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Golden Sun BYOND

Started by Kioll, 21, November, 2011, 04:19:34 PM

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Aile~♥

If you just change Delusion to give a chance of evading Psynergy as well, then any class which has Delude or Mist in its natural moveset becomes a fairly effective blink tank.
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Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Kioll

Actually, I was thinking of adding a few new psynergies that have something to that effect.  I believe I outlined one of them, but I could be mistaken...  It's a two-turn attack, the first turn of which you vanish into the shadows, if you succeed, you perform an attack the next round with added damage.  If you fail, your defense drops and you take extra damage for a couple of rounds.
I am the almighty emissary of fire...  the Mars Adept Kioll.  Oh, and did I mention that I'll see you long before you see me?

Rolina

...So battles aren't done GS style then?

Aile~♥

Actually, they are, at least according to Kioll, and that's what's weird about it. See, blink tanks, or even tanks in general, don't really work in GS's system, because GS doesn't have battle positioning at all. No combat rows or anything like in some RPGs.
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Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

Tanks do, they just need a cover ability like Sveta has.  What doesn't work are Blink Tanks, and the concept of "ranged fighters".

Aile~♥

True. Both those things only work as thematics, but wouldn't actually have anything different from a regular character class.

Blink tanks can sort of work, if they have an ability that lets them go invisible for one turn, but can only be used once every two turns. See, what you do is when Dullahan uses Element Swap, you stealth. Then your blink tank is the only one to survive him Charon-ing the rest of your party, so you go spam Revive or Water of Life on everyone else. A thief-like build really can be done in GS's battle system, but not if the combat is to remain balanced in GS's style. For example, I could totally take a character and give them: an ability to steal HP from opponents, an ability that allows them to remove the target's next turn, an ability that allows them to cloak or barrier themselves, etc.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

No, I don't think that'd be a very good idea.  A class that works around avoiding damage entirely could easily wind up broken.  You have to think not in terms of other RPG types of characters and more with GS specific types. There can be minor tweaks for variety, such as adding the ability to have one character cover, or take damage for another.  This would help Tanks like Garet be much more useful.  However, I don't think that Kio seems to care... I've tried to reason several times, but he's quite insistent.  It's why I'm waiting to see how exactly this is going to turn out, because I may just be misunderstanding how this is going to turn out in the end - for all I know, it could be a very different game but with GS style mechanics, battle may not even be the same.  So I'm waiting for context, because for all we know BYNOD may have a specific battle system it works with, and we're "expected" to know that...

leaf

BYOND has whatever battle system you program. There is nothing preset.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
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[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Rolina

I see.  So in that case, I definitely need to see a sample of what he wants to do with it before I say anything else, because having range doesn't work outside of AoE with GS' battle system - this tells me he's gonna be changing it quite drastically, so I'm gonna want to see just what he has planned before I help anymore.  I can't exactly help if we have two very different things in mind, after all.  Leaf should know that more than anyone, after our discussion for the SRPG we had a while back.

Kioll

I'm not adding a ranged combat system.  This has nothing to do with that.  Basically, the major difference about the psynergy in question is that it's A, a two-turn attack, and B, you basically vanish the first turn, IF it works, and the next turn you attack with added damage.  I don't see how the concept is hard to understand.  It's all a matter of how you display the icons, not really a big issue.  As for the ability for it to break...  the chance of success will be the major balancing factor.  As I said before, if you don't succeed, you take more damage...  And setting it up to be an item class would further obscure it.  I don't intend to break my own game, I just want to add something that could easily be incorporated to help the choices appeal to a broader personality range.  I, for one, like playing thiefy types.  The frailty helps to further balance the character...  Anyways, most of this is still conceptual, the real test of whether or not these things stay the way they are in my head at the moment is when it gets to playtesting.
I am the almighty emissary of fire...  the Mars Adept Kioll.  Oh, and did I mention that I'll see you long before you see me?

Aile~♥

@Role: As I said, you CAN do a thief-type build in GS's engine, but NOT in GS's playstyle.
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Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

@Jamie:  That kind of defeats the point, IMO.

