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World Building

Started by Thunder-squall, 29, April, 2014, 11:11:01 PM

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Rolina

Insulting the fandom like that isn't going to get anyone to listen to you, you know.

Kain

GM NOTICE:  Anymore fighting, no matter who you are, will result in a days suspension.  If you come back and start this crap again I WILL ban you for three days.

"B-But, muh argumen-"

I don't care who is right and who is wrong, I said no fighting and I expect that to be followed.
You misspelled retard...oh the irony!

Luna_blade

Quote from: Rolina on 02, May, 2014, 07:35:43 PM
Okay, so if Weyard is flat, then what size is the planet below?  Weyard holds several continents within it, with the approximate surface area of the Planet Earth.  If Weyard sits atop a fully round planet with proper Newtonian physics, then I have two questions...
First, why is Weyard not being drawn to this supermassive planet?  How is it not crushed by such enormous gravitational forces?
Second, how big is Weyard in relation to the planet?  Weyard has a full planetary ecosystem.  Two poles and a tropical zone.  Using newtonian physics, Weyard would have to be positioned in juuuust the right way that such a thing could even be possible - but if it's just a floating mass on a much larger supermassive planet, then why doesn't it have a unified/homogenized ecosystem?  Why is it full planetary scale, when your claim is literally that it's not the size of a planet?
I think it is because of Alchemy that Weyard can even continue existing in such position.
Thus making it logical that when Alchemy was sealed, Weyard crumbled away.
Quote from: KyleRunnerWorld: Weyard
Planet: ??? ==> insert anything our minds can build, as long there's no lore contradiction.

I guess my dichotomy is a little hard to understand...? Maybe the people, whose World is Weyard, can't even imagine there are inumerous others in the same Planet.

Dichotomy "World" and "Planet".
Hmmm something like we can't imagine enternity or other dimensions?
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 02, May, 2014, 11:01:01 PM
Magic and zol.  Weyard is a world of both magic and science, just as psyenergy adepts use both science and magic. I suspect the planet is a gas giant, and Weyard could be very much like a moon to it, or a satellite. The more popular opinion is that it's an elevated plateau, but I'm personally exploring the likelihood of it being a floating ark, due to the 'rule of cool' potential, and also just the evidence as I see it.
What is the Rule of Cool?
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 02, May, 2014, 11:01:01 PM
There's more here to discuss, but for the time being this information is sufficient to support the idea that Weyard defies the laws of physics using Magic, and if it stops defying the laws of physics, it will cease to be.  I believe this supports my thesis that Weyard is a satellite to a planet, and I believe this is an argument against the "Weyard is just an elevated plateau" argument.
What's on the other side then? I very much like to know how that works.
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 02, May, 2014, 11:01:01 PM
I believe the summons in Dark Dawn resemble characters that exist or once existed, and what I find striking about them is the fusion of magic and tech, as with Thor, and as with Judgement.
Summons of DD = Summons of GS1&2?
Anyway, I can agree on that. the real question is what kind of races they were, since we don't know if the beasts/persons we get to see in the summon is just a spiritual representation of the person.
And how did they seal themselves in Tablets or connected to the djinni's?
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 02, May, 2014, 11:01:01 PM
A lot of mythology speaks about the cusp of light and dark (typically through metaphors of sex between father sky and mother earth), and that brief union is where the human world (typically flat) is created.  I think it is neatest and most narratively powerful origin story that could apply to Weyard, and a spiritual variant of Occam's razor would compel me to assume that that's true.  If I consider that origin story, and the applicability of science in that world, then I get the following picture:  The universes contain balls of light and dark energy, and when they interact, magic happens.  And magic could happen differently each time, which means that Earth and Weyard could exist in the same universe, while following different magical rules. This being true would be a vital boon to the series, and have the same benefits that Star Wars gets from being in the same world as ours, but at a different time and a different place.
Okay you mean REAL mythology right?
And about the energy balls: I guess you think that Void is seperated from Dark then?
"Hear the sounds and melodies
Of rilets flowing down
They're the verlasting songs
Whispering all the time
As a warning that behind some rocks
There's a rigid grap even
Oreads fear the tread"

