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Author Topic: History of Weyard  (Read 8805 times)
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Thunder-squall
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« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2014, 02:53:26 AM »

Is it reasonable to say that it was created and sustained using alchemy, which is why it began to fall apart when alchemy was sealed?
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2014, 02:57:31 AM »

Weyard can't have been creative with alchemy, because that implies that people were already there.  Alchemy is more of the life blood of the planet, so it's more akin to FF7 and the use of Mako energy for materia.  Without the "lifestream" of weyard, it begins to wither and die.  With it restored, it begins to recover.
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« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2014, 02:59:48 AM »

There really isn't one, sadly.  Nothing in the series is said of any kind of pantheon or creation myths.

I have a theory.
I think that the light and dark elements are not conected to psynergy directly. They are linked to Alchemy! (I have to work this point more, but it makes sense, since we did not see any light/dark psyenergy when Alchemy was sealed).
I think that the "non-void" (all that exists) is created by the disruptive waves caused by the interaction between those two elements.
Sorry if someone else said the exactly same thing before.
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« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2014, 03:02:38 AM »

I see Weyard as an artificial escape pod meant to escape whatever fate befell those below.

OR it's Olympus.
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Rolina
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« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2014, 03:08:17 AM »

There really isn't one, sadly.  Nothing in the series is said of any kind of pantheon or creation myths.

I have a theory.
I think that the light and dark elements are not conected to psynergy directly. They are linked to Alchemy! (I have to work this point more, but it makes sense, since we did not see any light/dark psyenergy when Alchemy was sealed).
I think that the "non-void" (all that exists) is created by the disruptive waves caused by the interaction between those two elements.
Sorry if someone else said the exactly same thing before.
...Psynergy is the practical application of Alchemy.
It's like how Technology is the practical application of Science.
And how Magic is the practical application of Mysticism.
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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2014, 06:32:51 AM »

I still think it's Olympus.  And mortals basically got stuck up there.

Alternately, given the name "Weyard" (as Passaj), it seems like a way point between places.  I like the idea of there being other shards or floating plateaus like Weyard.
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« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2014, 11:38:41 AM »


[/quote]
...Psynergy is the practical application of Alchemy.
It's like how Technology is the practical application of Science.
And how Magic is the practical application of Mysticism.
[/quote]

Well, I don't agree...

Alchemy was sealed! So, how could Psynergy still be used? It is a simple logic matter...

Psynergy is focusing the -mind- and using its power to change the world around.
Alchemy is a much greater power.
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« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2014, 11:56:00 AM »

So Alchemy and Psynergy are different? I thought they were pretty much the same on general terms...
(Let me make a random comparison (Might be illogical, but..?): Alchemy is the spirit of Weyard, and Psynergy is the mind power of people.) 

I'm going to guess and say that the SEAL on alchemy isn't the same as the DEATH of alchemy. Perhaps it's the "endless generated resources" that's sealed...
 (Weyard is dying, but never completely died... if Alchemy died completely, would Weyard still be there?)


Anyway, when thinking of the psy-seal effect keeping you from using psynergy... It's not like you don't have psynergy, but you just can't use it... Hmmm!

---

Psynergy = Battery
Alchemy = Charger

What do you think? (And once alchemy is sealed, the "charger" loses it's source (unplugged), and then it drains slowly... but look at it as a giant charger that is able to consume a lot of power perhaps as big as the sun.)
After the unplug, fortunately for us, everyone's batteries are maxed. Over time, this drains too, but the people can still recharge themselves a little bit with the remaining power supply from the unplugged charger until it's gone.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 12:31:15 PM by Teawater » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2014, 12:49:42 PM »

I still think it's Olympus.  And mortals basically got stuck up there.

Alternately, given the name "Weyard" (as Passaj), it seems like a way point between places.  I like the idea of there being other shards or floating plateaus like Weyard.
Pretty sure the name Weyard is a reference to some mythos.  It's not exclusive to GS (I think Valkyrie Profile uses it?  Not to sure on that, though).
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« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2014, 02:00:42 PM »

So Alchemy and Psynergy are different? I thought they were pretty much the same on general terms...
(Let me make a random comparison (Might be illogical, but..?): Alchemy is the spirit of Weyard, and Psynergy is the mind power of people.)  

