Future of the site?

[Rolina]

Well, as we can see, this site's purpose is... well, pretty much over.  But nobody said that this has to be the end of the site - the purpose ends?  Well, make a new one!

Now, here's the question - how should we change this?  I know one site that was starting to die began to reimagine itself as an RP community... we could go that route.  The ToK's general fansite option is an option, but I don't think we have the membership for that to succeed...  Do you guys have any suggestions?  Ideas?  I've got a lot of memories of this place, and it'd be really sad to see it go... I'd rather us change focus rather than die off.

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

What I would like to see on this site is a whole entire guide on the data of the three games. Pretty much describing everything you could find in the data. Since this would be something pretty big, I would imagine it would look more formal if it was part of the main website.

For those who don't know, I've already been trying to understand the entire battle mechanics file of GS2 (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=1632.msg36484#msg36484) I still have quite a way to go, though.


I have thought that Atrius's resign from the editor could eventually encourage others to be more willing to continue on with the editor. And having all this extra information might be a nice way to start. I generally feel that data research is easier than making the editor for them.


I'm also trying to imagine how the GS editor would look if each of the sub-editors icons were actually used for each of the code files instead. So basically, to get to the proper editor you're looking for, it may require choosing the correct icon, and then the specific editor you want from a list.  There may be some exceptions like keeping the map editor for itself, though, but not sure. This was only a simple thought in trying to make the editor work in a similar order as to how the data displays it. However, I have not thought too much about it yet.

[Rolina]

That's certainly not a bad idea, but looking at this site, I think that the Editor should become a side project.  We're bleeding members and activity, and it's quite worrisome to be honest.  As such, I think changing our focus, while still keeping that project active, would be a good idea for us to take.

Also, just to clarify... you're suggesting subdividing the editor into a bunch of different, specialized editors?  Or did I get that wrong?

[zman9000]

Everyone here on the site generally like the same things and think the same way (other then political issues)
We all like games and like the idea of editing them. And we tend to focus on entertainment type things in general.

since the site is already sorta about games why not have it focus games and hacking games, not just golden sun but others as well?
I know Salanewt works on those Mario and Luigi games another site and he's currently working on another game called "Sword of mana". (i know he left)
I know kain does live stream from time to time games he plays and he loves to talk about them almost as much as i like to talk about anime.
I know leaf experiments with music and game music from time to time
I know Charon does small animations and other art (i know she left)
and there are a bunch of others on the site that do some of the same things as well.

Why not switch the site's direction over too art and entertainment?
Then people can post any projects, be it a hack, a game, an animation or what ever and they can show off what they are working on, get help, and talk about new games and such. (and sure we do some of that stuff now, but the topics of those are all over the place and most are inactive or people left and took said project else where.)

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

This is what I generally meant.



And the idea on allowing people add to the list if they create custom databases in the data themselves, etc. Hmm...

[Rolina]

Ah, I see.  I'd love to see some of the work you've done developing the editor to be released here, Tea.

[Robert Joe]

We could go for an RP approach, the only issue is that GSAR and ToK already do just that (Although the latter is somewhat... Shall we say, "Questionable", when it comes to the subject of sanity?). I have actually been lurking on GSAR and have been considering joining, although this changes that a bit.

But, with Teawater's skills, all of this might not even be necessary in the first place.

[Kioll]

I honestly don't believe the site's purpose is over.  Big deal, Atrius isn't working on the Editor anymore.  So what?  The editor is still around.  It's still usable.  There are still hacks in progress and people out there who don't know how to hack yet who could use the Editor's help.  Perhaps YOUR reason for being here is dying, but don't project that on the rest of us.  I'd be rather upset to see this site shifting its focus away from what's going on already.  I mean, after all, the entire reason I'm here is for the help of the closest thing on the net to experts on Golden Sun: the people who expertly hack it.  Of course, until I get a couple more action sprites made of Jenna (i.e. pushing items, falling, etc.), I'm kinda stuck, but that's not the point.  Sure, a bit of roleplay would be cool, but having it take over the site would feel awkward and I know I'd leave, since I'd feel too awkward to keep talking about my game.  Then again, I doubt I'd join roleplaying on here anyways, because I tend not to RP on forums anyways, but still.

