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Author Topic: Dark Dawn Gameplay/plot discussion (SPOILERS!)  (Read 194032 times)
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« Reply #240 on: 04, January, 2011, 11:31:23 PM »

Ooh, Dullahan is fun! Of course, he is too easy to kill if you Summon rush. Good luck with this battle, and I hope you get the Extra Terrestrial Iris soon (you will understand why I say this if you watch her sumon).

Oh yeah, I have some advice for anyone who can get Zol Stones. Whatever you do, try your best to get the rings, named Zol Rings I think. Agility multiplier 1.8x. I gave one to Karis, and she is definitely one of my best characters because of it. Also, if you use Rief as a healer, you can decide to make him faster if you want.

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« Reply #241 on: 04, January, 2011, 11:39:41 PM »

Actually, I got my first Zol Ring in Passaj. When you get the Alchemy Forge up and running with the Sol Mask, push the conduits into place and talk to the weapon shopkeep. He'll give you a Zol Ring. Then you can save your Quality Zol for the Verdant Sword, Air Bangle (For Karis) and Hover Greaves.

Fun fact: Eoleo + Zol Ring < Matthew + Hover Greaves.
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« Reply #242 on: 05, January, 2011, 12:22:36 AM »

...

Wah! I wish I knew this, thanks for the info. Do you think it is too late to go back (since you technically have access to that town)?

I forget, what does the bangle do again?

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« Reply #243 on: 05, January, 2011, 12:40:22 AM »

Yeah. Once the Grave Eclipse hits, the weapon shop in Passaj is no longer operational. But you can get a Venus Djinni there if you go back during the Grave Eclipse.

The Air Bangle increases Defence by 39, and increases Wind power.
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« Reply #244 on: 05, January, 2011, 12:48:20 AM »

Aw, that stinks. Oh well, thanks for reminding me.

Oh yeah, I remember it now. I think I sold most of mine though. Come to think of it, I have sold almost all of my forged items. I have to say, I like having Obaba make things with her forge. I just wish that Chaucha were in the game.

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« Reply #245 on: 07, January, 2011, 01:50:44 AM »

holy @#$% Dullahan augh

Seriously, I was not prepared for him. Well, it terms of equipment and Djinn layout, yes. But the difficulty difference between him and the other superbosses is staggering! I probably went for over an hour and a half before finally losing the battle. First time my whole party goes down...

And just to clarify, I've gone through this whole game without summon rushing, including the other superbosses and final boss, and while I may do it just to beat him once, I WILL beat him with without at least once.
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« Reply #246 on: 09, January, 2011, 02:36:40 PM »

Wonder why you say he is difficult without summon rush ..... non died in my party when i fought him ... but again i was level 45 and i'm not sure what level is recommended to fight him >< and yes the battle took me forever ><

Oh i fought him using, Matthew, Tyrell, Karis and Eoleo XD
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« Reply #247 on: 09, January, 2011, 02:47:50 PM »

Might have been luck. Charon can sometimes kill characters in one hit.

Yeah, I'm a murderous monster D: ought to watch out...
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« Reply #248 on: 09, January, 2011, 02:51:00 PM »

Quote
Yeah, I'm a murderous monster D: ought to watch out...
Hehehe, now i know why you chose that name ... and like i said you just HAVE to get the Charon Badge  Sweat Drop

And yes maybe ... i will fight him again since I'm on my second play through and i want to do everything i can do in the game ^_^
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« Reply #249 on: 15, January, 2011, 05:33:57 PM »

Final boss is stupidly powerful. It's like: smashes everyone for a billion damage, smashes everyone for a billion damage and insta-kills Eoleo, smashes everyone for a billion damage. Next turn: Reduces incoming damage by 60%, smashes everyone for a billion damage and insta-kills Eoleo, smashes everyone for a billion damage. Next turn: smashes everyone for a billion damage, Djinn Blasts Sveta and smashes everyone for a billion damage.

It's insane.

And no, I'm not joking about the whole "insta-kills Eoleo" thing. He died at least 3 times from Instant Death effects that battle. Oh, and Matthew died once from that as well.

