Golden Sun Inspired Creature Tokens for Tabletop Games (ex: D&D)

[Rolina]

Long time no see.  I've been working on a D&D 4e setting loosely based on the GS world.  I've got some setting rules in place that change the game up a bit - namely that in creating your character, you choose one element as an affinity, and one as a weakness.  That affinity gets a 25% damage reduction, and weakness causes you to take 25% more from it.  Here's the thing, though - all creatures follow this rule.  Even the monsters.  I'm using a six-element system, using Radiant, Necrotic, Fire, Cold, Lightning, and Acid damage as the damage types that follow the rule.

So here's the thing - I'm using golden sun as a slight basis for the world, so I'm gonna use sprites to represent the monsters.  I was wondering which monsters and poses (animation frames) you think would be cool to use.  For example, I'm thinking for a Gryphon I could you the first frame of animation for Idle and the first frame for attacking as a couple of pics to represent them on the board.  

[Rolina]

Here's a sample of what I'm thinking I'll do.  



I've got a few variants for the creature so as to tell multiple instances of them apart, as well as multiple colors for any hypothetical situations that may arise.  I don't plan to have all my campaigns to be super serious, so some strange situations, such as a Gryphon with a more reptilian body and wings like a flying fish jumping out of the ocean may show up for all I know, along with some witty remark about how such a silly thing came to be.  I plan to have fun with this thing...

I'm gonna be making quite a bit of these - you know those flat plastic disc-like tubes that you can find stuff like makeup in?  The idea is to buy a bunch of empty ones of those and have the top side be the standard pose for this guy, and to flip it over to show the "knocked prone" pic any time it's prone.  I'll be doing this with all the monsters, and will likely share them with y'all if you ever decide to take advantage of them in some way.  I'll be getting all the stuff I need to GM this game over the next several months, and will likely take a full month to prepare all the stuff I need for the setting and campaign, so feel free to give any suggestions you may have for variant use for monsters and stuff that I've not posted up.

[Kain]

Long time no see indeed.  Nice to see you're doing well, and this looks kinda cool.

[Thunder-squall]

Are you looking for sprites for

> a virtual table top?
> Printed out 2D tokens for a live table top?
> something else?

I'm gonna be making quite a bit of these - you know those flat plastic disc-like tubes that you can find stuff like makeup in?  The idea is to buy a bunch of empty ones of those and have the top side be the standard pose for this guy, and to flip it over to show the "knocked prone" pic any time it's prone.

nevermind, got it.  Can't picture it, but...

If they're plastic disks, then why not use colored film to add the colors?  I'm not sure how much cheaper it'll be, or if it'll *actually* be more versatile, but if you like the hand-craft aspect of making these, then that'd be something cool to try out.

How often are characters knocked prone in your games?  I haven't seen it happen to monsters very often.

As an aside, my group accidentally found out that beer bottle caps work *excellently* for representing enemies, and even distinguishing player characters from the bad guys (since miniatures all tend to look the same, and you can't always tell good guy from bad guy).  Combine bottle caps with twisted paper clips and flat print outs of monster sprites, and I think you'll have fairly cheap, versatile, and effective tokens.

[Rolina]

Gonna print them out and use them as actual creature tokens.  I figured you guys would have fun suggesting which poses I would use, and could even take advantage of the final work if you wanted to run your own campaign.

[Thunder-squall]

ninja'd.  Yeah, see previous edit.

But on the subject, I'm not really inspired to suggest poses.  And in fact, what I'd do is print out an entire sprite sheet, and use a different sprite for each instance of the monster, rather than having each monster have the same exact appearance.

Combine a monochrome printing with the colored-film technique, and I think you'll have all the variety you'd need or want, without doing too much printing.

[Rolina]

First time GM, so I don't know.  I don't even know what my group will create for their team.  Still, I wanna be prepared for whatever.  If you've got some experience GMing, I'd more than welcome any advice you've got to share.

[Thunder-squall]

I have experience playing in a game where the GM made custom mechanics -- Don't do it.  From the player's perspective, it's like playing a game where the rules aren't certain anymore, and all the stuff you thought you could do, you can't.  That makes it horrible to play, and very hard for the GM who then finds herself needing to change the rules and rebalance on a weekly basis.

If you're a first time GM, please, please, please just use a module.  Most won't last more than 2-3 sessions, so it's a pretty short commitment, and you can get your feet wet.  *Then* start experimenting a little.

The benefit of using a pre-existing system like DnD or PathFinder is that they've done most of the work for you.  As a GM, you're then in a position of "modding" the game.  Modding the story is easy and inconsequential.  Modding the mechanics is a horrible, horrible idea for most people.

The alternative is to work with your players and get on the same page that y'all are play testing.  In which case what you want to do isn't a long term game, but one-off skirmishes, where you test play aspects of the game.  I think that could be fun for everyone, because not everyone knows what they want to play, or what the style of the table is going to be like, and this gives everyone a chance to try things out.

Then again, DnD v4?  I hear that's a bit simpler and easier to change around, and balancing isn't so much of an issue.  Still, you don't want the GM and players to have different expectations on what's possible, or you're constantly going to be cramping each others' styles.  This is why I'd advise against making changes to the core stuff the games provide you.

Sorry for being a downer.  Also, it's a fantasy that "you can be prepared for everything."  The reason why you want to stick with the core stuff provided by the games is because they explicitly make it easy to make up stuff that makes sense, because the rules are consistent between what the players expect, and what the GM expects.  The more stuff you change or mod, the less easy it'll be to come up with anything.

