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General Hacking => Project List => Topic started by: Caledor on December 22, 2016, 08:56:07 PM



Title: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on December 22, 2016, 08:56:07 PM
Hi guys n' girls.

Here it is, the long awaited sequel to "The Balance Age (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2612.0)", which contains everything from the old mod + a lot of new stuff.

The goal, as always, is to provide a harder and not too straightforward game, meant to be enjoyed by players that are quite knowledgeable with the game mechanics and want to try other things than Megiddo & Summon Rush.

But let's get into details.

 :save: Documentation (Unrefined, contains parts in italian, comments allowed everywhere):  **NEW**
Class doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W9VJcbmV5l6wGSiDO4oM6IV566i7XvVFQs_5WT0ajN8 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W9VJcbmV5l6wGSiDO4oM6IV566i7XvVFQs_5WT0ajN8)
Equipment doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0HGGK5up3MWgbSgeysR8VQ3YzFT8YOy (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0HGGK5up3MWgbSgeysR8VQ3YzFT8YOy/edit#gid=140150310)
Psynergy doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ub3UfJimPP7VcXcsZV45t0X8EMMTIWPM (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ub3UfJimPP7VcXcsZV45t0X8EMMTIWPM/edit#gid=1066041648)
RNG Guide (GameFAQs, for drops): https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gba/561356-golden-sun-the-lost-age/faqs/25734 (https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gba/561356-golden-sun-the-lost-age/faqs/25734)

 :!: Tech tips: What to do when experiencing a crash or a freeze
If you encounter freezes, crashes or other technical oddities, please try patching a different clean rom or try a different emulator before reporting.
The emulator I use is VBA-M 1.8.0 SVN1243.
Always include details about the emulator where you experienced the crash or freeze in reports and if the same happens in VBA as well.

 :fight: Classes: New and revamped classes, new djinn progression for item classes, stat bonuses in 5% steps, partial classes removed from TLA, new magic resistance stat tied to classes.
HERE (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4izpdMnaorhNk1veHhWb1EyQnc/view?usp=sharing) you can find a txt file that lists every perfect class setup (hence, no djinn wasted) that can be created in TLA with this mod.

Felix's and Sheba's starting classes now are different from Isaac's and Ivan's respectively. Inspiration for their classes (both in names and spells) was taken from Rolina's Class Tweaks for TLA (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2094.0).
Jenna and Piers have a completely new set of classes made almost entirely from scratch: Jenna's classes are mostly mage-ish while Piers' are mostly warrior-ish.

Each class line has a Magic Resistance value (WRD in the class doc) that alters damage taken from Base Damage attacks. For example a 95% WRD means that a character in that class will take 5% more damage from Base Damage attacks.

A fourth three-elemental class has been added to EVERYONE, to fill the djinn combination gap left by the other three. So, Venus/Mars characters gain the 5 :VenusStar: 5 :MarsStar: 4 :MercuryStar: class and Jupiter/Mercury characters gain the 5 :JupiterStar: 5 :MercuryStar: 4 :MarsStar: class.

Item classes can be go up a tier by adding 3 djinn of a specific new element instead of keeping them balanced (full explanation here (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2779.msg48211#msg48211)). The order for each class is:
Acrobat: Fire - Water - Wind - Earth
Dragontamer: Earth - Wind - Water - Fire
Necromancer: Wind - Fire - Earth - Water

 :Isaac: Characters: Characters' base stats and starting levels rearranged. Piers levels up faster. Stats gained at level up are fixed and unaffected by RNG.
Characters' base stats were rearranged to balance them out and at the same time make differences between them more striking, cause those changes are (for the most part) reflected by the stat multipliers of the base classes. For example: Sheba is now everything that Ivan was: best caster and frailest character. Ivan also gained more attack. Piers improved with more PP and HP at the expense of Felix. Piers is also a better caster than Isaac now. Mia has now second best PP but also second worst ATK.

Characters also have more innate HP (they gain less from Djinn though) to make them more resilient to summons; luck grows with levels to complement the changes made to the debuff mechanic. Leveling up doesn't depend on RNG anymore.

In TLA, Jenna starts at 4 and Piers levels up faster (while still being the slowest).

 :buy: Items & Equipment: Weapon categories system, new items added, tweaked MANY others. Some treasures have been rearranged in TLA. New attribute "Ailments" found on equipment.
Almost every piece of equipment has been tweaked.

The Golden Rule: Each piece of equipment found/bought in the game is stronger than anything (of the same type) you could find at an earlier point in the game and weaker than anything found later. Shops (and some chests) have been changed accordingly.

Weapon categories
  • Long Swords: standard weapon
  • Light Blades: -Atk, +Agility, +Defense
  • Axes: +Atk, -Def
  • Maces: -Atk, -5% Unleash Rate, +MaxHP/Power/Ailments
  • Staves: --Atk, +5% Unleash Rate, +MaxPP/Power
  • Ankhs: --Atk, +5% Unleash Rate, +Power/Luck/Ailments

Ailments boosts the chance to hit enemies with debuffs, negative statuses and anything else that requires a Luck check on the enemy. It directly increases the percentile chance by the amount shown on the item, just like how the Criticals attribute increases the chance to unleash.

Each forgeable material now has a "target level range" and the places where they can be found have been changed accordingly.
Tear stone: ~21. very early eastern sea.
Stardust: ~23. early to mid eastern sea. Taopo, aqua rock and early gaia rock.
Sylph feather: ~25. Mid to late e.sea. Ankhol to Lemuria.
Dragon Skin: ~28. early w.sea. From right after grind till shaman village.
Golem Core: ~30. Contigo till reunion.
Sala Tail: ~33. From reunion to Loho.
Mythril silver: ~35. Loho to Prox.
Orichalcon & Dark Matter: After teleport.

 :Attack: Unleashes: All attack based unleashes use multipliers. Unleashing mages are now a viable option.
The standard unleash rate is now 30%.

Armageddon's (Megiddo) multiplier is now x2.4, Ceres' Legend and Heaven Vengeance had their added damage part reduced.

Some unleashes had their element changed. Among the most notable ones, Acheron's Grief is now non-elemental and High Vitals changed to Mercury.

Every unleash of non-staff weapons uses a multiplier to increase damage. Staves' unleashes are all base damage type.

 :psynergy: Psynergy, Healing & Reviving: New psynergies added. Max PP stat increases damage dealt by Base Damage psynergies. Reviving tweaked, group healing costs MUCH more. Healing mechanic tweaked. Power and Resistance cap raised to 255. Last psynergy is learnt at 42.
New psynergies: Tyrfing (Venus equivalent of Quick Strike), Meltdown (Mars equivalent of Quick Strike), Waterspout (Mercury equivalent of Quick Strike), Rolling Fire (Stronger mars Ghost Soldier), Sabre Rain (upgrade to Pierrot's Sabre Dance), Punishment series (Stronger Jupiter Fume), Boon series (from DD), Heal series (Group healing Venus psynergies), Bravery/Courage (Venus Impact/High Impact), Blessing (clone of DD's Weapon Grace), Raise (Mars equivalent of Revive), Remedy (a single target Tonic). Poison and Paralyze are available.

The new base damage formula is Damage = (Base Power + MaxPP/8) * Elemental_Factor * (1+(MaxPP/1024)).
PP cost for base damage psynergies recalculated from scratch with a custom made formula I wrote in order to make Power weight more than range.

Group healing and reviving psynergies cost MUCH more, as well as the strongest single target healing psynergies. Reviving effects now have ALL a 100% success rate BUT Revive, Raise, Lich and Phoenix revive only to 50% HP. Water of Life revives to 25% HP.

The Necromancer's Call Demon/Dullahan are base damage type spells. Call Dullahan is the strongest base damage psynergy in the game. The Pierrot's Card and Juggle series are also stronger. Frost Card is the strongest Mercury base damage psynergy in the game, Bramble Card and Thunder Card have a chance to debuff their targets.

Drain and Psy Drain are stronger and never miss. Psy Crystal restores 200 PP.

Endgame EPAs except Quick Strike, Tyrfing, Meltdown, Waterspout, Minotaur and Annhilation have a chance to debuff the target or to partially ignore defense.
All EPAs are multiplier based, endgame ones are now closer in power to unleashes.

Elemental Power doesn't affect healing spells as much as before (half of the original bonus/malus).
New formula: HP healed = Base_Power * [((Ele_Power-100)/2 + 100)/100]

 :Revive: Buffs, Debuffs & Ailments: Debuffs are now useful against bosses. ST Buffs/Debuffs have lower duration. Defense buff/debuff are stronger, Resistance ones are weaker
Haunt triggering rate is 40%. Characters wrapped in Delusion can't unleash and regular attacks miss more often. Death Curse's countdown starts at 4 instead of 7.

Resistance buffs and debuffs increase and decrease resistance by 15/30 instead of 20/40, and they cap at +-60 instead of +-80.
Defense buffs and debuffs are stronger: buffs go from x1,1875 to x1,75 (in 4 steps as usual).
Similarily, debuffs go from x0,8125 to x0,25.

Single target buffs/debuffs have lower duration and base infliction rate than MT buffs/debuffs. Ailment infliction rate and ailment recovery chance aren't dependant on elemental level anymore.

Luck higher than 40 grants immunity to stun and sleep.

New formulas:
Ailment/Debuff Infliction chance: [(Caster's_Level/4 - Target's_Luck/2)*3 + Base_chance + Ailment_Bonuses + Vulnerability's_25]*Area_multiplier
Ailment Recovery Chance: Luck - Level/2 - Turns*5 + Base_chance

 :VenusDjinni: Djinn & Summons: Summon rushing isn't possible anymore, summons have been rebalanced. Most Djinn have improved, the strongest ones were nerfed. Djinn grant less HP. Chill and Mud's encounters swapped.
Summons' HP% Damage nerfed from 3% per Djinn to 2% per Djinn (Daedalus: 5% the first attack and 10% the missile instead).

Summons Base power is 35-70-130-220 for the standard 4, Zagan 60, Megaera 65, Flora 120, Moloch 125, Ulysses 210, Eclipse 310, Haures 320, Coatlicue 400, Dedalus 140+340, Azul 500, Catastrophe 520, Charon 580, Iris 750.

Summons that require more than 2 djinn won't appear right at the start of a battle. After the first turn, 3-djinn summons become available; after the second, 4-djinn summons become available and so on, with Iris available after the 5th turn has passed (6 and 7 djinn summons are unlocked in the same turn).

Catastrophe requires 7 djinn to be summoned (5 Ju, 2 Me), Charon 8 (6 Ve, 2 Ju) and Iris 10 (6 Ma, 4 Me).

HP gained from Djinn more or less halved.

Reflux is multi-target. Shade and Flash reduce damage respectively by 50% and 66% instead of 60% and 90%. Vine, Mud, Gasp and Fury deal base damage. Ember restores 10% of PP, Ether 35% and Aroma 12,5%. Balm and Spark revive to 50% HP instead of 60%. Crystal heals 60% of HP.

 :Alex: Enemies: Stronger in general. New enemies and new enemy abilities added. Full overhaul in TLA, with more enemies per battle on average.
Every enemy has higher stats and those that uses psynergy have maxPP equal to their levelx5 (if it isn't already higher) so they can benefit from the PP Multiplier. For some enemies (especially in TLA), the element they're weak to got changed.

In TLA enemies and enemy groups have been completely revamped from start to end.

For some enemies (especially in TLA), the element they're weak to got changed.

Treasure Isle overworld area now has enemies from the Eastern Sea lands. The Northern Reaches overworld area has a completely new set of enemies.

Enemies use Break less frequently.

 :Sell: Drops: Notable drops that changed from the original version. Forgeable materials are dropped earlier. Remember to follow the RNG guide doc linked at the top instead of simply reusing move sequences tested for vanilla.
Sea Dragon (Lv 24)       -> Tear Stone         1/64
Mad Plant (Lv 25)        -> Herbed Shirt       1/1
Living Armor (Lv 25)     -> Star Dust          1/64
Cerberus (Lv 26)         -> Virtuous Armlet*   1/64
Harridan (Lv 27)         -> Sylph Feather*     1/64
Chimera Mage (Lv 27)     -> Crystal Rod*       1/128
Magicore (Lv 28)         -> Mystery Gloves*    1/128

Turtle Dragon (Lv 28)    -> Storm Gear         1/128
Slayer (Lv 29)           -> Lucky Medal        1/64
Wyvern (Lv 31)           -> Dragon Scales      1/128
Blue Dragon (Lv 32)      -> Dragon Skin        1/64
Ghost Soldier (Lv 32)    -> Gloria Helm        1/64
Grand Golem (Lv 32)      -> Golem Core*        1/128
Wise Gryphon (Lv 33)     -> Aeolian Cassock    1/128
Hell Chimera (Lv 33)     -> Knight's Greaves   1/128

Mini Death (Lv 34)       -> Salamander Tail    1/64
Minos Warrior (Lv 35)    -> Casual Shirt       1/128
Devil Frog (Lv 35)       -> Divine Camisole    1/128
Aka Manah (Lv 35)        -> Ninja Sandals      1/128

Gillman Lord (Lv 36)     -> Caladbolg          1/256
Ocean Dragon (Lv 36)     -> Clotho's Distaff   1/256
Pyrodra (Lv 36)          -> Triton Ward        1/128
Puppet Warrior (Lv 36)   -> Silver Greaves     1/128
Nue (Lv 37)              -> Alecto's Mace      1/128
Bane Wight (Lv 38)       -> Dark Robe          1/256
Mad Demon (Lv 40)        -> Ker's Weight       1/256
Aeshma (Lv 40)           -> Lachesis' Rule     1/256
Spirit Army (Lv 40)      -> Selene's Bracelet  1/256

Balrog                   -> Sol Ring           1/1
Sentinel                 -> Luna Ring          1/1
Star Magician            -> Iridial Ring       1/1
Dullahan                 -> Mind Ribbon        1/1

*TLA Only. Also Earth Golems don't drop Giant Axe anymore in TLA.

 :Artifact:  Treasures & Shops: Items swapped for various reasons and notable shop changes (TLA Only)
Kibombo
  Shop sells Staff of Anubis

Western Sea
  Rusty Mace (Hagbone Mace) -> Tear Stone

Champa
  Shop sells Cocktail Dress

Izumo
  Shop sells Grievous Mace, Assassin Blade
  
Taopo Swamp
  Tear Stone -> Star Dust

Aqua Rock
  Tear Stone -> Star Dust
  
Ankhol Ruins
  Thanatos Mace -> Tartarus Axe
  
Lemuria
  Rusty Sword (Corsair's Edge) -> Rusty Sword (Pirate's Sabre)
  Star Dust -> Sylph Feather

Eastern Sea
  Rusty Sword (Pirate's Sabre) -> 500 Coins

Gondowan Settlement
  Sylph Feather -> Dragon Skin

Shaman Village
  Shop sells Zodiac Wand
 
Contigo
  Orihalcon -> Mythril (Hammet reward)
  Bramble Seed -> Golem Core
  Shop sells Kikuichimonji
  
Jupiter Lighthouse
  Phaeton Blade -> Sidereal Edge

Loho
  Golem Core -> Mythril
  
Prox
  Dark Matter -> Mythril
  Shop sells Viking Axe
  
Trial Road
  Elixir -> Hagbone Mace

Treasure Isle
  Rusty Axe (Viking Axe) -> Thanatos Mace
  Star Dust -> Dragon Skin
  Firebrand -> Dark Matter
  
Yampi Desert Cave
  Myhtril -> Dark Matter
  Dark Matter -> Firebrand

Anemos Sanctum
  Dragon Skin -> Golem Core (before Teleport)
  Orihalcon -> Phaeton Blade

 :link:  Download Links:
Patch for Golden Sun: The Broken Seal: HERE (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=86)
Patch for Golden Sun: The Lost Age: HERE (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=87)


Title: Re: [SOON] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: javi3 on December 26, 2016, 04:34:42 PM
muchas gracias! con ganas de esta actualización. feliz navidad!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on December 26, 2016, 06:34:58 PM
First release of Golden Sun Reloaded IS UP!

Merry Christmas everyone!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on December 27, 2016, 06:14:00 AM
For the love of god, make a changelog. I know that like, everything is changed, but, I also have no real way of making sure that everything is changed the way you want it to be changed.

Like the time Sheba's psynergy hit for summon power. Or resistance power text changes. Or free high levels drops on birds.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on December 27, 2016, 12:12:24 PM
Oops forgot to link it.

THIS (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2612.msg45848#msg45848) is the most detailed list of changes from The Balance Age. It's a bit outdated though, so you have to include:

  • Light Blades boost Defense
  • Treasure rearrangement in TLA
  • Enemy changes in TLA

Sadly i don't think i kept a detailed list of treasures rearranged, but the "Equipment's Golden Rule" is enough to tell if something isn't where it should be.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on January 01, 2017, 10:43:38 PM
Lemme know whenever you've put out a version you think it's worth doing a full playtest of.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 02, 2017, 12:50:06 AM
This one. Technically all that's left to do is to remove the RNG factor from leveling. Aside from that and bugfixes I can't really see myself making further improvements to this mod after 2 years

Also, happy new year :D


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on January 02, 2017, 04:23:44 AM
Alright, that sounds like a green light for me and anyone else who was waiting to do a full feedback run-through. Look for the beginning of it in the next week or two, no promises.

If it's anything like the playthrough I did forever ago, expect complaints about sheba having the durability of wet napkins and djinn battles directly assaulting the well-being of the player with their difficulty and damage.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 02, 2017, 01:28:54 PM
I haven't tested anything myself but my opinion is that both issues are related only to the earliest part of the game... i'd say till level 10 at most. After that point you have already enough versatility to face almost anything that comes at you.

About Sheba, i don't remember when you did your last playthrough but since TBA's v1.34 she has the best "Magic Resistance" stat in her base class, reducing all base damage taken by 15%.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: dive_darkness on January 05, 2017, 01:02:50 PM
I don't know if I'll play your hack. I'm getting tired of playing GS. I cleared the games a good 15 times now. Did you correct the Caladbolg ? I remember that it was a pretty bad weapon in Balance Age compared to when you could find it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 06, 2017, 03:54:55 PM
@Caladbolg: I remember you telling me about it and i remember making some changes but not the details: it's been 6 months after all.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Seestern on January 08, 2017, 09:14:15 AM
Im currently playing the updated mod and enjoy  it so far :)
Just got access to the ship and my first destination in the eastern sea is yallam.
The most notable experiences so far for me:
- the beginning of Osenia was hard. fast and hard hitting enemy encounters on the overwold and yampi desert were a little nightmarish to deal with. Even Felix just  barely survived 2 attacks. My paranoia to encounter 3 Emus was real xD
- the Kibombo mountains were intereting as i was not used to seeing  the pixie survive a turn of multitargeted psyenergy. There was always a chance to get wiped out because of the sleep spell(pixies)and sleep bomb(assasins) and not beeing able to deal with more than 1 pixie in a turn was problematic as i did not have mutltitarget healing availible yet and their multitarget psynergy drained more health than I can heal which woulldnt be such a problem if they didnt have resist. Oh boy the encounter with 3 pixies...
-The Gabomba Statue was less problematic  now that  I have a full party, but to be fair I didnt encouter a group with more than 1 demon
- love that the staff of anubis is now purchable in the shops in Kibombo
- now in Yallam with a full lvl 20 party and ready to explore the swamps, foolish enough to believe that the swamps were the easiest part of the eastern sea... and my first encounter after leaving Yallam was this group of enemys:
Gillmann
Nightmare
Sea turtle
Well wasnt expecting that! XD


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 09, 2017, 01:22:34 PM
Glad you're enjoying it!

Also thanks a lot for your feedback, it will be useful for when i'll be doing my own playthrough. ;)



Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Seestern on January 10, 2017, 08:40:34 AM
Hmm I have trouble changing in Tri-elemental Classes. Felix with 3 :MarsStar: 3 :JupiterStar: should be a Shinobi right? But he stays as a Ruffian!?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 10, 2017, 03:32:21 PM
You are correct, and I already know why that happens, but sadly I can't work on a fix today. Thanks a lot for reporting and sorry about that, it's due to a very stupid mistake of mine.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 12, 2017, 01:21:17 AM
Class bug fixed, patches have been updated!
Again, sorry for the inconvenient.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Seestern on January 12, 2017, 10:14:13 AM
Thanks for the quick fix!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: javi3 on January 12, 2017, 05:06:58 PM
gracias caledor estoy jugando ahora mismo al 1 , afecta algo este parche?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 12, 2017, 05:16:29 PM
@Seestern: thank you for reporting!
@javi: both games were bugged so yeah, download the new patch, apply it on a clean rom, and keep playing as if nothing happened.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on January 18, 2017, 02:29:58 AM
The first post in a very long journey I'm sure, but I can say that Sol Sanctum proved exactly the amount of challenge it should. I can't tell if I rolled high with the number of enemies I faced, but they're simple and weak monsters, so area psynergy did its job just fine.

This start doesn't tell me anything about the patch but it feels good to be playing again.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 20, 2017, 06:48:14 PM
Glad to hear that :D
I'm looking forward to hear more from you and hopefully i'll be able to start my own playthrough soon too.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on January 22, 2017, 08:46:20 PM
Just picked up Forge. Fine fight, I think: his AoE sticks because you can't AoE heal but it's not overburdening. Stick with your strongest psynergy and Flint -> Venus and it works well.

Bandits were pushovers but that doesn't mean much.

I really want to see how Tret goes. The dungeon plus the Tret fight is definitely the first challenge in GS.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: JustBeKrillin on January 25, 2017, 12:46:49 AM
Thank you for all your hard work, I'll be starting a new play through on both games starting tonight. If I find any bugs I'll report it here.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on January 27, 2017, 01:42:54 AM
Tret and the tree dungeon was a good, good experience. Tough enemies, occasionally a lot of them, good length, good PP requirement, and a nice area right before fighting Tret to get all your PP and health back by running in a circle for 5 minutes.

But what fresh hell are these Oozes before Imil? I was just in a battle against a squad of them for several full minutes because they just keep dividing and you can't kill em all fast enough. It was great.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 27, 2017, 02:50:20 AM
Quote
Thank you for all your hard work, I'll be starting a new play through on both games starting tonight. If I find any bugs I'll report it here.
Thank you very much!

But what fresh hell are these Oozes before Imil? I was just in a battle against a squad of them for several full minutes because they just keep dividing and you can't kill em all fast enough. It was great.
Hmm... I have some doubts about this cause Oozes have only a 1/4 chance to split... regarding their durability, instead: HP are unchanged (and are the lowest for a lv 9 enemy, ~50 less than the bears found in the area); their defense has increased a lot though, cause i wanted the slimes to be very resistant against physical blows, like Final Fantasy's Flans.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on January 29, 2017, 04:20:33 PM
I rolled poorly after attempting to take them out one at a time and a group of 3 became a group of 6 in one turn. After that, it was just a nightmare of killing oozes in between other oozes and AoE psynergy not being able to hit the remaining ones, which would split. I was only level 9 or so at the time myself and finished the Saturos fight with the whole team at 11.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on January 29, 2017, 05:00:00 PM
Then it's fine. You can be punished by a bad roll after failing to take them out, which happened cause you chose the wrong method: physical attacks. It would've been bad if it was a normal occurrence, but since it's non repeatable - cause you've learned from your mistakes - it's good instead. Little surprises like this one, that happen when you lower your guard, make the game more interesting IMO.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Rolina on January 30, 2017, 10:10:13 PM
Sorry I've not been trying this out as I'd like.  Just getting harder and harder to play on the PC, so I'm thinking of getting it for the PSP.  Well, once I get it repaired, and... that other thing.  Modded GS as it's meant to be - portable.  That'll be nice.  It... maybe a few months from now, though.  Hard to afford repairs and pay for college at the same time.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 03, 2017, 03:16:28 AM
Don't worry, obviously i'd like to hear your opinion on the new mod as well (especially after all that "less break more debuff" debate) but real life issues come first. Also, I ain't going anywhere so take your time :D


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 03, 2017, 07:59:42 PM
Alright, I see Poison on Ruffians. Does the poison tick actually do enough damage to be worth using? It deals a percentage of HP damage per tick, right?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 03, 2017, 08:52:37 PM
Correct: poison removes 10% of HP per turn, venom 20% just like on characters. I still consider it one of the least useful status effects, around Delude's power level.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Rolina on February 04, 2017, 12:23:33 AM
You and I have very different views on the strength of those ailments.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: leaf on February 04, 2017, 01:22:26 AM
Well, the strength of poison depends on what you're fighting. Against a boss, poison is ridiculously powerful, capable of shaving off several turns of combat. But it's decent to unnecessary against everything else. It'll tag on some extra damage, but against most enemies, it won't make a difference. Against player characters, poison is very strong.

Delude is just bad all around. Monster skills bypass it, and I think unleashes might too. And of course anything that isn't selected by pressing "attack" bypasses it, as well.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 04, 2017, 08:33:59 AM
Well, the strength of poison depends on what you're fighting. Against a boss, poison is ridiculously powerful, capable of shaving off several turns of combat. But it's decent to unnecessary against everything else. It'll tag on some extra damage, but against most enemies, it won't make a difference. Against player characters, poison is very strong.

This. And since bosses are immune to poison/venom, its usefulness is greatly diminished. Also, Delude in my mod is stronger against the player cause it shuts down unleashes completely.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: dive_darkness on February 04, 2017, 10:00:52 AM
"And since bosses are immune to poison/venom"
Damn, that means i cannot venom deadbeard with the iforgotitsname axe for an "easy" fight...


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 04, 2017, 12:23:36 PM
"And since bosses are immune to poison/venom"
Damn, that means i cannot venom deadbeard with the iforgotitsname axe for an "easy" fight...
Bosses (aka luck > 40) have always been immune to Poison & Venom, (+ Haunt, Death Curse & Death). I only added immunity to sleep and stun as well.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 04, 2017, 01:42:08 PM
Alright, something is wrong with at least a couple moves enemies know. I'm pretty sure I saw earlier in the game that a ghost using Rumble or something similar did no damage and I just watched 2 lizardmen each use Cutting Edge with no effect. It was like they cast the animation aimed at themselves.

Yeah, I doublechecked. They hit themselves with the move for no damage.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 04, 2017, 03:02:11 PM
A fix will be online very soon. In the meantime, i'll leave here a completely unrelated but funny story to entertain you guys while i fix the bug.

There was once a young forgetful man. He knew about this problem of his, so he used to remind himself all the time of things he had to do, like "i have to go buy milk" or "i have to paste animations from the italian rom, cause they don't come together with abilities". Here's the funny part: he remembered to paste animations, but forgot to paste the abilities themselves, leaving the the old ones outdated and new ones blank. Well, not fully blank, since the wonderful animations worked flawlessly... kinda... as the animations didn't know what to hit since the abilities were blank, but that doesn't really matter, does it?

Hope you enjoyed that, see you soon!

EDIT: Fix is UP!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 04, 2017, 03:43:35 PM
I think there may be some text issues too. A Spirit just used ?! which looks like some kind of reverse Rumble.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 04, 2017, 03:52:35 PM
Damn it...  well, i'll check them all later today. Sorry about that.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: dive_darkness on February 04, 2017, 10:29:38 PM
"And since bosses are immune to poison/venom"
Damn, that means i cannot venom deadbeard with the iforgotitsname axe for an "easy" fight...
Bosses (aka luck > 40) have always been immune to Poison & Venom, (+ Haunt, Death Curse & Death). I only added immunity to sleep and stun as well.

Is that so ? Well then forget what i said. My memory must be playing tricks on me, because i remember inflicting toxic on him with the unleash and it did ~300 after each of his hits in my very last playthrough on my cartridge.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 04, 2017, 10:47:37 PM
Ah, no wait a min. Only TLA had immunities, the original GS hadn't and resorted to very high luck to discourage statuses and I ported immunities in TBS for my mods.

Still, i was testing deadbeard specifically, since with is low venus level i thought it might have been possible to bypass his 60 luck wall with a venus status effect from issac in his base class... but the formula gave me a negative chance (=impossible) to apply poison/venom on him.

So... i don't really know. Maybe you remember correctly and there's a mistake with the formula or something else.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: dive_darkness on February 05, 2017, 12:08:07 AM
If i do remember correctly, i think i applied venom using the axe with garet. Garet had the asura armor, spirit gloves (those dropped by manticores), the clerical ring, the thunder crown, the sport shirt, the quick boots, and i think i might have dropped his resistances with djinns before inflicting venom.

All on the french cartridge version.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 05, 2017, 12:16:59 AM
i might have dropped his resistances with djinns before inflicting venom.

It doesn't matter: the formula checks for elemental levels, not resistances. that's why isaac in the base class has the best chances of success.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: dive_darkness on February 05, 2017, 12:20:13 AM
That's good to know.

Well, my mermory was indeed wrong. You cannot venom deadbeard, but you can venom the fusion dragon in the original game. Maybe i just confused the two bosses ? Memory is tricky ><


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 05, 2017, 02:31:57 AM
Actually, while Fusion Dragon has less luck than Deadbeard it also has a higher venus level which compensates perfectly (10 luck or 5 elemental levels have the same "weight"), so formula wise the result is identical: -11% chance for full venus isaac to venom FD or DB.

BTW, the fix for rumble is up.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 05, 2017, 02:28:46 PM
Corona drops your own party's own defense


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 05, 2017, 02:36:07 PM
Fixed. I also checked all djinn for other inconsistencies, and it was the only one.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 05, 2017, 03:05:53 PM
Yeah, no problem. Just throwing em out there as I find em.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 10, 2017, 11:05:25 PM
Alright, I think I'm about to hit that point where dungeon outside of bosses no longer pose any kind of threat. I've got 4 djinn on everyone and am about to set sail on the Karagol. Normally, a soon as you pick up an AoE healing, the game become a total cakewalk, so we'll have to see how it plays out.

I notice your Adept's Clothes don't have an PP regen and I know it's intentional. Breaking my heart, man.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 11, 2017, 12:44:47 AM
Hope I live up to your expectations, tell me about anything you are dissatisfied with.
About Adept Clothes isntead, wasn't it +Max PP instead of regen?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 11, 2017, 03:25:49 AM
About Adept Clothes isntead, wasn't it +Max PP instead of regen?

pretty sure it was regen, but it was originally +MaxPP in vanilla. I remembered incorrectly.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 12, 2017, 07:30:15 PM
Alright, I beat the Kraken. @#$% Break. I know it using Ply Well is a way to make it take off a turn, but it feels like a gut punch when it eliminates a turn and a halfs worth of damage. Forcing me to use psynergy crystals to maintain Mia's healing is okay, I guess, but this thing probably has too much HP.

Either make it less tanky or remove break. The battle needs to be shorter somehow, or drop its damage and give it even more hp.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 12, 2017, 07:47:31 PM
if you have a save from before the battle i can try and let you know my thoughts. sadly the savegame compilation is not reliable anymore for tests due to the changes to stats. Still, if it's really THAT tanky i think the most i'd do is change ply well to ply and/or move break down 1 slot to change its chance to be cast from 18% per turn to 13,3%. It's not much stronger than vanilla, actually it's weaker than (hypothetical) hard mode.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 12, 2017, 09:20:29 PM
It's not that it's tanks, it's that there's kinda no way to fight it other than keeping two people healing and then the attacking people can never get buffs to stick. Honestly, Break is the issue. It invalidates both psynergy buffing and defeats the point of using djinn.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: connoc on February 12, 2017, 11:57:12 PM
I'm new here so, hi...?
Been playing this hack for a while, I enjoy my time with it.

There's a question though, why is Mariner series the only class who can cast Wave? Also, is this spell meant to completely replace Cool? I think I saw several Mercury Djinn and Ghost MageI think, memory's kinda fuzzy able to cast Cool.

Oh yeah, I think I find this too, looks like the stun/paralyze effect animation is off. This was inflicted by Alecto's Mace by the way.
(http://i.imgur.com/BXd3sXz.png)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Rolina on February 13, 2017, 01:54:34 AM
Well, I think you found the real reason bosses were immune to ailments. XD


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 13, 2017, 03:24:46 AM
Oh yeah, I think I find this too, looks like the stun/paralyze effect animation is off. This was inflicted by Alecto's Mace by the way.
(http://i.imgur.com/BXd3sXz.png)

Hi, glad you're enjoying the mod! About your questions...
Quote
why is Mariner series the only class who can cast Wave
Wanted piers to have a water theme since Mia is ice. About other class lines that could potentially have wave, there are 2 conditions to fulfill: they must already have prism (as it would replace that one due to similar power level) and must be a TLA only class line, so restricted to Jenna and Piers (cause i only have the animations for Wave in TLA). only one class line matches those 2 requirements and it's jenna's guru line. I kept prism here to preserve simmetry with mia's guru line.

Quote
Also, is this spell meant to completely replace Cool?
Yup. Since i have a limited amount of icons available, cool's icons were used for wave's, leaving the former without icons, which leads to...

Quote
I saw several Mercury Djinn and Ghost MageI think, memory's kinda fuzzy able to cast Cool
... me not wanting to lose that psynergy line entirely, so it now belongs to the enemies, since it doesn't matter if their spells have icons or not.
Quote
Oh yeah, I think I find this too, looks like the stun/paralyze effect animation is off. This was inflicted by Alecto's Mace by the way.
That's totally not supposed to happen cause DD should be immune to stun, so i'll have to investigate. Thanks for reporting!

About the graphical issue, my first guess is that since DD's sprite is actually a merge of 2 sprites (left and right half) the stun effect just centered on one of the 2. Other "split" bosses are Poseidon, Kraken, Orochi and Fusion Dragon so the same issue should happen for them too if i'm right. They're still all supposed to be immune to it though.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: leaf on February 13, 2017, 08:38:18 AM
Quote
About the graphical issue, my first guess is that since DD's sprite is actually a merge of 2 sprites (left and right half) the stun effect just centered on one of the 2. Other "split" bosses are Poseidon, Kraken, Orochi and Fusion Dragon so the same issue should happen for them too if i'm right. They're still all supposed to be immune to it though.
Kraken can be statused; it's notorious for being one of the only bosses in GS1 that status effects actually work against. And I believe stun is among them.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: connoc on February 13, 2017, 10:30:53 AM
I guess I'm lucky with the DD thing? lol

Speaking of Alecto's Mace, I sold two of them but not a single one appeared in Artifacts section even though the shop clerk said "Wow! It's a Rare Stuff!". I tried this again on the third one (the one equipped on Isaac) and the same thing happened. 

A pity with the wave thing though, since I like the animation. I was thinking Piers' Seafarer class should have one considering him being, you know, seafarer and all, but I don't really mind all


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 13, 2017, 02:15:11 PM
Kraken can be statused; it's notorious for being one of the only bosses in GS1 that status effects actually work against. And I believe stun is among them.
Maybe in the vanilla game but with my mod Luck > 40 means immunity.

Quote
Speaking of Alecto's Mace, I sold two of them but not a single one appeared in Artifacts section even though the shop clerk...
I've already found and fixed this so hold on your Alectos' till next release. Thanks again!

Quote
I was thinking Piers' Seafarer class should have one...
The issue here is power. In my class design Warrior-like classes (strong attack & HP low PP) have a power cap on base power psynergies that is either 120 or 150. The only exceptions to this are mono elemental classes.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 14, 2017, 01:05:51 AM
Uploaded hf2 for TLA which fixes the Alecto's Mace bug: it can now be bought again if sold.

About the other bug (stunning bosses) i tested and didn't find anything wrong with it.
So please connoc, update your rom and tell me if it happens again.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: connoc on February 14, 2017, 12:21:15 PM
The selling bug is fixed now, thanks!
I'll give you another report on Alecto's Mace stunning DD later
Update: No stunned DD seen. Will try with Star Magician and Dullahan but these two will take time.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 14, 2017, 02:16:41 PM
The Succubus - 2x Big Bear Enemy fight in Crossbone is fantastic, btw. Finally, Dull gets some value. Look to incorporate that idea again somewhere.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 14, 2017, 07:19:43 PM
Same with the fight immediately after; the ghouls and the ghost mage thing. Them being susceptible to both poison and haunt made that fight winnable due to the DoT. Great boss fight.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: pachichi on February 16, 2017, 05:07:40 AM
hi, first of all thx
second, why did you delete the 3rd psynergy for some of the 3 elemental classes? for example mia had gaia/prism/whirlwind series b4 as an elementalist, now its only got gaia/prism series
sry english
thx :)
pls put back XD


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 16, 2017, 02:37:10 PM
Same thing for the Griffins. Poison and grind it out with double healing and Dull. I think this is fine and works well. I'm a fan.

The Grphyons may be a bit too strong though. The odds of making it out of the very first turn without one of them using twin beaks to one shot someone at level 19 can't be high. Perhaps tuning their attack down a touch. The AoE psynergy is fine, but twin beaks is a bit much.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 16, 2017, 06:38:01 PM
@pachichi: Design choice. Many things changed between Balance Age and Reloaded and one of them was the Worldwaker class, one of the few i never really liked in its first iterations. Now it finally found its place as the formerly non-existant venus-oriented caster for Mia&co with Cure (which received a huge boost in power between the 2 mods) and Gaia. If you're missing whirlwind both the Divine Mage is crazy good with Jupiter, while the Wild Mage and White Mage have Plasma despite specializing in Mars and Mercury respectively. Honestly, a 4th (out of 4) classes capable of jupiter offense was unneeded.

@Varden: Glad you're liking them, I knew it was a going to be good place to go wild with ailments, since they are strong fixed encounters but they don't count as bosses. About gryphons... I need a saveeeeee. I can't do any testing on my own anymore and I ain't gonna do an half assed job with them cause it's easier to make things worse than fix it.

Edit: Added as personal text right below my profile picture.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 16, 2017, 07:46:34 PM
I can assure you that I definitely have saved since then and at 14 hours in, is no small feat to get back to the same spot. Give me maybe a week and a way you recommend I give the .sav files and I'll give you ones for every major encounter.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: connoc on February 17, 2017, 02:43:42 PM
What kind of save do you need? I mean, the one with access to every place/encounter in the game?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 17, 2017, 04:22:29 PM
@Cal: it also makes no sense that the Assassin Blade is a better weapon than the Mystery Blade, considering that the Mystery Blade is basically a treasure in an optional dungeon that you shouldn't even be at yet and you'd have to work pretty hard to NOT get the Assassin Blade, given how the Tolbi Spring works.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 17, 2017, 11:03:59 PM
@saves: my request is based on the assumption that anyone saves before fixed battles like djinn or bosses. And during that battle you know immediately if you see that something's wrong and you'd like to report it to me.

When that happens all you need to do is to remember to minimize your gba window and make a backup of your battery (.sav) file.

If you forget to save before even saving immediately after is good enough, cause i think i can just replace a random encounter anywhere on the map with the encounter you reported and test it. I just need your save for the stats/equipment setup.
If both don't happen, well, it just means that i'll look into that battle when i get there myself (unless it's terribly broken, in that case my compilation with older saves is enough), cause i really don't wanna anyone to go back in the game for the sole purpose of grabbing a save. playing through the game once more is supposed to be fun, not to feel like a chore, and i'm already grateful that you guys report your finds here.

As for how... for a single save file an attachment to the post is the best way. for 2 or more i'd say just .zip/.rar them and upload it anywhere you're comfortable with (if the rar is small enough the post here is still an option).

@Mistery/Assassin Blade. Considered doing that at least a thousand times. Don't remember why i ultimately settled on the assassin for the stronger one but i know it was really a close call so i could easily reconsider and switch their stats.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 18, 2017, 04:43:00 AM
In that situation, it sounds like making them equal would be okay as well, considering they're kind of thematic opposites anyways. One grants health to the wielder while the other ends the life of the opponent. or maybe equal attack and one prioritizing defense while the other, agility.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Rolina on February 20, 2017, 01:16:40 AM
@Cal: it also makes no sense that the Assassin Blade is a better weapon than the Mystery Blade, considering that the Mystery Blade is basically a treasure in an optional dungeon that you shouldn't even be at yet and you'd have to work pretty hard to NOT get the Assassin Blade, given how the Tolbi Spring works.
Mystery Blade can be gotten before Assassin Blade.  That's why assassin blade was stronger.  I think the bigger problem is that because you can get multiple assassin blades, it renders the mystery blade moot since you'll rarely get a chance to use it - similar to a lot of the forged/rusted weapons worked in TLA.  I think making them equal in power and thematically opposed in how they work as you suggested would be a good way to handle implementation - good idea.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 20, 2017, 02:05:10 AM
you can get multiple assassin blades
Point well taken


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 20, 2017, 12:17:42 PM
I think that the unleash for the Frost Wand, Frostbite, is overtuned. I'm not at my computer, so I can't check it in the editor, but I'm pretty sure Mia is doing way too much damage with the unleash.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 20, 2017, 12:27:11 PM
Please give more info: damage done, Mia's elemental power, max pp, enemy and damage done against the same enemy with a random offensive mercury psynergy.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 20, 2017, 12:32:57 PM
Maybe I need to do more testing, but she seemed to randomly pop out 200+ damage on the unleash. It might have just been against weaker enemies or ones weak to Mercury.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 20, 2017, 12:49:41 PM
200 is not impossible but definitively really high, cause the gap in mercury pow/res difference between her and her target must be in the 130-150 range.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 21, 2017, 04:03:43 PM
Toadonpa is good, btw. Manages to consistently poison the majority of my team over the course of a fight. I'm sort of afraid that people who aren't dedicated to let Garet cast Protect very, very often with get steamrolled from the constant defense lowering.

The Jupiter Djinn in Babi Lighthouse needs more powerful psynergy. Wind Slash and Blue Bolt are just not scary at this point in the game. Maybe it's packing 3rd level Plasma or Thunderhead and I got lucky, but it was a pushover.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 22, 2017, 08:43:39 PM
Wow, Deadbeard. There's an off-chance that a Dull doesn't stick, Beardy gets an Impact off, and then double Sweeps your team. I actually don't know if I had access to Break at level 27, I'd have to check on the editor.

But, yeah, Deadbeard is really, really, really hard, but fair, I suppose. It's a heavyweight fight. I've got a save for before him that I'll post later. I'm getting to the point where I'm afraid that you can never afford to ever summon ever because you can't take the loss of stats and summons don't have enough pop considering you're taking 7 turns off to unleash, summon, and recover 4 djinn. So, I dunno, but buffing Isaac and having him beat Deadbeard by smacking him with the Gaia Blade doesn't feel much different than the old Sol Blade beatdowns you worked so hard to invalidate. Psynergy still doesn't do that much damage if you're in multi-elemental classes, so, personally, I'd up the multiplier with MaxPP. Also, holy moley, when do you get access to second level of Punishment?

Was it a better experience than vanilla? Yeah.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 23, 2017, 02:02:48 PM
@Babi's Jupiter Djinni: my bad. My indexes for pasting from the italian rom were off by 1 enemy and since that djinn was the very last enemy he wasn't updated. Mine still has wind slash but blue bolt is replaced by shine plasma and has ~300 more hp and 20 more defense. It also has tornado and sonic slash though.

@Retribution: learnt at level 29, but boasts 135 power. For reference, Serpent Fume (power 130) is learnt at 28, while Sonic Slash (power 120 but 5 targets) at 30. I'm getting that quite often though so I might reduce that power a bit to lower the level requirement as well (on average: 10 power = 3 levels).

@Break: you do. The earliest break is learned is at 26 by the Armed class series. IIRC i lowered this value in one of the latest Balance Age releases especially for deadbeard.

@Deadbeard and summoning:
A few reminders. the time to recover from a summon is tied to class setup, so it's completely up to the player. Base class setup grants the highest power but also the longest recovery time, while double and triple class setup halve the recovery time for example.
About psynergy... the issue might be related to deadbeard "typing". His lower resistances are to Venus and Mars and in GS you just lack the power boosting equipment AND the psynergies to make efficient casters for those 2 elements. I will gladly test that save one of these days though.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 23, 2017, 04:19:42 PM
All good points. It's tough to see Retribution just barely out of level reach, but I've also played the game a billion times so there's no much screwing around to pick up extra xp. For Babi's djinn: no big, that's just bug fixing.

About Break, I hadn't thought to look at that particular set-up (that's Garet dual-ele with Mercury) because Mercury djinn are at such a premium for access to a second Wish for Ivan for healing at the very start of a turn. And you really, really need access to that second wish. I know that you can pull Wish on Isaac and Garet, but their tiny PP pools and incredible Attack makes sticking them on healing duty very, very sub-optimal. I'm sure there's other classes that get it, I just didn't find it. No big deal.

Psynergy power specifically: I didn't mean against Deadbeard. I think by the end of the game that it was so much easier to roll with having Ivan attack every turn and focus Ivan, Isaac, and Garet on a single enemy with attacks and pray for unleashes to try and eliminate one enemy then another in short order. I'm almost positive that (and you can check on that save file) Ivan does more damage with one unleash from either the Zodiac Wand or Crystal Rod than with two casts of his strongest psynergy when he's at 27 or 28. I'll have to run it a couple times with base classes to get higher elememtal power.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 25, 2017, 12:34:23 AM
Just beat Dullahan with your save without changing anything in your setup.

The double healer team is so resilient I could easily spam djinn and summon during the whole battle (i think the highest i've had on standby was 5 or 6, with an average of 2) and even finish him off with judgement (didn't count damage, i just though it was about time and i managed to stabilize at that point). The hardest part was when mia run out of pp (seriously pal, you've gotta spread healing items more). Always have some kind of buff active (especially resistance) but don't get to greedy with them, cause that's where Break hurts badly.

Oh, and remember that single target debuff are stronger but also have a lower chance to hit. If dull wasn't working, you should've switched to Blunt ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 25, 2017, 02:53:21 PM
I totally misunderstood the relationship between the debuffs and AoE then. I thought the single target would be more likely to hit. That makes sense though, because it's tuned explicitly for bosses and really hasn't much use in general PvE. Consistently being able to get his attack lowered would neuter Deadbeard completely.

As for Double Wish being resilient, hell yeah it is. I needed to survive to 300+ damage Sweeps if Deadbeard buffed himself and mine didn't stick, one after Ivan used it and then Mia. I guess my setup was far from perfect.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Rolina on February 25, 2017, 07:07:31 PM
@Retribution: learnt at level 29, but boasts 135 power. For reference, Serpent Fume (power 130) is learnt at 28, while Sonic Slash (power 120 but 5 targets) at 30. I'm getting that quite often though so I might reduce that power a bit to lower the level requirement as well (on average: 10 power = 3 levels).
You could always consider making it a 3-tier spell like Fume, or having it work in an upgrade path akin to spells like Ragnarok → Odyssey.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 25, 2017, 07:32:52 PM
You could always consider making it a 3-tier spell like Fume, or having it work in an upgrade path akin to spells like Ragnarok → Odyssey.
It already is. Retribution is the second tier of the Punishment series, which is basically a slightly stronger Jupiter fume (third stage is Scrouge).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 26, 2017, 04:53:06 AM
Yeah, there's really just not enough game in either of the Golden Suns to take advantage of the highest level Psynergy. The level cap easily could have been 50 and balanced accordingly.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 26, 2017, 10:44:46 PM
Alright, Saturos, Menardi, and Fusion Dragon have all fallen. Fusion Dragon's constant poisoning and haunting of whoever had the cursed gear and Angel's Ring was an annoyance, but he's far less than Deadbeard was. Saturos and Menardi was a good fight too; as long as Death Seize manages to hit a few times and makes you stabilize.

I guess it's on to TLA now. Cal, I assume you're going to be doing your own runthrough of TBS, so I guess I'll go ahead and continue documenting bug reports and leave my thoughts on the second game in the series as I play through it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 27, 2017, 01:40:18 AM
Alright, Saturos, Menardi, and Fusion Dragon have all fallen. Fusion Dragon's constant poisoning and haunting of whoever had the cursed gear and Angel's Ring was an annoyance, but he's far less than Deadbeard was. Saturos and Menardi was a good fight too; as long as Death Seize manages to hit a few times and makes you stabilize.

I guess it's on to TLA now. Cal, I assume you're going to be doing your own runthrough of TBS, so I guess I'll go ahead and continue documenting bug reports and leave my thoughts on the second game in the series as I play through it.

Everything here sounds just perfect to me. Especially cause TLA is where the real fun begins: new items, new enemies, rearranged treasures, new spells...


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on February 28, 2017, 03:09:14 AM
Hmm, I haven't run into it yet (honestly, not out of the prologue yet) but I was wondering what you thought about your ability to have a party full of healers as soon as you get the first two Djinn in TLA? Assuming Felix's Swordsman class hasn't been tampered with, you're fully capable of making healing kind of a non-factor in terms of in-dungeon PP usage.

Do you think doing something like pushing healing off of the first level classes for Jenna or Felix would fix this or do you see it as not a problem?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on February 28, 2017, 10:56:47 AM
Honestly, I don't think I've ever seriously thought about it, but I can see your point.
It IS a problem for overall balance (albeit a minor one), but I also think that making an exception to class builds to address this 6-level issue (by comparison, Mia joins at 10 in GS and you start at 4 in TLA) is overdoing it: after level 10 you'd be losing a healing spell line after djinn unleashes/summon/djinn storm for no apparent reason.

The perfect solution would be altering djinn spread in the early game, to push back that single mercury djinn.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on March 01, 2017, 10:23:34 PM
Alright, Dekhan Plateau Mars Djinn wrecks things. Starburst 2hkos the entire team and you can't counter it. I think Fire is fine, but Starburst wrecks.

Save posted


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on March 02, 2017, 12:21:19 AM
Tested, and it's actually fine. this one's the mars equivalent of the Tret Tree Jupiter Djinn. Same level, same number of team members, better equipment in GS, djinn slightly weaker in TLA to compensate. In fact, Breeze has more HP AND Plasma, which is stronger than starburst (also Flare is weaker than Whirlwind).

Thanks anyway!

PS: Chance for double starburst is 8,8%.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on March 02, 2017, 01:53:07 AM
I am running quite a streak of pulling the combination that just eats your team for djinn (that I inevitably complain about here). Don't worry about it too much, though.

I'll keep posting saves and whatnot in the future.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on March 02, 2017, 02:22:11 AM
Nono, you're the one who shouldn't worry about what (or not) to report. By all means, post here every little bit that "disappoints" you. Dekhan's Djinn is barely safe and strongly backed up by another djinn in TBS, but he's the exception. You never know where i might feel "this is a bit too much". ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on March 02, 2017, 08:46:01 PM
Alright, since I posted the Dekhan one and you can walk, I'm not posting a save but, I really really don't know about this Venus djinn outside Madra. This guy REALLY hurts.

Assuming you're not hunting for him specifically abusing the fact that hard resets give you a free first turn, Thorn and Gaia just crushed my team. I don't know what the odds are to get him to roll Spire multiple times, but if you cant pull that outcome, it's likely that someone will die unless you're running double or triple healing, which is just stalling until you get a spire in my opinion, plus he seems to run away quite often. I need to look specifically at how much HP this thing has, because I think it living too many turns is the issue.

Maybe I should be running double healing at this juncture, but man, does that djinn hurt.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on March 03, 2017, 06:03:42 PM
This is quite strange. The Venus Djinn outside madra has ~60 more HP than Dekhan's (but you should have gained 1 level since that fight), replaces flare for Spire and 1 starburst for Punji (45 power so stronger). Apart from this, the core of their moves is identical: Thorn and Gaia are just element swaps of Fire & Starburst so, if anything, the problem should be Spire since that's where the power gap is... or to a lesser extent, punji.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on March 06, 2017, 03:57:05 AM
Does Sour not drop resistance unconditionally anymore? Or is it subject to luck and ele. power calculations?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on March 06, 2017, 08:50:42 AM
Sour's effect was the same as weaken's before so it's always been subject to luck and ele level difference.

Remember that now defender's luck and attacker's level are the only stats that affect the chance to inflict debuffs/ailments


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on March 06, 2017, 01:33:24 PM
Hmm, alright.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on March 18, 2017, 02:48:56 AM
Hey, could you take a look at Haunting that the Doomsayers use? On one use it did 250 damage to Piers, while a later use in the same battle only did about 80.

I'm wondering if maybe there are two separate instances of Haunting with different base power that just happen to be in its moveset?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on March 18, 2017, 11:27:15 AM
That should be the case but Doomsayer has only 1 instance of haunting with BP 70. I also tested it briefly and nothing strange happened, so without further proof I can't do much about this one.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on April 03, 2017, 01:21:56 AM
Alright, look like the site is back up.

Okay, so, I can't tell if it's just my ROM, just my emulator, or what, but as you can see in the pics, something is broken with weapon unleashes. It seems to affect every weapon, but only some of the time. I've repatched and the same problems occur. Additionally, it seems Wheeze also suffers from an issue where it alternates between showing the animation correctly and using the standard critical attack animation (where it zooms in on the person attacking).

Also, consistently and independent of region, but as soon as i get off the boat to start walking around on land, there's a decent shot of running into an enemy party that is always, 100% of the time Gillman-Turtle Dragon-Nightmare in that order. And they will crush you into the dirt if you see them when you're early levelled after just getting Piers. First thing i Did was try to go to Taopo Swamp, and leaving north of Yallam dropped that party on my head.

There's Fire Worms in Gaia Rock which are screwing with the level progression and difficulty since they seems to swarm everywhere, give twice as much XP as a Cerberus and 4 times that of an Undead, almost 3 times a Wood Walker, Angle Spike deals 220+ damage consistently on characters with 280 min and 410 max, and on and on. I swear I gained 5 levels from that dungeon alone and am sitting at 28-28-27-27 before doing the Ankhol Ruins, the Briggs event, Treasure Island, really anything. If you were pushing for one dungeon to give xp by the truckload, you've got one.

You might want to tone down some of the monsters in Tundaria. They're basically pushing 1/2 to 2/3 of any characters hp, appear in groups almost always, and will guaranteed be faster than you. There's a difference between difficult and overbearing. Getting 2 shot before anyone on the team can act and/or cycling Shade pretty much constantly is pushing into micromanaging territory.

Lastly is an overall feel I'm getting as i progress through the actually rather linear Eastern Sea: I get better and better items, specifically weapons and armor, but enemies are not taking any more damage from me as i progress to new dungeons than old enemies were in old dungeons. At the heart of RPG progression is seeing the numbers of damage you can output increase with better equipment and using enemy HP to temper your gains by letting you do more actual damage, but do less as a percentage of total HP. IE, if I'm level 30 in a level 30 dungeon, let me do a basic attack that deals 150 on an enemy that has 1500 hp. In a level 20 dungeon, let me do 100 damage on an enemy with 800 HP. And so on. Scaling defense gain harder than scaling HP gain for enemies is turning this into a wearying experience because i just don't seem to be doing more damage. I already know that basic attacks aren't ideal, but make my equipment upgrades mean something beyond scaling for djinn attacks.

And find ways to make mountain Waters either drop more often of be buyable in stores. Need that since healing is so expensive.

My most recent explicit save point in the past is Gondowan Cliffs. I can link that if you'd like, but I'm well beyond that point now.

I can give feedback on anything specifically you'd like, just let me know.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on April 03, 2017, 05:30:25 AM
Ok let's go by order. From what I can see there are at least 3 separate issues: weapon unleashes, enemy groups misplaced (Fire Worm, the turtle dragon monster trio) and enemy in the right place but too strong (Tundaria).

The second one is easy... the enemy group table is messed up. I don't know why cause i'm positive i pasted that one correctly, but it's an easy fix: I just have to paste it again.

About the first one, please upload your current save and give me a list of weapons that gave you that issue. By memory is enough, it doesn't need to be inclusive: i just want a small group of weapon to test with higher priority.

About the third one, I fully agree with you about on enemy strength so i guess it's about time i start my own playtrough and see for myself, lol. Could you please upload your endgame TBS save so I can use it to start directly with TLA?

Also, what were your leves while progressing through the Eastern Sea? It's really important cause that's where i started messing heavily with exp. I planned for 18~20 to 28 from start to end (Lemuria). Other checkpoints are 22~23 for entering Aqua Rock, 24~25 for entering Gaia Rock, then +1 each for Izumo Ruins and Tundaria.

I'll give more details as i dig deeper into those issues but for starters i really need those 2 saves.

Thanks a lot for reporting as always!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on April 03, 2017, 02:59:29 PM
Alright, away from computer now, and I can't find a way to move files via my phone file structure to attach. I'll get a save at Sea of Time Islet cave, one at Gondowan Cliffs without Piers (that's the most recent older save that I have, quite a bit behind current), and the Broken Seal endgame file.

For weapon unleashes that I know have this issue: the Cloud Wand, Staff of Anubis (obviously), and the Robber's Blade. Also, the Djinn Char seems to have the same issue with that spiked damage (Felix pushing 400+ unbuffed randomly) and Wheeze has the animation problem I mentioned earlier.

When I get the chance, I'll probably head back to Dalia and test unleash damage for the weapons tiny monsters.

For levels, I can guess I was at about 23/24 before doing Gaia Rock and at 27/28 afterwards. My order of dungeons was [Boat/Gabomba/Aqua Rock/Tundaria/Gaia Rock/Treasure Island (for a short bit since it's Grind-locked)/Avimander]. Currently have 6 djinn apiece and am headed to Ankohl.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on April 04, 2017, 04:22:07 AM
Here you go with those save files.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on April 04, 2017, 10:34:24 AM
Thanks a lot, i'll let know here how it goes as i make progress with the fixes


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on April 04, 2017, 03:06:54 PM
I have a feeling that the Fire Worms have upset the level curve rather severely.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on April 04, 2017, 03:55:50 PM
I have a feeling that the Fire Worms have upset the level curve rather severely.
Cause they're shouldn't be there. Fire worms are level 32 enemies, you're supposed to meet them for the first time in Magma Rock

EDIT: BTW the order for eastern sea enemy level wise is Gabomba, Taopo, Aqua, Gaia, Ankhol, Tundaria, Avimander, (Lemuria), Treasure.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: VardenSalad on April 04, 2017, 05:34:28 PM
Hmm, I'll have to remember that ordering, because I normally run Aqua to Tundaria (after Gabomba and Taopo) just to get mileage out of Parch immediately as well as start the trading sidequest. It ultimately doesn't matter too much as long as the level swings aren't radically higher.