Oh, and on Dullahan things finally went downhill when Charon instant-killed two people with one shot. And then Dullahan used Djinn Storm, so I only had one reviver.
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« Reply #250 on: 15, January, 2011, 10:49:22 PM »

Final boss was the only decent fight on the main storyline. Take away djinn blast and one of its extra turns, and it's more or less what I was hoping for from standard bosses. I liked that its summon-type move (shadow clash/shadow crash) was actually sort of a breather move, compared to retribution (which killed rief - and only rief - three times in my fight with it), or djinn blast (hit karis early on and hit tyrell near the end). But as long as you keep yourself buffed, it's actually not too hard. Truth is, it was the only boss in the game that made me afraid that I would run out of PP - I had like 60 left on tyrell and 80-90 on karis when the fight ended (rief had 13 pp regen, so he was fine, and the only psynergy I used with matt was revive). It's also the only boss to have survived through four summons; I was quite pleased on the final turn when it survived my boreas summon (my fourth summon that fight) and let me finish it off with judgment. I actually thought it could've been a little harder, but looking at everything else, it's really the only storyline boss they did right. Well, they didn't do it completely right... having the ability to heal and mess with your items and djinn between the two fights was kinda dumb.

Of course, it's not like there were even that many bosses in the game, anyway.

Tutorial boss (whatever its name was) -> dim dragon -> dim dragon plus (optional) -> trio of tuaparang -> kaocho generals -> sand prince -> ice queen -> sludge -> roc -> duo -> duo+monster -> final boss

So there's 11 storyline bosses (not including the dim dragon plus), which... I guess when you think about it isn't so bad, but most of the battles weren't memorable or impressive at all. I actually forgot all about the kaocho generals, sludge, and the roc until I went to go make this list, and I nearly forgot the trio of tuaparang soldiers you had to fight near the beginning. I probably wouldn't have even remembered the ice queen+sand prince if it weren't for the ice queen randomly landing some psynergy on me that dealt a ton of damage, but I killed her off the very next turn and I remember thinking that if she had lived a little longer, it might've been a halfway decent fight. The dim dragon wasn't difficult by any means, but it was memorable if only because it was so silly. Sludge was just pathetic, and I was expecting the roc to put up a much better fight than it did. Also, I think I would've been a lot more impressed by the duo had the second fight with them been the first, instead. In the first fight, they rely too much on their items instead of their EPAs, which made them a joke. Well, they still used too many items in the second fight, too (the second to last boss using illusion perfume... what?), but they seemed to use their EPAs more.

Really, with fights like those, I was at least expecting for there to be a hard mode after beating the game, that might make the battles somewhat worthwhile... well, I do still have the bonus bosses to look forward to.

Quote from: Dark Griever
Wonder why you say he is difficult without summon rush ..... non died in my party when i fought him ... but again i was level 45 and i'm not sure what level is recommended to fight him >< and yes the battle took me forever ><
...how did you manage to stay so low? Did you take him on before the final boss and any of the other bonus bosses? I can't imagine how you stayed that low for him otherwise. Like, I seriously had trouble not gaining levels like crazy in this game. The dark monsters (and in the final area, the tua warriors) give so much experience, it's hard to not gain levels rapidly. Even the non-dark monsters on some of the islands gave ridiculous amounts of experience. I started spamming avoid when I hit lv40 or so, and I still ended up getting to lv47 for the final boss (lv48 after the final boss).

---

I diss-like the game because:
#1. bad story line.
#2. Bad Character choice and personality.
#3. bad level/story design (Most of the time it is unclear what to do)
Uh... the storyline this time was actually very good imo. I give it an A-, and it only gets that low because they just did a massive info dump with himi at the end, and himi had absolutely zero characterization other than as a vessel to tell you where to go.

Most of the characters were fairly well-done imo, although at some points I thought they were characterized kinda strangely. Like, in the beginning, we're told that karis is clever, but she never really shows it until about halfway through the game. I initially found tyrell kinda annoying the way he couldn't restrain himself a lot of the time in the beginning, but over time he grew as a character. Rief... didn't really leave much of an impression on me either way, but he also developed more of a personality over time. Then amiti starts off awesome, but he quickly falls when you encounter briggs... he gets a bit better after he learns that not everything is black and white, though it's not enough to raise him back up to where he once was. Svetta was awesome from the beginning, and I don't know how anyone could say she was anything other than awesome for the entirety of the game. Eoleo is eoleo - his personality fit him nicely, I thought. Then himi... I think she got maybe three lines of dialogue throughout the whole story that weren't part of an info dump. Of all the characters in the game (both the PCs and the NPCs), the only one that I thought was truly atrocious was himi. The others were all either on par or above. There might've been a couple NPCs that could've received some better characterization, too, but I don't recall them off the top of my head, so it obviously wasn't enough to reduce the enjoyment of the story. Truly, the storytelling in dark dawn is far above and beyond what the first two games provided.