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#23
(Just here asking a bunch of questions... Not arguing.)
Quote from: Luna_blade on 06, May, 2014, 03:20:46 AM
Quote from: Rolina on 02, May, 2014, 07:35:43 PM
Okay, so if Weyard is flat, then what size is the planet below?  Weyard holds several continents within it, with the approximate surface area of the Planet Earth.  If Weyard sits atop a fully round planet with proper Newtonian physics, then I have two questions...
First, why is Weyard not being drawn to this supermassive planet?  How is it not crushed by such enormous gravitational forces?
Second, how big is Weyard in relation to the planet?  Weyard has a full planetary ecosystem.  Two poles and a tropical zone.  Using newtonian physics, Weyard would have to be positioned in juuuust the right way that such a thing could even be possible - but if it's just a floating mass on a much larger supermassive planet, then why doesn't it have a unified/homogenized ecosystem?  Why is it full planetary scale, when your claim is literally that it's not the size of a planet?
I think it is because of Alchemy that Weyard can even continue existing in such position.
Thus making it logical that when Alchemy was sealed, Weyard crumbled away.
Agreed.

-How long ago was it that Alchemy was sealed?
-How quickly does Weyard diminish?
-If both of these questions are answered, will it be easier to know how much bigger Weyard was when Alchemy was sealed? I mean, does it crumble away at a constant pace, or a varying pace?

Quote
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 02, May, 2014, 11:01:01 PM
Magic and zol.  Weyard is a world of both magic and science, just as psyenergy adepts use both science and magic. I suspect the planet is a gas giant, and Weyard could be very much like a moon to it, or a satellite. The more popular opinion is that it's an elevated plateau, but I'm personally exploring the likelihood of it being a floating ark, due to the 'rule of cool' potential, and also just the evidence as I see it.
What is the Rule of Cool?
I'm guessing she thinks the floating ark will have a better chance at being awesome to players?  That's what I assume without looking it up... But here's a link anyway... to the endless pages of tvtropes you go! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool

Quote
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 02, May, 2014, 11:01:01 PM
There's more here to discuss, but for the time being this information is sufficient to support the idea that Weyard defies the laws of physics using Magic, and if it stops defying the laws of physics, it will cease to be.  I believe this supports my thesis that Weyard is a satellite to a planet, and I believe this is an argument against the "Weyard is just an elevated plateau" argument.
What's on the other side then? I very much like to know how that works.
I wonder that too... but it could be a black hole like in Super Mario Galaxy... XD.... Hmm... Or maybe it's just solid?



---
QuoteVoid is seperated from Dark then?
Light=1
Dark=0 (Or is it -1?)
Void=Undefined, so if evaluated, forced to 0? Not sure, just a random thought.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Rolina

I don't think Void has been either defined or even addressed in Golden Sun.  The closest thing we have is Void Beam, which is a Jupiter Element attack.

Lord Wolfram

We just can't take a loot of stuff from final fantasy.
And not the idea of Power of universe the void!
This is how I think.
Lighthouses are creatures of alchemy and they create our world.
Give to wejard energy and gives a lot of minerals.
Because of that oceans never dry.(Mercury)
And so going.
Place where is wejard is somewhere in universe.

Luna_blade

Quote from: Teawater on 07, May, 2014, 06:27:34 PM
-How long ago was it that Alchemy was sealed?
... IDK
Quote from: Teawater on 07, May, 2014, 06:27:34 PM
-How quickly does Weyard diminish?
-If both of these questions are answered, will it be easier to know how much bigger Weyard was when Alchemy was sealed? I mean, does it crumble away at a constant pace, or a varying pace?
It might just crumble faster when there is Elemental disharmony...
I think it is constant, but I don't think that is the case for the Flip-side theory or the Alchemic Exchange theory.
And yes we would easily know the size... If we knew Weyards current size...
Quote from: Teawater on 07, May, 2014, 06:27:34 PM
I'm guessing she thinks the floating ark will have a better chance at being awesome to players?  That's what I assume without looking it up... But here's a link anyway... to the endless pages of tvtropes you go! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool
Ah now I get it. Yeah it would be something in that case.

