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QuoteNot mechanically; just some items have shifted around. The trick to save right before you talk to Sunshine and keep resetting until you get the desired item still works (or memory viewing if you're into that).
QuoteBosses are now more vulnerable to debuffs that reduce their Attack, Defense and Agility and for longer than just 1 or 2 rounds. They are still immune to Poison/Venom (because otherwise these would be brokenly overpowering), and depending on the boss in question it is also easier to apply Seal, Stun, Sleep or Delusion. Different bosses have different debuff weaknesses in other words. Keep in mind that the new stat Ailment increases your chances of applying a debuff. Ailment is mostly found on cursed equipment, but you can find it on other items as well.
Djinn are susceptible to Stun, Seal and Sleep. I can confirm this because this was my go-to way to defeat them on Hard mode where they wreak havoc with their multitarget psynergies. It's just a matter of RNG if you get it to work because the creature does a Luck vs. Ailment check. I cannot say for Poison and Venom because I have not used these at all outside of weapon unleashes.
QuoteIn my experience bosses would not use Break with only 1 or 2 buffs; instead if everyone in the party was buffed (ie. 4 buffs) then they use it. So you can "fool" the AI by buffing with Guard your 2 most vulnerable characters. This is different than vanilla where I think some enemies/bosses would use Break even if you weren't buffed at all.
QuoteThis is different from my experience. Dual element classes generally make your characters more durable; not significantly compared to mono-element but definitely easier to avoid one-shots when your djinn count is low. Of course the downside is that summoning is harder to pull off properly because you may spend more time in weaker classes, but the lack of Djinn Blast / Djinn Storm in The Broken Seal means that you do not face any serious trouble.
Regarding your attempt to use dual-classes without success, I notice that you mention Ivan and Mia as classes with 5 djinn, and Garet as a class with 9 djinn. I will assume that you mean Garet is Samurai and not Ronin (renamed Shogun in the mod). In other words you empowered Isaac and Garet who are already more durable by design, at the expense of survivability on your more fragile characters. I did the exact opposite and instead used the following: Ivan - Wise, Isaac - Black Knight, Garet - Star Knight, Mia - Thaumaturge. You will notice that everyone is more durable compared to their mono-element class except for Garet. This also gave me 2 healers that alternate healing depending on if one of them needs to do some other supportive action.
Also a great tip: Dull and Blunt are amazing against bosses. I have a screenshot at home where Deadbeard hits Ivan for just 2 points of damage. For reference check this post of mine from last year. I wonder why I never uploaded it.
QuoteThere is no "wrong" way to play, just less optimal. Of course there are always faster and/or easier ways, but the great thing about the mod is that it allows many strategies and classes to work assuming the party is properly arranged. For example you mention that battles drain you a lot of PP through Wish, which can be resolved by switching to classes with higher passive damage mitigation, or by alternating Granite/Flash as you mention, or by spamming Ember and Psynergy Crystals, or by equipping items with PP-regen, or by using defensive buffs on your characters or by applying debuffs on enemies!
-=EDIT=-
As always, I take so damn long to complete a reply that Caledor has already answered everything
QuoteThink of them as stat- and class-boosting djinn, not unlike a lot of the offensive ones. In fact, with the exception of Granite/Shade/Flash, Ember/Ether/Aroma, Ground/Petra, Salt/Tonic, Kite, Haze and Eddy, I have not unleashed any of the other djinn
QuoteI will mention from experience that Doom Dragon is defeatable on the mod, on Hard mode, at level40, with duo-element classes, without using a single Summon. Key points:
- All 8 characters need to be somewhat equally durable
- The 4 members in the back party should all be able to fulfil a supportive role
- Right after Djinn Blast, switch the character with a character in the back. Once the "main" character has recovered enough djinn, switch them back to the front
- After Djinn Storm, bring the back party to the front 1-by-1 and use Defend on the characters who do not have multitarget healing. Their output will not be worth the incoming damage.
- Your strategy should not be to maximize damage per round to make the battle last fewer turns, but instead to have enough survivability to be back at full HP at the end/start of every round. This means that even your main damage-dealing character should only deal damage if there is no helpful support action they can take.
