Idea I thought up....

[Rolina]

So, you know how Sveta has Beastform, right?  It got me thinking...

What if that whole "Superpower mode at cost of a djinn per turn thing" isn't just beastform exclusive... what if that was just one type of form you could take advantage of?  I've been sitting here thinking about it, and... well...

I can easily see an item bestowing a skill like that.  You use the skill, and BAM, suddenly you're in an uberclass until you're out of djinn, the adept's abilities are heightened, their powers greatly expanded... the specifics, of course, are dependent of the ability itself, but imagine the potential.

IMO, Beastform was one of the things that Dark Dawn almost nailed.  Personally, I'd like to have had it be an instant effect, rather than a sacrificed turn, but that's just me.  Imagine a mage Adept getting an "Overburst" mode or something like that, where the psynergy's literally overflowing, and they're throwing out ubers like crazy.  The effects could be something like expanded range, less diminishing effects, and of course uber-class level stats.  It's an interesting concept, but they'd have to be careful in its execution.

[RagnarokEmissary]

Nice idea, I like the idea of going into a super mode, and mopping the floor with the unlucky sods on the other side of my overpowered rampage.

Imagine a mage Adept getting an "Overburst" mode or something like that, where the psynergy's literally overflowing, and they're throwing out ubers like crazy.

What about fighters? Would their version have a different name, or something?

[Salanewt]

From what I understand, that model is used for a specific class line. This might be done in a similar way to the NPC class' Vermin sprite, where the game will load a different sprite if the player's class ID is 12. I think this means that all you would need to do is make a skill that can change your class mid-battle, and then make the code pick a sprite/model for said class ID. Since Sveta's swap is probably considered a unique class, it helps that nobody else can just switch into it either...

Unless I'm forgetting something, this shouldn't be too hard to do at all. An ability to boost an elemental level/physically change classes, a byte for an ailment/buff with a countdown that is dependent on the player's Djinni count, and a class that you can't just change into at any time. At least, that would likely be the bare minimum. Exceptions for a graphic/animation swapping transition, weapon removal, stat changes, elemental levels, and so forth would probably make it a bit better as well.

[leaf]

Not bad, role. I like.

[Misery]

I think the superpower mode is a pretty neat idea too. However, in DD, the fact that the beastform so easily outperforms all other characters in attack power with no real drawback, combined with that it's slightly less... visually appealing, made me end up simply pretending it doesn't exist.

If I were to make something similar, this is how I would do it:
The power requires that the character has djinn on it to be activated
It lasts for a predetermined amount of turns (say 3) after it has been used.
How powerful it becomes (which class the character switches to) depends on how many djinn the character has.
When the turns are up, all of that character's djinn are put in recovery.

Assuming every character has one super form, and you can get 9 djinn per character, that's up to 9 extra classes per character. Higher classes gets better stats and abilities, obviously. Instead of a sprite swap, the character could switch to one of the glow palettes.

[Rolina]

Nice idea, I like the idea of going into a super mode, and mopping the floor with the unlucky sods on the other side of my overpowered rampage.

Imagine a mage Adept getting an "Overburst" mode or something like that, where the psynergy's literally overflowing, and they're throwing out ubers like crazy.

What about fighters? Would their version have a different name, or something?

You misunderstand - being mage minded, I simply thought of what would be most natural for my style of character - likely, though, there'd be a wide variety of these types of moves.  Several different types for different types of fighters, from attackers, to tanks, to healers, to mages, to buffers, to mezzers, to speedsters, etc.  It was just meant to be but one example from many possibilities.

@Misery:  Beastform wasn't perfect, that's for certain, but part of the issue was that it was also the ONLY uberform in the game - as a result, of course it overpowered everything else.  Also, remember that beastform only had 3 classes to it - that'd likely need to stay, IMO.  What also probably should happen is 'class degradation' as the form goes on.  So it starts in the "Tier 8" class, then after two turns becomes "Tier 7", then after two more is at the base level of "Tier 6".  One thing I think beastform got dead wrong was that it didn't have exclusive psynergy.  If there's ever a time for a Tier 4 attack spell or Tier 3 buff etc, it's in this type of form.