[Rolina]

I can't say that the ToK really has an RP focus.  That's one of the reasons I left there - they're more of a general fandom group with a very strange sense of humor and tons of in-jokes.

@Kioll:  While this is true, what I'm really worried about is the fact that even long time regulars have been leaving the site altogether.  He may not be working on the editor, but even before he stopped we were bleeding members.  We need to expand our horizons.  It's no fun having a ghost town of a community!  There's many ways to do this, as pointed out.  We can become an RP community, become a community that hacks more than just Golden Sun (Fire Emblem and Pokemon have editors for them, iirc, as does Mario World), and even become a more artistic site.

Don't just read my post and stop - Teawater and Zman made very good suggestions that would help the site become more active.  It's not fair to them to ignore their suggestions like that.

[Kain]

Changing the sites direction:  So it's not longer about hacking Golden Sun?  Speak to Atrius about changing the name of the site then.  Otherwise, I don't think you can make that call.

Changing it to RP:  No offense but this is probably the dumbest suggestion I've heard.  Changing the sites focus to RP isn't going to save it.  You're going to ghost town it more than it already is.

I can't say that the ToK really has an RP focus.  That's one of the reasons I left there

ONE of the reasons.  I chuckled.  But this isn't the time nor place.

Keeping the site about hacking Golden Sun but generalizing it with the editor being used as a tool, unless I'm mistaken, hasn't that always been the purpose?

[Kioll]

I read their suggestions, Role.  And I responded to them.  Well, other than the hacking other things bit.  Honestly, I wouldn't mind people hacking other things.  But isn't that why we have a "general hacks" section?  There would be no point in changing the community's focus.  Adding new activities is the way to spice things up, not shifting the focus.

[Rolina]

Yes, that has been the purpose.  But look at how few of us are left.  One by one, we'll be leaving until there's only a couple people left - we need to do something to bring in new blood.  There's multiple ways of doing this - and the one I think has the best chance is to branch out.

[Silverpine]

Okay, I know I'm super new to this particular site, but I've been around some GS forums for a few years. I haven't been consistent, but I have noticed a general decline in activity (with the exception of the GS Tumblr community.) I guess a part of why this site is declining could be because this site has a specific interest that focuses on a specific game series. It's too niche, in in GS standards. But, please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions. I am aware that I am a new member.

I'm not sure if you guys would work as a Roleplaying community, at least right now. The last post in your Roleplaying section was in 2011, with the exception of the thread I created tonight. Even though I love roleplaying, I don't exactly feel like it's within your current interests as a group. Developing in that direction would be too big of a change, perhaps.

General community sites are good if you have consistent activity, lots of new content for people to get involved in, and a general sense of family or identity. I don't know you guys well enough to judge that, but I bet someone here could give a decent opinion.

A guide on the entire GS series sounds interesting, but what other places out there offer similar information, even if they're not altogether? Either way, compiling data for people who are into this sort of thing, like you guys, would be a great project to rally around. But, that takes a lot of time and people power. Do you have the current resources to keep this up as a group over a longer time than you anticipate? And, how do you expect this to attract new members? It seems that it would only bring in people who are looking for data, and not necessarily staying here for the people. You kinda need to build both and keep them growing together somehow.

Or, maybe I'm just rambling at 2am in the morning.

[zman9000]

Um... wow...
You make a descent argument... hm...

I like your thoughts on this. Though keeping it a GS hacking site may be what we do I think we should rearrange the site a bit so its not just about hacking and has a fan section for game discussion. And we should be more open to other topics since it doesn't have to only focus on just golden sun 24/7 since there is only really so much you can talk about with 2 games and a sloppy 3rd.

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

So basically expand on the Tech forum?

Tech, Gaming and Entertainment
Discuss the latest in technology, gaming, or entertainment, or you could discuss older stuff too, it doesn't matter.

[Misery]

Well, this site is even called Golden Sun Hacking... personally, I think it should primarily be about hacking Golden Sun. And the people who are active here right now don't really come across to me as roleplaying people. Except maybe Role (duh).

The problem we're looking at if we want an active community based around that is, there are not enough people doing it. As of now, only Teawater is actually looking into the game's code. But I don't really see why this is a problem. Why does it have to be an active community? As far as I can see, that's not necessary to fulfill its intended purpose.