I thought it was very clear where to go most of the time. The first time I felt like I even had a choice about where to go was when I got to morgal after crossing craggy peak, but even then, you can't actually do anything, and where you need to go is still very straightforward. Once you get the ship, you have a fair amount of freedom about where to go, but you should still be able to find where to go very very easily. Warrior's hill is right by where you exit, so it should be the first place you end up exploring. From there, you only have a couple options on where to sail to, and it shouldn't take long to figure out that there's something at yamata. The town by warrior's hill, yamata, champa, and tonfon are the only towns/cities you can even get to from the eastern sea, and finding warrior's hill and finding yamata are all you have to do to be told exactly what you need to know in order to progress the storyline.

Quote
#4. so many questions left unanswered (and some will never be answered (like wtf are the beast men a different color at the end????))
#7. How could they put such a strong cliff hanger!!!
The unanswered questions means that there will be a second game. They put such a strong cliffhanger because they wanted for there to be anticipation for the next game; there should be no doubt in anyone's minds that there will be a sequel to dark dawn. Just be glad that we're getting a sequel. Also, the beastmen changed color because of the power of the apollo lens: the light psynergy permeated their bodies and empowered them. If you would just go talk to people around town, you would be able to figure that much out with ease.

Quote
#5. to many people die with in an hour of game play.
What. You're complaining that people die? Really? It took some serious balls to do what they did, and I commend them for it. They unleashed a horrible terror upon the world, and these are the consequences of it. If no one died, there wouldn't be any meaning behind it. The grave eclipse killed scores of people. It is an evil power. Taking that leap and actually killing off characters firmly places GSDD in the gray area. The first two games could've been seen as being much closer to the light end of the light vs dark spectrum, but GSDD crosses over to the darker side of storytelling when the eclipse happens. It's not as dark as some stories, and I still think it's merely in a gray area now, which is a good place for it and is where it will most likely stay. To bring this back around to your complaint, you can't maintain a gray area unless you cross into the darkness sometimes, and that's precisely what happened when the eclipse hit. Death is a natural consequence of the events in the game. Go play pokemon if you want a game where no one ever dies.

Quote
#6. wtf is with the psyenergy changes (names and how you can learn them)
I wasn't a huge fan of the change of frost to cold snap, either, but it makes sense given the plot. Actually, my biggest complaint in regard to cold snap is that the sound it makes when the ice pillar forms is no where near as satisfying as frost was. The only other psynergy that got a name change to my knowledge is blast -> starblast, which really... it needed to be done. Having two different blast psynergies that are parts of different lines was just a bad design decision in the first place, so I fail to see how that could be considered anything other than an improvement.

Quote
#8. WHY IS THE FINAL BOSS NOT A DRAGON (DRAGONS ARE BAD @#$ (AND YOU CAN'T BEAT BAD @#$)
I was a bit surprised that the final boss wasn't a dragon, myself, but hey, at least we got a chimaera. Tbh, I think I would've been disappointed either way - if the final boss was or was not a dragon. On the one hand, it's tradition, but on the other... dragons get old after a while. So in light of that, I'm quite fine with the final boss they chose.

Quote
but really this game need more dragons (ooo they need a party member that is part dragon!)

DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS
WE NEEDZ MORE OF THEMZ!!!!
Dumbass.
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Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
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[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
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[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #251 on: 15, January, 2011, 11:36:06 PM »

The Mountain Roc could've been a seriously amazing boss. The graphics are amazing, its attacks are badass, and that good fun stuff. The thing that wrecked it? Not enough turns. Give that boss 1 more turn and more HP, and it would be the most awesome boss in the game. Oh, and replace Tempest with Tornado, so it can't instant-death the party with two Tempests in a row.

Another thing I'm unhappy with? The item selection in the game. The Khiren water and ginseng added some nice touches, but Kaocho should've sold gunpowder bombs in their item shop. Otherwise, we have the fridge logic of "How do those two generals get them if they aren't sold anywhere? And why can't you find them randomly hidden in the castle?" Access to firecrackers at some point would've been nice as well.