In a sense, look at how FF9 handled Trance.  I imagine something somewhat similar in nature - a huge boost in power, a noticeable change in appearance, and quite possibly some kind of "power glow".  Also, I speak of future GSes here - there's a reason I haven't put this topic in the hacks category.  I don't think it can be done for a hack.

So, looking at your 'conditions', here are my comments.

*No arguments with the first, that's what beastform needed too.  In fact, the things that give you these shouldn't even be gotten until a ways into the game.
*I think the duration needs to be tied to the djinn.  I also think that the duration can be flexible.  Perhaps a particularly strong one could use up 3 djinn per turn, while another's specialty would be it's staying power, with 1 djinn per turn.
*This is how beastform works.
*As is this.

So, for the most part, you seem to be fine with beastform and similar uber mode.  The main problems I see right now?

1 - it's too limited.  This needs to be something multiple characters can access, or it's broken by default.
2 - it's not useful.  Face it, by the time you took that turn to transform, the enemies are all dead (Unless it's a boss).  Obviously, for something like this to work, there needs to be merit behind its use - as such, enemies must at least be strong enough to survive long enough for it to be usable.
3 - it's underwhelming.  Beastform's got stats behind it.  That's.  It.  You have the attack all and guard all, but aside from that, all the psys at its disposal can be obtained in Sveta's other two unique classes.  I'm not saying it has to be crazy powerful - those are powerful skills already.  I'm saying it's gotta be special, something that the form can truly call its own.  A signature skillset, so to speak.  Even if the actual moves Beast!Sveta had were statistically identical (they're physical, after all, no need for a tier up), it'd have been nice if they were unique or special, something that you could really be wowed by.  Barring that, an added effect due to the form itself.  What if mach punch had a shockwave from the force, doing diminishing damage to one foe on either side of Sveta?  You may actually have used it then.  There's plenty of other examples I could come up with, but I'm sure you get the gist by now.

The uber form basically can't just be a stat up.  That's... well, boring.  It needs a bit more flair.  Beastform has the whole savage look down, which is nice I guess, but... well, in terms of skills, it's kinda boring.

[Misery]

Of course the game has to be hard enough to warrant using it. I'm comparing this to summons a lot, you could go around using summons against normal enemies, but you don't, because they're just not that hard.

There are many ways to do it. Power degradation is a good idea, and really, the only option if you want the effect to last for a while. I said the djinn would be set into recovery only when the time is up because otherwise they would start to recover while you're still in super mode - then I realized you could just add some turns to them. Point is, they should all be set in recovery as soon as you use the ability. I recall beastform putting one djinn in recovery per turn, not all at the end.

And yes, I know the beastform doesn't have as many classes as it has djinn. You could decide there's only one form per class, and all 9 djinn are required for it. Or you could have one form per character, but many variations of it.

I'm imagining a different skillset too, like being allowed to use djinni abilities for example. This is why I'd want it to be limited to a few turns, you can use some otherwise inaccessible skills, so you'd have to use those turns wisely.

Also, I speak of future GSes here - there's a reason I haven't put this topic in the hacks category.  I don't think it can be done for a hack.

Well, I speak with hacking in mind, and I don't see why it couldn't be done. If they introduce it in a future GS though... they better ramp up the difficulty a little so you at least have a reason to use it.

[Aile~♥]

@Role: Well, we know what happens in GS when Psynergy overflows is that it can do catastrophic damage to the person suffering the overflow. It also induces fusions if you're not careful.

I'd personally argue that if everyone gets a super mode, it should only be really notable on certain specialised characters. Other characters would have something similar, but theirs wouldn't be as unique or as powerful.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend it as a regular game mechanic for a series like Golden Sun. The ability for certain characters to go into a fusion mode near the endgame might work, however. Of course, going fusion would likely result in them being KO'd and having their PP completely drained when it wears off.

