, what if there is a checksum on the entire game?) I wouldn't be surprised if there was also some form of encryption used as well. This bites. Even with this... I still can't say if it is hack-proof or not, but I can guess that it might be very secure and involve quite a bit of advanced hacking? (Maybe even to the point of "hacking" their server if it is possible? Most likely not, since they could probably easily track it somehow... and send you to court.) But on the bright side, maybe there will be some exploits? Who knows...


I wonder if it is possible to "share" accounts? Assuming you can access them anywhere you can find an XBO and internet...  For example, suppose if you decided that the family member accounts would be shared by all your friends? (None specifically devoted to any friend.)
However, that would be a bit of a problem because of this: "You can always play your games, but only one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time. "




P.S = Anyone else think the topic's title should be changed to " All Xbox die-hard fans will be Enraged at this "Patent" "?

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/06/10/sony-sticks-it-to-microsoft-on-used-games-and-always-online-e3-2013-sony-conference

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/06/10/how-to-share-used-playstation-4-games

Also:  Kingdom Hearts 3 (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/11/e3-2013-kingdom-hearts-3-coming-to-ps4)

BURNED