Role's Editor Templates

[Rolina]

Since I can't seem to bring myself to stay away from this place, I figure I'll stay away from the social stuff and stay strictly business.  If you're the kind of forum goer that'd rather goof off and fool around rather than try to actually build a working hack, then these are probably not for you.

All of my templates utilize updates from Dark Dawn, such as Blast (nova) → Starburst, and have tweaked base element levels so that elemental 'weaknesses' in base classes make sense.  Basically:

Element → 54
Symbiote → 3
Neutral → 2
Opposed → 1 (weakness)

Nope!  Doing that breaks the patches!  They're staying default.  Word of warning:  By changing any of the element values, you break the patch.  Don't.

They also will utilize placeholder names.  The place holder names are expected to be renamed as the user sees fit, so you're not expected to use character names like Blast or Shock, nor Sto Ven 2 or Air Wat Ven 1 for classes.  The characters themselves have also been zeroed out, save for the stat targets.



Omni Element Class Template - this is a template which zeroes out the classes for you to fill out for your personal hack.  Name the characters, their classes, give them skills and stat modifiers to fill it out.  This covers two teams, with an additional Tri-Hybrid class for each.  This template assumes that you are using characters from all four elements.  Items are left in tact.  Spells are left intact.  Djinn and Summons are left in tact.  Enemies are left in tact.





Update: Fixed Air Mar 1's element level.



If you find an error in any of my templates, please let me know immediately so I can fix and update it.

[Awec]

Just a tip, intact, in the sense (I assume) you're using it in, is one word. In tact means something completely different, and I would assume you did not mean that because it wouldn't make sense in the context.

Also, save for the Dark Dawn renames (which wouldn't take long to do anyway) and setting up the classes for the 2nd team, what's the actual point of this?
It actually seems a lot easier to edit the existing data than starting from scratch, in my view, because there may be psynergy that you want to keep for some characters and the levels at which you learn the psynergy would give you an idea of when your new psynergy could be learned.

[Hoopa]

Well I don't know what other people think, but this really useful! I've been meaning to make something like this for myself, but never really got around to it. Thanks for sharing!

[Rolina]

Just a tip, intact, in the sense (I assume) you're using it in, is one word. In tact means something completely different, and I would assume you did not mean that because it wouldn't make sense in the context.

Also, save for the Dark Dawn renames (which wouldn't take long to do anyway) and setting up the classes for the 2nd team, what's the actual point of this?
It actually seems a lot easier to edit the existing data than starting from scratch, in my view, because there may be psynergy that you want to keep for some characters and the levels at which you learn the psynergy would give you an idea of when your new psynergy could be learned.

If you're the kind of forum goer that'd rather goof off and fool around rather than try to actually build a working hack, then these are probably not for you.

@Whiz:  Aye, that's why I'm doing it.  I'm working on making one for Spells/Skills right now.  It should be much more organized, and have room to compensate for additional spell ideas you come up with.

[Kain]

what's the actual point of this?

You say tomato, I say projectile.  People learn things at different rates, as such this template is a welcome sight for those who want to go about quick editing.  While you have your preferred method of dealing with everything individually, others feel that this makes the process go faster for them since it may handle a majority of what they are going to mess around with.  After all, what kind of editor would it be if you didn't experiment around with stuff?

[Hoopa]

Sweet. Can't wait for it.

I have a few things to say though. First of all, the template is meant just as that, and not all classes are set up right? Secondly, Air Mars 1 has 6 venus. That's it.

[Rolina]

Aye, none of the classes are set up - you'll need to go in and set them up yourself.  It helps to have a second editor open with an unchanged base for reference.

Thanks for finding the error, going to fix it now.

[Rolina]

Kide found out why the patch was acting up - it works perfectly now, so get it another shot!

[Kide]

If you want I could try to look into a way to make your original idea works. Maybe it wouldn't be so hard after all.

You know, I think I'll do this anyway.

[Rolina]

Well, the goal is actually to have it so that this ONLY applies changes to the class section.  The problem is, right now patches are global - we'll need Atrius to come out with a tool that lets us port data from a file directly into that specific section - so that way, the Class patches only affect classes, the ability patches only affect the abilities, the item patches only affect items, etc.  I'm hoping that we can have it set up so that you can apply a template at any point in your hack, without having to just start with the template.

That being said, a template from you set up that way would be really, REALLY nice.  I'd love to host it here.  In fact, after checking it out, it might be a good idea to make a "class building guidelines" thread, so we can explain how to do both versions in case they wanna do it from scratch.  I figure if I see it myself, the setup you're suggesting, I'll understand it a lot more than the thrown together version you presented earlier, since it should be organized and easier to understand.

I'm also working on a 4 Member Separation patch, as well as well as a 4 Member, 10 Djinn patch (I don't think there's enough room for an 8 member 10 djinn patch, though).

[Kide]

I got it to work, but first I'll tell some differences regarding how some classes used to work.

You know how when you set 1 Mercury and 1 Mars Djinni to Isacc he becomes a Swordsman, right? Well, this does not happen anymore. Since his Mars level is now higher than his Mercury's, he becomes a Brute. At least for me, this is actually a good thing, don't know how you feel about it.

Now, as far as organizing the whole thing goes, I had to make some changes, mainly because I needed to add 8 more classes (one Tier 1 of each 3-tier tri-element classes, like Ninja and Medium, and for both parties), so you can't space each class line with a blank slot like you have done.

