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Author Topic: Ailment and Debuff Formulas  (Read 16853 times)
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Rolina
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« on: October 06, 2012, 01:00:49 PM »

We've got ideas about what formulas to use for everything but ailment and debuff success rates.  All we know is that luck is involved.

For those of you who've been looking around in the code, have you found anything related to this at all?  If not... care to start looking for it?  Understanding how ailments work is preeeety important if we ever want to add new ones or try to balance them by tweaking success rates.
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 01:47:51 PM »

It's also known that relative power of user vs target in the element of the debuff/ailment used is involved, and that classes/enemies have weaknesses to certain effects. That won't do much good without any actual values, though.

Sala might have known something about it, iirc he was the one to bring up the weakness thing, and possibly the involvement of elemental power/resistance as well. Again, that won't do us much good.

This is probably the first thing I'm going to look into once I figure out how, ailments and debuffs are almost completely useless as it stands.
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Rolina
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 08:41:18 AM »

Well, if Sala did know something, then hopefully Jamie or Teawater could see if could share what he knows - or anyone else at the lighthouse, I imagine.
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 11:13:18 PM »

Relevant:
http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=1632.0

Sala says he doesn't have much else though.
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Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Rolina
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 08:00:33 AM »

Well, that at least points us in the right general area to look at least.  Still, if I'm to put up a pseudocode guestimate of what the formula looks like, it'd be this:

Base Chance - (luck + individual resistance)

Hopefully, we can find out a more accurate representation.  Specifically, the base chances for each ailment, plus the specific influence luck holds.  Is it that each point in luck is a 1% drop in chance, or perhaps is it weighted, or... well, who knows?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 11:59:29 AM by Rolina » Logged

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Fox
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 11:47:12 AM »

That topic doesn't say anything about the Ailment/Debuff formulas.

This seems to include the vulnerabilities in the class and enemy banks.

The potential code for this is around 080B0A1C = I think this is where luck is grabbed. And a glance down to 080B0A36 being x19 (a.k.a 25 in decimal) shows me how all this is bundled together. I think I shall look into exactly what this formula is soon...

Edit after Rolina's post:  Research should probably be placed on the entire function:  080B075C - 080B0A8E.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 12:04:54 PM by Teawater » Logged

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Rolina
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 11:59:00 AM »

This seems to include the vulnerabilities in the class and enemy banks.
Which, if my guess is right, is part of the formula.  Plus, it helps us when it comes to figuring out where to look.  Still, the more we can figure out the better, so anything you can find should help.

Right now, my guess is that each effect has a different base success rate - not just ailments, but all of them.  If we could locate where those are stored, I'm sure that'd help quite a lot as well.
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 12:16:59 PM »

From when I remember studying vulnerabilities last time, I believe the base percentages were hard coded in this function: 080B0514 ; So editing them is not exactly straight-forward, especially since some of those numbers can be used for multiple effects as seen by the branching pattern.
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Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

May the force be with you!
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Maybe that's the wrong kind of force. *smirk*
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Rolina
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 12:46:33 PM »

Regardless, knowing and writing down how it works is important.  Plus, I'd also like to get this done for GSU so that they have a comprehensive list in the wiki.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 12:55:46 PM by Rolina » Logged

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Fox
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 03:52:55 PM »

It looks like there's a part of the code where if defender's luck is 40+, about 8 of the effects are given a chance of 0%. (For example, x18 and x19 (May Inflict Poison/Venom)

Effect's can also have a base chance without a formula (When their numbers are negative ), but when the formula is used (x0-x64), I think it looks like this: Not sure if I made any mistakes.

success =
(((((((Attacker's elemental level - Defender's elemental level) - Floor(Defender's luck / 2)) * 3) + effect's base chance + (vulnerabity's 25)) * diminishing%) / 100)  >= rnd())

diminishing% = The direct target is 100, with this lowering for enemies further away.

Notes:
x52 = "82 - May force target out of battle" is always 0% when class is not NPC. (0% for player characters?)

These generate three random numbers... This would make, for example, a chance of 50% (one) to be 87.5% (three), I think.
x43 = "67 - Inflicts Seal"
x50 = "80 - Inflicts Death Curse"
x55 = "85 - May inflict Stun"

Hopefully I didn't get anything backwards or messed up. I've only looked at the stuff from 080B08C2 and down, but there may be some stuff above this address that may have conditions for when this formula is skipped.

Where attacker and defender labels are placed are just assumed, I didn't double check them, but it wouldn't make much sense otherwise.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 01:32:55 PM by Teawater »
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 06:56:53 AM by Fox » Logged

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Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

May the force be with you!
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Rolina
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 05:02:33 PM »

Wait, element level has influence?  Wow, that was unexpected.  Keep up the good work.
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2012, 05:15:42 PM »

Yes, it appears it is just elemental level, though.  I didn't see anything on elemental power or resistance. (I'm assuming power/resistance just means how much damage is taken/given.)