[Rolina]

@Misery: Go use beastform again.  I'm sure leaf can back me up here - djinn STAY in recovery until beastform is done. 

@Jamie:  The idea here is to have an item channel the overflow properly.  That's why the item bestows the spell for the uber form.  If you actually try, there's plenty of expanations you can give for it to work, the easiest being that Fusion requires a different type of energy all together.  This would be safer, but less powerful than fusion.  The strain is placed on the djinn, who can recover from it, and once they're done the influx of energy is cut.  See?  Fifteen seconds of pulling words out of my @#$ and I've found a solution, one of many possible ones I'm sure people can come up with.

[Aile~♥]

It's practically stated in GS1 that the fusion was caused by a Psynergy overflow, so I don't think that's a truly valid excuse. I will concede that "the strain is placed on the Djinn instead" is believable, however.

[Rolina]

Easy counter is easy - that's what's required to start a fusion, yes.  That's not the only thing it can cause, though.

[Aile~♥]

See, I'd just use the excuse of "the Djinn hold the overflow in check to prevent fusion and/or harm to the Adept". I still think allowing a fusion vs fusion boss fight at the end of the game would be cool, though.

And while I've no problem with super modes like that from a storyline standpoint (aside from the question of "why couldn't the previous player characters do that?"), it doesn't sit well with me from a gameplay standpoint. This isn't the Tales series, and I'm not sure if Golden Sun would really benefit from an Overlimit-style mechanic like that.

[leaf]

Of course the game has to be hard enough to warrant using it. I'm comparing this to summons a lot, you could go around using summons against normal enemies, but you don't, because they're just not that hard.

Well, I actually do use summons against normal enemies at certain parts of the game if I don't feel like fighting. The difference here is that summons can actually make clearing battles faster. Beastform takes more time.

There are many ways to do it. Power degradation is a good idea, and really, the only option if you want the effect to last for a while. I said the djinn would be set into recovery only when the time is up because otherwise they would start to recover while you're still in super mode - then I realized you could just add some turns to them. Point is, they should all be set in recovery as soon as you use the ability. I recall beastform putting one djinn in recovery per turn, not all at the end.

Beastform put djinn into recovery one by one, yes, but they didn't start to recover until you left it. The mechanic was very well done imo, with the sole exception of having to spend a turn to transform.

[Rolina]

Aye, summons leave you vulnerable at first for an initial explosion of power.  Beastform and similar things don't have that intense amount of power that summons do, but rather have a lesser yet prolonged power.  It also leaves you vulnerable at the end.

One thing beastform didn't do was class-down after a few turns, which I think should.  When you no longer have the djinn pushing you into the higher tiers of the class, it should shift you into the weaker forms.  Granted, they're still crazy powerful, but that initial burst has just worn down.

And Jamie, don't worry about GS becoming Tales.  That'll never happen, gameplay is WAY different.  Plus, tales has it be character-specific.  My idea is that it's not, it acts like the item classes instead in most cases.  The only time it's character specific is when they're more than just an adept, like in Sveta's case, or possibly even Isaac/Matt's case if they take advantage of the bit of power of the Mars Star flowing in their blood.  Other than that, it'd have to be some kind of relic from the previous golden age.

[Aile~♥]

What do you mean, character-specific? In the Tales series, Overlimit can be used by anyone, with pretty much universal effects.

I'm also kinda worried about the series turning into Dragon Ball Z, where everyone just abuses super mode every battle 'cause there's no reason not to. In DD, if the battle ends before Sveta's first Beastform turn is up, she reverts without losing any Djinn. If you were to remove the turn of startup, and make it or similar available to every party member, there'd be no incentive to ever not go super mode.

And actually, none of Sveta's Djinn go into recovery until Beastform ends, either until she's taken a number of turns equal to the number of set Djinn she has +1, or until the battle ends. Additionally, standby Djinn do not contribute to Beastform, and so are not sent into recovery when it ends. I'm pretty sure that's how it works, anyway, though I may be mistaken.