Quote from: Teawater on 07, May, 2014, 06:27:34 PM
I wonder that too... but it could be a black hole like in Super Mario Galaxy... XD.... Hmm... Or maybe it's just solid?
Black hole :happy: It would have been a Psynergy vortex in GS though.
I meant more like: "What's there?" I don't even know if the sun can shine there... speaking about that: Would the floating Weyard be in orbit?
Quote from: Teawater on 07, May, 2014, 06:27:34 PM
Light=1
Dark=0 (Or is it -1?)
Void=Undefined, so if evaluated, forced to 0? Not sure, just a random thought.
Perhaps. Or Void is just nothing.
Quote from: RolinaI don't think Void has been either defined or even addressed in Golden Sun.  The closest thing we have is Void Beam, which is a Jupiter Element attack.
That's right. But I think Psynergy vortexes might just symbolize void. If this is proven wrong, we might as well forget about the whole void thing.

Quote from: SaturosWe just can't take a loot of stuff from final fantasy.
Uhh for theories we can. As long as it doesn't overwrite any excisting piece of information. If this happens you may notify me.
Quote from: SaturosAnd not the idea of Power of universe the void!
I'm sorry. I don't quite understand what you are saying here.
"Hear the sounds and melodies
Of rilets flowing down
They're the verlasting songs
Whispering all the time
As a warning that behind some rocks
There's a rigid grap even
Oreads fear the tread"

Rolina

Actually, I think the lighthouses were created to Extract the elements, not imbue the world with them.  Think of them like giant oil-derricks, with the shining start being that flame at the top.  There would be little need for them to exist from the start of the world, and we already know that the Luna Tower - a tower essentially identical in nature to the lighthouses - was created by the ancient Jenai.  I'm willing to bet that they were created in an effort to extract the essence of alchemy and seal it away - and that by putting the stars back into them what you're basically doing is sending that power back in the simplest way possible.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#28
Hmm... I'm guessing it doesn't crumble away at a constant pace, but at a varying one because of dialogue in Lemuria. The crumbling happens faster the more psynergy is used.

QuoteHydros - http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Hydros

    In Lemuria's palace:

    Hydros: Ever since Alchemy was sealed away, the world has been cut off from its nourishment. It has gone into a state akin to hibernation.
    Kraden: By using less energy, Weyard prolongs its life...
    Hydros: Yet when hibernating, the being has only stopped its own clock... not the flow of time around it.
    Kraden: When a bear sleeps through the winter, it needs only wait for spring to come...When it awakens, it can nourish its weakened body again...
    Piers: But if spring never comes, the bear will eventually die...
    Lunpa: Weyard is wasting away. Its continents shrinking, because its spring has never come.

---
The elements, when combined, form the Golden Sun. So to seal Alchemy, we separate the four elements? Hmm...
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Luna_blade

Yeah, but we don't know for sure if using Psynergy affects the total ammount of it, do we?
I mean, If you would cast an earthquake, wouldn't the power be returned to the land? Or the respective element for that matter?

Quote from: TeawaterThe elements, when combined, form the Golden Sun. So to seal Alchemy, we separate the four elements? Hmm...
I guess that's true. I forgot that we actually need to think from where Psynergy came from, not what we have now...
"Hear the sounds and melodies
Of rilets flowing down
They're the verlasting songs
Whispering all the time
As a warning that behind some rocks
There's a rigid grap even
Oreads fear the tread"

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#30
I dunno...

The idea of this energy thing makes Weyard itself seem like a living being. Since it does take energy for people to move, it also takes energy for Weyard to move as well... if you cast Earthquake, then Weyard is using its energy to grant your wish. (The psynergy you are casting.) More or less a theory...

