Golden Sun Hacking Community
January 17, 2018, 01:20:17 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home   Forum   DC Wiki Help Search Calendar Downloads Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Lessons we've learned from Dark Dawn  (Read 19534 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
zman9000
Golden sun fan/Map Builder
Luna Clan

Lord Zed

Excellent Member
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
I am: A guy who just really likes golden sun
Posts: 893

« Reply #60 on: June 10, 2011, 09:49:22 AM »

yeah well One lessen to learn from golden sun DD would be:
Don't say something will happan only if this other thing happans, and still have the thing happen with out the other thing happaning first.

Edit: wow that looks confusing now...
Logged

Check my youtube channel out for lots of cool gaming related videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/xXzman9000Xx
View Profile
Awec
Great Lord of Everything Good And Not Already Owned By Anyone

I'm just awesome!

Regular Member
**

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 139

« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2011, 10:58:35 AM »

yeah well One lessen to learn from golden sun DD would be:
Don't say something will happan only if this other thing happans, and still have the thing happen with out the other thing happaning first.

Edit: wow that looks confusing now...

I think I understand what you're getting at but I can't remember any examples in DD.
Logged

I. Am. A. Spoon.
Yes, a spoon that is awesome that is a Jupiter adept that is one of the Anemos that lives on the freaking moon.
What of it?
View Profile
Kai Hong
Mercury Clan

Regular Member
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Clan Position: Master Cleric of Mercury
Posts: 70

« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2011, 08:27:35 PM »

Maybe the vortexes were spread out to begin with, then they made their way towards Mt. Aleph?
Logged

WARNING! IT IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO READ THIS WARNING! NOW YOU WILL DIE...eventually.
View Profile
Rolina
The Fulminous Witch
Jupiter Clan

Template maker turned lurker

Alchemist
*

Coins: 10
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
I am: wondering if we can get our clan position changed...
Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
Posts: 6051

« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2011, 03:31:26 AM »

STOP.

We have a thread for theorycrafting.  Let's get back on topic before we all derail it again.
Logged

View Profile WWW

Regular Member
**

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 195

« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2011, 04:01:47 AM »

Firstly: HIGHER DIFFICULTY! All the bosses minus the three soldiers fought at the start of the game are a joke! Find a way to make summon rushes less efficient on bosses, and give them more health!

They need to actual develop characters more.

And Matthew was annoying with the emoticon system since you didn't know what he says, Tyrell was captain obvious (Though his goofy moments were nice), Karis was an annoying nag without much variety to her character, Rief is irrelevant to the plot and a comploete pussy, Amiti is too predictable and doesn't contribute to conversations other than stating how he agrees with something, Sveta didn't have enough screentime (She was one of the coolest characters! Why not develop her more to make us care about her more in the finale?!), Eoleo REALLY didn't have enough screen time, and Himi was... Yeah..


We need a faster ship!

We need more explorability! Anyone remember how cool it was to explore all the dungeons and towns in TLA to figure out where to go and wht to do next?

We need bigger dungeons! Some of them are only two rooms big in dark dawn! Seriously!? Anyone remember how awesome the rocks were in Golden Sun TLA? Why is none of that here!? And the final dungeon of the game was just a stupid mountain pass!? Come on! Yes, it had the epic music, but why couldn't we have the Endless Wall be the dungeon itself as opposed to being part of the overworld?! They could have had really cool puzzles similar to Lost Woods from Zelda to capture the "Endless Fall" feeling. It would have been awesome!

We need less side-tracking! The whole game is that you're trying to explore sol sanctum, but Tyrell broke the Silverwing, and you need to get a new wing to fix it. So you become sealed out of a cave by rocks you couldn't simply move for some reason with psynergy. To get around this, you have to get involved with an all out war just to get two stupid masks that would have allowed you to cross a stupid mountain. So now you're in furry village but Kraden STILL isn't there! So instead you have to rescue Eoleo. But to do that, you have to gather a number of stupid musicians across the continent which forces you to become involved with the affairs of Kolima and save the village. Fair enough. You go and beat up a bird to steal its feather. But now you're told you have to go through this HUGEASS underground maze to save Eoleo. So what do you go through just to save him? YOU UNLEASH THE FREAKING APOCALYPSE!

