Tales of... the Golden Sun

[Aile~♥]

You know what would be cool? If someone extracted the character models, animations, and battle effects from GS:DD and made a GS:DD based hack of ToS2.

Strike Artes become Unleashes, and you learn them from having weapons equipped for a long enough period of time, rather than from level-ups. Unison Attacks are replaced with Summons, and Skills with Djinn effects. I've got the combo system figured out too: attack x3 > Lvl 1 Unleash > Lvl 2 Unleash > Lvl 3 Unleash > Lvl 4 Unleash > Novice Psynergy > Summon

Some unleashes can be learned at multiple "levels", and you can set that Unleash's level to be anything you've learned it at. However, you cannot set an Unleash to be multiple levels at once. For instance, Phaeton's Blade has Centurion as a level  3 Unleash, meaning it can link into only level 4 Unleashes and Novice-level Psynergy. However, Levatine has it as a level 2 Unleash and Sol Blade has it as a level 1 unleash. These alter the Unleash's place in the combo, especially as a level 1 Unleash, where it can only be used as the first Unleash of a combo. Setting your Unleashes so that you have a variety to use for full combo potential – and to work with the Unleashes that are only learned at one level – is a vital part of strategy.

Equally important are Djinn, as these affect the benefits a character receives while in Overlimit. Normally, Overlimit would prevent a character from staggering when hit, allow them to chain Unleashes in any order, and allow them to chain Mid-level Psynergy to the end of a combo in place of Novice Psynergy. However, equipping Djinn skills adds other benefits. For instance, Forge's skill gives the character a 25% P. ATK increase when in Overlimit. Kite's skill allows use of each Unleash level twice per combo when in Overlimit. Bark's skill decreases incoming damage by 50% when in Overlimit.

Some Djinn effects activate even when Overlimit isn't active, but all relate to Overlimit in some way. For instance, Aurora's effect causes the Tension Gauge to fill more quickly, so you can activate Overlimit more often.

Now for Summons, which are activated by pressing the Overlimit button a second time while in Overlimit. Tales of Symphonia 2 has an Elemental Grid system, with six minor elements and one major element. In this theoretical hack, each element has the effect of a single Djinni in determining the Summon used. In addition, each character provides a single "hidden" element of their own affinity when summoning. If Karis were to summon, she'd add one Jupiter element to the current total being used for summoning. This means that if all the minor elements are empty, and the major element is Jupiter, she'd summon Atalanta rather than Jupiter. But there's more: Each Djinni skill a character has equipped gives them one "hidden" element in that Djinni's affinity, so for example, giving Karis the "Forge" skill causes her to provide a hidden Mars to the grid, as well as the normal hidden Jupiter, when summoning. Also, using a summon clears all minor elements from the grid.

Any thoughts from anyone else to add to my Wall of Text?

[leaf]

While it sounds cool, it would probably look pretty awful in game. There's a pretty large disparity in the quality of DS models and wii models.

[Griever]

Sounds nice. Though is ToS2 even hackable?
I was thinking of playing that game since I can now get my hands on a Wii lol.

[Rolina]

Wouldn't it be called Tales of Weyard, though?

Also, leaf's right - you can't just rip the DS models.  If you were to do it the other way around - ripping the Wii game models and putting it into the editor, it'd still require a bit of tweaking to look good but you could do it.  The other way around... eh, you could use them as a base, but you'd need to make a higher polycount version.

[Aile~♥]

Yeah, you'd have to edit the models, definitely. Other than graphics issues, how does it sound? Anything to add?

Also, @Griever: It's just theoretical. After all, no-one's bothered to figure out how to do major hacking of ToS2. Found a few Gecko OS codes, though. Including one to remove the HP cap!

[Tetsuya the Azure Blade]

Yeah, you'd have to edit the models, definitely. Other than graphics issues, how does it sound? Anything to add?

Also, @Griever: It's just theoretical. After all, no-one's bothered to figure out how to do major hacking of ToS2. Found a few Gecko OS codes, though. Including one to remove the HP cap!

What about using ToS1, then?

[Rolina]

Change how some spells work.  Karis' Fresh Breeze line sounds like it'd be great as a constant regen effect (L1-3 in power), not a healing move, while the Cure, Pray, and Wish lines would be healing.  Consider Boon as ST regen as well (L2-4 in power).  Coatlique would be more of a "hyper regen" than a level 1-4 regen effect - essentially regenning enough to fully heal them from 1 HP within a second to a second and a half, replicating the cardboard invulnerability she granted in the games.

