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Hello danikain!

The forums proper aren't really as active as they should be these days, but there's a discord server here and actually knowledgeable people will be glad to help you there.

I think there are some Stun-inducing Djinn in GS2 that use effect 85. It's probably intended to increase the chance of it hitting by attempting to proc multiple times.

What enemy (if any) has sidestep? If nothing has it, I wonder if it might be related to miss chance of standard attacks? (Or, possibly, was intended to cause the user to automatically dodge all standard attacks during the round in which it is used.)

As for Crazy Voice… nope, I got nothin'.

I think base 100% for single-target debuffs and base 120% for multi-target debuffs seems appropriate. Perhaps reduce these numbers a little bit to make ailment rate-boosting equipment worthwhile.

Currently the values are: base 70% for djinn (damage with debuff attached in general), base 95% for ST debuff and 125% for MT debuff.

Those numbers are… actually close to fine, though damage with debuffs (Djinn in particular) should probably have a lower magnitude debuff in exchange for more consistency. Base 100% but with MT debuff magnitude seems appropriate.

Ransack is not fine. Ransack is demonstrably not fine. Or at least, it's not fine in combination with how near-impossible it is to debuff the Killer Ape's Attack stat.

I think debuffing Djinn should either have a weaker debuff, or less damage, or both. In any case, their effects should be more consistent. I will say I think combining the Killer Ape's high attack with its two turns and the existence of War Cry seems like a mistake, because you can lose half your party to Stun and be entirely unable to heal off its high damage output and just lose automatically.

In any case, my opinion is that debuff infliction rates should be high enough to almost always trigger on basic enemies (and to be absolutely guaranteed on enemies with vulnerability), and to land fairly reliably on a boss who has vulnerability to that specific debuff. I think base 100% for single-target debuffs and base 120% for multi-target debuffs seems appropriate. Perhaps reduce these numbers a little bit to make ailment rate-boosting equipment worthwhile.

ePow in this hack might be /250 instead of /200 in the damage formula since the cap for ePow and eRes was boosted to 250. Not sure that's enough to explain the weird numbers, though.

Just some miscellaneous observations...

1) I understand why Ivan doesn't have Whirlwind by default anymore (limited slots per class, wanting both a single and multi-target for him)...but I don't think that's good game design.  I know most've us have played this game before, but I still believe in designing games as though it's a player's first time; and unlike Growth, Whirlwind is necessary for getting through the story.  So instead of Bolt, I would make WHIRLWIND the single-target attack that costs 3 PP, just like how Growth is now.

Another thing is that Ivan's class is Bolt User. He's supposed to be very strongly electricity-themed in his base class.

The code change that would be necessary to make Delude viable is a pretty big one, you'd basically need to make all enemy-targeting Monster Skills be replaced by the Attack command while Delude is active in addition to its normal effects.
(Alternatively, you need to make it so it's somehow possible to give enemies weapon unleashes. That is, make it so any ability slot that is filled with Attack can also be given a chance to trigger a specified other ability instead.)

Charm and Confuse cause a status effect that doesn't actually do anything when targeting an enemy because the AI changes they were supposed to cause were never coded.

You do know that the Charm and Confuse effects don't do anything when targeting enemies, right? They still act as normal. When a player character is afflicted with them, you can't give them commands in combat, but enemies afflicted with them are still able to take actions normally.

Yeah Rowlet's pretty great. Personally I hope its final evolution has a top hat, a monocle, and a cane that it wields like a bo staff to beat the stuffing out of foes like a true gentleman.

No it's not affected. i already thought about doing that btw and i'm pretty sure i can manage somehow. Won't happen anytime soon though. My "ToDo" list is quite overloaded ATM.

I don't actually know how it works in the code, but I suspect it would be fairly simple to first modify the ability's Power value using the caster's Elemental Power and then use the modified value in the HP restoration function.

In any case, I can tell you have a rather large To-Do list right now, yeah.

This seems like a decent place for this question: the Advanced Reviving effect that Squirtle made and you're using… is its power (and thus the percent of HP restored) affected by Elemental Power? It would be pretty cool if it was.

(Also I'd still really like that %-based healing formula, especially factoring Elemental Power into the percent healed.)

Yeah, Djinn having a chance to flee means you can't even really make the fight short but intense, 'cause there'd be the risk of the RNG deciding to have the Djinni stick around for most of the fight, dealing a bunch of damage to your party, only to flee at the last moment, which ends up costing you a lot of resources for no gain.

@Jamie:  Dood, I was agreeing with you.  That was being directed at Caledor.

You said "you guys" with a plural, so I got confused.

[Spoiler]

I'm considering the possibility of removing elemental levels from the formula that calculates the success chance for ailments. For reference:

Spoiler for Hidden:

(((((((Attacker's elemental level - Defender's elemental level) - Floor(Defender's luck / 2)) * 3) + effect's base chance + (vulnerabity's 25)) * diminishing%) / 100)  >= rnd()

Reason behind this is that it's very unbalanced towards mono elemental classes and that debuffs are poorly spread among elements. But I want to hear your opinions on the matter cause I could've easily missed something important.

