Crystal tier's

[Drake baku]

read that there are no crystal basic tier's yet, i have one character on my work's here that is a crystal user, so i figure if there are non yet, then please allow me:


Crystal → Crystallize → Crystalizer (range, basic)
Crystal → Crystallize → Crystaltower (Power)
Crystal → Crystallize → Crystalwave (Effect)
Crystal has 2 field uses, depending on the location where it can be used (if in game), the small spot's will create a small crystal spire (or gem, depending on the puzzle) to indeed reflect light, the bigger spot's can create a crystal pillar that can be walked on (both giving way to a lot of puzzles ^^).

in battle: crystal creates a small crystal rock under the enemy, target 1, power (something like quake?)
             crystallize same but range 3 and more power, around quake sphere (yes the second version will be learned around lvl 18)
             crystalizer the animation will even cover the enemy and shatter, range 5, power..? (learn at lvl 42)
             crystal tower will launch the enemy high in the air, stand there until the enemy fall's back and shatter hurting the enemy double on impact ^^, range 1, power (double that of the other 2)
             crystalwave animation (and in RP) will change the battlefield into a crystal cave with spikes, dealing small damage (around same as a lvl 10 ability, but on all enemy's as that it will deal damage afther each enemy attack (like sandstorm or hail if you played Pokemon)


beside these i have a few other crystal psynergy's, but this is the basic tier i thought off
any comments?

[Rolina]

First thing's first - the Crystal Tower line loses range, which is bad.  It's also far too powerful in comparison to the others, and wasteful when you consider that this is base damage psynergy.  They're not supposed to be heavy hitters, but rather crowd control.

Second, if you're doing this via my system (which it looks like), then you have to follow a rule with Basic Lines such as this.  Basic lines can only have debuff effects, not ailments (and even then, continual damage isn't one of the listed effects in my system).

Third, level 42 is a ridiculous level to learn something that's essentially a crystal Quake Sphere or Flare Storm.  You're expecting it to be way too powerful at that level.  For that matter, 18 is too high for a Basic Tier 2.  To put this into perspective, if they're only the power of a Tier 2 Basic, then they're pathetically obsolete when you get them, because that's when Tier 3 Basic spells are being learned (the exact level learned for Flare Storm, in fact).

Fourth, no.  If you're using my system, you cannot skip power stages, because it destroys balance.  You're growing this thing like this:

T1 Basic → T2 Intermediate → T3 Advanced

In my system, that's not allowed.  It's a huge no-no.  Basic spells are the basics.  There is absolutely nothing advanced about them.  That's what Intermediate and Advanced spell lines are for - and that's why it's heavily recommended that those two lines be original rather than taken from canon - because that's where your character's unique flair really shows.

While others in this forum may not agree with me, the fact that you're using both crystal and the branched spell evolution suggests to me that you're looking at the system I worked on for this - and if you're gonna use that system, you have to follow the rules for that system.

Finally, if this helps you with your english, 's is typically either possessive or a contraction.  That means when you said psynergy's, what that says is that something belongs to a psynergy (example:  The psynergy's properties are unique).  However, what you meant was plural, which never uses an apostrophe (').  The plural for psynergy is psynergies (example:  There are many psynergies available to an adept).

[Drake baku]

ah OK, i am sorry, still working things out

i designed the crystal line before i found this site, but did not know about the branching system, so just kinda went with it for this site, crystalizer was the only real psynergy, and not knowing much about the power rating, it is not really that surprising that the tower is overboard (trough if you look at balance of things, losing range for extreme power is not that bad XD, just saying XD)

so OK, there build to be not basic then, that is clear, so sorry bout that

about the system, as i said, i am still working things out and learning and all, so again sorry if i misunderstand and make mistakes here and there, please bear with me

one thing that i do not understand about what i did wrong here is the matter of level and tier, OK the level Base for a basic line is all wrong (did not think that trough) but about the last version being 42 and that makes it an other tier version (T3)?, i mean, ply is lvl 1, and ends somewhere between lvl 40 and 50, so if this cannot be a basic line, then is it not possible with these levels as an t2 or something?
i do not fully understand what makes a psynergy an T2 or T3 (thought it has to do with attacks only knowable due to higher classes by djinnes)

[Rolina]

The Tier of a spell is which spell it is in the line.  So Quake is Tier 1, Earthquake is Tier 2, and Quake Sphere is Tier 3, because they're the first, second, and third spells in the quake series.

The Level of a spell is which spell it is in the class.  Basic is the first spell (Quake, Flare, Frost), Intermediate is the second spell (Spire, Fire, Ice), and Advanced is the last spell (Gaia, Volcano, Cool).

So when someone says Tier 2 Intermediate, they're talking about the second spell in the middle line - for Isaac, this is Clay Spire.

Some classes don't have three base damage lines - Angel and Mariner, for example.  For them, compare the power of the Tier 3 spell to see what it is.  Ice is similar in power to Spire, so it's Intermediate.  Cool is similar in power to Gaia, so it's Advanced.