Honestly? Final boss was what I wanted to see out of those two Generals. Only with less HP and fewer turns. The generals could've also been a really fun fight, if only they'd been faster, had higher Defence and stronger attacks. And replace those dumb rice rations and plump dumplings with vials, or maybe potions.
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« Reply #252 on: 20, January, 2011, 03:00:09 AM »

Wow.

I just realized.

The copy of the game that I have?

It's glitched.

Bad.

I fought the last boss almost 20 times in a row, dying every time, even though I trained on the guys that spawn in the Apollo Sanctum everytime I died until I was level 70.  More on that in a moment.  First, let me tell you about this boss...

The first fight was insanely easy.  I lost my first party due to poor planning, but I pulled it off with a summon rush by the second party.  Insta-kill.

The second fight started off good, summon rush of Eclipse four times.  Did over 1.5k damage each time.  Pretty good right?  Then, out of NO-WHERE, he uses that Shadow Clash thing.  Insta-kills my WHOLE F**KING PARTY.  I was at full health.  I was stunned.  So, I shut it off, re-loaded, and trained for 10 levels on the Sanctum's spawns.  Fought it again, killing the first fight in 5 turns clean.  Second fight: first turn, insta-killed my whole first party.  Again.  I shut it off AGAIN.  Re-loaded.  Trained for 20 LEVELS, trying after every 3 levels.  I am now level 70, average.  He still insta-kills me with Shadow Clash in the first two turns.  I looked up his stats online.  He should have DIED with my summon rushes that I did, what with hitting him with an Eclipse x4 rush, followed by a 2-summon rush of Charon and Iris.  He insta-kills my second party.  My first party then gets picked off one-by-one by NORMAL ATTACKS.  He used BASIC MELEE attacks to INSTA-KILL each party member.  And that's not the strangest part.  I found out that there's a pattern that he follows

- Basic melee in the first round, no matter what, (with no insta-kill, mind you).

- Insta-kill with Shadow Clash, second round, without fail.

- Going last on the third round, he'll insta-kill my whole party -- he always goes last from this point on.

- He then picks off my Iris-revived first party with melee attacks in the fourth and fifth rounds, randomly selecting the order in which he attacks.

Uh...  Wow?

I sold it to a friend who collects glitchy carts for every platform for $200.  But I'm still wierded out by it.

By the way, about the leveling on the spawns in the Sanctum...  Is it that broken for you guys?  I leveled up at least once per character on two of the guys.  Over 20k EXP per fight.  I went from level 45 to level 70 in an hour.

.  .  .

Uh, okay?

Anyway, what do you guys know about this?  Have any of you experienced glitches?

- 2br02b
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« Reply #253 on: 20, January, 2011, 06:18:25 AM »

That's really weird, I found the last boss the only challenging fight through out the game.
Hopefully he's not one of those bosses that level up when you level up, if you catch my drift.
I really can't help you much more than this, sorry.  Sad

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« Reply #254 on: 20, January, 2011, 07:22:46 AM »

That sounds bizzare...
As for the Tua warriors though, not sure about 20k exp but they do give a CRAPLOAD of experience normally.
I gained 10 or so levels just making my way to the final boss!
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« Reply #255 on: 20, January, 2011, 11:43:50 AM »

Quote
By the way, about the leveling on the spawns in the Sanctum...  Is it that broken for you guys?  I leveled up at least once per character on two of the guys.  Over 20k EXP per fight.  I went from level 45 to level 70 in an hour.

I think that was intentional, as you get over 10k for each individual Tua Warrior, and they never show up alone. In fact, this is even worse than Crossbone Isle (where the strongest random monster in the game gives you the same amount as a single Tua Warrior, but is actually strong). On the positive side, it took a few hours for my team to level from 50 to 99 while fighting them.
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« Reply #256 on: 22, January, 2011, 06:07:22 AM »

So I have now beaten dark dawn in its entirety. Dullahan was the same as always. I went in with the only strategy I used being "go into the fight with all djinn on standby then spam summons until one of you die." Needless to say, it worked. No crucible. No djinn storm. No charon. I'll probably rematch him with a proper strategy at some later date, but right now I'm just kinda underwhelmed. At least the ancient devil was fun (that's its real name btw).