I'm going to guess and say that the SEAL on alchemy isn't the same as the DEATH of alchemy. Perhaps it's the "endless generated resources" that's sealed...
 (Weyard is dying, but never completely died... if Alchemy died completely, would Weyard still be there?)


Anyway, when thinking of the psy-seal effect keeping you from using psynergy... It's not like you don't have psynergy, but you just can't use it... Hmmm!

---

Psynergy = Battery
Alchemy = Charger

What do you think? (And once alchemy is sealed, the "charger" loses it's source (unplugged), and then it drains slowly... but look at it as a giant charger that is able to consume a lot of power perhaps as big as the sun.)
After the unplug, fortunately for us, everyone's batteries are maxed. Over time, this drains too, but the people can still recharge themselves a little bit with the remaining power supply from the unplugged charger until it's gone.

Well... we do not have much lore about it, so someone has to -start- to create a logical explanation...

Let's put my theory to test:
1) Dying but not dead Weyard: as I said in the other post, I think that all that exists came from the interactions between light and darkness, which are related to Alchemy. So, everything that is created, is created. Period. That would explain why matter still exists. But sealing the Alchemy means that nothing gets renewed.
My questions here are: how releasing Alchemy could stop the world from falling into the falls? Releasing Alchemy will result in merging the continents again? If so, Alchemy is responsible for this bond.

2) Charging/recharging: well... everything is created by Alchemy, including Psynergy. But there is a difference between the elemental psynergies and the "alchemy energies (technically they are not PSYnergies, unless used by someone)" (responsible for creation). How could I explain this... Light and darkness interactions created earth, water, wind and fire. These are the "blocks" for creating matter. So, for example, wood is created by all these elements (15% fire, 40% earth...). Nothing is created by a single element, except, maybe, the purified essence inside the elemental stars.
The psynergy used by Adepts don't come directly from Alchemy (inderectly, yes, just like everything that it's not void), but from the psynergy stones that are a particular matter (but just created by the same means as wood) capable of imbuing people with the power of psynergy. They are already created. That's why - in my humble theory - Adepts still can use Psynergy despite Alchemy already being sealed.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 02:02:24 PM by KyleRunner, Reason: typo » Logged
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« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2014, 07:44:12 PM »

Can't find much historical references for weyard, but alternate spellings sort of work.
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« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2014, 11:23:50 PM »

Also, can we talk about something somewhat important to the setting?

We need to go out of our way to never call Light and Dark "elements" ever when referring to the GS series.  It's minor, I know, but it's a fun little mental trick - when you start referring to them as the Fundaments (you know, because that's what they are), you stop thinking of them as though they're the same as the four elements (you know, because they're not).  A lot of the things making me go O.o and "the hell did they get that from?" seem to stem from.  GS does not treat Light and Dark as though they're elements - its not like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest or any of the other fantasy games out there.  It's a related, parallel force. 

Let's look at it this way - the four elements are like the visual spectrum.  They make like, colors and stuff.  But the fundaments are more like sounds.  They're still a form of entertainment, and they work REALLY great with the visual stuffs, but they're not the same thing, and they're handled differently.
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« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2014, 07:32:25 PM »


Well... we do not have much lore about it, so someone has to -start- to create a logical explanation...

Let's put my theory to test:
1) Dying but not dead Weyard: as I said in the other post, I think that all that exists came from the interactions between light and darkness, which are related to Alchemy. So, everything that is created, is created. Period. That would explain why matter still exists. But sealing the Alchemy means that nothing gets renewed.
My questions here are: how releasing Alchemy could stop the world from falling into the falls? Releasing Alchemy will result in merging the continents again? If so, Alchemy is responsible for this bond.

"Constant creation" is perhaps the only way to explain how water keeps flowing off of Weyard, and how its land area can actually grow or resist erosion from the water.  And thus we need a theory in which constant-creation can be explained by Alchemy.

I use an alchemy well to explain the water.

Vegetation and root systems could explain the growing land mass and its stability.