[spoiler= sample]

Classes in green use type 3, yellow type 5, and red type 4. Notice how I had to intercalate two lines of classes, as they would have conflicted otherwise. Look how classes 87 and 92 are the exact same classes with the exception of class type (disregard the unknown value).[/spoiler]

[spoiler= it works]

I don't know if you remember, but with your previous template it was not possible to any adept be a Templar. And look at Mars, being the actual second resistance.
[/spoiler]

[Rolina]

In my experience, the top tier usually works, it's the first and second tiers that act up.  I like that you can pull it off, but the way it's organized... that is quite a bit unorthodox, but least you can pull it off.  Where's the 2nd Tier classes for the Tri-Opp and Tri-Adj classes, by the way?  Are they located elsewhere, Wait, so doing it that way requires you to make duplicate classes?  Am I seeing that right?

[Kide]

In the first screenshot you can see all tri-element classes avaiable to Isaac and Garet.

In my experience, the top tier usually works

That's right, if you look again you'll see Roc Fla Mer 3 appears just once and its type is 3, as originally intended.

Wait, so doing it that way requires you to make duplicate classes?

Yes. The reason for this is to assure you'll be gettin, for example, the Dragoon class when you set 3 Mercury & 3 Mars Djinn (Class 92) as well as 4 Mercury & 3 Mars Djinn (Class 87). If #87 didn't exist you would be getting Roc Mer 3 (Cavalier). If #92 didn't exist you would be gettin Roc Fla Sym 2 (Ruffian).

[Rolina]

Huh... so it's actually not very efficient, is it?

What if we were to change elemental position?  Basically, instead of it being:

0 - Venus
1 - Mercury
2 - Mars
3 - Jupiter

we were to change it to

0 - Venus
1 - Mars
2 - Jupiter
3 - Mercury?

As in, not change the values themselves, but rather how we read said values?  This way, we'd not have to do all that rearranging, we'd just have to change what spells reference which value.  The only hiccup this could really come across is the changing of symbiotic values, I think... So instead of values 0 and 2 having symbiotic class progression, it'd be values 0 and 1.  Would that be doable, or would we come into similar problems?

Keep in mind, the values won't actually be changed per se - we'd just be using Mercury's value to represent fire, instead of water, for example.  It'd be more visual than anything.

In other news, GOD I love Golden Sun's element system.  There are no real opposites as far as the code is concerned, power and resistance are independent values! ♥  It's because of that that this is even possible...

[Mion Sonozaki]

Even I use the template. Kudos!

[Kide]

About efficiency... the thing works exactly as the original (except for the previously mentioned Brute/Swordsman and similar priority changing, which does make sense now). If organization is your main concern... maybe now I might convince you (or make you disapprove it completely).

[spoiler= party 1 class list and some explanation]

The method I found to be the best was to put all base clases first, then all 2-element classes, and finally all 3-element classes. As you can see, it all goes the same until slot 36, where I took out those 3-elementals and brought up all 2-elementals. If I had more space I would have separated some of the 3-elementals a bit better, as in slots 88-89 and 95-96. Does this really look that bad to you?[/spoiler]


Now, about your suggestion... I don't know if I got it right, but if it is what I'm thinking it is, then it could work quite well. However, I believe some other stuff would have to be changed as well (the infamous class type table comes to mind).

You mean something like this, right?

Character 0's elemental level is  54  3  1  2
I keep those numbers intact, and somehow change the order elements are read.
So in his case they would look like  54  3  1  2
And that would apply to all characters.

Is this right?

Also, I'd like to suggest two other alternatives to this. The first one would give the best results, but it would be the hardest to do, which is to "simply" change the formula to Elemental Power & Resistance.

The other suggestion is completely possible to be done at this time, but would need you to change the class requirements a bit. This is mainly for tri-element classes organization. The idea here is to swap Djinn requirements.

For example, Isaac's Ninja class would no longer need  3  3, but  3  3. No diferences here. But Master Isaac would need  5  4 now. Samurai and Ronin would change accordingly. This is just an example though, it's not that these classes were being used in the first place.

[Rolina]

My issue isn't so much order, but the disjointed nature of the tri-element classes.  Could be confusing to some people.

@My suggestion:  Ish.  In terms of the code, nothing's changed, but in terms of how we read it, it has.  We could even have an option added to the editor to reflect it.  The only thing that'd change is that you'd have to change which element would have symbiotic class progression, as it'd now be reading that the 6 tier class is "Venus and Jupiter", instead of "Venus and Mars".  So long as we can simply swap the element levels for the classes and call it a day, it should be alright, I'd hope.

I do disapprove of changing elemental requirements, however - especially for GS style hacks.  And I'd rather not have to screw with the code to get the results.

[Durza]

Apologies for the necropost, but I just finished doing some classes with the template, but when I went to have a look at the actual character stats, the editor died. Tested it on an unchanged version as well.

[Rolina]

Did it leave an error message?  Did you use a clean rom to patch?  Also, how long has it been since a reboot of your computer?  Can you get someone else to duplicate the results?  If you can get someone to duplicate the results, I'll try and figure out what's causing it.

[Durza]

The message is

ERROR in
action number 1
of Other Event: User Defined 1
for object obj_eParty:

Error reading byte.

First time it happened I was using Sala's five class item patch, but the second one was totally unedited. I'll try it on another computer once I get home tomorrow.