Let me know when you get a save file immediately after you beat the Hydra on Piers' ship. I'll run the Eastern Sea again (starting with taking the boat back to do Gabomba Catacombs).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded β
Post by: Caledor on April 05, 2017, 04:19:08 PM
The ordering isn't strict. I just told you cause if you go straight to tundaria after aqua rock i might easily dismiss "enemies are too strong" comments cause you're underleveled.

About the issues:

I brutally pasted all the groups from my (Italian) rom once again and they appear to be fixed now.

It seems i can't to replicate the visual unleash bug nor the spike damage displayed in your screenshot. How often did those bugs happen to you? 1:3? 1:10? 1:20? To know if I should try more or dismiss it for now. Ditto for wheeze and char.

I'll be uploading a hotfix in minutes to you can immediately play an improved game. If any of those issues persist it might be the rom's fault, so upload the patched rom somewhere and send me the link to my email address

Edit: Fix is up


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 13, 2017, 09:39:58 AM
On my 600th post, Golden Sun Reloaded loses its Beta status!

With the latest patch, leveling isn't dependent on RNG anymore and will always reach the goal stats shown in the editor at levels 19, 39, 59... etc.

This will happen only in a new game though, on a game started on the Beta version level up will be fixed from the patch onwards, but it won't fix the RNG based levels you've already gained.

Credit for the new level up formula goes to leaf, full discussion is here (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2796.msg46974).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on April 14, 2017, 10:19:36 AM
Oh, nice.  Good to see that it can't be abused anymore - I normally don't really have a problem with the way it's normally done, but when you add the luck stat this is kinda important to not break the game.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on April 18, 2017, 07:45:46 PM
Hello!

I am keeping track of this hack since the previous thread ended and now I am at the end of the game :D
Recently updated to the current version.
This post also has an end-game save attached (only Dullahan left as I cannot beat him right now so tips are also appreciated...). Hopefully it can help somehow.

I do not think I have anything new to add at the moment but noticed a few description mistakes here and there. Like the Alastor's Hood says it boosts Luck when it does not, I think.
Was Mythril Blade removed from the game? I could not get it so I uh, edited one in and it turned into a ? item, haha.

I went by the opening post and I think got all the new items (RNG manipulation) but is there anything else?

Here is a thought on Darksword.
Why did you change its unleash to Jupiter?
Now that a lot of unleashes are potentially stronger due to better elements handling, it would be a good candidate for the other Venus Adept if you choose the "cursed warrior" setup. More consistent than Tisiphone Edge. If you want to leave it Jupiter then maybe the Terror Shield should boost that instead of Mercury.
I guess you wanted a proper Jupiter sword that is consistent unlike Excalibur. Mercury has Caladbolg now and Masamune.
What is some other alternative to Tisiphone Edge for those who are not using Sol Blade?

I understand a lot depends on setups but from the basic perspective. It is of course very debatable so that is why I am asking.

This is how I currently see it in terms of "ultimate" weapons:
Mercury Mage Weapon -> Nebula Wand
Venus Mage Weapon -> Ker's Weight
Jupiter Mage Weapon -> Lachesis' Rule
Mars Mage weapon -> Atropos' Rod

Mercury Warrior Weapon (consistent)/(inconsistent) -> Caladbolg / Masamune
Venus Warrior Weapon -> Sol Blade / Tisiphone Edge
Jupiter Warrior Weapon -> Darksword / Excalibur
Mars Warrior weapon -> Alecto's Mace / None?

Like this I can see the reasoning so... I guess I need to rephrase it to: What is the next good Venus weapon for a warrior?

No comment on armor and stuff because wow, I think most of it makes perfect sense!

Thanks for the hack :D


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 18, 2017, 09:35:59 PM
Before everything else, thanks for playing this mod till the very end and glad you enjoyed it.

Now, about your questions:

I opened the ROM in my editor and Alastor's Hood has the correct description so... i don't really know. You sure it's alastor? and most important, did you see other mistakes? if yes, where?

Mythril Blade wasn't removed. Actually, i don't recall "removing" anything, unless it became something else like the supernova axe into Herculean Axe.

Darksword: yes it went to jupiter cause i didn't like having the top 2 strongest swords with the same element. IIRC before the caladbolg was added, i had already changed the darksword's element to mercury.

Other than that i don't think i've ever thought about splitting weapons into reliable and unreliable.
I don't even consider masamune an endgame weapon cause the gap from tisiphone is way too big... the other endgame mercury weapon is the Rising Mace. For Mars instead the other spot obviously belongs to the Herculean Axe.

Another reason for Darksword not staying as Venus is cause Ker's Weight is also (forced) venus and i wanted to variate a bit for cursed equipments. Also, i don't see the problem on the shield cause you'd probably get the jupiter bonus from the helm anyway. And if you skipped the helm cause you didn't like the HP loss, i'm telling you that i placed Jupiter there on purpose :P

Also, for me the endgame mercury staff is more Clotho's Distaff rather than nebula wand cause i tend to use staves as support rather than unleashing but they're really close in terms of power so it's fine.

So, my answer to your "What is the next good Venus weapon for a warrior?"... you guessed it, for me it's Tisiphone.

I'll try your dullahan when i have some free time and let you know here how it goes ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on April 19, 2017, 04:11:19 PM
My bad! It is Gloria Helm. The description says Boosts Luck, Replenishes PP but it actually replenishes HP and no Luck bonus.

Alright. I will try to get Mythril Blade then. I could not and using the save editor gave me a glitched item instead :D

I see your point about Darksword so I guess that is clear now as well!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 19, 2017, 05:12:03 PM
You're right, i forgot to update Gloria and Millennium Helm's description after their changes for Reloaded. Thanks man!

PS. Mythril Blade's description too... I might make a quick fix for those. Let me know if you spot more!

PPS: i just tried hacking in a mythril blade via save editor and i got the blank coin as well, this is something worth investigating.

Edit: tried forging a hacked in mythril silver, got the blade at first try so it's confirmed being in.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on April 19, 2017, 08:35:18 PM
Awesome! I will give it a try then!

Hm... Let's see. Did some snooping around in the store (could only check what I have there):
Dragon Robe - Minor thing. "bestows" is not capitalized :D
Dragon Scales - Resists Fire BUT the armor also resists Water! This description is actually correct in the first game, haha!
Arcadia Mail - No mention it also boosts Luck!
Bone Armlet - No mention it also boosts Earth power!
Herbed Shirt - Debatable. Replenishes HP does explain HP regen but maybe word it in a way that also shows you can use it in battle.

Speaking of the first game... Unfortunately, I only have a cleared save left so no access to shops so no idea if there are any mistakes BUT I think I might have seen one so someone else will have to provide OR I will hack in all items on a fresh file right away when I have the time. I do not think you added any new ones there.

EDIT: Which save file editor do you have? I have GSSGEdit 2.0a for a long time now and it seems to be the only one? You also cannot hack in the new stuff but I guess that makes sense because it does not know it is there.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 19, 2017, 10:27:30 PM
bestows fixed, dragon scales fixed.

arcadia and bone are fire cause i omit passive bonus in the description when there's a on-use effect.

herbed is kinda fine: the description is ok cause i removed the on use effect but i still had to fix something.

@Save editor: same as yours and yes everything you said is correct.

Thanks a lot for your tips!

Edit: patches updated


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 29, 2017, 10:56:01 PM
Patches updated to v1.1

Nothing major, I just implemented the latest 2 patch in the download sections. So, stat-boosting items aren't affected by RNG anymore and a few menu panels and the text inside them have been rearranged.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on May 01, 2017, 03:31:05 PM
Updated my game so thanks!
Also beat Dullahan so that is solved :D

Writing because I just found a small graphical bug. No idea if it is known but this is the very first time I see it :O
You can walk behind the INN sign in Prox. I do not know if that happens anywhere else.
This is a really pointless bug but since you are doing minor improvements as well plus I am not sure where else to post it, haha.

Screenshot included.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Salanewt on May 01, 2017, 04:18:31 PM
It's probably worth a small mention but those kinds of graphical errors happen a lot, lol.

Hides away again, but not before saying "congratulations on the hack Caledor!"


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 01, 2017, 11:06:23 PM
@MadJak: great! If you don't mind please share your story of how came to beat him since you experienced some difficulties.

About the graphical bug, i actually spotted it myself not too long ago but it doesn't really bother me (and i'm clueless at map stuff).

@Squirtle: Thanks! :D


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 03, 2017, 11:02:53 AM
Never touched anything about RNG. If the item doesn't drop, it's VERY likely there are mistakes in your method.

Guides for RNG are here for TBS: https://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/468548-golden-sun/faqs/19312
and here for TLA: https://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/561356-golden-sun-the-lost-age/faqs/25734


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: leaf on May 03, 2017, 06:10:21 PM
The enemy group that appears is based on your timing from system on to when you load in. If your timing isn't frame perfect, you won't get the same group every time. What's more, enemy groups may have been edited in Cal's hack, so even if your timing *is* frame perfect, it's possible that the enemy group that used to be Magicore+Vile Dirge is now Magicore x2.

I think the former is a lot more likely, though. You're consistently using one timing, but it's not the same timing you used before.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on May 04, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
I think it's more likely that an enemy group has additional actions per turn you're not accounting for in your RN calculations. Cal added quite a few instances where monsters act twice; could this be one of them?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 04, 2017, 08:03:36 PM
That shouldn't happen anymore. Some release ago, with the latest enemy revamp, most enemies went back to 1 turn and became stronger.

The most likely reason for drops not happening is that players tend to follow step by step guides that worked for the original game instead of making their own. Well, aside from making math mistakes, which happens also often (quite often...)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on May 05, 2017, 10:53:47 AM
1) Graphical glitch:
Yep! It is a really minor thing but I noticed it only now :D
Definitely nothing important but I figured I would throw it here.

2) I killed Dullahan after X number of times where X is pretty big I would say lmao :D
Nah but it took me a LOT of tries since I have last mentioned him.
Basically, I adjusted the general strategies written on the wiki as you changed classes a bit so that I still have a lot of healing and reviving. Also grinded for a few Mist Potions and Water of Life(s). Then simply tried until I got into a favorable loop and used Luff when needed :D
I also found new appreciation for Eddy, haha.

3) RNG abuse:
I have noticed I could not pull it off sometimes even when I was following the general two-enemy advice and it turned out I had to use a different Djinn. For example, I could not get a drop with Bane or Sap but Flint did it with the same strategy.
It has a been a long time so I do not remember whether it was always like that but probably was since there has been no changes to the system as was already said.
I hope that helps.

I beat the game a few days back. Doom Dragon was fine since I was buffed from Dullahan but still seemingly tougher than before and Cruel Ruin is well, more cruel ;D
Now I have two saves: One cleared and one with the game pretty much fully explored (not every artefact in stores).
Awesome patch all around, truly! Cannot go back to the original game now!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: leaf on May 05, 2017, 07:06:51 PM
The djinni you use shouldn't have an effect on getting a drop. However, either your elemental level or epow could (I forget which).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fox on May 05, 2017, 09:43:09 PM
Referring to djinn kills/rainbow kills? http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2760.msg46291#msg46291

The chance for quadrupled item drop chance is this in the original game (As long as the djinni is the element where the enemy's resistance is lower than their other elements.):
(Attacker ePower - Defender eResist + 30) * 655 > BRN(,0xFFFF)



For the original game:  Most of the times, the lowest enemy resistance will be 72 or below... Exceptions include Dullahan (110 Jupiter), Doom Dragon (98 Jupiter)... and the very first elemental data entry (all 100 stats), and third entry (all 90 resist stats) -- Probably can rule out those four if they do not have item drops...


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 05, 2017, 10:18:39 PM
In my game many Resistances have been raised, but the rainbow effect is a dead giveaway of whether the chance quadrupled or not.

If you're not seeing it, you need to either Enfeeble the enemy before killing it or just raise you characters' power with equipment, cause no rainbow = no item.

@Leaf: a few Djinn have strange effects on the RNG counter so it's believable, and i'd say it's certain that it's the reason if he just selected a different djinn on the last turn.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on May 07, 2017, 06:55:23 PM
Just did a quick test.
Mars Lighthouse -> Minos Warrior and Aka Manah -> Ninja Sandals.

First turn:
4x Psynergy targeting both enemies.

Second turn:
2x Psynergy targeting both enemies.
Venus Djinn on Aka Manah -> flashes and dies
Defend
Minos Warrior makes his move.

Third turn:
Attack -> Minos Warrior dies -> Ninja Sandals but...

Here are the details (I used a save state before making the same commands on the second turn):
I tried Flint, Sap, Bane and Geode. All made Aka Manah flash and die.
After Flint, Sap and Geode, Minos Warrior used Sack and raised his Attack. On the third turn, Ivan unleashed and killed him ending the battle WITH Ninja Sandals.
After Bane, Minos Warrior used Power Crush. On the third turn, Ivan attacked normally (without the unleash) and killed him ending the battle WITHOUT Ninja Sandals.

Meaning, some Djinn probably adjust the RNs differently? I actually do not remember that at all in the vanilla game but is has been a very long time...
This is just one example but like the poster above said, this also happened to me with other drops and other Djinn. I remember a similar case with some of the Mercury Djinn against Nue for the new Mars based mace.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 07, 2017, 07:19:02 PM
Quote
I tried Flint, Sap, Bane and Geode. All made Aka Manah flash and die.
Not surprising cause the Power/Res difference remains the same.

Quote
After Flint, Sap and Geode, [...] WITH Ninja Sandals.
After Bane [...] WITHOUT Ninja Sandals.
I think that Bane adds 1 more to the RNG than Flint Sap and Geode, and i'm pretty sure it has to do with his venom inducing effect. I'd be interesting to try 2 things:

1) Open the editor remove the venom effect from Bane and try again under the same settings.
2) Battle again but make it so that you reach bane's turn with 1 RNG point less (to see if effectively bane is the same as Flint+1).

The best advice is try to avoid djinn with secondary effects when going for RNG drops.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on May 08, 2017, 12:20:55 PM
Oh, okay, that makes sense actually.
Funny the guides do not mention that.
That would also explain my problem with the Mercury Djinn like Mist who causes Sleep.

Sorry then.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bov110 on May 08, 2017, 08:22:11 PM
 so, question say after beating GS1 how would transferring work after the patch? or is there a way to bypass it or simply use a gold code? Any answers appreciated:)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on May 08, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
Works the same. I simply obtained my gold code and used it like normal!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bov110 on May 08, 2017, 08:34:09 PM
great news thanks i was gonna use that code generator i found a long time ago lol


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 08, 2017, 10:15:37 PM
Just remember that minor issue with Mountain Water: only up to one per character will be transferred, regardless of how many they carry.

Sorry then.

Lol sorry for what? You tested it on your own and helped us understand that issue better. I'm thankful, actually! :D


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bov110 on May 08, 2017, 11:08:35 PM
thanks ill be sure to keep that in mind any threads or anything with a list of small issues like the one you brought up?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 09, 2017, 09:19:40 AM
No issues i'm aware of, so if you spot something please report here.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 14, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
Where exactly do Grand Golems appear(In TLA)? I think I have missed them somewhere. According to your drop guide they are lvl 32 which kinda means that they should be either at Jupiter Lighthouse or ar Magma Rock. Did I missed them there or are they at different place?
They're in Trial Road.

Quote
And also, did the name of Grand Chimera got changed to Hell Chimera?
Yes, cause Hell Chimera is the original japanese name. I also fixed the misunderstanding on the opening post so thanks for pointing it out.


EDIT: Sneak peek of next release info panel. Critical hits bonus shows actual value


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on May 15, 2017, 12:03:58 AM
Oh, that's good!~   Think you'd be able to add that to the Balanced Age patches when you find the time?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 15, 2017, 12:33:53 AM
Well, I usually wouldn't cause there's no real reason to play Balanced Age now over Reloaded with the beta status gone... BUT, since

a) it's literally two bytes per game
b) i have the addresses documented in the other thread
c) It's your birthday

I might as well do it.

So... happy birthday Role! :D

EDIT: Done


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on May 15, 2017, 11:38:08 AM
Thanks.

But yeah, I'd want to finish my playthrough of TBA before doing Reloaded.  One of those "finish what you start" sort of deals.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 16, 2017, 09:31:57 AM
I just finished my playthrough of TBS so it's a good time for an update.

That said, Reloaded v1.2 is up: minor tweaks and the item info panel improvement.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 16, 2017, 12:15:53 PM
Yup, translation error, thanks for reporting. It's already fixed for the next release.

EDIT: ... which is already up cause i also had to fix a visual bug with the in-battle djinn menu panel (TLA only).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 19, 2017, 01:25:49 PM
Back to modding.

Next release will I've made Defense buffs and debuffs stronger. As you all know Attack and Defense buffs use the same multipliers but due to how damage formulas are structured, Defense is always a lot lower than the Attack value.

That's why boosting Defense is always worse than reducing the enemy's atk, and reducing the enemy's defense is always worse than boosting your own attack.

This won't fix things perfectly and make them equally worthy, but it will noticeably reduce the gap between the two.

Original multipliers (attack & def) go from 4/8 (max debuff = x0.5) to 12/8 (max buff = x1.5) in 1/8 steps.
New multipliers (Def only) go from 4/16 (x0.25) to 28/16 (x1.75) in 3/8 steps.

PS: Another thing i'd like to do is to make some equipment capable of affecting the chance to debuff enemies. This way the characters will be able to specialize in debuffing. I already have a rough idea of how i should implement it but i don't how how difficult it might be so i'm keeping things vague for now.

EDIT: For the next release I've also fixed the random encounters around Prox. The game was still using the usual Western Sea land enemies, which is completely wrong. I must've skipped that part when porting changes from the italian game as usual so I apologize about that.

EDIT2: v1.3 is UP


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Ender_Wizard on May 22, 2017, 09:15:27 AM
Can you post the Psyenergy gained from level up on all classes someplace? Because some classes have had their level ups changed like the swordsman, which normally gets cutting edge at level 11 but doesn't have it in my current play through.
I would like to know what has been changed level up wise on the rest of the classes as well. Thank you for making this hack though. Its really great.  :JupiterDjinni: :JupiterSet:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 22, 2017, 09:25:03 AM
Hi ender wizard. You can easily check all the level ups by opening the ROM with atrius' editor, so I omitted it from the excel sheet. Same reason as why I haven't made a psynergy sheet despite all the power levels and pp costs I've changed. Btw the swordsman line learns cutting edge at 12


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Ender_Wizard on May 22, 2017, 10:04:09 AM
Wow. Thanks for replying so soon.
I didn't expect a reply for a while.
Also I am new to this, so I was unaware of the editor.
Thanks for your help and for your hack.
 :JupiterDjinni: :JupiterSet:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 22, 2017, 05:33:27 PM
Wow. Thanks for replying so soon.
I didn't expect a reply for a while.
Also I am new to this, so I was unaware of the editor.
Thanks for your help and for your hack.
 :JupiterDjinni: :JupiterSet:

Well I get notified by mail when someone replies here so it may happen that i reply within minutes.
Glad you're enjoying the mod, let me know if you have any other issue with it.

Also, time for an ANNOUNCEMENT.

Next release is gonna be pretty big cos i managed to implement a new attribute to items (over the unused counterstrike rate attribute) which boosts the chance to inflict ailments and debuffs. You'll basically be able to create dedicated "saboteurs" that excel at hindering enemies, even bosses with very high luck (Samurai class, i'm looking at you).

For now i can only say that MANY pieces of equipment will be affected by this but ATM i've yet yo decide which ones and how.

Stay tuned, and wait for the changelog!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded (v1.5)
Post by: Caledor on May 27, 2017, 10:36:58 AM
Major release v1.5 is UP!

As announced this version introduces the "Ailments" attribute on equipment, which boosts the chance to inflict debuffs and ailments (and anything else that requires a Luck check on the enemy). The number shown is a flat % increase, just like items that boost the critical hits chance. Keep in mind that this bonus won't do anything if the enemy is immune to the ailment.

I've also used this chance to do a global check of equipment and unleashes so there are A LOT of minor changes and a few major fixes, like for the unleashes of Viking Axe and Hagbone Mace, cause i forgot to update their unleashes accordingly when i moved them to Prox and Trial Road respectively.

I'll paste here TLA's changelog from the Download section for reference.

"Ailment" attribute implemented.
Minor fixes to some weapons, mostly maces & light blades.
Maces don't improve Resistance anymore; some of them increase Ailments chance.
Darksword, cursed staves, Matoi and Meditation Rod increase Ailments chance.
Minor fixes to many pieces of defensive gear.
Major changes for Demon Mail, Black Garb, Spirit Gloves, Jester's Armlet, Prophet's Hat, Ninja Headband, Devil's Crown, Alastor's Hood, Astral Circlet, Stardust Ring, Angel's Ring.
Many unleashes have been strengthened, especially those belonging to weapons found late in the game.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on May 27, 2017, 11:17:45 PM
Oh hell, that sounds delicious.  So increase ailment resistances AND offenses?  Dood, I can't wait to play this version.  Any other juicy additions you've got up your sleeve? :3c


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 27, 2017, 11:47:46 PM
Oh hell, that sounds delicious.  So increase ailment resistances AND offenses?  Dood, I can't wait to play this version.  Any other juicy additions you've got up your sleeve? :3c

Wait a min, that could be a misunderstanding. It's true that you can increase both ailment resistances AND offenses, but with 2 different attributes.

Luck affects ailment resistance and ailment recovery.
The new "Ailment" attribute is only for offense.

As for other additions, ATM the ToDo list is empty. The only thing i'd like to do is rearrange the Djinn in TLA, cause those early mercury ones are a pain, but i have no clue.

Still, maybe some other things will pop up in the future... this mod is 2 and a half y.o., i lost count of how many times i said "it's finished", and it's still improving ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on May 28, 2017, 03:38:50 AM
?  My apologies, I had thought you mentioned earlier that you'd have certain armors increase resistance to specific ailments.  Must have mis-remembered.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fox on May 28, 2017, 09:13:56 AM
Quote
The only thing i'd like to do is rearrange the Djinn in TLA, cause those early mercury ones are a pain, but i have no clue.
Fog (Kandarian Temple), and Sour (Osenia random encounter.)

No clue how to edit them, or no clue what to do with them/what to put in its place?


--
Easiest way to find it without documentation might be to put a breakpoint write on the flag data (Referring to the 0x200 bytes at 0x02000040, but the djinn flags appear in the first row.), and trace it back to what one wants to edit?
Fog is probably given from Map Code... based on how Events are done...

As for Sour...

0200E7C0 = World Map Event table... looking for flags 0x30-0x7F (0x4C being Sour) in entries that replace the common 0xFFFF. == Six djinn entries.... and the Sour one is at 0200E7FC-0200E807 , That's the event for it, but you might need to edit 0x5D's in the map data to move its location. (Event Type 0x2 is tile-based.)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 28, 2017, 07:50:12 PM

No clue how to edit them, or no clue what to do with them/what to put in its place?

ATM both. I know it annoys me, but that's also as far as i thought about it. Knowing i'd be a huge pain to reallocate them i didn't bother worrying too much.

Also, for now i can totally live with it. I finished TBS and started TLA right before v1.3, so i think that now is a really good time for playing the mod, something i haven't managed to do in the last 2 years.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Saturos64 on May 30, 2017, 12:50:10 AM
Hey there, I just found out about your creation (and it looks great!) and I'm planning on playing it over the next few weeks. I'll probably just jump to GS2 right away, I've been playing lots of GS1, so I'll like the change of pace. On your bio or whatever that is (text below your profile name/image) it says you need saves to test encounters for this. Any idea what specific encounters you mean? I'd be glad to help out with some save data as I move my way through. Lastly, I'll plan on giving my thoughts about the new edits. Looks like I'm gonna have some fun this month.  :happy:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 30, 2017, 08:54:32 AM
Hello Saturos, and welcome aboard!

About the saves thing, i need them only for encounters you want me to check. People often here tell me "check encounter x, it might be too strong/weak/etc": if you want me to do that, i need your save before that fight. ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded (v1.55)
Post by: Caledor on May 30, 2017, 10:51:03 PM
It's been only 3 days, but it's time for another update.

I got kinda annoyed at the thought that Jenna doesn't get a Mars based staff until Salamander Rod, so I gave her 2, one for each Sea.
Asteria's Staff, which replaces Glower Staff and Cultist's Rod, which replaces Goblin's Rod.
Also, since Mercury based Axes are non-existant, their unleashes went to Captain's Axe (Sargasso) and Deepsea Axe (= Mighty Axe, which gets Ocean's Roar = Flash Force). This also allowed me to fix Captain's Axe unleash, cause the animation was bugged.
Swapped Blessed Ankh and Psynergy Rod unleashes to give Ivan/Sheba an earlier Jupiter boosting staff.
Power and type for all those unleashes is the same of the original weapon (only name, element, animation and side effect change).

TLA's starting levels were reverted to 5 (Jenna levels up to 5 after defeating the Punchy Ant in the cave) cause that level makes a lot of difference in Kandora and early Dekhan.

Also, some lore: some of you might think that it's weird to find a Mars based staff in the Shrine of the Sea God but Asteria is a Greek titan who died (rusty weapon) by flinging herself into the sea. :P


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Salanewt on May 31, 2017, 03:24:08 PM
I love that bit of lore! You also have a very good point about the lack of Mars staves early on...

Keep up the good work. :P


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 01, 2017, 09:57:20 PM
I love that bit of lore! You also have a very good point about the lack of Mars staves early on...

Keep up the good work. :P

Usually nobody cares about the element of the unleash midgame. But it's very important that Maces and Staves at least have some kind of reasonable distribution due to the power buff. In GS1 you find ONLY Mercury and Jupter staves, but it's fine, cause those are the main elements of Ivan and Mia. In TLA from early eastern sea to early western sea there are 4 staves and 3 of them are Mercury.


Also, expect an update in the near future. I found out that ability effects 41 and 43 are bugged and they respectively double and triple damage in addition to the effect I wanted them to have. Those 2 effects are used by damaging abilities that Stun or Haunt their target, like Stun Voltage.

EDIT: Lol Fury (the Mars Djinn) is completely broken

EDIT2: This bug was originally discovered 2 months ago by VardenSalad...

Quote
Alright, away from computer now, and I can't find a way to move files via my phone file structure to attach. I'll get a save at Sea of Time Islet cave, one at Gondowan Cliffs without Piers (that's the most recent older save that I have, quite a bit behind current), and the Broken Seal endgame file.

For weapon unleashes that I know have this issue: the Cloud Wand, Staff of Anubis (obviously), and the Robber's Blade. Also, the Djinn Char seems to have the same issue with that spiked damage (Felix pushing 400+ unbuffed randomly) and Wheeze has the animation problem I mentioned earlier.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Salanewt on June 01, 2017, 10:00:55 PM
Yeah, there really does need to be a better staff distribution in general. :/

Haha, oops! I also used those for the Intellect patch! Just for buffs at least, but that's still not a good sign...


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on June 02, 2017, 11:31:18 AM
Ankhs need a huge increase and distribution as well - I still find people how don't know that GS treats it as a separate weapon type.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 02, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Ankhs need a huge increase and distribution as well - I still find people how don't know that GS treats it as a separate weapon type.

It depends. If you want to balance the number of weapons warriors and mages have access to, yes. Otherwise, i don't think so: mages don't need to continuously improve their weapons like warriors do, so it's fine it there are fewer of them.

In my mod Ankhs are weapons that boost ailment offense and defense, something quite marginal in a standard playthrough. 5 of those evenly distributed is ok imo.


Edit: I've fixed all the bugs, even the other bugs Varden reported like the Whorl one and others he probably missed, but i'll wait a bit before releasing a new patch. The reason is that it's gonna include A LOT of changes to the early game and i want to be sure they are final by playing them.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 04, 2017, 02:22:58 PM
:)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 04, 2017, 04:29:41 PM
Release pushed further back cause a sudden burst of ideas filled my ToDo list. Spoiler: it has to do with debuffs and warriors.

:)

Made you wait for those fixes man (and technically i still am :P)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 04, 2017, 06:16:03 PM
I'll be very, very interested to hear what you plan on doing with the Mercury Djinn pre-Piers


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 04, 2017, 06:28:27 PM
Well, after that talk with Fox i gave it some thought so i already know what i want to do: what bothers me is that by the time Piers joins you have 2 Venus Djinn, 3 Mars/Jupiter and 5 (FIVE) Mercury, which is completely imbalanced.

So the solution is to swap the overworld Mercury Djinn around Naribwe with the Venus one found in Gabomba Catacombs (the one that requires Cyclone)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 06, 2017, 03:21:53 AM
Ahh, just one djinn then. Alright.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 06, 2017, 01:03:38 PM
Yeah, that is the only thing that imo really needs to be addressed. I know there's this difference with TBS, where you start getting Mercury Djinn only after Mia, but:

1) TLA is supposed to be the "expert mode" of TBS, since you already had the basics taught from the first game
2) Piers joins at 18, 8 levels later than Mia. Enemies in Mars lighthouse are at 35. I really can't deny an entire element for almost half of the game.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 06, 2017, 04:04:44 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong, I know why they are where they are.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: 2dgirlfan on June 06, 2017, 07:03:54 PM
Anyone have a complete Broken Seal end-game file (or just a password) for this mod? Wanted to try TLA with it, but have no interest in playing Broken Seal again.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 06, 2017, 07:14:36 PM
Here it is. It's from the italian version of the game but it's compatible. Includes a final save game and one at Venus Lighthouse in case you want to backtrack for something.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 06, 2017, 09:25:10 PM
v1.6 is up! and is quite the big update

Before everything else, my congratulations to all of you who played TLA till eastern sea before this patch. You all truly deserve it. The point is, with Reloaded i succeeded (finally) in making TLA exactly as hard as TBS, but in TLA you start at a higher level and you literally skip a town, so all shops were lagging behind.

To make it short: a lv 10 enemy in TLA is about as strong as a lv 10 equivalent in TBS, but in TLA it'd be like fighting it with equipment from Vault instead of Bilibin. That's why Emus hit VERY hard, Sheba died to the drop of a hat etc etc. So...

1) I shifted ALL shops "left" by 1 city. Thus, Daila = Vault, Madra = Bilibin (etc etc) with minor exceptions. Items found in chests before the eastern sea were obviously affected by this due to the Golden Rule and have improved. Knight's Greaves boost Ailment chance so they might be useful now instead of being total crap.

2) The debuff and warrior thing: EPA with added damage have 2 issues. They're crazy strong as soon as you obtain them, but their power fades away with time. Solution: ALL multipliers. The only ones that are still added damage type are those that multiply damage from the effect like Excalibur.
For reference, the lowest multiplier for unleashes is 1.5, ragnarok & co are ALL 1.4 (so no more EPAs are better than unleashing until tolbi). Dragon Cloud and death leap are 1.6

2nd stage EPA are 1.7 and have a base 70% chance to debuff the target by 2 stages so they're useful even in the endgame. Odissey, Liquifier and Diamond Berg lower def, Thunder Mine res and Plume Edge atk. Planetary has a flat 50% chance to ignore defense instead. Helm/Skull splitter are a weaker and stronger odissey respectively. Epicenter is a stronger Planetary, Death Plunge is a jupiter Epicenter. Quick Strike & co + Annhilation had their multiplier raised to 2.0. Shuriken raised to x1.2

The Tamer series: Minotaur has a flat x2.2, Ghost Soldier is the same as Death Plunge, Troll is basically Odissey. Manticore allows for a limitless PP supply.

3) Summons had their base power raised cause i noticed that for the 5+ ones the Damage/Djinn ratio wasn't increasing, thus making the strongest literally useless. The downside is that HIS Charon is gonna hurt more now.

4) Stat changes to class: Magic Resistance (WRD) for all wizards has improved, then i used a new formula to rebalance the stat multipliers. The changes are mostly improvements, take a look at the doc, changes are in red

5) The Acrobat has the peculiarity of being the only wizard that can damage and debuff at the same time - like warriors do with the new EPAs - with Thunder Card (-res) and Bramble Card (-def). The debuff is also more reliable at 100% base chance but also weaker: 1 stage instead of 2.

That's it!

Oh, and... Varden's long awaited fixes.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 06, 2017, 11:01:14 PM
hey, doing like a billion damage with specific djinn or unleashes has a tendency to debalance the game a bit, especially since those were some useful djinn and unleashes that had the issue.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 06, 2017, 11:09:19 PM
hey, doing like a billion damage with specific djinn or unleashes has a tendency to debalance the game a bit, especially since those were some useful djinn and unleashes that had the issue.

Can you be more specific?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 06, 2017, 11:11:06 PM
it was the double/triple damage fixes you implemented. those were really needed. thanks for getting to those; they were quite odd.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 06, 2017, 11:13:09 PM
Ah, nevermind then. Somehow i misread damage as changes, so i thought you were worried about the impact all those changes might have had.

BTW as you now know they were related to damaging effects that had a chance to haunt or stun. The effect slots i was using for those abilities were bugged (they are close to the double/triple damage effect and they do the same thing IN ADDITION to any effect you put there), so i just moved those effects into another slot.

As for the whorl animation bug: again it's related to effect slots. Effects from 36 to 40 are kinda bugged and have a chance to mess up effects that use attack animations, which are the ones where the character executes the attack animation before the effect... like Murk, Scorpionfish. They're safe for spell-like animations (like Titan Blade) instead.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: 2dgirlfan on June 07, 2017, 12:42:57 AM
Is the transfer screen supposed to have Isaac with 1/0 HP and PP?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 07, 2017, 12:48:59 AM
Is the transfer screen supposed to have Isaac with 1/0 HP and PP?
You're probably seeing this on a non-patched game. Since classes aren't in the same slot as the original, it might happen that characters have the wrong index for their class. And if the index points to an empty class slot, where stat multipliers are all 0s, this happens.

It's a non issue though. Stats are immediately corrected if you force a class refresh by messing with the character's djinn


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Baransu on June 07, 2017, 11:06:56 AM
I never really noticed that TLA was a shop behind the level average until when you made the shop edits, definitely a good idea when it comes balancing the game. Shifting most of the relevant physical skills to multipliers reminds me of Dark Dawn in a way, although now I wonder how mages will stack up because near the end of the TBS patch, I was resorting to having everyone spam the attack command because spells still couldn't beat unleashes when it came down to it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 07, 2017, 11:45:15 AM
It wasn't an issue cause enemies in TLA have always been A LOT weaker then their same level counterpart from TBS. The lv 18 Red Demon from Gabomba (strongest here) has lower Atk and Def than the lv 18 Armored Rat (nobody) found near tolbi for example. Now that enemies in TLA have caught up, it became a necessity.

@Spells: the main issue with spells is that they don't age well, cause the base power makes of a huge portion of the actual damage dealt. Maybe I can come up with something better than the PP multiplier


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 07, 2017, 12:56:16 PM
You could tier the bonus from the PP multiplier. It sits at something like (X/1024) flat now, correct? Maybe starting at something like 250 PP or 300 PP, the bonus could start applying at (X/512) for each Psynergy Point over the set amount?

Obviously, the numbers could be changed.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 07, 2017, 01:05:30 PM
Sadly tiers won't work. They create scenarios where, when crossing the tier boundary, it either becomes suddenly worse or suddenly better. I want to avoid discontinuities in the function.

ATM i'm considering the possibility of making part of the pp multiplier additive or throwing in the level of the character or other PP related things.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Baransu on June 07, 2017, 01:37:54 PM
It might be easier to do some general testing by comparing physical damage vs spell damage in various break point areas so Chestbeaters, Aqua Hydra, Poseidon, Jupiter Lighthouse and Mars Lighthouse and seeing where spells start falling off and the percentage difference at that too. That way you can create a modifier to kind of bridge the difference so that the gap isn't as high.

In my hack, while I am using the Int patch instead of the multiplier, I opted for spells to be consistent over time damage compared to the burst damage from Unleashes, although this method requires you to drop the unleash rate cap to about 55-65% or so to keep it from getting out of hand. If you're keeping the 99% unleash rate cap then you'll probably need to drastically bump up damage to keep up with constant 2.2x and 2.6x attacks going off each turn.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 07, 2017, 02:02:35 PM
Cal, I'm suggesting each new point over the mark follows a new scaling, not the whole thing.

For example, you have 350 PP. The first 250 PP always scale at (X/1024). The remaining 100 PP scale at (X/512). It wouldn't change all the earlier scaling.

It may not work well regardless, but I at least want you to know what I'm pitching.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 07, 2017, 03:44:01 PM
It might be easier to do some general testing by comparing physical damage vs spell damage in various break point areas so Chestbeaters, Aqua Hydra, Poseidon, Jupiter Lighthouse and Mars Lighthouse and seeing where spells start falling off and the percentage difference at that too. That way you can create a modifier to kind of bridge the difference so that the gap isn't as high.

That much is certain.

Quote
Cal, I'm suggesting each new point over the mark follows a new scaling, not the whole thing.
Oh, then it's fine, but multipliers won't help reducing the gap you feel between one spell and the next one. I think i need an additive constant.

Thanks for all your inputs though, i didn't expect all this interest on the matter.

And yeah, i have some work to do on endgame unleashes


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Baransu on June 07, 2017, 04:52:21 PM
If you're going to use an additive modifier, I'd probably recommend using your level as a base. Dullahan is at about 50 or so, therefore a level modifier would at bare minimum add 50 damage and at maximum 150. I wouldn't recommend anything higher since then spells would be way too strong in the eastern sea/early western sea period when your physical characters are really coming into their own.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 07, 2017, 06:49:11 PM
I've considered many things but i think i've figured it out. Might as well share it with you in advance since the discussion has already started.

For spells: the additive modifier will be MaxPP/8. It's quite big since my lv12 sheba has 99 PP, so i'll have to reduce the original base power (but it's a good thing cause once again the gap with warriors widens). This number is added directly to BP so it's factored in the Power/Res calculation and the PP multiplier itself.

I won't touch anything else in the formula and adjust base power of spells from there with a batch of saves set at each 5 levels or so.

Megiddo will probably go down to x2.4, the Herculean Axe/Caladbolg to x2.2, Darksword/Alecto to x2.1. Excalibur/Tisiphone are both x2.2 inherently (with added base damage 0) cause that's the weighted multiplier they'll use on average.

Another thing I'm gonna reduce is the endgame level, both for Dullahan and the last learned spell. Mid fourties for both maybe? Or dullahan to 45 and spells 42 or so... i don't really know.

All the things combined here are for the following goals:
a) obviously give the same offensive potential to both mages and warriors
b) reduce the gap between one spell and the next
c) mages won't need to hurry to the next spell tier cause they're falling behind


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 07, 2017, 09:53:26 PM
I think of mages acting on a kind of curve between getting a new spell and jumping ahead of warriors on power and not yet having one and declining over a number of levels. Obviously, the idea of making the mage curve flat is impossible, but I don't see an issue with them spiking and fading twice over the course of the game as long as they end up sort of equal near the end (likely due to single target spells).

The sort of +/- on mages is that the AoE-ness of enemies doesn't continuously scale over the course of the game. You're not fighting 19 enemies and having a warrior overkilling 3 at a time but a mage taking out 10. When the majority of the game and the battle system is set up to fight 3 enemies most of the time, warriors beat 1/3-2/3 of the opposition into the ground. The best mage spells, in effect, turn them into warriors that scale with PP and ele power instead of Atk (and ele power).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: leaf on June 07, 2017, 10:40:15 PM
Rather than mess with every ability's base power, couldn't you just make the modifier something like...

MaxPP/8 - 12

That breaks even at 96 PP, thus leaving early game basically as is (slightly nerfed for warriors). Just making it part of the formula makes it so you don't have to do nearly as much grunt work.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 07, 2017, 11:44:39 PM
I think of mages acting on a kind of curve between getting a new spell and jumping ahead of warriors on power and not yet having one and declining over a number of levels. Obviously, the idea of making the mage curve flat is impossible, but I don't see an issue with them spiking and fading twice over the course of the game as long as they end up sort of equal near the end (likely due to single target spells).

The sort of +/- on mages is that the AoE-ness of enemies doesn't continuously scale over the course of the game. You're not fighting 19 enemies and having a warrior overkilling 3 at a time but a mage taking out 10. When the majority of the game and the battle system is set up to fight 3 enemies most of the time, warriors beat 1/3-2/3 of the opposition into the ground. The best mage spells, in effect, turn them into warriors that scale with PP and ele power instead of Atk (and ele power).

I concur with both statements. Spiking and fading isn't an issue and won't disappear, it will just be smoother.

@leaf: very nice idea but it doesn't save me from much grunt work. Actually, spells in levels 8-12 are slightly OP so i want to check them anyway, but i like the concept and I might still use it... We'll see. Thanks ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on June 08, 2017, 12:46:11 AM
That's certainly one way of looking at mages... but the way I see it is that each new spell is basically akin to a warrior equipping a new weapon.  Mages tend to get 6-9 weapons total, while warriors get a new one every 20 minutes.  Thing is, warriors can swing their weapons for free, so the problem of balance doesn't just show itself with rate of staggered upgrades, but also with the scale of cost.  I'd argue dynamic stats as well, but your mods address those already.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 09, 2017, 12:18:19 AM
Casting Bramble Card might currently freeze your game cause i messed up one byte.

It's already fixed for next release but if someone wants to try out the latest changes to the Pierrot class, here's the fix: at 00121645, change 2B to 1B. Sorry for the hassle

@Role: Thinking back, in the original game mages growth was almost identical to a staircase function: only the +5 power from a new djinn could slightly improve spells between steps.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 10, 2017, 08:11:43 PM
I wish there was a way to textually show the base power of spells from the status screen or something similar. There's space in the text box underneath the line that gives the description of the spell ("Attack with wild plants", "...bolts from the heavens") but I have no idea how to access it and my rudimentary experiments just garbled other text.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 10, 2017, 09:51:47 PM
I wish there was a way to textually show the base power of spells from the status screen or something similar. There's space in the text box underneath the line that gives the description of the spell ("Attack with wild plants", "...bolts from the heavens") but I have no idea how to access it and my rudimentary experiments just garbled other text.

Actually there is already text in that space but the english version is bugged so it doesn't appear.
It should show "A:Items L/R:Switch characters" like the other screens of the status menu.

Here's the unbugged italian version


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 11, 2017, 04:11:14 AM
Your text at the bottom showing usability is different from the English version as well. Yours is more useful because it shows all the usabilities at once.

No clue where to stick a short blurb in base power or scaling noe that I know that space is taken up.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 11, 2017, 08:56:54 AM
I played TBS 1.0, TLA 1.3, and TBS 1.55 and found this to be a very well made mod. I have some feedback about difficulty and character/class balance. I'm not sure how much has changed in 1.6 but most of this should still apply.

First and possibly most importantly, Flash seems to reduce non-physical damage by far more than 66%. Deadbeard's Freeze Prism and Spark Plasma and Fusion Dragon's Outer Space were all consistently dealing under 30 damage to all characters, some of which had no boosts to the relevant resistances, when Flash was active. However, Deadbeard's Sweep still hit for around 160 on the primary target when Flash was active (and Deadbeard under 2x Impact), which leads me to believe that Flash still reduces elemental damage by 90% but physical damage by less. This essentially trivialized the endgame of TBS; I didn't even need lvl27 for Break against Deadbeard as long as he didn't use Sweep four times in a row or something because his Freeze Prism and Spark Plasma would do nothing on my Flash turns. Saturos, Menardi, and the Fusion Dragon were even easier since they didn't have anything like Sweep. Rotating Flash and Ground and giving PP regen gear to your healer makes your party all but invulnerable.

Another issue is that there is no significant benefit to being in a mage class over a warrior class unless the character will spam heals, especially in boss battles. Mage classes usually have higher PP and agility at the cost of HP, attack, and defense, but agility is mostly irrelevant against bosses unless the character is a healer and warrior classes' psynergy does comparable damage to mage classes' psynergy with the only difference being max PP. This means that warriors can act as mages when the situation calls for it, but mages can never be effective warriors because short swords and maces are worse than long swords and axes for most of the game. At least against Deadbeard and the final bosses, Ivan ended up being by far my weakest party member because Shine Plasma against single targets is about as strong as basic attacks and Ragnarok from Isaac or Garet but at a high PP cost. In fact I probably could have stuck all my +criticals gear on Mia to have Drown unleash outdamage spamming Glacier. What I'm getting at is in boss battles, attack Psynergy other than Ragnarok/Heat Wave/etc is very weak so casters are relegated to healing (Mia) or using utility Djinn like Breeze, Kite, and Flash (Ivan).

I didn't finish TLA 1.3 but I got to the Flame Dragons. I actually like the early Djinn imbalance since it encourages experimenting with varied class setups. I found giving Venus Djinn to Jenna and Mercury Djinn to Felix while leaving Sheba in her default class was very effective. This is definitely the harder of the two games, especially around Yampi Desert and Gondowan before Piers, but since the shops are adjusted in 1.6 it should be better. Another reason it's harder is the Djinn are way weaker than in TBS. You don't get Shade until around level 21 and not having Granite made boss battles much harder. It is not an exaggeration to say Flash, Shade, Granite, Ground, and Petra are the best Djinn in the game, with the only comparable ones being Ether, Luff, and Kite. Just like with Ivan in TBS, Sheba ended up being the party's weak link, but her Boon and Punishment psynergy made her relevant in boss battles beyond utility Djinn.

Edit: Just started TLA 1.6 and Yampi Desert is still ridiculously hard. The Jupiter Djinn can easily bop my level 9 Jenna from max because it gets two turns. I feel like I need to grind to level 11 or so to take on that zone which is annoying since I never had to grind in TBS.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 11, 2017, 03:24:12 PM
@Varden: IMO the best (only) place is the description. About the bottom line in the status menu, it's the english translation's fault. There are 3 lines, meant to be used for "town/dungeon", "T/D/Battle", "Battle only". The english localization compressed the first two into "town" and uses "battle" only for the last one. You can see for yourself in the editor.

@bpat: thanks for playing with the mod and for the massive feedback. Let's see...
  • Flash: VERY strange. As far as i know, those effects have no way to discriminate between types of damage. I'll check.
  • TBS Endgame Bosses: makes me think that i should reduce their power and increase the number of turns they act (to reduce Ground's effectiveness).
  • Mages: That is being fixed right now. Lower levels for learning psy, especially for those learnt later than 30, and Base power directly increased by max PP.
  • Yampi in 1.6: I did yampi on 1.6 and had no issues. Remember that you can go to Mikasalla before Yampi, where you can grab new gear and a djinn. Going to Yampi before Mikasalla is like going to Imil before Kolima forest, so it's to be expected that it'll be difficult.

Progress for v1.61: The new BD formula is in.
I'm also almost done with updating ALL the classes for the psynergy learning levels. Only item classes in tla missing. It's been a nightmare.
After item classes i'll have to update the psynergies themselves.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 11, 2017, 09:17:48 PM
Huh I totally forgot about Mikasalla. Next time I'll be sure to go there first. I just beat Briggs and found him and the King Scorpion to both be trivially easy compared to random encounters in Yampi Desert. King Scorpion could probably get an extra turn because he doesn't even do as much damage as a Momonga or Emu. Briggs and his Sea Fighters spent a lot of time healing and defending which made the fight very easy since I rarely had to cast Boon.

I don't think giving TBS end bosses extra turns would help fix the Ground/Flash cheese since then Granite would replace Ground and be almost as effective. Flash is the bigger offender since for unknown reasons it reduced psynergy damage to 30 or less so if that is fixed then these encounters would be fine.

Oh one other thing I forgot is that Crossbone Isle before Deadbeard is pretty easy. I figured that getting the Mystery Blade before getting to Tolbi was intended but the encounters after that could be a bit harder.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on June 12, 2017, 03:33:30 AM
Honestly, the problem with Ground isn't one of bosses and turn count - rather, it's the overabundance of solo bosses.  GS really needs more multi-foe boss fights. :/

Upping turn count just defeats the point of ground's very existence.  Even so much as giving bosses two turns can be enough to render ground a waste of time.  Only one, and it becomes too strong.  If you have multiple foes, however, that changes things.  Two foes with one turn each is enough to keep ground very much balanced.  Or at least, that's my musings on the issue.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: leaf on June 12, 2017, 04:00:25 AM
Gonna agree with role that foes with 3+ turns pretty much nullify ground's existence. At 2 turns, you're still cutting out a significant amount of damage by tying up one of them, but at three turns it's functionally a 33% damage reduction... which is just plain inferior to using a barrier djinni.

Multiple foes also gives another lever for balancing mages; they wouldn't need their big AOEs to be hitting for the same damage as unleashes to keep up in boss fights if AOE actually had a purpose there.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on June 12, 2017, 01:12:12 PM
Plus, if the foes are doing different things, who you use ground against is arguably more important than just using ground itself.  For instance, let's say there were two foes in the boss fight - one who did heavy hits, and one who focuses more on healing and buffs.  If you needed emergency healing yourself, using ground on the attack would be more important.  Else, targeting the healer would probably be the optimal strat.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 12, 2017, 11:37:48 PM
@Ground: What you all said makes a lot of sense. So let me ask you: do you think that wall effects are fine as they are now (50% Granite & Shade, 66% Flash) or should they still be a little lower?

About v1.61: everything's done. Holding back the release to check Flash in TBS



Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 13, 2017, 12:08:22 AM
Alright, bpat is correct. King Scorpion now does very, very little damage and I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm underestimating the effects of items.

Emus, Raptors, and Momangas are scary as hell, specifically Emus for doing just a ton of damage. Mikasalla's shop needs tweaked somehow; it only has Adept's Clothes and a Broadsword, which even if it's sort of accurate to old Mikasalla, just sort of looks wrong.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 13, 2017, 12:16:58 AM
Varden or anyone else, please upload a save in Yampi or a bit earlier (char lv 8-9). I'll test those encounter once again cause i really had no issues with the area.

And yes, Flash in TBS reduces by 66% only physical damage, and by 90% base damage.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 13, 2017, 12:44:52 AM
Wish you had let me know a bit ago :/ Middle of Air's Rock now.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 13, 2017, 12:58:32 AM
On the subject of Ground, Granite, etc, I think they're fine as they are as long as Flash gets fixed to reduce base damage attacks by only 66%. Nerfing Ground wouldn't matter since Granite exists and Granite isn't oppressively strong. The Ground/Flash combo was so good because against bosses with two turns like Saturos and Menardi you would take 10% damage then 50% damage assuming no physical attacks. The only threatening physical attack from a late-game enemy is Deadbeard's Sweep, so you can assume you take almost 0 damage on one turn and half damage on the other turn, but if stuff like Spark Plasma starts hitting for 80 instead of 25 on a Flash turn then you'd have to spend more turns and PP healing.

I forgot to keep saves from Yampi Desert but if I find another zone or boss to be too easy or too hard I'll be sure to upload a save of my party in that area.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 13, 2017, 12:26:17 PM
v1.61 is UP

It's all about the new base damage formula, which adds MaxPP/8 to the power of each base damage psynergy.
In TLA lowering the target level for the endgame is a way to reduce the gap between unleashes and EPAs/BD psynergies.

Includes Bramble card fix in TLA and Flash fix in TBS.

@Flash: that thing was ridiculous. There are FIVE separate functions used by Flash, Granite, & Defense command, which are called depending on damage type or effect. I still don't know when 1 of those is used but i changed them all so there shouldn't be more issues.

@Varden. If i'm to ask you everytime, i'll always be late... that's why i put a reminder under my profile pic. Still, it's fine. It will just be longer cause i have to start over again.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 13, 2017, 04:18:29 PM
Yeah, I'll have one for the Mimic fight in Air's Rock uploaded when I get home. This Mimic has Fiery Blast, which just wrecked my party.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 13, 2017, 04:29:48 PM
Yeah, I'll have one for the Mimic fight in Air's Rock uploaded when I get home. This Mimic has Fiery Blast, which just wrecked my party.
Oops that's true. And there's obviously the lv 34 one with Mad Blast too. Fixed both.
If that's the only issue in Air's rock there's no need for a save.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 14, 2017, 04:54:05 AM
Quite odd, but I'm pretty sure Felix using Sour just used the critical hit animation instead of Sour's djinn animation. Testing to confirm.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 14, 2017, 10:46:58 PM
I currently don't have a good internet connection to upload the save but I'll do so when I get home. The Yampi Desert Jupiter Djinn should either not have two turns or not have much weaker psynergy like Slash and Bolt instead of Punishment and Flash Bolt. Punishment + Flash Bolt kills characters under 110 HP and it has high enough agility that you can't reliably heal before it attacks. Something like Punishment + Flash Bolt/Plasma would drop someone to 30 or so health from max, then any psynergy would down them sometimes before I could heal (seemed random if Sheba or the Djinn went first). I had both Felix and Sheba healing with only Jenna attacking (spamming Juggle) and I still needed to use savestates to win with my level 9 party.

Also, what filesharing sites would you recommend for uploading the save?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 14, 2017, 11:04:53 PM
I currently don't have a good internet connection to upload the save but I'll do so when I get home. The Yampi Desert Jupiter Djinn should either not have two turns or not have much weaker psynergy like Slash and Bolt instead of Punishment and Flash Bolt. [...] to win with my level 9 party.

At 9 you are seriously underleveled for Yampi, 11 is the level for enemies in the area. The djinn itself is fine, cause it's a lot weaker than Quartz in TBS despite the 2 being only 1 level apart (which makes sense, cause you fight Quartz as a 4 man party with 2 djinn each.

That said, unless the recent changes to the PP formula had that much of an impact to those early djinn.

Quote
Also, what filesharing sites would you recommend for uploading the save?

No need for filesharing sites for a 64kB upload, just attach it to the post itself. To attach a file, click on "Additional Options..." while posting.


@Varden: I tried for 30 minutes with no success, so let me know if it happens again.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 15, 2017, 01:07:27 PM
Yeah, I did the same. Couldn't get it to happen. I'll pay attention in the future.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 15, 2017, 07:41:14 PM
Yeah I think my problem is probably that I'm underleveled for the Djinn fights. Weirdly I still didn't have a problem with King Scorpion and Briggs despite having a level 10 party but I think that's the nature of fights against single-turn bosses. Both could possibly use a bit more max HP to make PP management a bit harder since I tended to win shortly after running low on PP. I take it level 13-14 is underleveled for the Mercury Djinn after Gondowan Cliffs? I also struggled with the Gondowan Cliffs Mars Djinn at level 13 but somehow managed to beat it.

The save I attached has my level 9 party at the Yampi Desert Jupiter Djinn in the second slot and my level 13-14 party at the Gondowan Cliffs Mercury Djinn third slot.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: leaf on June 15, 2017, 07:43:36 PM
Quote
That said, unless the recent changes to the PP formula had that much of an impact to those early djinn.

Honestly it wouldn't be surprising if suddenly inflicting an extra 10-15 damage broke some early fights. Unlike some games, characters in GS do not get significantly more powerful with levels, so being underleveled shouldn't change much. However, the combination of being underleveled plus the extra damage the djinni puts out, might be enough to put it over the edge. Bpat's party was probably ~10 HP under where you expect them to be, so in tandem with attacks doing another 10-15 damage from the maxPP bonus, that could easily hit a kill breakpoint.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 15, 2017, 07:57:35 PM
Area levels in my mod are the same as the vanilla game. So:

Yampi 11, Air's Rock 14, Gondowan Cliffs 16, Naribwe 16, Kibombo 17, Gabomba Statue 18...

@Leaf: you even guessed the numbers right. I think there might be an issue for djinn in the 11-16 range, cause 11 is the level where djinn start having 2 turns and 16 is the last djinn level before gaining access to area heal.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 15, 2017, 08:19:49 PM
I think even with taking the area levels into account the Djinn in that range may be too strong. I did some grinding and tried again with Felix and Jenna level 16 and Sheba level 15 and still got demolished by the Mercury Djinn. If doesn't cast Ply it usually does 250-350 overall damage to my party each turn which is too much to keep up with even with two characters spamming Cure Well. I attached a save of my party at this point in the game.

An example fight I had it use Tundra (66 damage to Jenna, 55 damage to Felix) then Drench (56 damage to Jenna, 76 damage to Felix, 50 damage to Sheba) on the first round of combat for a total of 303 damage and it didn't even use its most damaging psynergy nor did it target Felix twice.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 15, 2017, 09:05:07 PM
I'm currently fixing the djinn in this level range. The issue exists because early djinn with 2 turns have a lot of weak moves to compensate the second turn. Weak moves had their base power lowered by 5 or 10 at most, to compensate the MaxPP you had at the level you learn them. At higher level, the MaxPP increases base power by 10 or even 15, which means that those djinn deal 5~10 more damage per spell cast.

