Pretty much what the title says. For example, I honestly have to say that I really hate object shadows in the first two games. I mean, plain black circles suck when a lot of other things are actually a bit pretty to look at. I'll admit that battle shadows aren't too bad given how everything else in battle is distracting enough most of the time, but field shadows are the worst. It takes nothing to recolour them, but still. :|
Any? I 'm sure Golden Sun: Dark Dawn is "Enough said!" for some people... But anyway... even with the main two games... there may be a number of things....
-What does everyone think of Piers? Should he have been on the first game, or removed altogether?
-Should GS2 have had more castles?
-And the usual... Should the story have went on/Basically, was it too short.
-Forced tutorials. (i.e. Flint/Echo tutorial.)
-Silent protagonist.
But anyway, I myself could extend some of the complaints to the GBA hardware itself... (Like do away with the OAM section, have that optionally done in RAM if still needed, have VRAM only contain pixel info for screen... nothing else... (Basically 1 layer/all layers flattened. That's 240*160*2 bytes) so also get rid of Palette section...) (@VRAM: Or, remove that section and have it in normal RAM to add additional ease... I/O could have a pointer to this section, in this case... But not so sure about that...) ; Much of that could have been I/O stuff... or dev coded... Basically everything that makes things a bit simpler to add-on/do stuff through any complex coding methods you may choose.... However, I can say the DS did make one good improvement by combining the two RAMs (WRAM and IRAM) into what is called Main Memory.
It would have been cool if there was a GBA-like system with such improvements, though... unfortunately... the DS kept with the VRAM complexity.... and having Extended Palettes and such.... And I have a feeling 3DS gets even worst...? (But I haven't looked at their VRAM formatting.)
Oh yeah! In all honesty, I generally like silent protagonists to an extent. They work much better when they can act as a blank representation of the player though, which isn't the case in GS. The plot overall is okay, but there are so many points when characters would just ramble on about random stuff. There are also other points (many of them, in fact) where you could probably randomly assign their lines or remove their portraits and have almost no idea who is actually supposed to say them.
GBA hardware: Interesting... Basically making it so more can be left up to the developers themselves?
QuoteOh yeah! In all honesty, I generally like silent protagonists to an extent. They work much better when they can act as a blank representation of the player though, which isn't the case in GS. The plot overall is okay, but there are so many points when characters would just ramble on about random stuff. There are also other points (many of them, in fact) where you could probably randomly assign their lines or remove their portraits and have almost no idea who is actually supposed to say them.
Maybe both... but having to say "Yes" and "No" at times... and other characters responding to you ...without ever knowing what your character said in verbatim..... (It'd seem weird if yes/no is the only thing you ever say.)... might seem strange.... For the most part... I think we can label it as controversial enough to put in the list...
@GBA hardware: Yeah... Pretty much....
Here's one randomly, quick theory... if we were going for a current gen console?
0x00000000 = BIOS
0x02000000 = Main RAM (32 MB?)
0x04000000 = I/O (Possibly including Video Output if not in Main RAM)
And ROM would probably not be memory mapped... data could be loaded via I/O... (If ROMs are 4 GB, there wouldn't be enough room to memory-map them, anyway... on a 32-bit address level.) - Unless maybe...There was a second "memory-map" specifically for the ROM alone.... and a way to select between these memory maps? (Perhaps alternate ldr/str instructions or something?) But thinking on that level would make me think that BIOS / Main RAM / I/O should be on separate memory maps as well. (Probably meaning three accessible ones, since directly accessing BIOS (Aside from swi commands) would be unnecessary.) Then again, if one bit is used for picking memory map... sticking to two could work:
Memory Map 1:
00000000 = I/O
80000000 = RAM
Memory Map 2:
00000000 = ROM
Hmmm
1) Mia did not even tried to cure Dora when she was ill.
2) Isaac's party accepted to help Babi, even he being bad as the devil.
3) No Anemos.
4) Lame Lemuria.
5) "I'll fight enough for the both of us" line from Isaac in GS2 battle room.
6) No returning to GS1 locations in GS2.
Quote6) No returning to GS1 locations in GS2.
That one. So I'll add another.
-GS1 and GS2 should have been in the same game. (?) Maybe. Especially since I don't think there were any lack of space issues.. (And even afterwards, there would still be plenty of ROM space available for a 3rd game...)