- If your main healer is about to run out of PP, bring a back-party character in their spot until PP-regen does its thing. With over 40PP/round in end-game gear and Ether/Aroma/Ember, you have virtually infinite PP.
- Do not ignore items. Potions are very powerful 0-PP-cost ST heals. Vials are good alternatives.
I cannot tell about Dullahan as I have yet to defeat him, but it's not Djinn Storm that's the most dangerous move...
Quote from: HyperMushrambo on 07, September, 2021, 02:42:35 AM1: With the changes, Orihalcon can no longer be obtained from the Hammit event? Doesn't that mean there's only like 1 or 2 in the game you can find otherwise then?Correct. Orichalcum can be found on 2 chests in the mod and then as a rare drop from Sky Dragons in Anemos Sanctum if I remember correctly.
Quote from: HyperMushrambo on 07, September, 2021, 02:42:35 AM2: Was there any change to the god-awful forging system itself?Not mechanically; just some items have shifted around. The trick to save right before you talk to Sunshine and keep resetting until you get the desired item still works (or memory viewing if you're into that).
Quote from: HyperMushrambo on 07, September, 2021, 02:42:35 AM3: Question regarding debuffs (snipped to save space)Bosses are now more vulnerable to debuffs that reduce their Attack, Defense and Agility and for longer than just 1 or 2 rounds. They are still immune to Poison/Venom (because otherwise these would be brokenly overpowering), and depending on the boss in question it is also easier to apply Seal, Stun, Sleep or Delusion. Different bosses have different debuff weaknesses in other words. Keep in mind that the new stat Ailment increases your chances of applying a debuff. Ailment is mostly found on cursed equipment, but you can find it on other items as well.
Quote from: HyperMushrambo on 07, September, 2021, 02:42:35 AM4: You also mention enemies using Break less often and thank goodness that didn't turn out to be the case. The only way I beat a couple bosses like Fusion Dragon was the fact they would use Break any time I'd get a single buff so I'd just bait them into wasting one of their attacks every turn Breaking me. So kinda a shame, I really wish I could use buffs against bosses, but also kinda a lifesaver? Was that idea scrapped too? As much as it got me through those fights I'd still like to play with buffs some time.In my experience bosses would not use Break with only 1 or 2 buffs; instead if everyone in the party was buffed (ie. 4 buffs) then they use it. So you can "fool" the AI by buffing with Guard your 2 most vulnerable characters. This is different than vanilla where I think some enemies/bosses would use Break even if you weren't buffed at all.
Quote from: HyperMushrambo on 07, September, 2021, 02:42:35 AMThe slight shuffles to the classes were interesting but unfortunately the added difficulty led to me being stuck with everyone in their base classes for most of the game because every time I experimented with classes I was just too weak to function.This is different from my experience. Dual element classes generally make your characters more durable; not significantly compared to mono-element but definitely easier to avoid one-shots when your djinn count is low. Of course the downside is that summoning is harder to pull off properly because you may spend more time in weaker classes, but the lack of Djinn Blast / Djinn Storm in The Broken Seal means that you do not face any serious trouble.
Quote from: HyperMushrambo on 07, September, 2021, 02:42:35 AMI feel like TLA is going to be a bit better with the added Djinn so I can play with the classes and I ABSOLUTELY love the changes to the base classes so far, but as I return to pick up the Tomegathericon before getting the boat the inability to use debuffs or summon rushing is starting to lend me back to those same patterns and I'm getting a little worried I'm not going to have much of a chance to really play with classes since Djinn - Djinn - Djiinn - Summon - Djinn - Djiinn - Djinn - Djiinn - Summon is starting to become my every battle tactic since everything else just burns through PP that has to otherwise be dedicated to healing only (Sorry, Sheba and Jenna you have ONE job now and that is IT.) Am I playing the mod incorrectly, or am I missing something?There is no "wrong" way to play, just less optimal. Of course there are always faster and/or easier ways, but the great thing about the mod is that it allows many strategies and classes to work assuming the party is properly arranged. For example you mention that battles drain you a lot of PP through Wish, which can be resolved by switching to classes with higher passive damage mitigation, or by alternating Granite/Flash as you mention, or by spamming Ember and Psynergy Crystals, or by equipping items with PP-regen, or by using defensive buffs on your characters or by applying debuffs on enemies!
