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Immigration

Started by Salanewt, 01, July, 2009, 10:34:00 PM

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Salanewt

In Canada, immigration is popular, in which case, more people want to come than people who leave. I myself like immigration, but it should be limited to people who can contribute to the country. What I mean is that there are people who come here, work for a few months, and then go on welfare. There are also people who get more benefits than the people who have lived here for so long, or for life. What do you all think about immigration where you live, agree or disagree (or are you neutral)?

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Rolina

Immigration is fine.  Just do it legally.  If you do it illegally, you're a felon.  Honestly, I think they should put up a "Trespassers will be shot on sight" sign on the national borders.

I mean, I have several friends who are legal immigrants.  They HATE illegals, because they give the legal ones a bad name.  And it's not that hard to get legal, either.

Bottom line:  Illegal Aliens are criminals by definition.  To defend rights they technically don't have in this country is technically Aiding and Abetting.  I understand, they're human too.  So they'll follow the laws of humans, or face the punishments of humans. >_>

Honestly, how hard is it to actually do things lawfully?

twocows

Quote from: Role on 11, July, 2009, 08:36:00 AMHonestly, how hard is it to actually do things lawfully?
I would imagine that the two biggest hurdles for immigrants to the United States becoming citizens are learning to read, write, and speak basic English and having a general knowledge of US government and history. The immigrant must also have been a legal permanent resident for five years. I'm not completely certain, but I believe there are organizations to help potential immigrants become citizens for free, but remember that many immigrants will have little money, and any time they're not spending doing work is money they're not getting. Considering the wages for the sort of jobs they end up doing, the time investment for becoming a citizen may not be worth it compared to the risk of deportation . Not to mention many may not even know how to become a legal citizen; I found this information on the internet, but many potential immigrants won't have access to that resource. I'm not even sure how they'd get a permanent residency visa in the first place.

This post has been edited by twocows on Jul 23 2009, 02:32 PM

Charon

I'm not fond of immigrating illegally. If they wish to be successfully integrated with American Society, they should be able to communicate and have at least a rough understanding of the country.

<-- Not much of a Melting Pot fan

Rolina

Quote from: twocows on 23, July, 2009, 02:32:00 PMI would imagine that the two biggest hurdles for immigrants to the United States becoming citizens are learning to read, write, and speak basic English and having a general knowledge of US government and history. The immigrant must also have been a legal permanent resident for five years. I'm not completely certain, but I believe there are organizations to help potential immigrants become citizens for free, but remember that many immigrants will have little money, and any time they're not spending doing work is money they're not getting. Considering the wages for the sort of jobs they end up doing, the time investment for becoming a citizen may not be worth it compared to the risk of deportation . Not to mention many may not even know how to become a legal citizen; I found this information on the internet, but many potential immigrants won't have access to that resource. I'm not even sure how they'd get a permanent residency visa in the first place.
That's becoming a citizen, and while being a respectable venture, is not somethign that is necessary for someone to come here legally.  It's perfectly fine for someone to come here legally and NOT become a citizen.  It's the illegals I get pissed off about, since they give some of my good friends a really bad name.

This post has been edited by Role on Jul 23 2009, 04:06 PM

Charon

My main argument against illegals is that while everyone else (like my father, for example) has to work, wait and do a ton of other fun stuff to get themselves a nice little Green card, while some illness ridden Mexican sneaks over in the car, doesn't have to pay taxes and still believes they should get the same benefits. I would beg to differ.

Salanewt

Yeah. Anyway, not long ago, the Canadian Government decided that two countries should have to get Visas when they come. I forget which country the other one is, but I think that Mexico was the first one (based on where the most immigrants come from, the most who come and do not work). Besides, it is our tax dollars which are paying for the welfare of others.

Oh, what else was I going to say... Oh yes, I am not a fan of the melting pot either, but when people come here because it is a better country than where they are from, I do not want to hear them badmouthing their new home. They chose to move here, why are they insilting EVERYONE ELSE in the country?

Why can't the world be as one?

Have a nice day.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Rolina

« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2009, 12:24:06 PM »
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 11:20:00 PM »

Hmm... Well, since you're at least on topic, here's my view.


Immigration is fine, but the law is the law.  If you have a problem with how hard it is to immigrate, work on changing the law, but you still have to enforce the laws that are already here, and you can't just forgive those who show complete disregard for the law. 

Aile~♥

@Role: He doesn't even raise any new points! And he comes into a debate topic whose previous post was almost TWO YEARS AGO just to say he's NEUTRAL on the issue! If you don't have anything to say, then DON'T SAY IT.

Common sense, people.

@Jiten: ...........ELLIPSES! STOP..................................ABUSING..............................................................ELLIPSES.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

You know me, usually I yell at people for doing that, but last time I did so I think I was told to lay off a bit, so that's why I didn't scream at them this time.  But hey, since you're cool with it apparently, I'll go ahead and start chewing people out for necroposting things.

Aile~♥

It's not the necroposting, it's the necroposting while not actually adding to discussion. I've no problem if you want to necropost a debate with a well-thought-out argument for one side. It might get things going again. But this? This is ridiculous.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

But aren't the two of you pretty much doing something worse? I mean, you are discussing Jiten's post; something that they probably realize by now might not have been the best idea, seeing as they probably didn't know about this precautionary guideline that isn't even found in the Rules and Guidelines topic. However, aside from Role's first post, there has hardly been any new discussion on the original topic... I guess I am an offender now, but really now, it should be known that they are a newer member.

Quoteinsilting

I can't believe I missed that error. Oh well, it was made almost two years ago, it might be a little late to change it now.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Aile~♥

#12
Go take a look at that topic there. You know, the pinned topic in the Open Discussion section. The one labelled "On Necroposting".