Kioll

Actually, I've done some looking through the Golden Sun psynergies and effects, and I've discovered something.  A "Backstab" psynergy ALREADY EXISTS within Golden Sun: TLA.  In fact, other than some of the psynergy choices (which end up reminding me more of Gambit than anything, although he himself fits the description), the Pierrot class series is about 75-80% accurate to the ideas I had for the Sneak in general.  A few added psynergies, probably taken from djinn effects or new ideas, and it would basically be exactly what I was talking about.  Also, the class stats are slightly off, but that's not that big of a deal.

And Role...  This is aimed specifically at you.  I like a fair amount of your ideas, I do.  And I don't like to argue with people, but here's the thing.  You stopped contributing positive, constructive ideas about 3 or 4 pages ago.  If you don't like the ideas behind this game, then don't post.  And to negative criticism in general...  If you have something to say, say it.  Give it a reason for being constructive.  If you can't do that, then (And pardon me, for this, admins, but it must be said...) shut your damn trap about it, ignore this thread, and MOVE ON.  >.>  I don't care whether you think it's SUPPOSED to exist.  Worlds change, it's a fan-made game, and you're not the mind behind it.  So, if you don't want anything to do with the way I am going to make this game, then shove it where the sun doesn't shine and get the **** out of the thread.  >.>  <.<  >.<
I am the almighty emissary of fire...  the Mars Adept Kioll.  Oh, and did I mention that I'll see you long before you see me?

Kioll

I didn't say crossbows were too advanced for the setting, but guns are.  Thank you, though.
I am the almighty emissary of fire...  the Mars Adept Kioll.  Oh, and did I mention that I'll see you long before you see me?

Durza

A possible suggestion for keeping within the GS battle-style: Instead of having the psynergy make the caster dodge everything, instead make it either reduce or increase damage they take by 75% for the first turn, then strike on the second.

Another idea for the disappear-strike would be to have four different psynergies, each one dodging all but a single element. Maybe have four classes with access to one, and the single Thief class who can use all of them. Just spamming ideas there, ignore it if you want.
It's not a lie if you don't want to be believed. You're can't be wrong if you don't think you're right.

Kioll

I'll probably put that in for dodging area attacks, or something similar anyways.  Single attacks, however, I don't think will incorporate that.
I am the almighty emissary of fire...  the Mars Adept Kioll.  Oh, and did I mention that I'll see you long before you see me?

Misery

#96
For a disappear-strike attack, I would hardly consider it broken. Think about dig and fly in Pokémon. You merely stall on the first turn, take two turns to do one attack, give away your next action, and leave yourself with no way to adapt if the situation changes on the next turn (which can happen in some of the harder battles). Unless you allow for choosing a new action on the same turn you attack, but that would be stupid.

Quote from: Durza on 28, November, 2011, 06:02:46 AM
Another idea for the disappear-strike would be to have four different psynergies, each one dodging all but a single element. Maybe have four classes with access to one, and the single Thief class who can use all of them. Just spamming ideas there, ignore it if you want.
Gives me another idea (although it may not be all that original). Have a psynergy that makes you immune to a single element on the turn it's used. For a fast character it could actually be pretty viable if there are any particularly threatening elemental attacks (and even most physical skills are elemental). There's nothing quite like it in GS, but I don't think it feels too out of style.

For a similar idea, have the character perform a counterattack when hit by an attack of the right element. To actually reflect the attack would be a bit too powerful, but using a counter like with the Reflux djinn should be fine.

Aile~♥

I don't think reflecting would be too powerful, or at least basing the counter's strength on the strength of the initial attack, considering it only counters one element. Certainly, being able to perfectly reflect Cruel Ruin would be unfair, but being able to counter with an Added Damage move with the same base power value (so, for cruel ruin, +200), wouldn't be too bad.
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Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Durza

A +200 added damage could be pretty bad though. I don't think that any psynergies went above 120. If it were simply cast back again with its base power it might be more reasonable.
It's not a lie if you don't want to be believed. You're can't be wrong if you don't think you're right.

Aile~♥

Not on Cruel Ruin, it wouldn't, because of summon damage. +200 hurts, but again, this is on a boss's signature move, and it only counters one element. If you give the boss one ubermove per element, then it's a guessing game. If you cast Cruel Ruin back on the boss, you'd be hitting for over 1500 damage!
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]