Idea I thought up....

[leaf]

If beastform went into effect t1, obviously it would also deduct a djinni that turn, too. Although it wouldn't really matter for much the same reasons as...

The problem with Summon spam is that if a second random encounter gets you before your Djinn recover, you have a serious problem.

I cannot say I have ever had this problem. Random encounters are spaced well enough that you can almost always recover your djinn in time. Just don't try to overwork a single character's djinn and you'll be fine.

[Rolina]

I also have to counter with my last post.  Here, let me quote myself.  I'll make the parts that debunk your claim bold, just to rub it in.

Except for the fact that I didn't actually argue that in my first post.  I said I personally would like it, but that's just me.  There could be several very valid balance reasons as to why it's not.  Also, I fail to see your point again.  After all, as leaf pointed out, such an effect is easily reproduced via Summon spam, and in fact is actually more efficient at clearing out enemies.  Super Modes only really shine in boss fights, normal fights are just too short to really bother with them.  I mean seriously, using super modes in mook fights is like summoning Iris against Vermin.  Why bother?

As for your tales argument, now that you've clarified... it still doesn't work.  If they're exactly the same for every character, that makes it "universal".  It's not universal the way I proposed - it's limited to a couple characters, and the rest get a few relics to pass around.  There may not even be enough for a full team of eight.  MAYBE enough for a team of 4 or 5.  And even then, each form is unique to the spell that invokes it.  A unique trio of classes, set of stats, duration, spell selection, additional bonuses, etc.  There's nothing "same effect" about it, only same method of activation - via spell.  By the way, when I said character specific for tales, it was very likely incorrect use of terminology.  What I meant was that Overlimit is something caused by the character naturally in battle.  In my proposed system, it's not.  You have to specifically equip something, and there's only one copy of that something.  Only exceptions are when characters actually qualify for that character-specific stuff, where it's innate rather than bestowed.

Also, why are you arguing on behalf of mook battles when those are mopped up through unleashes alone already?  That, and just using the most powerful base damage psys for each of the four characters is enough as well.  You can one-turn those things easy, save maybe for Dark Dawn's Great Dragon, but even he isn't of elite mook level.  Two turns instead of the usual one, whoop-di-doo.  Here's a fun little tidbit - maybe mook battles aren't supposed to be tedious?  Add a bit of difficulty, sure, but don't design them to last more than 2-3 turns tops for the target level.  And don't make them a chore, either.  You don't want to destroy the player's resources before they reach the boss.  You can be sadistic elsewhere, trust me, there's plenty of ways to be mean without downright punishing the player for playing your game.

Finally, you have yet to address my counter on your claim that Wild Animal is "weaker" than some of the more powerful regular classes.  I mean, I just proved it's superior to even the uber-ranked classes like Master and Wizard, and that the cons come from other sources (like, say, 1 turn activation cost, loss of djinn and summon command use, loss of unleashes, etc).

Base damage is often derided as weak, Jamie.  And yet when a team uses their strongest base damage spells on a group of foes, it'll die.  Won't even last to the second turn usually.  So long as the player doesn't go into an area way above their level, this never changes.  You have no argument if even the supposedly weak base damage can accomplish this.

[Aile~♥]

Yes, but Base Damage tends to cost a hefty chunk of PP each time. That's my point. It's not so much about how fast you can kill a group of foes, it's about how much it costs you to do so. If you're not over-levelled, almost every random encounter should have a slight but lasting impact on your party. They're there to grind you down before the boss, after all. Otherwise, what's the point? What's the point of tiny two-second battles that can't even be considered fights? That's what I wanna know.

[leaf]

Legacy. It's expected within the genre. It also gives the characters a way to grow between boss fights.

[Aile~♥]

I personally want to see lower encounter rates than GS2, I think DD had the encounter rates about right. But in exchange, I want to see tougher random encounters, foes who will actually fight you. Foes who present a challenge at target level. I just think encounters should actually serve SOME purpose. I know that in GS1, later in the game, the foes actually got to be relatively challenging, especially in large numbers. Venus Lighthouse was a nightmare to get through, between my not knowing my way through the dungeon and the foes being relatively tough.

Because in all honesty, having short, tedious random encounters that serve no purpose but to level the characters up and give them money just seems stupid.

[Rolina]

I think this boils down to a disagreement in the actual approach to the game itself, rather than having anything to do with the mode itself.  Jamie, all of your arguments have been based on how you personally would change the game, however...

I'm not talking about hacks here.

I'm hypothesizing how Camelot might do something like this.  I'm looking at this with the expectation that we'll be getting much of the same stuff going on with battle difficulty, and wondering how this might work.  If you don't like this, that's fine, but you arguing that this "isn't needed" is kinda... not really a good point here.  After all, neither was weapon proficiency, or beastform itself.

I'm guessing at where they might go from here, and guessing how they might implement it.  I'm not posting this in the hacking section, if you haven't noticed.  So this begs the question... Why are you arguing so vehemently for your own personal game design approach?  I mean, everyone has their own approach - mine is formulaic, Leaf's got his weighted system...  And before this, you argued it's "too tales" to which I countered, then "too DBZ" to which I dismissed as a non-argument, then the claim of "it's a downgrade from classes if it diminishes!" to which I proved wrong, and now to "I don't agree with it because of my personal game design approach!".

I mean, seriously Jamie?  What's the real reason here?  You keep changing it often enough, and you keep using arguments that just don't work.  PP regens too fast for it to wear out, and now we have common PP regen items and djinn, so you can't even use "AHA, the psynergy is taxing!"  I really don't understand your view here, because all of your points so far have been non-issues.  What's your real angle?

[Aile~♥]

I suppose I don't have any real issue with it, except that it seems somewhat un-GS-like, if that makes any sense.

I do have an issue with how random encounters get easier with every game in the series, however.

[Rolina]

Well, I'll give you that.  But what part of Dark Dawn felt GS like?  Light and Dark are things now, for example.  Not just symbols, but actual things.  Battles didn't have the same impact, and many of the iconic spells are all... well, look at what they did to the Plasma line!  That's unforgivable! T_T

As for the random encounters, they're actually harder in DD.  It's just that you get too strong too fast - power growth is poorly paced.  Compare an inepts run of TLA to DD and DD's actually a bit tougher.

Anywho, with Beastmode actually being something fun they introduced, I can see them expanding this slowly for other characters - just, not in the same way.  Beastmode was innate, but that should be rare-to-unheardof.  I think that treating these items like you would the class changing items would be the proper approach, the one they'd be more likely to take.  Who knows, we'll see in the future I guess.

[Rolina]

After looking up stats in the wiki, I take the above post back.  Not only are enemies of equal level much weaker in DD, they're also giving out 2-3 times the XP their previous counterparts did.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.