True, it's not found in the actual "rules" section, but it's right there in front of you when you enter this section, in full bold and plainly obvious.

But yeah, we should stop wasting posts yelling at him in this topic. If I want to yell at Jiten, I'll just do it over PM.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Misery

Jiten actually did bring up a new point, the impact of the ever-changing public opinion. But yeah, it was a pretty blatant necropost.

Still, while I understand it annoys you when people break the rules despite that they are clearly listed, I wish you could simply tell them they the rule broken without also chewing them out. Most of the time it's unintentional, and someone who isn't busy with feeling offended is more likely to realize their mistake.

Rolina

Well, my counter is that the law is the law.  You're starving, so you steal a loaf of bread and some sandwich stuffs.  However, you were caught on camera, and now you're @#$ is off to jail.  Rules are rules, maybe you should have gotten some money and bought the bread - there's plenty of people who'd help you out, too.  You could have gone to a food bank, for example.

The thing is, you've got to follow the rules.  So these people came here illegally, and we have a huge amount of people telling them to get lost.  Why?  Because there are lawful ways of getting over here, that many of our friends and even some of us came through.  People jump to their defense, but it's easily countered by "The law is the law."

For children who were brought here, it's a bit more touchy, though.  For this, look at their age.  If they're over 18 and did not try to get legal status, throw their @#$ over their border.  They're old enough to know better now.  If they did, cue them in line - don't let them cut exactly, but at least give them a solid spot in line.  If they're younger, then it's even touchier.  My personal stance is to not break up the family - if the family goes, they go too.

Finally, if any of them - ANY of them have been convicted of a crime, they do not get to come back.  They lose their right to legal status, period.

Rolina

There's also the fact that I live on a border state and can see the direct effects of illegal immigration.  That's got quite a bit of influence for me, some of it personal.

Rolina

I live next to a home depot that closed down.  I don't particularly care for the cat calls that the illegals shoot my way.  I wish they'd find another hardware store instead of standing around outside of our apartment complex all day.  I wish the cops in our town were worth a damn too, so that they'd do something about it.

Aile~♥

@Role: Now your vehement disapproval makes PLENTY more sense. Once it's personal, it's personal, after all. I assumed you were just being a random political fanatic!

/brick'd

X.x
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

Nope, I just don't wanna get raped.

It's something that I have personal experience with.  Now, I don't have problems with legal immigrants, most of them are very nice.  And even try to speak english.  They very much want to be part of this country, and it shows.

Illegals, though... Let me be bluntly honest when I say I'm concerned for my safety around them.  It's not a political thing with me.  Again, I live where this is actually an issue - I know first hand what the truth is like.

Rolina

Another thing I know is that unlike what the media wants you to believe, the legals I have met really despise illegals.  After all the hard work and dedication they showed to get here, the illegals just waltz on in and take stuff.  It really pisses them off.

And again, this is the people I personally know.

zman9000

Whats been making me mad is how the news has been making the illegals look like the good guys and for some crazy reason have more rights then us??? Sure getting past our border is an achievement, and their reward should be launched back back over the fence by strapping a rocket to their leg and firing them over.

illegal: but i have a baby!
zman: its OK don't worry.

*zman straps the baby to the illegal*
WOSHHHHHHHHHHHhhHHHHHH!!!!!!!


O and those @#$ holes who think we will mix up people who came across legally.
if you can't speak English, your either a baby, a foreigner, or an illegal. those who can't speak English shouldn't even be a american citizen, in fact I don't think you can become one with knowing it.
*zman rages some more*
Check my youtube channel out for lots of cool gaming related videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/xXzman9000Xx

Rolina

Aye, they are villainizing law enforcement and trying to make the criminals seem sympathetic.  The media tends to lean liberal, even CNN is about a 3:1 Liberal:Conservative lean.  I think Fox are the only ones who don't do this, though they lean closer to 2:3 (though they claim 1:1, I'm not too sure about that).  I could go on about media bias, but that should be for another topic.

Charon

#22
To be honest, it really irks me when people give sympathy to illegal immigrants.

Now, unlike Role's situation, its not really an issue where I live, because most Canadians come in legally. But you see, my FATHER had to go through a bunch of bullshit just to be able to LIVE and WORK in this country, and it pisses me off to a great extent that people from Mexico and other central American countries can just dilly dally into here and get a free pass because they're poor. Yeah. Sure. My dad came from England.

But you know what?

He lived in poverty, just like the people coming in from south of the border. Oh, but since England's not considered a "poor country", he doesn't matter, does he?

If they really want to live here so bad, they should go through all the same damn hoops that my father did. They should work towards permanent residence like my father did. And even then, if they broke the law, they'd be outta here - like my brother almost was (he also is an English citizen) a few years back for refusing to pay his taxes. All I really want is an equal interpretation for everyone - if you're going to open the floodgates, feel free to do so, but you better do it with everyone and not just give a select few people sympathy.

By the way, by letting all the people in freely will NOT fix the problem with Mexico, just move it here. Which doesn't do anyone any good. If you really want to fix the problem, fix it by going to the problem's source. But we can't run Mexico for them, so the best we can do is encourage them to fix it by themselves by keeping a strict and UNIFORM immigration policy.

Wolf

In the past migration overruled immigration regulation resulting in the establishment of many civilizations across the planet.  You could say illegal immigration has been used by different groups to forcefully or tactically acquire land that belonged to their opposition or neighboring tribes/countries/kingdoms/etc.  In the present we just happen to have a bunch of relatively stable authoritative groups to maintain most of the borders, both natural and declared, existing around the world.

Thunder-squall

#24
Boom.  Topic outta nowhere.

I'd argue that our borders aren't that regulated, and that powerful interests don't want to prevent illegal border crossings--they want to criminalize those who cross over, and in doing so enslave them.