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Author Topic: History of Weyard  (Read 11906 times)
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Thunder-squall
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« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2014, 12:37:00 AM »

People have been talking about psychic powers for a long, long time.  IF the idea of psyenergy in Golden Sun is remotely descendent from them, then I think Carl Jung is a good source.  He talks about 'psychic chronicity,' where human thoughts have happened to coincide with real world phenomenon.  People have then gone on to theorize on mystical reasons for why this may be the case, and the common idea is that people who express these 'psychic' abilities are basically sharing mind space with the things they seem to be causing or predicting. Basically, they're talking or empathizing with the natural forces, and occasionally asking the forces to behave in ways the forces normally would not behave in.

A related question would be: What would increase the psychic abilities of people, such they would be able to influence the elements?  Eastern philosophy and religion are filled with people who have attained god like powers through practice and devotion, and attaining god like powers isn't quite so hard or virtuous as attaining wisdom, or finding a way of life that makes the world better.  In Weyard's past, we see the evidence of god like powers, but not god like wisdom.  Therefore it would stand to reason that the ancients actively sought out to increase their psychic abilities (as well as their technological abilities/alchemy), and the way to do that seems to be through utilizing the 5th Japanese Element, the void.

If the 'void' is just another word for soul-space (which is the mental-medium through which psychics use their power), then that reminds of something which reminds me of 'dark psyenergy.' Simply, all humans mind have the part of themselves that they can understand, and the part of themselves that they can only feel, and cannot always control.  When using the Tao as a psychological metaphor, this is the part of the 'Ying yang' that is associated with darkness.

I can imagine a world where the ancients further experimented with new ways to use psyenergy, and ended up bringing Darkness into the Light (where it shouldn't be), creating creatures of darkness that could not survive the light, but which found ways to persist anyway.  This fits with what Chalis purportedly said about fearing the light.  If I were telling the story, I would feature the umbral clan either as victims, or as scientists who wanted to explore the limits of existence.  I would not have them be a power-equivalent to the whatever the forces of sol were. 

Then again... I guess I've got too many possibilities on my mind right now, such that I cannot focus on a single one.  That's not a bad thing.
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Luna_blade
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« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2014, 03:37:08 PM »

Quote from: Thunder-Squall
People have been talking about psychic powers for a long, long time.  IF the idea of psyenergy in Golden Sun is remotely descendent from them, then I think Carl Jung is a good source.  He talks about 'psychic chronicity,' where human thoughts have happened to coincide with real world phenomenon.  People have then gone on to theorize on mystical reasons for why this may be the case, and the common idea is that people who express these 'psychic' abilities are basically sharing mind space with the things they seem to be causing or predicting. Basically, they're talking or empathizing with the natural forces, and occasionally asking the forces to behave in ways the forces normally would not behave in.
Well this could be the thing that happen in the GS series. But what is used to share the mind with the forces? PP? Then the question is what is PP? This is interesting stuff since I never really thought about it.

Void? Corruption perhaps? That was something fannon in some Final Fantasy games.

And yeah a bit of "With power comes responibility"? You can be a strong adept, but without the wisdom on how to use your psynergy (and I mean goals, not the magic itself) you're not much or dangerous.

UNRELATED: what about non-adept not being able to see Psynergy???
In my theory that would either mean it's plain ol' invisible OR Psynergy is not a part of Alchemy.
Or the elements do not come from Alchemy...
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Rolina
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« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2014, 11:46:57 PM »

Pretty sure it's just an analogue for magic in this world - it's not Psionics as most sci-fi peeps would know it.  At least, that's how it's used.  In fact, in the original japanese, it's not even Psynergy - it's just Energy, and those who can use it are called Energists.  What I don't know is whether the psychic aspect was a localization quirk, or if it was in the original.
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Luna_blade
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« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2014, 05:51:16 AM »

Quote from: Thunder-Squall
People have been talking about psychic powers for a long, long time.  IF the idea of psyenergy in Golden Sun is remotely descendent from them, then I think Carl Jung is a good source.  He talks about 'psychic chronicity,' where human thoughts have happened to coincide with real world phenomenon.  People have then gone on to theorize on mystical reasons for why this may be the case, and the common idea is that people who express these 'psychic' abilities are basically sharing mind space with the things they seem to be causing or predicting. Basically, they're talking or empathizing with the natural forces, and occasionally asking the forces to behave in ways the forces normally would not behave in.
Wait a second here. In GS1 master Nyunpa and Master Feh tell the party Psynergy is actually Ki!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 10:01:52 PM by Luna_blade, Reason: I meant Ki » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2014, 10:57:28 PM »

No, they said Ki is another name for it.  Ki refers to mental manipulation, while Chi seems to be physical manipulation.  You see similar themes in other Japanese media.  Negima comes to mind in particular.  Even then, in the original Japanese they called it something else iirc, and Chi was actually called Kung Fu.
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« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2014, 10:42:53 AM »

Chi was actually called Kung Fu.
lol.

Anyway, I think psynergy is supposed to be a type of psychic power, different from actual magic. There seems to be actual supernatural phenomena, while psynergy isn't considered supernatural by characters who are familiar with it. But the games are pretty ambiguous on this, what with all the psynergy abilities modeled to act like magical spells, class names like "Magician", "Wizard", etc...
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« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2016, 02:42:21 AM »

A looot has been posted on this thread and making a response to everything would probably end up in a bloated post that would derive into rambling but I just want to point a couple things: Dark/Light "elements" and the sealing of Alchemy.

1) I agree with Rolina, Light and Dark aren't elements, Camelot introduced these aspects in weird ways with DD that don't really fit Alchemy and the creation/change of matter within the 4 primordial elements, although I rather like they were trying to explain them in that they were aspects that transcended the four base elements and Adepts in the far past wanted to use them to attain God-like powers (though at the same time, it is the creation of the Stone of Sages in the first series what granted one god-like powers)

Not to mention that DD seems to hint that Luna is associated with Dark but what we know about the moon is that 1) the Anemos folk went on to live in there and that it's exposure to certain Jupiter Adepts (those under the influence of Air's Rock) causes their beast-like powers to manifest.

===

2) And as for Alchemy, Kraden explains it many times, it's the force/powers/energy/mako/whatever that drives the four elements to build matter and psyenergy is the practical way to manipulate it by using alchemy to make a plant grow or make things explode or make water go through its 3 states and so on.

The whole sealing of alchemy doesn't means psyenergy stops in all of the world, what it did was seal the power that would allow one to create the Stone of Sages, this means you shut off the flow of alchemy into this world by sealing the jupiter, venus, mercury and mars beacons (which in the past they may have not existed as beacons or lighthouses, the lighthouse structures seem to function like water taps).

Alchemy as the life-force in this world has little to do with the psyenergy vortexes, the game hints strongly that they come from machines made by the zenith (a machine being started can be heard when those vortexes activate), someone stated somewhere in this thread that it is kind of like the lifestream/mako of FF7 and I agree it is a very close parallel. Materia is solidified Mako like how Psyenergy stones is solidified psyenergy.


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