Not only that, but the premise of the game itself is kinda dumb. You're trying to get a stupid feather. And that dragged out WAAAY too long. And the cause of it is because a stupid machine broke which could have been avoided had Tyrell not acted like a dumbass flying it. In TLA you were trying to get a boat because a  HUGE TIDAL WAVE struck and damaged the entire freaking continent! And that only drags on for half the game. But here.. You're getting a feather for 3/4 of the game, and in doing so you get side tracked to save a prisoner, which causes the apocalypse... TLA's plot is waaaay better!!
Logged
View Profile
JamietheFlameUser
Diamond Pokémon
Mars Clan

Does this look like the face of mercy?

Prodigy
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
I am: Poke poke poke poke... I can't stop it...
Posts: 2633

« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2011, 03:44:16 PM »

More HP isn't really the issue. The issue is more Attack, higher level Psynergy, and higher Defence stat.

Seriously? The Mountain Roc should have been hitting you with Grand Gaia and Tempest in between its crushing stomp or whatever and Upward Blast. It should have been healing itself with Vital Boon! Its Stone form should have been a PERMANENT 70% DAMAGE REDUCTION BARRIER. It needed about 50 to 100 more Defence! In the end, I left the Roc in Stone form for the rest of the fight simply because it was too easy otherwise. I liked the part where Psynergy was actually dealing proportionately high damage.

The Djinn should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be using Psynergy that's one stage higher than what you have access to at the time. Only at the ENDGAME should the Djinn end up at your level in terms of power, simply because there's nothing stronger out there. They're made of PURE ELEMENTAL ENERGY, don'tcha know, so the fact that they never throw anything stronger than a Mother Gaia at you is just plain sad.

The two Kaocho generals need much higher Defence, higher Attack, and their special moves need to be stronger. The "[enemy] strikes with pure hatred!" move would have been SERIOUSLY cool, if only it did a lot more damage.

The emote system was annoying simply due to the lack of options. There were tons of times where I would've liked to use  Exclamation  or  Question  emotes, as well as  Sweat Drop  and  Um.... And there were lots of times where I would've LOVED to be able to choose between  Irate and Fury, rather than having both of them stuffed into one.
Logged

:P

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

Spoiler for epic mindscrew:
View Profile
Novice Member
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 21

« Reply #66 on: July 30, 2011, 03:57:50 PM »

I did not come very often, but many complain to dark dawn.


First : no boss except last one attack two times in a row.  I mean come on, make them all weak. And they are all weak, I was excepting Roc to be harder.

Second : Stop giving us that much exp in a single battle, I mean 1000 exp, in some battle at start of the game WTF ?

Make it easy
Logged
View Profile
JamietheFlameUser
Diamond Pokémon
Mars Clan

Does this look like the face of mercy?

Prodigy
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
I am: Poke poke poke poke... I can't stop it...
Posts: 2633

« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2012, 02:26:13 AM »

Actually, there are numerous reasons why the game is too easy, and they aren't all to do with bosses having bad stats:

The guys at Camelot did their best to answer the fans' complaints. The problem is, they took this too far. Let's take a look:

1. The fandom complained about the high encounter rate. Camelot answered. They did indeed reduce the encounter rate. But they didn't strengthen the encounters to make up for it. They DID, however, increase the amount of EXP given. This would be mostly fine, were it not for...

2. They allowed all combat animations to be sped up by holding the B button. This results in people not running from encounters that they would have run from in GS1 or GS2.

3. They increased PP regen rates, resulting in regular encounters becoming too easy to clear by spamming area Psynergy on them. This also results in regular encounters causing no lasting damage to the party, because this, combined with the reduced encounter rate, makes healing Psynergy practically free.

4. They introduced a grinding-based unleash mechanic, causing players to willingly fight battles they would otherwise run from.

5. The failure rate for fleeing from encounters has been increased. And since most players don't bother trying to flee more than once before just giving up and frying foes, this practically amounts to forced level-ups.