Obviously, some spell area types will be changed.  Beam line would be a straight beam in front of the character, hitting all foes in the way.  Fume would likely be an arcing path - if the foe isn't in the right spot, it can miss entirely.  If cast from point blank, though, the spell will "catch" the foe, taking the foe with it along its path and dealing constant additional damage as it goes (a full blast from start to end would probably be 1.5-2x the spell's standard impact power, so it'd not be constant full power, but enough to make it worth using in melee range).

Top Tier spells of mid-power and above need invocations.  I want to hear Indignation's Spark Plasma's incantation, dammit!

Need to figure out a way to do EPAs.  Do fighters get standard combos, just reworked for GS lore (ex:  Quake Blade/Flare Blade instead of Demon Blade)?  Do we have separate skill types for different weapons?  Are EPAs basically treated as Top Tier skills/combo finishers?

[Aile~♥]

No characters are pure mage, and none are pure fighter, due to how Unleashes work. Instead, Fighters have lower A. ATK, and learn spells at later levels, while Mages have lower P. ATK, and require more weapon hits before they learn Unleashes.

I can imagine Fume being badace as a spell because of that.

I figured for Thunderhead or Spark Plasma, we'd cheat and just use Indignation's incantation from ToS2. For Dire Inferno, I was thinking of a variation of Indignation's TotA incantation. ("I, who stand in full light of the heavens, command thee who opens the gates of Hell. Send forth your holy flame! Dire... Inferno.")

Also, for summons: "I call upon (GS summon description), I summon thee. Come, (summon name)!" So for Atalanta, it'd be: "I call upon the heavenly huntress, I summon thee. Come, Atalanta!"

Which'd make the number one incantation of battle-winning awesome be: "I call upon the goddess of rainbows, the guide of souls. I summon thee, come, Iris!"

Also, for the equivalent to mystic artes, I was thinking characters would get one of the high-level EPAs that are available to them, just all prettied up for epicness. Matthew's would be Odyssey (now with a badass incantation to go with!) Tyrell's would be an epic-ified Liquifier ("Oh yeah?! I'll finish this!" *slash* *casting pose*, *Liquifier ensues, hitting the enemy once as the energy bursts away from Tyrell, then nine more times as it falls from the sky on top of them*, "There're more, you say? I'll fix that!" *Liquifier beams proceed to fall all across the whole battlefield* *camera zooms back in on the main target* "LIQUIFIER!" *a single, giant beam falls on top of the enemy, dealing three hits, then a fourth hit as the screen fades to white*), Karis' would probably be a prettied-up Thunder Mine, Rief's would have to be a prettied-up Plume Edge, Amiti's would be an epic-ified Diamond Berg, Sveta's would be Beastform, essentially letting her go on an overpowered rampage (no flinching, doubled P. DEF and P. ATK, movement speed and A. DEF increased by 50%, and effectively infinite DEX (used for guarding) and LUCK) while regular combat continues, Himi's would be Call Dullahan, even though she doesn't get that in DD, just cause it's that epic, and Eoleo's would be a fancified combination of Vicious Chop and Planetary.

I imagine most EPAs, depending on the EPA, would function as Novice-level spells. Cutting Edge is usable as a novice spell, resulting in it being used at the end of a combo. Astral Blast is also a novice spell of similar function. Ragnarok, on the other hand, counts as a Mid-level spell, having a high-ish cast time and only being usable at the end of a combo when in Overlimit. A notable exception to these rules is Sveta's techniques in Beastform. Speed Punch counts as a level 1 Unleash (which makes it even more awesome, because it causes Sveta to Flash Step to directly in front of the target), Psynergy Surge as a level 2 Unleash, and Psynergy Slam as a level 4 Unleash. Eoleo's Keelhaul is also a level 1 Unleash, as he jumps forward to attack when using it.

Karis' Fresh Breeze would work like Healing Wind, healing targets with multiple "hits" depending on how long they stay in the area of effect. Boon would be a constant regen, and Coatlicue would be exactly as you described it. Wish would work just like Nurse.

Also: Matthew: "You're goin' noowhere! Quake Sphere!"
Tyrell: "Stand STILL, would ya?! Arid Scorch!"
Rief: "Arise oh torrential storm, to wash my enemies away! DELUGE!"
Amiti: "Ready for a rinse? Drench!"
Himi: "Dragon of earth, come and let the world be torn by your mighty roar. Reigning Dragon!"
Matthew: "I command the raging earth, to tear the ground asunder and shred the very sky! GRAAAND GAAIAAAAA!!!"