And yeah, I guess we need to know where Psynergy first came from? (Ex: Which came first, the chicken or the egg... :) )
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Lord Wolfram

Luna blade:In ff V Ex-death took that power and was engulfed by it.
look for some info anyway.

Luna_blade

Quote from: Saturos on 08, May, 2014, 01:57:38 PM
Luna blade:In ff V Ex-death took that power and was engulfed by it.
look for some info anyway.
Oh i know very well what you're talking about.
But why should we FF theories for GS? Some of the FF games show many similarities with GS.
Quote from: TeawaterThe idea of this energy thing makes Weyard itself seem like a living being. Since it does take energy for people to move, it also takes energy for Weyard to move as well... if you cast Earthquake, then Weyard is using its energy to grant your wish. (The psynergy you are casting.) More or less a theory...
Yeah sure is  theory.
Quote from: TeawaterAnd yeah, I guess we need to know where Psynergy first came from? (Ex: Which came first, the chicken or the egg... :) )
We can't really determine.

My theory about that has to do with the races.
Quote from: Luna_bladeAdepts (magic/alchemy users) can be every living being. It is either given through exposure to Alchemy or through blood (I can't find the word for given through family bond/birth).
However some humans clearly have strong abilities and I thought there was more behind that.
Like said in the previous post, there were originally four main races that could harness the power of the elements. A part of each of those groups, after centuries of breeding with humans, was almost no different, except for the ability of being able to use Psyenergy. Example:
The dragons bred so long with the humans until the Proxians came into existence.
Mercury clan, same deal. Etc.

Only a part of each of those groups did this however. So I'm not sure what to do with those. Perhaps they became monsters (dragons, golems) Or fled or hid in Weyard.
Also found this topic. Might be some inspiration (I've not read it before).
http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2123.msg38039#msg38039
"Hear the sounds and melodies
Of rilets flowing down
They're the verlasting songs
Whispering all the time
As a warning that behind some rocks
There's a rigid grap even
Oreads fear the tread"

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

QuoteYeah sure is  theory.
Yeah... since that bit of dialogue in Lemuria compared Weyard to a bear.

QuoteAdepts (magic/alchemy users) can be every living being. It is either given through exposure to Alchemy or through blood (I can't find the word for given through family bond/birth).
Genetics?
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Luna_blade

@Genetics: Perhaps yes. Or magic/Psynergy through blood.
You might to check the topic I linked above. (which I still haven't read)
"Hear the sounds and melodies
Of rilets flowing down
They're the verlasting songs
Whispering all the time
As a warning that behind some rocks
There's a rigid grap even
Oreads fear the tread"

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Quote
Cultural Dictionary

genetics definition

The study of heredity, or how the characteristics of living things are transmitted from one generation to the next. Every living thing contains the genetic material that makes up DNA molecules. This material is passed on when organisms reproduce. The basic unit of heredity is the gene. ( See chromosomes; dominant trait; genetic code; Gregor Mendel; recessive trait; and sexual reproduction.)
So would magic/Psynergy through blood go under Genetics, or would it be under a different thing like what your post seems to imply?
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Luna_blade

Well it is something inhereted in this case. Like bacteria in the intestines are recieved from the mother.

Anyway, for clarification: I haven't gave this alot of thought and I'm not sure waht to think about it.
"Hear the sounds and melodies
Of rilets flowing down
They're the verlasting songs
Whispering all the time
As a warning that behind some rocks
There's a rigid grap even
Oreads fear the tread"

Rolina

@Sealing Alchemy:  It's likely that sealing away each of the four elements individually was the easier way do do things, rather than sealing it all into one large Sol Star or something.  Kinda like how it's easier to tackle a big project one section at a time.


Edit:  Wow, you guys talk a lot while I'm at work.

Luna_blade

That's a nice comparison.

@To much post in between being offline: I changed my status just for that previous week. But I guess I can keep up with it again.
"Hear the sounds and melodies
Of rilets flowing down
They're the verlasting songs
Whispering all the time
As a warning that behind some rocks
There's a rigid grap even
Oreads fear the tread"