I think the main reason to do this would be that there's no real way to take advantage of it... there's very little leeway in what djinn you use for a certain class. Keep in mind it will affect enemy success rates as well, since they also have elemental levels.

As for debuffs being unevenly spread, I don't think it's wrong for different elements to have specialities.

The problem of course is that the Elemental Level part of the equation basically just exists to make debuffs more effective when used by enemies than when used by the player, since they get a greater variety of debuffs on each element thanks to monster skills. And the unevenness of the debuff selection is also an issue when an enemy's status vulnerability doesn't match up with their elemental vulnerability, making exploiting their weakness not as much of an option as it could/should be.

So yes, I'd say get rid of that particular part of the ailment equation.

@Djinn Storm/Misery: Which Both Djinn Storm users do - Dullahan specifically follows Djinn Storm up with Charon, while the Doom Dragon has reached the point of that fight when he starts spamming Cruel Ruin, which is basically Judgement in Base Power and Iris in HP% damage before those summons got nerfed.  Granted, that's his vanilla form, but still - both Djinn Storms follow up Djinn Storm with ridiculously powerful attacks, negating any class setups you had, nixing djinn stat bonuses, and of course now that we have a right and proper nerfed revive, preventing any real recovery from happening.

Both are summon style moves, meaning they scale with max HP and have pretty heavy damage falloff, so those actually seem like pretty good choices. I'll give you Charon since it has some pretty high base power and the instant death chance... which in my experience claims many more victims than the actual damage. Cruel Ruin is a joke in comparison, it won't even kill djinnless level 30-ish characters without prior damage.

That's for vanilla though, in this hack where revive is nerfed and summons have higher base power I could see them potentially being more of a problem (Djinn Storm + summon combo).

Yeah, losing your Djinn means you lose a whole bunch of your Luck, so you're extremely vulnerable to Charon's instant death. And even in Cruel Ruin's case, sure it can't kill a level 30-ish character without prior damage, but considering you lose access to full-party heals at lower class tiers it still cripples you.

@Sheba/Ivan:  Sorry for the slowpoke here, but... Wait, you guys see Sheba as frailer than Ivan?  Huh.  That's news to me.  You two are the first ones I know of who believe that.  I always saw her as the more sturdy one, but also the one that couldn't use the Tisiphone Edge (which is why she wasn't used).  Also, you changed the stats to match the multipliers?  Shouldn't that be the other way around?  I mean, you're changing base classes anyways (as you probably should), so why not tweak things class-side instead of growth-side?

And don't say "it's how you perceived them".  You can't both use that argument and dismiss it at the same time.

Huh? I specifically said that people perceiving Sheba as being the frailer of the two is a major Berserk Button for me, and Squirtle agreed that he viewed Ivan as the frailer one, not Sheba.

Edit: And yeah, HP to 1 effects if they're going to be present on a multi-turn boss should be available on the boss's last turn only. And someone really needs to make a patch that forces enemies to target at the beginning of the turn like the player does, rather than targeting as each ability is used. It's a known flaw with Golden Sun's AI. Having a character die to a powerful single-target attack the turn they're revived is BS.

(Actually, iirc a downed character is an option to target, but if they're not alive when that action rolls around it turns into a Defend command instead, like when your target for a standard attack dies before you get around to attacking them.)

"May drop HP to 1" effects used to have a 35% trigger rate that factored Luck, rather than one that doesn't. At least, that's what I remember it being when I went in and boosted the trigger rate of pretty much everything in my personal hack.

4- Statistically, Sheba now has the lowest atk, def and hp. best PP and Luck and second best agility. I changed those values to reflect the stat multipliers in base classes. The only reason behind this is how i personally view characters. Basically i "see" Sheba as frailer than Ivan.

Just like everyone else in this damn fandom. I swear, random fanfics having Sheba totally unable to take a hit while Ivan has to save her in a typical "chivalrous" fashion. Makes me SO mad because holy crap people, the game stats do in fact exist for a reason. Stats are an abstraction of a character's physical abilities.

Edit: Note that this isn't directed at you specifically. It's something I've seen quite often in the GS fandom, and it annoys me with how common it is. What, is the concept of an Action Girl foreign to literally everyone? Is the idea that women can be competent at physical activity so unbelievable? I've seen 'fics make Jenna out to be as squishy as Ivan normally is while throwing Ivan in with Isaac, Garet, Felix, and Piers!

[Salanewt]

February 26, 2020, 05:17:44 AM

Salanewt: New patch up; waited until now to make it because it's such a basic change, but it's here now.

[Salanewt]

February 25, 2020, 03:20:41 AM

Salanewt: Hey! Yeah, we can now make recoil damage in GS. Would you mind if I ask for a link to this video? I'm really curious. :P

[Foreclosure]

February 24, 2020, 09:38:49 PM

Foreclosure: Alas, I still gotta play BoF dragon quarters. I saw on a video you guys can now make recoil damage in golden sun. Is it too hard?