-Mt. Aleph was too small of a dungeon, and it's sad that there were no returning points to it.... You know like more hidden stuff to be found there or something. - Trickier puzzles so that it is more believable of Menardi/Saturos falling for the trap. Well it is believable now... in a way... but still... The stars didn't feel very well guarded.
Okay. This topic was really bound to be made at some point.
I mostly dislike the low difficulty (mostly GS, though since I've played it a lot of times and only GSTLA has a hard mode).
The lower difficulty also means less strategy (you never actually have to switch classes) for me.
GSTLA might had some issues with long dungeons.
Other than that I like both games.
GSDD however... IDK I haven't played it much. The beginning just felt like some nostalgia reference-fest.
I don't think GSDD has outragously bad gameplay, I think the story has not much to add to the other games.
Quote1) Mia did not even tried to cure Dora when she was ill.
Certainly weird.
Quote3) No Anemos.
This could have been done in the sequel/prequel.
Quote6) No returning to GS1 locations in GS2.
Yeah, that was kinda a big bummer.
Quote-What does everyone think of Piers? Should he have been on the first game, or removed altogether?
No I think he's fine in GSTLA. He's weird and we never get to know his age, but I didn't find that a bad thing.
It is actually weirder that they haven't put him in GSDD.
Quote-Should GS2 have had more castles?
Nah. Because of the cultural thing GS had, this turned out pretty good. ankara, medieval society. All other continents, mostly not-western societies.
That's because you haven't played it much. There's a reason DD pissed the fandom off, and why for the most part I won't be taking it into consideration for my contrubution to the thread.
For me... The lazyness of the developers. Look at the class system in the first game. It's tailor made for Isaac's team. Look at the class system in the second game. It's tailor made for Isaac's team still... even though you're not playing as them for most of the game. This led to two characters being virtual clones of their TBS counterparts, and for the other two characters have alt classes that completely change how you approach them. Sure, Jenna's a Mage, but you set her up like a Warrior, didn't you? Sure, Piers is a Warrior, but you sure didn't use him in that Alt-class run, did ya? Then we get Dark Dawn, and still, pretty much every class is made with team Isaac in mind. Heck, two thirds of the "new" classes are just old classes with small tweaks and different names. That's right - only two classes that could actually be considered new.
Another thing I don't like is the static/dynamic dichotomy present with spells and attacks. Spells never grow in power, while every time you level up, get a new weapon, or hell, even get new armor sometimes, your ability to hit hard with the attack command gets bigger. Add on the fact that the source of damage increasing for spells also increases the power of physical attacks, and you get the endgames of TLA and DD. That is to say buffs and heals are the only spells ever used.
Quote from: Rolina on 09, November, 2015, 08:12:50 AM
Another thing I don't like is the static/dynamic dichotomy present with spells and attacks. Spells never grow in power, while every time you level up, get a new weapon, or hell, even get new armor sometimes, your ability to hit hard with the attack command gets bigger. Add on the fact that the source of damage increasing for spells also increases the power of physical attacks, and you get the endgames of TLA and DD. That is to say buffs and heals are the only spells ever used.
Ha! Yes that exactly. I remember one of my first GS runs where everybody always attacked, except for Ivan sometimes.
The Dual-elemental classes have actually pretty good psynergy, in my opinion.
Ok, I'll contribute to this conversation.
-Felix's silence was OK when I was younger, but I honestly think he deserves a bit more personality then just "Why?" and "....!?" Chalk it up to being older and expecting more, I suppose.
-There was this one Island where I couldn't do ANYTHING to get a djnn. I think it was the one with the waterfall going DOWN the screen
-Doom Dragon's OPness.
I did like the class system though, it allowed for one to be quite the little tactician, even when in charge of a team of 4.
-Also didn't exactly like how I somehow managed to ignore Sheba for most of my life, which resulted in me never learning about her little "Destiny" thing.
Not sure if you knew, but "Why?" was a translation error... - So the existence of translation errors can surely be added to the list? (Although, not that much of a big deal as long as it's at least somewhat right.)
Also, getting stuck on one of the islands because you saved/reset passed the box that drops... bugs like that... would be more deserving of being on the list....
QuoteNo returning to GS1 locations in GS2.
This is up there as my biggest complaint. It is also the reason I chose Imil for my demo village. I loved the snow atmosphere personally, but I also wanted to do a demo based around Book 2 where the party visits towns in the first GS. So in terms of plot timeline it would be post party reunion and pre mars lighting.
