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Author Topic: Perception  (Read 8433 times)
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zman9000
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« on: December 06, 2012, 11:45:34 PM »

I noticed something really weird while falling asleep listening to a song. just as I started to fall asleep the sound suddenly sped up really fast where I was startled, woke up, and the song when back to normal.

I remembered that you can have a day long dream in a few hours and thinking about this I realized something. perception is a thing that generally doesn't change but...
Can you be sure everyone has the same perception of time? And not with just time but what about color, and sound, and taste?
There are people who have their senses messed up and can taste sound, and hear a color, and feel a taste.
since this much is possible, it is also possible to the person that things aren't the same from person to person.

think of it like this.
there's two guys
one sees red as red, blue as blue, and green as green.
the other sees red as red, blue as green, and green as blue.

when the first guy sees red then blue then green he says "red then blue then green"
when the other guy sees red then blue then green he says "red then blue then green"

even though the color isn't the same for the two people they have been taught what is blue and what is not, meaning each person may see the same colors differently.
you could say that you see light thus it has to be that color, but you forget that the light hits sensors in your eyes and takes that information to the brain where it is interpreted and used as sight. So if people can get their senses crossed doesn't that mean single senses could be flipped?

What do you think about this, and even if it is true could we ever find out? because its based on perception can you really find the difference in the same things between the same people?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 11:47:56 PM by zman9000 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 12:27:48 AM »

People seeing colors differently could already be confirmed from people who are color blind, I think.

And if I remember correctly, I think animals/birds/etc.might also see colors in a different way as well...? Hmm... (I forget if they just view them brighter or not or what... but eh...?) I'm thinking about something from way back when I was in elementary school, so who knows...

I never thought people could see colors in a different way besides being color blind... Hmm..

I suppose it is worth looking up.
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 04:01:53 AM »

 I figure theres some things people shouldnt know if but it deosnt mean we shouldnt stop searching but humanity needs to learn when to stop after all most humans use a small portion of theyre brains like some super genius probably uses 10% max ,some theroize that if we learn to use more thing like psycics or even super powers like flying super strength would be avilable to every one, imagine the choas that would cuase
      but the percption is intersting to like try looking at some that repeats a movement or pattern even the snow flakes on screen right now if i look closely they seem to slow down but if i just glance they seem fine some one else might think they speed up when looking thats just based on the individual  like the color blind example zman put we cant really know if some thing wrong usaully cuase that person thinks it normal but color blindness is something that can be tested for they just run a few tests on the retna of the eye for that
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 07:43:17 PM »

The thing is other then being color blind which is just you can't tell the difference between red and green. but I'm saying what if you were born with the ability to see one color as another color and vise-verse. you could be looking at the same thing seeing it differently, but call it the same color. like what if that I see as red you see as my blue, but since its always been that way you would call that red because its red, it just mentally looks different.

This means you can't figure out if this is true or not. its not so much can we figure this out since yo can't, its more just interesting to think since it could be fact but wouldn't have any meaning unless you were to body swap with someone. and that would be the only way to tell.
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 08:10:42 PM »

actually the retna in the eye have differnt types each type reacts to a specific collor if they flash blue light and the red one responds thats how they know
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2012, 08:19:01 PM »

Yes but you are missing the major issue. That information is then converted and sent to the brain where it is processed. and the brain shows what color is what meaning some one with some kinda defect in their visual cortex might show red as blue and blue as red, but they would never know what they see is different because they always have seen blue as red and so it doesn't matter.

its not a matter of the eye its a matter of the brain, remember that what you see enters the brain upside down and it corrects for that. so a defect could do the something like mixing up colors.
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2012, 08:22:55 PM »

that how they know actually they can decipher those signal and your brain wves to determine what happens so yes that can be tested for :p
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2012, 08:30:24 PM »

No not yet. maybe in 20 years yeah, but they still don't have a clear enough picture of the human brain to get images off it let alone colored clear pictures. there have been cases that they were able to for a split second get a good picture off a brain but it was black/white and not detailed.
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2012, 08:36:58 PM »

well they can decipher enough already to test for that and they dont need colored images they just need to see how the brain react and where normaly and in the testee they can also test for mental disorders with CAT scans and stuuf like that  this is a subject i know alot about cuase i have Aspergers syndrome ADHD And im somewhat BiPolar so :P agian
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2012, 09:06:56 PM »

This is something that I have thought about myself before. There already exist people who are colorblind, and some people are more sensitive to shades of color than others. Therefore, I see no reason why it would not be impossible for people to see different shades of color entirely.