EDIT: v1.61a is UP. I can't thank you guys enough for all the feedback i've been receiving these days.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 16, 2017, 08:06:22 AM
I'm gonna keep going with my 1.61 run since I managed to deal with the problematic Mercury Djinn without much trouble once I got Piers and his Shade Djinn. I noticed that the Cave Trolls in Taopo Swap do at least five times as much damage as they have any right to. Attached is a screenshot of level 20 Felix getting horribly overkilled (over 2x his max HP) by a Cave Troll.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 16, 2017, 08:16:20 AM
I'm gonna keep going with my 1.61 run since I managed to deal with the problematic Mercury Djinn without much trouble once I got Piers and his Shade Djinn. I noticed that the Cave Trolls in Taopo Swap do at least five times as much damage as they have any right to. Attached is a screenshot of level 20 Felix getting horribly overkilled (over 2x his max HP) by a Cave Troll.

...v1.61b is up.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: chrisssj2 on June 16, 2017, 11:05:03 AM
I cant believe someone is making a difficulty mod I love it!!
I just only found this mod.
Might it possible to even add a secret/additional boss or only work with with we have?

What's the difference between
Golden Sun: The Broken Seal:
Golden Sun: The Lost Age


This mod is just for golden sun 2 right?
? Broken seal?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 16, 2017, 11:11:44 AM
Might it possible to even add a secret/additional boss or only work with with we have?

ATM i don't know how to do it nor i have plans for that.

Quote
What's the difference between
Golden Sun: The Broken Seal:
Golden Sun: The Lost Age

This mod is just for golden sun 2 right?
? Broken seal?

Broken Seal is Golden Sun 1. The japanese title for GS1 includes "The broken seal" in its name so i use it to make it clear that i'm talking about the 1st game only.
So, mod is for both games.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 17, 2017, 08:05:13 AM
I'm finding that for almost the entirety of the Eastern Sea, Piers sucks in any class besides his base class, which isn't even a great class to begin with. Also, Mercury Djinn are in high demand by Jenna and Sheba so it's hard to justify giving him all the Mercury Djinn when the only great thing about his base class is Prism.

The only thing left I have to do in the Eastern Sea is beat Poseidon and Piers is level 26. The best base damage Mercury Psynergy available to him outside is base class is Ice Horn which is 13 PP and the only way to get it is from the Venus/Jupiter triple element class. The double element classes and his Mars/Jupiter triple element class are even worse, where he's stuck as Froth Sphere (12 PP) until Fiery Blast in the Mars double element class. In fact, he doesn't get anything from any of these three classes that's better than Froth Sphere in any element until Fiery Blast. At level 26, his best base damage psynergy in his Jupiter double element class are Drench (9 PP) and Wind Slash (11 PP), which is terrible. Piers in his base class isn't even as good a warrior as Felix in his base class or double element classes so the only roles for him before getting Fiery Blast or hitting 24 Djinn (for the triple element classes) are party healing from the Venus double element class (which is worse than Wish) or act as a weaker Felix.

Giving him the Cool line instead of either the Douse or Froth lines would help a ton. I'm not sure why Cool was removed from his base class in the first place but he desperately needs it back. My recommendation would be to replace the Douse line with the Cool line on his Jupiter double element class and his Mars/Jupiter triple element class and replace the Froth line with the Cool line on his Mars and Venus double element classes. The Douse line is largely irrelevant for him because Drench is useless by his join time so there's no need for him to have it just for Deluge, and the Froth line is barely better. If for whatever reason Cool has been coded out of the game since it doesn't appear on any class, Prism would work instead since they're very similar.

Edit: More thoughts of TLA thus far. I just beat Poseidon.

The rusty items are pretty bad aside from the Captain's Axe and Dracomace. Usually comparable gear will be available by the time you can forge them so there's no point forging them, especially since they cost a lot. Most of the Eastern Sea rusty items aside from Captain's Axe and Dracomace could probably use some minor buffs to make them worth the trip back to Yallam and the cost of forging.

Poseidon was a really fun and challenging boss, I think I used 2x Ulysses, 2x Judgement, and 2x Thor before he fell. Three turns is no joke. Jenna burned through her entire PP pool of 189 plus some more after I used Ether and she didn't even cast every turn. My setup was all Mercury Djinn on Jenna, all Jupiter Djinn on Felix, all Venus Djinn on Piers, and all Mars Djinn on Sheba. I find no one wants Venus Djinn in TLA so Piers got stuck with them since he gets the Heal line and his other double element classes are really bad. At least in TBS Garet excelled in his Venus double elemental class.

Edit 2: Leda's Bracelet says it gives wind and earth power but it actually gives wind power and earth resist.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 17, 2017, 10:27:52 AM
@Psynergy lines and classes
Outside of base classes, psynergy lines are based on the class' PP multiplier, which represents its proficiency on a mage-like role. The average for warrior-esque classes is thorn/starburst/ray/froth, Psy Champion and Sun champion are Warrior-Mage hybrids, thus gain Whirlwind. Chaos Lord and Sea Lord are horrible at casting and don't go beyond growth/blast/douse/slash. Ninja and General are hybrids as well so they gain up to ~Plasma and Gaia.

So, basically you're telling me that Piers sucks in a role i didn't give him.

Piers in his base class is basically a Garet who can actually cast.
As far as dual classes go i don't think there's anything as sturdy as Protector Piers, the most defensive dual on the second best character on defense.
Radiant Piers is actually good on the offense, and can fall back to Aura if needed.
Sea lord is a less extreme Chaos Lord. He loses a bit of Attack and speed, but is more resilient to statuses and can heal if needed (so i don't get how garet can excel as a Chaos Lord while Piers is bad as a Sea Lord)

@Cool
It was removed while this was still called Balance Age (replaced by Prism in his base class) but now i think i can bring it back if needed. Point is, Piers doesn't have class line that could learn it.

Giving Piers a caster class at this point is going to be difficult. The easiest way to do it would be swapping the Sun Champions and Radiant's PP multiplier, which would affect Piers' Radiant class as well. But I lack Beam in TBS, which is the Mars equivalent of Whirlwind.

@Rusty items
Sad (and strange) to see that Asteria's staff isn't included. I think i'll use it as Jenna's main weapon through the whole western sea. Other stuff mainly depend on when you get them. in the western sea there's an overabundance of weapons so if you go even a bit off course it can happen that you find weaker stuff than what you already have.

@No one wants Venus Djinn in TLA
Miko Jenna is one of my favorite class lines ever, but i understand that lv 26, right before she learns Serpent Fume, is the absolute weakest point for that class line, offensively.

@Leda
Missclick on my part. The description is correct and Leda's already fixed for next release.

Thanks for the feedback!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 17, 2017, 11:21:00 AM
Interesting, I think I better understand what you had in mind for the classes. My party is now level 28 and I'm running base class Jenna, Jupiter double elemental Felix, Venus double elemental Piers, and Mercury double elemental Sheba which has been my most successful setup so far. I basically forced Piers into a weird role where he's my best healer and my second best warrior, since the preferred Mars Djinn are occupied by Jenna who has a fantastic base class, possibly the best out of all eight characters other than maybe Mia. I find it interesting that you like Jenna's Venus double elemental class, since it looks like a straight downgrade from her base class. I liked it in Gondowan when Briar was great but now it just doesn't cut it in terms of offense.

Asteria's Staff is looks alright, I gave her the Corsair's Edge instead but I'm not sure if that was the right call. In retrospect it probably would have been better to use Asteria's Staff instead now that I've decided to keep her in her base class, but for a while she was mostly casting Hail Prism with +water power gear so I didn't value the fire power highly.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 17, 2017, 01:50:23 PM
I find it interesting that you like Jenna's Venus double elemental class, since it looks like a straight downgrade from her base class.
The Miko is a full fledged healer (missing only cure poison and restore) with access to a strong single target psynergy. The only thing she can't do well is support, cause guard is arguably the worst support spell among the 6 buff/debuffs. Heal is way better than Aura and she has Revive, but it's also true that symbiotic dual caster classes gain a huge boost in the endgame thanks to the Big Bang Gloves (Mars/Venus power boost) and Selene's Armlet (Mercury/Jupiter power boost).

Being a healer means she also has better defenses: the Incendiary has subpar Luck, while the Miko is much more resilient to statuses. But that again, is something that becomes more and more relevant by progressing through the game, with instant death attacks and such. Many classes are like this... for example... the Chaos Lord has amazing stats with top tier attack, great defense and HP but a Delude is enough to cripple him.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 19, 2017, 10:51:08 AM
Just beat the Flame Dragons with a level 33-34 party. They destroyed me on my first attempt so I got the Djinn and items from Treasure Isle, Yampi Desert Cave, and Islet Cave then came back. This was an incredibly difficult fight and one of the most fun fights in Golden Sun Reloaded, with only Poseidon being a comparable challenge (and also very fun!). My strategy was to remove all the agility gear from Mia so she would heal after each Flame Dragon attacks once. I had her and Jenna heal two of Felix, Isaac, Garet, and Piers attacked the smaller Flame Dragon with Thunder Mine and Odyssey, rotating them as they got stunned. Ivan and Sheba only showed up to use a PP restoring Djinn or revive someone.

On the other hand, Moapa and Karst and Agatio were disappointingly easy battles. My party was level 29 for Moapa and level 30 for Karst and Agatio. My saves from shortly before these battles should be in the third and second slots of the attached save respectively. The first slot has my party shortly before battling the Flame Dragons but they're actually in Islet Cave.

Just for fun, here are my rankings of the eight adepts. This applies to both boss battles and general use. My current class setup is Worldwaker Ivan, Shogun Isaac, Jonin Garet, Angel Mia, Incendiary Jenna, Jonin Felix, General Piers, and Pure Mage Sheba. The only things I'm not happy about are that Isaac would rather be a Jonin and Ivan would rather be a Pure Mage.

1) Jenna. Her base class is amazing and she does the best physical damage of the four mage adepts. She has relevant offense Psynergy for the entire early-mid game since Cycle Beam is passable even in the Western Sea thanks to the high fire power she has in her base class. Fume is pretty good too though it's not that important. The Aura series is great since Healing Aura and Cool Aura are available before the second and third psynergy in the Heal and Wish series. Favorite class: Incendiary.

2) Mia. She's Jenna-lite. Physical attacks are worthless if unleashes don't trigger though. Trades Fume for Ply which is alright but single-target heals aren't that important late game. Glacier is her version of Cycle Beam. Bad agility can be a problem but she's still really good. Favorite class: Angel.

3) Isaac. Great physical attacker and a decent early healer in his base class. Almost functionally identical to Felix but has a better base class so I give him the edge. No reason to run him as anything other than Psy Champion or Jonin since Jupiter Djinn are not in high demand by other adepts. Well that's not entirely true since it's hard to make both Isaac and Felix Jonins but Shogun is good enough. Favorite class: Psy Champion/Jonin/Shogun.

4) Felix. Same as Isaac but doesn't have Cure in his base class. Favorite class: Psy Champion/Jonin/Shogun.

5) Garet. His base class is okay but he really shines in Chaos Lord and Jonin which fix his agility and improves his already solid attack. His ridiculous defenses are always welcome in harder boss battles. Favorite class: Chaos Lord/Jonin.

6) Sheba. Boon worked wonders early but she kinda sucks in any class that doesn't have party healing because having offensive psynergy being her only notable trait is pretty bad. Terrible at physical attacks, like Mia. Gets the edge over Ivan because her base class is better early. Favorite class: Arcanist/Pure Mage.

7) Ivan. Sheba without Boon. I run him as a pure offense caster which is worthless in boss battles but pretty amazing otherwise. For boss battles in TBS he was relegated to using important Djinn like Flash and Breeze and in TLA boss battles he sits on the bench. Favorite class: Inquisitor/Pure Mage.

8) Piers. Easily the worst of the warrior adepts because his attack stat and his offensive psynergy are both pretty bad until he gets Froth Spiral. His base class looks decent since it gives him Prism and Diamond Berg but there's no way he gets to keep his Mercury Djinn when Mia's base class is too good to pass up and Ivan and Sheba both benefit immensely from them. Favorite class: General/Protector.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 19, 2017, 11:15:32 PM
Thanks for the tips. Seeing how you still won't let go of Angel and Incendiary worries me a bit, as well as the disappointing boss fight you mentioned. I'll also check the dragons cause there shouldn't be THAT much difference from the JL battle against their human form.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on June 20, 2017, 06:34:56 AM
I like Jenna and Mia's base classes best because party healing benefits immensely from elemental power. I gave them all the best fire and water power items respectively and it worked incredibly. Their stats are pretty bad but I don't need them to do damage when I have Felix, Isaac, Garet, and Sheba.

I just beat Balrog and Sentinel with a level 35-37 party and a level 36-38 party respectively. Turns out giving Sheba all the cursed mage items and a Mythril Armlet and Ninja Sandles makes her outdamage Garet with all the cursed warrior items and Ninja Sandles and Felix with the Sol Blade and a bunch of crit items though her low HP means she can't occupy a middle slot safely. I switched her and Ivan's classes for this because Ivan doesn't want to wear Ninja Sandals over Silver Greaves.

Balrog was actually the harder of the two superbosses because of his Stun Jip and high agility. If he stunned my healer before Wish Well or Cool Aura then I could expect party members to go down. I often used Petra and Ground to guarantee he doesn't stun or summon before I can but other than those I mostly focused on attacks with Ker's Weight, Sol Blade, and Darksword with two characters and healing with the other two. It was also annoying when one of Ivan's Mercury Djinn got put on standby since it made him lose Wish.

Sheba was amazing against Sentinel because Soul Doom ignores his high defense and exploits his Venus weakness. I still had to have two healers to make sure she didn't drop. Unlike against Balrog where I used all eight party members, I mostly used Sheba, Jenna, Felix, and Mia since Sheba and Felix have great Venus unleash setups (Garet's Jupiter unleash is bad here and Isaac has an Epicenter/Skull Splitter setup which doesn't work). Sometimes I'd swap Ivan in and have him use Wish Well and Felix Immediately unleash Lull before Sentinel could act, then immediately swap him back out and have Jenna unleash Flash and Felix summon Magaera. Other than that my strategy was mostly attacks with Felix and Sheba and healing with Jenna and Mia.

I attached a save with my party right before the Flame Dragons in the first slot, Balrog in the second slot, and Sentinel in the third slot.

Edit: I beat Star Magician as well, which was the hardest one yet. Anger Balls have relatively high HP so I ignored them until they blew themselves up. Thunder Balls do tons of damage if left unaccounted for but they weren't as high priority as Guardian or Refresh Balls. Guardian Balls annoyingly could take a hit of Armageddon or Soul Doom because of their earth resistance so I had to use an AoE as well to kill one in one turn. Refresh Balls instantly die in one hit of Armageddon, Soul Doom, Epicenter, or Death Leap but sometimes Felix or Sheba would get deluded before attacking making them miss their unleash.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 20, 2017, 09:05:20 PM
Glad to see you're liking the Cursed Mage setup.

About party healing: in this mod the influence of ePower on healing has already been reduced (to 66%) and it's further reduced to 50% for the next release as of v1.62. This way ePower has the same relevance for offense and healing.

That said, Angel Mia is always going to be the best healer in the game, but Incendiary Jenna can only be good at best, cause Aura is inherently weak. Any class with Heal or Wish, be it dual or tri elemental is supposed to fulfill that role better.

I've also fixed a bug about healing: currently any amount of ePower over 200 is ignored so you'll probably notice Mia and Jenna to improve despite the nerf.

Tip: Incendiary Jenna as a healer against Balrog probably wasn't a wise choice. She has subpar Luck and a weakness to Stun to boot. Ditto for Chaos Lords/Samurais against Star Magician.

Edit: v1.62 is UP


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 21, 2017, 12:47:27 PM
All these buffs to single target psynergy effectively buff warriors, no? Any plans to pick a single line per element of AoE, more mage-useful psynergy to give additional effects to? Maybe Volcano, Gaia, Plasma, and Prism?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 21, 2017, 02:53:32 PM
You mean Odissey and the others? The plan was to make them actually useable, cause they were completely overshadowed by unleashes in the endgame, while the first stages (Ragnarok) were just overpowered. Granting EPAs the ability to debuff the target is something i thought a long time ago, but without the ailment attribute it would've been almost useless.

As for mages: currently the only spells that debuff are the Acrobat's Bramble and Thunder Card. Extending the effect to other psynergies has some issues like finding the actual slots for the effects, especially in TBS.

Still, if i ever end up doing that, it's never gonna happen for the strongest spells. So there would be the issue of giving mages low tier spells that debuff as well.

It's not as easy as it was for warriors: they ALL already had some kind of EPA that was useless in the endgame. Mages, especially tri elemental classes, often have just 2-3 very strong offensive spells and then healing and support.

PS: about the "buff" to warriors. I don't really see it that way. I see it more as giving them another role. An unleash setup has been a no brainer for warrior classes since forever, but with the unleash nerf, EPA buff and EPAs that debuff i hope this will change.
At the same time, the mages' endgame improved with the latest change to the PP formula: my lv55 casters gain have PP that range from 400 to 500+, which translates into a BP increase of 50~63, but the highest reduction in BP i've done (as compensation) is 40. If there's someone that's got a straight buff, that's mages.

EDIT: I kinda screwed up healing. I'll work on a fix and release it as soon as it's ready. Fix is already up.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Awec on June 23, 2017, 10:25:17 PM
Love this hack! This has made TBS feel almost like a new experience for me.
I just have a few thoughts:
1. Kraken was a big difficulty spike. It took me quite a few tries and some grinding to beat it, whereas everything up to that point had been relatively easy. It also wasn't great afterwards when I had to deal with the tough encounters in Altmiller without being able to heal at an Inn.
2. Paralyze as a psynergy is almost too powerful. Obviously it doesn't work on bosses but on everything else it removes a lot of the challenge. Maybe make it cost more PP?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 24, 2017, 12:04:35 AM
Thanks for playing the hack, and glad you're enjoying it! Now, let's see...

1. Since you also had difficulties in Altmiller, you might be underleveled.
2. Paralyze is single target and has a base 60% chance to stun. Also it works only with random enemies. IMO it's quite marginal.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on July 01, 2017, 03:42:31 PM
Psychic Rod has stats: +48 Atk, +3 MaxPP, and -0  :JupiterStar: Pwr in 1.62hf.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 02, 2017, 11:07:01 PM
Strange, i clearly remember finding and fixing it.

Well, whatever. v1.62 hotfix2 (TLA only) is up.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: arudjin on July 23, 2017, 06:46:57 AM
Hello Everybody, I just started to use this mod so there are many things i don't know. I am stuck after vault because Ivan doesn't have the whirlwind psynergy. I pushed him to level 9 and still nothing can somebody please help me ? thank you very much


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 23, 2017, 09:47:25 AM
Hi.

Ivan lost Whirlwind in his base class with one of the latest patches so leveling won't solve it.
But just give him a Venus Djinn and you have it back ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: leaf on July 23, 2017, 04:47:45 PM
...why didn't you just give ivan whirlwind as in innate psynergy?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 23, 2017, 05:18:55 PM
...why didn't you just give ivan whirlwind as in innate psynergy?

Cause innate psynergies in TBS can't be changed through the editor. I'd have to repoint the whole section and it's a pain honestly. He has whirlwind in the Oracle class and you are guaranteed to have Flint by the time ivan joins so i can just treat it like growth


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: arudjin on July 23, 2017, 08:07:25 PM
Thank you very much for the info


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rufus on August 17, 2017, 07:43:03 AM
Hi, wanted to comment on this fan-hack - love it! Recently, group I'm with decided to (re)play Golden Sun, I chose to try this alongside RetroAchievements - easily the most fun I've had with  this game. It gives a much needed difficulty boost, while remaining balanced enough to tough it out. 50 battle mode chain was rough, but doable! Loved the changes to the weapon system / classes(added psynergy helped with the classes I went with) Cheers to the maker and keep up the good work! Just started my play-through of TLA with it, lookin' forward to it  :happy:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 17, 2017, 09:48:57 PM
Hi Rufus, glad you're liking it so far! Let me know how TLA goes!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on August 29, 2017, 11:00:14 PM
Hey Caledor! I'm back because I was itching to play some Golden Sun!

I'll do what I did last time with your reloaded hack - Play through both games, and with a Gold file transfer between the two.

As always, I'll let you know if I have any questions or I find any bugs along the way!

Keep up the good work!  :happy:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 29, 2017, 11:25:46 PM
Hi, Chrono, glad to see you back and thanks in advance for your reports!

As a side note, for those that aren't on Discord, check roger's latest patch in the Download section. He's done the amazing job of restoring the missing drum line in the TLA overworld theme (pre-reunion). The patch is obviously compatible with Reloaded so go grab it ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on August 31, 2017, 12:10:37 PM
Heyo! Have not posted here in a while!

I quickly checked the changelog but if some of the following was already discussed in the thread somewhere then disregard it.

Question: Is the Giant's Axe still in TLA? Earth Golems seem to drop Vials now.

Typo: Alecto's Mace has "Unleshes" instead of "Unleashes".

Weird EXP: The Wights under Izumo give a suspiciously generous EXP reward for killing them. Is that on purpose? A group of two Wights and one Earth Golem when killed with effective Djinn gives over 3k EXP. A group with one Wight and one Gressil gives over 1.2 EXP without Djinn kills. And so on.

Thanks!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 31, 2017, 02:31:41 PM
Thanks, MadJak! The fix is up for both Alecto's description and Wights. It was a typo for Wights too... they gave 1151 exp instead of 151.

Giant Axe was removed cause it overlaps with Tartarus Axe (123 and 124 atk).



Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on August 31, 2017, 04:02:02 PM
Cool! Thanks!

Possible suggestion unless it was already discussed or there are problems implementing it:
Mia's Cure Poison upgrades to Remedy which is awesome but Remedy itself disappears from her field Psynergy menu. Sure, you have Piers and items OR you can downgrade her class but I think having Remedy/Cure Poison outside like usual would be practical.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 31, 2017, 10:29:20 PM
There's a limited amount of slots for psynergies and the only way for many classes to make remedy fit was to replace other things. A trade i'm willing to make if all it takes to CP outside of battle is pressing two buttons to downgrade. ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on September 01, 2017, 12:07:43 AM
No, I think they were saying that Remedy should be flagged to work in fields/dungeons as well as battle.  That's just a flag to toggle.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 01, 2017, 12:26:40 AM
That's how i originally wanted it to work, only to find that some effects do nothing outside of battle. I clearly remember having to fix that issue.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on September 07, 2017, 12:41:41 PM
Sure! No problem! If it is not possible then that is fine!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on September 09, 2017, 12:36:40 AM
I remember trying to mess with Remedy and found the same issues. It just doesn't seem to work without tinkering with quite a bit more under the hood.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 14, 2017, 05:51:04 PM
TBS patch updated to v1.62 hf2 to fix an issue with the summons' HP% damage


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on September 15, 2017, 03:13:02 PM
Is there a list of items that were removed just like Giant Axe?
I am curious about Gloria Helm for example. Thanks!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on September 16, 2017, 02:25:43 AM
Hey Caledor,

Just finished up my play-through of GS1, so I'd thought I'd let you know how that went.

The only bug I caught is, well, weird. I'd imagine you can't fix it. Just a side-effect that happens from editing the game's code.

(https://i.imgur.com/QBoEovt.png)

Here is an image of me transferring a Djinn from Isaac to Ivan, nothing seemingly weird here.

(https://i.imgur.com/UnnPOc2.png)

Though, if I tab over to Ivan's stats before actually moving Djinn, you can see the stat changes are completely different from the initial preview. The second picture is actually what will happen. Not sure if this one is in your control, but I'd thought I'd show you regardless.
Edit: I'd like to mention that this happens in more than one place, this is just one example.

That out of the way, here are my thoughts and suggestions.
 
  • Hydros Statue seemed a bit tough, but maybe I just suck? It was a while back but I got wiped quite a few times and didn't really struggle with any bosses for the same length of time as this one.
  • Similarly, Deadbeard seemed too easy, though maybe level 31 was a bit high so it just seemed that way.
  • The change to Vine (not sure when you made it, hadn't played in a while, lol) make a near-useless Djinn extremely valuable. I think it actually might be too strong on Mia/Ivan due to the damage it outputs vs. their attack stat, especially if you consider it's AoE.

I think that about covers my thoughts. Moving on to the Lost Age! Gold Password and all. I'll let you know how it goes!

Good luck in continuing your mod!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fionordequester on September 16, 2017, 07:50:01 AM
I don't remember Hydros a Statue being as deadly and unpredictable as Killer Ape; but it IS definitely very difficult to kill.  It's got a lot of HP, and has a bad habit of dragging things out with repeated Pure Ply castings.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 16, 2017, 09:26:50 AM
@Chrono i tried briefly but i couldn't replicate the bug. Try patching a clean rom again and let me know if it keeps happening. Good luck with TLA!

@MadJak There isn't really a detailed list but they are very few. Another item that can't be found anymore in TLA is the cursed staff. Anyway, if you keep spotting drops that don't behave as you'd expect report them to me, so i can fix the list on the first post. And yes, Gloria Helm was missing from the list as well. It's dropped by Ghost Army in JL.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on September 16, 2017, 03:32:22 PM
@Chrono i tried briefly but i couldn't replicate the bug. Try patching a clean rom again and let me know if it keeps happening. Good luck with TLA!

The first time I caught it, I had trouble replicating it as well, but then when I saw it again I took screenshots because I knew I might not come across it again. Not a huge deal in terms of a bug though!

I don't remember Hydros a Statue being as deadly and unpredictable as Killer Ape; but it IS definitely very difficult to kill.  It's got a lot of HP, and has a bad habit of dragging things out with repeated Pure Ply castings.

Killer Ape did give me some trouble, but I just remember Hydros Statue spamming Aqua Breath and wiping my team, even with a 2 wish setup.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on September 17, 2017, 01:11:35 PM
What is the intended behavior of the Olympus Rage unleash?
Because it seems to be capable of instant death. That is alright but... the effect also just worked on Dullahan. Makes him really easy if it connects, haha.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 17, 2017, 01:30:24 PM
Yeah, it has the instant death property but it shouldn't work on enemies with 40+ luck. i just checked the ailment table and it's correct, so i don't know what's the cause atm. i'll have to investigate.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Rolina on September 21, 2017, 05:12:11 PM
Check dullahan's resistances maybe?  Might have typoed them and accidently made him vulnerable to it... :/


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on September 25, 2017, 07:48:32 PM
Unless you fix it in the meantime, I will try using other instant death unleashes on him if I have the time. Although I guess it does not matter what weapon you have? It is about some fault in his resistance... Dunno.

Question: How concerned are you with mistakes or typos in the script? There are a few mistakes I spotted at the very end when using the Mind Ribbon on Prox villagers but since this is mostly a gameplay patch,  I suspect script mistakes were always there.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 26, 2017, 01:38:20 AM
Unless you fix it in the meantime, I will try using other instant death unleashes on him if I have the time. Although I guess it does not matter what weapon you have? It is about some fault in his resistance... Dunno.
Please do. Atropos' Rod, Condemn... or even other effects that he's supposed to be immune to, like poison or death curse if you want. For most effects there are 2 separate istances, one with a lower trigger rate that is attached to damaging abilities (which means that using atropos rod or herculean axe is the same thing for the purposes of this test), and another one paired with effect only abilities (condemn).

Quote
Question: How concerned are you with mistakes or typos in the script? There are a few mistakes I spotted at the very end when using the Mind Ribbon on Prox villagers but since this is mostly a gameplay patch,  I suspect script mistakes were always there.
Ignoring changes for sake of consistency, i haven't touched dialogues for a simple reason: i don't play with the english version. So I won't fix anything on my own but if you spot a mistake and ask for a fix, 99% of the time my reply will be "sure, why not" and you'll have it fixed in the following release. Maybe just copy paste the sentence or provide a screen when reporting so i can find it easily in the editor.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on September 28, 2017, 05:45:17 PM
I think I found a bug in TLA.

Using Mud on Orochi(?) (The Serpent in Gaia Rock) does nothing to him. No damage or agility dropped. I've done it 3 separate times and nothing.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 28, 2017, 09:57:13 PM
Agility drop can fail. It has a base 130% success rate though. The damage part was a bug instead and is already fixed for the next release.
@MadJak I just checked the ailment formula and everything seemed to work. Let me know if something strange happens again.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on September 29, 2017, 01:21:06 AM
Cool. I figured it was something similar, I've seen the agility fail but the damage part was where I thought it might be a bug.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on October 03, 2017, 07:16:40 PM
Alright!

I attached screens of the possible script mistakes. They sound wrong or awkward at least to me.

As for Dullahan...

Here is a very quick video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81beX3Jgtto

Once I have more time, I will try other status effects as you suggested but here is the Olympus Rage bug for now. I was able to reproduce it.
A couple of notes: No other patches were used. Just yours (current version). The recorded attempt is after NUMEROUS such attempts with the guys constantly attacking until Dullahan wiped them out. Then I restarted and did it again and again. So it is rare but possible... Hm.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 03, 2017, 10:45:42 PM
Thanks and please also attach the save you used to make that video so i can check it myself on the same conditions.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on October 06, 2017, 03:51:02 PM
Sorry for the late reply.

I actually used the same save I uploaded here in the thread in the past when I was playing the hack for the first time.
Here you go! :D
http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2779.msg47030#msg47030

I am already saved after Dullahan on the current one (where the glitch happened for the first time) so I downloaded that one.

Actually, this old save is RIGHT before him and you only need to save edit yourself four "Stellar" Axes or such!
I just used it with the current version of the patch and could reproduce the bug.

I hope that helps!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 07, 2017, 09:56:38 PM
Found and fixed the bug (for next release). Don't know if you're on discord, but i'll still leave an explanation here for future reference.

The root of the issue is that the RNG function generates a number from 0 to 99 and uses a >= to check.

Basically even if an effect has a flat 0% success rate, there's a 1% chance that the RNG generates 0, 0>=0 is true and the effect connects. This also implies that every chance is artificially increased by 1% cause 1% connects with 0 and 1 and 99% always connects.

Thanks for the report and for the saves, this was quite the tricky bug. ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MadJak91 on October 10, 2017, 07:28:38 PM
Cool! So if people want a cheap Dullahan battle, now it is the last call ;D

And thanks for the explanation! Makes total sense.
Curious: Can the issue happen in the vanilla game as well or did you change the RNG function and now found the bug? I am thinking if it can be exploited on virtually any enemy. For the sake of theory, really.

I guess that completed my playthroughs for the time being but I will be on the lookout for more stuff if possible.
Thanks for the hack!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 11, 2017, 08:28:01 AM
I don't know how if the bug is in the vanilla game as well, cause i always used squirtle's simple effects patch. It's possible that the vanilla game somehow took into account the >= and acted accordingly, but Squirtle is more qualified than me to answer. It's a yes or no question though: if it works even once, it will work on anyone.

Still, the fact that an Instant Death on dullahan never been pointed out in 15+ years makes me think the bug was introduced later.

Quote
Thanks for the hack!
You're welcome, hope you enjoyed it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 14, 2017, 07:21:54 PM
v1.63 is up, it contains the bug fixes and other tweaks that have been discussed here recently, like the 1% ailment bug and the fix to Killer Ape.

I also considered for some time how to tweak debuffs, and in the end i went for a small % increase to the 2 stages debuffs (ST and Djinns) for the midgame and changing the lategame EPAs (Odissey, Unleashes) to be 1 stage decreases but with a much higher base chance, from 70% to 90%.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on October 25, 2017, 04:05:45 PM
Hey Cal. Nice to see this is still reasonably active. You ever do your full run-through of the games?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 26, 2017, 09:41:35 AM
Hey Cal. Nice to see this is still reasonably active. You ever do your full run-through of the games?

Hey Varden. I finished TBS plenty of times but i still haven't managed to do TLA once. My last playtrough stopped at Naribwe.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on October 26, 2017, 07:59:07 PM
Hey Caledor, I'm finally winding down on TLA. While I do have one or two bugs or other proposed changes, I'll save those for the end. The main point of this post is about the classes and their tweaks. I've been heavily experimenting with them and I have some changes to suggest. Obviously it's your mod so you can do what you want with the information at the end of the day. I'm going to try my best to make this formatting not so terrible on the eyes, forgive me if it is.

I would like to point out all my characters are level 42. I wanted to make sure I knew what the entire class consisted of psyenergy-wise before I suggested changes. Secondly, I know there is a limit of what you can put on a class (I believe it's 16) so I've kept that in mind with the changes I'm purposing.

Time to get into the nitty-gritty.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy Knight/Saint Knight ( :Piers: - :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :JupiterStar: :JupiterStar: :JupiterStar: :JupiterStar: :JupiterStar:)

Proposed Change:
Switch out Plume Edge with Odyssey/Tyrfing.
Reasoning:
This class being a tri-elemental, actually has no Venus representation at all, aside from Revive. Swapping out Plume Edge with something Venus-based fixes this issue and makes it more similar to Paladin/Templar, where there is an offensive set of psyenergy for Venus and Mars, along with Plume Edge.
(Paladin is :Isaac: or  :Felix: -  :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MarsStar: :MarsStar: :MarsStar: :MarsStar: )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fateweaver/Divine Mage ( :Ivan: or :Sheba: - :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MarsStar: :MarsStar: :MarsStar: :MarsStar: )

Proposed Change:
Switch out Bind with Raise.
Reasoning:
The current identity of this class focuses on healing and buffing the team, with minimal offensive psyenergy. Bind doesn't really seem to fit what this class is trying to achieve in battle. Raise brings a bit more Mars to this class (which is currently only seen through Guard and Protect) and fits better with the healer/support role.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protector/Paragon ( :Isaac: or :Felix: - :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: )

Proposed Change:
Add Remedy (Removing Cure Poison and Restore), as well as a set of Mercury-based offensive psyenergy. (Such as Froth, Froth Sphere, and Froth Spiral.)
Reasoning:
This class honestly just feels somewhat incomplete. It's lacking a lot of late-game power that a lot of other 2 :NeutralStar:/7 :NeutralStar: classes have. I believe you only want Remedy on a hybrid of Venus and Mercury classes, and this class fits that mold. Removing Cure Poison and Restore means there are 3 open slots, which would be perfect for a Mercury-based offensive psyenergy, since the class currently only has Plume Edge, Thorn, Briar, and Nettle as it's offensive psyenergies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protector/Paragon ( :Piers: - :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :VenusStar: :MercuryStar: :MercuryStar: )

Proposed Change:
Add Remedy (Removing Cure Poison and Restore), as well as a set of Venus-based offensive psyenergy. (Such as Thorn, Briar, and Nettle.)
Reasoning:
This one kind of goes without saying, since it's basically just a flip-flop of the proposed class change right above.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is all I have for class-related discussion, moving on to other bugs/changes:

  • Getting a Salamander Tail from the Hammet transfer quest instead of an Orichalcum just feels so bad. I know why you made the change as per your original post and wanting the Dark Matter and Orichalcum to be post-teleport, but the reward almost doesn't seem worth-while now. Maybe a decent weapon/armor or even like a stat-up item would feel better than a Salamander Tail.
    Edit:I will mention this even though it's kind of petty- It makes more sense in terms of lore for Hammet to send bars of gold instead of a Salamander's Tail, but I get that doesn't really fit very well for the balance you're trying to create. My original opinion still stands, though.
  • Not sure if this is intended or not, becuase I'm not too sure how it works in vanilla, but you can only use Clotho's Distaff if it's equipped.
  • Have you ever tried fixing or looking into why the transfer event with Feizhi breaks upon entering Champa early? Not sure if you even have control over that I just thought it was worth mentioning to me because it happened this playthrough... :irate:
  • Lastly, I'm playing on Hard, (I'm sure you're only really balancing the game on Normal), but the Twin Dragons fight before "activating" the Mars Lighthouse is INSANE I had to grind 10 levels before my team was up to snuff. Not to mention not having that last Mars Djinn is more of a handicap then you might think...

Anyways, that's all from me! I'll be stopping by frequently as always to see how things are progressing with the mod. Thanks for making the mod again! Good luck!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 26, 2017, 09:39:16 PM
Hey Chrono, thanks for the feedback. Let's see what we've got here.

Holy Knight
I would've probably given Odissey to it if it wasn't for a very specific design choice. There are 4 Tri-elemental classes for each character that can be divided into 2 sets. Those with 3 stages (3Tri) and those with 2 (2Tri). I "assigned" each class an element to be its main while giving 2Tri classes 2 Symbiotic elements corresponding with those of the characters that had access to it and the other 2 to the 2Tri. This rule was self enforced to try to avoid redundancy.

So, for Isaac/Felix/Garet it goes like this: Venus/Mars for the 2Tri (Leader/Shogun) and Jupiter/Mercury in the 3Tri (Ninja/Paladin). Same for Piers: He's Mercury so Mercury/Jupiter are the focus for Holy Knight and Archon respectively. Long story short, Paladin and Holy Knight are bound to have a Mercury oriented main offense. For the Holy Knight it's more likely that i'll change either Froth or Ply to Thorn or Cure, or even nothing: after all its caster equivalent is the Pure Mage, which has only Revive as Venus too so it's not really strange.

Fateweaver
Quote
The current identity of this class focuses on healing and buffing the team, with minimal offensive psyenergy.
I simply disagree. Fateweaver is one of the best damage dealers in the entire roster due to Punishment; its main focuses are offense and buffing with minimal healing support (Single Target only). Giving it Raise is the worst thing i could possibly do balance-wise (full buff suite, best offense and revive is too much). Bind is there mostly as filler cause i thought it fit with the theme. Also, due to what i explained above, elements are imbalanced on purpose in 2tri classes, and the non-symbiotic element is often the shafted one.

Paragon
This is a close call but IIRC this class has only 2 offenses (ST EPA and MT psynergy) cause it's much more healing oriented.

Hammet Transfer
Going to Salamander Tail was literally me picking the fastest route: changing the reward for another one of the same class that belonged to that state of the game. So options are open here.

Clotho's Distaff
This is intended cause Clotho doesn't break when used outside of battle, effectively allowing for free full healing. The Sprit Ring received the same treatment for the same reason.

Champa bug
This is news to me and something that i'll have to investigate.

Hard Difficulty
Yep, i stated many times over the years that i'd love to tweak the multipliers for hard mode. I never played it myself but if you consider that right now Normal is more or less the same as vanilla HM, you've basically applied Hard twice which is simply insane.

Hope this makes some sense for you, i'll be looking forward for your final report. If you still have some doubts don't hesitate and write them! ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on October 27, 2017, 02:10:53 AM
Okay, got it. I see what you are saying with Holy Knight's direction overall, and it makes much more sense when you put it that way.

Fateweaver's I disagree with, and my original thoughts stand, because this class comes off as more support to me. I can respect your direction, because there is merit to what you are saying.

Paragon(s) I guess I should have drawn more comparisons between other classes, let me look at some other ones you've created and see how other healers are treated, I'll have to re-evaluate it and report back.

Edit: Mia's Druid class is very similar to what I proposed with the Paragon changes. She has Cures, Wishes, Revive, Remedy, Gaias, and Froths. Though she was probably designed this way because she was innately designed as a caster, and not an attacker, like most of the male cast.

As for the bugs and stuff:

  • I'll have to think on Salamander Tail and see if I can come up with a suitable replacement to recommend for you.
  • The Champa Bug you can just google for more information on it, I think it's basically if you visit Champa before Briggs returns, it writes a flag incorrectly that the Feizhi event is completed, and thus the event never plays.
  • Honestly I've had almost no trouble with Hard Mode overall except for Djinn fights, and well, that Dragon Fight I just mentioned. I figured out quickly that you can hard reset to stun and poison the Djinn, the fights are winnable most of the time. Worth noting I haven't even attempted any of the four superbosses yet, though.
  • Another Edit:I figured out some more information about the Clotho's Distaff. You made Spirit Ring so it can't be used outside of battle, and I completely agree with that change. Though it can still be used in battle, even when not equipped. This, is fine, but Clotho's Distaff doesn't follow the same properties. Well, that's what I thought until I realized there clearly is some sort of bug here. Clotho's Distaff can be used even if it's not equipped, as long as the person holding it is eligible to equip it. Example: Jenna is wielding a Masamune, but is just holding a Clotho's Distaff. She can use the Clotho's Distaff's effect. Garet is wielding a Darksword, and is also just holding a Clotho's Distaff. He cannot use the Clotho's Distaff effect.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 27, 2017, 11:25:07 AM
So champa bug is present in vanilla as well?

About Clotho: isn't that true for every item that is equippable and useable?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on October 27, 2017, 03:22:59 PM
The Champa bug is in vanilla, yes. That's why I said I don't know if it was even if your power to fix it.

Clotho: I'm honestly not sure actually. Probably so, that's just the first item I've come across where I tried to use it in battle.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 27, 2017, 07:58:55 PM
Clotho: I'm honestly not sure actually. Probably so, that's just the first item I've come across where I tried to use it in battle.

Perhaps i worded myself poorly, but what i wanted to say is that i knew of that behavior and that's no bug for me, cause that's how it always worked.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on November 01, 2017, 10:46:20 PM
Super late reply, but now I agree with how this works, the item's actives and stuff. Just took a little while to wrap my head around it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on December 29, 2017, 08:57:09 PM
Many ways to check: open patched and unpatched rom with Atrius' editor, open both roms with a hex editor and do a compare...
In game you can look for basic things after reading about at the changes made (in the opening post): for TLA, Felix's base class having a different name is a dead giveaway.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on January 02, 2018, 01:14:44 AM
Something i should have done years ago: posting a ton of .sav files.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on January 02, 2018, 01:16:08 AM
Some more


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on January 02, 2018, 01:53:56 AM
Only allowed 4 attachments per post


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 02, 2018, 12:21:06 PM
Try to zip a bunch of them, they'd still be small enough to fit in one attchment. Thanks anyway, they'll be useful for testing purposes.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on January 03, 2018, 11:45:35 AM
I gave Reloaded another go and it's just as fun as I remember. Not much to say about TBS since it's a simpler game, except it'd be nice if Mia could get Break at lvl25 or 26 instead of 27, because from my experience Break is needed to reliably beat Deadbeard and without it he will massacre your party after a couple of Impact casts. I am pretty sure I could have beat him earlier if I had Break earlier but I level-ground my party from around lvl25 until Mia hit lvl27 because I needed Break. My favorite class setup was Ivan and Mia in base classes and Isaac and Garet as Chaos Lords. This allowed for better defense rotations since I could have Ground, Granite, and Flash all on Garet instead of split between Isaac and Garet and with Mia's Wish Well I had little difficulty surviving. Ivan's role was unleashing Djinn and summoning Thor since Jupiter Djinn have great utility Djinn with Breeze, Zephyr, Kite, and Luff all being amazing. Also Chaos Lords are surprisingly good casters late game in TBS thanks to Fiery Blast and Wild Growth.

I've always liked TLA more since it has more interesting choices with class setups due to early Djinn imbalance, eight characters, tri-element classes being useful, and class-changing items. I still struggled in Yampi Desert and the nearby overworld, as well as all of Gondowan, but I was probably severely underlevelled with my average level around 15-16 by the time I recruited Piers. Briggs is a good fight, with all three adepts burning through a majority of their PP pool by the end. In the Eastern Sea, my zone order was Aqua Rock, Tundaria Tower, Gaia Rock, Ankohl Ruins. Of these, I found Aqua Rock and Ankohl Ruins relatively easy, Tundaria Tower brutal (in a good way), and Gaia Rock in the middle. I'm pretty sure you're supposed to do Gaia Rock before Tundaria Tower but I really wanted Ether so I did Tundaria Tower first. Avimander and Poseidon are still good fights, not much new to say about them. Avimander may be a bit on the easy side though.

In the Western Sea, Moapa and his Knights are still trivially easy. The only scary thing they do is Bramble Seed and similar which are rare. Karst and Agatio are also pretty easy compared to the Flame Dragons. If the Flame Dragons are intended to be fought after looting Treasure Isle, Yampi Desert Cave, and Islet Cave and getting a near endgame setup then their difficulty is in a good spot. After getting all the Djinn and items I need, I used the following team setup for Balrog, Star Magician, and Sentinel in that order (haven't fought Dullahan yet as he'll probably require a different setup focused on two-element classes). My party was level 34-36 before Balrog and now they're level 37-38.

Jonin Isaac: Best physical class alongside Chaos Lord but doesn't suck at casting. Low luck is an issue at times, most notably during the Balrog and Star Magician fights where he, Garet, and Felix kept getting stunned/deluded/sealed, but otherwise the class is fantastic. He runs an unleash setup with, Sol Blade, Mythril Helm, Riot Gloves, Valkyrie Mail, and Ninja Sandals.

Jonin Garet: He would have worked better as a Shogun since he isn't unleashing and he's focusing Venus and Mars power and they have better physical attack psynergy for these elements but Jonin is a surprisngly decent caster despite being a physical class. An unleash setup would make him a worse version of Isaac and Felix since the cursed items and Valkyrie Mail are occupied so he has a semi-caster setup with Alecto's Mace, Millenium Helm, Big Bang Gloves, Xylion Armor, and Dragon Boots.

Fury Ivan: Despite the class's high attack stat it sucks at physical attacks (Tisiphone Edge is Venus, the only element not included in this class) and he's too low level for Spark Plasma and Pyroclasm. Currently he's the weakest member of my party but he can still be useful by casting Impact and unleashing against enemies with high defense or Jupiter weakness. He runs a caster unleash setup with Lachesis' Rule, Berserk Circlet, Mythril Armlet, Mythril Clothes, and Ninja Sandals.

Angel Mia: Best healing class in the game (or will be once she finally learns Pure Wish haha). Agility is awful but can in your favor during boss fights if you are using two healers. She can unleash Shade or Balm without messing up her class if she doesn't need to heal that turn. Ice Missle shreds random encounters thanks to her insane 224 Mercury power. Her setup is for maximizing Mercury power with Clotho's Distaff, Psychic Circlet, Selene's Armlet, Triton's Ward, and Dragon Boots.

Jonin Felix: I decided that the difference between Darksword and Excalibur unleash setups is bigger than the difference between Ker's Weight and Lachesis' Rule unleash setups so Felix gets the Cleric's Ring. He runs an unleash setup with, Darksword, Fear Helm, Terror Shield, Stealth Armor, and Ninja Sandals.

Radiant Miko Jenna: This class is better than I gave it credit for in the past. I used to hate how it gets stuck at Briar for so long but once I learned that unleashing Mud is pretty good the class felt a lot better. Mars power is completely irrelevant since she isn't a high enough level for Dragon Fume. Too bad Ker's Weight is cursed since not using it is a 10 Venus power loss but that's not a huge deal. Her setup is for maximizing Venus power with Nebula Wand, Psychic Circlet, Big Bang Gloves, and Mysterious Robe.

Pure Mage Sheba: She's too low level for Freeze Prism and Spark Plasma but she's still a solid healer. Only significant advantage she has over Mia is agility and Revive but both of those are important at times.

Dragontamer Piers: I don't really like his class options for physical attacks since he will never measure up to a Jonin but Dragontamer is an awesome jack-of-all-trades class with solid physical damage, a party heal, a revive, a decent area damage psynergy, and Impact. It doesn't do any of these things particularly well but having someone so flexible is great. He runs a weird hybrid setup with Herculean Axe, Millenium Helm, Riot Gloves, Xylion Armor, and Ninja Sandals. Tisiphone Edge and Dragon Boots would possibly better uses of those slots but having a 57% unleash chance isn't awful and he's still a good caster with the rest of his gear.

Balrog was a fun and moderately challenging fight since he kept stunning my Jonins (Felix has 9 luck haha). Moloch was a serious issue since it gutted my party's agility allowing him to act twice before any of my adepts could act, which was a disaster. The trick I found was to unleash Zephyr a ton to counteract this. Whenever I really needed him to not summon something I had Jenna unleash Petra. He also sometimes burned a lot of Djinn of an element, disabling party heal psynergy for a while, so I had to swap my healers around as well. It was pretty hectic swapping stunned adepts in and out but overall it wasn't too difficult after I figured out the key Djinni to use.

Star Magician's fight was harder since he kept deluding and sealing my adepts. Shuriken worked wonders against the Guardian and Refresh Balls but my Jonins can't cast it when they're sealed which happened a ton thanks to their awful luck stat. One unleash from Isaac or Felix would drop a Refresh Ball and two would drop a Guardian Ball but they can't unleash when deluded. Because of the constant statuses, Tonic and Salt were key Djinni aside from the usual Flash, Shade, Granite, Aroma, and Ether. Star Magician was probably the hardest of the three superboss I fought since it's hard to even be able to damage him in the first place and I can't afford to take a turn of no damage dealing if there's a Refresh Ball.

Sentinel was surprisingly the easiest superboss of the three I fought since he's the most 'fair'. He's slow, he won't mess with my Djinn, he won't use any disables, and he won't summon allies. Isaac and Felix were the only ones doing damage to the boss since they were my only good unleashers. Ivan could have been decent if I gave him Atropos' Rod but I forgot to bring one. In retrospect I should have swapped Felix's Darksword with Tisiphone Edge but I forgot to do that was well. Even with Felix and Isaac's crazy physical setups, Sentinel's defense shot through the roof after a couple casts of Guard so I needed Kindle/Forge/Impact to balance this out. Fortunately, all my adepts aside from Jenna, Mia, and Sheba have access to Impact which help Felix and Isaac deal enough damage. Sadly Sentinel loves to use Break (while being immune to Break himself) so I had to keep reapplying Impact but overall he wasn't too hard. He occasionally one-rounded a few of my adepts but I have enough access to reviving that this wasn't a major issue.

Attached is a file with saves right before each of these superbosses.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on January 03, 2018, 12:43:13 PM
Based on my experiences during my two playthroughs, I have some suggestions for some item and class changes.

Items

Dragon Skin items suck except the boots. Usually you end up with enough adepts in classes that can use the relevant psynergy which aren't even that important aside from boss battles. I recommend adding elemental resistances or some other stats to make these worth using since the psynergy is not good enough.

Most weapons from early forgeable (not rusty) items aren't very good compared to the armors and even if they are good, they are quickly replaced, like Sylph Rapier vs Lightning Sword or Murakamo.

Golem Core items aside from Titan Gloves are pretty bad for the time you get them. For instance Chronos Mail is worse than Dragon Scales which you get much earlier.

Berserk Circlet should give attack (around 20-30) instead of or in addition to the PP in order to make the Fury and Valkyrie classes actually work as physical attackers. I'll explain more when I talk about those classes.

I changed my mind about the cursed mage items from my previous playthrough. They are good but they aren't good enough to justify the Cleric's Ring when Lachesis' Rule is almost as good for unleash setups. Comparing Dark Robe to Xylion Armor is pretty sad considering Dark Robe just has 5 more of each power in exchange for 5 defense and not being cursed. Sure elemental power isn't that great on warrior adepts compared to mage adepts but really mage adepts don't need more than one or two elemental powers and +25 power +40 resist options exist for each element as well as Iris Robe.

Any hope for a new endgame quality mace or light blade? There is only one endgame quality weapon light blade and two endgame quality maces (Tisiphone Edge, Rising Mace, and Alecto's Mace, and Rising Mace's attack stat is pretty bad for endgame) which severely limits the options for the Fury and Valkyrie classes and warrior adept semicaster builds.

Classes

I mentioned this in my previous post but it'd be awesome if Break would be learned a couple levels earlier. It only really matters for the Deadbeard fight and it's not very fun to level grind just for Break.

I don't really understand how Fury and Valkyrie are supposed to work. They appear to be physical classes but they just don't work as such. Firstly, compared to an Excalibur unleash setup with Riot Gloves, Tisiphone Edge, Rising Mace, and Alecto's Mace lose 28, 28, and 20 attack respectively before scaling (since you need Mythirl Armlet over Riot Gloves) and Excalibur doesn't even give as much attack as Sol Blade, Darksword, or Herculean Axe. Jenna has a decent personal attack stat but Valkyrie's 155% mod is abysmal. I'm not seeing what she brings to the table compared to Holy Knight Piers. Fury is a bit more interesting, since it seems pretty similar to the Inquisitor class but with a bunch of attack and Planetery tacked on. Ivan can only use Tisiphone edge which sucks because he will have no Venus power. Alecto's Mace seems decent on Sheba and Mia but their low personal attack stat combined with the low stats on their items and the weak 160% mod on the class makes them very bad at physical attacks. My recommendation is to reduce the PP modifier and increase the attack modifier of these classes to 175% or so, in addition to adding an attack stat buff to the Berserk Circlet in order to make these classes function as physical attackers. As they are now, their Plume Edge and Planetary psynergies are useless and their better off as a pure caster or a Lachesis' Rule/Atropos' Rod unleasher.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on January 04, 2018, 11:27:10 PM
Did you make a new game for this mod? iirc Caledor did some tweaking on innate psyenergies and things don't work properly if you don't start a new file on the patched rom.

I have no idea why you may have this issue though, consider I exclusively played on the latest version and didn't have that problem.

A temporary fix: You can hack a Frost Gem in to your party. :P


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 05, 2018, 03:31:11 PM
@bpat
those are all excellent suggestions and there might be enough material for a new release. Especially on the Valkyrie/Fury part and the lack of endgame light blades. Most midgame items are just too hard to salvage instead. There's simply a lot of stuff into a small time frame, it's really no wonder you can't enjoy every single piece as much as you'd want to before it gets outclassed.

@zadiel
As chrono said, Piers now has frost innately, and innate psynergies are distributed the moment you start a new game. if you patch your game and hit continue piers will lose Frost as it isn't in his base class anymore.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fox on January 05, 2018, 03:56:33 PM
Quote
As chrono said, Piers now has frost innately, and innate psynergies are distributed the moment you start a new game. if you patch your game and hit continue piers will lose Frost as it isn't in his base class anymore.
Off chance this can be remedied by resetting the innate Psynergy every time you load a file? = Sounds like I could make a patch for general use.


Example - I'm thinking:

if (does not have Psynergy)
{
    give Psynergy
}

(And flag checks for the Rock Psynergy.)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 05, 2018, 04:04:24 PM
Would fix the psynergy issue, but it wouldn't remedy the broken stats (especially Luck) grow differently from the vanilla game. I'd rather keep it as it is then: a reminder that you'd be better off starting anew.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fox on January 05, 2018, 04:26:16 PM
Good point. It might be better to start anew, yeah.


While there could be a way to partially fix the stats issue? (Only somewhat.) I really should take another look at your hack(s)... If enough of the game was played that you would have gotten an extreme advantage in level # or something... then it most certainly wouldn't be recommended.

I'm thinking:
tempVar = Current level value.... (For each char)
Set cur level value to 0 for each char (I think)...
And then call the level up function with tempVar to level that many times.
Call the recalculate stats function (So djinn/class/item stats are counted.)

I'm assuming stat-boosting items could also be checked? (Check treasure flags for if obtained, and artifacts for if dropped. (When it is an artifact) .... If it is assumed you used them, the items could always be re-added to a character/shop without putting them in as stats.)

It might be better to start anew, yeah.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 05, 2018, 11:22:07 PM
Regarding bpat's suggestions. After a bit of analysis here's what i came up with regarding the endgame.

- There will be a strong Jupiter-based Light Blade. No new items though. A few midgame blades will be moved around to have 1 strong endgame Jupiter LB. Tisiphone might even drop to second best.
- Berserker Circlet will also boost attack. Probably by 20.
- Dark Robe will probably be boosted to +30 power to all.
- Classes will see minimal or no change at all.

About the midgame: a few elemental resistances might be fine for the dragon equipment.
If there is to be a change regarding Golem Core's equipment, it will be Chronos Mail. I doubt weapons will be touched.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: karmaepsilon on January 06, 2018, 09:28:00 AM
Is there a list of the changes to levels you learn certain Psyenergies at for the existing classes? I'm not seeing Death Plunge as a Ninja and I'm already at 20   :Isaac: :MarsSet: :JupiterSet:
And do Seer classes no longer get Growth?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 06, 2018, 11:39:40 AM
Is there a list of the changes to levels you learn certain Psyenergies at for the existing classes? I'm not seeing Death Plunge as a Ninja and I'm already at 20   :Isaac: :MarsSet: :JupiterSet:
And do Seer classes no longer get Growth?
You can check psynergy sets with the class doc linked in the opening post and learning levels by opening the modded rom with Atrius' editor.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: karmaepsilon on January 06, 2018, 01:03:15 PM
Is there a list of the changes to levels you learn certain Psyenergies at for the existing classes? I'm not seeing Death Plunge as a Ninja and I'm already at 20   :Isaac: :MarsSet: :JupiterSet:
And do Seer classes no longer get Growth?
You can check psynergy sets with the class doc linked in the opening post and learning levels by opening the modded rom with Atrius' editor.
Ah it's listed under Jonin whereas I've just become so used to it being listed as Ninja in other places. That last part seems inconvenient but alright
Sidenote: Oh gods y'all cranked Toadonpa's HP up a lot. Could not win that attrition war. (I like it, gonna have to actually grind a bit for once)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on January 06, 2018, 06:44:11 PM
Hydros Statue has me a bit perplexed. Can't seem to poison the bugger and Ply-usage makes me sad.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 07, 2018, 02:29:40 AM
Changelog for v1.65b

Classes tweaked: Ninja, Valkirie, all Piers' tri-elemental

Corsair's Edge renamed to Sidereal Edge
Phaeton's Blade is now the strongest light blade (165 atk, x2.2 unleash)
Tisiphone Edge slightly weakened (-4 atk), Rising Mace improved
Pirate Sabre weakened to old Corsair's edge level
Sidereal Edge improved to old Phaeton's Blade level
Acheron's Grief multiplier increased to 2.2 but is non-elemental
Dark Robe boosts elemental power by 30
Berserker Circlet also boosts attack by 20. Unleash bonus lowered to +5%
Demonic Circlet boosts PP by 40, PP regen lowered to 5/turn
Mace's and Firebrand's unleashes boosted : +0.1 to every multiplier
Dragon's Mail now boosts HP & Criticals
Chronos Mail also resists earth and improves luck; hp bonus lowered
Erinyes Tunic bonus to crits increased
Dragon's Robe now boosts Fire power & res and replenishes PP
Dragon Shield now boosts Fire & Water resist
Swapped elemental boost for ailment bonus on warrior's cursed gear
Tweaked Millenia Helm & Alastor's Hood

Treasure changes:
Corsair's Edge in Lemuria -> Pirate Sabre
Pirate Sabre in Western Sea -> 500 Coins
Phaeton's Blade in J. Lighthouse -> Sidereal Edge
Orichalcum chest in Anemos Sanctum -> Phaeton's Blade

Djinn:
Mud and Chill swapped places

Explanation:
Originally you found a light blade in lemuria and then one immediately after acquiring Grind. Since those are too close to each other, I removed the Western sea one (replaced with coins) to make the Lemuria blade live a bit longer and create an endgame Jupiter Light Blade.