Quote from: Rolina on 09, November, 2015, 08:12:50 AM
For me... The lazyness of the developers. Look at the class system in the first game. It's tailor made for Isaac's team. Look at the class system in the second game. It's tailor made for Isaac's team still... even though you're not playing as them for most of the game. This led to two characters being virtual clones of their TBS counterparts, and for the other two characters have alt classes that completely change how you approach them. Sure, Jenna's a Mage, but you set her up like a Warrior, didn't you? Sure, Piers is a Warrior, but you sure didn't use him in that Alt-class run, did ya?
This one, definitively. Above everything else.
The lack of a "magic power" stat is a close second, and after those 2, the uselessness of some status effects.
Quote from: OpenGoldenSun on 10, November, 2015, 01:21:55 PM
QuoteNo returning to GS1 locations in GS2.
This is up there as my biggest complaint. It is also the reason I chose Imil for my demo village. I loved the snow atmosphere personally, but I also wanted to do a demo based around Book 2 where the party visits towns in the first GS. So in terms of plot timeline it would be post party reunion and pre mars lighting.
You're THE man to fix it! :)
Yeah, so much could be done... He could do a remake with a bunch of extra good stuff and it'd be at least 2x better than the originals...
Oh yes, and having to go through dialogue to continue playing the game can also be annoying-ish if you don't like them. Push Start to make the characters get to the point, maybe?
Consider using the method Square enix uses - start to pause during the cutscene, then hit A to skip cutscene. Have it bring up a dialogue to confirm the choice, and there you go. That way it's there, but also can't be triggered accidently.
— Lack of any sort of magic damage stat is up there. In GS1 it's somewhat made up for by the existence of a physical defence stat, which can lead to Psynergy actually dealing more damage than physical attacks. In GS2 and Dark Dawn, defence stats are universally too low.
— Piers. Just Piers in general. He shows relatively little personality, levels up stupidly slowly, has terrible stats in his base class, has mediocre base stats, and has very limited access to physical alt classes.
— Ridiculously low base activation rate of many status effects. With Luck having as much of an influence as it does and normal enemies dying in 1 to 2 turns anyway while bosses have such high Luck, a higher base activation rate would do a lot to make status effects more useful overall.
I 100% with for the second and third points, though I only half agree with the first. There are the ePower/eResistance stats, and the idea behind having them rather than overall magic stats is pretty neat; the better you are in an element, the more powerful abilities of that element should be while also being able to resist those same spells yourself. Likewise, you'll do poorly with/against an element unless you equip some djinn or gear (or summon something) to make yourself better. The downside is that battles in general seem pretty lopsided towards the huge Attack and Agility growths that PCs gain, while enemies never gaining any useful stats or counters against them as you progress.
Plus, using a tier-4+ summon can easily cap your ePower if it's your base element (+100 to whatever element uses 4+ djinn and I think it lasts the whole battle, making gear that boosts it somewhat less useful). The base ePow/eRes stats even start off being or almost being literally halfway to their max totals.
Having higher defence stats and/or even some enemies that only take scratch damage from physical attacks in general would be a relatively minor fix to help make psynergy more useful, but a broader redistribution of stat growths and buffs would probably be better in the long run. At the very least so universal magic stats aren't needed as a quick fix. May not be to consider a very minor enemy scaling mechanic either, but that would have to be handled pretty carefully I think.
Quote from: Rolina on 09, November, 2015, 08:12:50 AMAnother thing I don't like is the static/dynamic dichotomy present with spells and attacks. Spells never grow in power, while every time you level up, get a new weapon, or hell, even get new armor sometimes, your ability to hit hard with the attack command gets bigger. Add on the fact that the source of damage increasing for spells also increases the power of physical attacks, and you get the endgames of TLA and DD. That is to say buffs and heals are the only spells ever used.
@Squirtle: Actually, epower is @#$% tier for empowering spells, and boosts freaking physical attacks too. Without legit stat support for psynergy, it'll never be as strong as they claim it is in game. When a freaking wooden stick can outdamage Grand freaking Gaia, I don't wanna hear the Epower claims, especially with that lower power cap.
