Psynergy Variation suggestion

[Rolina]

I'm considering having a fourth tier for attack spells in some of my hacks, but not in the traditional way of thinking of a 4th tier.

Rather than being a tier above 3rd tier, it'd be a tier roughly equal to it, only with a different focus.  For example...

Ice (ST, 35 POW, 5 PP)
Ice Horn (3T, 70 POW, 11 PP)
Ice Missile (3T, 160 POW, 23 PP)
Ice Storm (5T, 140 POW, 23 PP)

When a class that learns the Ice line gets its 3rd tier of that spell line, it can either get Ice Missile or Ice Storm.  Ice Missile is stronger, but more focused.  Ice Storm is a bit weaker, but hits a wider area.  It'd be an easy way to keep classes different, even though many of them share spell lines - just by having them learn different versions of that final spell, it mixes things up a bit.  Another example?

Fume (ST, 50 POW, 6 PP)
Serpent Fume (ST, 130 POW, 14 PP)
Dragon Fume (ST, 230 POW, 35 PP)
Wyrm Fume (3TD, 210 POW, 33 PP)

Wow, GS really has Dragon Fume overpriced if it costs more than Grand Gaia...  Anywho, that's another example.  A bit weaker, but damages the foes on either side of the target with diminishing damage.

There's a lot of potential with this type of spell variety, so it's up to y'all to decide if you wanna use it or not.

[Griever]

A really nice idea, like you said will keep classes different.
I take it, the difference in classes will be related to characters right? If two characters can be the same class, one will get the focused version of the spell while  the other will get the more spread one.

For some reason I always thought that Dragon Fume is 32 not 35 PP ... strange.

My vote is on using it.

[leaf]

Huh. Reminds me of the strike/technique arte split in ToS.

[Rolina]

A really nice idea, like you said will keep classes different.
I take it, the difference in classes will be related to characters right? If two characters can be the same class, one will get the focused version of the spell while  the other will get the more spread one.

For some reason I always thought that Dragon Fume is 32 not 35 PP ... strange.

My vote is on using it.

Well, it's kinda like this:

The Growth Line is attained both by the Brute and the Seer lines, right?  Well, for the Seer line I'd go ahead and give it Wild Growth as the tier 3.  But for the Brute line, I'd give it Frenzy Growth instead.  It'd have only a range of 3, but it'd do a little more damage as well.

Basically, I see it as less character oriented, and more class oriented.  They'd have the same animation argument and psynergy icon, as they're both Tier 3, but depending on what better fits the thematics of the class, that'd determine which version of the tier 3 spell they'd get.  So rather than actually being a Tier 4/5 spell, it'd be more like 3B/3C/etc.

It's not just range you can use for the split, either.  If a class is known for debuffs, for example, you could have a Vile Growth instead, which still only hits 3, but perhaps can lower agility as well.  It's something to think about for sure, as I'm sure a lot of you would have fun implementing such a thing.  It's very little work to do, and we can pull it off now if we want to no sweat.

Also note the placement of the topic - this is a general suggestion, not a suggestion for the community hack itself.  Anyone who wants to adopt this is free to do so, it's just an idea I had that I think merits sharing with everyone.  If DCrisis wants to use it, more power to them.  But they don't have to, either.

[Durza]

Seems like a good idea, but wouldn't Dragon Fume be better as the caster equivalent of the EPAs? It's kind of pointless once you learn it normally, since more can be achieved with cheaper psynergies.

@Griever, it's 32 in Dark Dawn and 35 in TLA I think.

[Rolina]

It'd have to be converted to a Caster-type Added Damage, thus Max PP powered by our system.  1-1-1 Range, while technically allowable, is impractical as hell for base damage when you use Variation.

[Aile~♥]

Not necessarily. It works fine as long as enemy defences are balanced.

[Rolina]

Not what I meant.  Basically, this the base damage version a bit under-powered compared to other spells.  Even with the 230 power, the overall damage makes it a bit weak compared to other, similarly powered spells (Tier 3 Advanced Lines).  Changing this to a Caster-style Added Damage fixes the problem for the most part.

[zman9000]

I had this same thought a while ago, but after thinking about it, why not just make a whole new line or power instead of just having the same attack with slightly different effect. should still take up the same space. Or you could also have a 4th tier for one or two power lines. just having a slight variation of an attack seems kinda wasteful of space.

[Rolina]

...How is three-six more skills taking up less space than 1-2 new skills?

[zman9000]

No i mean that if you are wanting new attacks why not get rid of an old attack and remake it how you want, this way you can have more different power lines and still have all the new content you could get.

besides having variations means depending on what you pick you may not have access to a certain wanted ability making certain play styles suffer.

This is just my thoughts on this, if you don't agree, well, whatever.
I just don't feel having a 4th tier or some alternate 3rd tier will work as well as you ate thinking.

[Rolina]

...You do realize that the whole point of this thread was to find a solution where you didn't have to do that, right?  We don't have unlimited ability slots, after all.  Some people also may not want to change things too drastically.  What if all you want to do is a remix hack?  Axing and replacing entire lines with new things kind of defeats the point - it may be a better idea to just change the last spell to better match the theme of the class, that way you have it both new and familiar at the same time.