NB: due to the changes to treasure chests and djinn (especially djinn) you can't just upgrade v1.63 to v1.65 whenever you want. You have two things to look out for that might ruin your playthrough.
1st. You MUSTN'T upgrade when you have only one djinn among Mud and Chill, or you'll permanently lose the other one. Either before acquiring one of the two or after you have both.
2nd. In addition to the above statement, it is strongly recommended that you upgrade either before acquiring Phaeton's Blade in Jupiter Lighthouse OR after obtaining Darkmatter from Anemos Sanctum.


The reason behind the second point is that Phaeton's blade has been moved into the (former) Darkmatter chest in Anemos Sanctum and its strength has increased accordingly. That point is to avoid ending up with a very strong weapon too early or with two Phaeton's.

All things considered the best moments to upgrade midgame are either before Mud/Chill, whatever comes first, or after both Mud and Chill are acquired but before Lemuria, where you acquire the Pirate Sabre/Corsair's Edge, the first of the rearranged weapons.


v1.63 can be found in the attachment for backup.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on January 07, 2018, 08:14:43 AM
Hydros can easily put out 150+ damage on any single adept and I have enough djinn for 1 wish user in the fight. I can't tell how I'm supposed to win a damage race with this behemoth that I can't poison, has Break, and heals itself.

Yeah, I can't do 247 damage a turn and Hydros just casually heals it off with one of its two moves. Making no progress in this fight.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 09, 2018, 06:03:41 PM
TLA patch updated to v1.63 plus. Changelog and download link are in the message above.

@varden. ATM my opinion, after reading other people reports and from my memories of when i fought it, is that Hydros statue is challenging but winnable. It just poses the right amount of challenge. So i'm afraid i need more than a written report about this one. Either a save, or a video.

EDIT 10/1/2018: I completely forgot the promised changes to some pieces of midgame equipment in v1.63 plus, so i updated patches for both games to v1.65. TBS' is in the download section, TLA's in the same post where you found v1.63plus (scroll up from here) in the attachment, with an updated changelog.

EDIT 2: Updated again to v1.65b (both games) for minor equipment tweaks and a few class tweaks. Patches links/changelogs at same places as v1.65 described above.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 10, 2018, 07:21:45 PM
Recap of addressed issues since v1.63:

  • Lack of strong endgame Light Blade, possibly Jupiter for warrior Ivan
    Rearranged Corsair's Edge and Pirate Sabre, moved Phaeton's Blade to Anemos' Sanctum
  • Weakness of Dragon Skin's equipment
    Overall boost, aligned Dragon's Robe with Princess' and Feathered Robe
  • Early Game Djinn Imbalance
    When Piers joins you end up with 2/3/3/5 Ve/Ma/Ju/Me Djinns. Swapping Mud with Chill changes the distribution to a much more manageable 3/3/3/4.
  • Role of mage/warrior hybrid classes: Ninja, Valkyrie, Fury and General. Mages lack attack.
    Tentative fixes: Atk boost in Berserker Circlet, PP boost in Millenium Helm.

Enter v1.67.

First three points were completely solved as of v1.65b. There's still lots to do about the fourth though.
  • Difference in PP multipliers between mages and warrior much larger than the difference in Attack multipliers
    Reduced by 10% the PP multiplier of ALL caster classes, all characters gain 10 more PP between levels 19-39. Result: caster classes unchanged, every warrior gained ~15 PP at lv 39.
  • Gap between Scrouge/Dragon Fume and the rest of the endgame psynergies is too big.
    Reduced base power of Scrouge, DF and Call Dullahan, boosted every MT psynergy learned after 35. Also reflects the big jump in unleashes' strength after that level (from x1.9 to x2.2).
  • Rarely used pieces of equipment.
    Iris' Robe boosts attack and Ailments instead of Luck now (the mage atk boost moved from Berserk Circlet to Iris Robe), the 2 Greaves also boost Jupiter and Mercury power, to cover for the blind spot left by Big Bang Gloves. Pending: Cosmos Shield.
  • Hybrid Classes
    Valkyrie gained Ragnarok and can run a ailment/atk boost build pretty well, turning into a full support character. Ninja/General can cast much better thanks to Greaves and Millenium Helm. I'm still concerned about Fury: the way it is it's completely overshadowed by the Shogun, so i still have some work to do here before this release.

In progress...


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: leaf on January 21, 2018, 05:33:22 AM
So, I started playing this hack, starting with TBS.

Re: Djinn fleeing: Forge trying to flee on turn 2 after a reset is absolute bullshit. I spammed all of my strongest attacks, and couldn't kill it before its turn came up. I had to keep resetting until its flee failed, then kill it the following turn. Honestly, djinn fleeing adds nothing gameplay-wise and is just a frustration factor for the player. It was lame in vanilla and it's lame here. There's no reason to keep this mechanic at all.

Everything else up to kolima seemed fine, but the enemies introduced in kolima and tret are... a bit much. I assume that the "intended" fighting style here is psynergy spam, but even that isn't enough to kill the enemies before they put down some serious hurt, so your PP ends up going both toward damage *and* healing. Fighting normally and healing between battles isn't really sustainable, so I ended up having to rely on summon spam to get through it. Surprisingly, even with summon spam, I was still unable to one-round some enemies (trolls are notorious for this), and the agility of the bees and gnomes meant that I was always going to take some damage from them, even if they *do* die to two lv2 summons.

Unless summons are the intended way to get through this area, either atk or hp should really come down for these foes. They simply do too much damage for how sturdy they are. Even after switching to summons, I still had to heal frequently enough that I had to use a mountain water on isaac before taking on tret (speaking of which, I'm really thankful for this item being in the game).

Specific enemies:

Bees: Faster than isaac until he reaches a certain level (wasn't keeping track of what level that specifically is, whoops), inflicts over 30 damage on a single attack and can stun. Extremely high priority to get rid of these things, but with their agility value, they'll always get off something before going down. I'd say drop agility a few points so isaac can outspeed them at least one level sooner.

Trolls: Way too sturdy. Damage is fine considering their low agility. I'd reduce HP and increase regen.

Spiders: Seem fine, for the most part. Maybe a bit lower hp to more reliably one-round them?

Amaze (or whatever variant this one is called, idr): Its bulk and damage reminds me of GSC suicune. It doesn't do a lot of damage at once, but it lasts long enough that it builds up. It really likes spamming ghostly rumble. I think its bulk is fine, but it could do with a touch less damage, so you aren't punished so heavily for ignoring it while you deal with other bigger threats.

The tret battle seemed reasonable, but I only had a single ally fall asleep throughout the entire battle, and it happened to be near the end. With how frequently he spams sleep star, if someone were unlucky and had it trigger more often, they'd probably lose. A small nerf to HP would probably make this fight consistently winnable, since I was basically completely out of PP when victory came through.

---

Moving onto bilibin cave, holy @#$% the ghoul is so overpowered. High hp, high damage, and it drain-tanks. You must really want me to summon spam through this. If summon spam wasn't an option here, I would probably just straight-up flee when I get an encounter like double ghoul+double ooze. I nearly wiped on that party once, and had to trek back to bilibin to revive isaac.

Outside the cave, grizzly is another enemy that just has too much HP. Even with full focus from all three party members, they don't die in a single round unless you target focus summons on them. Atalanta+Ramses barely kills one if both are focused on the same target. Meanwhile, most psynergy at this point doesn't even break 50 damage, with gust as the only non-summon option for one-rounding them (deals 100+ damage on a double-hit, but is unreliable).

For reference, I currently have isaac with elven rapier, garet with an axe, and everyone with the best possible defensive equipment available. I've just arrived at imil.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 21, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
I'm kinda hesitant about making changes to TBS at this point. Unlike TLA i've played my mod there multiple times so i'm quite satisfied with the outcome, balance wise. Still, i'll definitively keep all this in mind if i start another playthrough of book 1.

Also, levels are extremely important when reporting about balance in the early game.

ATM, the Fury/Shogun issue has the utmost priority so i can release v1.67


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: leaf on January 21, 2018, 07:41:23 PM
I only checked my level after the tret fight (lv9), but I think I was was lv7ish for most of the tree, having leveled up to 8 near the end, and then again vs tret. I checked with the editor, and indeed it should be lv8 that isaac starts to outspeed the bees. I think if you dropped bee agility by 4 to let isaac outspeed them one level sooner, it would make that enemy a lot more reasonable.

This is what I'd do:

Drone Bee: 43 agility -> 39
Troll: 144 HP -> 129, 10 regen -> 15
Ghoul: 141 HP -> 111
Grizzly: 155 HP -> 135
Amaze: Ghostly Rumble (2) base damage 15 -> 13
Tret: 1012 HP -> 922 HP

This makes the Troll and Grizzly reliably one-roundable if you focus three psynergy on them, unlike at present which absolutely requires either a summon or double-hit gust. Same for the Ghoul, who is frankly well above the curve for that point of the game, and has absolutely no business being that tanky while also being able to drain tank with high damage. At 111, it should die to a double-hit gust + off-range aoe, or to three focused aoe psynergy. The slight nerf to Ghostly Rumble is simply to reduce the ambient damage from Amaze while you focus on other, bigger threats.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on January 22, 2018, 05:30:17 AM
Cosmos Shield is incredibly powerful on paper, but the issue is the characters who most want a pure defensive item are the characters that can't use it in the first place. I'm more concerned about my healers getting taken down than my warriors so I never use it. If I could I'd absolutely use it on Mia or Jenna in boss battles since there isn't a great option in that slot due to elemental power having a lesser effect on healing psynergy.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 22, 2018, 03:13:10 PM
@Epower potency: EPower has the same effect on healing or base damage psynergy. It's lower from vanilla cause originally Epower was twice as strong on healing than it was on offensive spells.

@cosmos' shield: probably it will be used by paladins and holy knights wearing the orichalcon armor and helm, since it'd be pointless to increase crits or venus/mars power.

@Fury: it will gain a new strong EPA whose animation is agatio's rolling flame, and a few changes will occour to Planetary and Fury's psynergy set. It will still take a while to release cause i have to design a new icon for it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 23, 2018, 09:57:54 PM
v1.67 is up and is back to the download section!

Remember that this version tweaks the characters stat growth. You'll be fine if your characters are in the 1-19 range but PP growth is different in the 20-39 range. You can patch things up by adding 10 PP with a save editor to everyone once they reach level 39.

Rules for upgrading from versions earlier than v1.65b still stand and can be found HERE (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2779.msg47868#msg47868). In the linked post you can also find the old v1.63 patch to downgrade if needed.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: inknow on January 25, 2018, 01:27:12 PM
Quick question - I want to to use this hack together with other hacks, specifically:
http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=63
http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=69
http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=72

Usually I just do it and test if it's all still alright, but since the creator is still active - could you confirm compatibility beforehand?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 25, 2018, 07:21:04 PM
The first one should work, as long as Sala didn't place his code in other areas of the ROM. In that case it might overlap with mine.

The other two are mine so there's no need to patch: every other patch I made and uploaded here is already included into Reloaded.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: inknow on January 25, 2018, 07:26:22 PM
Thanks, good to know. <3


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on January 25, 2018, 07:46:35 PM
Saw leaf's knocks on the Tret dungeon, wanted to comment:

I didn't have an issue with my team going through Tret. No one should ever underestimate the usefulness of grabbing 15 herbs or so, considering they cost 10 a piece and are EXTREMELY useful early game.

Tret does have a bit too much HP; a few of your newer boss battles fall into that problem. You're either safe enough to know you'll be fine and the fight drags way too long or you get blitzed in the first few rounds and need to change your party composition. It isn't strength of the bosses that are normally the issue, but durability. And please, for the love of everything, remove djinn's ability to run away.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 25, 2018, 09:18:07 PM
One of the things i've already done for next release (fixes as i play TLA) is a minor tweak to prices (herbs to 12 and corn halved to 40). As for bosses life i think i used the same multiplier for hp literally everywhere, there's also the scenario when you drop your guard under the illusion you'll be fine and that's when you get blitzed.

@Djinn. I've seen this sooo many times, it's never been an issue for me over god knows how many playthroughs since vanilla GS, only a very minor annoyance. It's run away? heal, change room, reload, mess with the RNG, whatever... Probably 3-5 djinn will run away once in anyone's entire playthrough if they beat them quickly enough. Seriously if anyone experiences the same djinn running away over and over i blame the RNG.

I seriously considered getting rid of it before replying, cause i don't know how many times i've read this advice. But I still like the concept of djinn being intelligent creatures who value survival if the situation seems dire, and i value it more than the minor annoyance it provides.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 30, 2018, 11:45:26 PM
Expect a new patch in the next 48-72 hours. I just found out that Asteria Staff isn't where it was supposed to be (Shrine of the Sea God). I'll also check every treasure chest and post a detailed list of all the changes, something i should've done a long time ago.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MomongaMan on February 02, 2018, 06:27:55 PM
Just finished TBS reloaded. The ramped up difficulty was great! Thanks for all the work in putting this together.
I'm excited to see all the changes in TLA, as it seems like that's where the bulk of the design choices were based. Unfortunately I can't get GSTLA v1.67 working - when I load the patched rom I get a blank black screen that continues indefinitely. I'm using VBA 1.8 but also tried VBA-m and mGBA with the same results. I've redownloaded both the patch and rom multiple times to no effect.
I grabbed the v1.63 file posted in this thread and that works, but I'd prefer to play with the latest changes and I'm also not sure how that will handle game transfer from TBS v1.67.
I'm thinking there must be an issue with the specific rom I'm using, but I can't seem to find any different versions across the numerous sites that allow you to obtain them. If only I still had my original cart to rip...


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 02, 2018, 06:39:06 PM
Hi MomongaMan thanks for playing this hack and glad you enjoyed it.

I'm aware of the issue with TLA you mentioned and I think it's related to the emulator you're using, cause other people didn't have issues. There are absolutely no issues with transfer from TBS to an older Reloaded version though, and the issue itself has already been fixed: it will be in the patch i already announced, which should be finalized and uploaded in a few hours from now.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MomongaMan on February 02, 2018, 07:58:04 PM
Hi MomongaMan thanks for playing this hack and glad you enjoyed it.

I'm aware of the issue with TLA you mentioned and I think it's related to the emulator you're using, cause other people didn't have issues. There are absolutely no issues with transfer from TBS to an older Reloaded version though, and the issue itself has already been fixed: it will be in the patch i already announced, which should be finalized and uploaded in a few hours from now.

Awesome! I was actually able to dig up a rom that I think I ripped from the cart years ago and didn't have any luck with that one either. I've tried using several different versions of VBA and VBA-m, mGBA, and no$gba, across both Windows 10 and 7. I even threw it on a RetroPie I have set up. No dice.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 02, 2018, 10:53:22 PM
v1.68 is up! I also updated the opening post to list ALL treasures i changed in TLA.

As usual, since i swapped the Rusty Staff (Asteria's Staff) in aqua rock with the Rusty Sword (Robber's Blade) in Shrine of the Sea god, you should upgrade to v1.68 before acquiring either of them or only after you have both. If you upgrade when you have found one but not the other, you'll lose the "other" permanently.

@MomongaMan maybe i'm wrong and it depends on the ROM you use for patching. Still, i had the same problem and it has been fixed for me so you shouldni't have issues anymore. Let me know if something goes wrong again though.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: annihilation656 on February 11, 2018, 04:35:33 PM
Hi all. I'm a newbie to this site, however, I started playing this hack about a week and a half ago. I've gotten through a majority of this mod without much of a hitch, however now I am stuck at the Star Magician. Sentinel and Balrog were challenges, however, I beat them after some thought and strategy adjustment. But now I am stuck at the Star Magician and cannot think of any solutions other than getting insanely lucky. My party is between lvls 37-41. My original strat was to have 3 people with high luck(28-32) for healing and shade/flash/granite, however I pretty much get killed if anyone other than Felix(my damage dealer with the Jonin class luck=19) gets put to sleep. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to switch up my strategy because I feel like he is beatable at my level but I'm most likely overlooking something.

Also I've been reading this forum link and people are mentioning items such as the ninja sandals, which weren't in the final version of the original Lost Age, however I have no idea where these would be found. Is there a way for me to check out these item locations?

Thanks in advance


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 11, 2018, 07:05:44 PM
Hi all. I'm a newbie to this site, however, I started playing this hack about a week and a half ago. I've gotten through a majority of this mod without much of a hitch, however now I am stuck at the Star Magician. Sentinel and Balrog were challenges, however, I beat them after some thought and strategy adjustment. But now I am stuck at the Star Magician and cannot think of any solutions other than getting insanely lucky. My party is between lvls 37-41. My original strat was to have 3 people with high luck(28-32) for healing and shade/flash/granite, however I pretty much get killed if anyone other than Felix(my damage dealer with the Jonin class luck=19) gets put to sleep. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to switch up my strategy because I feel like he is beatable at my level but I'm most likely overlooking something.

Also I've been reading this forum link and people are mentioning items such as the ninja sandals, which weren't in the final version of the original Lost Age, however I have no idea where these would be found. Is there a way for me to check out these item locations?

Thanks in advance

Hi annihilation656. Indeed you should be able to beat Star Magician (not without trouble though). It's pretty difficult yo give you advice with this generic setting but maybe you'd want to avoid classes weak to sleep like the Arcanist? Trying a different class setup is always an option.

About new items and whatnot: the opening post of this thread has all the answers you're looking for ;).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 12, 2018, 09:11:23 PM
Hi all. I'm a newbie to this site, however, I started playing this hack about a week and a half ago. I've gotten through a majority of this mod without much of a hitch, however now I am stuck at the Star Magician. Sentinel and Balrog were challenges, however, I beat them after some thought and strategy adjustment. But now I am stuck at the Star Magician and cannot think of any solutions other than getting insanely lucky. My party is between lvls 37-41. My original strat was to have 3 people with high luck(28-32) for healing and shade/flash/granite, however I pretty much get killed if anyone other than Felix(my damage dealer with the Jonin class luck=19) gets put to sleep. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to switch up my strategy because I feel like he is beatable at my level but I'm most likely overlooking something.

You should be able to beat the Star Magician at those levels, my party was lower level than your when I beat him. I posted my party setup and strategy pack on page 20 of this thread. You need to have two healers most of the time and you should treat it like a battle of attrition, where as long as you deal more damage than he heals on average you will eventually win. Most rounds I had zero or one adepts damaging the Star Magician at all. Salt and Tonic Djinni are essential in this fight, plus the usual set of defense and PP restoring Djinni. Jonin are amazing here because Shuriken lets you hit two balls and the Star Magicial at the same time.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: annihilation656 on February 13, 2018, 02:55:49 AM


Hi annihilation656. Indeed you should be able to beat Star Magician (not without trouble though). It's pretty difficult yo give you advice with this generic setting but maybe you'd want to avoid classes weak to sleep like the Arcanist? Trying a different class setup is always an option.

About new items and whatnot: the opening post of this thread has all the answers you're looking for ;).

Thanks for the advice about the Arcanist, I overlooked the fact that it's weak to sleep originally lol. I beat the Star Magician finally after getting a couple Triton Wards and Clotho's Distaves(for the luck). Didn't even have to grind, which is nice. I have to say that this is a pretty nicely set up boss in my opinion and probably my favorite boss fight in the mod so far. Can't wait to see what Dullahan is like


You should be able to beat the Star Magician at those levels, my party was lower level than your when I beat him. I posted my party setup and strategy pack on page 20 of this thread. You need to have two healers most of the time and you should treat it like a battle of attrition, where as long as you deal more damage than he heals on average you will eventually win. Most rounds I had zero or one adepts damaging the Star Magician at all. Salt and Tonic Djinni are essential in this fight, plus the usual set of defense and PP restoring Djinni. Jonin are amazing here because Shuriken lets you hit two balls and the Star Magicial at the same time.
Yeah, I'd have to agree that this really was a battle of attrition. I usually stuck with someone using either granite/flash/shade while having another one spam wish well/pure wish though this required that is use like 4 psy crystals. I didn't try to kill any of the balls with him unless they were guard or refresh because with pure wish and shade I could maintain just about max throughout the battle. I probably got to attack once every two turns or so usually but Jonin Felix with the sol blade and high crit rate is so good that it wasn't even that bad


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 15, 2018, 03:25:03 PM
I really love how something once very marginal like vulnerabilities now are actually relevant in certain boss fights. It adds to the strategy element of the game, which was the goal of the "difficulty" part of the mod.

I'm still going through TLA Reloaded for the first time ever and making changes as I go. A new release is planned for when i beat Dullahan, unless something major pops up and i have to deal with it urgently.

Until now everything's been fine, and i just entered the Western Sea. I made some some very minor tweaks to the stats of midgame equipment (like +-2 to atk enforced by the Golden Rule) and made Avimander a bit stronger (it was a breeze at 28 the when i tried, so heat stun from x1.3 to x1.5, in line with other similar attacks, and his star attack reduces res).

The biggest change so far is the Gaia Axe that will become the Gaia Rod, venus boosting staff. The game really needs a venus based staff in the western sea (cause jenna can't equp tungsten mace) and golem core has 3 weapons equippable by warriors, so i think it's the perfect pick.

EDIT: Oh, and... a minor tweak to Deepsea Axe's icon to give it a blueish tone, since it still had the original Mighty Axe icon.

EDIT2: Gaia's Rod is done, the journey resumes.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 19, 2018, 11:19:35 PM
I'd be curious about your endgame party composition and how it compares to mine once you get there. I haven't found any good compositions to fit Acrobat or Necromancer into which is a shame since they seem really cool.

I agree that a Venus staff is needed, assuming Gaia Rod is on par with Atropos' Rod and similar it will be greatly appreciated on Jenna. I found the Moapa and Karst and Agatio fights to be easier than Avimander, though I think I generally have a lower level party than you (mine was probably around level 26 when fighting Avimander) so that may influence things.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 19, 2018, 11:37:04 PM
I'd be curious about your endgame party composition and how it compares to mine once you get there. I haven't found any good compositions to fit Acrobat or Necromancer into which is a shame since they seem really cool.

I agree that a Venus staff is needed, assuming Gaia Rod is on par with Atropos' Rod and similar it will be greatly appreciated on Jenna. I found the Moapa and Karst and Agatio fights to be easier than Avimander, though I think I generally have a lower level party than you (mine was probably around level 26 when fighting Avimander) so that may influence things.

My default endgame party comp has always been, at least in tests:
Warlord Isaac, Shogun Garet, Arcanist Ivan, Pure Mage Mia, Chaos Lord Felix, Radiant Miko Jenna, Fateweaver Sara, Sea Lord Piers. Mages are built for their original element, Sol Blade on Felix, Herculean Axe on Isaac, Cursed gear on garet, Caladbolg on Piers, Orichalcon staff on ivan, Atropo Lachesis Clotho on the girls. But i'd like to try a different one this time.

If you want to use class X, you can just download the txt in the opening post and search for that class. The txt lists every possible class setup that doesn't waste djinn, so it's your best bet.

Gaia Rod replaces Gaia Axe so its level is 30, slightly weaker in atk than meditation rod (boosts venus power by 18). It was the best place to put it as it's exactly midway between anubis (lv 19) and ker (lv 40).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MomongaMan on February 26, 2018, 09:39:35 PM
Just beat Dullahan and Doom Dragon, so I thought I'd share some opinions.

I love that every enemy has enough atk/powerful abilities to pose a threat as you level up throughout the entire game. I think this is what separates this version from the base game and it's done really well. However, I played up to level 25ish on my first attempt, and enemies were just too sturdy for my liking. I found myself constantly PP starved trying to heal after every couple battles, so I used the editor to decrease enemy (excluding bosses) HP by about 24% (new HP = old HP/1.3 to be exact). This felt much more manageable to me - enemies could still threaten me if I wasn't proactive about surviving, but I wasn't burning 50% of my pp on every random encounter. Though I'm also fully willing to admit I'm no pro at this game so there could easily be some aspect I'm overlooking that would nullify my opinion here.

I messed around quite a bit with endgame party comps and finally settled on one that I really really like. I used it from the beginning of Mars lighthouse on.
Miko  :Jenna: - geared for venus power with Nebula wand. Beastly heals and nettle hits decently hard.
Chaos Lord  :Felix: - geared for 100% unleash. Nothing new here.
Holy Knight :Piers: - geared for mercury power and PP with Caladbolg. Very tanky support providing backup heals, remedy, revive, and break.
Psy Champion :Isaac: - geared for hybrid unleash/ailments with Excalibur, dark matter helm and shield, Demon Mail, and Knight's greaves. I was super excited to try this build out, but ended up a little underwhelmed. The unleashes didn't come often enough, and the -luck on some of the cursed gear made him extremely susceptible to condemn, seal, curse, etc. That being said, I don't think he missed a dull on Dullahan and may have been the top dmg dealer during that fight. Ideally I think the +12% crit from ninja sandals probably outweighs the ailments and jupiter power on the Knight's greaves, but I didn't feel like going back to pick up another set of sandals.
White Mage :Mia: - geared for mercury power with Clothos. She got shorted 1 djinn each from venus and jupiter, but she's still so good with powerful group heals and prism/plasma.
Fury :Ivan: - geared for jupiter power and PP with Nebula wand. I was surprised how much I liked this setup. He hits really hard with his psynergy, but needs a lot of PP recovery or will burn through his pool quick.
Radiant :Garet: - geared for resistances and some mercury power with Rising/Alecto's mace. An even tankier version of Holy knight Piers without remedy.
Arcanist :Sheba: - geared for mercury/jupiter power with Clothos/Lachesis. Versatile healer/dmg dealer with wish/plasma/ice.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 27, 2018, 03:03:43 PM
Nice party comp MomongaMan, though there are a 2 things that i'd like to ask you: for Piers and Ivan, why did you choose Caladbolg instead of Rising Mace and Nebula Wand instead of a weapon with more attack like a dagger? I think Fury's main selling point is the attack stat so i find curious keep using a staff in that class.

Also, about the 2 djinn missing, did you check the txt in the opening post? The one that lists every possible party comp that doesn't waste djinn.

Anyway, I really hope you enjoyed your playthrough.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MomongaMan on February 28, 2018, 03:19:15 AM
Caladbolg over Rising Mace: I forgot to mention another little tweak I made when I reduced enemy HP - I added +15 elemental power of their respective elements to the "big 4" long swords. So Caladbolg provides almost as much epower and much more attack than rising mace.

Nebula Wand over light blade: I see the main attraction of fury being the wide variety of very powerful psynergy it has access to, and nebula wand was the only way to boost the epower of all 3 types.

I was aware of the class lists you posted but I didn't consult them when working through my setup. I wanted the satisfaction of finding out what I could come up with on my own rather than copying from a list, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, thanks a lot for all the work you put into this project. TBS/TLA were already among my favorite games, but this makes them so much more engaging.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 28, 2018, 11:33:37 AM
Quote
Caladbolg over Rising Mace: I forgot to mention another little tweak I made when I reduced enemy HP - I added +15 elemental power of their respective elements to the "big 4" long swords. So Caladbolg provides almost as much epower and much more attack than rising mace.
Ok now it makes sense. Though it completely defeats the main selling point of maces, so it's something i'd never do.

Quote
Anyway, thanks a lot for all the work you put into this project. TBS/TLA were already among my favorite games, but this makes them so much more engaging.
You're welcome, glad you liked it.  :happy:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Malyck on March 03, 2018, 07:29:34 PM
This patch is amazing, Caledor. I'm going through TBS right now and I'm loving what I'm seeing.

I recently grew nostalgic over the Golden Sun series and wanted to play through the game again after many years. I always loved the class system but I hated how the games were never difficult enough to actually make you have to use them. I was trying hard mode in TLA and, while it was interesting in the beginning, it just kind of became tedious after you got enough djinn to start experimenting with the classes. It wasn't really difficult, battles just took longer and you had to heal after every battle. Golden Sun Reloaded seems to be more balanced in this respect, as the bosses (with their extra turns, oh my) are actually fun and interesting.

I'm going to be playing through both games back to back, so I figured I'd comment my experiences and impressions with the game as I progress.

                                                     

As of right now, I just finished the Altin mines and defeated the Hydros statue. Up until now, I've been using

 :Isaac: with :MarsDjinni:
 :Garet: with :JupiterDjinni:
 :Ivan: with :VenusDjinni:
 :Mia: with :MercuryDjinni:

But after I got the 4th  :MercuryDjinni: I switched around my party to be the following for the Hydros statue and, probably, the rest of the game.

 :Isaac: with  :JupiterDjinni:
 :Garet: with  :VenusDjinni:
 :Ivan: with  :MercuryDjinni:
 :Mia: with :MarsDjinni:

BANDITS

I think they were well balanced for a first boss encounter. I had given Flint to Ivan so I could have 2 healers during the fight, but I ended up not needing to heal much at all. I still had starting equipment on everyone (everyone is lv 4), but given what I had read from everyone on this thread I was surprised with how fast they went down.

OVERALL DIFFICULTY : 3/10

TRET

This guy really surprised me. I was not expecting him to have 2 turns. At this point I had everyone around level 6 with all the Djinn available so far. I, for whatever reason, did not take the psynergy crystal up above to heal, so almost everyone had around 30%-40% of their PP when I fought Tret. I had to restart this fight 3 times since he would end up just double casting his sleep spell and immobilize my entire team for several turns at a time. In hindsight it would have been useful to have some elixirs to counter the sleep with the (usually) 1 awake member I had, but at that time I only had 1 elixir and that member would always be the one who fell asleep.

This was the first time in the series where I was intentionally using all the djinn on Issac to switch his class so he could start using cure, which gave me a giddy feeling. That's exactly the situation I was looking for in this mod and I'm happy I got to experience it so soon.

Ultimately, the MVP of this fight for me was the healing ring you found in this dungeon. Eventually, I just had to have Issac use it every round to keep everyone alive until Ivan finally woke up and could start healing again.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 8/10

JUPITER DJINN ON TRET'S BRANCH

As a side experience, the Djinn in this dungeon was a huge pain in the F$@king @#$. He would consistently run away on the second or third turn, and no matter what I did I just could not kill him before then. I summon rushed, I spammed djinn, and swapped around all my character's classes, I messed around with the RNG, over and over and I just could not get this guy. After about 15 minutes of trying eventually he tried to run and failed, to which I spammed him with summons, he lived, and then he tried running again and succeeded. I had to leave the dungeon and come back to actually get this guy. He tried to run again, of course, but this time he failed every time he tried. Thank. God. This was, no doubt, the most frustrating part of the game for me by far.

F#%k this guy.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 9/10

SATUROS

After fighting Tret, Saturos was a little bit disappointing for me. He felt like a buffed up average enemy: he doesn't really pose a threat to my party, he just takes a long time to deal with. With an extra party member and 2 dedicated healers in my party now, there was no danger of wiping. I just did a basic strategy of using all my djinn then summon rush him, rinse, repeat.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 4/10

KILLER APE

This guy did SO much damage. I was around level 12 with everyone and I didn't pick up any armor from the village near Tret since I didn't have enough money to upgrade from Imil. There were several times where I would fully heal someone to full hp, the Boss would attack, and that member would be left with ~ 12 hp left. And he still had another turn after! This was a long, drawn out fight, with me constantly healing every turn and switching from offense and defense, but surprisingly I only lost 1 member (Issac) through the entire fight, and it was literally on the last turn of the battle. Was a little upset at that but I didn't feel like redoing the entire fight just so I could have everyone's experience around the same level. Up until now (besides Tret's sleep bs), this was the first and only time in the run someone has died.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 7/10

LIVING STATUE

The typical living statues in the Altin Mines were mostly annoying, and reminded me a lot of Saturos. They don't actually provide any danger to you, their entire purpose seems to just whittle down your resources to make fighting the boss more of a challenge, but the problem with them is the dungeon is segmented, meaning you can easily recuperate at the inn after you fight them. In fact, the segment you actually fight the boss doesn't even have any living statues to begin with, making their overall tankiness just an annoyance rather than a challenge. They either should have had more damage to make them an actual threat, or they should have had a lot less health to make them less of a tedium to fight, since you have to fight 4 of them.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 2/10

HYDROS STATUE

It was at this point I was able to have 4 :MercuryDjinni:, meaning i could now have wish on one of my member. I chose Ivan because he is much faster than Mia. This boss is what the living statues should have been, imo, just with more hp. With Ivan healing with wish basically every turn, however, there was absolutely no danger of dying. I had to use a few of my mountain waters (20 pp recovery) on Ivan through the fight, but ultimately with him on heal duty this was just a battle of resources and I had more than the boss.

This is ultimately what happened in TLA's hard mode. As soon as you get wish the game just becomes laughably easy. If I didn't have wish for this fight I suspect it would have been an actual challenge given how much AoE he had, but since I did all I had to do was make sure Ivan had enough PP every turn. And because the boss had no stuns or sleeps (god dammit Tret) there was literally nothing to worry about.

I'm really hoping Wish doesn't trivialize the rest of the game as it did this fight. I appreciate the increased PP cost of the move, but because you also increased the Base PP of everyone (to make psynergy more powerful, I believe, since max pp now influences damage scaling of psynergy) that kind of negated the increased cost of the move. We'll see what happens.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 4/10

OVERALL IMPRESSIONS

I like what you've done with the game. I think swapping around the psynergy of some classes is a fun idea (I'm not sure I agree with removing whirlwind from Ivan's base psynergy though. That was weird), though I'm sure I won't really come to appreciate it until I get to see Felix's and Sheba's new classes in TLA.

I'm a bit torn on normal encounters, though. They remind me a bit of TLA hard mode where they are just an annoyance rather than anything substantive. I justify the increased hp pools by telling myself it's to use up my resources in dungeons for the bosses, and as a result I rather like them when I'm in dungeons. But in areas without any bosses to fight enemies like this are just a complete chore. I kind of agree with the other poster here who ended up reducing normal enemy's hp by 24%. I would do that for overworld enemies, but I think I would keep enemies located in dungeons as they are. As the enemies are now, the entire game just feels stressful in a way. Part of me keeps expecting the game to let up a bit and let me just relax, but I haven't really felt that yet. After every fight I either use up a ton of psynergy to end the fight quickly or I conserve my psynergy and take a lot of damage and have to heal it back up immediately. Sometimes not having to requiring using resources every fight is nice, but that's probably the nostalgia of the vanilla experience talking.

I'm noticing the increased power of psynergy too and i'm loving it. It's great having a reason to use them over regular attacks. However, from an emotional standpoint, I'm mixed with it because I grew up with these games with attack being the end-all-be-all tactic to use, and to have all 4 members attack an enemy and not kill it is annoying. It makes me feel like there's no reason to attack and to just spam psynergy, which logically speaking makes sense - regular attacks that use no resources shoudn't be as strong or stronger than psynergy that does require resources - but it'll take some time to get used to.

Overall, I'm really happy with what you have done. As I said, I'll be binging through both games back to back so I'll update with anything noteworthy.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 03, 2018, 09:29:15 PM
Hi Malyck

Thanks A LOT for the detailed reports, i really appreciate the effort and i love reading those.

About certain changes:

Ivan lost whirlwind cause i split the "focus" of each character in their element to differentiate the main classes. Ivan is Jupiter's thunder while Sheba is wind. Same happened with Venus (Isaac's Rock vs Felix's Plant), Mars (Garet's Blast vs Jenna's Fire) and Mercury (Mia's Ice vs Piers' Water).
Actually Ivan had only Whirlwind, without the other 2 tiers, for a long time for ease of use, but at some point i gave him the 16th psynergy and thus lacked the space for whirlwind from that moment onwards.

I don't think i increased PP overall. I did increase base PP and HP but i always compensated somewhere else. Lower class multipliers for PP and less HP from djinn for example.

Hope you'll enjoy the rest of the game and TLA like you did so far.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Malyck on March 05, 2018, 09:25:13 AM
All right, I just finished going through all of TBS. Similar to my last post, I'll detail my thoughts on each of the major sections and then give an overall impression after.

But before that, I want to comment on my party setup. Before, I was planning on having :Mia: be a guru, but I soon realized that you had switched around its psynergy and it no longer had Wish. Thus, upon exiting the Desert and getting the :VenusDjinni: immediately outside it before Kalay, I changed my setup to be the following:

:Isaac:    --  :MarsDjinni:
:Garet:   --  :JupiterDjinni:
:Ivan:   -- :MercuryDjinni:
:Mia:   -- :VenusDjinni:

This setup was the obvious route for me since it's pretty much the only one that gives my party 2 wish users. Mia can also get wish from her :MercuryDjinni: and :JupiterDjinni: classes, but Ivan needs the  :MercuryDjinni:. I was debating giving Mia  :JupiterDjinni: instead of Garret, but once again, when I saw you removed revive from the Chaos Lord class that  :Isaac: and :Garet: share there was really no point in having 2 of them.

As a result, I really felt like I was pigeonholed into this specific party comp. The enemies and bosses (especially) did so much damage that I just couldn't justify not having 2 wishes. And with  :Mia: also having the full cure series, the revive I was expecting :Garet: to have, and better stats than her default Angel class there was no reason to not have her as a Guru.

One of the goals of this patch, I thought, was to give players a reason to explore the class system and try new tactics they didn't have to in the vanilla game. This is why I thought you had moved some psynergy around and themed the characters to differentiate them from one another. However, my impression from playing through the game was that class diversity was actually hurt as a result of the balance attempts. As I stated before, the enemies do so much damage that you really need 2 healers in your party. And since nearly all the bosses have multiple turns with aoe potential having wish is just the best and ideal solution, especially when one of those classes has both wish, cure, AND revive. The difficulty of the game basically requires you to have :Ivan: as an Arcanist and :Mia: as a Guru, at least if you want to have a smooth run.

Anyways, onto the bosses.

MANTICORE

At this point I had 4 :MercuryDjinni:, so Ivan was now a certified Wish user. With Ivan healing every turn and Mia topping off or supporting with Granite every now and then, my party never came close to dying. This was a fairly smooth and uneventful fight, actually, and with the 2 psynergy crystals in the previous zone I came into this fight pretty much in perfect condition.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 3/10

KRAKEN

From reading through this thread I had noticed quite a few mentions of this boss being quite a big difficulty spike from the game up to this point, so I was expecting hell going into this. And while he did do a ton of damage, I was also savvy enough to pick up the 2 :VenusDjinni:, :JupiterDjinni:, and  :MarsDjinni: before this area. This meant that in addition to Ivan, Mia could now also use Wish. Having those 2 work together on healing duty and Issac + Garret just cycling through djinn -> summons was more than enough to clear the fight with little difficulties. I think 1 character went down during this fight, but he was easily revived immediately after.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 6/10

COLOSSO

I was really nervous going into this. This is where you have to use Issac alone, and given the HP and Damage boost enemies have I was worried I wouldn't have enough sustain to do these 3 fights consistently. Before then, though, I got a bit peeved at your balancing attempts for the classes. In the first challenge, you have the option to help Issac complete the obstacle course faster by using Move, Douse, and Growth. However, you removed any possibility for Mia to get Growth, and since Garet is the only one who can learn it while also being the only one who has move of the 3 helpers, there is absolutely no way to cheat all 3 areas with psynergy. Admittedly, it's not that big of a deal since you still have more than enough time to get every chest and make it to the goal first, but it was still a bit annoying and noteworthy. It was this event that made me start feeling like a lot of the balance changes involving psynergy were a bit unnecessary on your part and done more so for flavor than actual balance.

Anyways, as for the 3 fights themselves, giving Issac his trusty :VenusDjinni: so he can have cure proved to be more than enough to handle all 3 fights. The third guy was doing a ton of damage every turn and was making me worried, but when I gave in and decided to use the bombs the game gave me the fight suddenly became a cakewalk.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 3/10

TOADONPA

Honestly, not much to say about this fight. 2 Wish users and Djinn + Summons was all that was needed here. No one went down and nothing besides poison (which Mia could cure) to worry about. Fight dragged on longer than I feel it should have though.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 3/10

STORM LIZARD

At this point I realized I could use Ember to restore my party's PP and then reset him after each fight, thus giving me effectively infinite PP for healing. By the time I got to the boss I was at pretty much tip top condition, despite fighting pretty much every Tornado Lizard in the area.

The Storm Lizard did a lot of damage, which is somewhat par for the course, and my characters got below 50 hp quite a few times during this fight, but with the power of double wish I managed to not lose anyone throughout the entire fight. No status aliments to worry about. No real difficulties to note.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 3/10

DEADBEARD

At this point I, of course, had every single Djinn and pretty much the best in slot equipment aside from Issac's Gaia Blade. What made this fight manageable for me was being able to use Djinn on Ivan and Mia and not have them lose their Wish spells. He honestly was not that bad until the second half of the fight where he started spamming sweep on the same characters over and over. 3 of my characters went down in total during the fight. Issac went down first, but With Garet casting Kite on Mia she was able to revive and then full heal Issac back to full the following turn. Then Mia and Garet both went down at the same time due to a double Sweep from Deadbeard, but since my team has 3 characters that can revive (2 Djinn + mia), I was able to get both of them up the following turn too. And, luckily, Deadbeard decided to play nice and just buff himself that turn while I recuperated.

Ivan and Mia were getting really low on PP so I used my first 2 psynergy crystals on both of them using a Kited Issac (who had the crystals), but in 2 turns Deadbeard died so it was a total waste. Sigh.

Long fight, but doable.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 8/10

SATUROS AND MENARDI

These 2 had a ton of hp, but they didn't feel that threatening at all. Menardi stuck to trying to cheese me with Death scythe pretty much every turn (but it never worked, thank god), and Saturos alternated between fireball and attack mostly. I spammed djinn and summons on Saturos first, and 2 years later he finally died. Menardi by herself was barely a threat that I decided to just recuperate by recycling all my djinn and just attack her until she died. Mia was enough to heal anything she could do with her eyes closed.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 4/10

FUSION DRAGON

He had a ton of Aoe and liked spamming outer space on me every other turn, but yet again the power of 2 wishes came out on top. I think at one point he killed Issac by using a move that automatically puts a character at 1 hp and then did an Aoe to attack everyone like an @#$, but it was a simple revive procedure to get him back up. Other than that, he went down much faster than the duo before him. Ivan also got low on PP from constantly healing so I threw him a Psynergy Crystal, but like with Deadbeard the boss died a few turns later, making it another wasted item. Sigh.

OVERALL CHALLENGE: 6/10

GENERAL IMPRESSIONS/COMMENTS

Overall, I had a lot of fun with this. This was definitely a different experience from the vanilla game. The game was kind of stressful in the beginning, as I noted in my first post, but after obtaining Wish that feeling went away mostly. It was still annoying to have Ivan have to heal after every battle, but after Mia got Wish herself the game suddenly got A LOT easier.

I mentioned it up above, but I want to restate it here, I think there is still some issue with the balancing in this game/patch, and perhaps it's not something you can address. Wish is such a strong move that it pretty much trivializes much of the game. However, when you make enemies have so much hp and deal so much damage you basically force players to take it. And this is why I felt like I was stuck in the one party comp I had at the end. Anything else just isn't as efficient, you really want to have 2 wish users and a revive (just in case).

Ultimately, I ended up playing the game the way I usually do: Have 2 dedicated healers and then just spam djinn -> summons on bosses. The only difference being I had to heal pretty much every turn as opposed to only every 2-3 turns in the vanilla experience, thus making fights last longer not just because of the increased HP pool. Part of me wanted to experiment a bit with aliments and using buffs/debuffs, but I didn't really need to, just like vanilla.

After getting all the Djinn I got really curious about how TLA is going to work though. With more Djinn and characters a lot more class options are likely to open up and my problems with the balancing in TBS might be alleviated there. With the 7 Djinn limit, though, the game feels somewhat incomplete to me. That might just be my familiarity with TLA talking, though.

One thing that I really have to applaud you for in this patch is making the bosses actually feel like bosses. They feel like an entirely different beast from the regular enemies, as they should. In the vanilla game you could pretty much fight bosses the same way you would fight normal enemies. In fact, the last several times I've played the GS games I decided to never use any djinn or summons since they made the game so easy. The bosses in this patch, though, were tough enough that I felt like I needed to use the djinn to have a chance. I could probably beat most of the bosses without djinn or summons, but they would be a very, very long fight without them.

I'm glad I found this patch, but at the end of the day I'm feeling exhausted from the whole experience. I can't say I've ever felt tired from playing GS before, so I'm still deciding whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing.

But I would definitely recommend this patch to anyone who thinks the GS is too easy. Thank you for making it!

I'll be starting my TLA Reloaded run within the next few days, so I'll post my thoughts on the game when I make some decent progress in it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 07, 2018, 12:40:51 AM
Thank you very much for the feedback, Malyck. Let's see...

@Wish & difficulty: i think the overall difficulty is more or less TBS hard mode. This might have given too many HP on enemies since in TBS they're already stronger than in TLA. so i'm considering cutting 10% of HP to everyone. About wish, Isaac's Protector also has it.

@Guru: Mia had wish in every dual class. For the sake of variety, either this or Druid had to lose it.

@TLA. The mod was tailored for TLA, where i focused especially on endgame variety, so it's well within my expectations that TBS might feel underwhelming.

Again thanks a lot for playing it and for the huge report, I hope you'll enjoy your TLA run!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: ReploidX on March 27, 2018, 01:55:58 AM
I also just finished playing through TBS Reloaded, and I ended up taking a similar class setup as Malyck did, with Ivan having the Venus Djinn before getting Mia, and then swapping them for Mercury after the lighthouse.

Before going to Kolima/Tret, I did make a brief detour into Bilibin Cave to snag the Elven Rapier for a much-appreciated increase to my damage output to help get through the forest.

I ended up not using Djinn or summons, though, and went for a strategy of Bravery/Impact on Isaac/Garet, use Ragnarok/Planet Diver/Astral Blast, with Ivan's priorities being to heal, use Dull/Blunt/Resist, or just use an attack spell. Mia simply healed or used an attack spell when everyone was healthy.

This took me through most of the boss fights with no major issues. Once I had the "endgame" gear and Isaac was loaded out with the Gaia Blade, Warrior's Helm, Asura Armor, War Gloves, and Hyper Boots, he stopped using any Psynergy beyond a Bravery at the start of a fight, and just used basic attacks and Titan Blade, which hit Deadbeard for about 500 damage on each TB, and 3-400 against Saturos & Menardi and Doom Dragon, depending on how recently they used Break. Deadbeard was taken out at level 28, which leveled everyone up to 29, and by the time I climbed back up Venus Lighthouse, Isaac, Garet, and Mia were 30, then Saturos & Menardi gave Ivan enough experience to hit 30, also.

The Saturos and Menardi fight had somewhere around 4 Death Scythe/Size actually connect, downing Garet 3 times and Isaac once, but Revive and a Nut got them back up and going again each time.

I've started TLA now, and I don't know if it's just the enemies themselves, or the lack of a second warrior instead of a second caster, but enemies take about 2 rounds of auto-attacks, barring unleashes, or a round of spells, before going down, and I tend to end up needing to Cure everyone after a random encounter or two, even with a full set of armor from the shops and what little treasure armor is available at the start. Things seem to hit really hard right now, especially Skeletons with Undead Sword.

Admittedly, I'm not even level 10 yet, about to head out to Yampi Desert, so that may change soon.

Overall, I'm having a great time playing through this update, and I can't wait to get enough Djinn to actually get into the classes and take down some superbosses.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 28, 2018, 06:14:47 PM
Hi ReploidX welcome aboard and glad you're liking the mod so far.

About TLA, what you described is perfectly normal. I'm positive i literally ported enemy stats from TBS so the blame is entirely on the "second caster instead of second warrior". Longer fighter in turns implies more damage taken which implies more healing needed and so on.

Hope you'll enjoy the rest of TLA as well!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: ReploidX on March 31, 2018, 01:43:18 AM
Well, TLA's been pretty great so far. I've got my Trident now, and it's time to take down Poseidon.

The last two bosses, Serpent and Avimander, went fairly well, using the same basic class setup as in the first game. Jenna's got all Venus Djinn, Felix has Mars, Piers with Jupiter, and Sheba with Mercury. Near the end of each fight a few characters ran out of Psynergy, and I actually unleashed some Djinn for the last round or two.

Poseidon, though, seems a bit further out of my reach than either of them did, with his 3 actions and the "set to 1 HP" attack (Ocean Fist?). I'm level 27, so I might just need to grind a few levels first. Looking at various treasure lists, I have all the major treasures so far, so I don't think I'm under-geared. Then again, the item classes might have something I overlooked, because I never used them before, so I have no idea what they actually do.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Megalord38 on April 07, 2018, 09:05:25 PM
Yo, incredible hack you made dude. Played a vast part of the first GS, but my save state messed up, so I'm just gonna play the TLA one now. Question: Do all the djinn appear? Cause for all i know, you needed to transfer data from the first game in order to have ALL the djinn in the series that far. Other than that, incredible job, and i hope you keep it going, cause I'll sure try it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 10, 2018, 01:19:00 AM
Yo, incredible hack you made dude. Played a vast part of the first GS, but my save state messed up, so I'm just gonna play the TLA one now. Question: Do all the djinn appear? Cause for all i know, you needed to transfer data from the first game in order to have ALL the djinn in the series that far. Other than that, incredible job, and i hope you keep it going, cause I'll sure try it.

Thanks Megalord, and sorry for the late reply. All i can say is that Djinn requirements are the same as vanilla. Without a password you'll find some extra GS1 djinn exactly like vanilla TLA but you won't have all of them.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Megalord38 on April 22, 2018, 09:00:39 PM
So far so good, although the Gabomba Statue was a really hard dungeon despite the full party being available xD. A have a question though: In you class chart document you shared in the download link there are some red numbers, is it just my computer being crap or does it have a meaning?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 22, 2018, 09:11:33 PM
So far so good, although the Gabomba Statue was a really hard dungeon despite the full party being available xD. A have a question though: In you class chart document you shared in the download link there are some red numbers, is it just my computer being crap or does it have a meaning?

Red = values changed from last version update. ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: pachichi on April 22, 2018, 11:54:30 PM
hi, thx for the great work!

I'm playing TBS atm, and according to the chart, the oracle class series have "drain" and "psy drain". Are these locked behind higher class lvls? Ivan is Augur and doesnt have them.

Also I remember when I played your patch long ago, class series like worldwaker had more psynergy, for example like how Fury has volcano, plasma and ice, they had jupiter psynergy + gaia + prism. Imho this class in particular misses wind psynergy.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 23, 2018, 12:08:24 AM
Drain and Psy drain for Oracle are only locked behind levels and not class tiers. learned at levels 32 and 33 respectively
Worldwaker has been changed many times so i really can't remember but i can say this: it's not mandatory for tri-elemental classes to use all 3 elements offensively.

btw fury has ice for the sole reason that it's the only mercury spell i could give to that class. mercury has A LOT of healing, which all clashes horribly with Fury's theme.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Megalord38 on May 05, 2018, 02:22:37 AM
Got to the Eastern Sea now, and I'm getting rekt by Gaia Rock xD. Are all the items in Yallam's forge the same as vanilla, or did you change something? Other than that, i guess i just need to grind a bit lul.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 05, 2018, 01:15:18 PM
Got to the Eastern Sea now, and I'm getting rekt by Gaia Rock xD. Are all the items in Yallam's forge the same as vanilla, or did you change something? Other than that, i guess i just need to grind a bit lul.

Almost every item in the game has been changed in one way or another, you can use atrius' editor to open the modded rom and check. The target level for gaia rock is 24.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Frey on May 15, 2018, 11:36:50 AM
Hello

I'm excited to play this hack :) But when I apply the patch, conversations are glitched out and the characters go out of screen. This happens in both games. Why does this happen? I'm patching the US version of the games.

Thank you for your help.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 15, 2018, 11:45:04 AM
Hello

I'm excited to play this hack :) But when I apply the patch, conversations are glitched out and the characters go out of screen. This happens in both games. Why does this happen? I'm patching the US version of the games.

Thank you for your help.

most likely you're using a bad rom, or even a bad emulator. try different roms and/or VBA as an emulator on PC.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Megalord38 on May 16, 2018, 07:47:41 PM
Got to Lemuria, and have to say, that Poseidon fight was hard af. Kept killing Felix and the only source of damage was Piers with the trident xd. I think you should reduce the amount of turns he has cause he destroyed my team with that one-hit k.o attack he has. Otherwise, pretty clutch win xD. I wanna ask if is possible to obtain multiple lucky medals by the RNG manipulation method (is this possible too?) or you just have a set amount of lucky medals to manage along the game. So far it is pretty good.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 16, 2018, 09:00:40 PM
I wanna ask if is possible to obtain multiple lucky medals by the RNG manipulation method (is this possible too?)

Yes to both. As usual, use the editor to see who drops what. RNG manipulation is unchanged from vanilla but enemies have changed so old patterns might not work. To address that, just make new patterns after understanding how RNG works (-> https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gba/561356-golden-sun-the-lost-age/faqs/25734).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: coolkalle on May 23, 2018, 11:47:06 PM
Around a month ago I got Golden Sun on my mind something fierce. I happened to hear about a mod called Golden Sun Reloaded that retooled the game to make combat less spammy, more thoughtful and more challenging. Considering I had cheesed my way through GS1 as a kid at least ten times, this sounded like the perfect way to replay it.

I've attempted to replay the game a few times since my childhood, but I've generally ended up dropping it in lieu of playing it its more challenging, meatier sequel. With this mod, this changed - I was suddenly far more engaged in the combat. This mod meant I spent far more time thinking about optimal class setups and equipment, scraping by tough boss monsters with buffs and debuffs, and getting my teeth kicked in when I realized I couldn't just summon rush my way through the game, and it was an absolute joy seeing Camelots systems finally getting put to something that wasn't a novelty use.

It was a nostalgic treat for me to play this game again and your mod not only made the experience fresh, challenging, and incredibly rewarding - It made it happen in the first place. If I could had just beaten Saturos the old fashioned way I would probably not had gotten farther than going back to Tret before I lost interest and looked to the sequel instead.

I've rambled long enough (Probably Golden Sun rubbing off on me) but I want to say
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HARD WORK CALEDOR! THIS MOD IS DA BOMB! It has allowed me to experience Golden Sun again, and it has opened my eyes - Rom hacking can do so much more than just modding a Sonic Sprite into Super Mario Bros.

With that in mind, I have two questions I was hoping you could answer:

1: Is Hard mode still around in modded TLA, or did you get rid of it in lieu of the mod? Or is it available as some Frankenstein thing that mixes TLAs hard mode with your mod?

2: Are there any plans to work on a similar mod for Dark Dawn?



Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 24, 2018, 12:16:46 AM
What can I say? Just thank you for playing with the mod and taking the time to make an account here to tell me all this. :D
About your questions:
1 - It's in as the Frankenstein thing. I left it untouched so it still applies its stat multipliers to every enemy, which means on top of my changes. Call it Hard mode squared, Hell mode... it's completely untested. Play at your own risk. ;)
2 - None, I'm sorry. I never even finished it cause i always preferred replaying the first 2 games improved rather than vanilla DD. So i can't really see it happening.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 22, 2018, 10:29:18 PM
I've spotted 2 minor bugs in the current version. One is about the Spirit Glove's description, the other about Fury's Rolling Fire, which is learnt automatically after reaching channeling tier instead of requiring level 40. They will be fixed in the next version among the other tweaks.

Here's the current changelog for v1.70

Fixed Spirit Golves' description
Fixed Fury's Rolling Fire learning level (40)
Psy crystal restores 200 PP
PP cost of Wish Well, Pure Wish, Cool Aura, Potent Heal slightly increased
Psychic Circlet restores 15 PP/turn
Caladbolg's Atk +1
Water of Life revives to 25% HP <- In progress

BTW, i was re-checking everything about the mod while the site was down and this is all i wanted to change in the end. I think it goes a long way in telling how close to being finished this mod is.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on July 26, 2018, 02:43:58 AM
Quote
I think it goes a long way in telling how close to being finished this mod is.

Has it been 3 years already?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 26, 2018, 09:14:49 AM
Quote
I think it goes a long way in telling how close to being finished this mod is.

Has it been 3 years already?

Since the first time I said "it's finished"? yeah it's possible, lol :D


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 26, 2018, 03:41:43 PM
v1.70 is up.

This release is all about decreasing the strength of 2 consummables: Psy Crystal and Water of Life.

About Psy Crystal. I always said that I wanted people to usually equip Berserk Circlet on offensive casters and Psychic Circlet on healers, as you'd be trading off power for sustain. My fear is that Psy Crystal's strength allowed people to easily equip Berserk Circlet on healers as well since they'd only lose 1 in 10 turns to replenish their PP completely. So, healing costs slightly more, Psychic circlet is stronger and Psy Crystal's power is more than halved at endgame.