I'd say that making super forms like Beastform class down over time would be a bad idea, simply because lower-classed versions of Beastform are weaker than her higher-stage normal classes. If she were to class down over time, that would leave her effectively powered-down while still in Beastform, which just doesn't seem right to me.

[leaf]

And actually, none of Sveta's Djinn go into recovery until Beastform ends, either until she's taken a number of turns equal to the number of set Djinn she has +1, or until the battle ends. Additionally, standby Djinn do not contribute to Beastform, and so are not sent into recovery when it ends. I'm pretty sure that's how it works, anyway, though I may be mistaken.

Meh. I suppose that's a more accurate description of it. We shouldn't be arguing over this, anyway, since we both know how it works.

As for making the class drop while still in super mode, I strongly disagree. For basically the same reasons jamie stated.

[Rolina]

What do you mean, character-specific? In the Tales series, Overlimit can be used by anyone, with pretty much universal effects.

...Werewolves get beastform.  People with the direct power of the golden sun get some special burst of energy.  Everyone else has to find a relic to help channel the energy.  So it's pretty much the opposite of tales - only the select few have an innate uber.

I'm also kinda worried about the series turning into Dragon Ball Z, where everyone just abuses super mode every battle 'cause there's no reason not to.

There's no reason not to summon, and not everyone does it.  Like, for example, me.  Also, I don't like beast form.  Godlike stats and power?  Sure.  But I don't think that alone merits its use.  Also, DBZ?  You're starting to push it.  Are you sure it's reminding you of stuff, or is it really more of a "They changed it now it sucks" for you?  Need I remind you that this is actually a very common RPG trope, including things like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Suikoden?  And that GS never did introduce anything new, it just incorporated the old in a very well done manner?

In DD, if the battle ends before Sveta's first Beastform turn is up, she reverts without losing any Djinn. If you were to remove the turn of startup, and make it or similar available to every party member, there'd be no incentive to ever not go super mode.

First turn is the turn of activation.  Basically, you already paid a price - you lost your turn!  That's your penalty!  You never actually got to USE beastform!  Come on, now you're just grasping at straws here!  If everyone goes uber mode, BAM, first turn TOTALLY WASTED, enemies get a free shot at the team, which if insta-death or djinn blast happens, we can all point and laugh at the tactical disaster that was the strategy you employed.

And actually, none of Sveta's Djinn go into recovery until Beastform ends, either until she's taken a number of turns equal to the number of set Djinn she has +1, or until the battle ends. Additionally, standby Djinn do not contribute to Beastform, and so are not sent into recovery when it ends. I'm pretty sure that's how it works, anyway, though I may be mistaken.

You can't use djinn, and it makes sense that standby are totally ignored.  For all intensive purposes, it works exactly as me and leaf said it did.  I fail to see your point.

I'd say that making super forms like Beastform class down over time would be a bad idea, simply because lower-classed versions of Beastform are weaker than her higher-stage normal classes. If she were to class down over time, that would leave her effectively powered-down while still in Beastform, which just doesn't seem right to me.

...What.

Hold on, I need to slap you with the facts.

.             ,-----------------------------------------.
             | MHP | MPP | ATK | DEF | AGL | LUK | TOT |
,-------------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|-----|
|Wild Animal  | 180 |  80 | 280 | 200 | 130 | 110 | 980 | +80 (PB), +100 (Gl)
|Brutal Beast | 210 |  90 | 320 | 220 | 140 | 110 |1090 | +110
|Savage Fiend | 230 | 100 | 360 | 240 | 150 | 110 |1190 | +100
|-------------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|-----|
|Beastling    | 110 | 120 |  90 | 100 | 110 | 110 | 640 |
|Wildrunner   | 130 | 130 | 100 | 110 | 120 | 110 | 700 | +60
|Shapeshifter | 150 | 140 | 110 | 120 | 130 | 110 | 760 | +60
|Beast Master | 170 | 160 | 130 | 130 | 140 | 110 | 840 | +80
|Prime Beast  | 190 | 170 | 140 | 140 | 150 | 110 | 900 | +60
|-------------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|-----|
|Scrapper     |  90 |  80 | 110 | 110 | 120 | 120 | 630 |
|Grappler     | 110 |  90 | 120 | 120 | 130 | 120 | 690 | +60
|Brawler      | 120 | 100 | 130 | 130 | 140 | 120 | 740 | +50
|Bruiser      | 150 | 110 | 140 | 140 | 160 | 120 | 820 | +80 (<_< Why?)
|Gladiator    | 170 | 120 | 150 | 150 | 170 | 120 | 880 | +60
`-------------------------------------------------------'