Although, it would be rather difficult to prove this, since anyone viewing the colors that others see will visualize them as the colors in their spectrum. Still, as you said, perhaps in about twenty years or so we may find out.
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2012, 10:26:49 PM »

@mercurylighthouse
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Aspergers syndrome ADHD
everyone on this site has some form of that stuff.

Quote
well they can decipher enough already to test for that and they dont need colored images they just need to see how the brain react and where normaly and in the testee they can also test for mental disorders with CAT scans and stuuf like that
Actually you are wrong, we don't yet have the detail to tell the specific area in the sight part of the brain to tell which color is which. I'll ask you to look into this some what before you comment back only because you are claiming things that aren't true and it takes me forever to explain why.

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Although, it would be rather difficult to prove this, since anyone viewing the colors that others see will visualize them as the colors in their spectrum. Still, as you said, perhaps in about twenty years or so we may find out.
Ah I see you know what I'm trying to explain. though I understand why mercurylighthouse doesn't understand as the way to explain this is rather complicated.

O and I only say 20 years because of the anime Sword art online which takes place in 2022 and the first virtual reality game comes out and it kinda has to do with this kinda stuff... lol (though 20 years is s somewhat realistic time for us to map the human brain.)
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 02:09:05 AM »

Can you be sure everyone has the same perception of time? And not with just time but what about color, and sound, and taste?
There are people who have their senses messed up and can taste sound, and hear a color, and feel a taste.
since this much is possible, it is also possible to the person that things aren't the same from person to person.

you could say that you see light thus it has to be that color, but you forget that the light hits sensors in your eyes and takes that information to the brain where it is interpreted and used as sight. So if people can get their senses crossed doesn't that mean single senses could be flipped?

What do you think about this, and even if it is true could we ever find out? because its based on perception can you really find the difference in the same things between the same people?

 Neutral The many ways people keep track of time generally the same, but the way they perceive it can be different.  A child waiting in line with a parent for an hour might consider the wait to be longer than it actually is when compared to the parent.  Despite the difference of their perception an hour is still an hour.

 Neutral You sort of answered the question.  Light bounces off of objects allowing us to take it in through our eyes and see color.  The minutiae of the eyes and the brain can change the levels of each color taken in thus giving people different, or very similar, perceptions of light.  The actual amount of color from light reflected or absorbed remains the same.

 Neutral There are plenty of examples around you.  Sound can serve as another example.  The shape of your ears, and the environment around you, effect the sound-waves detected by them.  Even if two people had the same pair of ears their brains can react differently to the same sound.  That's one of the reasons why people favor different types of music.
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 09:59:51 AM »

People seeing colors differently could already be confirmed from people who are color blind, I think.

And if I remember correctly, I think animals/birds/etc.might also see colors in a different way as well...? Hmm... (I forget if they just view them brighter or not or what... but eh...?) I'm thinking about something from way back when I was in elementary school, so who knows...

I never thought people could see colors in a different way besides being color blind... Hmm..

I suppose it is worth looking up.