Correct!
ePower boosts physical attacks as well... But I think it is by half as much...if I remember correctly...(i.e. Added Damage/Multiplier types...etc.) If your Relative Attack is around 0, then ePow-only spells could maybe be around ~x2 stronger, in that case? (Would prefer actually laying out some stats for confirmation, but anyway....) Edit again: If the enemy's defense is higher than your own attack... then could be something to think about... (Which was probably the purpose of this? - Almost want to test having Relative Attack being negative 2 times whatever power you set for the spell/attack. :P )
Edit again: And if you even catch up to the enemy's defense? Well! Give the enemy a Def UP status method/ability. (I know it isn't that simple, but I'm just saying it can take a lot of thinking....) I think I prefer creativity when not lazy... and maybe have different calculation methods as well... (Say like, there was one boss in RuneScape that's damage was based on how many fires you had out... and you own stats had no effect on them.)
Kind of the way I think of it: "Base Damage" means spell, and "Added Damage" means physical attack, I think....
Quote from: Fox on 18, November, 2015, 09:31:55 AM
Correct!
ePower boosts physical attacks as well... But I think it is by half as much...if I remember correctly...(i.e. Added Damage/Multiplier types...etc.) If your Relative Attack is around 0, then ePow-only spells could maybe be around ~x2 stronger, in that case?
Yes, epower affects physical blows half than it does to base damage/summons. But that's another story. The main complain to the epower system for spells is that, unlike for phys. attacks, it doesn't have the magic equivalent of attack and defense. A power/resist system for elemental proficiency is great, but it can't stand on its own. it desperately needs to act as a mere multiplier to more generic stats (that increase with level), or extremes like wooden stick stronger than grand gaia inevitably pop up.
While they certainly aren't very good to start with, in theory they could be much better if every stat was actually balanced to avoid the huge attack/agility slant that encourages physical attacks. Mainly because the idea seems to be that while everyone can be a spellsword, characters will generally lean one way much more than the other in stats and equipment options; that's why even classes that are geared towards fighters can still have some good healing spells and ailments in them, for example. The way enemies are balanced doesn't help either.
Actually, now that I think about it, I had a relatively simple solution for this that works pretty well. I halved the starting ePow/eRes stats (so ePow in your base element starts at 50 rather than 100; others went to 25 from 75) and doubled the power of base power and other non-physical and non-healing psynergy (leaf's suggestion, but I like it for the most part). This essentially halves the effectiveness of ePower on other ability types while keeping those ones the same, but it also makes their maximum potential higher; even more so with caps raised from 200 to 250. I did this in Disco Sun, but I think I still have to balance enemies to fit these new changes... Oh well, maybe I can do that when the term ends.
it's still nowhere near enough. i can tell because before the pp multiplier i tried a similar but opposite approach: raising base power spell by an amount dependant on base power itself. something like bp=bp*1+bp/1000. while your approach is obviously better than mine cause it has a lot more room for making adjustment, mages will still suffer from power spikes: strong as soon as they learned their latest spell, then weaker and weaker. this is even more noticeable with dual and 3 element classes, where the level gap between new spells widens.
The game really needs a magic stat that grows with level, there's no way around it.
Hmm... Thinking of a game where physical attacks should rarely be priority... (For Attack's weaker power, it could maybe have a fast animation compared to spells?)
-What if you gained a spell for every level, and your latest spell was at level 99? .... Both physical and magic stop growing at that point.
-How about better management of PP cost? (So that once you get a useful spell, the max amount of PP could maybe allow you to use it only once...(i.e. If you max PP is 100, you can make PP cost as low as 51... for this random theory.) By the time you get your next spell, maybe 2+ times... etc. When you first get the spell, it's obvious the lower spell would still be more useful if it already takes a couple turns to defeat the enemy. (Imagine one ability costing 10 PP that does 10 damage, and the next ability costing 20 PP and doing 15 damage... as a random example.)
-Not sure if including a formula to make your physical level have an affect on magic-only spells... Or more generally, a way to artificially calculate magic stat without storing it in RAM. And if it is stored in RAM, where would it be/how would you do it? (I mean, sure there's enough space if you store it in certain locations, but anyway.)
The worst part is that when you start complicating things, you can get to a flawful/unbalanced game pretty easily... unfortunately.
Caledor: Haha, well, maybe. I think we may be comparing apples and oranges though, since I'm also changing how most stats are balanced and/or distributed in order to make sure my method works out. Also items and djinn/summons (the former is WIP, the latter is most done already). Testing so far seems to have everything work out well enough, but I'll probably need to release a patch so you (and/or others) can see for yourself. May work on some of the finishing touches tonight actually...