[Fox]

February 17, 2020, 04:54:34 AM

Fox: I guess one thing this game has going for it is the Day and Night cycle.

[Fox]

February 17, 2020, 04:51:46 AM

Fox: Also, I noticed since the very beginning of the game, that usually the dresser drawers (whatever you call them) have items in them.

[Fox]

February 17, 2020, 04:48:20 AM

Fox: (And I only recently got Karn, the fourth PC.)

[Fox]

February 17, 2020, 04:36:01 AM

Fox: Was playing Breath of Fire I.... and I must say.... that game's pretty bland.... listening to the same songs basically everywhere... and multiple NPCs saying the exact same thing.  Most of it plays about the same... a maze with common useless items in chests, maybe you'll get one or two fine equipment, but yeah.  ... I want to check #II again later, the game I remember playing like... over a decade ago.

[Salanewt]

February 04, 2020, 08:06:18 AM

Salanewt: We're more active on the Discord though.

[Salanewt]

February 04, 2020, 08:06:01 AM

Salanewt: Oh hey! It does, yeah.

[Mastermind]

February 02, 2020, 06:42:38 PM

Mastermind: holy crap this place still exists?

[Fox]

December 24, 2019, 09:33:09 PM

Fox: Even just plain Editor work can make some difference. = At least these forums are indexed on the Search engine. I was also curious about whether to um... go through all the topics on these forums and take all the important stuff out/placed into a folder for a bit of organization. Would be a bonus since if something ever happened to this forum, or if we ever wanted to start afresh again, it wouldn't be that difficult to do so.

[Fox]

December 24, 2019, 09:23:03 PM

Fox: One thing is for sure. This place has become completely dead. (Mostly because of Discord.)  = I don't think much will happen with this forum unless I, Salanewt, or someone else does a thing.

[Fox]

December 24, 2019, 09:18:05 PM

Fox: Probably not?

[Luna_blade]

December 24, 2019, 06:51:08 PM

Luna_blade: I suppose this is the last Christmas of this forum? 

[Luna_blade]

December 24, 2019, 06:50:51 PM

Luna_blade: Yay thanks for the coins

[Fox]

December 19, 2019, 04:39:45 AM

Fox: Okay, another thought... "gsmagic" could be the code name/project name... and "Golden Sun Magic" could be the more formal official name... (As in using both names.)  -  I still need to look into these other games as well... so who knows if it could be better to call it Camelot Magic if those should ever be supported to a decent standard.  Would probably be a long time from now, though. As I can be pretty lazy.

[Foreclosure]

December 18, 2019, 10:01:39 PM

Foreclosure: gsmagic is fine

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 05:44:32 PM

Fox: Also. I call my program "gsmagic" and not "GSMagic" =P (Not asking for correction/I being silly)... Had to call it something, so picked something short.  Maybe I should rename it to Golden Sun Magic later. *shrug*

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 05:35:04 PM

Fox: (And "Golden Sun" instead of "GS" to reduce confusion that would likely not be there anyway... when "Golden Sun" doesn't take up much space to start with. (Imagine being new and thinking GS meant GameShark, or some other oddity. Ew.)) - All just thoughts...I'm still going with most of this not mattering that much, though.

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 05:12:55 PM

Fox: "Misc. GS Hacking" = That name looks odd, so I'd probably just go with "Golden Sun Hacking"

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 05:08:05 PM

Fox: I tempted to also suggest the Editors can go in the first category. Since the Editor is the reason this place exists in the first place. (I think.)

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 04:53:19 PM

Fox: (combined = Not meant to be taken literally... but rather.... to generalize things more, since it apparently looks like we don't need the extra space no one is using.)

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 04:48:49 PM

Fox: Worse still... we've only used those for Golden Sun content.... and there's not much there.

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 04:45:53 PM

Fox: E.g. Maybe everything in "Assets & Discussion" could be combined with "Creative Works".... I don't feel like sound and art apply to general hacking anyway... that only comes into play when you have tools to insert them.

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 04:40:26 PM

Fox: categories and/or forums

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 04:36:48 PM

Fox: Everything else seems to be about right, though. Perhaps some categories could be combined(?), but doesn't really matter that much.

[Fox]

December 17, 2019, 04:33:03 PM

Fox: (I still think The Community section fits best at the bottom. =P)

[Salanewt]

December 15, 2019, 05:10:04 PM

Salanewt: Heya! I'm planning to get the demo up today, but if you can't wait then it's already available on the Discord.

[Fox]

December 15, 2019, 04:12:27 AM

Fox: (Then sell the badges on the Trade Center for a very high price... and give a lot of active people coins to buy them with, so they can basically transfer the coins to me if they want something... Gosh I could be a naughty hoarder. =P)

[Fox]

December 15, 2019, 04:06:19 AM

Fox: I'd buy up all the stock for each item too... but man... I think I'm too lazy for that. =P

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