[Drake baku]

OK, but then i wonder this

higher lvl's mean its is intermediate and advance

but why is the t2 and t3 of crystal then beyond basic.
ply starts at lvl 1, end somewhere at lvl 35, ok, so its not as high as crystal t3 but it is a lot higher then quake t3

so would it not mean that if its not basic, that the intire crystal line is more intermediate

(slowly am starting to make sense, but still have a lot to learn XD)

[Rolina]

Level has little to do with it.  Go open up the game, and look where the spells are in the classes.  It's usually ordered from the weakest spell line to the strongest, right?

Also, Ply isn't any of them.  It's Healing.  Only what's called "Base Damage" is grouped in those categories.  Base damage uses no stat to determine damage - just a base value affected by elemental power and resistance.  A good example?  Dragon Rage from pokemon.  While EPAs are like Flare Blitz, Base Damage is like Dragon Rage.

What these do is categorize the dragon rages by general power.

So you ask why things are a certain strength?  Because you yourself said so.  You said that the T2 version is similar in power to an Intermediate line, and the T3 version is akin to a spell that's part of an Advanced line.  And no, it would not mean that it's intermediate.  It'd mean it's an outlier - something that doesn't do what all other spells in the game does.

Basically, what I'm telling you here is this - do not jump between different spell lines when making comparisons.  If you want it basic, then compare it to Quake, Flare, Frost, Douse, and Growth.  All of those are basic.  But only choose one of them - don't mix and match.  That's not only pointlessly confusing, since you have to look the darned thing up.  It's also inconsistent as hell.

[Aile~♥]

Even though there ARE some spells in-game that already break those trends, such as Whirlwind or Froth, these spells typically end up making characters that learn them less useful, rather than more. Sheba, for example, ends up relegated to support roles due to a lack of a good, solid attack spell from about level 20 to level 35.

I'm not sure Douse is a good comparison target, as it's quite a bit stronger and learned at a later level than Flare or Quake, at least at the higher tiers. The Slash series behaves the same way as Douse in that regard as well, and so does Froth. If I had to suggest good comparison targets for "Basic" Psynergy, they'd be: Quake, Flare, Frost, Bolt, and Growth.

P.S. Rolina forgot when to plurals and when to semicolon.

[Drake baku]

ah OK now i understand, this means that non of my other character power bases are not correct at all then XD


and what do plurals and semicolon mean BTW? XD (feel kinda stupid ATM XD)

[Aile~♥]

Plurals are used when there's more than one of something, obviously. Or well, it's obvious if English is your first language. Like, for example: "power bases". The "s" at the end means there's more than one.

As for a semicolon, it's this thing: ; . It is used to connect multiple ideas that are only somewhat connected (I believe the technical term is "independent clauses") when the wording is wrong for a new sentence. That said, Rolina didn't actually forget to use a semicolon, she forgot to use commas ( , ).

Incidentally, my grammar was bad as well when I was correcting Rolina.

But I think I've hijacked your topic enough for the moment. Back to business!


Yeah, it's often best to make a Base Damage Psynergy series follow either the "Basic", "Intermediate" or "Advanced" setups to ensure that your character remains useful for the majority of the game in terms of combat ability.

Some characters, however, will learn lines that are half-way between Basic and Intermediate in power, or between Intermediate and High in power. Mia's base class, for example, forgoes the "Basic, Intermediate, Advanced" setup in favour of a Basic series (Frost) and the Ice series, which is somewhat between an Intermediate and Advanced in power. Again, this is not recommended if your character is meant to be a damage-dealer; Mia falls short in terms of end-game power as a result of this setup, with her strongest damaging spell being weaker than that of most characters and her Attack stat being terrible along with.

Incidentally, having done my research it seems that only Tier 1 of Froth breaks the trend, with the rest of the series being very clearly Intermediate. This is another thing to not do, as Tier 1 of Froth has the power of a Tier 1 Intermediate spell, but is learned at a level appropriate for a Tier 1 Basic. This makes it a VERY powerful attack spell if you have early access to it. Unfortunately, you won't, because none of the games give you a Mercury character at an early enough level to make good use of the spell.

[Rolina]

As long as it's minor enough that nobody notices or cares, we don't mind.  We're not too much of a grammar nazi about things.  However, there is a certain threshold that you can pass where it starts to bug us.  When that happens, don't be surprised if you see us correcting you.  Don't worry, we're sure you'll get better with time - most people do.  We don't mean to be mean or anything, just to help you learn is all.

As far as the trend breakers are concerned, they tend to be on the border anyways.  It's why I used to have five categories, with midpoints between the three I use now.  By that one, only Whirlwind breaks the mold, as it's clearly Basic/Intermediate/Intermediate in the power of its three tiers.  Still, since you appear to be using my system as a basis of sorts, you'll want to keep to the standardization I've put into play.  It's not only easier, you really don't have to worry about stats unless you're making a hack.

[Drake baku]

yeah, i am really gratefull for that, thanks