You definitely raise a good point about dual and tri-elemental classes though. Especially because the maximum damage multiplier you can get in the highest tier of a dual class would be about half that of a mono class... which explains why you can pretty much beat the game without utilizing the class system at all. My plan is to have a lot of gear to get around that, but it'll need some work. Maybe a lower personal djinn cap as well, but I don't know. That does remind me of something though:
Something else I dislike: GS1 was really bad for this, but the djinni count/distribution in all three games is pretty bad. In GS1 for example, you can use every summon right after Lamakan Desert if you can find every djinni up until then. Lamakan as in shortly before the midpoint of the game. After which you can get all but three of the remaining ones between the ship and the end of the game (two micro dungeons and one optional). That means, if you cut out Colosso and the Karagol trip, the rest of the game can give you up to nine djinn with only five dungeons remaining (Suhalla Gate is more like a mini-dungeon for how short it is and Babi/Venus Lighthouses are joined together). Two of those dungeons are also entirely optional and only yield one djinni each, and on top of that at least a handful of the remaining djinn just hang out in towns. In broad daylight.
So... GS1, once you get Vine following Lamakan, gives you a whopping 12 djinn over three optional dungeons, three mandatory full dungeons, three mini/micro dungeons, and two battle gauntlets (Colosso and Karagol). And 4-5 towns. For reference, the remaining 16 came from about 9 towns and 9 full dungeons (discounting multiple dungeons within the same world map location). If you discount the gauntlets, then you would pretty much be able to speed through the rest of the game and almost double your djinn count in less time than it took you to get the first 16.
GS2 wasn't that great with it either, but at least it was better in that it maintained a relatively consistent supply of them until you hit Lemuria (about 6 of each upon entering for the first time). After which the game swamps you with opportunities to collect more again, but at least it can be somewhat harder to find a number of them if you don't explore and/or revisit old areas. It's worse in GS1 because that game is more linear, meaning that you are more likely to find almost all of them even if you don't revisit old areas. I think there are all of 2-3 djinn that require you to revisit towns with new psynergy, and 3 that are hidden on the world map.
I hope that little "rant" made sense...
Fox: Um, like an entirely different game? I have to admit your post is confusing me a tiny bit! As for artificially calculating a general magic power stat, maybe something more like a magic proficiency value based on the sum of every ePow/eRes that acts as an additional multiplier of some sort?
QuoteCaledor: Haha, well, maybe. I think we may be comparing apples and oranges though, since I'm also changing how most stats are balanced and/or distributed in order to make sure my method works out. Also items and djinn/summons (the former is WIP, the latter is most done already). Testing so far seems to have everything work out well enough, but I'll probably need to release a patch so you (and/or others) can see for yourself. May work on some of the finishing touches tonight actually...
Good to know then, and i'm really interested in how it will turn out.
QuoteFox: Um, like an entirely different game? I have to admit your post is confusing me a tiny bit! As for artificially calculating a general magic power stat, maybe something more like a magic proficiency value based on the sum of every ePow/eRes that acts as an additional multiplier of some sort?
Remember that the main point of having magic power/resist stats non related to power is for them to be changed by classes. Sure, it can be calculated artificially (after all... everything is "calculated artificially" if you think about it), but for the best result you'd need the 8 chars magic stat growth tables, and another table with 243 entries (one per class slot) that multiplies said stat depending on class. and you'd still not have a single piece of equipment that affects it.
@Entirely different game - Sort of, yeah... but still using GS's engine. (Which doesn't mean that it is necessarily a GS game... Of course, unique remakes count as well... I don't expect those to be limited by only GS-standards, depending on the type of remake it is. - i.e. turn Golden Sun into a Mario game with the same plot as Golden Sun... battles could still be different, etc. - Might be fun to think about? Jenna could be Peach because she's kidnapped in the beginning... and because of Isaac vs. Jenna marriage might fit with Mario vs. Peach? - And Sheba? Maybe Rosalina or something.... (Because I'm thinking of Anemos as a planet, and it references Super Mario Galaxy.) (Whether these people would be the same element, I haven't decided, but I'm sure their personalities would/should be different.).