Interesting topic. When a cat appeared in my life, I was interested why she sits so long near a window. What does she see? So I researched this issue. The answer is that she sees almost nothing:)) Cats cannot see more than 8 metres away. And she perceives colors more brightly. So, basically, you are right. All species have different color perception.
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2018, 09:16:42 PM »

If we're just talking about species...
A question: How about monkeys? How much different do they see compared to humans? (Thinking of the theory of evolution, that I'm not convinced about... well, the one where humans were first monkeys...)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 09:23:24 PM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

May the force be with you!
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June 16, 2019, 06:54:57 AM
Fox: This place is depressingly too quiet.
June 03, 2019, 07:55:18 PM
Fox: I wonder if Atrius would be interested in how my map editor would be shaping up... even if it is a bit.... messy.  - As for Textcomp being compatible with more games.... maybe some day = I would like to do that...., but it isn't on my priority list right now, unfortunately. :(   
May 29, 2019, 10:55:32 PM
KyleRunner: Fox, could you, please, make your Textcomp compatible with more games (Mario Golf and Tennis)? 
May 27, 2019, 10:10:08 PM
Caledor: I released a patch that does just that. It's in the download section
May 26, 2019, 04:47:43 AM
ryancaesar12345: and how to change a elemtal color like steam normal violet change to blue?
May 25, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
ryancaesar12345: i saw in reloaded too many icon replace or changes and shade and flash decrease block damage 60 and 90 to 50 and 60 i think summon % hp damage decrease class separation change the treasure items the effects are change 
May 25, 2019, 02:22:15 PM
Fox: Another thing about the Separation Patch and why we need PC based class type charts = With Atrius's patch = If you set all eLevels to 0, ... then when you get djinn of just one type, and each PC becomes something... well... Jenna/Piers would have the same base classes as Felix/Sheba... ... but this is concept-wise to show that something may be given up.....
May 25, 2019, 02:12:36 PM
Fox: "overwritting it" I mean the data in the buffer... not the originally file you loaded. - That only ever gets overwriting via the Save/Save As buttons.)
May 25, 2019, 02:07:44 PM
Fox: That being said, any newer version made, won't necessarily be compatible to an older version of gsmagic. It all depends on what I do.
May 25, 2019, 02:04:52 PM
Fox: The way I have it now - there's a bit of a space limitation for world map editing... that if the data covers more than what it originally does, it will let you know... (Although, it may only tell you after already overwriting it.) - So I'll need to eventually do fixes for that. But as this is an experiment editor, I'm still willing to release partial completions at times... for sake of concept,
May 25, 2019, 01:59:36 PM
Fox: (The absolute latest version of my editor is WIP/has not been released.... and I was hoping to feature World Map tilemap editing.)
May 25, 2019, 01:55:00 PM
Fox: (Careful with some editors though.... as you'll need to understand GBA is little endian... so some hex editors might show the data as Big Endian.... basically little endian is reverse bytes. (so AA BB CC DD as 8-bit/bytes.... becomes DDCCBBAA as a 32-bit)
May 25, 2019, 01:51:30 PM
Fox: tla editor... bt rather... to google for a hex editor... such as HxD, Windhex, Hex Editor Neo, etc... and use that.... Or you could just do it in VBA's memory viewer for temporary edits. (You can still save the ROM section by saving a dump, and changing from .dmp to .gba, though... but that takes a bit to explain.)
May 25, 2019, 01:49:40 PM
Fox: I thought maybe I would need to clarify.  - gsmagic is my experiment editor.  It can be found on this forum. (e.g. http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2805.0 has it, but is not the latest version of my editor.) ; Those patches - applying them is for making them easier to edit via a hex editor.... Since originally it is done in assembly... a bit of a mess for editing.... , so those patches turn that data into table(s).... ; When I say "hex editor" = No, I don't mean to use the 
May 25, 2019, 01:27:51 PM
ryancaesar12345: i dont understand a thing simple success rate and simple summon  .ips files how to understand? by patch in original rom and view in gs tla editor?
May 25, 2019, 01:26:12 PM
ryancaesar12345: gsmagic? what is that and is that a editor where i can download that?
May 25, 2019, 01:03:43 PM
Fox: gsmagic only really supports GS2 (U) as well... While there is minor support for GS1 (Mainly to view maps), can't really say it counts yet.
May 25, 2019, 01:00:10 PM
Foxhttp://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=59 = And the Simple Summons thing... (Hex editor experience expected..) ... For all three of the hex editor experience stuff... I mean just basic knowledge should be enough to get by.

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