As for the editor, it has come a long way already. You can edit pretty much all existing values and all text, and the map code viewer is very powerful. What the editor really needs now is the ability to edit the actual maps, along with documentation on Golden Sun's scripting language. That, and preferrably some way to rewrite the text compression table, and figure out the remaining graphic compression routines (wait, hasn't Atrius done this already?)

I do have my own hack that I work with from time to time. I've also tried looking into the game's code a bit. I can do 6502/65c816 assembly, but the ARM opcodes have me stumped, even with Salanewt's reference list and the documentation on GBAtek. I can't seem to make any sense of the code I've seen so far, so clearly I'm missing something about how the commands are being used. I could probably figure it out eventually, but... it's a huge time sink and I'm not making much progress. Otherwise I might be able to contribute a bit more to this site.

And then there's the Community Hack, which was supposed to be the big thing for this site... which I think is dead in a sense. Not because Atrius stopped working with the editor, but because the community that wanted to make the hack in the first place simply isn't there anymore. Even if the community hack is finished now, it will never be what it was intended to be. I'll probably make a more official post about my thoughts on this later, it's something I've planned to do for quite a while.

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

Well, this site is even called Golden Sun Hacking... personally, I think it should primarily be about hacking Golden Sun. And the people who are active here right now don't really come across to me as roleplaying people. Except maybe Role (duh).

What's worse is that we have had an RP section for so long, and seeing as it has not been put to much use by anyone recently, I doubt that it would be worth expanding that section anytime soon.

The problem we're looking at if we want an active community based around that is, there are not enough people doing it. As of now, only Teawater is actually looking into the game's code. But I don't really see why this is a problem. Why does it have to be an active community? As far as I can see, that's not necessary to fulfill its intended purpose.

As for the editor, it has come a long way already. You can edit pretty much all existing values and all text, and the map code viewer is very powerful. What the editor really needs now is the ability to edit the actual maps, along with documentation on Golden Sun's scripting language. That, and preferrably some way to rewrite the text compression table, and figure out the remaining graphic compression routines (wait, hasn't Atrius done this already?)

I do have my own hack that I work with from time to time. I've also tried looking into the game's code a bit. I can do 6502/65c816 assembly, but the ARM opcodes have me stumped, even with Salanewt's reference list and the documentation on GBAtek. I can't seem to make any sense of the code I've seen so far, so clearly I'm missing something about how the commands are being used. I could probably figure it out eventually, but... it's a huge time sink and I'm not making much progress. Otherwise I might be able to contribute a bit more to this site.

Kind of depressing for me to be the only one, huh? ; I wouldn't quite say the Map Code Viewer is very powerful, but I suppose it is well on its way. (I haven't advanced the feature yet, or anything, though.)

GBA Thumb is simple, but I suppose you only mean the ARM counterpart. Which makes some sense as well. Sometimes you'll even see them down in a 2-step process. (Much like having two thumb instructions.)

add r0, r1, r2 lsl r3

is the same as

lsl r0, r2, r3
add r0, r1, r0

r0 for lsl is a guess.

Which amounts to : r0 = r1 + (r2 << r3) ; if I recall correctly.

Ofcourse, there are many other things you should know about arm. Like if you have a 64-bit return, the result goes in two registers. (One for the most significant part, and the other for the least significant.)

[Rolina]

How is it a problem?  If it's not an active community, people lose interest and leave.  Sala, for example.  When we've only got one or two people left, then who is Teawater developing for?  If Teawater is gonna take over development for the editor, which it looks like he's trying to do, the least we can do is make sure there's an active site to keep people here for when he makes releases.

[Kain]

Sala, for example.

He didn't leave because of inactivity and lack of interest.  He left because of school and the @#$% you did last April Fools Day.

[Kioll]

Agreed.  Sala's departure was not an activity thing.  Honestly, anyone who cares about the editor enough will grab the next release of the editor, signed up or not.  I mean it's not like you have to be registered to download it.  I know from experience; I downloaded the editor THEN joined the site.  That said, honestly, the only one clamoring for more activity is you, Role.  I'm not saying more activity would be a bad thing.  But if we force extra activity, then we'll end up doing more harm than good.