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Author Topic: Elemental Weapons  (Read 6909 times)
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jjppof
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« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2014, 09:58:26 AM »

So, to crit, first I have to do 1/32 check. If It's applied, the crit is released without any equipment boost. If it isn't applied, a second check is done with 1/32 chance again, but now, the crit is boosted if there is equipments that can do it.

If first check is applied: ((base damage * 1.25) + (target's level / 5) + 6)
If second check is applied: ((base damage * 1.25) + (target's level / 5) + 6) * (equipBoost(%) + 100%)


And all this has nothing to do with weapon unleash whose chance is almost always 35% and formula is EPA, right?

Another doubt is whether the equip crit booster increases only crits or crits and weapon unleashes?

Confusing...
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« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2014, 11:41:33 AM »

I think it applies to both, but crit chance is only checked when unleash doesn't go off.  If you have all crit gear and you equip a mundane weapon such as a greatsword, it'll still have a super high critical hit chance.
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Fox
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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2014, 01:10:26 PM »

-Don't think I mentioned anything on equipment boosts. (Except for Increases Criticals and Unleash Rates.)
-On the second check, I don't think you do the 1/32 check again. That's what the first check was for.
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jjppof
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« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2014, 02:39:52 PM »

-Don't think I mentioned anything on equipment boosts. (Except for Increases Criticals and Unleash Rates.)

Sorry, then. That was what I understood from this:

Adds up Increases Criticals values from equipped items

English isn't my native language. Sometimes I have some difficults to understand stuff. I confused crit chance boost with damage boost.

Well... I'm completely lost.

Let me explain how the system currently is:

For each regular attack a test to crit is done. The chance of this test be positive is 1/32 + equips chance increases. If the test is positive I apply this formula:
((base damage * 1.25) + (target's level / 5) + 6)
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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2014, 07:10:05 PM »

I'm not actually sure why GS uses such a convoluted way to determine crits, but if you're aiming for accuracy you need two checks:

Check 1: [1/32] chance to crit.
Check 2 (if check 1 failed): [(Increased Criticals)/2] chance to crit.

If either check succeeds, apply the formula: [(base damage * 1.25) + (target's level / 5) + 6]

Intuitively, unleashes should have priority over normal crits. The check for an unleash is: [(Base unleash rate) + (Increased Criticals)] chance for unleash.
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Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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jjppof
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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2014, 07:49:09 PM »

I'm not actually sure why GS uses such a convoluted way to determine crits, but if you're aiming for accuracy you need two checks:

Check 1: [1/32] chance to crit.
Check 2 (if check 1 failed): [(Increased Criticals)/2] chance to crit.

If either check succeeds, apply the formula: [(base damage * 1.25) + (target's level / 5) + 6]

Intuitively, unleashes should have priority over normal crits. The check for an unleash is: [(Base unleash rate) + (Increased Criticals)] chance for unleash.

Nooow I understood... why two damn checks... and moreover divided by 2 the second one. hahahahaha

Just a question only to ensure, if I dont have increased criticals, the second check is null, right?
0/2 = 0%
just to be sure..
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 07:50:48 PM by jjppof » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2014, 08:26:47 PM »

Yeah. If you have no increased critical rate, the second critical check has 0 chance of being true.

Divided by 2 because that's how it works. Increased Critical effects increase your actual critical rate by 1/2 the stated amount, but increase your Unleash rate by the full amount. (In my opinion it should have been done the opposite way, but I didn't make the game.)

Also, @Teawater's edit on last page: Do Ability Effects 41-44 also use the "+ (target's level / 5) + 6" part of the equation? I think we know for sure that 65, 68, and 89 do not. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure 42 and 44 also do not use it... 41 and 43 are unused?
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« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2014, 09:15:56 PM »

Quote
Also, @Teawater's edit on last page: Do Ability Effects 41-44 also use the "+ (target's level / 5) + 6" part of the equation? I think we know for sure that 65, 68, and 89 do not. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure 42 and 44 also do not use it... 41 and 43 are unused?
No, I don't think they do. Just 36-40, and Ability 1 (Attack.) From which I know of.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 09:17:27 PM by Teawater » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

May the force be with you!
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Maybe that's the wrong kind of force. *smirk*
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jjppof
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« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2014, 09:23:46 PM »

This divided by two...
If someone want a item to get 100% of crit, he has to put 200% of chance?
I think I'm gonna take this /2 off...
What you guys think?
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JamietheFlameUser
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« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2014, 09:48:11 PM »

I have no particular objections. Actually, I'd be inclined to put the /2 on Unleash Rate.

So the Unleash check is: [(Base Unleash rate) + (Increases Criticals / 2)]% chance for an unleash.

This would mean that if you want to get a 99% unleash rate (it is impossible to have 100% unleash rate in GS. The game hard-caps it at 99%), you have to put +128% worth of Increases Critical effects. Since Unleashes have a general tendency to be much more powerful than a standard critical hit, and have priority over criticals, this makes sense to me.
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Rolina
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« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2014, 02:47:01 AM »

Eh, but that's balancing.  He's going for a 1:1 replication. Hax included.
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leaf
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« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2014, 09:00:01 AM »

Yeah, leave the /2. In practice, weapons without an unleash are rarely used, and by the time you even start getting equipment that raises crit rate, you'll probably be using artifacts almost exclusively anyway.
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Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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JamietheFlameUser
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2014, 04:21:08 PM »

Well, jippof was the one who suggested taking it off.

If you're going for a 1:1 recreation, the /2 has to stay on Critical chance.

If you're not, I'd recommend putting it on Unleash chance's Increases Criticals modifier instead, as described in my previous post.
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jjppof
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« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2014, 06:54:33 PM »

I'll let naturally with /2 and a option for who wants to take it off.
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