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit, Jamie.  Don't go spouting crap if it's not true.  I'd also like to point out that Wild Animal has a total of 980 for stats.  Master, the previous holder of "Highest stat total in the game", has 940.  IT'S 40 POINTS STRONGER THAN THE OLD UBERCLASS.  And you can't even claim "Weighted stats" here.  Look at where the bulk of those stats are.  If you claim weighted, then that means Max PP and AGL only have a small influence, likely LUK too.  Which means that it's even stronger than the already large stat gain, especially compared to Master, Wizard, and other high-stat classes (since they have large PP pools are are really freaking fast).  It has a huge stat total, and has it where it counts.  I think I've rest my case here, there's really nothing more that needs to be said.  There's a reason I called these Tier 6, 7, and 8.

Also, fun tidbit... why the hell does Brawler only gain 10% HP, but then Bruiser gains 30% HP?  What's the point?  Why not just do 20/20 like every other standard class line in the game?

[Aile~♥]

Just above, you were arguing to remove the one-turn activation cost. If you did that, people would go super mode every battle. That makes it not a super mode and instead just a battle mode.

Also, you misunderstand. When I say "first Beastform turn", I mean the first turn after activation. If the enemies are defeated by the end of the combat round, Sveta will revert without losing Djinn. If you were to, as you and leaf were arguing for, REMOVE the one-turn activation time, she and any other super-mode characters could instantly mop the floor with the enemy party for nothing more than the super mode's PP cost.

Also, you said earlier "Tales has it be character-specific"; my response to that was "what are you talking about? Overlimit has the same effect on any character", paraphrased for ease of understanding of course, since I didn't phrase it well the first time.

[Rolina]

Except for the fact that I didn't actually argue that in my first post.  I said I personally would like it, but that's just me.  There could be several very valid balance reasons as to why it's not.  Also, I fail to see your point again.  After all, as leaf pointed out, such an effect is easily reproduced via Summon spam, and in fact is actually more efficient at clearing out enemies.  Super Modes only really shine in boss fights, normal fights are just too short to really bother with them.  I mean seriously, using super modes in mook fights is like summoning Iris against Vermin.  Why bother?

As for your tales argument, now that you've clarified... it still doesn't work.  If they're exactly the same for every character, that makes it "universal".  It's not universal the way I proposed - it's limited to a couple characters, and the rest get a few relics to pass around.  There may not even be enough for a full team of eight.  MAYBE enough for a team of 4 or 5.  And even then, each form is unique to the spell that invokes it.  A unique trio of classes, set of stats, duration, spell selection, additional bonuses, etc.  There's nothing "same effect" about it, only same method of activation - via spell.  By the way, when I said character specific for tales, it was very likely incorrect use of terminology.  What I meant was that Overlimit is something caused by the character naturally in battle.  In my proposed system, it's not.  You have to specifically equip something, and there's only one copy of that something.  Only exceptions are when characters actually qualify for that character-specific stuff, where it's innate rather than bestowed.

Also, why are you arguing on behalf of mook battles when those are mopped up through unleashes alone already?  That, and just using the most powerful base damage psys for each of the four characters is enough as well.  You can one-turn those things easy, save maybe for Dark Dawn's Great Dragon, but even he isn't of elite mook level.  Two turns instead of the usual one, whoop-di-doo.  Here's a fun little tidbit - maybe mook battles aren't supposed to be tedious?  Add a bit of difficulty, sure, but don't design them to last more than 2-3 turns tops for the target level.  And don't make them a chore, either.  You don't want to destroy the player's resources before they reach the boss.  You can be sadistic elsewhere, trust me, there's plenty of ways to be mean without downright punishing the player for playing your game.