And actually, great dragons only give around 11k. Tua warriors give 13-14k each. Those are both without djinn killing.
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Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #257 on: 22, January, 2011, 06:58:45 AM »

@Spirit of the Dawn: Shadow Clash or Retribution? Shadow Clash is that summon-type move he has, where he poofs upwards and then beams of darkness rain from the sky. Retribution is the massive sword swing that deals instant death on occasion. Shadow Clash should be doing 350+ damage. Retribution should be hitting 100+ or causing instant death.

@leaf: Yeah, Dullahan always uses Element Swap before using Charon or Crucible; he'll use Crucible if you have Djinn on standby, or Charon if you don't.
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« Reply #258 on: 24, January, 2011, 03:07:42 PM »

Wow.

I just realized.

The copy of the game that I have?

It's glitched.

Bad.

I fought the last boss almost 20 times in a row, dying every time, even though I trained on the guys that spawn in the Apollo Sanctum everytime I died until I was level 70.  More on that in a moment.  First, let me tell you about this boss...

The first fight was insanely easy.  I lost my first party due to poor planning, but I pulled it off with a summon rush by the second party.  Insta-kill.

The second fight started off good, summon rush of Eclipse four times.  Did over 1.5k damage each time.  Pretty good right?  Then, out of NO-WHERE, he uses that Shadow Clash thing.  Insta-kills my WHOLE F**KING PARTY.  I was at full health.  I was stunned.  So, I shut it off, re-loaded, and trained for 10 levels on the Sanctum's spawns.  Fought it again, killing the first fight in 5 turns clean.  Second fight: first turn, insta-killed my whole first party.  Again.  I shut it off AGAIN.  Re-loaded.  Trained for 20 LEVELS, trying after every 3 levels.  I am now level 70, average.  He still insta-kills me with Shadow Clash in the first two turns.  I looked up his stats online.  He should have DIED with my summon rushes that I did, what with hitting him with an Eclipse x4 rush, followed by a 2-summon rush of Charon and Iris.  He insta-kills my second party.  My first party then gets picked off one-by-one by NORMAL ATTACKS.  He used BASIC MELEE attacks to INSTA-KILL each party member.  And that's not the strangest part.  I found out that there's a pattern that he follows

- Basic melee in the first round, no matter what, (with no insta-kill, mind you).

- Insta-kill with Shadow Clash, second round, without fail.

- Going last on the third round, he'll insta-kill my whole party -- he always goes last from this point on.

- He then picks off my Iris-revived first party with melee attacks in the fourth and fifth rounds, randomly selecting the order in which he attacks.

Uh...  Wow?

I sold it to a friend who collects glitchy carts for every platform for $200.  But I'm still wierded out by it.

By the way, about the leveling on the spawns in the Sanctum...  Is it that broken for you guys?  I leveled up at least once per character on two of the guys.  Over 20k EXP per fight.  I went from level 45 to level 70 in an hour.

.  .  .

Uh, okay?

Anyway, what do you guys know about this?  Have any of you experienced glitches?

- 2br02b
That's what you get for summon rushing.  That is exactly why people say do not do it.  It's not a glitch.  You weakened the HELL out of your characters by doing that, and yes, he could probably one shot you since his retribution skill has a chance to insta-kill you.  Without the djinn to boost your luck, getting wtfpwned is a very large possibility.  Shadow Clash is also a summon-type deal, dealing base + HP Percentile damage.  Glitch?  No.  Bad strategy?  Yes.

The game becomes quite hard when you unset all your djinn.  My current inepts run is showing me this - the three scouts in the tunnel before you get Rief game me loads of trouble.  Late game bosses are going to be crazy hard.  That +40% to all stats and +80% to HP goes a long way.  And that's to say nothing about the tri-element classes, which have even better stats you'd be missing out on.
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« Reply #259 on: 24, January, 2011, 04:39:37 PM »

well i think it could still be a glitch because i set all my djinn for both party's and beat all the bosses in the game with summon rushing at level 47! i beat the final boss last at 47 all a round with:

first party eclipse, eclipse, crystal dragon, crystal dragon. boss normal attacks.
next turn,
first party all normal attacks. boss kills two members.
next turn,
party uses normal attacks. boss wipes them out.
party swap
next turn,
second party eclipse, eclipse, crystal dragon, crystal dragon. boss normal boss dies.

also in all the turns he never healed.

i tryed this two times the same way first time it failed because he healed but the second time he never healed.
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