Quote from: HyperMushrambo on 07, September, 2021, 04:23:49 AMSo besides a couple early djinn fights what's the point of the afflictions? I'm not going to waste a turn inflicting an ailment on a random monster I could just be killing instead and if they can't affect bosses they're just taking up space in the psynergy screen. Also that makes the affliction djinn all but useless. Perhaps the ones that aren't functional anymore (i.e. anything that's not Luff since it still seems to be 100% of the time) should have their abilities changed since the afflictions don't affect anything that matters? I was excited for being able to use some of those psynergies like Haunt (since you even buffed it), Sleep, Stun, and Poison especially since you added it. Do you intend for status ailments to only be used against the party? Now it kind of feels like the only available strategy is just "hit as hard as you can over and over until it dies".Think of them as stat- and class-boosting djinn, not unlike a lot of the offensive ones. In fact, with the exception of Granite/Shade/Flash, Ember/Ether/Aroma, Ground/Petra, Salt/Tonic, Kite, Haze and Eddy, I have not unleashed any of the other djinn
Quote from: HyperMushrambo on 07, September, 2021, 04:23:49 AMI dunno, I played Hard Mode many times in vanilla TLA but never really felt like I was trapped into the new playable characters being Wish Well, Granite, Flash, and Isaac haha. Some of the earlier fights I could play around with classes, I certainly did with Saturos and Tret, but after that I was locked in for the majority of the time. I think it was around Hydros statue that I was like, "This is fun and all but I NEED to use the base classes, I literally can't win without them." The base classes are reliable and tend to be the only ones that have reliable healing and damage especially since it is usually a solid choice of use djinn and summons or use unique classes but never both. You want unique classes? Your Djinn are dead to you. You want to summon something? Better be in base class the whole fight or suddenly your only healer has nothing but Astral Blast and a dream.This is true for both the vanilla version and the modded version. If you want to have an easy time with Summoning and Djinn unleashing, mono-element is the go-to way. Duo- and Tri-element classes exchange the burst of Summoning with higher durability, PP-longevity and more diverse toolkit per character (as in possessing psynergy of 2 or 3 elmenets and so having more characters that can deal extra damage to a specific target).
Quote from: HyperMushrambo on 07, September, 2021, 04:23:49 AMMy other concern that just occurred to me because of that is Djinn Storm later on. One of the main reasons to use nothing but base classes in TLA is the later bosses, especially Dullahan, using Djinn Storm. You added all these fun and exciting new changes but will I get to use them during the final battles or am I going to have to switch back to base classes for those like always?I will mention from experience that Doom Dragon is defeatable on the mod, on Hard mode, at level40, with duo-element classes, without using a single Summon. Key points:
QuoteCorrect, due to the Golden rule of equipment, Orihalcon can only be obtained after teleport.
QuoteNope, the mechanics are unchanged.Darn. Well I guess Save States will make running in and out of Yallam 90 times to get Excalibur a little faster lol. I really wish there was a mod that made that process less tedious, since it's by far the most annoying thing in the entirety of TLA.
QuoteDebuffs are specifically stat debuffs. Status afflictions like stun and poison still won't work cause they'd make most battles trivial.
QuoteThis is true. In many cases i moved Break to an enemy ability slot with a lower chance to be picked at any given turn.I did not experience that, it was an IMMEDIATE punishment. I buff, they break, I buff, they break. It was as, if not more consistent than vanilla. At least in the Saturos & Menardi and Fusion Dragon fights. As I mentioned above the immediate predictability of Break was the main thing that helped me beat Fusion Dragon.
QuoteProbably just a hard time adapting to the increased difficulty? Dunno if you ever played Hard mode TLA before but this mod is slightly harder than that for reference. Other than that i really dunno why someone would fall back to base classes after the midgame, mainly because i abandon them around 4-5 djinn per characters in GS1, in TLA even earlier since you start getting Mercury Djinn before getting Piers. And even in GS1 there are some early game boss fights where certain class setups are basically ingrained in me by now... like Defender Isaac against Saturos for Cutting Edge (and switch back to Knight afterwards) or double Ruffian/Savage against Hydro Statue, spamming Planet Diver like madmen, while Ivan buffs resistance and Mia heals.