Finally, you have yet to address my counter on your claim that Wild Animal is "weaker" than some of the more powerful regular classes.  I mean, I just proved it's superior to even the uber-ranked classes like Master and Wizard, and that the cons come from other sources (like, say, 1 turn activation cost, loss of djinn and summon command use, loss of unleashes, etc).

[Aile~♥]

The problem with Summon spam is that if a second random encounter gets you before your Djinn recover, you have a serious problem. Instant activation of super modes would allow you to completely destroy the foe with 300-damage area physical attacks etc. for only 8 PP from each character. Because the battle ended on each character's first acting turn post-transformation, they will not lose any Djinn. And 8 PP really isn't a lot, at all.

Also, I personally think that while random encounters shouldn't last too long, only about 2-3 turns, with maybe 6 turns for an elite foe, they should definitely have a lasting impact on your party. You're going to end up using your herbs and healing Psynergy on, or at least after, random battles, so stocking khiren waters and/or psy crystals for boss prep is probably not a bad idea.

[leaf]

If beastform went into effect t1, obviously it would also deduct a djinni that turn, too. Although it wouldn't really matter for much the same reasons as...

The problem with Summon spam is that if a second random encounter gets you before your Djinn recover, you have a serious problem.

I cannot say I have ever had this problem. Random encounters are spaced well enough that you can almost always recover your djinn in time. Just don't try to overwork a single character's djinn and you'll be fine.

[Rolina]

I also have to counter with my last post.  Here, let me quote myself.  I'll make the parts that debunk your claim bold, just to rub it in.

Except for the fact that I didn't actually argue that in my first post.  I said I personally would like it, but that's just me.  There could be several very valid balance reasons as to why it's not.  Also, I fail to see your point again.  After all, as leaf pointed out, such an effect is easily reproduced via Summon spam, and in fact is actually more efficient at clearing out enemies.  Super Modes only really shine in boss fights, normal fights are just too short to really bother with them.  I mean seriously, using super modes in mook fights is like summoning Iris against Vermin.  Why bother?

As for your tales argument, now that you've clarified... it still doesn't work.  If they're exactly the same for every character, that makes it "universal".  It's not universal the way I proposed - it's limited to a couple characters, and the rest get a few relics to pass around.  There may not even be enough for a full team of eight.  MAYBE enough for a team of 4 or 5.  And even then, each form is unique to the spell that invokes it.  A unique trio of classes, set of stats, duration, spell selection, additional bonuses, etc.  There's nothing "same effect" about it, only same method of activation - via spell.  By the way, when I said character specific for tales, it was very likely incorrect use of terminology.  What I meant was that Overlimit is something caused by the character naturally in battle.  In my proposed system, it's not.  You have to specifically equip something, and there's only one copy of that something.  Only exceptions are when characters actually qualify for that character-specific stuff, where it's innate rather than bestowed.

Also, why are you arguing on behalf of mook battles when those are mopped up through unleashes alone already?  That, and just using the most powerful base damage psys for each of the four characters is enough as well.  You can one-turn those things easy, save maybe for Dark Dawn's Great Dragon, but even he isn't of elite mook level.  Two turns instead of the usual one, whoop-di-doo.  Here's a fun little tidbit - maybe mook battles aren't supposed to be tedious?  Add a bit of difficulty, sure, but don't design them to last more than 2-3 turns tops for the target level.  And don't make them a chore, either.  You don't want to destroy the player's resources before they reach the boss.  You can be sadistic elsewhere, trust me, there's plenty of ways to be mean without downright punishing the player for playing your game.

Finally, you have yet to address my counter on your claim that Wild Animal is "weaker" than some of the more powerful regular classes.  I mean, I just proved it's superior to even the uber-ranked classes like Master and Wizard, and that the cons come from other sources (like, say, 1 turn activation cost, loss of djinn and summon command use, loss of unleashes, etc).

