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Shuckle is to be feared.

Started by Charon, 20, May, 2011, 10:51:16 AM

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Charon

QuoteShuckle can deal the most damage ever. Although the circumstances would be nearly impossible, using Rollout, a level 100 Shuckle can potentially deal the most damage in one single attack through the use of numerous stat boosters, by using Helping Hand, Metronome held item, Power Trick, a Skill Swap to Pure Power or Huge Power, and the Defense Curl/Rollout combo. Also, Shuckle's partner must have the ability Flower Gift and the weather must be sunny. On the 5th impact of Rollout, if used against a level 1 Ledyba or Yanma that have been hit with negative Defense modifiers (such as Screech), it can deal 213,896,052 damage with a critical hit.

D:

leaf

#1
Aw cute little suckle.

Let's go down that list to see all the different multipliers they used...

Helping hand: 1.5x
Metronome item max: 2x
Pure Power: 2x
Flower Gift: 1.5x
Defense Curl: 2x
Rollout max power after 5 turns: 960
STAB: 1.5x
Weakness: 4x
Critical hit: 2x

Shuckle max atk (with 3 sd): 130 (520)
Ledyba min def (with 3 screech): 4 (1)

I don't remember exactly how to do low level stat calculations, but I'm pretty sure it comes out to 4. Either way, since stat mods round down, it should be 1 defense after all is said and done.

However, I'm pretty sure they're wrong. While it is a nice thought that shuckle could be capable of doing the most damage in the game, a walrein should be able to do more with ice ball. It has a max atk of 284 (1136 after 3 sd), and can also get every single one of the modifiers they used. That's a little more than 2.18x the atk power shuckle has. The only problem left is finding the lowest defense poke that's 4x weak to ice. That poke would be hoppip. While hoppip may have a base stat that is 10 points higher than ledyba (40 vs 30), at such low levels, it won't make a difference; their lv1 min defense will be identical. The maximum damage a pokemon is capable of should therefore actually be somewhere over 400 million.

I'm pretty sure walrein would still be the winner if going based on percentile damage, as well. No matter what, a lv1 shedinja will always be the best target for scoring maximum percentile damage against, since the lowest HP any other pokemon has at lv1 is 11. Normally, ice ball cannot hit sheddy, but since we're already taking into account things such as pure power and such, it's possible to replace sheddy's ability with something else. This should enable walrein to do just slightly more damage than shuckle against a sheddy, with the weakness modifier almost making up for walrein's higher atk, but not quite.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Charon

Oh, good point. I forgot about Walrein's Ice Ball + Defence Curl (yeah, he learns it from Spheal >_>)

I think the author assumed that they used Skill Swap to switch Pure Power with Sturdy or whatever with a third Pokemon (implying a triple battle), so that would require Walrein's/Shuckie's ability, Flower Gift from Cherrim and a third Pokemon with Pure Power (and whatever the name of its duplicate ability was; I can't remember atm). The third Pokemon would have to probably be Medicham or Meditite, and I don't think they learn any abilities that can strip Sheddy of his Wonder Guard (Skill Swap doesn't work on Wonder Guard, remember). I mean, you COULD probably do it by switching a Ramphardos/Haxarous after you finish your Skill Swap with Medicham because I'm pretty sure that wouldn't strip Walrein's newfound ability and the Mold Breaker would tear off Sheddy's ability.

So yeah... I'd have to go through later to see .

leaf

#3
I'm pretty sure worry seed still works on sheddy, though.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/worry_seed

Also, this only requires a double battle, not a triple battle, and therefore this is the highest possible damage in DP, as well. Remember, you can switch pokemon out. Highest possible in adv would be less, since there was no metronome (best you could do would be a choice band for a 1.5x boost), and I don't think flower gift was around then, either.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Awec

I thought the point here was that Shuckle has the highest defense in the game, and when using the move to switch defense and attack he gets the highest attack in the game.
But then again I got bored of Pokemon, so... (Who needs Pokemon when you have Golden Sun, amirite?)
I. Am. A. Spoon.
Yes, a spoon that is awesome that is a Jupiter adept that is one of the Anemos that lives on the freaking moon.
What of it?

Rolina

Now I want to see this.

Someone whip it up and upload it, we must see it... the ICE BALL PAIN TRAIN!

leaf

#6
Quote from: Awec on 21, May, 2011, 04:35:14 AM
I thought the point here was that Shuckle has the highest defense in the game, and when using the move to switch defense and attack he gets the highest attack in the game.
But then again I got bored of Pokemon, so... (Who needs Pokemon when you have Golden Sun, amirite?)
Oh oh ohhhhhhhhh. Now that might just work. The OP didn't mention power trick (and honestly, I forgot the move existed). In that case, shuckle is most certainly capable of the highest damage in the game.

Also, I double-checked, and both golem (base 110 atk) and sudowoodo (base 100 atk) are capable of more damage than walrein (base 80 atk); they both get defense curl and rollout. So, the rankings would actually be 1) shuckle with power trick (230 base def), 2) golem with power trick (base 130 def), 3) sudowoodo with power trick (base 115 def), 4) golem without power trick (base 110 atk), 5) sudowoodo without power trick (base 100 atk), 6) walrein with power trick (base 90 def), 7) walrein without power trick (base 80 atk), 8) shuckle without power trick (base 10 atk).

For some other notable pokes, there's donphan (120 base atk and def, gets dcurl, no stab), who is notable for having the strongest unSTAB'd rollout in the game without power trick (although will only outpower a non-power tricked shuckle), and steelix (200 base def, gets dcurl, no stab), who is notable for having the strongest unSTAB'd rollout in the game with power trick. With its massive 548 max defense, steelix should actually be capable of outdamaging even a power tricked sudowoodo. There's also torkoal (140 base def, gets dcurl, no stab), and probably a couple others.

I think even if power trick didn't exist, shuckle would still be capable of doing more damage than any other pokemon that does not learn rollout or ice ball. Rollout and ice ball max out at 960 power (and that's before the defense curl boost; actual max is 1920), when the next strongest attack in pokemon is only 250 power (explosion, which also halves defense, but that doesn't matter in this case). Going off of gen 4 (cause I don't have easy access to gen 5 stuff), the strongest explosion in the game is lickilicky, whose attack maxes out at 295 and gets STAB. Since they both get STAB, simple multiplication of the atk and base power of the move should give a rough estimate of how much stronger shuckle's attack is (it won't be exact, but the difference is negligible in this case), which is approximately 3.38x stronger. Then, the next strongest attack behind explosion is either 150 or 180 power depending on which generation you're talking about, and no poke gets a high enough atk or the multipliers necessary to offset that. In fact, even if deoxys-F were to magically become normal type and be able to learn explosion, 504*250 = 126000, while 130*1920 = 249600; shuckle's rollout would do almost 2x the damage that deoxys-F would be able to do with explosion, if it learned it and if it was normal type.

edit: Actually, the third strongest attack in the game would have to be a fire move used against a paras with dry skin. Probably victini's signature 180 power one. Lickilicky's explosion would actually rank pretty far down the list, since there are probably a bunch of pokes that get flare blitz that could outdamage it.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

zman9000

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