"calculated artificially"... was bad wording...I think? (Implying to "fake" the magic stat by not having it as a RAM value, but with a similar effect.) Pretty much, I meant calculating it every time you need it rather than calculating it and storing in RAM for later use. - You could still do that with a level-up table.... and equipment checks... But if you have anything like Apples, Hard Nuts, etc... that you use.... then you'll probably want some RAM values... -- Although I know I wasn't direct, I believe that part of the post was more referring to helping with Caledor's hack... but I will have to check if Caledor wanted such a thing for whatever hack it was....
The thing is, if you have proper stats for psynergy, it opens up a hell of a lot of things. Added Damage no longer applies only to physical attacks - you could have spell versions of those. Imagine if the Fume series acted like a caster-version of Raganarok - growing powerful in level and tier as you get stronger yourself. Now, don't get me wrong - there's definitely a point to base damage spells. While I think there should be some influence from Casting and Warding, I don't think it should be too much. Enough to make it so natural spellcasters will have an edge, but not so much that natural warriors shouldn't bother. This would also help with the max cap problem - spells used to hit their cap super easy at 200, and there's no way to boost it further. Physical attacks not only got some power from that, though - they had a cap of 999 in TBS/TLA, and 1999 in DD. Parity here would help spells not only keep up, but give us tons of fun and interesting options as to what we can do with them.
And I'm not saying that spells should just be another attack command, either. There should be pros and cons to both. Physical attacks have a 0 cost alternative, and can not only crit, but have a chance of unleash as well. The downside of physical blows is that they should be more focused - lower magnitudes and smaller areas. Spells strike wider areas with greater magnitude. The downsides for them is that there is no 0 cost spell, and they don't quite reach the point damage that an equivalent physical blow could reach. So there's easily ways to balance this that would not only give spells a freaking use in battle, but that would also give you reason to use one over the other.
Quote from: Fox on 20, November, 2015, 11:30:05 PM
"calculated artificially"... was bad wording...I think? (Implying to "fake" the magic stat by not having it as a RAM value, but with a similar effect.) Pretty much, I meant calculating it every time you need it rather than calculating it and storing in RAM for later use. - You could still do that with a level-up table.... and equipment checks... But if you have anything like Apples, Hard Nuts, etc... that you use.... then you'll probably want some RAM values... -- Although I know I wasn't direct, I believe that part of the post was more referring to helping with Caledor's hack... but I will have to check if Caledor wanted such a thing for whatever hack it was....
for the most part, i'm VERY satisfied with the pp multiplier patch. despite being a mere workaround if compared to the more proper magic system we're discussing, it exceeded all my expectations due to being amazingly simple and for having some positive side effects i didn't take into account at first (making offensive caster favor pp increase and healers pp regen to name one). So i don't think i'd change it now, but it's definitively worth to keep discussing this matter further for something like open golden sun.
QuoteNow, don't get me wrong - there's definitely a point to base damage spells.
I don't even think this is even possible... base damage would be to spells (with proper stat support) like base attack is to weapons after all. :D
ps: we should think about a "healing" stat as well IMO
Okay, fair enough.
Quoteps: we should think about a "healing" stat as well IMO
No idea? What if healing psynergy is removed in an effort to make healing items more useful? - Or maybe go even further... (If thinking about a difficulty hack).... basically no healing psynergy nor healing items... so that Inns can now be useful for the first time ever. (@first time ever: Then again, with Salanewt's time hack, I think Inns would allow for bypassing time?)
Do that, and get rid of Cure Poison/Restore.... and Antidotes suddenly become valuable as well?... so raise their price! Heh. - That, and some other... heheh.... sneaky tidbits... like all items should be unstackable... and.... You know, that might actually be fun... hm...
Following that strategy, I could still see maybe being able to buy healing items like at the last town (as unstackable), maybe... depending on one's taste... (Might add some flavor to back-tracking... but I doubt it's necessary.... would be more useful for the final boss. Including training for it.)
base attack being "Added Damage" I guess? - So yeah, if we had all three... then we'd need different naming conventions than Atrius's Editor. (I bet Camelot actually had other names for them in their source code, anyway.)
Oh, I think Base damage should definitely have influence from a Casting and Warding stat, but not a full influence - I currently like a 1/6 influence from the stats. Enough to grow and to let mages stand out, but also enough to give warriors purpose behind using them.
@Healing stat: No? Healing's actually OP in GS. The way it's handled right now is pretty good, I think. Who does and doesn't get healing is a matter of dev philosophy at this point, so all you really have to do is better balance the cost to power ratio.