As it turns out, the Sand Prince is quite a nasty boss when the party is level 13. Eruption hits for 75% of any given character's max HP, and hits for roughly 2/3rds of the max HP of adjacent characters. His normal attack command also does more than that of the player characters. If Karis didn't get Fresh Breeze at tier 1 of base class, this would be a legitimately challenging fight.


The Kaocho generals can be a legitimate threat at level 13, as well. Ku-Embra's "strike with pure hatred" does about 90 damage to a single target, though Zealous Fury and Cyclone Slash are still pretty weak. The firecrackers are something to be concerned about, though, doing 70-85 damage to three party members. Ku-Tsung's Dragon Spark is very dangerous at this point in time, hitting the centre target for 85 damage and adjacent targets for 70+ each. Combined with inspiring speech and Cyclone Slash, this can be enough to KO a party member, and a Dragon Spark/firecracker combo can be lethal to up to three characters. Ku-Embra's inspiring speech can make the two very dangerous, boosting the damage dealt by strike with pure hatred and Dragon Spark to very dangerous levels. The fireworks are normally just a waste of an action, but I did get unlucky enough to have them disable Matthew's Flower when I needed area healing. Once again, Karis's base class breaks this fight badly, as does Tyrell's new Arid Scorch psynergy.


Ice Queen was a pain in the neck at level 15. She has a tendency to target characters weak to Mercury with Ice Missile, which in my case was Karis. This leaves Karis at only 45 HP, perfectly open for her to KO over the next few rounds if not healed quickly. It also does about 165 damage to Matthew, who was the adjacent party member. It's really effective for tying up all of my attackers but Tyrell. Unfortunately, Tyrell is the one she'll really be wishing she could tie up, as Arid Scorch does over 165 damage to her and really breaks the game at this point. The Ice Queen also likes to hit Amiti and Tyrell with Frostbite, doing fairly heavy damage to them too. The fight would be more difficult if Karis was at the centre of the party, rather than off to one side, as this would mean three characters would be hit, rather than two. On the other hand, the fight could have been potentially made easier by having Karis in her base class. (Or her HP could have been low enough for Ice Missile to OHKO. Either way.) The real problem with this boss fight is that she uses her regular attack too often, and her attack stat is too low. Icy Kiss can OHKO, but if that fails, its damage is pretty lame.


Djinn are still consistently very easy, despite being fairly challenging foes in GS1 and GS2.
Logged

:P

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

Spoiler for epic mindscrew:
View Profile

Regular Member
**

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 119

« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2012, 03:57:24 AM »

Actually, there are numerous reasons why the game is too easy, and they aren't all to do with bosses having bad stats:

The guys at Camelot did their best to answer the fans' complaints. The problem is, they took this too far. Let's take a look:

1. The fandom complained about the high encounter rate. Camelot answered. They did indeed reduce the encounter rate. But they didn't strengthen the encounters to make up for it. They DID, however, increase the amount of EXP given. This would be mostly fine, were it not for...

2. They allowed all combat animations to be sped up by holding the B button. This results in people not running from encounters that they would have run from in GS1 or GS2.

3. They increased PP regen rates, resulting in regular encounters becoming too easy to clear by spamming area Psynergy on them. This also results in regular encounters causing no lasting damage to the party, because this, combined with the reduced encounter rate, makes healing Psynergy practically free.

4. They introduced a grinding-based unleash mechanic, causing players to willingly fight battles they would otherwise run from.

5. The failure rate for fleeing from encounters has been increased. And since most players don't bother trying to flee more than once before just giving up and frying foes, this practically amounts to forced level-ups.



As it turns out, the Sand Prince is quite a nasty boss when the party is level 13. Eruption hits for 75% of any given character's max HP, and hits for roughly 2/3rds of the max HP of adjacent characters. His normal attack command also does more than that of the player characters. If Karis didn't get Fresh Breeze at tier 1 of base class, this would be a legitimately challenging fight.


