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coding, and using tech in general.

Started by Thunder-squall, 03, January, 2014, 11:22:03 PM

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Thunder-squall

For a lark, I decided to download GameMaker studio (free), and am just now going through the tutorial.  As back story, I've been coding game-stuff from scratch (or learning to, at the hobby level), and I'll admit I've recently been thinking "wouldn't it be better if I had all this ground work already laid out?"  Well, it seems the grass is always greener on the other side, because while GameMaker is cool, it's basics are the stuff I've found myself making anyway.  So I guess I've now come to the conclusion that it's good to try out a bunch of different stuff, if only so you don't complain that the way you're doing is it that much more difficult than the alternative.  I mean, sure, it might be.  But a little bit of perspective or change of pace is cool.

What all coding or tech stuff have you guys tried your hands at?  Anyone use the old RPG Maker XP? 

And I know you guys have badges and stuff, but is any of it merit based?  Or rather, indicative of what you can do?  That might help when knowing who to ask for advice and stuff.  It could also encourage noobs like myself to "level up" in things we haven't tried yet.  The same way there are Pokemon Gym leaders, you could have Tea or whomever certify that you've got whatever hacking chops.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#1
While GameMaker is interesting, I generally perfer not to use it for many reasons.

-No IO commands as far as I know, so you have to get a DLL.
-Don't like the navigation.
...and possibly many other reasons.

And no, I don't think any of them are merit-based.  We did have badges that are time-based, though. Some were retrievable only during certain time-frames... Like the Theme badges, but they were only obtainable once, back when their event occurred.  Too bad we haven't had any events in a while. And then there was the Limited Edition Monthly badges that Charon used to do when she was here back then.

I would be interested in GSHC doing merits. Not sure if the staff are even fit for the task, however.

Ideas for badges:
-Completed GS1/GS2/GS3 ; Or simply own the game. (Could be "verified" by a picture with your username written in it. I quoted "verified" because it might be possible to Photoshop images to trick someone.)
-Can assist in Editor questions. (Perhaps retrieved by answering 10 user asked questions?)
-Experience in Assembly.
-Experience with Hex Editors.
-Voted best hack of the month?
-Maybe even one based on activity and useful posts?

And then for other badges, there could be random quizzes people may have to take to retrieve them. (It might be a Show Your Work type of thing, where you have to explain stuff in your own words, though.)
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Thunder-squall

So the badges were just collectors items, for fun?  There was no game or incentive system, other than to stay alert and active on the site, and earn money from the mods?

What kind of coding do you do?  Or rather, what's involved in hacking?  I occasionally use python to mess with data files and stuff at work, but lua (via love2d.org) is just easier for games and stuff.  You don't have to use a compiler, so it's easier to play with.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Yes, pretty much. There was also User-created badges as well. (Which was where you could make badges to get coins. That is, as long as they were accepted.)

What's involved in hacking?
VisualBoyAdvance (It has built-in tools like a memory viewer which can be helpful.)
VBA-SDL-H (For breakpoints)
GBATEK for understanding GBA hardware.
Hex Editor to make permanent changes. (Not really necessary when you can use the Save button in VBA's memory viewer, but still worth mentioning.)

Those are the main keys, for basic hacking. If you plan on doing something as advanced  as permanently modifying compressed data, then you will need decompressors/compressors, that's usually where custom editors come in.

I know VB.NET (Visual Basic) pretty well, and that's generally where I started when I learned how to make editors.
In the present, I became interested in using Java for many good reasons. One being that it is multi-platform compatible, so Mac users won't need things like WINE.. Etc. The IDE's I have used were Eclipse and NetBeans, I haven't decided which is better, so...

As for C++/C#/etc. I'm not as familiar with them, but the internet is always a useful resource for learning.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Atrius (He/Him)

Game Maker has plenty of IO functions, they just aren't very efficient.  These days I only use it for prototyping.

Merit based badges were something I'd always wanted to start doing, but never actually got around to.

My programming experience includes GML (Game Maker's scripting language), Actionscript/FLEX, Visual Basic, Java, Javascript, Perl, PHP, LabVIEW, and C/C++
[sprite=220,4,0]I'm shaking my head in general disapproval of everything[/sprite]

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#5
Oh. Well, I had difficulty finding the FileIO ones that reads an entire file into an array (As well as writing the array back)... That set of FileIO functions is what I was referring to.