Healing is op in base GS due to its high base power coupled with being EXTREMELY undercosted. after some much needed balancing, the healing stat would simply be used to make some classes better than others at it or even to make it scale with class "rank" itself.
Quote from: Rolina on 24, November, 2015, 08:26:12 AM@Healing stat: No? Healing's actually OP in GS. The way it's handled right now is pretty good, I think. Who does and doesn't get healing is a matter of dev philosophy at this point, so all you really have to do is better balance the cost to power ratio.
On that note:
— Flat value healing. The Tales series sans Zestiria does healing the best out of any RPG I've played, and it's the only series I've run into that does all healing that way. While in Golden Sun strictly percent-based healing has the problem of ignoring the Elemental Power stat, that could easily be factored in anyway. Calculate the amount healed based on percent of target's max HP, then multiply by (Elemental Power/100) as normal. (Though you get effectively the same result by multiplying the percentage by (epower/100) and then taking that percent of the target's max HP. For example, with the usual base 104 EPower in primary element, 30% x (104/100) = 31.2%.) Though perhaps something like ((EPower + 100)/200) might work better for the sake of balance.
(That would be a really cool patch to have, by the way. Replace the current "restore X% of HP" effects with one that actually uses the ability's power value to determine the amount healed, as (base power/10)%, and factors in elemental power with heal% * ((epower + 100)/200). This would be even cooler if it diminished over area as the healing/base damage formulae normally do.)
In fact, the flat-value healing is an even bigger issue in GS's engine due to the lack of dedicated Psy Attack/Psy Defence stats, since that means that tanking base damage vs. tanking physical is based on max HP relative to Defence.
If nothing else, you can do what Disgaea does and tie it to the spell defense stat - Warding by my terminology. Without thorough testing though, I don't really see the point of applying this to healing. For all I know it could be necessary, but for now I'll stick with my adjustments.
— GS1's intro scene, where the Boulder falls and strikes Vale. The whole scenario is badly executed, and that has a lot to do with the large Psynergy Stone at the centre of the plaza.
• First change: Vale does not have a large, permanent Psynergy Stone in the plaza.
• Second change: Even if an individual possesses the potential to develop Psynergy use, if that potential is entirely untapped (such as in the case of a very young Adept) then that individual will not absorb the smaller Psynergy Stones on contact.
• Third change: The people of Vale (or Adepts in general) have developed tools to allow Adepts to transport small Psynergy Stones without absorbing them. This would probably take the form of specialized containers and a lift system of some sort to pick them up with, quite possibly just a seesaw-like lever device that can be easily transported, accompanied by a large board used to push Psynergy Stones onto the lever so they can be deposited into the containers.
• Fourth change: Very minor eruptions of Mount Aleph are common. There's not really much ceremony to them: there's a tiny amount of lava flow and the volcano spits Psynergy Stones all around the immediate area.
• Fifth change: The plaza contains a storehouse where Psynergy Stones the volcano spits out are stored, along with the equipment used to collect them.
Suddenly, a lot of things are able to make sense. Dora sends an unnamed NPC to go to the plaza and bring back Psynergy Stones for the rest of them so they can save Felix. She sends Isaac in the same general direction, telling him to leave the village and get to safety. As in the original scenario, Isaac encounters Garet along the way. Upon arriving in the plaza, Isaac and Garet overhear a conversation between the unnamed NPC and the mayor in which it is revealed that one of the many smaller boulders crashed into the Psynergy Stone storehouse and wrecked the transportation equipment. The unnamed NPC then notices Isaac and Garet and requests that they carry some Psynergy Stones back to Felix's family, since the pair haven't tapped into their Psynergy potential yet and thus can carry Psynergy Stones without absorbing them. The NPC then heads into the storehouse to replenish his own Psynergy with one of the stones, then immediately runs off to the north again. Isaac and Garet each grab a Psynergy Stone, and the player is left to take them back to Dora and co.. Scenario proceeds basically as normal from there. (Though a full-village camera pan after the boulder falls to show the full scope of the devastation might be in order.)
Honestly, I would prefer a text intro to deal with all the past stuff, but I can definitely agree with your fan prologue being better than what was actually in the game. And also the way you resolved some of the other issues with the plot as well.