About Water of Life: When i decide on a psynergy set on a class i always try to keep things balanced and Revive and Raise are among the spells i weight more in a set. For example, Raise was given to the Inquisitor to cause its set felt lackluster without it; likewise, it will never be given to Fateweaver cause it'd be way too good with it. Farming Water of Life makes all this irrelevant since you could end up with 8x30 WoLs and effectively give everyone free revives. So WoL effectiveness is now half that of Revive.

Edit: Also opening post updated


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on July 26, 2018, 08:06:50 PM
I just want you to know how happy having the final psynergy learned at 42 makes me. Matches the actual length of the game much, much better. That change slipped past me in earlier version notes.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 27, 2018, 09:34:06 AM
I really had to. Not only to avoid the endgame grinding to dullahan, but also because the power/level ratio of base power psynergies decreases after lv ~35 in vanilla, while unleashes spike in power.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 31, 2018, 11:38:25 PM
V1.71 is on the way and will see a lot of tweaks to classes, mainly stats, with 2-3 psynergy sets affected.
Also includes tweaks to a few psynergies and pieces of armor (5 to 10 each) and I finally decided what to do with Cosmos Shield.

UPDATE: v1.71 is up.

Changelog:

Many class tweaks: see class doc, linked from the opening post of this thread
Items: Tweaked Xylion Armor, Luna Shield, Flame Shield, Cosmos Shield, Iris Robe, Titan Gloves, Greaves, Silver Greaves
Other minor fixes to equipment
Aura series, Dragon Fume, Searing Beam, Spark Plasma, Tempest, Scourge, Thunderhead, Dullahan are stronger

About class and psynergy changes (on the doc Blue is for improvements, Orange for worsenings):
Every mage's WRD dropped by 1 tier or more to put the max at 115%, then i started to make tweaks to even out stat totals.
After that the most significant changes were due to specific class comparison: I compared all the mages' classes capable of MT healing and tried to make the sum of damage + healing as similar as possible. Miko with Arcanist, Jenna's Guru with Druid, and Pure Mage, Guardian and Incantatrix together. Those comparisons caused the psynergy changes listed in the changelog. The most notable one is Aura, which is A LOT stronger (like +40 BP to the 3rd tier)... The only way I had to bring Incantatrix up to the Miko's level (and still wasn't enough, that's why the Miko's PP multiplier dropped by 5%).

Also, both Guru had to become stronger (they were the worst of the duals), so more PP and a slightly better psynergy set. Jenna's inquisitor lost raise for impact to avoid having all her 3 duals capable of reviving.

About equipment: Added minor bonuses to the very underwhelming luna shield and flame shield. Titan Gloves now boosts Venus Power by 30 (+5) cause a venus only mage lacks a non cursed staff and has to fall back to gaia rod. The other are boosts to warrior-mage hybrids. Xylion armor boosts power by 25 (+5), Cosmos shield brings a boost to Jupiter Power AND max PP and this allowed me to switch the Greaves' EPower bonus to Venus. Iris Robe and Silver Greaves are minor changes: -5 atk and +5 Me Power respectively.

UPDATE 2: TLA Patch reuploaded, i forgot to update the descriptions for the 3 shields i tweaked.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on August 04, 2018, 04:35:37 PM
Hey Caledor,

Where is the doc located? Can't seem to find it.

Thanks!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 05, 2018, 09:58:35 AM
The doc is the class chart, linked from the first post of this thread


UPDATE: Another walkthrough has started and I already had to stop before Dekhan to fix enemy groups. In the area around Dekhan's entrance you can encounter drone bees, trolls and skeletons, which are enemy that belong to the Madran half of Indra (after Dekhan), which is clearly wrong. From the next release, enemies around Dekhan's entrance in the Dalian half of Indra you'll encounter the enemies you're supposed to, like punchy ant, wolves and bats


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Apprentice57 on August 17, 2018, 05:03:45 AM
Howdy all,

For (long)ish reasons I played through The Broken Seal with a different hard mode mod, but I'm not liking the version that that author created for The Lost Age.  :sad:

So I think I'd rather check out GS Reloaded for The Lost Age instead (though I have played Caledor's old mod circa 2015). That presents an issue for me with transferring data to The Lost Age since I don't want to replay TBS again.

Would any kind soul be willing to share their clear .sav file from GSR TBS? (One with all djinn, extra psynergy items, all events done, etc.). Password works too, but I presume that is more challenging to type up.

Alternatively, are vanilla clear .sav files compatible? Would I miss out on any mod unique items this way?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 18, 2018, 12:38:12 AM
Alternatively, are vanilla clear .sav files compatible? Would I miss out on any mod unique items this way?

While you'll never miss out on exclusive TBS items cause there aren't any, you will miss out on the modified stat growth of the characters, like PP and especially Luck.

So here's my endgame save from TBS played with my mod. It's as good as a normal run can be, it has all the important lategame stuff, characters are at a fair lever for the reunion, and carries the stat boosting items (i use them in TLA after i decide on the endgame class setup) for maximum freedom.

PS: passwords become trivial once you figure out how to use the golden sun passwords tool and VBA's memory viewer. Google it, download it and read the Readme. It will teach you how to save & load a dump of the password in TLA and save you from inputting it manually


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Apprentice57 on August 18, 2018, 02:12:36 AM
Beautiful. You're the best Caledor!

EDIT: I gave updated details on why I'm switching mods midway on reddit if anyone is curious: https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/93bx8k/mods_reloaded_or_fallen_star/e3hs2k7/ . It's more about the other mod, so I didn't want to quote it verbatim here. I'll update it again with my thoughts after I finish GSR TLA. I gave you a shout out for your help.

EDIT2: Btw Caledor, I didn't receive the bandit encounter. No biggie, but fyi to anyone else wanting it, keep that in mind.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 27, 2018, 05:17:41 PM
@Apprentice57: sorry about that, but i think you can still fix it by editing the .sav with a save editor (there's a checkbox to tick) and update the password in TLA before reunion.

@YoungLink4. Thanks for the report, I found a few other issues in TBS though, so it might take a while to release a fix


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 28, 2018, 01:02:14 AM
Ok so it's totally a side effect of porting the advanced reviving patch from TLA to TBS in v1.70

I might need to do that part again from scratch so in the meantime please downgrade to v1.68 from here: goo.gl/2gvKmR

BTW this also implies that the bug is TBS only


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 30, 2018, 05:54:38 PM
Patch for TBS updated to v1.71a, which fixes the Cure Poison bug (couldn't heal poison in battle).

The bug happened cause the advanced reviving function spilled over on the cure poison effect function, which is right after it, overwriting its first 2 instructions. The bug was fixed by saving some space in the advanced reviving function, which allowed me to restore the lost instructions.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 31, 2018, 09:49:26 AM
I couldn't replicate any of the issues in TBS with the Crystal Rod. So i'd say try patching another clean rom and see if it works.

Mud in indeed repeatable instead, guess I forgot a flag of some sort when i swapped it with Chill. I'll have to investigate cause that obviously shouldn't happen.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 03, 2018, 07:24:48 PM
Hi Warden. That doesn't happen on my copy so please try a different rom and let me know how it goes.

Anyway, v1.71a for TLA is up and fixes the mud bug reported by Supremezero


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Jassu323 on September 04, 2018, 03:37:18 AM
Hi Warden. That doesn't happen on my copy so please try a different rom and let me know how it goes.

I ran into the same issue as Warden when playing through.  The issue itself seems to be some kind of fatal error and I'm able to get it to occur consistently by having enemies use Smoke Bomb or Weaken so far (only just made it to Goma Cave in TBS).  I'm wondering if it's applicable to any type of debuffing ability.

I've repro'd this across three different TBS ROMs.  Curiously, playing the un-patched ROMs is no problem—I'm only seeing the issue occur when playing a patched version of any ROM.

Hope this helps for now.  Happy to provide any additional detail as needed!

EDIT:  Tested a couple of different emulators and I think the issue is isolated to mGBA.  I can only repro the problem using that emulator—all others work just fine.  I'll post back if I find anything different or new.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 04, 2018, 11:42:17 AM
I think literally everyone here uses visual boy advance either the old one or the vba-m port, at least on windows


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Roykras on September 15, 2018, 01:51:01 PM
I think literally everyone here uses visual boy advance either the old one or the vba-m port, at least on windows
No, I use mGBA because of its quality.

https://mgba.io/ (https://mgba.io/)



Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 15, 2018, 04:08:29 PM
well i've been playing GS on VBA for the past 15 years I think and never had issues with it, so i never bothered to look for something else. Anyway, i added a tips section to the opening post for future reports.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: inknow on September 15, 2018, 05:07:47 PM
mGBA is, currently, the most accurate GBA emulator, and it's ported to multiple platforms. It's probably the future of GBA emulation, so it's kind of important things run on it.

On top of that, emulator-specific hacks are a bit problematic. In the early days of SNES emulation there were SNES9x-specific hacks and zSNES-specific hacks, and most of these do not run on modern iterations of SNES9x or higan, the other top SNES emulator - because as accuracy increased, the emulator-specific behavior the hacks relied on was simply removed, making those hacks simply unplayable.

Could you please investigate and see how to make it work on mGBA? Or if anyone has a flashcart and a GBA, can confirm if this happens on real hardware?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 16, 2018, 12:21:11 AM
Could you please investigate and see how to make it work on mGBA?
The method is simple but extremely time consuming: I'd have to check the edited functions after you guys report a crash, since it's likely that the issues are in the jumps/branch-link i added, coupled with a sligthly different scheduling in mGBA.
It will probably take (several) months, so for the time being, switching to VBA-m is much more efficient.
Also, is very important that nothing is broken on VBA-m before i start making changes, or i might make things worse than they're now.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fox on September 16, 2018, 03:56:06 AM
Does mGBA even work properly on Windows Vista?

Happens when trying to load a ROM - causes app to close.

Then there's some notifications about Microsoft's Data Execution Prevention stopping it. Huh.

If mGBA does not work on outdated OS's (would prefer as far back as XP.), then how could it be the best emulator? Maybe some day it shall be.

I shall try on Windows 10 later.  From another computer.  Don't think I will have a problem with that. Edit: That worked.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on September 21, 2018, 03:52:36 AM
Still interested to see how this mod wraps up, emulator issues notwithstanding.

I use My Boy! for playing on my phone personally, but I haven't booted up one of these versions since about 1.6. I was sort of surprised that you haven't done a full playthrough of both games, Cal, but they are time-consuming.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 21, 2018, 10:00:46 AM
Still interested to see how this mod wraps up, emulator issues notwithstanding.

I use My Boy! for playing on my phone personally, but I haven't booted up one of these versions since about 1.6. I was sort of surprised that you haven't done a full playthrough of both games, Cal, but they are time-consuming.

The problem is not the time it takes for a single playthrough. It's the ideas that pop up in my head while i'm doing one, cause they force me to start again. Changing character growth forces a restart, so does swapping djinn, weapons, changing healing effectiveness... basically any change that isn't about endgame balance only. I think i've started a  TLA playthrough at least ten times in those 3 years, and each one of those could've been the last one. Yet sometimes i had to restart from TBS.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on September 21, 2018, 11:37:06 AM
On the other hand, I guess playthrough attempts lead to innovation. Not criticizing, more impressed that you went out of your way to fix issues you found so many times.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 21, 2018, 11:49:46 AM
Of course, that's what happened. Whenever i found something i didn't like i stopped playing in order to work on the next release.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: ShiFT on September 24, 2018, 08:37:08 AM
Hey Caledor, really loving the mod so far! I just wanted to mention a super, super minor issue I noticed with Isaac's attack growth when I was checking stuff out in the editor. At level 79 it's set to 289, but at level 99, it's set to 253. So according to level ups in battle, you actually 'gain' negative attack :p   I say it's minor though since I REALLY doubt anyone's gonna be insane enough to grind out that much in TBS lol. It looks like this is fine in TLA though, there it's set to 353 which seems a lot more normal, and it's actually possible to level him that high.

But as for the mod itself, the difficulty is pretty close to perfect imo. I first started playing the games when I was 5, 22 now and I've always done 1 or 2 playthroughs of both every year, so I mean they're not REMOTELY close to challenging at this point, but I'm SO happy I can say that's not the case anymore with your mod :)   Last year I did full playthroughs of both games with Reloaded (can't remember which version anymore, whoops :p), just finished up a second run of TBS with 1.71 this week, and about to start TLA on my next day off soon. I really love that it's still completely feasible to get through both games with zero grinding, but I genuinely have to strategize for every boss, to the point where much of the time I'm anticipating what I might get hit with NEXT turn and preemptively have to setup a turn in advance for it. I find a lot of the time I'm not so much reacting to what my party gets hit with, and picking the 'best' option afterwards, but trying to read what a boss might do then covering as many options as I can, if that's a good way to put it?

It felt basically impossible to just have one person cast Wish each turn and everyone else spam djinn/summons, which is a very, very positive thing for me. If I wanted to use a lot of djinn and summons, it was definitely doable, but it required a lot of actual thought about not only when I'm using them to drop stats or inflict statuses, but actually the order I had to use them, and how long I could go without summoning, otherwise they wouldn't be set again by the time I needed to reuse them. Deadbeard was a great example for this, since when I fought him (around mid-late twenties I think), he easily out-sped everyone in my party, but Vine/Zephyr made Mia (who was healing of course :p) just fast enough to act before him. So that meant I ALWAYS had to be focusing on when their effects were wearing off, and again, when I'd NEED to summon or set them to get them ready again to either drop his speed or raise mine. Otherwise he hits last on one round, speed returns to normal, and downs most of the party at the start of the next round before I can heal, which at those levels was incredibly difficult to recover from. Managing Mia's PP (nerfs to healing in general were honestly really well implemented btw) while having to stall for a couple turns with Granite/Flash/Ground to let her recover PP, while now having to focus on when THOSE three djinn would be usable again, on top of STILL focusing on when to set/summon to keep Vine/Zephyr ready to avoid getting rushed by Deadbeard's buffed psynergy (loved the new damage formula for this too!) turned this into an incredibly cerebral fight. Whereas on Vanilla, running the same strategy meant just alternating Granite and Flash, Wish every turn, and summon whenever. This was genuinely the most fun I've ever had with a boss in any playthrough of the series.

The only sort of 'complaint' I guess I might have right now is by the time you hit Tolbi and have access to the slots, the boots/shirts/rings from those provide a pretty substantial buff to everyone, which really lowered the difficulty of random enemy encounters. Not that they weren't still difficult, they were still MUCH tougher than vanilla, but I didn't really need to worry nearly a smuch about trying to balance PP between offense and healing to avoid running out partway through a dungeon, since I could tank hits much better, and kill enemies before they could do as much damage. Maybe either lowering the chance of getting a game ticket to get less equipment, nerfing the equipment, or slightly buffing the late game enemies more could help with this a bit, or some combination of these? Early dungeons though (going through Kolima Forest and Tret back to back come to mind actually) I'd often find my stats low enough that just standard attacks weren't really viable, so I'd be more inclined to use psynergy to end fights fast enough that I wouldn't risk downing anyone, with the trade off being it was much more difficult to manage keeping enough PP to heal between fights without running out entirely. I really liked this since it meant I'd always be aware of what I was making throughout an entiere dungeon, and what consequences might come from them. Again, later areas are still tough, just kind of inconsistent with difficulty in the early game, you know?

It seemed too that since by this point you'd have access to Scorch/Mist/Squall, smaller enemy groups in general became much easier. Even if on paper they should have the ability to be threatening, being able to basically remove one or two of them for virtually the whole battle with sleep/stun meant the party was taking very little damage, and I could almost always be back to max HP/PP by the next encounter. Single enemy groups, like Tornado Lizards, were basically impossible to lose to because of this, even though they had the stats and abilities to make for a challenging fight otherwise. But other than directly nerfing those djinn, or sleep/stun in general, I don't really see much way to avoid this. Neither this or the stuff with the slots equipment are THAT big a deal to be honest though, like I wouldn't be disappointed if these never changed, they're just spots that have a notably different feel to me in terms of challenge.

But yeah, overall I absolutely love what you've done so far, it's a HUGE improvement on the vanilla games! I'm really looking forward to how the mod progresses, I'm hoping you'll keep going with it  :)

(also I really didn't think my first post would be this long, my b :p)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 26, 2018, 09:20:42 AM
Hi ShiFT

Thank you very much for the kind words, i'm glad you're enjoying the mod.

Quote
super, super minor issue I noticed with Isaac's attack growth when I was checking stuff out in the editor. At level 79 it's set to 289, but at level 99, it's set to 253
Thanks for the report and for using the editor to check stuff lol. It's the classic typo that can go unnoticed for months. IIRC i have fixed a similar typo recently but i don't remember which one and if it's for the next version or if it's already released. I'm on a different OS atm so i can't check with the editor, but it's definitively something i'll check as soon as i can.

Quote
The only sort of 'complaint' I guess I might have right now is by the time you hit Tolbi and have access to the slots, the boots/shirts/rings from those provide a pretty substantial buff to everyone,
Noted, i'll check ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 01, 2018, 11:09:11 PM
Walkthrough progress report (and reminder for me): Just beaten Aqua Rock.

So far everything's good, made a few minor adjustments here and here.

Noted potential issues:

1. EXP might be a tad too much in the eastern sea, but i'll wait until after lemuria to decide if i should lower it or not
2. There is a huge coin shortage as soon as you enter the Eastern sea. Considered on having the Hydra boss give you something like 5k to 10k coins to compensate, but it might be a good thing to leave it like this: players will have to upgrade equipment and forge stuff as they go instead of being able to upgrade everything immediately.

Partial changelog:

Jenna's Inquisitor line loses Volcano, gains Raging Heat
Jenna's Guru line loses Beam, gains Juggle
Raging Heat line and Fiery Juggle are slightly stronger (BP 185 and 155)
Mud's base power down to 80 (from 100)
Fixed overworld enemies around Dekhan Plateau
Enemies in Dekhan Plateu, South Indra and Madra Catacombs give more Exp and Coins
Minor stat fixes to many early to mid game weapons
Jupiter Djinn in Yampi: -3 SPD (L10 Sheba outspeeds it now)
Briggs, Pirate +atk
Slightly tweaked a few learning levels (mostly MT healing and high-end spells)
Boss Hydra slighly weaker (less AoE, more venom)
Fixed Isaac's attack growth in TBS (typo reported b ShiFT)

Ps. curious stuff: whenever i checked the class doc in the past 2 months, there were 2-4 people online reading it with me. I don't think it ever happened in those 3 years and half, it makes me wonder if there's something going on that i'm unaware of, lol.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on October 05, 2018, 01:46:28 AM
I liked the eastern sea coin shortage since it made shopping choices more meaningful. It could be worth making rusty forging cheaper though since they have the downside of making you go all the way back to Yallam. You have essentially infinite money after Lemuria which is bad, so you may want to consider heavily reducing the cost (and sell value) of the fountain items.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 05, 2018, 04:04:55 PM
I think prices should still reflect the overall strength of an item so i don't think i'll make specific tweaks. What can i do is:

- Increase all the prices. The growth is quadratic so the early game (up to level 20-25) will be left mostly untouched, with much greater effects in the mid to late game. The effectiveness of this depends on how many items you have to buy/craft vs the ones you find (free).

- Reduce the amounts of Lucky Medals found before Lemuria.

Btw i just finished Lemuria and i stand at 130k coins (80k before lemuria) so what you said it's kinda true (i was already quite rich before lemuria though). Still, there's also the fact that after level 24-25 you don't have to shop anymore (it's literally find vs craft) so it's normal that the coins keep increasing.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on October 06, 2018, 03:27:08 AM
Reducing the number of lucky medals is just going to turn the fountain into a save-scumming fiesta. It's already difficult enough to try and bounce it off the turtles in just the right way to get what you want.

On forging, Sunshine charges a good amount for his pieces. It's not like you get them for free; any monetary changes are still going to affect your ability to buy whatever he makes.

You could look at potentially decreasing money drops from enemies across the entire region.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on October 07, 2018, 04:53:55 AM
I agree with VardenSalad that decreasing Lucky Medal drops would be bad. Perhaps additional shop items later in the game could help with the too much money problem.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 07, 2018, 09:51:11 PM
The more i think about it, the more it seems i won't ever reach a satisfying solution.

Coind drops from enemies are already extremely low from the western sea onwards, changing prices will only give minimal results overall (cause you increase the price of free stuff as well and you always get 75% of that back when you resell), and i think i'm out of space in shops: I already added zodiac wand in Shaman village, Kikuichimonji in Contigo and Viking Axe in Prox.

I might have 1 rusty weapon to reassingn, and i'm thinking of using it on the Lightning Sword: this will probably give the best results out of any other change i can do since it's a net -13k coins.

I'll probably still do the price rebalance cause until now i always winged it and following a function seems more proper.

EDIT: Other things i'm considering: make Ker's Weight forgeable from Darkmatter, swap Laevateinn and Rune Blade, put the first in a chest in magma rock, the other from mythril silver (to space them out more).

This is all minor stuff though: the change i feel the most it should be done is to have a lv ~37 jupiter mace. But to do that i also need another lv ~33 mace. I can make the latter and upgrade the Hagbone mace. Maybe upgrade Thanatos for the former?

Anyway, i think i'm running out of items i want or need to change.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on October 09, 2018, 05:15:43 PM
Are status effects from weapon unleashes luck-dependent? Aren't you basically RNG-ing twice at that point?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 09, 2018, 06:13:50 PM
Are status effects from weapon unleashes luck-dependent? Aren't you basically RNG-ing twice at that point?
yes and yes.

Statuses are effects in the editor, and they're shared by abilities: djinn, unleashes, psynergies, items are all "abilities".

Still, most effects from unleashes are not that important (the boss is usually immune to the effect), i wanted people choose between damage from unleash or the debuff from EPAs like odissey.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Crystal Sonata on October 09, 2018, 09:55:32 PM

The problem is not the time it takes for a single playthrough. It's the ideas that pop up in my head while i'm doing one, cause they force me to start again. Changing character growth forces a restart, so does swapping djinn, weapons, changing healing effectiveness... basically any change that isn't about endgame balance only. I think i've started a  TLA playthrough at least ten times in those 3 years, and each one of those could've been the last one. Yet sometimes i had to restart from TBS.

If you're looking for testers or other help, I have some time to spare. Might make things a little easier.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on October 10, 2018, 11:20:22 PM
Thanks for the kind offer, but i really don't want people to play the mod only for the sake of reports, or it'll feel like a chore. I think you should play it if you want to enjoy another run, not only for the sake of feedback. Also at this point the feedback i need the most is my own lol.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Crystal Sonata on October 10, 2018, 11:22:45 PM
I'm going to play it either way of course, just wanted to offer the help :D

Edit: Finally found the IPS program, downloading now.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: TwilightRealm on November 17, 2018, 04:20:27 AM
I'm encountering a problem with Golden Sun Reloaded and I'm hoping I can at least alert people to it or can help me troubleshoot.  I primarily use mGBA for emulation and I'm trying to play Reloaded on it.  It runs phenomenally until a stat debuff happens, the game freezes up and I can't continue play.  It happens 100% of the time, no matter who's side the debuff happens.  I first encountered it in the 3 Thieves fight when one of them used Smoke Bomb.  It happened again when I attempted to cast Poison on an enemy.  It also happens when Ghost uses Impair, but not when Ooze uses Sticky Goo.  I can't progress without worrying about being unlucky, but I imagine that this will continue and make some bosses unable to be defeated, as they'll just freeze the game before I can do it.
I swapped over to VisualBoy Advance to bypass this, as I don't seem to encounter the problem then, but it runs very poorly, I'm not sure if it's my settings or what.  I have audio lag, where sound effects are delayed, but I also have audio speedup at random intervals.  Everything also sounds very choppy, and visually mGBA looks a whole lot better, so I'd prefer to use it. 
I use a US/Europe ROM, and I'm on a Macbook Pro 2012. 
The Reloaded hack is great!  I just can't play very long due to the possible bug.  Any ideas?  I hope people are still active on this thread.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Luna_blade on November 17, 2018, 10:53:43 AM
Given your hardware no Gameboy Advance emulator should have lag or audio trouble.
It is likely your setting in VBA that make it behave strange.
Make sure "Options>Emulator>Synchronize" is on as well as "Options>Frameskip>Throttle>No Throttle".
For the visual look, check the "Options>Filter" menu out. As well as "Options>Video>Render method".
With the filters you can apply a few effects the whole of the screen, like scanlines or smoothing out.
When looking at render methods, make sure VBA uses one that your system supports well and full. If you have screen tearing make sure Triple Buffering is on in Render Methods.

Hope that helps!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on November 17, 2018, 01:11:30 PM
In addition to what Luna said, if nothing works try with an older version of VBA. I never liked the releases from 2.0.0 onwards and i'm still using the 1.8.0 myself. As for the stat debuff thing... i'll probably look at it when i'm done with the current TLA playthrough.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: TwilightRealm on November 17, 2018, 06:35:44 PM
Thanks for the help.  I've tried an older version of VBA, it was 1.8 I believe, but the audio issues got worse and worse no matter how I played with them, but they synched correctly at least.  But now it's heavily artifacted and sounds terrible.  I've tried troubleshooting as best I can, but no avail.  When I tried the latest version of VisualBoy advance again, it just crashes when it tries to load any ROM, I don't know what's up with that.  Runs great on mGBA still, but I keep encountering the bug.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on November 17, 2018, 09:38:41 PM
I'm doing a few tests with mGBA and it looks like the issue does not happen on TLA (trying both v0.63 and v0.71beta on Win10) Could you please confirm this? If positive the solution might be closer than what we think.

EDIT: Or... try the ips patch i've added. It must be applied on top of the latest reloaded patch for TBS and it should somehow fix the glitch. Now i just need to find out why (lol) and if there aren't other issues.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: TwilightRealm on November 17, 2018, 11:30:25 PM
That little patch worked like a charm!  I was able to test it by casting Poison on the enemy party and by also having a Ghost cast Weaken on my own party, both times it would freeze previously but not with this patch applied.  I can test TLA later, but I'm a little busy at the moment to be able to sit down long enough to try some things.  Thank you so much for the rapid help, I'm so excited to keep playing now!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on November 17, 2018, 11:43:38 PM
Glad it works but keep your eyes open for other strange happenings though. What the patch does is literally bypass a jump (instead of doing A -> B -> C, it makes A go straght to C) and ATM i have no idea why it was coded with the double jump on the first place. It could be either a dumb mistake of mine that is ok to fix or something that i shouldn't have touched.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on November 19, 2018, 08:07:54 AM
I used to get audio issues with TLA as well but I switched to VBA-ReRecording on Windows 10 which works perfectly.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on November 19, 2018, 12:23:05 PM
The mGBA fix is now included in the TBS Reloaded patch (v1.71b). It looks like the fix was completely harmless since there wasn't a need to use a double jump in the first place.
Also now we know that VBA-m can handle double jumps just fine while mGBA can't.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: miner49er on November 19, 2018, 03:05:12 PM
Has anyone managed to beat Deadbeard? My party is ~lvl 27 and I don't want to move on to the next game without completing everything.

Seems like the author of the patch got rid of all the viable cheese strats like luffing him and using granite / flash. If he gets off even one impact, one of his swipe attacks is curtains for my whole squad. Looking for tips.

Otherwise, great patch so far. makes the game much more challenging.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on November 19, 2018, 10:21:18 PM
Since the issue is impact, have you already tried with dull?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: miner49er on November 19, 2018, 10:35:51 PM
Since the issue is impact, have you already tried with dull?

Yea I have. My strat was to set Issac as Shinobi and attack with helm splitter to reduce defence, while Garret Seals him with Luff and Ivan uses dull / summons / other buffs, and have Mia constaly healing. Obviously Deadbeard has a monster move now so blocking his psenergy is less effective, but the fight fells impossible without constantly using luff. The problem is that no matter who uses it, Luff seems to act after Deadbeard moves, so he can get an impact off. Either way I don't end up lasting too long, and it feels like I would run out of mana on Mia faster than I could put out enough damage with Issac auto attacks.

I'm thinking now that I need to forget about wasting a Garret's move every two turns to set Luff and rely on Break. But I wanted to hear someone elses ideas and whether its even possible to kill him at my party level.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: miner49er on November 21, 2018, 01:37:34 AM
beat him, not too much trouble in the end.

dont waste your time using luff. it makes you have 3 effective party members and Deadbeard can still get off impacts between intervals and has a monster move now.

Break is essential or his sweep attack really hurts with impact.

having two white mages, with issac as a samuri makes this fight a walk in the part. you easily outlast his PP with two heals and increasing your resistance via Ivan, and from there you can spam dull on Deadbeard, making him pose no threat. Although I did have to use a psy crystal on Ivan.

Summoning feels underpowered, and not usefull. 4 djjin earth summon did like 700 damage, and I was pulling 400s with Issacs Gaia unleash.

Giving Garret armour with mecury resist is also a good idea or storm prism really hurts.

I'd be interested in hearing anyone else's approach and their levels when they beat him.



Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: miner49er on November 21, 2018, 01:39:28 AM
Demon mail is also buffed, which is nice. for some reason in the original it reduced jupiter resist, which made it just worse than other gear, despite it being cursed.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on December 07, 2018, 11:05:51 PM
Well... Agatio and Karts make for a seriously disappointing fight (as bpat reported in june 2017) so they're gonna receive quite the boost in the next release.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on December 11, 2018, 05:41:07 AM
Hey, I noticed the Wave series disappeared. Anything happen?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on December 13, 2018, 12:08:45 AM
It was a long time ago so i don't remember clearly. I guess i just decided it was a purely cosmetic change and reverted it... or at some point i had plans for new psynergies and i needed the space...


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: miner49er on December 14, 2018, 04:55:11 PM
are you talking about the battle on jupiter lighthouse? yea that one was easy. I also found briggs pretty easy this time around for some reason. Now I just have to make a strategy for the star magician


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on December 17, 2018, 09:27:37 PM
Hey, I see that the Ailments formula has an Area Multiplier component. What is this variable or its values?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on December 17, 2018, 10:41:18 PM
https://goldensunwiki.net/wiki/Luck, under "Luck-related formulae"

0.6 for distance of one space, 0.3 for two.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on December 17, 2018, 11:44:39 PM
Ahh, I understand. Also, minor error: Knights Greaves description is boosting wind power and they give  :VenusStar: +15, at least on my version.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on December 18, 2018, 07:23:57 PM
fixed for next release, thanks


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on December 20, 2018, 07:38:18 PM
Berserk Circlet is also incorrect. No attack bonus despite the item description


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on December 21, 2018, 03:05:33 PM
fixed too. Thanks a lot for those man, keep them coming if you can. You know i don't play with the english version so it's very unlikely that i'd notice myself.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on December 21, 2018, 06:38:06 PM
Oh, no problem. I'll probably do a full run through of all the items in the editor after I finish this playthrough.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on December 23, 2018, 10:48:51 PM
Major Releases v1.72 are UP

This is the result of the first - almost - full playthrough i've managed to do in these 4 years.

The changelog is already on the download page, but i'll paste here a slightly more detailed version as well

Jenna's Inquisitor line loses Volcano, gains Raging Heat
Jenna's Guru line loses Beam, gains Juggle
Raging Heat line and Fiery Juggle are slightly stronger (BP 185 and 155)
Mud's base power down to 80 (from 100)
Vine's base power down to 70 (from 80)
Fury's base power down to 160 (from 170)
Gasp's base power down to 150 (from 160)
Slightly tweaked a few learning levels (mostly MT healing and high-end spells)
Minor stat fixes to many early to mid game weapons
Price tweaks to most weapons
Vial, potion, mist potion are weaker and cost less
Cookie is weaker (6 -> 4)
Contigo, Shaman Village, Lalivero sell Vial
Fixed overworld enemies around Dekhan Plateau
Enemies in Dekhan Plateu, South Indra, Madra Catacombs give more Exp and Coins
Jupiter Djinn in Yampi: -3 SPD (L10 Sheba outspeeds it now)
Briggs, Pirate +atk
Boss Hydra slightly weaker (less AoE, more venom)
-10% Exp/Coins by enemies from Izumo to Magma Rock
Crystal rod drop rate from chimera mage down to 1/128
Agatio and Karst are much stronger
  +30 PP each
  Death Scythe is now Mars-based
  Heat Kiss deals damage (BP 110)
  Stun Muscle x1.5 -> x1.6
  Cage deals damage and Stuns (BP 120)
  Agatio replaces Eruption with Pyroclasm
  Agatio knows a stronger High Impact, loses standard attack
  Karst loses her standard attack for Enfeeble
  Karst replaces Healing Aura for Cool Aura
  
Flame dragons are slightly weaker
  Flame Breath's BP: 170 -> 120
  Karst loses Fiery Blast, Break, gains Death Scythe, Enfeeble
  Agatio loses Rolling Flame, gains Giga Impact, Debilitate
Fixed a few descrptions and inconsistencies between TBS and TLA

From the top we have:
  • Minor buffs to two of the most underused classes of Jenna
  • Minor nerf to Mud and Vine (especially Mud, he was too good in the midgame). Gasp and Fury followed for power/level ratio
  • Various balance fixes to different parts of the game, be it enemies or item stats
  • A follow-up of the nerf to PP restoring items
  • Cookies nerf: the reason is in the base HP/PP ratio
  • Buff to Agatio and karst lighthouse version, nerf to their dragon version, respectively the easiest and hardest normal bosses of TLA

Almost full playthrough cause i'm not touching again the superbosses: they've been tested way more than other enemies and there won't be balance-only changes for them ever again.

@Varden: please note that i've done a quick check of descriptions in TLA and fixed some, in case you still want to do your own check


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on December 29, 2018, 02:08:19 AM
Patch is for English version only.

I don't play with the English one (the one i release here) cause I'm Italian and i have my personal Italian rom patched with the mod.

EDIT: this was an answer to a post that somehow disappeared


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 17, 2019, 10:30:14 PM
Hey, so I played through both GS Reloaded mods, and I really enjoyed both of them.

though, to be honest, I didn't play TBS much differently than vanilla up until Deadbeard and Fusion Dragon. With those two, I put Ivan and Mia in the Wise classes for Dual Wishing, Break, and Dull, with Garret and Isaac as Black Knights, Garret with Gaia Blade and Isaac with Wicked Mace and other Cursed Gear. Deadbeard was absolute cakewalk, especially when he ran out of PP, though Fusion Dragon gave me hell until I remembered Tonic could dispel Haunt.

TLA was much more enjoyable to play than Vanilla, however, my party ended up weirdly lopsided. Piers and Jenna were the most useful, Piers being able to take hits and decent supportive capabilities with his newfound power thanks to his new classes, and Jenna being flat out the best character in both vanilla and this mod.
Jenna wound up being a blend of Ivan and Mia, taking the best of both worlds in her Miko classline, while Sheba felt like Diet Mia rather than a better caster than Ivan.
Felix feels like Diet Garet more than Diet Isaac, while Piers is taking Garet's valuable bulk and pumping them to greater extremes and adds in more supportive capabilities with decent healing psynergy, good support psynergy, and Liquifier in his Archon (5 :JupiterStar: 4 :MarsStar: ) Classline.

I feel like the Tier 3 Party Heal Psynergies for Heal and Wish cost FAR too much PP for how little they heal relative to the massive HP Pools the characters boast and how much damage endgame enemies deal. I have Ker's Weight, Big Bang Gloves, and a Dark Robe on Jenna for 181 Venus Power in her Guardian (5 :VenusStar: 4 :MercuryStar: ) and she heals about 440-ish HP with Potent Heal for a hefty 48PP cost. at Lv.48 (829HP being the lowest and 1017HP being the highest) against the Flame Dragons, the superbosses, and Doom Dragon, 440-ish HP isn't enough to really justify 48PP. I feel that 38PP would've been a better PP Cost, and Pure Wish sitting at 48PP would've been reasonable over a tremendous 53PP cost.

Sentinel was a bore to fight since all it did was spam Spark Plasma and Break. Balrog was an interesting battle, but having summons like Zagan, Moloch, and Maegaera under your belt can make Balrog extremely deadly to face. Star Magician was easily the highlight of this mod, as I had to switch around my party and take out the Balls as fast as possible (thank god Fury Ivan has Rolling Fire to oneshot Recovery Balls). Dullahan is too much of a pain to beat for too little reward. Once I found out the Mind Ribbon was a Psynergy Item instead of a "circlet" with massive PP Regen and MaxPP Boost, I just used a glitch to get Iris and call it a day.

Now for the party:
:Jenna: - Guardian 5 :VenusStar: 4 :MercuryStar:
Even in this mod, Jenna is still the best character in the game. Like mentioned before, she's a blend of Ivan and Mia, taking the best of both worlds, and then some.
Her final equip set is Ker's Weight, Demon Circlet, Big Bang Gloves, Dark Robes, Quick Boots, Trident, Angel's Ring, and Silk Bustier.
10/10. Not using her is heavily handicapping yourself.

:Piers: - Archon 5 :JupiterStar: 4 :MarsStar:
This mod has done wonders for him. Now he has Classes to actually use his Warrior Stats and equipment, and his stats sacrifice speed for wonderful bulk. I love his Archon class as it has Liquifier for an ever useful Defense Debuff, Dull & Guard to help out with reducing damage, and Boon for emergency single target healing.
His final equip set is Alecto's Mace, Mythril Helm, Riot Gloves, Erinyes Tunic, Ninja Sandals, Running Shirt, and War Ring

:Ivan: - Fury 5 :MarsStar: 4 :MercuryStar:
Ivan has ascended from best Support to 2nd Best Mage, and Fury is practically made just for him. Rolling Fire, Planetary, and Thunder Mine make use of his solid attack score, and he boasts Volcano, Plasma, and Ice for fantastic elemental coverage. Atropos' Rod with Selene's Armlet and Dark Robes gives a whopping +55 ElePower to Mars, Jupiter, and Mercury, making his AoE spells devastating. Fury gives him Impair and Weaken, though I feel that Break would've been more useful than one or both of these debuffs.
His final equip set is Atropos' Rod, Demon Circlet, Selene's Armlet, Dark Robe, Ninja Sandals, Golden Shirt, and Angel's Ring (I used cheats for 2 extra Angel's Rings cuz I really love the Cursed Mage gear~)

:Garet: - Jonin 5 :JupiterStar: 4 :VenusStar:
Ah, Garet. How good and useful you are in this mod. With enemies hitting harder, having extra bulk is super handy. Garet has the bonus of being able to hit really hard in return. I made him a Jonin primarily for Impact and Ward, though the stats may have had a hand in my decision as well.
His final equip set is Sol Blade, Warrior's Helm, Riot Gloves, Valkyrie Mail, Ninja Sandals, Sol Ring, and Running Shirt.

:Isaac: - Shogun 5 :MarsStar: 4 :JupiterStar:
In TBS mod, I slapped my Jupiter Djinn on Isaac for Paralyze. Stunning Battle Djinn was a HUGE help for dealing with the amount of damage they could do, and keep them from fleeing. Because of the nifty Ailments under his belt, I had him focus on those, which led me to making him a Shogun.
His final equip set is Darksword, Fear Helm, Terror Shield, Demon Mail, Ninja Sandals, Casual Shirt, and Angel's Ring

:Mia: - Worldwaker 5 :VenusStar: 4 :JupiterStar:
I didn't know what to really do with her, since Jenna exists and does Mia's job better than Mia and then some. Just kinda stuck her in Worldwaker and never used her again except in extreme emergencies.

:Sheba: - Pure Mage 5 :MercuryStar: 4 :VenusStar:
She was basically Diet Mia, spamming Wish until I got Isaac's gang. after that, she became my back-up Party Healer in the event Jenna couldn't use Heal.

:Felix: - Paladin 5 :MercuryStar: 4 :MarsStar:
He filled the same role Isaac did in TBS, Jupiter Djinn for stunning Battle Djinn. Once that wasn't needed, I genuinely had no clue what to do with him, so he ended up as a Paladin.

I don't think I ever touched the Class Items, as there wasn't much incentive to do so, especially since I needed to make one duplicate of the 3 class items so there wouldn't be someone with a wasted distribution of Djinn. If it were possible for you to craft a whole new Class Item and Class line for it, then that would greatly encourage players to try them out.

All in all, these mods were absolutely fantastic, and the only thing that could make me happier than a Golden Sun 4 would be a balancing mod of similar ideology for Dark Dawn. Though I can understand if you'd rather not touch upon that, since these mods alone took a VERY long time to reach where they are now lol


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 19, 2019, 05:46:14 AM
So I started replaying TLA with this mod under Hard Mode and holy moley is it Hard. But it's hard in a fun way. :happy:

Thus far I have yet to hit a painful roadblock, though King Scorpion nearly halted my tracks until I remembered about Djinn. I've been so used to never needing to Unleash Djinn, so having to remember they're always available for use is gonna be key lol :VenusSet:

As far as random encounters go, the Trolls are concerning when you first reach them, as they can easily oneshot Jenna & Sheba, possibly Felix too, with a Power Charge. :fight:

Unless Inside Air's Rock is supposed to be AFTER Piers, the new enemies there WILL viciously tear through players upon arriving before getting Piers. Those Brutal Wolves truly live up to their name, as two of them tore through Lv.13 Jenna & Sheba with 2 Fierce Fangs to both girls, doing almost 95 damage per Fang. Also the Mimic at the start of Air's Rock simply cannot be beaten upon the earliest arrival at Air's Rock. If Inner Air's Rock is supposed to be AFTER getting Piers, then I'm just gonna have to do without Maha's Djinn :JupiterSet: or the Hypno Sword...:Artifact:  :sad:

Even under Hard Mode with this mod, Tamer isn't worth using at this point, despite its wonderful bulk on Felix, and Pierrot was only handy for Deluding the Chestbeaters (with Felix Poisoning them) + spamming Juggle around Madra to earn both cash and levels. :sad:

As things are now, I'm being heavily pushed into using Jenna under Venus :VenusDjinni: for Cure + Cure Well, Felix under Mercury :MercuryDjinni: for similar reasons, and Sheba under her Jupiter :JupiterDjinni: for Boon, since having one healer can easily cost me a party member or three, and Sheba's been burning through her PP absurdly fast trying to patch up the damage we take.

:um: ...Now that I think about it, Gondowan Cliffs are more dangerous than inside Air's Rock... I might be stuck in Osenia for quite a while longer lol  :Sweat:

Still gotta take down Briggs before Gondowan, so we'll see how that goes :happy: though honestly I'm not /too/ concerned about Briggs, given how much easier the King Scorpion was once I started using Iron :VenusDjinni: to negate Sand Breath's debuff and for its Sheer Claw to do less than 100+ damage :!:

Will give more updates on Hard Mode under this mod as I slowly advance through it :happy:
Really loving the sheer challenge it's giving me. It's even more of a challenge than my Karis Solo Run of Dark Dawn where I even beat the Ancient Devil, Ogre Trolls or whatever they're called, and the Star Magician with just her :heart:

EDIT:
Finally beat the Air's Rock Mimic. I had to hit Lv.14, put Jenna under Jupiter for Paralyze with Blessed Ankh and Guardian Ring to hit 8 Luck, Sheba under Venus for Sleep, and Felix under Mercury for Cutting Edge. Had Jenna & Sheba cast Paralyze and Sleep respectively to disable the Mimic while Felix did nothing but spam Cutting Edge. Jenna alternated between Impact on Felix and Volcano, and Sheba used Punishment until the Mimic woke up/was no longer stunned.

Visiting Gondowan Cliffs was a good experience. the Monsters there are stronger than Inner Air's Rock's Brutal Wolves (Flash Ant dealt 100+ damage with a Flashing Punch), but not overwhelmingly so. Lv.14 Haruspex Sheba with Blessed Ankh and Guardian Ring has 11 Luck, so I'm gonna be banking on that for the tougher enemies.

Gonna clear out Air's Rock so I have Reveal, Maha's Djinni, and the Hypno Sword, then it's off to take down Briggs. Thanks to Maha's Djinni, I'll be able to stick Felix back in Tamer to toy around with that some more. I still think a new 4th Item Class would help fix any concerns of wasted Djinn distribution. Assuming you can and you do make a 4th Item Class, perhaps you could stick it some place between after the Necronomicon and before Poseidon, so we have ample time to toy around with those classes, and don't have to deal with someone being stuck with a useless djinn distribution.

EDIT2:
I've got several notes since the last time I edited this post, but idk if this thread is still active... :um:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 25, 2019, 12:26:31 AM
Don't know if you read the messages i left you with karma, anyway...

Glad you liked it and it's nice to see a lot of different classes (especially Fury) and the infamous cursed mage setup.
But i must say that it's strange to see jenna being praised like that and then end up in the Guardian class, which is literally a Venus Pure Mage.

Abut the MT healing, those spells absolutely deserve the high PP cost.
I didn't get the part about the class items, why do you need to duplicate one.

Also nice to see that someone is enjoying Reloaded in hard mode, given that i've never tested it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 25, 2019, 02:12:08 AM
If I wanted to use all 3 Item Classes, that essentially locks the other 5 Party Members to a very small handful of classes so nobody ends up with an odd Djinn Distribution (like, say 4 :MercuryStar: 3 :VenusStar: 2 :JupiterStar: ). A Fourth Item Class would allow One Item Class per Adept Element (example, Jenna with Acrobat, Sheba with Necromancer, Felix with Tamer, and Piers with the 4th Item Class), and thus have no wasted Djinni, and the other four Adepts would be free to use whichever classes they desire that's available within 9 Djinn of each element.

Jenna's Guardian Class is surprisingly strong. With Pyroclasm and Grand Gaia, she was slightly out-damaging Fury Ivan, and could easily patch up the party when needed.

After reading back through the posts and seeing the number of people using Double Wish/Heal Setups, yeah I agree about the High PP Costs of Party Heals. I just had PP Management issues since I only used one Wisher on the frontlines at a time lol.

Now for those notes I spoke of:

•Numb Ants can use the Djinni Sour. Is this supposed to happen?

•In Hard Mode, the Eastern Sea Mermen's Hydro Slash deals roughly 158 Damage, and can take down all party members in 2 hits at Lv.20 and higher, until they have close to, if not over, 400HP

•Hard Mode Aqua Hydra can be extremely dangerous if RNG isn't in your favor. There were several turns where it did nothing but use Slaver. Had it used Triple Chomp after at least two Slavers, it would have easily killed any party member unlucky enough to be targeted, even if they were at full health. Raging Waves is too strong, dealing roughly 168 damage per party member and can easily give an instant party wipe if used twice in the same turn.

•Hard Mode Wargolds can insta-kill any party member at Lv.20 and slightly higher with Triplestep if it gets the triple damage multiplier.

•Would it be possible to intensify Elemental Weaknesses and Resistances? Ice Horn does considerably more damage to enemies resistant to Mercury than Plasma does to enemies weak to Jupiter. Thus far, Sirens are the only Mercury Resistant enemy to take less damage from Ice Horn than from Plasma, and they're not weak to Jupiter.

•Buff Delude to block Monster Moves so it's not pointless after Chestbeaters.

•Is there an Endgame Mercury Staff?

•Dark Robe should boost MaxPP and/or have the Attack Boost from the Iris Robe for a Cursed Mage Build. As far as I can tell, Fury and Jenna's Infidel Classline are the only classes that benefit from Dark Robe as is, since those are the only Mage Classes with Attack Psynergy of three different Elements.

•Golden Accessories need to be buffed. You only get one of each, but they're quickly shoved aside due to how little usefulness they have down the road.
-Golden Shirt should boost MaxPP and Luck in addition to its MaxHP boost.
-Golden Ring should either add +10 to all ElementPower or grant +4PP Regen.
-Golden Boots should give +10-15 HP Regen and increase Agility by either 15 or ×1.2

•Herbed Shirt should be buffed to +5Def and +5HP Regen. Kinda useless for when you get it as is, and especially after reaching the Slots.

•Would it be possible to change HP Regen Armor + Accessories to regenerate HP by Percentage Values instead of fixed numbers? (example, Spirit Ring would regenerate 3% of the equipper's HP per turn instead of a measly 3HP per turn.)

•Is the intended order of playing from after Taopo Swamp going to Aqua Rock next? I went to Gaia Rock because clearing that nets me my 5th Mars Djinni, and unlockes my 6th Venus Djinni in Izumo Ruins, and 5th Jupiter Djinni at Apoji Islands.

•The Orochi's/Serpent's Mighty Press instantly killed Piers, despite doing 1 damage. This boss is already incredibly difficult. Instant Death attacks on this boss is just BS.

And some notes regarding the Item Classes:

•For Pierrot, Fire Breath is pointless when Juggle and Flame Card both exist on this Class line. Move Resistance Debuffing on to Flame Card to keep it relevant, and give Thunder Card a chance to inflict Stun.

•Necromancer could have the Weaken or Blunt Psynergy Lines replaced with new Psynergy. Ideally a Mercury and Venus element Psynergy, if possible.

•In Dragontamer, why does Minotaur not replace Troll? The Psynergy Slot wasted by Troll could be used for a stronger party heal, which would make sense, since Dragontamer has two single target heals. What is the difference between Ghost Army and Minotaur, aside from their elements?

•4th Item Class concept: One that's intended to draw enemy attacks and tank hits like a champ. Super high HP & Defense, super low PP & Agility, mediocre or good Attack. Would be perfect for Piers and Garet, especially on Hard Mode. Makes the Djinni Reflux relevant.

I brain stormed a few Psynergy Ideas for the 4th Item Class, should you decide to implement it, and have also thought up some places to put the new Item. I'll post my ideas if you're interested in them. :happy:

Oh yeah I should also note that Feizhi still refers to Hsu as Ulmuch. Can't remember if you wanted her to refer to Hsu in 3rd Person, such as "my friend," as the game prevented "Hs" ever appearing together for whatever reason. I also don't recall Kraden mentioning going back to speak to the Mayor of Dailah after helping Tavi and his friend, but I did kinda speed through that batch of dialogue lol. I'll give this a look later.

EDIT:
Just saw the Karma messages lol. I didn't get any notifications or anything like that about it, so I might have to check my settings for this site :happy:

EDIT 2:
Oh yeah, I forgot to put this with my other notes, but does Piers' Permanent Frost take up a Psynergy Slot? Or does it act like an invisible Frost Gem that's always equipped to Piers? I'm really curious about this, since I noticed he always had it, even in the Tamer class line.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 25, 2019, 02:26:53 AM
Going to sleep so i'll answer the most important ones first and edit tomorrow

Quote
•Numb Ants can use the Djinni Sour. Is this supposed to happen?
Damn it. That happened cause i work on the italian rom, and there Formic Acid and Sour have the same name (Acido). So i selected the wrong one by mistake.

Quote
•In Hard Mode, [...]
Can't do anything about HM right now, remember that reloaded it's not supposed to be played on HM. It's literally "do it at your own risk"

Quote
•Is there an Endgame Mercury Staff?
Clotho or Nebula

Quote
•Is the intended order of playing from after Taopo Swamp going to Aqua Rock next?
Yes


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 25, 2019, 02:32:35 AM
Alrighty. Then I guess my Hard Mode notes can just be considered "Warnings" for those who dare to play Reloaded Hard Mode :medal:

The Numb Ants use both Sour AND Formic Acid, so you got the right one, but added in the wrong one lol


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 25, 2019, 10:43:20 AM
Quote
•Dark Robe should boost MaxPP and/or have the Attack Boost from the Iris Robe for a Cursed Mage Build. As far as I can tell, Fury and Jenna's Infidel Classline are the only classes that benefit from Dark Robe as is, since those are the only Mage Classes with Attack Psynergy of three different Elements.
Cursed mage setup is fine as it is. It's meant to be used by a caster so you'd always pick the demonic circlet and the dark robe. the 4 element boost is there so it can be used by everyone, and 30 power boost in two elements is already huge if you compare it to the other robes. If someone wants to give a mage attack they'd go for iris and alastor, saving the angel ring for someone else

Quote
•Golden Accessories need to be buffed. [...] Herbed Shirt [...] Spirit ring
i'll probably tweak rings boots and shirts a bit for the next release, but the number will remain low for accessories.

Quote
Fire Breath is pointless [...] Move Resistance Debuffing on to Flame Card, give Thunder Card a chance to inflict Stun.
It fills a gap in learning levels. Stun is pointless at high levels, i'd be nerfing the Pierrot class as a whole by doing that.

Quote
Necromancer could have the Weaken or Blunt Psynergy Lines replaced with new (offensive) Psynergy
That would make it worse. IMHO 2 elements + debuff is better than 3-4 elements without debuffs.

Quote
In Dragontamer, why does Minotaur not replace Troll?
The Psynergy Slot wasted by Troll could be used for a stronger party heal, which would make sense, since Dragontamer has two single target heals.
What is the difference between Ghost Army and Minotaur, aside from their elements?
There's a mistake in the fact that i switched around Ghost Soldier and Minotaur (harmless but whatever). Troll has always been the last in its own line.
Balance would be an issue. Tamer is a physical attacker with jack of all trades vibes. Its healing shouldn't be that good.
You can check this kind of stuff with the editor. Minotaur has a higher multiplier but no effect, ghost soldier has a lower multiplier but can ignore 50% of defense.

Quote
4th Item Class concept: One that's intended to draw enemy attacks and tank hits like a champ
I lack unique looking psinergies for a 4th element class but i'd love a "cover" move for defensive classes. But that again would require coding it from scratch.

Quote
does Piers' Permanent Frost take up a Psynergy Slot? Or does it act like an invisible Frost Gem that's always equipped to Piers?
The latter. It's innate to him, like Move or Retreat.

let me know if you spot mistakes in dialogue as that's the only way for me to fix them. But like you said, i can't do anything about Ulmuch though.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 25, 2019, 03:15:05 PM
Hmm. That makes sense for the Dark Robe. I do tend to have a bad habit of viewing the individual pieces instead of the whole set lol. :Sweat:

Obviously accessories shouldn't give enough stats to outright substitute armor, but I still think it's a shame at just how little usefulness the Golden Accessories have, considering the amount of hassle you have to go through to get them (basically 100% TBS and transfer one of the longest Passwords ever).
Despite only getting one Herbed Shirt, it's surprisingly weak as it is.

Hmmm... I dunno if giving Resistance Debuff to Flame Card and giving Stun to Thunder Card would nerf Pierrot, but I think Flame Card should have SOME kind of secondary effect so it's not completely useless down the road.

I wouldn't say Stun is completely useless at high levels though. In my completed file, I still used stun to stop enemies that used Instant Death, since I can't reliably take them out in Round 1 before they get a turn. It's gonna be even more helpful in HM where dying is a very real problem.

I wouldn't say removing a debuff line for a new attack psynergy would make Necromancer worse, per se. I personally have never found any reason whatsoever to use the Weaken Psynergy line, since Psynergy now does a crapton of damage, especially at high levels. Not to mention Thunder Mine and Thunder Card both debuff Resistance, both of which are FAR more useful than the Weaken Psynergy Line. I think Necromancer would benefit from a Mercury Attack Psynergy that isn't Call Zombie, and could attempt to inflict Haunt.

For Tamer, I saw it more of a bulky utility class, what with having three healing Psynergies, a PP Recovery psynergy, and a Revive. I was gonna suggest a Stronger MT Heal for this class to restore maybe 300 base HP, until I checked and saw how pathetically weak the Aura Psynergy line is...

I've already thought of using graphics/animations from Djinn and Monster Moves for a 4th Item Class. I had even considered the possibility that such a class wouldn't be possible within the game's mechanics, so no worries if you can't figure out how to make it work, if you decide to make it.

Alrighty! I'll keep an eye out for dialogue mistakes from here on out. I look forward to seeing what else you bring to this mod! :happy:

EDIT:
I just thought of a way to fix Fire Breath's redundancy in Pierrot. Would it be possible to change it to Aqua Breath? Making it Mercury Element would make it stand out and give Pierrot a way to hit Mercury Weakness until Frost Card is learned.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on January 25, 2019, 08:16:00 PM
For what it's worth, I don't know if Aqua Breath (or almost any monster ability, but this one specifically) has an icon for the ability, since it's normally a move monsters use so you can never access it in a menu, so a new icon would need to be created. There's also a wide variety of breath moves at different power levels, if I remember correctly, so one would be able to pick any of them and not have to create another move.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 25, 2019, 10:01:50 PM
Honestly, I think any Non-Mars Elemental Breath would replace Fire Breath just nicely. Pierrot having three separate Attacking Mars Psynergies just seems kinda redundant, and the class is very lacking in Mercury Psynergy for most of the game.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 26, 2019, 06:18:56 PM
So, I went to the Ankohl Ruins after Aqua Rock so I could snag a few extra Star Dusts and a Virtuous Armlet before tackling Gaia Rock again, and I've hit a pretty alarming snag.

I'm trying to RNG Drop a Virtuous Armlet (gave up on Star Dust for now since Sheba flat out can't hurt the Living Armors with my current Jupiter Djinn), but no matter what I do, the Virtuous Armlet won't drop.

First Strike against Cerberus + Orc Lord (1RN)

Sheba casts Tornado on Cerberus (+4RNs)
Jenna casts Cycle Beam on Cerberus (+4RNs)
Felix casts Punji Trap on Cerberus (+4RNs)
Piers casts Hail Prism on Cerberus (+4RNs)
Total RNs = 17

Turn 2

Cerberus attacks Piers (+1RN)
Sheba casts Tornado on Cerberus (+4RNs)
Jenna casts Cycle Beam on Orc Lord because focusing Cycle Beam on the Cerberus would kill it too soon (+4RNs)
Felix Defends (+0RNs)
Orc Lord uses Brute Strength on Felix (+1RN?)
Piers uses Mercury Djinni on Cerberus (+3RNs)
Cerberus Dies (+1RN for death on 31RNs)

Turn 3
Sheba kills Orc Lord with Punishment or Stun Cloud unleash from Cloud Wand

No Virtuous Armlet, and I've tried this with all three attack Mercury Djinns. I can't figure out what's going wrong.