The Kaocho generals can be a legitimate threat at level 13, as well. Ku-Embra's "strike with pure hatred" does about 90 damage to a single target, though Zealous Fury and Cyclone Slash are still pretty weak. The firecrackers are something to be concerned about, though, doing 70-85 damage to three party members. Ku-Tsung's Dragon Spark is very dangerous at this point in time, hitting the centre target for 85 damage and adjacent targets for 70+ each. Combined with inspiring speech and Cyclone Slash, this can be enough to KO a party member, and a Dragon Spark/firecracker combo can be lethal to up to three characters. Ku-Embra's inspiring speech can make the two very dangerous, boosting the damage dealt by strike with pure hatred and Dragon Spark to very dangerous levels. The fireworks are normally just a waste of an action, but I did get unlucky enough to have them disable Matthew's Flower when I needed area healing. Once again, Karis's base class breaks this fight badly, as does Tyrell's new Arid Scorch psynergy.


Ice Queen was a pain in the neck at level 15. She has a tendency to target characters weak to Mercury with Ice Missile, which in my case was Karis. This leaves Karis at only 45 HP, perfectly open for her to KO over the next few rounds if not healed quickly. It also does about 165 damage to Matthew, who was the adjacent party member. It's really effective for tying up all of my attackers but Tyrell. Unfortunately, Tyrell is the one she'll really be wishing she could tie up, as Arid Scorch does over 165 damage to her and really breaks the game at this point. The Ice Queen also likes to hit Amiti and Tyrell with Frostbite, doing fairly heavy damage to them too. The fight would be more difficult if Karis was at the centre of the party, rather than off to one side, as this would mean three characters would be hit, rather than two. On the other hand, the fight could have been potentially made easier by having Karis in her base class. (Or her HP could have been low enough for Ice Missile to OHKO. Either way.) The real problem with this boss fight is that she uses her regular attack too often, and her attack stat is too low. Icy Kiss can OHKO, but if that fails, its damage is pretty lame.


Djinn are still consistently very easy, despite being fairly challenging foes in GS1 and GS2.

I think you've made your point.
Logged
View Profile
Rolina
The Fulminous Witch
Jupiter Clan

Template maker turned lurker

Alchemist
*

Coins: 10
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
I am: wondering if we can get our clan position changed...
Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
Posts: 6051

« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2012, 11:48:53 AM »

tl;dr - It's not that the game is easier, it's just bad pacing.  You get too strong too fast.  It'd not be an issue if power growth was paced better.

Try an inepts run, or a run where you purposefully ignore all djinn you can.  You'll see what I mean.

Between the new weapon expertise system, the djinn acquisition rate, and the xp gain rate, it's too easy to overwhelm foes.  Remove one or two of those factors, and suddenly the game doesn't just get more difficult, it can get downright hard.  By the time enemies start to catch up with you, you're at post-game strength and they should be dropping like flies anyways.
Logged

View Profile WWW
JamietheFlameUser
Diamond Pokémon
Mars Clan

Does this look like the face of mercy?

Prodigy
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
I am: Poke poke poke poke... I can't stop it...
Posts: 2633

« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2012, 04:32:33 PM »

I've just been running from every possible encounter, excluding Mimics and Djinn. I'm level 18 at Border Town, now, and the random encounters are just starting to do some damage, though it's nothing that can't be corrected immediately after the battle using Rief's Wish, with no ill effects.

Problem is, it's getting increasingly difficult to flee from them. I've finally resorted to killing all but one enemy, then fleeing to avoid the EXP.
Logged

:P

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

Spoiler for epic mindscrew:
View Profile
zman9000
Golden sun fan/Map Builder
Luna Clan

Lord Zed

Excellent Member
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
I am: A guy who just really likes golden sun
Posts: 893

« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2012, 08:01:17 AM »

I don't know what it is with me sucking at golden sun games when they first come out, but I died so many times to every type of monster everywhere once the eclipse happened. and don't get me started on the bonus bosses or the 30 tries it took to beat the final boss. Though I do admit everything else was too easy...
Logged