Sounds good.

Whoa, moderately large list you got there. Is that in any specific order? (My guess is not... but...)

GML = TLA Editor
ActionScript = Flash images you have shown, including a flash applet.
Visual Basic = Don't remember anything about you working in VB.
Java = Forgotten Dreams...
JavaScript = ?
Perl = ?
PHP = Your website...
LabVIEW = ?
C/C++ = TLA Editor's DLL
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Thunder-squall

I barely scratched visual basic a year or two ago, but I was doing it 'just because,' so I didn't keep with it.  But apparently MS Excel has some VB functionality that I'll be trying to take advantage of, so I'll be dipping back in soon.  Hopefully, actually having something to accomplish will help.

How in-depth do prototypes typically go? Do you go as far as level design and balancing?  Or do you just use it to figure out what the basic building blocks of your game need to be, and how to build your basic code?

When I was using RPG maker back in the day, I found that I wasn't using it to make games, but to make scenes, atmospheres, test small puzzles, and basically use it as active inspiration.  I wouldn't call that prototyping though.  Just dicking around.  I made this corridor in a mansion that had a steam powered wall that slowly closed in--you know, like a trash compactor? That was neat.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Okay. Good luck. However, I pretty much separate Visual Basic into two languages. One is VB.NET, and the other is VB6. I'm more familiar with the VB.NET one.

Hmm... Now that you mention it, I wonder the same thing. (Originally, I would have assumed your average experiment.)

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Thunder-squall

I have no clue.  But if you got any coding advice, I'll take it.

What do you think about all these public pushes to get kids to do a little bit of computer coding?  Have you heard of stuff like the Arduino, or the Rasberry Pi?  Or Mozilla' Hackasaurus?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#9
Coding advice? It's hard to know what to say without seeing samples of code. Maybe try Java's naming conventions?

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/codeconv-138413.html
http://java.about.com/od/javasyntax/a/nameconventions.htm


QuoteHave you heard of stuff like the Arduino, or the Rasberry Pi?  Or Mozilla' Hackasaurus?
No, I haven't heard of any of those.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Atrius (He/Him)

GML = TLA Editor, among many many other small unfinished projects.
ActionScript = Pretty much recoded Golden Sun's overworked engine in it.
Visual Basic = Raycasting engine made in Excel. (Think Doom/Wolfenstein)
Java = Forgotten Dreams
JavaScript, Perl, LabVIEW, C/C++ = Work related stuff for remotely monitoring seismic equipment all over the world, as well as TLA Editor's DLL in C++
PHP = This website

I've tinkered with Arduinos before.  My last creation was a Wii Pro Controller dongle that could wirelessly connect a Wii controller to a computer and make it work like a normal PC gamepad without running any special software on the computer.

I remember when I was kid all we had was ZZT/Megazeux as an alternative to harder programming languages to make our own games.  I'm a huge supporter of anything that it more accessible to beginners.
[sprite=220,4,0]I'm shaking my head in general disapproval of everything[/sprite]

Thunder-squall

^ that sounds epic.  When I was a kid, I had mud (which is surprisingly versatile).

I think the naming convention stuff is perhaps the first thing people should be told.  Because I actually started with Java, I tend to use "mixed case" in my day to day writing (For example you might catch me writing GoldenSun or theWorldEndsWithYou on occasion), but I don't particularly use anything else (i.e. with constants and tables).  I'm eventually going to start putting up some lua code as part of the mini-project I've announced, and I'm totally open to advice on naming conventions.  I predict that's going to be the easiest thing that I can change that's really going to make a difference in terms of long term collaborations and stuff.

Thunder-squall

Quote from: Atrius on 05, January, 2014, 12:36:27 PM
ActionScript = Pretty much recoded Golden Sun's overworked engine in it.
Did you use this for anything (did you say you were working on your own project?), or was it just an exercise?  And what all could it do?