2) Charging/recharging: well... everything is created by Alchemy, including Psynergy. But there is a difference between the elemental psynergies and the "alchemy energies (technically they are not PSYnergies, unless used by someone)" (responsible for creation). How could I explain this... Light and darkness interactions created earth, water, wind and fire. These are the "blocks" for creating matter. So, for example, wood is created by all these elements (15% fire, 40% earth...). Nothing is created by a single element, except, maybe, the purified essence inside the elemental stars.
The psynergy used by Adepts don't come directly from Alchemy (inderectly, yes, just like everything that it's not void), but from the psynergy stones that are a particular matter (but just created by the same means as wood) capable of imbuing people with the power of psynergy. They are already created. That's why - in my humble theory - Adepts still can use Psynergy despite Alchemy already being sealed.

I think psy energy is when people communicate spiritually or mentally with the elements, share a mind space, and then take an action (while sharing a mind with the elements)

Alchemy is the automated and mechanized version of this.  This is why alchemy engines can run non stop, and why they pose so much risk for causing disharmony among the elements.

The natural elements, anyway.  My hypothesis is that all of Weyard is unnatural, and exists only through the use and abuse of alchemy.
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« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2014, 07:34:25 PM »

Constant Creation is one way, the other is part of Flip Side Theory.  I personally believe it's a bit of both - there's no way some water isn't lost over Gaia Falls, even if it's dragged back into the middle.  I think sources like Aqua Rock are largely responsible for that creation.
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« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2014, 07:25:25 AM »

If you want the light houses to remain unlit, then why not destroy them, or at least make it mechanically impossible to light them?

The answer is that they were switches, meant to be able to be turned on or off when a select few (adepts) decided to do so.  Their design suggests (1) adaptive management, in that the houses would be lit and unlit as needed, and (2) control by committee, where the decision to light them was in the hands of more than one individual, assuming that an individual could only be an adept of one element.

'Aadaptive management' is an engineering term you should look up if you're not already familiar with it.  It's prevalent in situations where there is no stable 'steady state,' and that seems to describe Weyard perfectly.
Well that is a good description. I can totally agree with it.

Quote from: Rolina
Second, Flip Side Theory, where the two sides of weyards have basically a pressure difference because only one side's golden sun is lit.  The other side doesn't have vortexes, but violent Psynergy Storms, where all that energy sucked away here is unleashed upon a corresponding point in the Flip Side.
Well my theory isn't fully finished but it looks like your Flip Side theory. I think the other side of Weyard or the surface of the planet beneath Weyard, holds four other lighthouse that form a Silver Moon.
The Silver Moon is what eventually sorta causes the Vortexes.

Otherwise they could be something external completely.
Quote from: Rolina
Weyard can't have been creative with alchemy, because that implies that people were already there.  Alchemy is more of the life blood of the planet, so it's more akin to FF7 and the use of Mako energy for materia.  Without the "lifestream" of weyard, it begins to wither and die.  With it restored, it begins to recover.
That seems logical.

Quote from: Rolina
There really isn't one, sadly.  Nothing in the series is said of any kind of pantheon or creation myths.
There are some fanfics however.
Quote from: KyleRunner
I have a theory.
I think that the light and dark elements are not conected to psynergy directly. They are linked to Alchemy! (I have to work this point more, but it makes sense, since we did not see any light/dark psyenergy when Alchemy was sealed).
I think that the "non-void" (all that exists) is created by the disruptive waves caused by the interaction between those two elements.
Sorry if someone else said the exactly same thing before.
I thank you for the feedback, but this is not the place to post this. Try this topic:http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2394.0
Eh, leave it. Just use this topic for everything.

Quote from: Teawater
So Alchemy and Psynergy are different? I thought they were pretty much the same on general terms...
(Let me make a random comparison (Might be illogical, but..?): Alchemy is the spirit of Weyard, and Psynergy is the mind power of people.)  (quote shortened)
Yeah I think they are different. (check URL above for theories)
The battery charger comparison is a good one.

Quote from: KyleRunner
My questions here are: how releasing Alchemy could stop the world from falling into the falls? Releasing Alchemy will result in merging the continents again? If so, Alchemy is responsible for this bond.
Well Alchemy might just provide a lot of the "blocks". I'm not exactly sure how this works now you mention it.
Quote from: KyleRunner
2) Charging/recharging: well... everything is created by Alchemy, including Psynergy. (quote shortened)
I think the blocks are just the way we and the people of weyard see it. If the elements are part of Alchemy then it is just a way to see it. Example: We could also divide Alchemy in Sol(earth+fire) an Luna(water+wind). See were I'm going with this?