EDIT:
I got one to drop via RNG, but I had to rig for a different encounter. here's what I did:
Everyone in their Base Class line at Lv.24
First Strike against Skull Warrior + Cerberus!
Sheba used Tornado on Cerberus
Jenna used Cycle Beam on Cerberus
Felix used Punji Trap on Cerberus
Piers used Hail Prism on Cerberus

Turn 2
Cerberus attacks Jenna
Sheba casts Tornado on Cerberus
Skull Warrior attacks Felix
Jenna casts Debilitate on Cerberus (lands on both enemies)
Felix casts Bravery on Piers
Piers unleashes Fog on Cerberus, killing it.

Turn 3
Sheba casts Punishment on Skull Warrior
Skull Warrior uses Bone Charge on Sheba
Jenna casts Fume on Skull Warrior
Felix casts Ragnarok on Skull Warrior, killing it.

Virtuous Armlet drops after battle.

It seems that Fog (and possibly Sour & Chill) has an extra RN Value for its attempt to inflict Delude, and that RNG Drops only work with specific enemy formations.

EDIT 2:
Is there any possible way to get a Spirit Armlet legitimately before Isaac's gang rejoins with Felix's? Jenna would love the extra Venus power for Heal and her Venus Attack Psynergy when I get around to tackling Poseidon.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 26, 2019, 10:41:19 PM
Quote
The whole Fire Breath thing
The only reason Fire Breath is Fire, is cause it fits with the theme of the class and since it's only a mid tier spell the element never bothered me.

Quote
I'm trying to RNG Drop a Virtuous Armlet
From a quick glance it seems you're not adding turn RN (1x each enemy)

Quote
Spirit Armlet legitimately before Isaac's gang rejoins with Felix's? Jenna would love the extra Venus power
Spirit Armlet is sold at Loho. For Venus boosts you have the bone armlet in the Western Sea

BTW i'm reworking bonuses from equipment after the recent suggestions i've read here and that Role sent me.
Mostly a rebalance to the power level of Shirts Rings and Shoes and of the boosts to Agility, Crits and Ailments.
Nothing major though, just tweaking the numbers.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 26, 2019, 11:15:26 PM
I figured the turn actions and Monster Actions were considered the same RN numbers (1RN for their turn total regardless of actions). However, monsters like the Magicore seem to prove otherwise with AoE Psynergy. I went to Tundaria SUPER early in hopes of RNG'ing a Mystery Glove, in addition to snagging Wheeze. Thus far, I've gotten nothing.
Lv.24 everyone in base class lines
First Strike vs Magicore + Minotaurus (1RN)

Sheba casts Tornado on Magicore (+4RNs)
Jenna casts Debilitate (+2RNs)
Felix casts Bravery on Piers (+1RN)
Piers casts Hail Prims on Magicore (+4RNs)

Turn 2 (+2RNs)
Magicore casts Cycle Beam hitting Sheba and Piers (+4RNs?)
Minotaurus attacks Piers (+1RN?)
Sheba casts Tornado (+4RNs)
Jenna casts Impair on Magicore (+1RN)
Felix casts Ragnarok on Magicore (+2RNs)
Piers unleashes Fog on Magicore (+3RNs +1RN for Delude chance?)
Magicore Dies (+1RN for a possible? total of 31RNs on death)

Turns after kill Minotaurus
No Mystery Glove.

I've tried a whole bunch of other things for Turn 2, but it either ends up with no Mystery Gloves or the Magicore not dying. I might go to Treasure Island to rig a Crystal Rod for Sheba and a Sylph Feather or three to forge a Sylph Rapier for Felix and maybe Piers, along with a Faerie's Vest for Jenna.

Ah, Spirit Armlet's locked at Loho? Kind of a shame, considering Virtuous Armlet is available for MUCH longer. I don't think I'm strong enough to give up Dual Wishing just yet, especially with the Serpent coming up fast, so the Virtuous Armlet might not see much use.

I look forward to seeing the tweaks you're implementing! :happy:


EDIT:
So, I tried rigging a Mystery Glove to drop on my completed file to see if it's worth going after, but it's not dropping?

First Strike against Magicore + 2 Minotauruses (+1RN)
Jenna uses Sleep Card (+3RNs), Sleeps both Minotauruses
Piers uses Ester Wood (+8RNs)
Garet uses Tempest (+6RNs)
Mia uses Poison Flow (+6RNs) poisons Magicore and middle Minotaurus (does this add any extra RNs?)

Turn 2 (+3RNs)
Jenna uses Gel/Serac/Hail (+3RNs) on Magicore, killing it (+1RN)
Rest of party defends
Minotaurus A dies of Venom
Minotaurus B is Asleep.

Turn 3
Minotaurus B gets killed

Vial is dropped.

Were the Mystery Gloves removed from the Magicores or am I doing the RN Math wrong?

EDIT 2:
Never mind the last sentence of my previous edit. I got a Mystery Glove to Drop. I did the same thing, but had Mia cast Dire Inferno instead of Poison Flow. I think the Minotaurus dying from Venom somehow overwrote the Mystery Gloves guaranteed drop? It's weird, but that aside I got my answer about the Mystery Gloves. I think I'll get a couple so the girls can hit harder with elements besides Mercury/Venus, while still keeping some extra Mercury/Venus Power so they're at least healing HP equal or close to the base power of their MT Heals.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 27, 2019, 12:04:35 AM
You can easily check drops with the Golden Sun Editor: you dropped a Vial from a Minotaur, so you're doing something wrong. Stick to healing, psynergy and buffing for manipulating RN, no need to make things more complicated.

BTW i just tested drops and there's a minor issue with certain djinn (those that reduce atk-def-res as a side effect). Those djinns add 1 RN more compared to vanilla. Easily fixed by using another djinn or by compensating for that 1 RN more by using different abilities.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 27, 2019, 12:21:15 AM
I was using Poison Flow because I wasn't sure if Dire Inferno would kill the Magicore too soon.

Huh. that's a peculiar bug. I suppose that's handy to know in case I hit spots where I'd be one RN Short with a normal Djinni kill. I'll give the Magicore + Minotaurus another spin in my HM file to see if I can get it to drop Mystery Gloves.

EDIT:
Gave up on trying to rig Mystery Gloves, and I can't get a Crystal Rod or Sylph Feather to drop. I think the issue as of now is that my party is simply too slow to use RNG manipulation. I can't outspeed any of the enemies I'm trying to RNG abuse, and that greatly screws with the RNs, since I can't tell if the Monsters' actions add RN values or not.

Do you know if the Guaranteed Drop RN Value was changed or not? because with the bug that has Stat Debuffing Djinn add an RN Value, I'm getting Mystery Gloves on 32RN in my completed file, using the strategy in my last post (with Mia using Dire Inferno instead of Poison Flow).

Huh... that's really bizarre... in the encounter I listed for my completed file, I get the Mystery Gloves if Mia casts Dire Inferno which leads to Garet killing the middle Minotaurus via Tempest. BUT if she casts Fiery Abyss instead, the middle Minotaurus survives Garet's Tempest, and I don't get the Mystery Gloves, even though I should have the same number of RNs at the time of killing the Magicore with Hail (32RNs). I REALLY don't understand TLA's RNG...


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 27, 2019, 10:32:47 AM
Just read this thoroughly: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gba/561356-golden-sun-the-lost-age/faqs/25734

There's no way you can't drop stuff if you stick to it. More so if you don't use stat-debuffing djinn for the kill (due to the +1 RN bug)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 27, 2019, 01:08:49 PM
Reading that is how I learned that enemies are guaranteed to add extra RNs, regardless if they get a chance to act or not, unlike TBS (i think?).

Oddly enough, using Hail, a Stat Debuffing Djinni, is the one who scored the Mystery Gloves for me. But for whatever reason, if Minotaurus A survives the Preemptive Strike, I don't get the Mystery Gloves, despite having the same number of RNs. (+1RN extra in Turn 1 due to Minotaurus A dying and +2 at the start of Turn 2 for 2 Monsters living, vs +0RN extra in Turn 1 and +3RN in Turn 2 for 3 Monsters living.) That part just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

EDIT:
I think I have an idea of what's going on. I'm guessing the RNG, or whatever system determines which monster drops their item, is checking if Minotaurus A, the Middle Monster of the enemy formation, dies on the 31st/32nd RN if it's still on the field by the time the 31/32RN Kill comes around. Death by Poison must not add an RN value, because doing the strategy I've listed previously with Mia using Poison Flow instead of Dire Inferno in Turn 1, I get a guaranteed Vial Drop, which is the Minotaurus Drop Item. I'm not entirely sure about this, but it's the best explanation I can think of why one method of 32RN Drop gets me the Mystery Gloves, but two others either get me nothing or a Vial.

Also I tried doing this method with Fog (meaning 31RNs at Magicore death), and got nothing each time. I think something bugged and bumped the guaranteed drop RN Value to 32, or Fog is one of the bugged Djinn that add an extra RN and Hail isn't. I can test to see which other Mercury Djinn produce the Mystery Gloves and which ones don't, if you'd like.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on January 29, 2019, 01:07:34 AM
Yeah, I just made equipment and weapons drops 1:1 and threw away the extras. I treat rare drops as unique items anyways, so pitching the extras just works. Grinding out rare drops adds xp and RNG manip adds hard resets, frustration, and too much djinn rearrangement to make sure everyone is fast enough for just one item, imo.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 29, 2019, 01:18:09 AM
Yeah, I'm gonna do something like that. Use a cheat to force Mystery Gloves and a Crystal Rod to drop. Being too slow to even have a chance to outspeed the monsters I'm abusing, and given that I've got proof that 31RNs doesn't guarantee the drop in this mod (all stat-debuffing Mercury Djinn net me a Mystery Glove at 32RN in my RNG Manipulation Testing Encounter with a Magicore and two Minotauruses thanks to their bugged extra RN value, but Fog, Serac, and Mist don't cause the Mystery Gloves to drop), I don't think I'll be able to get these pieces of equipment at a reasonable time for them to be worth getting under more normal circumstances.

EDIT:
So, I spawned a couple of Mystery Gloves into Sheba's inventory, and I noticed that they're defensively weaker than the Virtuous Armlet, which you'd get sooner according to Cerberus being 2 levels lower than Magicore, meaning you'd go to Ankolh Ruins before Tundaria Tower. This kinda contradicts the Golden Rule you stated on the first post of this thread, that new equipment is always statistically/generally better than old equipment, but it's only a minor gripe. If you decide to change this, a simple fix would be to swap Cerberus' and Magicore's drop item, so you're more likely to get the Mystery Gloves first.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 29, 2019, 04:16:37 PM
EDIT:
So, I spawned a couple of Mystery Gloves into Sheba's inventory, and I noticed that they're defensively weaker than the Virtuous Armlet, which you'd get sooner according to Cerberus being 2 levels lower than Magicore, meaning you'd go to Ankolh Ruins before Tundaria Tower. This kinda contradicts the Golden Rule you stated on the first post of this thread, that new equipment is always statistically/generally better than old equipment, but it's only a minor gripe. If you decide to change this, a simple fix would be to swap Cerberus' and Magicore's drop item, so you're more likely to get the Mystery Gloves first.

The Golden Rule is valid when comparing items of the same type. Gloves have inherently weaker defense than Bracelets acquired in the same point of the game, like long swords and light blades, or heavy armor and robes


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 29, 2019, 05:34:49 PM
Alrighty. Though due to the Mystery Gloves being available later than the Virtuous Armlet and when farming Star Dusts becomes available, the Mystery Gloves are completely pointless. Both guys have the Luna Shield for PP Regen and the Planet Armor if they want extra Elemental Power, while the girls would rather have the Virtuous Armlet for stronger offense under their Jupiter/Mars classlines, or Sheba would rather have the Clear Bracelet for stronger Wishing.

Speaking of Star Dust items, the Comet Mace is REALLY bad, to the point where it's not worth even considering getting. The Astral Circlets and Luna Shields alone take higher priority for use of the three free Star Dusts you get, and by the time you can farm Living Armors for more, you have the Demon's Mace, the Mist Saber, and the Rusty Longsword from Aqua Rock. Even if you did decide to get it instead of Astral Circlets or Luna Shields, Aqua Rock REALLY knocks down its usefulness since Mercury Power is the least desirable thing on your warriors at that point. Plus Sheba likely has the Cloud Wand at this point, which is more useful thanks to the MaxPP Boost.

Anywho, I finally beat Gaia's Rock on HM, but that damn Serpent managed to get off an Instant Kill Mighty Press on Sheba RIGHT before he died... bastard... :fury:

EDIT:
tacking this bit onto this post to avoid double posting-

Which of Jenna's tri-element Classes are supposed to parallel Ivan's/Mia's/Sheba's Tri-Element classes? I know Guardian is Pure Mage, and I'm pretty certain Incantrix equals Fateweaver. But I can't tell if Heretic or Valkyrie was supposed to parallel Fury and the other Worldwaker. Though Heretic and Valkyrie strongly feel like Fury was broken into two separate classes for Jenna, Heretic coming away rather okay, but Valkyrie suffering so horribly it feels like a rushed/unfinished class. two EPAs and ONE Attack Psynergy is all Valkyrie has, making it easily Jenna's worst Class. I really don't have any clue what your goal was with Valkyrie, but as it is, there's absolutely no reason to use it.
As it stands, Jenna's best parallel to Fury is Pierrot, which isn't a good thing.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 30, 2019, 12:07:20 AM
Don't try to force parallels. Valkyrie is obviously the mage warrior hybrid like Fury, Jonin and General are, but it's more defensive while Fury is all about offense.

Valkyrie is easily the worst caster among mages and has lowish attack (even though it's only 5% less than Fury) but can: Revive, ST Heal, Debuff (with EPAs), Buff, Break and heal ailments. It's unparalleled at support.

Incantatrix is... and oddball. If this wasn't golden sun it'd be an anti-mage mage that can do a bit of everything. Sort of like a master of magic (that's the concept behind it). The rest can easily be seen: highest PP multiplier paired with Fume, AOE healing, self sustain with the drains, ward, weaken and bind for support. The best parallel would be calling it a Mars Arcanist.

Heretic is Fury in pure caster form: all on offense. Second best offensive caster (190% + Punishment) right behind Necromancer (190% + Call Dullahan).

Guardian: Venus Pure mage. Nuff said.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 30, 2019, 12:27:41 AM
Hmm... I see.

Does replacing Cure Poison and Restore into Remedy free up a Psynergy slot? Because if so, I think Valkyrie would benefit greatly from a Quick Strike-type Psynergy or something like Fury's Rolling Fire, to fill in the free slot.

Incantrix really is an oddball. It does indeed look useful, but I can't really think of a scenario of when I'd use it outside of boss battles. Sadly, Bind probably won't be any good against bosses lol

I might use Jenna as a Cursed Heretic this time around, though that means Sheba/Ivan and Mia will likely shoved into Wishing Classes to make up for Jenna's lack of an AoE heal.

Guardian is just fantastic. A very fantastic class.

While on the topic of Jenna's classes, would it be possible to replace Miko's Thorn with Punji? The Thorn Psynergy line is pretty weak, though it's clear that Jenna's Miko Classline is inspired by Himi's Venus Classline, so I can understand if you'd rather not change it.

Also I came up with more ideas for a 4th Item Class, if you're still interested in making one.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on January 30, 2019, 05:21:32 PM
Does replacing Cure Poison and Restore into Remedy free up a Psynergy slot? Because if so, I think Valkyrie would benefit greatly from a Quick Strike-type Psynergy or something like Fury's Rolling Fire, to fill in the free slot.
Yes but i don't think i will for balance reasons. Jack of all trades shouldn't have access to the highest tiers.

While on the topic of Jenna's classes, would it be possible to replace Miko's Thorn with Punji? The Thorn Psynergy line is pretty weak, though it's clear that Jenna's Miko Classline is inspired by Himi's Venus Classline, so I can understand if you'd rather not change it.
Same as above, but i also have an excel sheet where i tried to balance offense and heal for each MT healer

As for the 4th item class i have no plans to make one for the time being


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on January 30, 2019, 05:56:34 PM
If you consider Remedy a highest tiered Psynergy, I'm a little confused by that, considering I had very little reason, if any, to use Remedy towards the end of the game. If a Quick-Strike type Psynergy or something like Rolling Fire are considered highest tiered Psynergy, then perhaps Valkyrie could have a third debuffing EPA? If I remember right, Odyssey lowers Defense while Plume Edge lowers attack. If not a debuffing EPA, then perhaps Planetary could be her third EPA? Without something for raw physical damage like Fury got with Rolling Fire and Planetary, Valkyrie just lacks purpose for any team, since most other Mage Classes fill that supportive role FAR better with larger PP Pools, along with better ways to deal damage when Support isn't needed.

I don't really see how keeping Thorn over Punji is for balance purposes when Sheba under Mercury is doing huge damage with Shine Plasma and Ice Horn, both almost as strong as Unleashes around the middle to end of the Eastern Sea.

That's a shame about the 4th Item Class, but understandable, considering you'd have to code it from scratch.

EDIT:
I figured I should give my point of view on Support Classes to better explain my disappointment with Valkyrie.

In my opinion, a good/"ultimate" support class has valuable support skills that ONLY THEY can use.
The Bard and Chemist Jobs from Final Fantasy 5 are probably my favorite examples of great support classes that aren't dedicated healers.

Bards can put HP Regen on the entire party within a single turn at zero MP Cost, while other Jobs would need multiple turns to do the same while using a fair amount of MP or rather rare items. Bard can also drastically increase the party's stats given enough time, but nothing of value is lost should the battle end sooner than expected. Chemist can do the same through its Mix Command, but a prematurely ended battle leads to a waste of some very precious Mixing items.

Meanwhile Chemist has a whole array of supportive capabilities through their Mix command, many of which can ONLY be done through Mixing. A Chemist can grant a Buff to any party member that amplifies ALL Elemental Damage they put out. They can place Berserk, Haste, and Image (a special buff that flat out negates 2 physical attacks to the character) on a party member with a single turn.

They may seem overpowered, however neither Job will be able to take on the entire game themself.

I believe that if you want Valkyrie to be an "Ultimate" Support type class, then she needs something(s) that ONLY she can do, and for that thing(s) to be considerably useful.

Heck, my new ideas for the 4th Item Class were intended for making an Ultimate Support-type Class, as it would have very few direct attacks, but a multitude of Supportive Buffs that only it could do (outside of Djinn and Summoning).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 01, 2019, 09:29:56 PM
I meant highest tier in its own category, you can see i haven't given the upgrade to Remedy to all those who have access to CP+Restore.
There is merit on what you say about the valkyrie though, so i'm considering 1-2 buffs to it, but it won't be easy considering how picky i am.

BTW i know i'm partial to jenna so i'd like to hear opinion on piers' classes as well


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 01, 2019, 10:00:57 PM
Valkyrie really needs a buff or two, considering nearly every class in the game, along with their grandmothers, can buff and/or heal like she can, if not better.

As for Piers' classes

General:
I really like this class, but seeing the Ray psynergy line kinda threw me off. I would've liked to see Cool return here over Ice, since it got replaced by Wave then by Prism in his Base Class line (what happened to Wave, anyway?). I find it strange for this class to have Gaia, seeing as how Gaia has become FAR more common than it used to be, and while it's sporting Ray, one of the weakest/weaker Jupiter Psynergy lines.

Holy Knight:
Nothing much to really say here. It's essentially Jupiter Dragoon. Solid, but Piers has better options.

Archon:
This class succeeds where Current-Valkyrie fails. Quick Strike gives this class a very strong move for damage, Liquifier for a Defense Debuff and Mars Damage, solid ST healing, and a Buff & Debuff that work very well together to reduce incoming damage.

Destroyer:
This is a gorgeous offense-oriented class. Diamond Berg and Thunder Mine for EPA Debuffs, and Meltdown to deal incredible damage. Boasting Impact+Impair to help boost the damage output, and self sustain through Drain+Psy Drain, this class is very well built. I feel that the Nova or Fire Psynergy lines replacing the Blast Psynergy would perfectly round out this class' kit, since Blast is far too weak to take up a Psynergy Slot on such a high tier class.

Honestly, I think the only possible way Piers could get any better is if there was a Draw Attacks mechanic he could use, so his wonderful bulk would get even better mileage against physical enemies.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 01, 2019, 10:20:17 PM
Quote
General:
I find it strange for this class to have Gaia, seeing as how Gaia has become FAR more common than it used to be, and while it's sporting Ray, one of the weakest/weaker Jupiter Psynergy lines.

I grant psynergy lines based on power and how much i think a class is inclined toward casting. General is a warrior mage hybrid (again, along Fury, Ninja and Valkirie), so it's supposed to be the best caster among warriors. I also wanted each of those classes to focus on a different element. Ninja is wind, Fury is fire, Valkyrie is water and General is earth. "must be good at casting" and Venus -> Gaia

Quote
Destroyer:
I feel that the Nova or Fire Psynergy lines replacing the Blast Psynergy would perfectly round out this class' kit, since Blast is far too weak to take up a Psynergy Slot on such a high tier class.

Same reasoning as above, but on the opposite side of the spectrum. Destroyer is a tri-elemental chaos lord, a purely physical class, so it's horrible at casting.

Quote
Honestly, I think the only possible way Piers could get any better is if there was a Draw Attacks mechanic he could use, so his wonderful bulk would get even better mileage against physical enemies.
I'd love that too.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 01, 2019, 10:43:25 PM
That makes sense for them. Still curious as to what happened to Wave, though.

Does Jenna have access to the Fire Psynergy in any Class line besides her Disciple(Jupiter) Class? I'm pretty sure she flat out doesn't have access to Nova yet she has Blast in her Mercury Class, which I find rather strange. I really like the graphics for Nova and Fire, so it's kinda sad that they're pretty rare, particularly for Jenna.

EDIT:
So I looked at the document you linked under the Classes tab on the first post of this thread to see if Fire or Starburst are on any Mage Classes (sadly, only Fire exists on Jenna's Jupiter class. no other Mage Class gets Fire and none have Starburst), and I noticed something peculiar with Jenna's Guru and Inquisitor classes.

The Document states that Guru should have Juggle but it has Beam instead, and Inquisitor should have Raging Heat but it has Volcano instead.

Did you scrap the idea to have those Psynergies on those respective classes?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 02, 2019, 02:06:19 AM
update to v1.72

about wave: i wanted it cause it was cool and fit piers' water theme, but then i found out that i didn't really need a mercury psynergy stronger than prism, and decided that it wasn't worth it


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 02, 2019, 02:50:40 AM
Updating is a scary thought since I'm playing on mobile and I'm worried about losing all my progress lol

Ah, okay. That makes sense.

On a different note, I'm SUPER THANKFUL for Sanctum Warping because I had forgotten to snag the Center Prong from Tundaria Tower while I was there, and I remembered it after I had chased Briggs to Champa...

Avimander was easier than the Serpent since it didn't regenerate HP or heal itself for 500+HP.... though it did kill Sheba just before it died.... now Sheba has stolen Piers' title of slowest level rate... ha ha ha.....

I'm terrified to fight Poseidon, honestly.

By the way, what's the damage formula for the Trident? is it like Base Damage Psynergy? Because if so and it has a fairly high BasePower, Heretic Jenna and Necromancers would have a considerably powerful Mercury "Psynergy" to use.

EDIT:
Whoops, nevermind about a "strong Mercury Psynergy." Just found out that the Trident isn't Mercury Based lol :Sweat:

EDIT 2:
I do believe I've hit the end of Reloaded HM. Poseidon is horrendously overpowered, effortlessly tearing through the party's HP Pool with attacks doing 150-280+ damage along with THREE actions per turn, and an absurd amount of HP to where it is most likely impossible to outlast his huge damage output to somehow pull out a victory. Not even buffs can save me from Poseidon's ridiculous damage output. If we could hit him with Status Ailments, then MAYBE this fight would be possible. But as it stands, Poseidon is where HM Reloaded ends unless you do an absurd amount of level grinding, and I mean ABSURD. I'm not even sure if my Lv.48 Party in my completed file would be able to beat Poseidon with Late Eastern Sea gear.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 02, 2019, 06:40:05 AM
I'm surprised to see Piers performing so well for you. He was easily my worst party member throughout almost all of the eastern sea because he lacked good offense Psynergy (Hail Prism comes too late) and had worse attack than Felix. Late game I didn't feel like I needed a hybrid and no matter what I did he felt worse than the other warriors in physical classes and way worse than the mages in the more hybrid classes. At least he made a solid Dragontamer but that class line is horrible until very late game. What classes have you been running him in the mid game, especially around the eastern sea?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 02, 2019, 02:28:19 PM
I've been running Globetrotter (Jupiter) on him since it helps out his speed, gives him Boon, Diamond Dust, Astral Blast, and Impact. Piers' biggest asset his is incredible bulk, which is very helpful at some of the tougher spots in the game. Now that I have 6 of each Elemental Djinn, I'm having him run Renegade for extra attacking power.

The Tamer Class is fine throughout the game imo. Its main flaw is the odd Djinn Distribution it requires, especially since there's only 3 Item Classes.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 03, 2019, 04:55:22 PM
If you have tips for Piers' classes now is a good time cause I'm getting ready to release the next version


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 03, 2019, 05:33:53 PM
As far as Piers' classes go, there really isn't much I would change, aside from maybe giving General the Cool Psynergy instead of Ice.

As for people playing Reloaded, I highly suggest running Piers under Jupiter to help him catch up with the party, so he's not acting at the end of the turn (unless it's a Djinni Battle, in which case, put Felix under Jupiter for Paralyze and Piers under Mars for better damage).

Once you get all of the Eastern Sea Djinn (excluding the one in Lemuria), have Felix run Shinobi (3 :MarsStar: 3 :JupiterStar: ) and Piers run Renegade (3 :MarsStar: 3 :JupiterStar: ) so Jenna and Sheba can run Dual Wish/Heal so Poseidon isn't overwhelmingly difficult.

After Poseidon, what you want Piers as is pretty much up to you. After all, once you beat Poseidon, you've pretty much beaten TLA up until the Twin Flame Dragons.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 03, 2019, 11:54:15 PM
I'm not sure exactly how to fix these issues but Piers has noticeably worse physical damage, offense Psynergy, and speed than Felix for a long stretch for most of the Eastern Sea making him pretty bad for this stretch of the game in my experience. After that he becomes a bit better since he's the closest thing to a hybrid but I don't think hybrid is a particularly valuable niche to have.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 04, 2019, 01:08:44 AM
By the way, would it be possible to change the forging to let us choose what item we get forged instead of RNG deciding what Sunshine forges, to remove the save scumming to get what we want? or is that simply not possible within the game's systems? If it is possible, you could scale the prices up a bit to compensate for the change. heck, I have more cash than i know what to do with in HM, so forking over a couple hundred coins more for a Luna Shield isn't a problem, in my opinion. After Aqua Rock, the money in your wallet just seems to multiply at an astounding rate and you have like nothing to spend it on.

Picked Shining Force 2 back up and remembered just how god awful RNG Forging is...


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 05, 2019, 06:35:03 AM
It may be easier just to change the odds of getting each item to all be the same or similar so you won't have to hope for the 1/20 chance to forge Excalibur and such.

Perhaps a fourth item class could help by making it easier to run item classes without someone getting stuck with a lower tier. I have no idea what a new item class should be though.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 05, 2019, 07:03:40 AM
the forging odds have definitely been made much more favorable than they were in the base game, but it's still a pain to get the certain item you want (like two Astral Circlets instead of another crummy Stardust Ring or worse, a Comet Mace).

I had an idea for a Support/Tank hybrid for a 4th Item Class, however, Caledor has stated he has no plans to make a 4th Item Class, which is understandable since he'd have to code it from scratch.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 05, 2019, 08:55:53 PM
By the way, would it be possible to change the forging to let us choose what item we get forged instead of RNG deciding what Sunshine forges, to remove the save scumming to get what we want? or is that simply not possible within the game's systems? If it is possible, you could scale the prices up a bit to compensate for the change. heck, I have more cash than i know what to do with in HM, so forking over a couple hundred coins more for a Luna Shield isn't a problem, in my opinion. After Aqua Rock, the money in your wallet just seems to multiply at an astounding rate and you have like nothing to spend it on.

Not possible. I speed things up by checking the result from the memory viewer (address 020004FC). The resulting item is stored there as soon as you give sunshine the forging material, after that it's just a loop of F1 (load state) + A (confirm) until i know i'll get what i want. No moving, exit reenter whatever.

We discussed money issues a few pages ago. I tried for a bit and then decided that it's just not worth "fixing" it, as the amount work i need to put into it far outweights the benefits


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 05, 2019, 09:04:27 PM
Ah, that's a shame. At least it's not *as* annoying to deal with as it was in the base game.

I noticed the discussion about the overabundance of money in the game. I think the core problem is that there really isn't anything worth buying after you get what you want from Sunshine (which isn't a whole lot of stuff, mind you). Maybe if Mountain Waters could be bought from an unlimited supply, that would help mitigate the excessive money in the Eastern Sea. I had a constant issue of running out of Psynergy as I neared the end of dungeons and had to flee battles as a result. Heck, I spent a considerable amount of time exploiting areas with no encounters to regenerate PP to make it to the end of dungeons (or to fight the Serpent).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 05, 2019, 09:33:19 PM
Rough copy paste of the partial changelog for the next release

Savage bear (crossbone) replaces 1 special for standard attack
Sour bug fixed (Numb Ant)
Sentinel is a lot faster
New psynergies: Blessing and Waterspout
Lowered success rate for debuffing EPAs and 2-stage debuffs
Base power increased for psynergies learned between levels 20-35
Estre wood PP cost: +2
Bravery and Courage's icons tweaked
Tweaked the numbers of most items that buff Agility, Crits or Ailments
Changed animation and name of Caladbolg's unleash.
Full rebalance of accessories (shirts focus on def and less on boosts, rings do the opposite, boots are in the middle)
Early to mid game unleashes boosted
Minor changes to the psynergy sets of a few classes
Switched positions of Minotaur and Ghost soldier (the psynergies)

Currently working on balancing EPAs

Blessing is literally Weapon Grace, Waterspout is a mercury Quick Strike, both are for the Valkyrie line

If anyone has questions or tips, now is the time. Release is currently scheduled for the 9th


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 05, 2019, 10:00:32 PM
Out of curiosity, why buff Sentinel? It was plenty strong enough, just incredibly boring to fight since it spammed Shine Plasma and Break almost non-stop.

Blessing and Waterspout are GREATLY appreciated buffs for Valkyrie. I assume she's losing Cure Poison and Restore for those?

Would it be possible to make an upgrade to Necromancer's Fear Puppet Psynergy? It could replace Fear Puppet at the highest Class Rank of the Necromancer line, like the EPA Psynergies. It could use the same icon, graphics and secondary effect as Fear Puppet, and have roughly the same base power as Poison Flow.

I can't think of anything else to ask or suggest at the moment, but I look forward to the next update!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 05, 2019, 10:12:24 PM
Quote
Out of curiosity, why buff Sentinel? It was plenty strong enough, just incredibly boring to fight since it spammed Shine Plasma and Break almost non-stop.
Exactly because its boring. Raising speed alone increases unpredictability while leaving its strength untouched.

Quote
Blessing and Waterspout are GREATLY appreciated buffs for Valkyrie. I assume she's losing Cure Poison and Restore for those?
Bravery and Courage

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Would it be possible to make an upgrade to Necromancer's Fear Puppet Psynergy? It could replace Fear Puppet at the highest Class Rank of the Necromancer line, like the EPA Psynergies. It could use the same icon, graphics and secondary effect as Fear Puppet, and have roughly the same base power as Poison Flow.
I don't like the redundancy and also I don't think Necromancer needs another Venus spell when it already has Demon. Actually, i don't think the best offensive caster hands down needs further boosts to its offenses.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 05, 2019, 10:33:03 PM
Hmm.. Okay, though it might need some tweaking on how often it uses certain commands. If it's still spamming Shine Plasma and Break despite being faster, then it's still a boring fight.

Ah, I see. I feel that Item Classes can afford to be a bit on the "probably too strong" side, considering that using them either forces you to basically forfeit a party member, or locks the other 5 party members to a small handful of Classes.

While on the subject of Necromancer, do you think the Weaken Psynergy Line could be replaced with an AoE Psynergy Bind spell, and a Super Weaken spell?

And will Status Ailments get buffed to stay useful throughout the course of the game? or will they stay marginally useful for certain segments of the game and quickly becoming irrelevant once said segments are done?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 06, 2019, 12:19:27 AM
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Ah, I see. I feel that Item Classes can afford to be a bit on the "probably too strong" side, considering that using them either forces you to basically forfeit a party member, or locks the other 5 party members to a small handful of Classes.
This is something i want to look into. And i say look into cause i have no clue on what to actually do with it

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While on the subject of Necromancer, do you think the Weaken Psynergy Line could be replaced with an AoE Psynergy Bind spell, and a Super Weaken spell?
ATM i don't think tweaks are needed nor planned for the necromancer. Since my goal is balance and i consider the necromancer already quite strong changes for it are very low on priority. The same reasoning made me address valkyrie immediately.

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And will Status Ailments get buffed to stay useful throughout the course of the game? or will they stay marginally useful for certain segments of the game and quickly becoming irrelevant once said segments are done?
If for status ailment you mean poison and such, i'm afraid there's not much that can be done. A ton of RPGs have bosses immune to most status conditions cause otherwise they would trivialize those fights. I think Golden Sun is no exception to that.

EDIT: About item classes: I can see some decent setups though. This for example looks promising (found in the class txt)

Isaac: Dragontamer
Garet: Paladin
Ivan: Pure Mage
Mia: Arcanist
Felix: Chaos Lord
Jenna: Incantatrix
Sheba: Necromancer
Piers: Destroyer



Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 06, 2019, 12:33:15 AM
I think some bosses, namely Poseidon, absolutely do not deserve absolute status immunity. being able to hit him with Status Ailments (aside from Poison/Venom) would make the battle FAR more manageable. I stated earlier that Poseidon is where Reloaded HM ends because of how blatantly overpowered Poseidon is, and being able to hit him with Ailments might make him beatable.

A simple fix to prevent Ailments from being broken is to make bosses (excluding Chestbeaters) immune to Poison/Venom, since that would be the game breaking Status Ailment. Stun, Sleep, Psynergy Seal, and Delude would simply serve to make difficult bosses far more manageable and encourages fighting smart over fighting hard.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 07, 2019, 05:45:20 AM
Another issue with item classes is Acrobat is kinda bad. It's just an offense caster but that's not good enough when it has a horrible elemental power distribution from Djinn. To be worthwhile, Acrobat needs to have incredibly strong offense Psynergy in multiple elements (Frost card is good but not enough) since otherwise Necromancer is always going to be the better class. Also item classes' stat mods are bad, they should be probably better than the three-element classes since these classes spread your elemental powers even thinner but they have lower stat totals. It's not as bad for Necromancer since its statline is so minmaxed with a ton of PP and Agility but Acrobat and Dragontamer's stat mods hold them back.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 07, 2019, 05:59:41 AM
Acrobat's kind of a Mage-Warrior hybrid, as it has Backstab and Sword Dance for EPAs (unless those were changed to/always were Base Damage Psynergy), and Base Damage Psynergy of every element. The only flaw I can really say about its kit is its lack of elemental variety until Thunder Card is learned.

Dragontamer's gotten a nice modifier buff (at least from what I can tell), as its PP Pool is no longer godawful, and it has an actual speed score now. with two incredibly powerful EPAs, a PP Recovery Ability, and solid healing & buffing capabilities, it's a Hard Hitting Utility Class (at least that's what I would classify it as).

Also, a couple quick questions about endgame weapons:

•Is there an endgame Mercury Light Blade? I'm planning on starting a new game and using the newly buffed Valkyrie in this run, and she'd love a Mercury Light Blade for Endgame.

•Why is Ker's Weight the Cursed Staff instead of, say, Atroposis' Rod? As far as I've seen of the classes, Heretic Jenna is really the only Mage who would benefit from using it in a Full Cursed Mage build. Heck, in my first Reloaded Run, I used it to buff her Venus Power to squeeze out as much Recovery from Potent Heal as possible to help make up for its hefty PP Cost on one Frontline MT Healer.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on February 07, 2019, 07:51:28 AM
I see an incredible amount of suggestions for tweaks, but I'll add a question: did Demon Night and Thorny Grave disappear completely and have their spots used for newer psynergy or are they just sitting around waiting to be used?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 07, 2019, 03:54:54 PM
I have another question to add, too:
I noticed that the Tamer's Whiplash is no longer available right away as it was in the base game, and it has a noticeably higher PP Cost than it used to have. What level is it learned at now, and how much was it buffed?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 08, 2019, 04:57:11 AM
Acrobat doesn't work as a hybrid because 150% attack mod sucks. Fury has 160% and even that's not enough for it to be a good class on Ivan.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 08, 2019, 05:45:22 AM
Fury has 160% and even that's not enough for it to be a good class on Ivan.
Lolwut. I'm about 95% certain that Caledor made Fury specifically *for* Ivan, and a 160% Attack modifier was plenty good enough for Ivan to make fighting Star Magician FAR easier by oneshotting Recovery Orbs with Rolling Fire. Attack modifier and EPAs aside, it's easily the 3rd Best Offensive Mage, boating Volcano, Plasma, and Ice for incredible Elemental Coverage and damage. Literally the only thing I would change on it would be to replace the Weaken Psynergy with Bind & Break, or something. Drain+Psy Drain would be neat, but then this Class would be even more absurdly overpowered.

Fury aside, Acrobat is clearly intended for Jenna and Ivan, since Sheba and Mia don't have the Attack Scores or weapons to support the EPAs, and the Warriors would rather have Dragontamer or a purely Warrior-type class. Sure, it could stand to have a higher Attack Modifier given the Djinn Distribution restrictions, but it's understandable if Cal doesn't buff it, since its intended users already have fairly high attack scores and have weapons that can support a hybrid type class.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 08, 2019, 01:41:16 PM
Done with exams, it's time for answers

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I stated earlier that Poseidon is where Reloaded HM ends...
Sounds more like an issue with HM to me. Overall i think i lack the tools to make ailments vs bosses sustainable without breaking the game.

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Is there an endgame Mercury Light Blade? I'm planning on starting a new game and using the newly buffed Valkyrie in this run
The one thing valkyrie won't need is a mercury unleashing weapon. It can't get any better than Phateon blade

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Why is Ker's Weight the Cursed Staff instead of, say, Atroposis' Rod?
2+2. Wanted to buff the cursed mage, lacked venus among the strongest staves, so i made a cursed venus staff. I didn't really think about it that much. BTW i always test healers without cursed weapons.

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did Demon Night and Thorny Grave disappear completely
It looks like the icons are gone so they can't be used by the player. But i have 2 free slots since i started overriding the Cool line

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Lolwut. I'm about 95% certain that Caledor made Fury specifically *for* Ivan
Oh, I'm SO glad you said that. :D

Here's the true story behind the Fury line: it dates back to Balance Age, when the tri elementals for mages were still a disaster as both Ranger and Dark shaman existed. When i noticed that i had 3 hybrids (general, valkyrie, ninja) i thought "eh, let's make the fourth", soon followed by "oh my god, a mace wielding Mia casting planetary has to be rad as f*ck!!". A few hours later Fury was fully built, while Alecto's mace followed 2 releases later.

Also I'm having an issue right now, cause while reworking EPAs i just noticed that Planetary is basically a discount Rolling Fire. A sane person would probably switch it with Liquifier and call it a day but I obviously can't do it with that backstory, lol.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 08, 2019, 02:02:38 PM
PFFT! That's the best backstory for any class ever lmao

Why not change Planetary to debuff Attack? of the EPAs, I'm pretty sure Plume Edge is the only one that debuffs Attack.

Hmm... That's a shame about the ailments. The way I see it, getting Stun or Sleep on a particularly difficult boss would be a way to catch a breather for reapplying buffs and healing. Poison/Venom is really the only Status Ailment that's gamebreaking, in my opinion, since it says "screw you" to basically everything and all forms of strategy, since few things can beat a highly defensive team using Poison as their means of attack. Heck, Poison carried me through the early stages of Octopath Traveler when I solo'd it with Primrose, so I can say firsthand that Poison against bosses is simply broken.

That's a strange thing to say about the Light Blades, considering you went out of your way to make an endgame Mercury Longsword.

Makes sense you'd test Healers without cursed weapons, considering they'd prefer PP Regen Equipment. The Dark Robe's and Ker's Weight's hefty bonuses to Venus Power were just far too appealing to pass up for Guardian Jenna, since she was my only healer on the frontlines lol. Though I should probably mention that while Heretic Jenna is probably the only offense-oriented Mage who would even want the Ker's Weight, she'd much rather have Lachesis' Rule for maximum Punishment/Scourge Damage.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 08, 2019, 02:28:36 PM
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Why not change Planetary to debuff Attack? of the EPAs, I'm pretty sure Plume Edge is the only one that debuffs Attack.
another perfectly sound argument blocked by silly reasons: It doesn't go well with the animation. So i'll probably make Liquifier the attack debuffing one and make planetary debuff defense.

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Hmm... That's a shame about the ailments. The way I see it, getting Stun or Sleep on a particularly difficult boss would be a way to catch a breather for reapplying buffs and healing.
They'd be broken, it's not a breather if you can spam it. People can't recover from statuses on the turn they are applied so a measly 33% chance of inflicting stun/sleep would make any boss a walk in the park. It should be less then 10% to be almost fair, but at that point it'd just be boring for the player.

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That's a strange thing to say about the Light Blades, considering you went out of your way to make an endgame Mercury Longsword.
I wouldn't really call it "went out of my way". I already had the icon (copy pasted from TBS, dummied out), it looked like mercury, noticed that i REALLY lacked endgame mercury weapons, and Caladbolg was born.

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Makes sense you'd test Healers without cursed weapons, considering they'd prefer PP Regen Equipment.
More like because i wouldn't want my healer to suffer from the luck decrease inflicted by the ring.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 08, 2019, 02:56:27 PM
Here's another idea for Planetary: Give it a chance to inflict Stun. It makes sense for the animation, too.

Hrm... That is true... Status Ailments are a pain to try to balance, which is a shame because they're fun to use and allow for smarter fighting.

Ah, I see. Still kind of a shame that Masamune is the only endgame Mercury Light Blade (at least that I know of), considering how hard it got nerfed. Also is there no Endgame Mars Light Blade? Jenna's and Ivan's selection of endgame weapons seems kinda shallow and really pushes them to using Staffs, with the Tisiphone's Edge being the only other noteworthy endgame Light Blade. Meanwhile the Warrior characters have Sol Blade, Firebrand, Herculean Axe, Excalibur, Alecto's Mace, Rising Mace, Caladbolg, Tisiphone's Edge, and the Phaeton's Blade.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 08, 2019, 09:50:09 PM
Here's another idea for Planetary: Give it a chance to inflict Stun. It makes sense for the animation, too.

Ah, I see. Still kind of a shame that Masamune is the only endgame Mercury Light Blade (at least that I know of), considering how hard it got nerfed. Also is there no Endgame Mars Light Blade? Jenna's and Ivan's selection of endgame weapons seems kinda shallow and really pushes them to using Staffs, with the Tisiphone's Edge being the only other noteworthy endgame Light Blade. Meanwhile the Warrior characters have Sol Blade, Firebrand, Herculean Axe, Excalibur, Alecto's Mace, Rising Mace, Caladbolg, Tisiphone's Edge, and the Phaeton's Blade.
Stun was the first thing option i considered when i added ailments, but it was bound to be underwhelming when compared to other effects and doesn't solve the "discount rolling flame" issue.

mithril blade is stronger than masamune.

As for acrobat, it's true that it is underwhelming when compared to dragontamer and necromancer and the issue fall on the stat total cause hybrids can't be minmaxed, so it makes a lot of sense to raise the totals for item classes, thanks for the tip


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 08, 2019, 10:09:44 PM
I can't really think of any way to make Planetary not be "discount Rolling Flame", aside from making it Mars Minotaurus (though that would kinda ruin one of Dragontamer's draw points).

Ah, I had forgotten about the Mithril Blade lol
Though there's still an issue of lacking an endgame Mars Light Blade, albeit a minor issue, since Fury Ivan would likely rather have Atropis' Rod for the Mars Boost in combination with Selene's Armlet and the Dark Robe for +55 Elemental Power to Mars, Mercury, and Jupiter.

That reminds me, is there an Cursed Arm Equipment for Cursed Mages? Not really sure what else you could slap on there, though, since the Dark Robe and Demon Circlet alone already have very hefty buffs to any Mage's offense.

EDIT:
Since Planetary is on the Chaos Lord class, is there really a need to change it solely for Fury's sake? If anything, Planetary could get buffed to take Rolling Fire's current strength and effect, then change Rolling Fire to essentially be Mars Minotaurus. This way Planetary isn't redundant on Fury, and Chaos Lord doesn't suffer Planetary getting nerfed, and Dragontamer doesn't decrease in value since Rolling Fire only exists on Fury.

EDIT 2:
I should also mentioned that you've forced me to stick Fury Mia in my second Normal Reloaded Run specifically because of the backstory for Fury lol. I just HAVE to use her in Fury now, knowing why Fury exists as it does in the first place lmao


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 08, 2019, 11:28:29 PM
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That reminds me, is there an Cursed Arm Equipment for Cursed Mages? Not really sure what else you could slap on there, though, since the Dark Robe and Demon Circlet alone already have very hefty buffs to any Mage's offense.
That

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change Rolling Fire to essentially be Mars Minotaurus
That is an option i'm considering. I'm studying all the side effects of the change to Liquifier and Planetary both, weighting the nerfs (there's also plume edge / liquifier redundancy in some classes and i might be ok with them) against the "easy way out" that is mars minotaur

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I should also mentioned that you've forced me to stick Fury Mia in my second Normal Reloaded Run specifically because of the backstory for Fury lol. I just HAVE to use her in Fury now, knowing why Fury exists as it does in the first place lmao
Lol i still remember testing her (as in, to see the animations) as a Fury and as the wielder of Alecto


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 08, 2019, 11:37:52 PM
If you do change Planetary into a debuffing EPA and change Liquifier to debuff attack, why not simply switch out Liquifier with Planetary (or Plume Edge with Diamond Berg) on the Class(es) that have both Liquifier and Plume Edge? A simple fix to avoid redundancy.

Oh yeah, I should also mention that the Divine Camisole just plain sucks. The defense +5 is fine for a shirt, but only giving a measly +2 Luck? During the endgame? Silk Bustiers easily win over this one, since Status Ailments past Instant Death and Delude are pretty rare at that point, and the girls simply love the extra PP, no matter how small the boost is. I hope it's made worthwhile with the changes you're giving Shirts, Boots, and Rings.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on February 10, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
Poison/Venom is really the only Status Ailment that's gamebreaking, in my opinion, since it says "screw you" to basically everything and all forms of strategy, since few things can beat a highly defensive team using Poison as their means of attack. Heck, Poison carried me through the early stages of Octopath Traveler when I solo'd it with Primrose, so I can say firsthand that Poison against bosses is simply broken.


For what it's worth, attempting to poison djinn you have to fight as fast as possible is my most consistent means of taking the things down since they deal an absurd amount of damage in the early stages of the game. I'm with you on wishing statuses would work on bosses, but it would be kind of impossible to balance their hp for poison and if you balanced their damage assuming the player gets a free turn to heal, you're have a boss that assumes you're at full health constantly, which means you're just racing your PP meter.

The thing related to bosses I'd want is for debuffs to stick around a bit. And I do remember that poison finds a place in some of the Crossbone Isle fights. Multiple enemies makes poison fair game.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 10, 2019, 03:58:50 AM
Oh snap Poison/Venom works on Djinn? I've been using Stun to avoid damage altogether and try to take them out ASAP before Stun wears off and they nuke the party and/or flee. Please, Cal, never ever give Djinn Status Immunity because those things are now WAY too dangerous and have way too high of a chance to flee to be immune to Ailments.

Both things of what you said about ailments are true... like I said earlier, Ailments are a major pain to balance well.

And yeah, I feel that debuffs fade far too quickly, even when re-applying them through the MT version, to be worth using past the Debuffing EPAs. I don't even bother trying to land them now, since it's better to focus on the party's buffs instead.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on February 10, 2019, 04:42:09 PM
Yes, if you can poison them, then having multiple actions per turn works against them heavily. I try to keep Felix as ailment-heavy as possible to consistently land Poison on things


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 10, 2019, 04:45:03 PM
Well snap. that just makes catching those little bastards WAY easier, especially when you stack it with Stun. no damage taken, and they receive HUGE amounts of damage from the party's attacks and poison.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 11, 2019, 12:34:02 AM
v1.73 is UP

Changelog:

Savage bear (crossbone) replaces 1 special for standard attack
Sour bug fixed (Numb Ant)
Sentinel is a lot faster
Item classes' have higher stat totals (multipliers increased)
New psynergies: Blessing, Waterspout and Sabre Rain
Lowered success rate for debuffing EPAs and 2-stage debuffs
Base power increased for psynergies learned between levels 20-35
Learning level, PP cost and power adjusted for a few psynergies
Liquifier drops Atk, Planetary drops Defense
Positions of Minotaur and Ghost soldier switched
Item classes' EPAs rebalanced
Mid tier psinergies of Samurai and Ninja + Annhilation are weaker
Minor changes to the psynergy sets of a few classes (see class doc)
Bravery and Courage's icons tweaked
Tweaked the numbers of most items that buff Agility, Crits or Ailments
Full rebalance of accessories (Shirts, Boots, Rings)
Name and animation of Caladbolg's unleash changed
Early to mid game unleashes boosted
Attacks that may double or triple damage rebalanced

As usual, take your time checking the numbers within the editor for items and psynergies, then fire questions at will: I'll answer them tomorrow


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 11, 2019, 12:44:40 AM
Hooray!! I've been eagerly waiting for the update since Valkyrie's buff! Sorry, Etrian Odyssey V, you just can't compete with this mod lol.

I checked the Class Doc, and noticed that Destroyer lost Douse and gained Frost. Any particular reason for the downgrade?

EDIT:
hrmm... looks like going into Version 1.73 will have to wait until tomorrow. It seems the apps I have (UniPatcher and the generically named ROM Patcher) for patching on mods don't like Reloaded V1.73, and don't apply it correctly, making the ROM unplayable. Once I have access to a PC, I'll see if LunarIPS does the job better. (though even LunarIPS would screw up applying a mod for Shining Force 2, so I'm afraid that LunarIPS won't do the job either...)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 11, 2019, 04:34:20 PM
I tried to patch on Version 1.73 with LunarIPS, and it keeps failing to patch correctly, making the game unplayable. Is anyone else experiencing this problem? If not, what program are you using to apply this mod?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 11, 2019, 05:14:59 PM
I reuploaded the patch for TLA, try downloading again. BTW i use LunarIPS to create the patches.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 11, 2019, 06:10:00 PM
Yay! It's working now! Time to put in that obnoxiously long password again! lol

Very eager to try out Valkyrie, and to see all the changes you've made!

EDIT:
I just realized that with Valkyrie having Waterspout, we can now cast the same Psynergy we see Alex using during the intro section! lol :happy:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 13, 2019, 01:51:27 AM
I've reached Kibombo, and so far nothing really different to note aside from Pierrot and Tamer being noticeably stronger, and Pierrot learning Sword Dance much sooner and at a much cheaper cost.

Although Pierrot and Tamer are indeed stronger, they're kind of risky to use since you have to more or less sacrifice a party member to use these two Item Classes, and that means Tamer will be your only healer in battle (unless Sheba is your non-Item Classed party member and you keep Spark on standby so she's in her Venus classline). And that problem will only be more drastic after Piers joins and you get the Necronomicon. A 4th Item Class is desperately needed to make these classes worthwhile and safer to use before Isaac's gang joins up with Felix's. If you still have absolutely no plans to make a 4th Item Class, I could try to code it myself if I have the time (even though I don't have any experience with coding lol :Sweat: )

I also made an unfortunate discovery that the game will prevent you from returning to the Gondowan Cliffs if you trigger the cutscene with Piers joining your party before clearing the Gabomba Statue. This is unfortunate because I forgot to grab Kindle before reaching Piers, so I'm going to be Wishless until I get Steel :sad:

I got some screenshots to show off some interesting bits.
•A pointless bit of trivia, but you can trigger the cutscene with the Mayor of Madra and his posse on the higher ledge, quite a ways away from where the flag for this cutscene normally is.

•I healed Felix with the Djinni Breath, and he remained Whited-Out until I advanced the Battle Text. I dunno if this was a visual glitch or if that normally happens.

•Am I the only one who didn't know Alex was hiding an Apple in his room in Alhafra?

EDIT:
Reached Piers' boat, so I've got a few things to add:

•Golden Boots. What happened to them? They have lower defense value than the Safety Boots (which you get much earlier), and they boost Luck? I get that Luck is used for Ailment Checks, but I personally never found +2 or 3 Luck making any difference at all if a character gets inflicted with an ailment or not. Heck, my Cursed Mages in the earlier version of this mod rarely suffered any ailments or instant death despite having 15 Luck. And if I remember right, you need at least 40 Luck to be flat out immune to most ailments, which Mia is probably the only character who will feasibly get her Luck score that high without using Cheats for Infinite Lucky Peppers. Keeping its original defense value of +8 and buffing the HP Regen for these boots would've been more ideal. Golden Boots suffered horrendously from this change, and are only worthwhile early on due to how weak the Leather Boots are.

•Safety Boots getting changed to Venus Resist is... interesting. More or less a side-grade, since the +5HP it used to have rarely made a difference the further you went.

•Aqua Jellies on Piers' Boat are honestly too strong, and rarely deviate from attacking with Electrical Bite and Venomous Fang (or whatever the Bite Attack that inflicts Poison is called). It's weird for them to be so tough only for the Eastern Sea monsters to be only marginally harder than the Gondowan Monsters.

•Aqua Hydra is too RNG based. If it uses Raging Tides twice in the same turn, you'll find yourself bribing the last Priest you visited to convince whatever god the people of Weyard worship to revive your drowned party. Nerfing Raging Tides and/or changing it to be used far less often would solve this issue.

•This has been an issue since an earlier version of this mod, but the Guardian Ring is kind of moot, considering the Unicorn Ring gives the same stat boost (+2 Luck) AND cures Poison for the party. Maybe change its stat boost and/or give it SOME kind of In-Battle use?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 13, 2019, 04:54:43 PM
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Golden Boots. What happened to them? They have lower defense value than the Safety Boots
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Guardian Ring is kind of moot
My bad. Forgot to edit the safety boots and guardian ring. The former should have 4 defense, the ring should boost hp by 5

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Aqua Jellies on Piers' Boat are honestly too strong
minibosses, can't be compared to random encounters

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Aqua Hydra is too RNG based. If it uses Raging Tides twice in the same turn
The chance of that happening is 2.56%

As for item classes, i might have found the solution: multiple copies of the current tiers to allow a different djinn progression.

With only 3 more slots i can allow item classes to grow by adding a new element per tier instead of keeping everything balanced.
For example the Necromancer with an elemental progression of Wind -> Fire -> Earth -> Water will require:

0-0-0-0 for base tier as usual
3-3-0-0 jupiter and fire for the first tier
3-3-3-0 jupiter fire earth for the second
3-3-3-3 everything for max as usual

In addition to the usual 1-1-1-1 and 2-2-2-2 for tier 1 and 2

This means that the first tier can be accessed by jenna and sheba just like a dual elemental class (basically an item based inquisitor line for both)
While second tier can be accessed by jenna sheba or felix just like a tri elemental class (heretic/ninja line for jenna/felix, no equivalent for sheba as 3 mars 3 venus doesn't exist for her)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 13, 2019, 05:08:21 PM
Yikes. RNG really wasn't in my favor against the Aqua Hydra, since it used Raging Tides three times in a row.

Huh. that's an interesting way to solve it, but it works. It'll be super nice to be able to use the Item Classes and still have a "full" party before Isaac's gang shows up.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 13, 2019, 10:34:30 PM
v1.73a (TLA only) is UP

Changelog:
Fixed Safety boots and Guardian Ring
Added elemental progression for item classes

What is elemental progression:
In addition to the usual djinn setup for item classes, it is also possible to go to a higher tier by giving 3 djinn of a certain element instead of the usual method of adding 1 djinn for each element

The elemental progression for the item classes are:

Acrobat: Fire - Water - Wind - Earth
Dragontamer: Earth - Wind - Water - Fire
Necromancer: Wind - Fire - Earth - Water

As usual tier 0 doesn't require any djinn.
To go to to the first tier, you need 3 elemental levels on the first 2 elements of the progression.
For the second tier you need to add 3 djinn of the third element.
The last tier, as usual requires 3 el. levels on each element.

There is also another copy of tier 1 that is a copy of tier 2 with 1 el.level less for each element to ease the downgrade when summoning, cause for example if necromage ivan (3 earth 3 fire djinn) were to unleash a single fire djinn it would plummet immediately to tier 0 without this "special" tier.
It also allows characters of the third element to access the first tier by having 2 djinn each of the first 2 elements.