P.S. =  I forgot to congratulate you on you 5000th post.  Congratulations!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 05:36:45 PM by Teawater » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

May the force be with you!
Shoo! Why does it smell in here?
Maybe that's the wrong kind of force. *smirk*
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Rolina
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 02:50:39 PM »

Well, that's certainly interesting.  Completely unexpected, too.  I actually like that, to be honest.
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2012, 01:19:22 AM »

I guess the chance that one may recover randomly from an ailment/debuff applies to this topic as well...

Formula located at: 08124810

Note: 5 or less turns must remain for this chance to be used.

(((Luck * 3) - (Turns * 5) + base_chance) * 655) >= rand()

Random number is 16-bit (Up to xFFFF)
If chance was 100% and you multiplied by 655, you'd get xFFDC.  Evidently, 656 would make x10040.



Base chances of recovering from an ailment, etc:

Attack = 30%
Defense = 20%
Resistance = 20%
Delusion = 30%
Confuse = 60%
Charm = 70%
Stun = 20%
Sleep = 50%
Psy-seal = 30%

I think that's all of them.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 03:31:45 AM by Teawater » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

May the force be with you!
Shoo! Why does it smell in here?
Maybe that's the wrong kind of force. *smirk*
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Rolina
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2012, 05:17:41 AM »

Oh, so it's not a flat turn rate?  Intersting...  Thanks for the find.  So luck isn't just ailment resist, it's ailment recovery as well...
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June 17, 2019, 01:49:41 PM
Salanewt: Two weird posts about hacking in a week.
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Fox: This place is depressingly too quiet.
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Fox: I wonder if Atrius would be interested in how my map editor would be shaping up... even if it is a bit.... messy.  - As for Textcomp being compatible with more games.... maybe some day = I would like to do that...., but it isn't on my priority list right now, unfortunately. :(   
May 29, 2019, 10:55:32 PM
KyleRunner: Fox, could you, please, make your Textcomp compatible with more games (Mario Golf and Tennis)? 
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Caledor: I released a patch that does just that. It's in the download section
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ryancaesar12345: and how to change a elemtal color like steam normal violet change to blue?
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ryancaesar12345: i saw in reloaded too many icon replace or changes and shade and flash decrease block damage 60 and 90 to 50 and 60 i think summon % hp damage decrease class separation change the treasure items the effects are change 
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May 25, 2019, 02:12:36 PM
Fox: "overwritting it" I mean the data in the buffer... not the originally file you loaded. - That only ever gets overwriting via the Save/Save As buttons.)
May 25, 2019, 02:07:44 PM
Fox: That being said, any newer version made, won't necessarily be compatible to an older version of gsmagic. It all depends on what I do.
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Fox: The way I have it now - there's a bit of a space limitation for world map editing... that if the data covers more than what it originally does, it will let you know... (Although, it may only tell you after already overwriting it.) - So I'll need to eventually do fixes for that. But as this is an experiment editor, I'm still willing to release partial completions at times... for sake of concept,
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Fox: (The absolute latest version of my editor is WIP/has not been released.... and I was hoping to feature World Map tilemap editing.)
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Fox: (Careful with some editors though.... as you'll need to understand GBA is little endian... so some hex editors might show the data as Big Endian.... basically little endian is reverse bytes. (so AA BB CC DD as 8-bit/bytes.... becomes DDCCBBAA as a 32-bit)
May 25, 2019, 01:51:30 PM
Fox: tla editor... bt rather... to google for a hex editor... such as HxD, Windhex, Hex Editor Neo, etc... and use that.... Or you could just do it in VBA's memory viewer for temporary edits. (You can still save the ROM section by saving a dump, and changing from .dmp to .gba, though... but that takes a bit to explain.)
May 25, 2019, 01:49:40 PM
Fox: I thought maybe I would need to clarify.  - gsmagic is my experiment editor.  It can be found on this forum. (e.g. http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2805.0 has it, but is not the latest version of my editor.) ; Those patches - applying them is for making them easier to edit via a hex editor.... Since originally it is done in assembly... a bit of a mess for editing.... , so those patches turn that data into table(s).... ; When I say "hex editor" = No, I don't mean to use the 
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ryancaesar12345: i dont understand a thing simple success rate and simple summon  .ips files how to understand? by patch in original rom and view in gs tla editor?
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ryancaesar12345: gsmagic? what is that and is that a editor where i can download that?
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Foxhttp://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=59 = And the Simple Summons thing... (Hex editor experience expected..) ... For all three of the hex editor experience stuff... I mean just basic knowledge should be enough to get by.

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