Quote from: Thunder-squall
I think psy energy is when people communicate spiritually or mentally with the elements, share a mind space, and then take an action (while sharing a mind with the elements)

Alchemy is the automated and mechanized version of this.  This is why alchemy engines can run non stop, and why they pose so much risk for causing disharmony among the elements.

The natural elements, anyway.  My hypothesis is that all of Weyard is unnatural, and exists only through the use and abuse of alchemy.
Sharing minds? Hmm, the longer I think about it the more sense it makes.

Unnatural? You mean like how life (organisms) IRL earth is also sort of strange and unnatural?

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Yesterday at 07:26:16 PM
Fox: (path) 1 text=(address) char=(address) free=(address) ; << Well, closer to this... but yeah... even if I do choose to have defaults in the code, I could still use this method for overrides.
Yesterday at 07:24:28 PM
Fox: So like (path) 0 text=(address) char=(address) len=(number) ; (path) 1 free=(address) ; Or something. But that's just a quick example.
Yesterday at 06:59:14 PM
Fox: Hopefully. I was wanting to make it so you could put in the addresses/etc. as one of the arguments in the path. Hm?
Yesterday at 03:37:07 PM
KyleRunner: Nice! I hope you'll add compatibility with others games (GS1, Mario Golf and Tennis) soon.
January 14, 2018, 11:40:09 PM
Fox: Okay. Posted (in Downloads section) an initial cutdown version for now, for my text compressor. Basically to separate the code from my Editor for anyone who wants to mess with it. It only supports GS2, because I still didn't add the addresses/etc. for the other games.
January 14, 2018, 05:01:00 PM
Fox: Okay! Going to need to think how I want it to work. Initial thoughts is maybe have a number of arguments in the filepath thing. And have a number of shortcuts (files) to be used as examples. Assuming there are no problems.
January 14, 2018, 10:38:24 AM
KyleRunner: Well... I'm used to editing text ina a text editor, so... yes! Thanks in advance!
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Fox: (Text editor = Text Document like notepad.)
January 13, 2018, 11:38:21 PM
Fox: Would you prefer during the text editing in a text editor? (Like what gstoolkit lets you do?) I could probably make a separate tool or something to compress it.
January 13, 2018, 10:10:02 PM
KyleRunner: Ok. Once I finish my Lost Age translation, I'll try a Mario Golf one. Thanks. (But I'll need help).
January 13, 2018, 10:03:17 PM
Fox: If you want to make it "permanent" (part of a hack), then you'd edit code in the ROM that writes to this location of the IDs you'd want to change. (You can find these locations by using a breakpoint debugger like SDL-H or no$gba.)
January 13, 2018, 10:00:11 PM
Fox: Reload/switch = Recommended to be done through Debug mode/warp menu, ofcourse... since doors seem to appear as if they were disabled? ; 03001238:01 and B+Start to get to warp menu.
January 13, 2018, 09:55:39 PM
Fox: @Kyle Runner = It might be, but you'd have to use the correct addresses for Mario Golf, rather than for GS2 as I have it right now. ; @raijinken = Yes. 02000454 = ID of leader. (Change this and reload/switch room you are in, enjoy.)
January 13, 2018, 02:23:29 PM
raijinken: Hey guys, is it possible to somehow change the lead character on the map? Was wondering. I remember there was a cheat to use Jenna, but what if I wanted Isaac, or Piers?
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January 13, 2018, 02:09:37 PM
KyleRunner: Hey, is your text editor compatible with Mario Golf (GBA)?
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Fox: But if it isn't an oversight, I still can't imagine it being that useful.
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Fox: part, ofcourse.
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Fox: 0200274C = Hmm... Stuff happens here when you use Cyclone around bushes. (These cause tile replacements, and setting event 0 to those tiles.) - And I guess this kept here so it can be scanned after battle. (To re-update the map.) So here is my fun thought (assuming if it is even possible, or even convenient if so.) ... Are there any events from other maps that could be disabled do to using Cyclone on bushes + Retreat glitch? I'll need to do some testing to make sure this isn't an oversight on my
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Fox: And the chance for a Djinni battle is 50%.

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