QuoteDora sends an unnamed NPC to go to the plaza and bring back Psynergy Stones for the rest of them so they can save Felix.
Although in this instance, Dora sending Jenna out would probably be better than some random NPC. She could even be attacked and/or halted by some monster, which would explain why she never returned in that scenario.
Also, everything that happens with Tret and the purple-haired chick may be a tad harder to explain unless you trim those parts of the story a bit. It would probably make the plot better as a whole if everything could be trimmed down a bit, but still.
Um... I don't know about young kids not being able to absorb them... Perhaps it'd be better to say that the ability to absorb is slow enough to bring them...
They might not have any learned abilities or any class, but they do have a small amount of PP, right?
Edit: Oh, and then there's Eoleo.... forget how old he was. (I assume he used psynergy at one point? But I forget.)
Quote from: Lord Squirtle on 25, November, 2015, 04:56:20 PM
Honestly, I would prefer a text intro to deal with all the past stuff, but I can definitely agree with your fan prologue being better than what was actually in the game. And also the way you resolved some of the other issues with the plot as well.
QuoteDora sends an unnamed NPC to go to the plaza and bring back Psynergy Stones for the rest of them so they can save Felix.
Although in this instance, Dora sending Jenna out would probably be better than some random NPC. She could even be attacked and/or halted by some monster, which would explain why she never returned in that scenario.
Also, everything that happens with Tret and the purple-haired chick may be a tad harder to explain unless you trim those parts of the story a bit. It would probably make the plot better as a whole if everything could be trimmed down a bit, but still.
Dora sending an unnamed NPC (the same one who, in the original prologue, is already at the plaza Psynergy Stone when Isaac gets there) works better because Jenna wouldn't be sent to retrieve Psynergy Stones for the same reason Isaac wouldn't be: she's just a kid. Having Jenna be told to go with Isaac and get out of the village would work as well, though, since it results in the same scenario but with one more kid to carry Psynergy Stones and explains why Jenna's still in the village rather than being rescued and held hostage post-boulder impact as with her parents.
Forgot to add an "under ordinary circumstances" to my second point regarding not-yet-Adepts not absorbing Psynergy Stones. In this case, being hit on the head by a Psynergy Stone traveling at a high enough velocity to shatter on impact even
without being absorbed would not be "ordinary circumstances".
Quote from: Fox on 25, November, 2015, 05:11:48 PM
Um... I don't know about young kids not being able to absorb them... Perhaps it'd be better to say that the ability to absorb is slow enough to bring them...
They might not have any learned abilities or any class, but they do have a small amount of PP, right?
That's pretty much what I was getting at. Mostly that the rate at which they absorb them is super low; so low as to be basically nonexistent with essentially no development of Psynergy ability or training.
Okay, then... Although I sort of doubt "super low" would be correct enough...(?)
@
QuoteForgot to add an "under ordinary circumstances" to my second point regarding not-yet-Adepts not absorbing Psynergy Stones. In this case, being hit on the head by a Psynergy Stone traveling at a high enough velocity to shatter on impact even without being absorbed would not be "ordinary circumstances"
.... would this be talking about Eoleo?
A moment ago I was thinking about Eoleo.. (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Eoleo)
Basically, he's a toddler, and when he was hit by a Psynergy Stone, it resulted in him.... well... he ended up getting adept powers... (Telekinesis)
Just to point out just how powerful Psynergy Stones are... even for just a toddler!
I am not sure what to say about speed of psynergy stones, or what evidence there might be to support any theories... Aside from the idea that Psynergy Stones seem to have an effect on everyone. (Maybe I should check the werewolves out.)
I'm not suggesting it works perfectly with canon as-is, but then canon doesn't really work perfectly with itself so not much is different there.
Regardless of whether or not Psynergy Stones affect everyone, the idea is that only someone or something with trained (or otherwise "unlocked") Psynergy will absorb all the energy from them (thus causing them to destabilize and shatter) with mere physical contact.
Yeah.... There are likely a bunch of things where one canon event might contradict another....
Only being able to fully absorb if you have unlocked abilities.... possibly....
However, I also think that I like the idea of multiple tiers of Psynergy Stones.... some of which you can absorb faster than others. (But ofcourse, that's probably based on stone size.) All the in-game ones that you absorb seem to be nearly the same size?
This means that you can have Psy Stones that .... say fills your PP 50%, and not 100%, etc.
(Max PP / 2) + cur PP