Why all this: cause it will be easier to use item classes in the midgame, since they are literally dual classes for tier 1 and tri-elemental classes for tier 2

This might sound convoluted but just looking at the elemental levels from the editor will explain better than i ever could.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 14, 2019, 12:48:42 AM
Oh boy I'm loving this new Class LOL. The Tamer's Whip only works correctly for Sheba, oddly.

Guardian Ring still boosts Luck, but by +5 this time.

I'm not entirely sure what's happening in the 3rd screenshot, to be honest lol


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 14, 2019, 12:58:01 AM
... are you sure you patched a clean rom?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 14, 2019, 01:02:59 AM
I patched over the previous version, which I hope is clean enough. I tried it on an untouched version to make sure it didn't have the same issue Version 1.73 had the first time it was put up, but didn't really do anything from there.

Pierrot works as intended and promotes to the 2nd Tier with 3 Djinn. The Safety Boots now give +4 Defense instead of +5, as intended. And like I said, Tamer's Whip works properly, but only for Sheba.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 14, 2019, 01:12:27 AM
I patched over the previous version
NEVER EVER do that. Clean = vanilla. This is 100% the reason why the guardian ring grants Luck +5 instead of hp+5.

Quote
The Tamer's Whip only works correctly for Sheba, oddly.
Also, please, you need to report issues better. Setting the clean rom issue aside (which is by far the most important thing), that line and the random screen with piers on a NPC class don't help at all.
1) Which djinn setup?
2) Does it happen with other classes and other items?
3) What did you do and what you were expecting? As in: situation before, situation after and how the after is different from the outcome you were expecting
4) Are you sure you understood the elemental progression correctly? (aka read the post with the changelog again)

All these questions need some kind of answer. Especially 3), since that's how every bug should be reported, not only class related ones


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 14, 2019, 01:34:37 AM
Piers and Jenna are stuck with NPC unless I give them the standard 1 of each non-Mercury/Mars Djinn respectively. Felix escapes NPC with Jupiter Djinn, and Sheba with Venus Djinn (aside the standard way of promoting Item Classes).

Pierrot works normally, and changes everyone to Pierrot as intended.
Sheba and Felix only promote to Jester with the standard Djinn Spread for Item Classes
Jenna promotes to Jester with 3 Mercury, 2 Mercury and 2 Jupiter, and standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.
Piers promotes to Jester with 3 Mars, 2 Mars and 2 Jupiter, and the standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.

I can't check with the Necronomicon right now, since I forgot to snag it before heading to Taopo, but I'll check it out later.

Oof... starting with a fresh ROM prolly means I gotta start AAALLLLL over again.... heck...

EDIT:
Never mind about starting all over. I figured out how to avoid that problem.

anyway, on to the Item Classes:
Pierrot for Felix, Jenna, and Piers is unchanged, only promoting to Jester with the same Djinn combos listed above. Sheba can promote to Jester with 2 Mercury + 2 Mars, but not with 3 Mercury or 3 Mars.

Trainer's Whip actually works now.
Piers promotes to Wild Tamer with 2 Venus + 2 Jupiter, along with standard distribution for Item Classes.
Jenna only promotes to Wild Tamer with the standard distribution for Item Classes
Felix promotes to Wild Tamer with 3 Jupiter, 2 Mercury + 2 Jupiter, and standard Item Class distribution.
Sheba promotes to Wild Tamer with 3 Venus, 2 Venus + 2 Mercury, and standard Item Class Distribution.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 14, 2019, 02:32:03 AM
Everything works as intended

Quote
In addition to the usual djinn setup for item classes, it is also possible to go to a higher tier by giving 3 djinn of a certain element instead of the usual method of adding 1 djinn for each element

The elemental progression for the item classes are:

Acrobat: Fire - Water - Wind - Earth
Dragontamer: Earth - Wind - Water - Fire
Necromancer: Wind - Fire - Earth - Water

As usual tier 0 doesn't require any djinn.
To go to to the first tier, you need 3 elemental levels on the first 2 elements of the progression.
For the second tier you need to add 3 djinn of the third element.
The last tier, as usual requires 3 el. levels on each element.

From the bolded parts you can see the elements are specific, that's why i listed the progression for each class. You can't give 3 djinn of a random element and expect it to work.
To go up to tier one it's either 1-1-1-1 (the usual) or the new 3-3-0-0 or 2-2-2-0, where those numbers are the elemental levels for the elements in the same order as the progression for that class.

Long story short:
Quote
1) Pierrot works normally, and changes everyone to Pierrot as intended.
2) Sheba and Felix only promote to Jester with the standard Djinn Spread for Item Classes
3) Jenna promotes to Jester with 3 Mercury, 2 Mercury and 2 Jupiter, and standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.
4) Piers promotes to Jester with 3 Mars, 2 Mars and 2 Jupiter, and the standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.
1) is obvious, as the requirement is 0-0-0-0
2) True for felix (earth is 4th), false for sheba. She can use 2-2-2-0 cause wind is third in the progression.
3) and 4) work as intended cause fire and water are first and second in the progression.

Jenna and Garet can't use elemental progression for Tamer cause Fire is the last element of the progression. The same will happen for Felix in Pierrot, or for Mia with the Necronomicon.

Also, to see the numbers and have a better understanding of the whole thing, use the editor as suggested in the post with the changelog. I can't stress this enough.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 14, 2019, 02:40:34 AM
Alrighty. Though I find it odd that some promotions to Tier 2 happen with a combination of 2 Djinn of the first two elements in the Elemental Progression (e.g. Piers to Wild Tamer with 2 Venus + 2 Jupiter), when it's stated clearly that at least Djinn 3 of the first element in line are needed to promote to Tier 2.

I don't know if the editor would work on mobile, and my access to a PC is inconsistent at best. Trial and Error along with actually getting the items is my best way of figuring things out, until I get my own PC.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 14, 2019, 02:44:44 AM
when it's stated clearly that at least Djinn 3 of the first element in line are needed to promote to Tier 2.
Not at all. Elemental level =/= djinn. Each character starts with an elemental level of 5 in his own element.

Be sure to read again the other posts cause i probably edited them after you already answered.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 14, 2019, 02:50:56 AM
Djinn add Elemental Levels though, right? because of that, I always figured they were synonymous in regards to classes.

either way, it doesn't really explain how 2 Venus + 2 Jupiter + 5 Mercury resulted in Tamer promoting to Wild Tamer.

EDIT
i'm an idiot and just now started reading posts you edited lol

Things make sense now. Thank you for being patient with my dumb butt and explaining it clearly. :happy:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 14, 2019, 10:56:56 AM
Hello all!! I'm new here. I've been playing this mod for quite some time now and I've loved it you've done a wonderful job, congratulations! I'm currently entering the Western Sea. I have some really minor things to point out that could be fixed (I'm playing 1.71a so some of this may have already been changed, but it didn't look that way in the patch notes (I was going to comment on using Mud being too strong tho)):

  • It's a pity we don't get clear info on most of the changes you made to items, monsters and drops because then we can't plan confidently on what to farm. For example: you say Cerberus drop the Virtuous Armlet, but Cerberus didn't even exist in vanilla, we don't know where to go look for them. Or maybe we go to Treasure Isle wanting to farm Turtle Dragons for the Storm Gear you said, but there aren't any Turtle Dragons there, and instead we find monsters that weren't there before like those Crabs and Dirges and we don't really know if it's worth farming them or not :sad: I do realize making a full list of monsters-positions-drops is a lot of work and you have more important things to do. I'm just saying it's a pity
  • Some weapons, like the Lightning Sword and the Blow Mace (I think), have an elemental affinity on attacks besides the Unleash. Is it possible to put a  :JupiterStar: marker somewhere in the Attack +xx line to show this? Or do you think this distintion is irrelevant?
  • The low-tier craftables are somewhat unbalanced with 2 or 3 things being really useless:
  • Tear Stone is in a pretty good place with Pure Bracelet being the most desirable but the other options are good as well Cloud Wand, Wish Well Ring and Pure Circlet's Mercury resist being useful in all the sea, Aqua Rock, Tundaria and Poseidon and the ring.
  • But with Stardust you have Planet Armor, Luna Shield being really dominant, then maybe Astral Circlet (If you don't care for the  :MercuryStar: resist. Though Clarity Circlet is more powerful for Jupiter), then Comet Mace isn't really worth it since it gets replaced fast and Stardust Ring is a joke. Maybe if Comet Mace had at least 10 :MercuryStar: Power it could be considered an upgrade for Arcanist Sheba over Cloud Wand. Stardust Ring would have to be pretty much reworked
  • Sylph Feather is also pretty awful with Aerial Gloves being REALLY good, then Sylph Rapier being good, and both Floating Hat and Faery Vest being really weak; :JupiterStar: resist is mostly useless in the Eastern Sea with imporant enemies being Mercury, and some Mars and Venus. It only becomes important in Jupiter Lighthouse, but by that point we've got better equipment, don't we? A possible fix for this could be to give the Hat some Agillity, since it can be used by everyone you can stick it on whoever is lagging behind. The Vest could have it's effect made stronger either by healing ~500 ST or 200 MT, or it could work like the Dragon Helm (I loved that one), instead of being an on-use healing bestowing a psynergy, either something offensive like Thunder Card or keep the ST healing
  • Also something simillar happens in the Lemuria Spring: The Glory Crown (hat +35 Def +6PPrec) is way superior than Clarity Circlet (+31 Def +6 Luck) even though Circlets are supposed to have greater Def than hats and usually have +MaxPP or some element. Also the Wild Coat (Clothing +36 Def +35 Agi) is better than the Floral Dress (+35 Def Sleep-on-use) and both aren't really that good compared to the earlier Muni Robe (+32 Def +12 MaxHP +4HPrec) or the later Dragon Robe (+36 Def +30  :MarsStar: Resist +15  :MarsStar: Power +2PPrec).
  • I really liked your fix for Golden Boots to be +8 def +5 HPrec since they where way overpowered in vanilla, though I see that is gone in the latest patch to instead boost Luck. Is your intention to make them not-endgame-material? Are Dragon Boots strictly defensively superior now?
  • I saw Average Wind Seer talk about "Sanctum Warping" but I couldn't find anything about it in-game or in this topic. What is this?
I belive that's all for now. Thank you for making this wonderful game even more wonderful! :heart: :heart:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 14, 2019, 02:57:13 PM
Hello there, Maixpotter!
I can answer some of the things you mentioned.

  • It's a pity we don't get clear info on most of the changes you made to items, monsters and drops because then we can't plan confidently on what to farm. For example: you say Cerberus drop the Virtuous Armlet, but Cerberus didn't even exist in vanilla, we don't know where to go look for them. Or maybe we go to Treasure Isle wanting to farm Turtle Dragons for the Storm Gear you said, but there aren't any Turtle Dragons there, and instead we find monsters that weren't there before like those Crabs and Dirges and we don't really know if it's worth farming them or not :sad: I do realize making a full list of monsters-positions-drops is a lot of work and you have more important things to do. I'm just saying it's a pity
All this can be found by using the Golden Sun Editor. You can also guesstimate where they're found by looking at their "levels" within his Monster Drop Changelog, and keeping the Order of Progression in mind (Piers' Boat -> Shrine of the Sea God -> Taopo Swamp -> Aqua Rock -> Gaia Rock -> Ankohl Ruins -> Treasure Island -> Tundaria Tower -> Champa -> Poseidon).

  • Some weapons, like the Lightning Sword and the Blow Mace (I think), have an elemental affinity on attacks besides the Unleash. Is it possible to put a  :JupiterStar: marker somewhere in the Attack +xx line to show this? Or do you think this distintion is irrelevant?
Fun fact: this is noted. Go into the Status Menu and press A until it shows the characters Inventory. Weapons that change attacks to an Elemental Attack will display the respective Elemental Star (as noted in the screenshot below)

  • The low-tier craftables are somewhat unbalanced with 2 or 3 things being really useless:
  • Tear Stone is in a pretty good place with Pure Bracelet being the most desirable but the other options are good as well Cloud Wand, Wish Well Ring and Pure Circlet's Mercury resist being useful in all the sea, Aqua Rock, Tundaria and Poseidon and the ring.
  • But with Stardust you have Planet Armor, Luna Shield being really dominant, then maybe Astral Circlet (If you don't care for the  :MercuryStar: resist. Though Clarity Circlet is more powerful for Jupiter), then Comet Mace isn't really worth it since it gets replaced fast and Stardust Ring is a joke. Maybe if Comet Mace had at least 10 :MercuryStar: Power it could be considered an upgrade for Arcanist Sheba over Cloud Wand. Stardust Ring would have to be pretty much reworked
  • Sylph Feather is also pretty awful with Aerial Gloves being REALLY good, then Sylph Rapier being good, and both Floating Hat and Faery Vest being really weak; :JupiterStar: resist is mostly useless in the Eastern Sea with imporant enemies being Mercury, and some Mars and Venus.
I have the very same issues with the craftables. Tear Stone has very good options, with the Circlet being the least useful. the Stardust only has two good items, with the Stardust Ring not being valuable enough to warrant getting, and the Comet Mace just flat out being garbage. Meanwhile the Sylph Feather's items just aren't really worthwhile, with the Sylph Rapier only worth using if you're using Jenna as a Valkyrie.

  • Also something simillar happens in the Lemuria Spring: The Glory Crown (hat +35 Def +6PPrec) is way superior than Clarity Circlet (+31 Def +6 Luck) even though Circlets are supposed to have greater Def than hats and usually have +MaxPP or some element. Also the Wild Coat (Clothing +36 Def +35 Agi) is better than the Floral Dress (+35 Def Sleep-on-use) and both aren't really that good compared to the earlier Muni Robe (+32 Def +12 MaxHP +4HPrec) or the later Dragon Robe (+36 Def +30  :MarsStar: Resist +15  :MarsStar: Power +2PPrec).
This isn't too different from the standard Lemuria/Tolbi Springs, honestly. They had plenty of trash items with a small pool of worthwhile items. Though the Floral Dress is the noteworthy stinker, since the previous Dress-Piece (Cocktail Dress) is FAR superior with its sizable MaxPP boost.

  • I saw Average Wind Seer talk about "Sanctum Warping" but I couldn't find anything about it in-game or in this topic. What is this?
This has always been a hidden feature within the game, long before Caledor began this project. To use it, you press L + Start as you press A to select the save file you want to play while in the Title Menu Screen.

I hope I was able to help clear things up :happy:

EDIT:
I checked the Spirit Ring and Stardust Rings to see if their value changed, but nope. Spirit Ring got a barely noticeable buff, so it's still just as valuable as before. Meanwhile the Stardust Ring is unchanged, meaning it's still trash.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 14, 2019, 03:56:13 PM
Hi hi, thank you, you cleared up many things :happy:

All this can be found by using the Golden Sun Editor.
Oh, nice. Guess I'll have to learn how to use that :happy: :Sweat:

Fun fact: this is noted. Go into the Status Menu and press A until it shows the characters Inventory. Weapons that change attacks to an Elemental Attack will display the respective Elemental Star (as noted in the screenshot below)
Wow, I never knew this. That's cool.

This has always been a hidden feature within the game, long before Caledor began this project. To use it, you press L + Start as you press A to select the save file you want to play while in the Title Menu Screen.
Ohh, so it sends you to the last Sanctum you visited? I guess its there to escape from trap bugs. So it can be abused, right? for example I go to Yallam to forge something then save and through this I'll be back in the sactum in the Western Sea instantly?

Thanks a lot!!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 14, 2019, 04:01:34 PM
Actually, you'll be sent back to Yallam's Sanctum. It warps you to the Sanctum of the last TOWN you visited, not the last visited Sanctum. It's more of an Emergency Escape for when you're deep in a dungeon, Felix doesn't have enough PP to cast Retreat, and you desperately need to fall back and heal up at an Inn. Or, in my case, cut the return trip from Tundaria back to Champa after having to go back to Tundaria because I forgot to snag the Center Prong of the Trident when I was there the first time lol


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 14, 2019, 04:08:27 PM
Ooh, bummer, that trip to Yallam is so long and boring. It's good to know anyways.
Thank you!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 14, 2019, 04:16:29 PM
Once you get the Teleport Jewel from Mars Lighthouse, you can simply cast Teleport to warp to Yallam and back to the Town closest to where you want to go. Unfortunately, it's unlocked so late in the game that it's kinda pointless. :sad:

I don't really see a way to fix this since adding a new Psynergy to do the same thing will become redundant once you get Teleport, and giving Teleport earlier would give players access to further inside the Islet Cave and inside Yampi Desert Cave, which they shouldn't be going to until the end of the game.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 16, 2019, 03:38:06 AM
I forgot just how good this mod is.
Booting up Dark Dawn and seeing all the bland, same-y classes, and Karis' basic attack doing twice the amount of damage from her Psynergy (Freeze Prism and the strongest tier in Plasma) reminded me of just how good and wonderful the Reloaded Mod is :heart:

I honestly don't think I can ever go back to playing base Golden Sun ever again lol.

This latest update is amazing, since I can now actually use Item Classes without being down a party member. The only downside to using all 3 Item Classes at once is that Piers is my only means of AoE healing until Felix (using the Tamer's Whip) can summon the Treant monsters lol. Though I'm still going to use Valkyrie Jenna in this run, so Acrobat will eventually be put away. Super excited to experience her buffs!

EDIT:
Hey, uhhh quick question.
Is Call Zombie supposed to cost 20PP? I checked with an earlier version and Call Zombie only cost 5PP then.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 18, 2019, 03:14:48 AM
Well DD is really bad. I wouldn't replay it even if there was a mod like this one to fix all the battle issues. The story and mazes are just too dumb and half the characters aren't even likeable. I don't really know what they were thinking when they did that trainwreck. :sad:

I was thinking about how cool Shuriken is being a multi-target EPA and how it would be interesting to have variations of it for other characters or elements. I was also thinking about how Dragon Helm bestowing Fire Breath is a really nice effect but it hardly ever is a good choice since only the warrior-type can equip it and they don't benefit all that much from it with their low PP, and mars power and Fire Breath's hitting side targets for super low damage. Finally, I was thinking about an argument you had about Fire Breath having little place in the Acrobat´s psynergy pool.

All three of these can be easily fixed by making Fire Breath a range 3 multiplier psynergy (Like Shuriken) instead of a Base Damage (Diminishing): This gives Fire Breath a separate identity in the Acrobat set. This makes Acrobat a more viable option for Piers (which ties in nicely with water being the second element in the progression), as well as helping Jenna (and Ivan) with short swords in a fury-type set. And Dragon Helm is now a desirable piece for any warrior not running Shinobi.

What do you think?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 18, 2019, 03:36:52 AM
DD is a guilty pleasure of mine, tbh :no:
I just really enjoyed playing it so much to the point where it's my second most replayed game ever (Chrono Trigger takes first place on that record), and I even solo'd 99% of the game and superbosses with Karis (Chaos Chimera is too strong for Karis to handle by herself)

That's actually a really neat idea for Fire Breath. I think it'd also be really nice for Dragontamer's Salamander-line, since you're only gonna have your warriors use this class anyway.

Speaking of Warriors, I found myself barely ever making a dent in Felix's or Piers' PP Pools unless I used their PP for healing, meanwhile Sheba and Jenna burn through their much larger PP Pools at an astounding rate. I noticed this to be the case due to Felix's and Piers' classes have a LOT of low cost Psynergies (8-9PP per cast) during the midgame, whereas Jenna and Sheba need to be tossing out Psynergies costing at least 16PP a pop to clear out trash mobs with the same power as the boys using their EPAs or basic attacks. This PP disparity gets even worse when you factor in Felix and Piers having the Luna Shields available to them LONG before you find any PP-Regen equipment for either girl. It's weird seeing the Warriors having drastically better PP longevity in battle than the Mages.

Also the Comet Mace is unbelievably bad. There's literally zero reason for it to even be in the game as it is. I suggest either removing it or reworking it into a Western Sea Mace.

Minor note, but I think something screwy happened with Instant Death unleashes. Within the normal game, it checks to see if the Instant Death lands before doing a damage roll, as noted in the TBS screenshot from the vanilla game. In Reloaded, it rolls damage first, then rolls to see if Instant Death lands, as shown in TLA Reloaded screenshot. I used the Assassin's Blade for both screenshots, and Ivan's & Jenna's set-up doesn't matter because it always happens like this in Reloaded.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 18, 2019, 06:15:11 AM
Well, Karis is one of the more likeable characters, I prefer Amiti tho. But I only played through it once after having played these two many times and I just felt insulted at every step.

At first I thought about the Tamer, but I didn't think Caledor would agree to that since Tamers get ST and MT heals, revive, many diferent EPAs and impact, with their MT damage being their weak spot. If you also gave them good MT damage it might be a bit too much.

Other possibilities would be a Mercury Shuriken for Piers' Archon class (since it only has Froth and lacks MT healing, revive and impact). This is IMO Piers' worst tri-elemental class and this change would greatly benefit it. And MAYBE for Jenna's Valkyrie (Replacing Cutting Edge that is somewhat redundant having Waterspout) though she does have both revive and impact and various other utility psynergy :/ what would you need to give up in order to have MT EPA?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 18, 2019, 06:30:47 AM
I agree about Tamer, though it also has the Blue Dragon Psynergy for wider MT Psynergy, while its Salamander line stays a 3 Target MT Psynergy (i think).

I have to disagree about Archon being Piers' worst Tri-Elemental Class (that title goes to his Venus Dragoon class). It succeeds where original Valkyrie failed, in that its support spells worked together to minimize incoming physical damage, while Original-Valkyrie just has Attack and Defense buffs which nearly all other classes could do better.

If I were to change anything on Archon, it would be swapping Froth for the Jupiter or Mars Psynergy that's a "stage above" it (e.g. Bolt being the lowest tier and Plasma being 3rd highest tier). Any changes to Valkyrie would be replacing Beam for Gaia, Prism, or Cool. Any "high tiered" Psynergy that isn't the incredibly lame and boring Beam psynergy and still fits the theming of this class.

also here's a pointless fun fact:
Not sure if this was the case in vanilla, but at the entrance screen to Tundaria Tower, you can jump that gap from either direction (as noted in the screenshots below). so much for the visual effect of an upward slope lol


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 18, 2019, 07:18:55 AM
Well, Piers' Holy Knight, just as the others' Paladin, is pretty straightforward, a highly durable healer and it's better at that than any other: Piers' superior natural bulk and PP, slightly higher HP and PP multiplier while having the same def and wrd, higher natural  :MercuryStar: Power and access to Remedy and Break all make him better than Felix, Isaac or Garet at the job. Off course there isn't much reason to run this when a lower durably healer can give stronger heals with a larger PP pool and still manage to not die, right?

So the correct way to use Archon is to just cast Guard-Ward-Guard-Ward? If you ask me it's better to have the defensive buffs on different characters so that you can get your defenses up in half the time. I still think giving it Mercury Shuriken would be a good idea, of course changing Froth to something like Tornado would complement this change further.



Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 18, 2019, 02:12:45 PM
Archon doesn't have Ward? it has Guard and Dull/Liquifier, so physical damage barely hurts. Holy Knight's flaw is that its speed score is absolutely abysmal with nothing to compensate for it. It also has Heal instead of Wish, so the higher Mercury Power doesn't really mean squat.

EDIT:
nevermind what I said about Archon not having Ward. I never used it from this Class, so I had forgotten it even had it. my bad lol :Sweat:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 18, 2019, 05:45:58 PM
Oh, that makes sense for Archon, I'm just reaching that point it the game where EPAs begin to have added effects so I'm not all that familiar with these effects. Also I don't use debuffs much since they tend fail me regularily

Both the spread sheet and the editor (at least on my 1.71a) show Holy Knight to have Ply-Wish-Revive, maybe you are confusing with the two-elemental Protector that has similar stats and functionality? And I think the low speed is there so that the heals come in between the enemy's multiple attacks


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 18, 2019, 05:54:08 PM
I checked, and yeah you're right. My bad.
Though for the other Warriors to be in the Paladin Class, they need 5 :MercuryDjinni:, which puts their Mercury Power at about the same. Not to mention Caledor nerfed how much Elemental Power boosts Healing spells, so Piers' two whole points above, say, Paladin Garet is negligible.

the Debuff Psynergies are still crap, honestly. They fail too often and fade too fast to be worth using (even the MT versions).

EDIT:
So in an earlier version of Reloaded, I toyed around with Jonin (used Garet) and General to see how well they function as a hybrid, aaaaaanndd... They don't work too well as Hybrids, at least, not to the extent Fury does. (I can't really call Valkyrie a hybrid since she only has one Base Damage Psynergy, and behaves more like Piers' Destroyer) I think replacing General's Ice and Ray Psynergies with the next Psynergy up in base damage (e.g. Ray -> Whirlwind?) would help him, and both could do with a higher PP multiplier. Both Piers and Jonin Garet did well over twice the damage their Base Damage psynergies could do with their EPAs, which kind of diminishes the whole point of them being hybrid classes. I tested them on enemies around Prox, by the way.

at the same time, I took a closer look at Fury with Ivan (with Cursed Mage equipment). He doesn't do as much damage with Rolling Fire as he does with his Base Damage Psynergies, however, the difference between the two isn't anywhere near as drastic as General's and Jonin's damage difference between their EPAs and Base Damage Psynergies.

I think buffing General's and Jonin's MaxPP multiplier would go a long way (along with upgrading General's Ice and Ray psynergies), and adding Endgame Venus and Jupiter Maces. The Hagbone Mace comes close to endgame Jupiter, but is very noticeably weaker than the Rising Mace, so buffing that to be closer in power with the Rising Mace would be very very nice for General and Jonin.

I'm glad I went and checked my notes about Forging Items, because I had forgotten that the Millennium Helm, Cosmos Shield, and Xylion Armor gave very nice boosts to help out the Warriors' Hybrid Classes. though, would it be possible to buff the Cosmos Shield to also give Venus Power & Resist boosts so General benefits just as much from it as Jonin does?

EDIT 2:
oh wow never mind about them not working as Hybrids. I equipped them with the armors mentioned above, and they've closed a significant amount of the damage gap between their strongest Base Damage psynergies and their EPAs. General could still benefit from having an endgame Venus Mace and having Ice and Ray upgraded, along with a Venus equivalent to the Cosmos Shield. I don't see why Jonin should be stuck with Carpet Bomb when it's just a slightly weaker Supernova. Why not replace Carpet Bomb with Supernova, and get rid of Carpet Bomb? I assume getting rid of Carpet Bomb would free up a slot for you to make a new Psynergy?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 20, 2019, 01:11:25 AM
LOL I tried to go fight Star Magician right after Isaac's party joined. I got my @#$ handed to me in a plate. So I guess I'll come back latter. :Sweat:

On the Buffs to General: You say you want to change Ice for a higher psynergy, but Ice already has the third highest Base Power (after Frost Card and Prism), if you were to switch it for Cool you'd be losing power (and gaining range). Unless you want to give him Prism? Ray isn't all that weak, it's average but I could see it upgraded to Whirlwind to add a bit more damage and range.

On Jonin: I'd argue Jonin is actually too strong right now having the highest PP, ATK and AGI modifiers available for Felix, Isaac and Garet as well as good EPAs, the only (so far) MT EPA, Thunder Clap being really close to Plasma and Punji being a bit further away but still second in damage after Gaia, while also having access to buffs Impact and Ward. If you were to change anything I would make them more psynergy oriented by decreasing the ATK multiplier a bit, then you could buff the PP or psynergies freely.

EDIT: Shouldn't Shogun have the highest ATK multiplier in the first place? Lava Shower, Rockfall and the debuffs are seldom useful, it has no other utility. It's only role is to spam unleashes or EPAs and it's not even the best at that it's wierd


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 20, 2019, 01:46:23 AM
Huh. I really should check the new base powers for Psynergies. I thought Cool was stronger than Ice lol :Sweat:

As for Jonin's and General's statlines, after looking back over their PP Multipliers, yeah they don't need any stat changes. However, they could really benefit from an Endgame Venus Mace, a substantial buff to the Hagbone Mace to be better suited for endgame content, and a Venus Cosmos Shield for General.

I personally think Carpet Bomb, Rock Slide, and Lava Bath, should all be removed, since their animations are copy/pasted from Starburst, Gaia, and Volcano respectively, and don't add anything to the classes they're found on that other psynergies of similar base power couldn't.

EDIT:
yeah, why does Jonin have a 170% Attack multiplier, but Warlord only has 160%? It makes no sense and throws away any reason to use Warlord. As it is, Jonin is outright the BEST class for Isaac, Garet, and Felix. There is no reason to use Warlord (or any other Tri-Elemental Class of these three) when Jonin is as strong as it is (also please switch out Liquifier for Planetary or Plume Edge for Diamond Berg on Warlord).

EDIT 2:
Here's a little pro-tip for everyone.
With the glitch of Stat-Debuffing Djinn adding an extra RN value, Mud and Vine are invaluable for RNG Methods against enemies faster than your character doing the killing blow (assuming the enemies aren't weak to Venus). Mud and Vine normally add +1RN per enemy, and the glitch makes them equal an attack psynergy (on non-Venus Weak enemies). I was able to rig a Crystal Rod to drop earlier than I should've been able to, thanks to Mud.

EDIT3:
Why the ever loving f*** does the Serpent have an instant death attack?
>Serpent uses Mighty Press!
>Felix takes 1 Damage! (from full HP)
>Felix is downed!
Remove that damn instant death crap from this boss.
This boss is already more than enough of a pain in the butt with AoE Poison, Black Blizzard saying "screw your defense buffs!", and it being able to use Potent Cure (it used it twice in the same turn several times in this battle). It. Does. Not. Need. Instant. Death.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 21, 2019, 07:02:33 AM
Jonin absolutely doesn't need any buffs since it is tied with Chaos Lord for the highest attack stat. They're not supposed to be hybrids, they're supposed to stack crit and attack stuff with Psynergy as a secondary option when AoE or a specific element is needed. They seem like bad hybrids because they are bad hybrids, as that isn't their role. The warrior classes with lower attack stats are better options for hybrid setups.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 21, 2019, 07:20:00 AM
plot twist, my dude:
Caledor specifically modified Jonin (and crafted General) to be a Warrior-Mage hybrid. Though he made Jonin incredibly unbalanced by giving it a 170% Atk modifier (while Warlord only has 160% for some reason) in addition to a 170% MaxPP modifier and the highest agility modifier available to Isaac, Garet, and Felix.

To fix Jonin, I suggest swapping its Attack Modifier with Warlord's, and getting rid of Carpet Bomb, replacing it with the Mars Psynergy closest to Carpet Bomb in base power, even if it means downgrading.

Jonin being unbalanced aside, both Jonin and General perform wonderfully as hybrid classes once you give them the Millennium Helm and Xylion Armor (and Cosmos Shield for Jonin. General needs a Venus equivalent to that shield.) They jumped up from doing about 260 with their strongest Base Damage Psynergies to doing 380-400 on the center target. I do hope Cal makes an Endgame Venus Mace & Venus Cosmos Shield for General, and buffs the Hagbone Mace for Jonin (and rebalances Jonin's stat mods).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 21, 2019, 03:11:55 PM
Jonin has Z-tier defenses. That's why he can afford that attack stat: because as far as warriors go, he has the durability of a wet tissue. -20% HP and -15% def over the chaos lord is no joke. Warlord and Shogun are MUCH more well rounded, especially when atk cap becomes a factor. He is a hybrid and can go either way but i can see why it's easier to stick to the warrior side.

Further power buffs for Jonin and General are not needed: I already balanced them, each warrior can gain 60-65 power in each a single element.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 21, 2019, 03:40:11 PM
-20% HP and -15% defense isn't any blow at all to keep Jonin balanced when Dual-Wishing is a thing, along with the fact that a lot of endgame enemies use Base Damage Psynergies (at least, I assume they're base damage Psynergies).

At Lv.47 with Warrior's Helm, Valkyrie Mail, Ninja Sandals, Running Shirt, Riot Gloves, Sol Blade, and Sol Ring, Jonin Garet clocks in with 926HP, 329PP, 693Attack, 331Defense, 343Agility, and 20Luck.
Meanwhile Chaos Lord Garet has 1025HP, 263PP, 695Attack, 368Defense, 314Agility, and 16Luck
Yeah I dunno about you, but that 20% MaxHP and 15% Defense less sure is looking like a joke because that is one sturdy wet tissue.

And let's be real here, not many people will be grinding enough to hit stat caps. Jonin is unbalanced, plain and simple.

+60-65 to each element? What equipment combination does that use? Unbalanced Mods aside, Jonin still has an unfair advantage over General by having Hagbone Mace (which should have its Attack Score buffed to be suitable to endgame content) and the Cosmos Shield. General doesn't have any Venus Mace at endgame or a Venus Equivalent to the Cosmos Shield. This pushes Jonin even further to being incredibly unbalanced, and the best warrior class.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 21, 2019, 04:06:07 PM
And let's be real here, not many people will be grinding enough to hit stat caps.

Impact. 666 is enough to hit the cap


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 21, 2019, 04:23:20 PM
Okay, that makes sense and works unless the boss you're fighting uses Break. and even then, Jonin's still better than Chaos Lord and Warlord. Its huge Agility modifier ensures that Jonin will go earlier in the turn, and its sizable PP Pool will let it throw out its EPAs without rest for far more turns than Chaos Lord and Warlord, before needing a PP Refill through Ether, Tinder, or a Psy Crystal.

EDIT:
By the way, I thought of a way to make Ker's Weight actually worth using with a Cursed Mage build.

Why not give Infidel a Venus Fume Psynergy in place of Punishment? It could be stronger than Punishment but weaker than Call Dullahan, further incentivizing people to use Infidel over Guardian. It could use the graphics from the Growth series (recolored, if possible) which would work, since Punishment uses the Ray series' graphics.

EDIT 2:
Nerf Poseidon. Break, self-healing, a powerful ST attack that can reduce the party member to 1HP, AND a powerful party-wide attack that can cause INSTANT DEATH TO MULTIPLE PARTY MEMBERS is wayyyyy too much for this point of the game where your options are extremely limited. Even with Master Miko Jenna and Savant Sheba dual-wishing, Poseidon effortlessly tears through the party, and Watery Grave can easily just outright say "f*** you" and cause instant death to two or more party members.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 23, 2019, 07:55:52 PM
No bosses deserve nerfing. Poseidon is hard but not unreasonable since you have revive Djinn and Shade at that point. If anything, bosses tend to be too easy on average and Poseidon is an exception. He's difficult but absolutely manageable without needing to grind.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 23, 2019, 08:06:48 PM
I'm at Lv.27 and Poseidon is incredibly unfair. Ocean's Fist does about 200+ damage to any character when not reducing their HP to one, and Watery Graves deals about 160+ damage per party member, along with a chance to inflict instant death on multiple characters. That is simply unfair to any team, especially considering the fact that Poseidon gets three actions per turn. Jenna, Piers, and Felix have about 450MaxHP and Sheba is at 350-ish MaxHP, so getting hit with three 160+ to 200+ damage attacks makes short work of the party.

Maximum Defense and Resist buffs bring Poseidon's attacks down to a manageable 98-ish damage per attack, but it still adds up very quickly thanks to three actions per turn. And let's not forget that he has Break, making buffs a waste of PP, and every single turn counts against this bastard.

Poseidon. Needs. To. Be. Nerfed.
Heck, even just reducing his Turn Count down to 2 would make him MUCH fairer to fight with the limited options you have for Classes and Equipment at that point.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 23, 2019, 11:00:43 PM
Poseidon is hard but not unreasonable since you have revive Djinn and Shade at that point. If anything, bosses tend to be too easy on average and Poseidon is an exception. He's difficult but absolutely manageable without needing to grind.
The only boss that deserved the slight nerf it received is the Flame Dragon duo. Everything else has been tested so much that is straight up impossible that something that "needs to be nerfed" still exists


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 24, 2019, 12:12:55 AM
I have two runs completely stopped because of Poseidon (though one was HM, so not much can be done there). Not even dual wishing and max buffs can save me because of Poseidon having Break and a Party Wide Instant Death attack.

I may try to cheese it by alternating Flower and Shade, though that likely won't work simply due to how hard Poseidon hits, how many actions per turn he has, and his Party Wide Instant Death attack.

Seriously, no boss should ever have Instant Death, because then it becomes more of a battle of luck than a battle of strength/skill.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 24, 2019, 12:44:05 AM
This just sounds like a baseless complain to me, so i'll say this once.

We're telling you (me and bpat both) that Poseidon can be beaten and you aren't even curious about what you might be doing wrong. You didn't post builds, ask for advice or talk about actual numbers (istant death trigger chance, luck-based formulae, anything). Heck, you didn't even bother reading my signature!

To sum it up, this is not how you (anyone) should give feedback.

Quote
Seriously, no boss should ever have Instant Death, because then it becomes more of a battle of luck than a battle of strength/skill.
Also, this is beyond wrong. Luck is a STAT. It can be manipulated. ID has a base 15% rate on damaging moves, which also means that multiple IDs have a <2% chance of happening. You need to ask for/know the numbers before saying "nerf this, nerf that". 


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 24, 2019, 01:37:40 AM
here are my builds in screenshots down below.

I've considered going to Dual-Element Classes for Piers and Felix, but honestly the only benefit I would really get is allowing me to freely use Djinni Ether.

I know full well that Luck is a Stat that can be manipulated, HOWEVER, unless there are hidden equipments in the Eastern Sea that I don't know about, there are only two Luck boosting equipment available for the guys (Unicorn Ring and Golden Boots). Jenna and Sheba have Ankhs and Astral Circlets, but honestly they'd likely prefer Staffs for more PP and extra Venus or Mercury Power for better healing and better PP sustain for more heals. Astral Circlet is a very nice head piece for the girls, but they also might want the Pure Circlet for the Mercury Resist so Poseidon's attacks don't hurt as much.

15% is pretty dang high for a base ID rate, honestly. Yiazmat in FFXII has I believe a 5% Instant Death chance with his basic attacks, yet it still lands VERY often.

Instant Death is a VERY cheap status effect, even if it has a low chance to land. In my opinion, it's better suited on Random Enemies than on Bosses, since Bosses WILL be considerably long battles, and in such long battles, the RNG has MANY opportunities to simply decide that you get blasted with multiple Instant Deaths. Meanwhile random battles can end within a couple of turns at minimum, meaning Instant Death can still hurt, but not be borderline Run-Ending.

EDIT:
what are the Luck-based formulae, anyway? Because, honestly, Luck never ever feels worthwhile to invest in since 15 Luck was plenty enough on my Cursed Mages in an earlier version, and I'm pretty sure 40 Luck isn't feasibly reached on anyone other than Angel Mia with all the Luck Boosting Mercury Djinn, a Psychic Circlet, and Clotho's Distaff.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 24, 2019, 03:14:07 PM
Just upload the .sav file. It's much easier


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 24, 2019, 03:50:51 PM
I can't attach more than 4 files per post on mobile (dunno if it's different on PC), and I figured posting my team's class+equipment would get better mileage than just uploading the .sav file. Anyway, it's attached to this post, now.

Also a minor thing, but Chill still sometimes uses the Critical Hit animations, but at this point, I assume there isn't much that can be done about it/it's not worth fixing?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 25, 2019, 10:59:11 PM
Hey Cal, you say Jonin has wet tissue defenses even though they are better than what most of the mages get, THIS is NOT bad balance but if THEY can survive then surely so can the Jonin with better multipliers and more defensive equipment options. And in the end staying alive is what matters.

My main issues with Jonin is that there are so many different situations where you would want to use it over other clases:
  • Pretty much all the mid-game, from the moment you get the 6 djinn up until end-game. Since you are not stat capped the extra atk and PP go a long way
  • All mid-game bosses, except maybe Poseidon. Avimander is easy enough (and alternative setups Protector and Paladin are niche and not really needed) and then Moapa, Karst and Agatio and Flame Dragons all get destroyed by shuriken faster than by ST :MercuryStar: EPAs. Since Shuriken is 1.2xN°enemies, so with 2 enemies you get 2.4 multiplier, way better than Plume Edge's x1.7 or Quick Strike's x2.0
  • Any trash even end-game, since shuriken hits harder than base power psynergies and is cheaper (even against Jupiter Lighthouse :JupiterStar: resistant enemies my Felix's Shuriken would deal more damage than Guardian Jenna's Mother Gaia or Pure Mage Sheba's Hail Prism even though they had their apropiate elemental power equipment).
  • Bosses weak to Venus (namely Sentinel): Since Annihilation is just a more expensive Tyrfing but because Jonin has a higher PP pool it somewhat cancells out. You could consider Shogun Skull Splitter to debuff Defense, but you lose out on the impact/ward utility jonin offers.
  • Star Magician: a Jonin with 863 attack (achived by buffs, for example 691 base+25% easily achieved in 1 turn) should one shot Refresh Ball and Thunder Ball (and two shot the others) while damaging nearby targets with shuriken. So potentially one shot two orbs and damage the Magician
  • Finally, if you want to run a Hybrid for some reason

While the other clases only shine in really specific Boss fights:
  • Warlord in Balrog and thats it
  • Shogun in Doom Dragon and Dullahan that hit so hard it may not be a good idea to go Jonin


Most of the Jonin's points are about Shuriken being strong not about the Atk multiplier being too high, but Shuriken would still be strong even if the attack multiplier was way weaker. This presents three separate ways to fix it:
  • 1: Really Nerf/Remove Shuriken. This is the easiest one. I wouldn't really like it since I find Shuriken's mechanics very interesting
  • 2: Relocate Shuriken /Create Shuriken copies for other clases to use. I already gave some ideas for this, but I do think too many would totally ruin it
  • 3: Turn Jonin into a more mage-like class by lowering the Atk multiplier by 15-20% and increasing PP, Luck or Wrd. Shuriken would still be useful in some situations but it would not be as mandatory and it would make other EPAs more desirable against some of the bosses

EDIT: Also, about the Poseidon Instant Death issue. I don't think its a bad mechanic to have Instant Death but it does mean you sometimes have bad RNGs and have to replay the same fight over and over and it can get on your nerves so I understand how Wind Seer feels


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 25, 2019, 11:46:34 PM
Exactly everything Maxipotter said is why Jonin is so incredibly unbalanced, invalidating the other Classes for Felix, Isaac, and Garet.

If you add more MT EPAs, I suggest giving one to Destroyer (replace Frost line), Warlord or Shogun, and Valkyrie.

Truthfully, Valkyrie still doesn't work as a support class, or even a hybrid class. Instead she now does her job of being a Warrior class for Jenna, so that's something.

Personally, with Poseidon, all that needs to be done for it to be a fair fight is removing Watery Grave's Instant Death chance (MT+15% base chance of ID is just ridiculous), and either change Break to be ST (you only ever need it against bosses anyway) or remove it from Poseidon. I stated in a previous post that having maxed out defensive buffs makes Poseidon manageable but still dangerous, so giving the option to actually use buffs would make the fight fair without changing Poseidon's stats.

I also stated that Instant Death just works better on Random Battles due to their short nature, while it makes Bosses incredibly luck based due to boss battles taking a considerably long time. If you still doubt that a <2% chance of multiple IDs from Watery Grave is enough to be worth removing from Poseidon, I'd like to note that in The Legend of Legacy, I once had a boss use its Uber Attack, a Party Wide attack that deals close to 300 damage per character with a max HP average of 400 and can inflict poison, F I V E  T U R N S  I N  A  R O W. The odds of that happened should be really low, and yet it happened. Never underestimate the wrath of Bad RNG, Cal.

EDIT:
I figured I should tack this on, considering your response the last time I stated Bosses with Instant Death are luck-based battles.

Luck being a Stat doesn't mean squat until it breaks numbers that outright make the characters immune to ailments, which is impossible for pretty much everyone but Mia. As long as the chance of multiple Instant Deaths is greater than 0%, it can, and will, still happen.

That aside, the Luck Boosting Equipment is near non-existant for the guys during the Eastern Sea, and the girls have equipment that can make a bigger difference between life and death than maybe reducing the chance of being insta-killed by 1% or so, such as the Pure Circlet adding 20 :MercuryStar: Resist. Even if you stacked on all the Luck Boosting Gear from the Eastern Sea on Sheba or Jenna, you're still horrendously screwed if Watery Grave insta-kills two or more party members.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 26, 2019, 10:37:01 PM
What i find really strange is how you both keep mentioning Jonin and nobody has said anything about Chaos Lord yet.

Shuriken has already been nerfed: you need to update, Maxi.

Quote
I'd like to note [...] I once had
I will always ignore any luck-related complain/suggestion/whatever formulated this way.
Not only about this mod or this game, but in real life as well.
A lot of things have low odds of happening but they will still happen. A random person might get struck by lightning while someone else's winning the lottery. But then what? I can't (and won't) tailor this mod for a 2%. Because if i did that, i'd be making a change that's worse for the other 48% and unnoticeable by the other 50%.

Think about it from the opposite perspective. Somebody fought Poseidon tons of times and never had any character instantly downed by Watery Grave. Should I boost the ID rate because i feel he should experience that? Obviously not.

Tomorrow i'll probably try to battle poseidon with that save


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 27, 2019, 12:03:40 AM
I don't see how removing MT ID from a boss that's plenty strong enough without it will somehow make the experience worse. If anything, it makes it better since there's no chance of getting completely screwed by bad RNG.

Why bother with Chaos Lord when Jonin exists? Jonin offers better utility with Impact and Ward, along with far better PP, EPAs, a MT EPA, and the ability to function as a powerful Hybrid. Heck, why bother with any other class for Isaac, Felix, and Garet when Jonin is blatantly the best class for pretty much the rest of the game once you get access to it?

The few things Chaos Lord DOES have that Jonin doesn't (Poison, Haunt, and Curse) are basically useless in any scenario you'd want to use them either due to bosses having total status immunity or it simply being faster to just attack to win the battle (BTW by no means am I even trying to suggest any ID should possibly work on bosses, cuz that defeats the whole point of boss battles). Not to mention I previously pointed out how extremely marginal the differences between Jonin's and Chaos Lord's HP and defense stats are.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Proxian Obs on February 27, 2019, 02:30:45 AM
What is the recommended level I should challenge Saturos and Menardi'? for some reason I feel like I should come at level 70 from the difficulty of the Mod 'lol. oh and (Very Very) good job on this mod too! :medal:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 27, 2019, 02:57:09 AM
Hello, Proxian Obs!

I fought Saturos and Menardi at Lv.29/30 with Isaac & Garet as Black Knights (6 :VenusStar: 6 :MarsStar: ) spamming Ragnarok and Planet Diver, sometimes buffing themselves with Courage/High Impact. Ivan and Mia were Wises (6 :MercuryStar: 6 :JupiterStar: ) for Double Wishing and Break. Tonic :MercuryDjinni: is a huge help during the Fusion Dragon battle, since it cures all ailments including Haunt.

Down below are screenshots of the equipment I used to fight the final battles and Deadbeard.

I hope this helps!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on February 27, 2019, 09:31:46 PM
Cal, you are right I made two mistakes. First, I was only considering tri-elemental classes, I didn't give two-elemental enough credit. Second I didn't know Shuriken had been nerfed, in the patch notes for 1.72 and 1.73 it doesn't say it explicitely so I assumed it was unchanged, I guess it falls under "mid-tier psynergies for Ninja" though I wouldn't call it that. I see now it has a x1.0 multiplier. So let's go over these:

First Chaos Lord, for the early game its a really good class, both it and Sun Champion have a lot of uses. Once you get the 6 Djinn that allow you to go Shinobi, Chaos Lord remains the top choice against Poseidon. After that most of the mid-game focuses around multi-target fights and Mars-alligned bosses where Chaos Lord is inferior. You could still use it for specific djinn or Mad Plants, but they aren't hard enough to justify moving all your djinn around and then back, are they?
For end-game Chaos Lord looks like the perfect Unleasher, since PP doesn't matter for that, and it gets bravery to buff his attacks, it is strictly better than Jonin at this since they have the same atk but Chaos Lord has way better surviveability, so you would put him in a (posibly cursed) Crit+atk set to get the perfect crit chance, with the Darksword or Herculean Axe or something.
However, as you pointed out there's the posibility of getting stat capped, so then the highest atk multiplier doesn't matter. If you are aiming for 666 atk it's worth noting that if your Chaos Lord is at 708 atk, him in Warlord would be 666 and Warlord is then strictly superior (Same HP and Def, Higher PP, Agi, Luck and Ward. And having access to 3 EPAs, Bravery, Guard, Cure and better MT psynergies). Likewise if your Chaos Lord is at 687 atk, him in Shogun would be at 666, though it is not as strictly superior since it doesn't have atk buffs himself and has to relly on others for it. Shogun does have improved surviveability over Chaos Lord (and PP and Agi) and access to 3 better EPAs.


Secondly, Shuriken has a 16.6% damage reduction compared to my game. This means it now will (probably) deal less damage than ThunderClap and Punji, encouraging to build your Jonin more on elemental power than attack which is nice, while still having a budget option in Shuriken. Shuriken should also hit lower than for example Warlord's Stone Spire when learned at level 33 against Jupiter Lighthouse enemies or Supernova when leared at level 35 against some Mars-weak enemy. However at end-game if neither is geared for elemental power then Shuriken will outdamage all other warrior classes in MT which if perfect by me Jonin should be the best warrior option in MT and it should be hitting for slightly lower damage than Mage's top-tiers, which it didn't before but it now does.
Against the mid-game Bosses Jonin is still the best against Moapa, since MT any element destroys them, which is fine. Against Karst and Agatio and the Flame Dragons it is no longer the clear choice since x2.0 is still strong but just as strong as Quick Strike and considering elemental power differences possibly as strong as Plume Edge's x1.7

Against Star Magician it used to be that Shuriken could 1-shot some of the Balls, with this change even at 999 atk it is not enough to one shot Refresh Ball, though it IS enough to one shot the Thunder Ball. It is still a good choice, but not as mandatory since it would still need extra damage. Shogun, Warlord and Chaos Lord are all able to oneshot one Ball at a time and are better at dealing with the Magician himself.

Against Sentinel I should add Chaos Lord as an option since Odyssey is a good EPA. But Jonin still remains a solid class 'cause Ward.

So of my previous 6 points 2 fell flat with that change I didn't notice. Sorry. I guess you were somewhat right. I still don't see the need for Jonin to have the highest atk multiplier if it is suposed to be more like a caster but I understand its not really that big of a deal and Shogun/Warlord can't have a higher multiplier because it would make Chaos Lord completely useless.


I noticed you didn't say anything about my proposed change to Fire Breath, you didn't like it?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 27, 2019, 09:54:39 PM
Doesn't Sentinel's barrier gimmick also nullify EPAs? I can't remember if it did or not.

Honestly Cal, if you want Jonin to be balanced, then either nerf its HP and Defense modifiers even further to make an actual dent in the Warrior's HP and Defense scores, or nerf Jonin's attack modifier so it isn't on par with Chaos Lord in terms of attack. Personally, I believe it should have the lowest Attack Modifier of Isaac's, Garet's, and Felix's tri-elemental classes at about 150% to 155% attack.

I feel that Shogun needs some major changes, because the intended draw of it being Debuff-focused is really bad. Debuff Psynergies just aren't worth using due to how quickly they fade and being more difficult to maintain (yes, i'm talking about the MT versions). This intended draw-point for Shogun is made even worse by having a PP score marginally better than Chaos Lord's. Not to mention Chaos Lord, Jonin, and Warlord all performing the EPA spam much better due to either higher attack modifiers or better PP pool (or both in Jonin's case).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on February 27, 2019, 11:53:43 PM
One thing that makes sense from the whole Jonin debate is that i should tweak the "weight" for atk and def when calculating stat totals (to balance classes). By making atk weight slightly more and def a bit less (as is should be cause atk is always more or less double than def), it turns out that i should, among other changes, drop the jonin's hp by another 5%. But that's it. 5% Hp is how much it is imbalanced so i really think that you're grossily overestimating the Shinobi line.

Also, i think shinobi itself is why you were having such a hard time against poseidon. Changing Piers to radiant and Felix to Psy champion made the fight a joke even though the entire setup was completely unprecedented for me (btw why miko jenna didn't have asteria's staff?).

As for debuffs, I did some math and I think I can drop the base recovery chance by 5%.

About Fire breath, i found the post cause i didn't really remember hearing about it. It kinda makes sense, i'll mull it over and it will either be in the next update or i'll tell you why it didn't make it.


EDIT (Answer to last point below) I never thought that Jonin has ever been anything near the best for the Isaac Felix and Garet. I'd still pick Shogun and Chaos Lord over it, and i've enjoyed using Leader a lot. I just happened to think something that makes sense math-wise, which involves reducing Jonin's HP multiplier by 5%. Shuriken at x1.2 was actually OP and in fact it only took me 3 castings to nerf it to x1.0


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 28, 2019, 12:11:00 AM
Jenna didn't have Asteria's Staff because I had her wielding a Sylph Rapier in preparation for Valkyrie until I noticed she lacks Blessing from the get-go. Thus it went to Sheba, then sold to Izumo after nabbing a Crystal Rod. After Poseidon, I was gonna have Jenna go Infidel and Piers go Strategist, so the staff she's wielding right now gives more mileage to Punishment.

As long as that 5% takes off more than a measly 100HP when comparing to Chaos Lord, then maybe it'll be fine.

Like Maxipotter said in his first post about changing Fire Breath to a MT EPA, it makes the Dragon Helm's bonus actually worthwhile. I also agree with his point of making more MT EPAs for various hybrid and warrior classes would help knock Jonin down a peg or two from being the "undisputed best" for Isaac, Felix, and Garet.

EDIT (Reply to Cal's edit):
Jonin at the very least was the best class before the planned nerfs to it. We'll see if it keeps a firm grip on that title once the next update is out.

On a separate note:
why did Destroyer get Douse downgraded to Frost?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on February 28, 2019, 03:28:07 AM
Saturos and Menardia (and Fusion Dragon) are all trivial compared to Deadbeard. I usually fight them right after Deadbeard which I do at whatever level Mia learns Break because I dunno how to beat him without Break.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on February 28, 2019, 03:32:44 AM
I personally find Deadbeard fairly trivial compared to Fusion Dragon, largely due to Deadbeard having a finite PP pool and a pointless Monster Move. Fusion Dragon's AoE Haunt and Venom can be crippling if not dealt with immediately via Tonic, not to mention Crushing Blow having a chance to reduce its target's HP to 1.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 01, 2019, 11:39:28 AM
why did Destroyer get Douse downgraded to Frost?
when you said you'd like more variance in psinergy lines i ended up counting them all. Frost was among the rarest ones and i decided that it fits destroyer better than douse (themathically).

Quote
We'll see if [Jonin] keeps a firm grip on that title once the next update is out.
You misunderstood. I never thought that Jonin was the best for the boys. You think it's the best and i find that questionable. I don't like that class, I'd always pick Chaos Lord or Shogun over it. Shuriken alone was too good and it got nerfed but that's it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 01, 2019, 03:23:45 PM
I didn't misunderstand you. It's been clear for a while that you simply don't care for Jonin. However, regardless of how much you liked or disliked Jonin, it was simply overpowered and the best class for the boys. If that extra 5%HP loss cuts off more than a puny 100HP when compared to Chaos Lord, and more classes get MT EPAs, then Jonin will be as balanced as you (and everyone else) want it to be.

Huh. Okay, that makes sense for Frost.

Also, will General be gaining an Endgame Venus Mace and a Venus equivalent to the Cosmos Shield? Jonin has a bit of an unfair advantage over General by having the Hagbone Mace and the Cosmos Shield. General doesn't get anything from Alecto's Mace, and Rising Mace's Mercury Power doesn't help him all that much.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 01, 2019, 03:29:50 PM
You keep misunderstanding. Jonin being OP or best class is only your opinion, one i disagree with. It's not that i don't care, i just think you're vastly overestimating that class.

Pretty sure i already answered that, but no. Power bonuses for warriors are already balanced. There's no need to keep adding equipment.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 01, 2019, 04:50:32 PM
My main issues with Jonin is that there are so many different situations where you would want to use it over other clases:
  • Pretty much all the mid-game, from the moment you get the 6 djinn up until end-game. Since you are not stat capped the extra atk and PP go a long way
  • All mid-game bosses, except maybe Poseidon. Avimander is easy enough (and alternative setups Protector and Paladin are niche and not really needed) and then Moapa, Karst and Agatio and Flame Dragons all get destroyed by shuriken faster than by ST :MercuryStar: EPAs. Since Shuriken is 1.2xN°enemies, so with 2 enemies you get 2.4 multiplier, way better than Plume Edge's x1.7 or Quick Strike's x2.0
  • Bosses weak to Venus (namely Sentinel): Since Annihilation is just a more expensive Tyrfing but because Jonin has a higher PP pool it somewhat cancells out. You could consider Shogun Skull Splitter to debuff Defense, but you lose out on the impact/ward utility jonin offers.
  • Finally, if you want to run a Hybrid for some reason

While the other clases only shine in really specific Boss fights:
  • Warlord in Balrog and thats it
  • Shogun in Doom Dragon and Dullahan that hit so hard it may not be a good idea to go Jonin
I dunno, it sure doesn't seem like it's just my opinion.
Regardless, Jonin having Shuriken aka currently the only MT EPA falls in line with what I stated earlier with Support-type Classes:
Jonin is so highly appealing and so good for the majority of the game mainly because it has something only it can do. Take the exclusivity of a MT EPA away from it, then it falls back to being appealing as a Hybrid Class.

Quote
Power bonuses for warriors are already balanced.
Unless I'm missing certain pieces of equipment, I have to strongly disagree with that statement. In the screenshots below, you can see that I gave Piers and Garet the same armor pieces and Garet is wielding the Hagbone Mace. Garet is clearly boasting a whopping 37 extra Jupiter power over Piers' 128 Venus Power. Do take note that Piers' highest Elemental Power is also Jupiter instead of Venus.