Quote from: Atrius on 05, January, 2014, 12:36:27 PM
Visual Basic = Raycasting engine made in Excel. (Think Doom/Wolfenstein)
Java = Forgotten Dreams
...
I'm a huge supporter of anything that it more accessible to beginners.
Lua/Love2D which I'm using now is really accessible (I think I've come a long way in a short period of time), but once I get to a good stopping point, I want to try doing the same stuff in either Java or VB, just to learn (since it's unlikely there'll be momentum for a larger project).

I'm inclined to starting with VB, but Tea seems to have chosen Java.  So what's that about?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

I have chosen both, in fact, since Yoshi Magic (Mario & Luigi editor) was done in VB.NET. The first real ROM hacking project I ever did. (And Salanewt was supposed to be involved in its creation as well, but I guess he didn't really do that much....)

I think what you mean is that I have chosen Java for the new editor.

As for choosing between VB and Java... I'm not sure which one you should go with... Random Link: http://theopensourcery.com/vbjava2.htm
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Thunder-squall

cool link!  I guess I'll do both.  I basically need to be able to do three things, and you guys tell me if you think this will be a problem with either Java or VB:

1.  Have tables that include tables.  Or arrays that include arrays. For example, my current map looks like:
map={
     cell={}, -- this cell will have a list of columns, which have a list of rows. so there's stuff like cell[c][r].elevation=0, or whatever.
     object={}, -- each will have a object[j].c, object[j].r, and object.[j].draw()
}

2. The ability to easily draw rectangles on screen, and to read and display (I don't think I need to reproduce the pseudo 3D thing).

3.  Use For and If functions... I don't think I use anything more complicated than that.

That all seems like basic stuff.  How many levels of tutorials do you think I'd need to go through in order to do that in Java or VB?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#15
1.)  2-dimensional arrays? Normally, I like to flatten it out to 1-dimensional (Even with maps), but that's just me.

VB.NET = http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/7ee5a7s1.aspx

Dim variable(rows, columns) as DataType


Java

dataType variable = value;

I think when you do arrays in Java, you also use the new keyword.

Example: int variable[] = new int[number];


2.) In VB.NET, using the Paint handler with e.Graphics.drawrectangle should do. http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/Drawing_Graphics_in_Visual_Basic

I haven't looked into that on Java.


3.) Simple stuff..

VB.NET:

For variable as DataType = number To number Step number

Next

(Step might not be required if its value is 1.)


If condition Then

End If

(Note that End If isn't required if it's only on one line.)


Java:

for (dataType variable = number; condition; operation) {

}

if (condition) {

}


condition example: i<8
operation examples: i++, ++i, i+=1, etc.



If you want to have fewer numbers (or something), consider using for each when appropriate.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Thunder-squall

Quote from: Teawater on 13, January, 2014, 11:51:00 PM
1.)  2-dimensional arrays? Normally, I like to flatten it out to 1-dimensional (Even with maps), but that's just me.

VB.NET = http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/7ee5a7s1.aspx

Dim variable(rows, columns) as DataType


Alright, I was overwhelmed by your post, and had no idea what was going on in that link.  I have two options with which to progress:

1) Go off on my own, and start with "Hello World."
2)  If there was enough interest from other forum-members, would you lead a sort of virtual class?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#17
Okay, sorry for such a bad post, but I have a feeling that this is the type of stuff better to do in live chats. (Like texting on Skype.) The reason being is that questions can be answered one at a time with ease.

What exactly did you have in mind when you said virtual class? (Is this something to do with an external website?)

Either way, I suppose it is a good idea to do some of the tutorials like Hello World to start with, since you can learn a thing or two as a beginner.


Usually, I find myself going back to the same websites when I try to learn something about a language, so don't be afraid to scan the docs when visiting notable sites.

For Visual Basic, it's msdn. For Java, I believe it's oracle. But then there are general programming help sites like stackoverflow.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Thunder-squall

I say you should make a thread and let people 'sign' up.  And if enough people sign up, then you'll know it's worth it for you to put in the effort.

Basically, I imagine you'd just give us small weekly assignments, and we'd then work together to get them done.  Sort of like an apprenticeship.  And you could basically groom us to help you with what you're doing.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Done. How many people do you suggest would be enough to be worth it for me to put in the effort?

Hmm.... Any ideas about how small these weekly assignments would be? Would it be like making a checkers or chess game? Or a bit simpler than that?
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)