Quote from: kgable10 on 01, September, 2021, 10:39:17 PM
OMG I finally killed Deadbeard, gold old Flint finished him off!
Quotethe battle text says my strength returned to normal but it doesn't say anything about my defense. Is that intended?
Quote"Strength" is a broad term that includes all the combat stats, not just Atk. It was just the same in Vanilla. HappyCorrect. Which reminds me, in my Italian version i changed that line to say something like "Buffs removed from X". I had actually forgotten the original line was like this.
BTW it also resets Agi and Resistance increases
QuoteHey there! I have a couple of questions on the mechanics of the mods here.Hi HyperMushrambo!
QuoteWith the changes, Orihalcon can no longer be obtained from the Hammit event? Doesn't that mean there's only like 1 or 2 in the game you can find otherwise then?Correct, due to the Golden rule of equipment, Orihalcon can only be obtained after teleport.
QuoteWas there any change to the god-awful forging system itself?Nope, the mechanics are unchanged.
QuoteDebuffs are now useful against bossesDebuffs are specifically stat debuffs. Status afflictions like stun and poison still won't work cause they'd make most battles trivial.
QuoteYou also mention enemies using Break less oftenThis is true. In many cases i moved Break to an enemy ability slot with a lower chance to be picked at any given turn.
QuoteAlso with the changes Revival items/psynergy in boss fights, especially end-game boss fights became useless.This is all about planning your turns and setups in advance. Know the order enemies are gonna act, plan your characters speed, alter speed with Zephyr/Mud if necessary but the scenario when your fastest character revives and then the enemy acts killing someone unbuffed at half life can and should be avoided. Walls should be a commodity, they are by no means necessary to survive at every turn.
QuoteAm I playing the mod incorrectly, or am I missing something?Probably just a hard time adapting to the increased difficulty? Dunno if you ever played Hard mode TLA before but this mod is slightly harder than that for reference. Other than that i really dunno why someone would fall back to base classes after the midgame, mainly because i abandon them around 4-5 djinn per characters in GS1, in TLA even earlier since you start getting Mercury Djinn before getting Piers. And even in GS1 there are some early game boss fights where certain class setups are basically ingrained in me by now... like Defender Isaac against Saturos for Cutting Edge (and switch back to Knight afterwards) or double Ruffian/Savage against Hydro Statue, spamming Planet Diver like madmen, while Ivan buffs resistance and Mia heals.
Quote from: Caledor on 25, August, 2021, 03:18:14 AMGs1 works perfectly with both patches so I am surprised that it does not work on the 2..Quote from: javi3 on 24, August, 2021, 12:21:12 PMThanks, i remember your posts from back then!
Thank you very much for your time, I have been a fan of your work for 5 years now.QuoteWell, it does not work either, applying the separate patches works, but putting them both not, any idea?That was expected, honestly. there is no reason ips and ups should be incompatible with each other. The problem is that those are diff patches. To simplify, those patches contain the difference between a source and a target. Like if we think that vanilla rom is "5", and the reloaded patched rom is "8", the ips/ups patch created from them will store "3" so when you apply it to the vanilla rom you get 5+3=8. Your translation patch does the same but you aren't applying it to the vanilla 5 anymore, you're applying to the reloaded 8.
Hence things can go bad, in a range that goes from "a few dialogues are now gibberish" to "it won't boot". For that reason, i would also double check GS1.
Quote from: javi3 on 24, August, 2021, 12:21:12 PMThanks, i remember your posts from back then!
Thank you very much for your time, I have been a fan of your work for 5 years now.
QuoteWell, it does not work either, applying the separate patches works, but putting them both not, any idea?That was expected, honestly. there is no reason ips and ups should be incompatible with each other. The problem is that those are diff patches. To simplify, those patches contain the difference between a source and a target. Like if we think that vanilla rom is "5", and the reloaded patched rom is "8", the ips/ups patch created from them will store "3" so when you apply it to the vanilla rom you get 5+3=8. Your translation patch does the same but you aren't applying it to the vanilla 5 anymore, you're applying to the reloaded 8.
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