EDIT:
never mind about a Venus Cosmos shield. I just remembered the Titan Gloves exist.

But an Endgame Venus Mace would still be fantastic, since Jonin has the Hagbone Mace. I think the Grievous Mace from the beginning of the Eastern Sea is a fine candidate to receive the same treatment that the Phaeton's Blade got. It is kind of pointless even for when you get it. Sheba would rather have the Cloud Wand for better Wishing, and the guys don't really get anything from Venus Maces at this point, not to mention you can easily sequence break into Gaia's Rock to snag the Demon Mace right away. Even playing the dungeons in the intended sequence, the Grievous Mace is quickly outclassed, and the Demon Mace is a direct upgrade shortly before Strategist is available.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 01, 2019, 05:22:34 PM
Quote
Unless I'm missing certain pieces of equipment
Yes. Once again, please use the editor. Titan Gloves, Big Bang Gloves, both Greaves.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 01, 2019, 05:55:10 PM
The Knight Greaves close the gap, but the Silver Greaves are... kinda pointless in my opinion. Jonin gets absolutely nothing from their Mercury Boost, and General would rather have the Knight Greaves. I guess Paladin benefits from them, but honestly why even bother with Paladin in this mod? Not to mention, both Warlord and Destroyer would much rather have Ninja Sandals for higher Unleash Rates.

Though for the sake of elemental power balance, I suppose that there really isn't much to be done here.


Title: Congratulations!
Post by: Foreclosure on March 02, 2019, 12:30:46 AM
Hey there! I've been keeping track of all the work done in this website and, honestly, you guys are amazing.. From Rolina to Atrius and everyone else, thank you for keeping Golden Sun alive. I love this patch (this is my fav to be honest, I can't play vanilla anymore hehe) and I'm happy you keep updating it. I must confess I still do some tweaks for my gameplays (I hate it that items like Douse Drop and Frost Jewel become obsolete later on and you can't even remove them from inventory, for example). So I just turn them into some items that bestows useful battle psyenergies that I design myself (e.g. turning Douse Drop into Regen Drop, item that bestows the Regeneration psynergy).

Well, sorry for overextending myself. Your patch is great, congratulations. Keep it up.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 02, 2019, 04:34:52 AM
So now that I've reached the Western Sea and did some Sequence Breaking by going to Contigo first to empty out all of my Game Tickets, I have a couple things:

  • Golden Boots are now the 3rd Worst boots (Turtle and Leather Boots being the two worst). As I've stated a few times now, Luck just isn't worth investing in until you can break 40 Luck, which can only be feasibly reached by Angel Mia with all the Luck Boosting Mercury Djinn, Psychic Circlet, and Clotho's Distaff. This kinda defeats any reason to bother with activating the Thieves' Bonus Event back in TBS for a Password Transfer. On the flipside, the Fur Boots are now actually useful thanks to the HP Boost.
  • Brilliant Circlet and Floral Dress are direct downgrades from the Astral Circlet and Cocktail Dress respectively. the Brilliant Circlet only adds one singular point of Luck over the Astral Circlet and lacks the MaxPP Bonus. Floral Dress' effect is just awful garbage. Why bother with Sleep when Stun exists? Cocktail Dress effortlessly beats out the Floral Dress. This is a pretty considerable problem since the defense bonus from either armor piece isn't enough to justify losing the extra MaxPP from either previous piece.
  • What is Elementalist's Role? Incantrix and Fateweaver are strong Offensive Mages with some good supportive capabilities, but I can't tell if Elementalist is supposed to fall under the same vein or have a different role.
  • I know that MT Heals had their PP Cost drastically boosted and the healing boost from elemental power was nerfed to weaken Dual-Wishing Teams, however, with both nerfs in effect, Dual-Wishing is honestly kind of pressured on to the party. One Wisher will quickly deplete their PP Pool, and likely won't be able to heal enough HP when fighting bosses such as Doom Dragon or Dullahan. I think un-nerfing the healing bonus from Elemental Power will help alleviate the pressure to use Dual-Wishing, since it will better allow for one Wisher with encouraged smarter healing (as opposed to simply spamming MT Heals).

And here's a few ideas I've come up with:

  • Would it be possible to have the Douse Drop and Frost Jewel to bestow their entire Psynergy Lines, like the Sand Prince and Snow Queen Jewels in Dark Dawn? These would make them much more useful in TBS as it gives everyone but Mia a Base Damage Mercury Option they wouldn't normally have in a good number of their classes.
  • Give Jenna's Heretic a Venus Fume Psynergy and swap Punji with the Jupiter Psynergy closest in base power. This would give the Ker's Weight purpose and thus make sense for a Cursed Mage Build.
  • This is a pretty big one, but I thought about how to make the Rising Mace and the Silver Greaves more useful since Paladin/Holy Knight aren't worth using. The solution I came up with was scrapping Paladin/Holy Knight altogether and crafting Mage Classes to replace them. Since Jenna gets a Warrior Class in Valkyrie, I figured why not give a Mage Class to the guys? Paladin could be replaced by a Mercury Fateweaver with a Mercury Fume, Plasma, and Heal/Wish/Boon. Holy Knight could be replaced with a Mercury Heretic, with Mercury Fume, Tornado/Plasma, and Gaia/Punji. Naturally, these classes would likely have the lowest attack, defense, and HP multipliers of the tri-elemental classes, but boast the highest PP, Ward, and possibly Luck. This way they're not stepping on the toes of the Hybrid Classes, since those will be more durable and more versatile than a purely caster class.

That's about all I could think of for now. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on these.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, I just remembered that I found this weird text glitch. Sheba still changes to the Tamer class just fine when equipping it, and it only happens when she changes to Tamer specifically. I don't think I've seen this happen with her other classes, though. It's a minor and kinda funny glitch, so no worries if you can't fix it.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on March 02, 2019, 07:55:13 PM
Wind Seer:
You've been asking for a Venus Hagbone Mace to have extra :VenusStar: Power, but there already is Tungsten Mace (Crafted from Golem Core) that has 15  :VenusStar: Power, over Hagbone's 12 :JupiterStar: Power. It does have lower atk (129 vs 143) but if you want it for casting it's good.

You don't like Paladin/Holy knight and I agree, persolnaly, I don't want to use them, but I don't think they are bad classes, they fit their theme very nicely. Also think that Cal rates Def and HP way higher than you or I do, and that is likely not going to change. I think the main issue with these classes is that there isn't really a place where they shine because all the enemies are similarly affected by physical attacks and psynergy attacks; If there was a boss (pre-reunion) that had UBER defense and low resistances (kinda like FF Flans) then you would want to have the guys heal and the girls be in offensive classes with Fume/ Punishment. Thing is if this boss was after reunion, you would probably go full mages.
Other than this you would need some boss with really high atk-based MT (high enough that it makes the mages die in one turn) so that you go full warriors with 2 of them wishing, but that would probably be hard to make work.
Still, it's not a bad strategy to have one of your double Wishing come from a low speed unit, since that way you would heal some of the damage the boss did in this turn, which could save someone. Ex: If the boss does 400dmg three times, its really significant if all of that comes at once (1200 would kill most) or it there is a wish in between (-400-400+500-400=700 final).

I agree that Golden Boots are underwhelming if you compare them to end-game gear, but since you get them so early in the game maybe we should be comparing them to the other alternatives available at that moment? It will be a strict upgrade for anyone using Leather Boots and will remain so through all Eastern Sea up until Contigo. Still, I don't agree that Luck is meaningless unless its capped and it's not true only Angel Mia can reach said cap.

On the Circlets and Dresses I agree completely.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 02, 2019, 08:19:47 PM
The Tungsten Mace is a bit too weak for my liking, but since the Knight Greaves give +10 :VenusStar: Power, I'm willing to let go of an Endgame Venus Mace.

The Paladin/Holy Knight aren't bad classes, per se, however they certainly are the least useful of the classes available to the Warriors. Due to how fast Attack scales upwards, Defense is kind of moot, and the rising number of Base Damage attacks the further you go in the game also renders Defense pointless. HP also scales up absurdly fast, which kind of make High HP Classes a bit redundant since they'll have super high HP regardless of their class.

A lot of the boots have been adjusted to where only the Monster Drop Boots/Shoes can be considered "endgame", so the Golden Boots are very lackluster of the available boots before the Ninja Sandals and Knight & Silver Greaves are available. It's not exactly any strong point to be better than the Leather or Turtle Boots, especially considering the steps you need to take to unlock the Golden Boots.

Angel Mia is really the only one who will hit 40Luck at a reasonable level. At Lv.42, I just barely broke 40Luck with the aforementioned Djinn Set-up and equipment, whereas other characters would likely have to abandon some very strong endgame gear to come close to 40 Luck around that same level. 15 Luck on my Cursed Fury Ivan and Cursed Guardian Jenna was plenty enough for all of endgame.

EDIT:
To clarify what I mean by "defense being moot" in regards to the super fast Attack scaling, I never really found any reason to care about defense past getting the most recent armor piece, up until 300 Defense. Once you hit 300, it becomes more of a question of "which pieces of armor help boost my offense?" rather than "which pieces of armor give the highest yields of bulk?"

I don't know the damage formula, but I don't think defense has enough weight to really be worth investing past 300 or even using a Tank Class past that 300 benchmark. Not to mention it's often times better to go balls to the walls with offense to clear out the random encounters before they do too much damage to the party.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 06, 2019, 10:13:20 AM
Quote
Golden Boots
It has a niche. Sounds good enough to me.

Quote
Brilliant Circlet and Floral Dress are direct downgrades from the Astral Circlet and Cocktail Dress respectively.
Astral Circlet doesn't add Luck. Floral Dress has always been the "dud" of the Lemurian fountain.

Quote
What is Elementalist's Role?
Elementalist is a Fateweaver toned down offensively with better support. It's the venus child of fateweaver and pure mage. AKA the best i could came up with for a venus mage bound to GS1.

Quote
I think un-nerfing the healing bonus from Elemental Power
I changed my mind three times while writing this answer. First was no cause i want elemental bonuses to be the same for offense and healing, then yes cause offense has the pp multiplier to compensate, then no again cause this would give an unfair and unfixable advantage to classes with less elements.

Quote
Would it be possible to have the Douse Drop and Frost Jewel to bestow their entire Psynergy Lines
impossible

Quote
Give Jenna's Heretic a Venus Fume Psynergy and swap Punji with the Jupiter Psynergy closest in base power. This would give the Ker's Weight purpose and thus make sense for a Cursed Mage Build.
Heretic is the jupiter tri-elemental.

Quote
since Paladin/Holy Knight aren't worth using.
You say that, also i'd rather boost Paladin and Holy Knight than scrap them, seeing how unique they are.


Quote
Oh yeah, I just remembered that I found this weird text glitch. Sheba still changes to the Tamer class just fine when equipping it, and it only happens when she changes to Tamer specifically.
Pics don't help me... i need details to replicare that. How many and which types of djinn did she have equipped?

Quote
Angel Mia is really the only one who will hit 40Luck
I'm assuming you know this false cause any other caster with access to a 130% Luck class can do the same.

Quote
I don't know the damage formula, but I don't think defense has enough weight to really be worth investing past 300 or even using a Tank Class past that 300 benchmark
There are no benchmarks in the damage formula. It's just a subtraction.

Quote
clear out the random encounters
why would you care about them? literally anything works... it's against bosses that you have to actually think about your class/gear setup


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 06, 2019, 04:27:45 PM
It has a niche. Sounds good enough to me.
a niche one would rarely use. Its previous niche of being part of an HP Regen Tank armor set was honestly more useful, in my opinion.

Quote
Astral Circlet doesn't add Luck. Floral Dress has always been the "dud" of the Lemurian fountain.
That's my bad with the Astral Circlet, but it doesn't change the fact that the Brilliant Circlet is a direct downgrade, especially considering it comes right after a Boss where the luck boost might actually be useful. Not to mention that simply brushing aside the Floral Dress' blindingly obvious flaw like that just seems lazy to me.

Quote
I changed my mind three times while writing this answer. First was no cause i want elemental bonuses to be the same for offense and healing, then yes cause offense has the pp multiplier to compensate, then no again cause this would give an unfair and unfixable advantage to classes with less elements.
That would honestly benefit them, since it would give more reason to use Dual and Mono-Elemental classes instead of just slapping on tri-elemental classes.

Quote
Heretic is the jupiter tri-elemental.
The Ker's Weight really doesn't have much use on Guardian by being Cursed, when Guardian would want PP Regen instead of Cursed Gear. And as it stands, Guardian is the only one who benefits from it. Un-cursing it and making the Lachesis' Rule or the Atropis' Rod the Cursed Staff is really the only course of action I can think of to make Ker's Weight worth using, given the current classes.

Quote
You say that, also i'd rather boost Paladin and Holy Knight than scrap them, seeing how unique they are.
Considering that defense doesn't have enough weight for the ~30 defense loss going from Chaos Lord to Jonin to mean anything, Paladin's/Holy Knight's tanky roles don't have much use. Not to mention, like I said earlier, high HP classes are kind of redundant what with how high HP skyrockets. If you want these classes to be relevant, then I suggest nerfing everyone's overall HP scores and tweaking the damage formula so a 30 Defense loss does have a significant impact.


Quote
Pics don't help me... i need details to replicare that. How many and which types of djinn did she have equipped?
Given that she's a Savant, and I stated that I took that after "sequence breaking" and going straight to Contigo after Lemuria, I was hoping it was obvious she had 7 Mercury Djinn.

Quote
There are no benchmarks in the damage formula. It's just a subtraction.
300 Defense is about where endgame randoms deal less than 200 damage with normal attacks (if I remember right), and given how absurdly high your HP scores will be at that point (800-900+), anything dealing less than 200 to the party isn't worth caring about.

Quote
why would you care about them? literally anything works... it's against bosses that you have to actually think about your class/gear setup
Considering random encounters can actually kill you if you're careless or force you to deplete huge amounts of PP, you'll tend to favor classes that can deal with random encounters quickly. Against most bosses, any extra defense past 300 or so is moot either due to the bosses having sky high attack scores, or due to them using base damage attacks. Again, tweaking the damage formula so defense actually does matter past 300 or so, or simply giving higher defense to armors and the character's innate defense scores, will easily change this matter.

EDIT:
I'm looking at v1.73a via Atrius' editor, and holy moley are these modifier values right? for example, it shows Archon with 390% HP, 330%Atk, 330%Agility, 300%MaxPP, 300%Defense, and 200% Luck.

are all of these blank slots shown able to be filled? because if so, then there's plenty of room for new items, some psynergies, and maybe like one or two classes. I personally would like to see the 50PP Recovery item from Dark Dawn to show up here and be buyable, so we have a reason to actually use the money we get (along with Mountain Waters being buyable in the Eastern Sea).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 07, 2019, 12:23:06 AM
you need to halve them. or just look at the class doc.
as for items/psy, i lack icons. for classes, just no. we already discussed the 4th item class


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 07, 2019, 02:05:00 AM
I really don't care about a 4th Item Class at this point. I was just noting that given the number of blank slots, there's room for one or maybe two classes.

aren't Punishment, Heal, and Boon recolors of pre-existing icons? (Ray line flipped upside-down, Wish/Aura, and Cure/Ply respectively) If so, couldn't you recolor some other item icon (like maybe the Mint item?) for an equivalent to Dark Dawn's Ginseng? Having something to bridge the gap between Mountain Waters and Psy Crystals, like Corn did for Herbs and Nuts, would be very nice, especially if we can freely buy them.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 08, 2019, 11:46:10 PM
aren't Punishment, Heal, and Boon recolors of pre-existing icons?
No recolors. I have a fixed number of slots, each different icons takes 1 (can easily be seen from the editor).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: TheHappyCatsTail on March 11, 2019, 01:25:05 AM
hey so I've got a weird question. i experienced something.... odd. i apologies in advance if its a dumb question lmao. its not a problem it just confused the hell out of me so i literally made an account to ask this question lmfao! it bothered me that much yes! :P not sure if its hack related or base game related but 2 of the djinnis had swapped locations for me. to be specific Mud :VenusDjinni: and Chill :MercuryDjinni: in the lost age. Chill :MercuryDjinni: is supposed to be encountered on the world map in southern gondowan and Mud :VenusDjinni: in gabomba catacombs. but i encountered Mud :VenusDjinni: on the over-world instead in Chills :MercuryDjinni: location, and Chill in Muds location. did you swap them around in the hack or is that something that can happen in the base game if you go djinni hunting as soon as you get to gondowan? i'm not crazy i sware! lmao i looked up 20 million different guides and found screenshots of Chill being encountered in southern gondowan. I've played through both games an uncountable amount of times and I've never seen this before so i naturally assumed it was hack related. if its base game related its such a minor thing that i would wager people just simply haven't noticed this happening before. and i'm curious what the point of such a thing would even be if its hack related. again i know this is a weird question but its bothering me lots and making me feel like I've gone mad or something :P Lmao

by the way you've done an excellent job with this, really spiced up the games and after 50 billion playthroughs it was sorely needed for me :P thanks loads!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fox on March 11, 2019, 01:59:36 AM
Hack related

http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2779.msg47868;topicseen#msg47868
Quote
Djinn:
Mud and Chill swapped places


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: TheHappyCatsTail on March 11, 2019, 02:06:35 AM
Hack related

http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2779.msg47868;topicseen#msg47868
Quote
Djinn:
Mud and Chill swapped places

ahh thanks okay. i'm not crazy after all!! :P lol probably should read through all these pages first before making that comment but thats such an odd thing to change. i'm curious what the reasoning behind it is


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fox on March 11, 2019, 02:12:22 AM
I used the search feature to find that post, by the way. (Use the search feature while in this topic so you only get results from this topic.)

Also, the swap is mentioned in the first post of this topic too. (Missed it at first.)

Quote
Early Game Djinn Imbalance
When Piers joins you end up with 2/3/3/5 Ve/Ma/Ju/Me Djinns. Swapping Mud with Chill changes the distribution to a much more manageable 3/3/3/4.


Trivia/FYI:
I see the grammar error is common...

Djinni = singular
Djinn = plural

And the game always starts the word with a capital letter.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: TheHappyCatsTail on March 11, 2019, 02:24:32 AM
I used the search feature to find that post, by the way. (Use the search feature while in this topic so you only get results from this topic.)

Also, the swap is mentioned in the first post of this topic too. (Missed it at first.)

Quote
Early Game Djinn Imbalance
When Piers joins you end up with 2/3/3/5 Ve/Ma/Ju/Me Djinns. Swapping Mud with Chill changes the distribution to a much more manageable 3/3/3/4.


Trivia/FYI:
I see the grammar error is common...

Djinni = singular
Djinn = plural

And the game always starts the word with a capital letter.

ahh okay yeah that makes a tonne of sense actually i was always bothered by that in the base game thanks (: hopefully i wont have any other dumb questions lol but if i do ill make sure to use search first :P and i always thought the plural AND singular of Djinni was just.... Djinni :P good to know lol :P not that it matters a whole lot lmao.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 11, 2019, 11:52:22 PM
Quote
if i do ill make sure to use search first
Most of the time there's no need to go that far. Checking the first post should be enough


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fox on March 12, 2019, 09:34:26 PM
Depending on the information you are looking for.

Does the first post explain why the Djinn were switched?


--

@Djinn(i) grammar = Yeah, I thought maybe you might have not known, which is why I mentioned, in case it is of interest. (And it is related to the topic still, but different.)
It is an interesting piece of information... Psynergy is also capitalized... and I'm guessing the same spelling is used for singular and plural. (Could be the same, just like how "code" is singular and plural... Although, I'd argue that "codes" is fair enough, since the way I see it,... if it can be easily understood, it shouldn't really matter. Heheh.)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on March 14, 2019, 05:18:27 AM
(http://)I just finished a playthrough of TBS and you really nailed the difficulty curve in this game. I can't think of anything that was too easy or too hard except maybe Deadbeard and Fusion Dragon being too easy. I managed to beat Deadbeard at level 26 (no Break this time!!) and Fusion Dragon at level 28 for reference, though I think I could have done it at lower levels. Saturos and Menardi are actually harder than Fusion Dragon in my opinion but none of the bosses are pushovers. Hydros Statue was my favorite boss fight and probably the hardest. Attached is a screenshot of my very close victory.

I'm playing TLA now and it feels like I need to level grind while I didn't in TBS. I don't think my behavior for fighting vs running from enemies is different between the games, yet my level 13ish squad is getting destroyed in Gondowan Cliffs. I had similar struggles in Yampi Desert and Air's Rock where if two or three enemies decided to gang up on Sheba or Jenna they'd just go down in a single round of combat. To me it seems the experience gain doesn't scale with the enemy strength as much as in TBS so I end up a little underleveled. Other than that, the game is still solid so far. King Scorpion was a great fight but Briggs and Chestbeaters were a little too easy. Briggs' squad spends too many turns doing nothing so I don't need to worry too much about healing. I've actually been finding Djinn harder than the bosses so I resorted to Poison cheesing against many of them like Blitz, Kindle, and Mud.

A general thing I've noticed is critical boosting items are pretty bad until very late in TLA. There is little reason to stack crit when you won't realistically pass 60% chance anyway, so I tend to favor items with better combat stats and using Ragnarok and similar Psynergy on my warrior adepts. I think a lot of the the earlier crit boosting items could have their crit values improved without being imbalanced since they will still have to compete with strong attack Psynergy and Djinn that are more reliable and deal comparable damage. Warrior adepts don't really care about burning a bit of PP on these attacks since they can be counted on to deal good damage.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 14, 2019, 12:26:58 PM
I'm playing TLA now and it feels like I need to level grind while I didn't in TBS. I don't think my behavior for fighting vs running from enemies is different between the games, yet my level 13ish squad is getting destroyed in Gondowan Cliffs. I had similar struggles in Yampi Desert and Air's Rock where if two or three enemies decided to gang up on Sheba or Jenna they'd just go down in a single round of combat. To me it seems the experience gain doesn't scale with the enemy strength as much as in TBS so I end up a little underleveled.

Level 10-18 (Yampi to Kibombo) in TLA is the hardest to balance. Usually is pretty easy since TBS scales really well so it's just about finding a good multiplier to the stats there (on top of some changes to the skills) and copy paste them to TLA, which is way easier than the predecessor.

But TBS assumes that you gain Mia at 10, and scales accordingly. In TBS though, Piers joins at 18, so with a mere copy paste from TBS (my starting point) you end up fighting enemies balanced for a team of 4 with a team of 3. I obviously made a lot of changes since then, trying to smooth out that difficulty spike but getting rid of it is another thing sadly (moreso if you're a bit underleveled).

Thanks for the feedback ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on March 15, 2019, 04:26:28 AM
I just finished Aqua Rock and I'm still not sure what Piers is supposed to contribute to my team at this point in the game. He learns literally no offense Psynergy better than Froth Spiral until level 23 where he can finally get Hail Prism, though that's only in his base class which is otherwise pretty bad. He's worse at both physical attacks and AoE than Felix until level 23 where he finally learns Hail Prism so he's been relegated to using Mad Blast and Healing Aura in Aqua Rock because he just doesn't have better options. He's tanky but that's about all he has going for him and it doesn't really matter when the other Adepts just go down instead of him because he doesn't do enough damage to kill anything. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on how to use Piers pre-Hail Prism because I have no idea how to make him useful.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 15, 2019, 05:18:02 AM
I just slap Piers under Mars for better ST physical damage or Jupiter to help out his speed. Admittedly, Piers doesn't really shine until you gain access to Tri-Elemental classes (or slap him under Tamer or Pierrot).

The Warrior Psynergy lists honestly baffle me, since in just about every class outside the Hyrbids have VERY low PP Cost Psynergies (Jonin has Shuriken which is still fairly cheap for strong damage). Even when spamming the strongest available Psynergy in battle, the Mages almost always burn through their PP pools FAR faster than the guys do (especially in during the Eastern Sea if you snag Luna Shields for Piers & Felix). Obviously there's not much that can be done here since the Warriors typically AREN'T supposed to have super strong Psynergy, but maybe giving Jenna & Sheba a PP Regen armor piece during the Eastern Sea will help balance out that weird disparity of PP Sustain between the Warriors and Mages?

Also would it be possible to make a Psynergy that dispels Debuffs from the party? It could use the same Icon and graphics as Break, since they have similar functions. It'd be a handy way to shake off nasty debuffs without having to fight so hard against a constant stream of debuffing (like Aviamander's Star Mine easily crippling the party with its Resistance Debuff, making Ward not strong enough to keep up). If you think having it affect the party would be too strong, simply make it ST to force players to be mindful of who's most important to return to their normal stats. (e.g. Dispelling Jenna's heavy Defense & Resist debuffs so she's not at such a huge risk of dying over the next few turns, or Dispelling Felix's Attack debuffs to help shorten the battle.)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on March 15, 2019, 05:53:11 AM
Aside from endgame if you learned all your Psynergy, Mages don't even have stronger Psynergy than warriors aside from Piers who has a horrible Psynergy list in all his classes until around level 27. It all depends on what level your adepts are. For instance, Felix with Clay Spire/Tornado hits a lot harder than Jenna with Flare Storm/Briar which makes him the better caster until Jenna learns Volcano/Searing Beam.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 15, 2019, 03:47:47 PM
The Flare line is just plain awful. The Thorn line is also pretty bad, but nowhere near as awful as Flare. Student Sheba has a pretty stinkin' unfair advantage over Miko Jenna, since Plasma and Ice are the 3rd strongest Psynergy lines of their respective elements. Meanwhile Miko only has Fume for comparable offense, which isn't good for random encounters, and Thorn is incredibly underpowered for Miko's only means of AoE damage.

Those combined are why I either put Jenna under Monk for stronger damage + Wish, or Jupiter for some very powerful Psynergy and Paralyze.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on March 23, 2019, 05:23:36 AM
Did Balrog get harder recently? He's been destroying my level 37 team this run. I thought 40 luck on Mia would be enough but he still manages to Djinn Stun --> stun or sleep her surprisingly often. Also he straight up oneshots my squishier adepts with Stun Jip sometimes which is terrifying since I can't rely on having Granite/Shade/Flash up each turn.

Edit: I did manage to win but it was a struggle. I probably had to use revive Psynergy/Djinn at least 10 times and I cast 1-2 Wish Well / Estre Wood each turn. It would have been much easier if I level grinded for Pure Wish so I could get away with only one party heal per turn instead of needing two. I tried the Moloch strategy that I did last time but sometimes he'd just summon Moloch himself without me being able to disrupt him.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Average Wind Seer on March 23, 2019, 02:07:37 PM
I think I was about Lv.42 with Guardian Jenna, Jonin Garet, Piers (don't remember his class. Might've been Destroyer or Archon), and Ivan (either Fury or Pure Mage). Ivan is very helpful here since he can use any leftover Djinn from the previous round to Summon before Balrog gets his turn (I think. I don't remember if Balrog is faster than Ivan).

Stun Jip is pretty dangerous, but even at Lv.42+, it can be fatal if he summons Zagan a few times first. Not to mention his Djinn Stun makes relying on 40+ Luck for status immunity a moot strategy.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MahouShounen on March 29, 2019, 05:30:32 PM
I'm so excited! This seems a really well thought job! Can I ask for an Italian mod for both games?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on March 29, 2019, 05:41:46 PM
Replied to Mahou in PM, as for Balrog I think haven't touched him for a very long time now. If the changelog doesn't say otherwise, it's safe to assume he's the same as the last time you fought him


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Hervé on March 30, 2019, 05:02:33 PM
Hello,

How can I know if my rom of Golden Sun: The Broken Seal has been patched ? The game doesn't seem really hard. I used a "USA Europe" rom.

Edit below : OK, it's patched then ! Thank you !


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on March 30, 2019, 06:21:51 PM
Easiest way to know is to check Garet's Psynergy. If he has Flare it's not patched if he has Blast it is. If you find it's not patched try a different ROM, a USA only ROM. Don't expect the enemies to be uber hard though, its pretty nicely balanced


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: MahouShounen on March 31, 2019, 11:28:34 PM
Just defeated Trent and I'm having so much fun! Only con I can find is that I wish the game was a bit harder, but that's kinda my fault too, as an hardcore fan of old school turn based rpg and liking to grind up, I always get full equip and more levelled up than I should be before going in the new dungeon and boss. I didn't need to heal myself with Trent but the fight lasted decently long even tho I was more than ready. If you're still patching this wonderful mod and you're searching for feedbacks, mine is: it's perfect, but if you can, make it harder! :)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Hervé on April 05, 2019, 02:06:17 PM
I am almost at the end of GS1 and preparing for GS2.

Quote
Each forgeable material now has a "target level range" and the places where they can be found have been changed accordingly.
Tear stone: ~21. very early eastern sea.
Stardust: ~23. early to mid eastern sea. Taopo, aqua rock and early gaia rock.
Sylph feather: ~25. Mid to late e.sea. Ankhol to Lemuria.
Dragon Skin: ~28. early w.sea. From right after grind till shaman village.
Golem Core: ~30. Contigo till reunion.
Sala Tail: ~33. From reunion to Loho.
Mythril silver: ~35. Loho to Prox.
Orichalcon & Dark Matter: After teleport.

How does it work exactly ? Can they be found on all the monster of the area ?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 05, 2019, 02:21:02 PM
No, i'm just saying what the overall level of the item is. I rearranged treasure and drops from that though, and you can find info about both in the respective sections (same post).


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Hervé on April 05, 2019, 03:35:22 PM
I read that on the golden sun wiki :

Quote
If you fell a Chimera Mage with the attack effect of an offensive Mercury Djinni, there is a 1/16 chance it will drop a Spiked Armor

I got a Spiked Armor, but without using a mercury Djinni (Ivan Assassin Blade). Is the wiki wrong or is the drop system changed ? Because I am trying to get a a Kikuichimonji since this morning without success using a mars Djinni on a Fenrir.

Edit : anyway, I just finished the game. My strategy at the end was always the same : granite, flash, ground on Ivan with Garet / Isaac summoning (mars / ramses) so they can come back quickly or attacking with their high attack. Mia spamming wish spells with PP recovery items.

The difficulty was OK, except for these guys way too easy to beat, even if it is repeatable.

Edit2 (below) : OK I thought killing with a specific Djinni was mandatory to have a chance to get the item, but it seems not. It is sad to have to use RNG to get these items.



Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 06, 2019, 11:25:27 AM
I read that on the golden sun wiki :

Quote
If you fell a Chimera Mage with the attack effect of an offensive Mercury Djinni, there is a 1/16 chance it will drop a Spiked Armor

I got a Spiked Armor, but without using a mercury Djinni (Ivan Assassin Blade). Is the wiki wrong or is the drop system changed ? Because I am trying to get a a Kikuichimonji since this morning without success using a mars Djinni on a Fenrir.

The RNG part of the drop system hasn't been touched but one shouldn't blindly follow the wiki, as those moves are tailored for vanilla. Learn how the RNG works from the Random Number Generator FAQ guides on Gamefaqs and adapt from there


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: bpat on April 07, 2019, 11:18:51 PM
Speaking of RNG drops, I think unique item drop rates could stand to be increased to the point where you don't need to use the RNG trick to get them. I didn't mind it at first but it started to get annoying when rigging for items that I want a bunch of like Mythril Silver and Orichalcum.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Pie Burritos on April 12, 2019, 12:31:03 AM
I just recently got into Golden Sun and figured I probably wouldn't play it again because of the tedium, but then I found this, which has proved to be several times more enjoyable than the original, and I think I'll be playing around with this hack for a while. All the changes that have been made have made the Golden Sun experience a lot more engaging, so thank you for that.

That aside though, I noticed something weird about the Karst and Agatio fight, as well as the Flame Dragons fight. Both Agatio and the Agatio Flame Dragon have a skill that massively buffs attack, but the name of the skill simply displays as "?", as shown by my screenshot below. I highly doubt this was intentional, but I also noticed that when you mentioned a while back that you were buffing Karst and Agatio because they were too easy, you included that Agatio has a "stronger high impact" but you didn't mention a specific name for the skill.

Quote
Speaking of RNG drops, I think unique item drop rates could stand to be increased to the point where you don't need to use the RNG trick to get them. I didn't mind it at first but it started to get annoying when rigging for items that I want a bunch of like Mythril Silver and Orichalcum.

Now that I've gotten everything important I want to say out of the way, I figured I would respond to this. If you're at the point where you're grinding for drops, you may as well just edit the drops in the TLA editor yourself and farm as much as you want, then change them back if they're going to fill up your inventory. Though to be completely honest, I wouldn't mind higher drop rates for most items because it's really rare for good drops to show up in any normal playthrough.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on April 14, 2019, 05:43:56 PM
Speaking of RNG drops, I think unique item drop rates could stand to be increased to the point where you don't need to use the RNG trick to get them. I didn't mind it at first but it started to get annoying when rigging for items that I want a bunch of like Mythril Silver and Orichalcum.

not gonna lie, it is annoying. but timewise, i don't know how faster it'd be if i actually decreased drops. the lowest i can realistically put them is 1/64, right below the threshold for "must use djinn" to get the drop. Correct me if i'm wrong, but with a djinn 1/64 would increase to 1/16. I think it's faster to manipulate the RNG for one battle rather find and fell 16 times a certain enemy with the right djinn.

@Pie
thanks for reporting that. it is usually the most common bugtype for my mod, cause i play with (and make changes on) my italian version and then port stuff to the english one for releases here. That's why strings are an easy miss for me, cause i just don't play with the english version to notice that and it happens that i forgot some of them while porting. btw I just released an update that gives that move the name "giga impact".

please keep reporting any text related issue or doubt you might find, no matter how little.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: dereder on May 18, 2019, 07:47:24 PM
First boss,slapped venus djinn on Ivan for cure thiefs were both dispatched easily, but the main bandit kept spamming herb
which is nice. However I didn't feel threatened by that it merely prolonged the fight
and I don't remember healing, maybe one cure ? Both Thief didn't do much damage and meanwhile
Bandit just wasn't making anything out of the extra HP he got from herb. I suppose it's a first boss, not too hard,
don't really see how to @#$% that one up. Good to ease you into the game.

Died once in Tret after failing to kill the Jup djinn after three turn, was out of PP, Garet bite it and the rest went after running from
one encounter, the next one killed me :s

Tret himself wasn't that challenging, died once because I didn't use an herb on someone and choose to attack
while Ivan was asleep, but next try I managed to beat him fairly easily with Ivan asleep most of the fight
Sadly he was the one with all the elixir, if I shared but one I wouldn't have too much problem

Proceeded without too much problem to Mercury Lighthouse, then Mimic wiped me just loaded my save
Stronger monster in the upper part of the tower killed Ivan then and I had to go back, they kept me on my toes generally
Nothing to say about Saturos, I knew he's supposed to be a little tough


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: dereder on May 22, 2019, 08:11:38 PM
Proceeded to the Fuchin Temple, their the Mimic raped my twice quite fast it was a surprise
I mean the rest of the time I can accept a mistake here and there but that was pretty nasty

Did it the third without too much problem being careful
Did a comparison with a walkthrough, normal GS:Mimic dead in three turn, 2 turn unleashing dinn then summons
3rd turn Strongest psynergy+ply on Garet
4th turn, Mimic kills Isaac with punji as I was going to Ply him, unleash djinn with Ivan and Mimic down

Mogall forest, the ape felt threatening in general it was great but I don't really push myself too muh for the rest
I was able to kill the Boss ape, but used psy crystal on Garet think. It was useful I'd never do that normally.

Hydros was hard as @#$% I was forced to have Isaac, Sofia, Ivan only healing, Sofia and Ivan unleashing Resis and Str buff djinn to have
access to healing skill. Got Sofia killed the very turn before he went down and managed to rez her with Quartz before he fell
Was I supposed to come in at lvl 19 with rez and wish ? Isaac is lvl 17 and the rest are lvl 16, didn't even get a level after lol
Took me a LOT of tries and not a single turn of mistake, usually this is final boss stuff for golden sun.
Watching a golden sun walkthrough, 4 min boss fight Tiamat does upward 300 dmg, while all other character are constantly on offense.
My guy were constantly on defense, Tiamat does around 170-180 with forge buff, and sometime I was forced to settle for Kirin
Turn out that you need just 4 mercury to get wish lol

Manticore only beat me once, after that it was a fairly good fight, but not scary after Hydros.

Kraken was alright, I only discovered that a battle without using djinn at all just eat your PP way too much.

Not much to say about Colosso really, perhaps fighers use more item ? Can't say.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: keiser on May 23, 2019, 02:01:46 PM
Nice mod ppl i have a question, i just ended the first GS ,for lost age how can i import the data it is even compatible? if someone can enlighten me will be apreciated.Thanks


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on May 23, 2019, 02:10:05 PM
99% compatible. The only thing that isn't carried is the amount of mountain water owned by a single character. To import the data you can do whatever. either export the password from GS (there was a button combination to unlock it in the menu i don't remember rn) or setup a link with emulators that can do it


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: dereder on May 28, 2019, 09:36:32 PM
Suhalla desert was sort of hard (but not undoable) so I went back to do Lunpa and such. Toadonpa was decently designed, I mean I killed him as
I was going to need a psy cristal to use. I just Planet dived him with wish on sofia and ivan. Got him second try,
I was too slow with my DPS the first and didn't pay attention to the +80 HP

I want to note I don't know when, probably before boarding the ship Djinn and Mimic stopped being threatening.

Nothing to say about Suhalla desert Boss

Venus Lighthouse shorter than I remembered. Dragon Fusion was difficult, until instead of a dedicated buffer with I can, healer with Sofia and the boy
doing the usual, I went for a Samurai/Ninja for Isaac/Garet while Sofia and Ivan both had wish, fast and slow healer while Isaac also spammed Breeze for at least one layer of
resistance. Did the same thing pretty much, but with Corono on Sofia for Deadbeard. Does he run out of PP ? Started spaming sweep only at some point ( Ivan dead in one turn if no buff)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: VardenSalad on June 04, 2019, 12:07:26 PM
Yeah, Hydros was what stopped me playing GS on my most recent run-through. Only boss I really feel simply underlevelled for; Hydros puts out so much AoE


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: renkoha on June 26, 2019, 02:32:53 PM
hi everyone, i got a doubt about class system, i'm playing golden sun TBS, and i saw that single element classes require level 13 to access final tier, but i have all 7 djinn in all elementes and max level is 12 thus i can't reach the final tier, so i was wondering if there is something i'm missing because i'm close to finish the game and i'd like to know what's the problem with elemental levels, by the way the base elemental level for each character is 5 in their respective element


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on June 26, 2019, 08:02:11 PM
In TBS you never had access to ANY final tier (both reloaded and vanilla) exactly because you had only 7 djinn at most. In TLA, where you can have up to 9 for each character, it's possible.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: renkoha on June 26, 2019, 09:55:16 PM
got it, thanks for the info, guess its time to try TLA, great work with the hack by the way, thanks for taking the time to do this, but it would be awesome if you do an update to add an extra djinn and summos to TBS


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: chocolatchau on July 25, 2019, 09:37:53 PM
this is really fun twist on one of my fav rpg i am enjoying the challenge a lot, help me out I can't complete gabomba statue puzzle even when when the electricity reaches the middle and the statues refuses to swallow the orb it is only opening its eyes or spitting fire :( why me


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 25, 2019, 10:01:57 PM
No bug on my end, make sure both lights reach the middle


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: chocolatchau on July 25, 2019, 10:53:24 PM
you're nice for responding well in that case can you check this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWtE6dx5fBI&t=3s and tell me what i'm doing wrong, is there a trick or something i'm missing here, or is this glitched bad, i have not played the game in a while but i never had this much trouble in this part, i am just confused


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on July 26, 2019, 01:14:51 AM
As you can see i have a different config so i can't say. I'd try with a different setup that still works, like making the closest tile to the idol go left instead of right to the goal


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: chocolatchau on July 26, 2019, 01:46:00 AM
Worked perfectly ah I was meant to make them reach the middle at the same time ^^ I can get further now


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Priscila on August 21, 2019, 08:13:41 AM
What weapon is better excalibur or phaeton's blade?
Also do you think it's better to use one of those jupiter weapons unleshes instead of sol blade's vs dullahan?
Does dullahan follow a loop pattern like in the original game or did you change it?
I think darksword is one the best for him but you can only run 1 cursed char.
I'm enjoying reloaded a lot btw, thanks <3


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 25, 2019, 01:41:16 AM
What weapon is better excalibur or phaeton's blade?
For raw power excalibur is better, phaeton has a chance to lower res though

Quote
Also do you think it's better to use one of those jupiter weapons unleshes instead of sol blade's vs dullahan?
yeah especially cause earth is dullahan's strong element

Quote
Does dullahan follow a loop pattern like in the original game or did you change it?
yep

Quote
I'm enjoying reloaded a lot btw, thanks <3
thanks, i'm glad :D


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fresio on August 28, 2019, 07:39:59 PM
Hey! I started to play this cause is my annual playthrough time and i finally decided to check the mod out. BUT. How can i know im playing the patched game? I don't notice any difference and i would like to make sure I'm playing the mod and not vanilla. Is there any early point in the game where you're like: oh @#$%, yeah this is it.
Thank yoy and Amazing work :heart: I'm talking about gs 1 Which apparently is called the broken seal and there's no thread for it and the changes in the changelog are not a tangible thing that I can notice right away, especially early game.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on August 28, 2019, 11:37:52 PM
IIRC in game the earliest points are:
 - Garet doesn't have Flare at Lv1 (learns Blast at 3) in GS1
 - Felix base class name is different in TLA

Hope you'll enjoy your playthrough ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: miner49er on September 02, 2019, 07:34:19 PM
Hello,
I've been stuck on the fire dragons in the mars lighthouse for 2 months now. Characters are ~lvl 32 all around. Doesn't seem possible to beat them. Do I need to grind for 10 levels?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 02, 2019, 10:04:00 PM
Target level for them is 34 assuming all djinn until that point obtained, so 2 levels only, which is not much.

But the most important thing against them is not level, but strategy. They will kill you without fail if you don't pick the right one, but once you do it becomes very easy. Speaking from experience here, i got my @#$ handed to me a few times while i wasn't putting too much tought into the fight.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: miner49er on September 03, 2019, 03:27:55 PM
oh no... guess i'll have to experiment a bit.

good to know that i'm not too far behind on levels.

BTW, are you working on any new hacks?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 05, 2019, 11:27:54 PM
oh no... guess i'll have to experiment a bit.

good to know that i'm not too far behind on levels.

BTW, are you working on any new hacks?
No plans for another hack ATM, and even Reloaded is supposed to be completed without external input, be it reporting bugs, imbalances or suggesting features i end up agreeing with.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Shogun1337 on September 11, 2019, 03:34:47 PM
Greetings Caledor! I have been following your Rebalancing hack for quite some time! Let me congratulate you and tell you, that you made an already good game even better, by fixing many of its problems.

Wanted to ask you, if I can find a documentation of every equipment, item and psynergy of your hack, with every bonus, boost and location, in order to manage and create my builds as good as possible. Keep it up!  :heart: :VenusDjinni:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 11, 2019, 04:47:45 PM
Hi Shogun, and thank you for the kind words!

Let's start with the easy stuff. The location is either the same as vanilla or changed according to the Treasures & Shops section in the opening post.

About the rest. Until now i tried to dodge the question with "use the editor" cause that's what i did at the beginning but in the end i had some spreadsheet to keep track of changes and compare values... which is what you need if you wanna optimize builds... and the editor just won't do.

There's an issue with those spreadsheets though... they're literally half in english and half in italian cause they weren't supposed to be seen by (or make sense for) anyone but me. It's still way better than using the editor alone, cause having all the values in a single page is WAY better than using the editor alone. As for the parts in italian, going back to the english name should be way faster than not using these docs at all.

So... I just uploaded them just the way they are. To make things a bit easier, since i don't have the time to fix all the names there, everyone is allowed to leave comments to ask questions, put english names where italian names are or whatever. Just use as you see fit.

Hope they'll still be useful.

Equipment doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0HGGK5up3MWgbSgeysR8VQ3YzFT8YOy/edit#gid=140150310 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0HGGK5up3MWgbSgeysR8VQ3YzFT8YOy/edit#gid=140150310)
Psynergy doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ub3UfJimPP7VcXcsZV45t0X8EMMTIWPM/edit#gid=1066041648 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ub3UfJimPP7VcXcsZV45t0X8EMMTIWPM/edit#gid=1066041648)

PS: How to comment: example in equipment, weapon, "Spada di Sol". Notice the yellow mark. Leave a comment on a cell by clicking on it with the right button of the mouse.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Shogun1337 on September 11, 2019, 08:24:59 PM
Thanks for the quick reply, Caledor! Reading the spreadsheets, and wondering why haven't you released them earlier... Everything is arranged extremely good and careful.

Followers of your hack can help you with commenting the names, and it is not so hard navigating. Will check it more thoroughly!

Congrats yet again for your efforts!  :idea: :VenusStar: :MarsStar: :JupiterStar: :MercuryStar:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on September 12, 2019, 04:13:01 AM
 :!: Wow, that's some really good resources, that's great. Thanks Caledor! :heart:
I've commented the translations on the names and some other things in the weapons page already  :happy: I'll probably do the armor one next. Maybe tomorrow.

I'm going to start a new game to try out the latest patch (I played 1.71) but with that tiny change I once mentioned: Fire Breath (Acrobat and Dragon Helm) made into a MT EPA simillar to Shuriken to check that out.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 12, 2019, 05:34:46 PM
:!: Wow, that's some really good resources, that's great. Thanks Caledor! :heart:
I've commented the translations on the names and some other things in the weapons page already  :happy: I'll probably do the armor one next. Maybe tomorrow.
Well, i'm amazed. You commented perfectly all the weapons and armors in less than a day, reporting even a few discrepancies between the docs and the actual rom. Thank you very much for your efforts. Hell, it looks even better than if the name were in english from the start, since a lot of comments (that i wouldn't have enabled otherwise) expand on the abbreviations i used.

So, thanks again. The least i can do is check those discrepancies you meticulously reported on the doc.

Moreover, since this was such a huge success i'm also allowing comments on the class doc. There's a lot of potential for permanent discussion about very specific things that will simply get buried page after page here. Like commenting "how would you use this" on a class name or "why this stat is lower/higher than the one on X" on stats, or movesets... anything, actually. I just wrote a few comments myself.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on September 12, 2019, 06:15:07 PM
Well, i'm amazed. You commented perfectly all the weapons and armors in less than a day, reporting even a few discrepancies between the docs and the actual rom. Thank you very much for your efforts. Hell, it looks even better than if the name were in english from the start, since a lot of comments (that i wouldn't have enabled otherwise) expand on the abbreviations i used.

So, thanks again. The least i can do is check those discrepancies you meticulously reported on the doc.

Oww, thanks! It's the least I could do as a "thank you!" for such a wonderful hack  :heart: It wasn't all that hard, had the Editor in one hand and my spanish on the other, it's close enough  :happy: The discrepancies are quite minor, but I didn't want other users being confused by the different numbers

Moreover, since this was such a huge success i'm also allowing comments on the class doc. There's a lot of potential for permanent discussion about very specific things that will simply get buried page after page here. Like commenting "how would you use this" on a class name or "why this stat is lower/higher than the one on X" on stats, or movesets... anything, actually. I just wrote a few comments myself.
This is great! As long as it doesn't rekindle the Jonin is OP discussion amirite?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded v1.74 release
Post by: Caledor on September 13, 2019, 01:34:33 AM
Quick v1.74 release. Fixes the errors reported on the doc by maxipotter and tweaks a few multiplier for classes i planned a looong time ago, but i felt that releasing them alone wasn't worth it.

Also i added a page on the class multiplier that lists the multipliers displayed by the editor, which are simply the in-game values doubled. If someone wants to check that i haven't screwed up, that's for them.

Quote
This is great! As long as it doesn't rekindle the Jonin is OP discussion amirite?
I'll probably just reply with a link to the page were we talked about it here :P


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on September 26, 2019, 02:46:25 AM
There I did the Psynergy doc, this one was a bit harder, some of those italian names a bit... abstract, but I'm confident in the result. Though that document could really benefit from a make-over.

Why is there an "outdated" page? why not remove it? It's a pity though, that one makes far more sense than the "updated" one.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 26, 2019, 04:52:58 PM
Thanks again maxi.  :heart:

About the names being abstract... that's due to the very strict char limit.

As for the outdated page, it was the main one originally, but then i wanted some global ranking from where i could adjust numbers better, so i copypasted everything on the other page and tweaked numbers only there. You can even see part of the graph i used to rebalance the power growth across all elements. The main part of it didn't get ported to google drive but basically i added a few points (like beginning, end and a few midway, the ones you can see) and had excel derive the growth formula from those for all the other points.

The outdated tag is mainly for "don't bother with numbers here" cause i stopped updating them as the other page was much more useful for me.

... Heck, i probably will now, though... i owe you that much.

Edit: turned out it was already up to date, lol.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fresio on September 27, 2019, 01:27:24 PM
Hello, almost done with the first gs, can't wait to go into the lost age, but, I'm having trouble farming endgame armor in venis. I really want to send a perfect save file (but also my own) to TLA but I don't know who drops what or if anything at all, i tried rng manip on gryphons and chimeras but nothing drop, idk if I'm doing it wrong or that is how it works since I can't find any docs about it. Any pointers? I kust wann het 2  featheres robes, since o think i have the best of everything else without farming. Thank you very much, I'm absolutely adoring this(http://:heart:)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 27, 2019, 04:32:53 PM
This is a question that pops out from time to time but all i can say is:

- Changed drops are listed in the first page. Everything not listed there is unchanged. Actually I don't think TBS had drops changed at all.
- If you still have doubts, use the editor to check.
- RNG manipulation guides still work flawlessly and can be found on GameFAQS. Do not follow blindly the move sequence from vanilla, learn how RNG works and adapt
- The method above works but humans can fail at math, so if you still fail try to get as close as possible to 31 and try around there (like in the 28-34 range) with savestates.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fresio on September 27, 2019, 08:46:50 PM
I guess i was doing it wrong, according to my calculations i was on 31 everytime, but i guess i wasnt counting correctly. Anyways, I managed and every rng item is ready for TLA, ninja hoods max, the boots, the kikuichimonjis and the shirts, I hope I didnt miss out on any busted items (because of the rebalance). Finally beat Fusion Dragon (Level 30 all tri elementals), it was way harder than I expected (even deadbeard i beat at 25ish).
Anyways, Im so hyped for TLA. Thank you very much again not only for the incredible rebalances but also for the quick responses, this has been an excellent experience. pls mr bowser gs4 when.
Hope I dont need to come back too much for answers for the second game. Once again thank you. Much love  :heart:


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Fresio on September 28, 2019, 10:28:20 PM
Ignore this reply, quick search confirmed feature. Sorry my b

Ok here we go, I got mud where i was supposed to get chill. Issue? Feature?


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on September 29, 2019, 01:54:45 PM
Usually all "feature or not" questions can be answered by the first page, since it's a list of features.
Anyway, hope you'll enjoy your playthrough and if you have any questions don't worry, you can find me here ;)

PS: added the link to the RNG guide on gamefaqs and a reminder at the drops section


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Maxipotter on September 29, 2019, 05:10:42 PM
Edit: turned out it was already up to date, lol.

Oh, I didn't even bother checking, dumb me. That's great though. Im going to translate that page right now. Thanks!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on November 06, 2019, 01:59:33 AM
Hey Caledor,

I've been playing through very slowly since the latest version came out, I wanted to skip a Broken Seal this time around, but meh.

But hey! I found a bug! It's easy fix I'm sure.

In TBS, If Ivan is equipped with 6 Venus Djinns, he actually becomes a Spellblade, which is one of Isaac's classes.


Okay, so I was wrong. I can replicate a similar change in class with Mia, but I just wasn’t experiencing a different class change with other characters with 6 Djinn so I assumed it was a bug. Also seeing Ivan with Ragnarok may have contributed to that. Lol

I'll have a complete write up later once I'm done with GS1 before GS2. See you then!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on November 06, 2019, 05:34:44 PM
Yeah, it's not a bug, it's a feature!TM :P

Honestly though, i simply didn't port the "class separation patch" from TLA, so classes in TBS behave just like they do in vanilla.

I'll be waiting for your report!


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on November 11, 2019, 03:28:14 AM
I'm wrapping up TBS, so I'll share my thoughts now, as they are mostly unlikely to change with just Doom Dragon left. I know TBS isn't your focus, and TLA is where all the work goes, so I'll keep it brief. I tried to think about the game a little differently from a balancing design prospective so hopefully it's somewhat useful.

One think I'd like to mention is it's been almost 10 years since I've played vanilla, so honestly it's hard to remember what I'm comparing the base game too. So if I get some details wrong, bare with me.

Journey
  • I always go to Imil before going to Kolima. So Imil is a grind and struggle where as Kolima is easy peasy. I should probably play them in their intended order one of these days huh?
  • Okay so here is one of the few things I wanted to mention from a balance/experience perspective. For some reason the wild encounters around Tolbi don't yield more exp than around Kalay, even though it's a fair bit later in the game. What's weird to me is that monsters in Vault Cave seem to give more exp, than around Tolbi when I feel like it should most certainly be the opposite. Maybe I had some bad luck with encounters or vanilla wasn't balanced very well here? I honestly I have no idea and it's not that big of a deal, I just thought it was worth bringing up.
  • Classes this time ended looking up like this:
     :Isaac: : Black Knight (6 :MarsStar: 1 :VenusStar:) Primary Damage dealer. He also has pretty decent speed with this layout too.
     :Garet: : Luminier (6 :MercuryStar: 1 :MarsStar:) One of my favorite classes for Garet in the entire mod. Garet is slow, so healing and res on him I find so useful. Makes it so the character lives after they get res'd most times (lol)
     :Ivan: : Augur (6 :VenusStar: 1 :JupiterStar:) Unfortunately, Ivan got the leftovers this time around. Though healing at the beginning of the turn is vastly useful.
     :Mia: : Wise (6 :JupiterStar: 1 :MercuryStar:) I tired not to overdo party healing, but I always have to have one. Often go with Mia because Mythril Circlet is a thing.

    Seemed to work well this time around! But TBS is never the struggle. TLA I play in hard mode so that one is always tricky to figure out what works. I always end up going tri-elemental classes in that game so we'll see what I lean towards soon.
Bosses
  • I struggled on 0 of these this time around, I think that's because I've been playing the game for a while so I know what strategies work, but I'll play devil's advocate here and agree with what most comments say: Hydros Statue is probably the hardest boss in the entire game. Almost every time I play this I have to set up my djinn differently, which is a good thing! But I do think this boss is mighty difficult without AoE healing which is hard to achieve with what Djinn you have up to this point.
  Toadonpa
  • This boss kicked my @#$ then I realized I forgot to grab Hail near Tolbi. Oops. This is one of the harder fights in the game though if you go and do it as soon as you can.
  Deadbeard
  • I don't know how much control you have over most things with the editor, but out of the 4 or so times I've played this mod, I've almost exclusively won this fight due to Deadbeard running out of PP. I really don't remember this happening in vanilla, but like I said it's been a while. I think this is possibly a side effect of the ton of balancing you've done for player skills, and as a result, Deadbeard's PP costs have gone through the roof. I can beat this fight at level 25, (which I think is pretty low/on par for this fight) once I get at least one character with Wish Well it's pretty easy. Though I'm not sure how difficult you want it to be. I guess my suggestion here is to see if you can up his max PP if you can, so it's not so easy to stall until his PP is drained. I don't even think this is a difficult boss in vanilla and I'm not sure how difficult you want to make it, but yeah. I'm beginning to ramble here, so moving on.

That's more or less it! Like I said, didn't want to go too crazy with this game because TBS isn't the focus. Hopefully you found something helpful or at least it was entertaining to read.  :happy:

To be continued in TLA! (However long that may take hehehe)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on November 12, 2019, 04:29:37 PM
This is pretty much in line with what i'd expect from an experienced player.

About the journey, yeah: that early into the game you WILL feel the difference from just a few levels, no way around it. Gonna have to check the exp thing though.

About bosses, it's no surprise to me that Hydros statue has the biggest spike in power level, cause i expect people to get the 4th water djinn before fighting him (and thus party heal, which is the #1 gamechanger in GS).

As for Deadbeard yeah, you were def underleveled (again, experienced player), so you won by outliving him. I can definitively remove that (every enemy has a PP regen stat) but unless you can actually stall (like chaining walls and stuff) instead of simply outlive him i don't really see the need for a change. AKA i'm okay with you being rewarded for fighting well instead of making it just a dps race, less ok if you hide behind walls and such until he runs out of juice.

I always have a good time reading your reports, hope you'll enjoy TLA as well! ;)


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on November 14, 2019, 09:03:15 PM
I’m back quicker than I thought. This time I actually found a bug (unlike last time lol) Guardian’s Ring is halving max HP. I’m pretty sure the value for the HP multiplier is set to 0.5 when I’m pretty sure the value for the item should be set to 1.5.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on November 14, 2019, 09:07:48 PM
eh. i can guess the bug without opening the editor nor the documentation. it's supposed to be hp+5 but a value of 5 coupled with the hp multiplier means x0.5


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Chronotakular on November 15, 2019, 01:48:55 AM
That makes more sense. I was like 1.5x seems way too strong. Haha.


Title: Re: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded
Post by: Caledor on November 20, 2019, 03:05:27 PM
after days of struggling with the editor i finally managed to fix the guardian ring. Patch is up.