[Rolina]

Most of what I'm changing are what the monsters are called and what they look like.  I'll be strictly using things found in the monster manual, though.  I don't know enough about the game to actually create or homebrew monsters, so for the most part the setting will be flavor.

[Thunder-squall]

I think that'll work, and is what most GMs advise.

Most GMs I've played with have gotten a few games in, and then express the desire to have done things differently.  So I still advise starting with relatively short modules.  It'll let you build your world slowly and organically.

[Rolina]

Yeah, most of the changes will be flavor, to fit the setting. That's why I'm using these monster sprites, because the setting is inspired by GS.  But I'm still using the Four Power Sources - Martial, Divine, Arcane, and Primal - rather than trying to mod it to be more like GS's system.  I simply don't know enough about D&D to understand how to mod it well, and actually don't think it'd even be a good idea.  I'll be asking my players to, amongst themselves, come up with a team that has a balance of the Four Roles, the Four Power Sources, and to pick four different races.  That way it's balanced and diverse, fitting the setting and story I'd like to tell.  However, what that story is will depend on the characters themselves - there's no way in hell I'm gonna waste a potentially awesome resource like the backstories they come up with for their characters.

The only real rule change I'm enforcing is that I think 4e's changes to alignment are BS.  I'll be using 3.5e's alignment system, since I very much do believe there is such a thing as Lawful Evil and Chaotic Good.  Otherwise, half the cast of Star Wars wouldn't exist.

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

Welcome back, Role!

I take it that I'm going to have to look up D&D (Dungeons & Dragons) to understand this game?

Also, would this topic fit better in Creative Works? (Can't tell, but it still fits here as well... since it's Gaming... but the title seems to put more emphasis on the tokens than the game.)

[Thunder-squall]

To see the game in action, rather than reading the rules, you could search youtube for people who run DnD, PathFinder, or other game systems.  I personally did this when I was looking into GMing styles, and it can be quite a trip.  I'd point out

======================

This guy's channel.  "What would Anderson do?"  He's got a specific style and a specific creed.  He's got a lot of shorter videos you can check out to get a taste, and then much, much longer play tests of his custom game, which you're less likely to be able to commit to watching.  But if the shorter videos win you over, you may find yourself wanting to give the longer videos a shot. If you did, you'll observe how much slower his games go, but how much more meaningful they seem.  It's a stye many GMs go for but don't often achieve.

But really I recommend just watching his shorter stuff, and only based on the topics you're interested in.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCClLyw9A_TYGtAT-6Rs2pGQ

======================

A much more managable and standard experience would be people playing through PathFinder's Rise of the Rune Lords.  In fact, you could just youtube : "rise of the runelords session 1," and then see how different people run the same content.

Here's a 20 minute chunk I'd recommend.  The GM is commendable, and the style of the game is both casual and immersive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYJPWjLaCyA

[Thunder-squall]

Side Question (@ Rolina):  I own the 4e Red Beginner's Box, but the only campaigns I've been in were v3.5, or Pathfinder, and made extensive use of online System Reference Documents (SRDs) for rules and options and the like.  I.e. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/, which is excellent in every regard.

I just searched for something similar for DnD 4e, but found pitifully little, perhaps explained by http://www.d20source.com/2008/06/4e-srd-is-out-we-still-have-to-buy-the-books

So I'll ask, given that DnD Next is expected to release this summer, and 3.5 and PathFinder are essentially free to play, why v4?

Is it easier to learn and teach?  More streamlined to play?  Did some friends give you their old books?  Have you already been playing v4 forever, and so everyone already knows what the deals are?

[Rolina]

I listen to Critical Hit, a D&D 4e podcast.  That's where my understanding and my eagerness to do this comes from.  4e has those things you mentioned, but they're limited.  I'd rather get all the books and the Essentials Book all the rules, as it has more updated Errata.  Also, I'll be going to my gaming store to recruit people to play.  I don't have any friends around here - had bad luck with the local age groups.  Nobody to relate to.

[Thunder-squall]

Critical Hit was the one 4e podcast I listened to as well.  I followed their intro session up until about the point where they teamed up with the gnome and took on the poison dragon thing on the airship... It was a long time ago.  I haven't kept up.

Rolld20.net seems to be all the rage with my friends who are trying to stay in touch via gaming.  It'll probably be right up your alley if you're a consistent Skype user.  Give it a shot.

If you're looking for local friends, check if there's a Pathfinder Society nearby.  They tend to be super friendly, and they're designed to be open to people dropping in and out, so there's little risk to dipping your toes in.

But my question remains: Why use 4e if it's the most expensive option, and if support for it is ending anyway?

[Rolina]

Familiarity, mostly.  NEXT isn't out yet, so I can't really get any stuffs for it, and my only experience with 3.5e is videogames, where it obviously doesn't work the same.  Plus, for the purposes of this thread, I can easily transfer these to NEXT assuming it comes out before I start.  I'll also be making tokens for ongoing effect markers, as well as some stuff for players who didn't bring their own figurine/token.

[Rolina]

Hmm, I just thought of another way to do the colors.  Each color corresponds to a different colored d20.  This lets you roll for multiple targets at the same time in a burst/blast.  It'd be ideal for being efficient with determining who gets hit in AoEs.  Luckily, damage is the same for all but critical hits in the area, assuming I've got my rules correct.