Check my youtube channel out for lots of cool gaming related videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/xXzman9000Xx
View Profile
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Cbox
Yesterday at 08:44:56 PM
Fox: I must say... life can be complicated..... when you have question(s) (via email) ... and it seems like they sort of get ignored. :D ; Fun, (And sometimes, a person may respond, and completely not answer the question.... so like... 3-person conversation.) Hahahaha!!
January 15, 2018, 07:26:16 PM
Fox: (path) 1 text=(address) char=(address) free=(address) ; << Well, closer to this... but yeah... even if I do choose to have defaults in the code, I could still use this method for overrides.
January 15, 2018, 07:24:28 PM
Fox: So like (path) 0 text=(address) char=(address) len=(number) ; (path) 1 free=(address) ; Or something. But that's just a quick example.
January 15, 2018, 06:59:14 PM
Fox: Hopefully. I was wanting to make it so you could put in the addresses/etc. as one of the arguments in the path. Hm?
January 15, 2018, 03:37:07 PM
KyleRunner: Nice! I hope you'll add compatibility with others games (GS1, Mario Golf and Tennis) soon.
January 14, 2018, 11:40:09 PM
Fox: Okay. Posted (in Downloads section) an initial cutdown version for now, for my text compressor. Basically to separate the code from my Editor for anyone who wants to mess with it. It only supports GS2, because I still didn't add the addresses/etc. for the other games.
January 14, 2018, 05:01:00 PM
Fox: Okay! Going to need to think how I want it to work. Initial thoughts is maybe have a number of arguments in the filepath thing. And have a number of shortcuts (files) to be used as examples. Assuming there are no problems.
January 14, 2018, 10:38:24 AM
KyleRunner: Well... I'm used to editing text ina a text editor, so... yes! Thanks in advance!
January 13, 2018, 11:38:43 PM
Fox: (Text editor = Text Document like notepad.)
January 13, 2018, 11:38:21 PM
Fox: Would you prefer during the text editing in a text editor? (Like what gstoolkit lets you do?) I could probably make a separate tool or something to compress it.
January 13, 2018, 10:10:02 PM
KyleRunner: Ok. Once I finish my Lost Age translation, I'll try a Mario Golf one. Thanks. (But I'll need help).
January 13, 2018, 10:03:17 PM
Fox: If you want to make it "permanent" (part of a hack), then you'd edit code in the ROM that writes to this location of the IDs you'd want to change. (You can find these locations by using a breakpoint debugger like SDL-H or no$gba.)
January 13, 2018, 10:00:11 PM
Fox: Reload/switch = Recommended to be done through Debug mode/warp menu, ofcourse... since doors seem to appear as if they were disabled? ; 03001238:01 and B+Start to get to warp menu.
January 13, 2018, 09:55:39 PM
Fox: @Kyle Runner = It might be, but you'd have to use the correct addresses for Mario Golf, rather than for GS2 as I have it right now. ; @raijinken = Yes. 02000454 = ID of leader. (Change this and reload/switch room you are in, enjoy.)
January 13, 2018, 02:23:29 PM
raijinken: Hey guys, is it possible to somehow change the lead character on the map? Was wondering. I remember there was a cheat to use Jenna, but what if I wanted Isaac, or Piers?
January 13, 2018, 02:10:03 PM
KyleRunner: Hey, Fox *
January 13, 2018, 02:09:37 PM
KyleRunner: Hey, is your text editor compatible with Mario Golf (GBA)?
January 11, 2018, 08:33:13 PM
Fox: But if it isn't an oversight, I still can't imagine it being that useful.
January 11, 2018, 08:28:24 PM
Fox: part, ofcourse.
January 11, 2018, 08:28:15 PM
Fox: 0200274C = Hmm... Stuff happens here when you use Cyclone around bushes. (These cause tile replacements, and setting event 0 to those tiles.) - And I guess this kept here so it can be scanned after battle. (To re-update the map.) So here is my fun thought (assuming if it is even possible, or even convenient if so.) ... Are there any events from other maps that could be disabled do to using Cyclone on bushes + Retreat glitch? I'll need to do some testing to make sure this isn't an oversight on my

Affiliates
Temple of Kraden Golden Sunrise
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.064 seconds with 22 queries.