Base damage is often derided as weak, Jamie.  And yet when a team uses their strongest base damage spells on a group of foes, it'll die.  Won't even last to the second turn usually.  So long as the player doesn't go into an area way above their level, this never changes.  You have no argument if even the supposedly weak base damage can accomplish this.

[Aile~♥]

Yes, but Base Damage tends to cost a hefty chunk of PP each time. That's my point. It's not so much about how fast you can kill a group of foes, it's about how much it costs you to do so. If you're not over-levelled, almost every random encounter should have a slight but lasting impact on your party. They're there to grind you down before the boss, after all. Otherwise, what's the point? What's the point of tiny two-second battles that can't even be considered fights? That's what I wanna know.

[leaf]

Legacy. It's expected within the genre. It also gives the characters a way to grow between boss fights.

[Aile~♥]

I personally want to see lower encounter rates than GS2, I think DD had the encounter rates about right. But in exchange, I want to see tougher random encounters, foes who will actually fight you. Foes who present a challenge at target level. I just think encounters should actually serve SOME purpose. I know that in GS1, later in the game, the foes actually got to be relatively challenging, especially in large numbers. Venus Lighthouse was a nightmare to get through, between my not knowing my way through the dungeon and the foes being relatively tough.

Because in all honesty, having short, tedious random encounters that serve no purpose but to level the characters up and give them money just seems stupid.

[Rolina]

I think this boils down to a disagreement in the actual approach to the game itself, rather than having anything to do with the mode itself.  Jamie, all of your arguments have been based on how you personally would change the game, however...

I'm not talking about hacks here.

I'm hypothesizing how Camelot might do something like this.  I'm looking at this with the expectation that we'll be getting much of the same stuff going on with battle difficulty, and wondering how this might work.  If you don't like this, that's fine, but you arguing that this "isn't needed" is kinda... not really a good point here.  After all, neither was weapon proficiency, or beastform itself.

I'm guessing at where they might go from here, and guessing how they might implement it.  I'm not posting this in the hacking section, if you haven't noticed.  So this begs the question... Why are you arguing so vehemently for your own personal game design approach?  I mean, everyone has their own approach - mine is formulaic, Leaf's got his weighted system...  And before this, you argued it's "too tales" to which I countered, then "too DBZ" to which I dismissed as a non-argument, then the claim of "it's a downgrade from classes if it diminishes!" to which I proved wrong, and now to "I don't agree with it because of my personal game design approach!".

I mean, seriously Jamie?  What's the real reason here?  You keep changing it often enough, and you keep using arguments that just don't work.  PP regens too fast for it to wear out, and now we have common PP regen items and djinn, so you can't even use "AHA, the psynergy is taxing!"  I really don't understand your view here, because all of your points so far have been non-issues.  What's your real angle?

[Aile~♥]

I suppose I don't have any real issue with it, except that it seems somewhat un-GS-like, if that makes any sense.

I do have an issue with how random encounters get easier with every game in the series, however.

[Rolina]

Well, I'll give you that.  But what part of Dark Dawn felt GS like?  Light and Dark are things now, for example.  Not just symbols, but actual things.  Battles didn't have the same impact, and many of the iconic spells are all... well, look at what they did to the Plasma line!  That's unforgivable! T_T

As for the random encounters, they're actually harder in DD.  It's just that you get too strong too fast - power growth is poorly paced.  Compare an inepts run of TLA to DD and DD's actually a bit tougher.

Anywho, with Beastmode actually being something fun they introduced, I can see them expanding this slowly for other characters - just, not in the same way.  Beastmode was innate, but that should be rare-to-unheardof.  I think that treating these items like you would the class changing items would be the proper approach, the one they'd be more likely to take.  Who knows, we'll see in the future I guess.

[Rolina]

After looking up stats in the wiki, I take the above post back.  Not only are enemies of equal level much weaker in DD, they're also giving out 2-3 times the XP their previous counterparts did.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.