[Tetsuya the Azure Blade]

Matthew's would be Odyssey (now with a badass incantation to go with!)

I was thinking some thing like "He who holds the world splitting sword, bears his blade towards the enemies of the earth! The world's spirit grants power to the heroes who fight against the chains of fate! The eight heroes draw their blades to fight their destinies! RYYAAAGHHH! OOOODYEEEEESSEEEYYYY!

Eoleo's would be a fancified combination of Vicious Chop and Planetary.

And I was also thinking he could say this while he used the attack "Heh! You're good, but you're startin' TA PISS ME OFF!  *throws his weapon into the air*  LET'S SEE HOW YA LIKE THIS! BLAZE FRENZY! *uses a jump tackle version of Planetary that send him and his foe into the sky* *grabs his weapon* Still alive, ya punk!? YA WON'T BE AFTER WHAT I'M GONNA DO NEXT! *rapidly attacks the foe* Wait, wait, wait, I ain't finished yet! HAVE ONE O' THESE! *slams the foe down with his weapon* Like it? I call it Blaze Frenzy, but I haven't really thought about the name that much!"

Himi's would be Call Dullahan, even though she doesn't get that in DD, just cause it's that epic.

Himi's a Miko, it'd make more sense for her to have Ameterasu or another Japanese god as a move, like Izanagi. Or we can take a leaf out of a cerain other video game miko's attack list, and make the move a paper talisman attack.


And the heroes could say something at the start of boss fights, like at Apollo sanctum, Eoleo would shout "Hey! You two there! Blados & Chalis! You started this Grave Eclipse, and monsters killed my dad, and a lot of people in Belinsk! I'm gonna tear you guys a nice pair o' brand new arseholes! And Sveta could say this in the final battle "Oh no, brother, what have they done to you? *sob* I am sorry, but it looks like we are going to have to fight. *sob*If only there was another way *sniff*." And in the same fight Matt would use a modified version of his dad's epic line from TLA "Everyone, it looks like there's no other way! Though I've known what we're doing the moment I raised my bade! We're fighting for Weyard's future right now! We must win here or everything we've done so far would have been for naught!! Or in the first boss fight Karis could say "Wow, is this the power of the vortexes?" And in the Dim Dragon fight Tyrell'd say "What a crappy lookin' dragon! This'd be easy!" 

[Aile~♥]

For Odyssey, I was thinking something like: "I call upon the blades of the gods..." *ring of light emits from Matthew, like how they do in GS* "...to banish the darkness..." *two rings of light emit from Matthew* "and deliver mine enemies to the underworld!" *four massive swords skewer the enemy* "ODYYSSEYYYY!!!" *Matthew leaps forward and strikes as Odyssey's trademark massive sword crushes down from above and shatters the other blades.* Total combo hits: 7 (one hit for each of the "mini" swords, one hit from Matthew's slash, one hit from the giant Odyssey sword crushing down, and one hit from the "mini" swords shattering.)

For Eoleo's, it'd be something like: *leap, slice* "Hah!" "I'm outta patience..." *flames burst off his weapon for multiple hits* "And yeh're outta LIFE!" *does a rising slash into the sky, carrying his enemy with him* "Hahaharr! CORSAIR'S REVENGE!" *slams down to the earth surrounded by a massive dragon head, creating a huge explosion when he hits the ground.* "Tsayaaaa!" Total combo hits: 16 (one from Vicious Chop's initial slash, five from Vicious Chop's flames, one from the rising slash, six while the enemy is trapped by Planetary's dive, one when he hits the ground, and three from the resulting explosion.)

And Himi gets Call Dullahan because she also gets the Undead series and Fear Puppet. So there.


Also: Karis: "Is this the power of the vortexes?"
Isaac: "No, this creature is from the Tanglewood. But why's it in here, I wonder?"
Matthew: "Are you sure it's right to call it a 'creature'? It looks more like flora than fauna."
Garet: "Who cares? Let's just blast this thing!"

And after-battle quotes:

Isaac: "Come on, Matthew. No dawdling."
-----
Matthew: "That was a nice warm-up."
-----
Karis: "You couldn't hope to beat an Adept."
-----
Tyrell: "That's what you get, for messing with ME!"

[Tetsuya the Azure Blade]

And Himi gets Call Dullahan because she also gets the Undead series and Fear Puppet. So there.

I was on about her BASE CLASS, you moron. Nah, jk.

Right, jokes aside, what about this:

And the heroes could say something at the start of boss fights, like at Apollo sanctum, Eoleo would shout "Hey! You two there! Blados & Chalis! You started this Grave Eclipse, and monsters killed my dad, and a lot of people in Belinsk! I'm gonna tear you guys a nice pair o' brand new arseholes! And Sveta could say this in the final battle "Oh no, brother, what have they done to you? *sob* I am sorry, but it looks like we are going to have to fight. *sob*If only there was another way *sniff*." And in the same fight Matt would use a modified version of his dad's epic line from TLA "Everyone, it looks like there's no other way! Though I've known what we're doing the moment I raised my bade! We're fighting for Weyard's future right now! We must win here or everything we've done so far would have been for naught!! Or in the first boss fight Karis could say "Wow, is this the power of the vortexes?" And in the Dim Dragon fight Tyrell'd say "What a crappy lookin' dragon! This'd be easy!"  [\quote]

[Aile~♥]

That's the thing, we can't have class changes here, so characters would be getting bits and pieces from various classes that fit their personality and fighting style best.

[Tetsuya the Azure Blade]

Oh, right, I guess I'm the idiot, then. But what about having the battle conversations I said about?


EDIT: Oh, right.

Also: Karis: "Is this the power of the vortexes?"
Isaac: "No, this creature is from the Tanglewood. But why's it in here, I wonder?"
Matthew: "Are you sure it's right to call it a 'creature'? It looks more like flora than fauna."
Garet: "Who cares? Let's just blast this thing!"

[Aile~♥]

Yeah, you'd certainly have other mid-battle conversations, but that was just the first good one I came up with.

More random spell incantations:

Matthew: "Eat dirt! Mother Gaia!"
Sveta: "This might sting a bit. Wind Slash!"
Rief: "Isn't it chilly in here? Coldforge!"

[Tetsuya the Azure Blade]

Yeah, you'd certainly have other mid-battle conversations, but that was just the first good one I came up with.

Wait, YOU came up with that one?! I said it first!! If you remember, "Is this the power of the vortexes?" was in MY POST FIRST. What, you didn't even say I came up with "Is this the power of the vortexes?". What's that word for when someone steals your idea?

Yeah, I only wrote the "Is this the power of the vortexes?" part, the rest is Jamie's idea, but he didn't even say that mid battle conversations were my idea. >_<

[Aile~♥]

OK, sure, yes you get credit for the first line. But the Tales series has mid-battle conversations for some fights anyway.

[Rolina]

Huh, so you're gonna have a much different battle style in the end compared to Tales?

I recommend then that the four mages have less hits in their combos as well, to make more of a distinction.  Physical guys would have 3-4 hits in a standard base combo, while mages get 2 instead.

Also, how are you approaching beastform?

[Aile~♥]

Did you notice up there, where I said it was Sveta's "Mystic Arte"? Basically, she gets to go on an overpowered rampage for a while. She gets doubled P. ATK and P. DEF, a 50% increase to A. DEF and movement speed, effectively infinite DEX and LUCK, and doesn't stagger when hit. Also, Speed Punch lets her teleport to directly in front of the target for her attack, making her movement speed irrelevant a lot of the time.

[Tetsuya the Azure Blade]

I can picture her saying something like this when she goes beast mode "Now you've gone too far! Ugh, I won't forgive you! FEEL MY TRUE POWER! RRRRRAAAAAAOOOOOGGGHH! IIIIINHUUUUMAAANNN RRRRAAAAMPAAAAGEEEEE! GRRRAAAOOOHH!!"

Also:

Tyrell: "Hpmh! What a crappy dragon, this'll be easy!"
Karis: "Maybe you're right."
Matt: "I agree with Terry! Lets finish this quick, I'm hungry!"
Tyrell: "Hah! Me too!"
Karis "I second that notion!"
Matt: "How does pizza sound, then?"
All Three: "Hell yeah!"

After Battle quotes:

Matt: "Hey, guys, I'm ready for something to eat if you are!"
Terry: "I'm in! Nothin' like food to take yer mind off of a dissapointin' fight!"
Karis: "Shall we go, then?"

[Aile~♥]

Something like that, but less over-the-top. Only incantations get to be over the top.

Or just this, since it seems more in-character:

Sveta: "I shall finish this. Witness Morgal's true power. Beastform!" *transforms, then roars* "Hrrr... How(r) do you rike me now(r)?" ('r's in parentheses represent her slurring the ends of her words with a faint "r" sound.)