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Author Topic: Master Formula List  (Read 41679 times)
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Salanewt
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2014, 11:55:02 PM »

I think it might have actually been a little bit before your return in... was it November? You can catch up on the discussion here if you'd like, but it's more or less just us doing some practice calculations and basic balancing discussion.


But anyway. Unless Teawater wants to post it later, I'll see if I can search through that topic where they were discussing critical hit rate stuff and add it to the first post at some point. Can you think of any other formulas that should be added and/or researched? I know that the wiki(s) have a bunch, but I'd rather not search them and give myself a migraine just yet.
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Fox
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2014, 12:18:34 AM »

Rolina did know about it at one point, she just forgot about it.

Remember this post? http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2067.msg37426#msg37426
Rolina posted before /and/ after it. On the same day, too.

Critical Hit Rate stuff was discussed in one of the DCrisis sections, http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2448.0

EDIT: What do you think about moving Joao's topics out of the DCrisis section?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 12:43:43 AM by Teawater » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

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leaf
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2014, 04:08:06 AM »

They probably shouldn't have been in dc to begin with, so yes. Move them out of there and into the general gs hacking forum.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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jjppof
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2014, 07:19:55 PM »


Let me see if I understood this agility formula for PCs:

First check:
Calculates speed for each char

speed = {AGI + [(AGI * rand(0, 65535))>>20]}*k

k = 1, if PCs first move in turn,
k = 0.5, if PCs second or more move in turn

Second Check:

Check the max speeds and correct it id needed:
PC1: 999
PC2: 940
PC3: 884
PC4: 832

Third check:

If a certain PCs speed is the same of a enemy, PC goes first.

Fourth check:

The most left char has priority.
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leaf
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2014, 07:42:52 PM »

Ignore the second check. That's the "practical use" of the formula. Sala was just saying what the highest speeds each char could have if you wanted a consistent turn order, without the rng ever causing a PC of lower agility to move before a PC of higher agility.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Salanewt
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2014, 07:52:35 PM »

Well, the second one isn't a check at all; merely an observation I made when I was researching this. If you cap your characters at those values, then you can guarantee your desired turn order 100% of the time. When you factor in gear, classes, buffs and so forth, then you can change around your turn order fairly easily. Granted, since reaching those agility values isn't very likely, you would almost be further ahead to try figuring out what agility values you would expect your characters to have by the end of the game and work with that.

In other words, exactly what leaf said! I think he once mentioned that dividing those values by two would give you your "practical use caps" for a normal save file.

Other than that, you've got it.


Edit: Healing and Regenerate formulas are up; they are pretty simple as far as calculations go. I probably won't do the HP% ability effects because those don't use a consistent formula, and I likewise won't add any custom formulas until there is a decent collection of vanilla ones in the first post.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 12:13:09 AM by Salanewt » Logged

Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
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« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2014, 10:22:38 PM »

The value returned by the Ailment Success formula is X.
   if X >= rand(0, 65535): the ailment was successful

Is it right?

--------------------------------------------

floor() always rounds down and to a integer?

-------------------------------------------

I didnt understand these 3 terms:

  • effect's base chance - are these values given?
  • vulnerabity's 25
  • unk_arg
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Salanewt
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2014, 11:44:16 PM »

I think in this case, it's actually a random number from 0-99 (x00-x63) and it will always succeed if you get 100% or higher. I should probably add this to the first post...

Floor(luck) rounds down because it doesn't use decimals; for example, a luck value of 60 is pretty much the same as a value of 61 in this case. Both will be 30 when you divide them by 2.


As for the other three terms:

  • Base chance/rate: Yep! There's a spoiler tag in the first post that lists the rates along with most (if not all) of the effects that use those rates. A flat rate means that it doesn't use the formula, while the rest of them will.
  • Vulnerability 25: Each class has three values which correspond to ability effects; if there is a value above 0 in a class, then it will add +25% to the success rate of that effect. Enemies also have these three values that correspond to ability effects. If looking at them in the editor, they will be the numbers at the bottom of the class section and the ones above the elemental tables for enemies.
  • Unk_arg: We're not actually too sure on what it does. Teawater thinks it has something to do with multi-target effects, but I currently have a theory that it might have something to do with whether the "effect only" formula is being used or not. I'm sure one of us will test it in the relatively near future.

I hope this helps!


Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the poison (battle) formula is up! Well, more like a calculation than a formula, but still. It's pretty powerful!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 12:58:39 AM by Salanewt » Logged

Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
View Profile WWW
leaf
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2014, 03:29:45 AM »

Quote
floor() always rounds down and to a integer?
Correct. Floor(25.6) = 25. Floor(25.1) = 25. Floor(25.9999) = 25. etc. It's identical to a truncation for positive numbers, e.g. Floor(25.55) = 25 and Trunc(25.55) = 25, but differs in the case of negative numbers, where Floor(-25.55) = -26, and Trunc(-25.55) = -25. Since we pretty much never deal with negative numbers in games, the difference is mostly academic.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 03:43:10 AM by leaf » Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2014, 09:56:03 PM »

Which 3 values are you saying?
I see 2 values for party members in class section and 4 values for enemies in enemy section.
If one of these values is higher than 0, the Vulnerability  is 0.25? If not, 0?

just few enemies have all 4 fields 0 and they are strange enemies.
Can I let it 0.25 fixed?

And for a while, I will let the unk_arg = 1.

And I didnt undertand the spoiler table with the rates:
 35% (24 - Sleep), for example. The base value is 0.35 or 24?


* enem class.PNG (78.18 KB, 528x421 - viewed 545 times.)

* class actor.PNG (85.91 KB, 527x423 - viewed 500 times.)
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Salanewt
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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2014, 01:46:37 AM »

Oh yeah, I have a slightly different version of the editor that displays those correctly. Um...

The two values in the party editor are actually supposed to be four 8-bit values (with only three of them being used) rather than two 16-bit values. If you convert the number you see in that picture to hex format and separate the numbers, you should have effects x1F and x3C. Converting these to decimal again would give you ability effects 31 (may drain HP) and 60 (recover 50% damage to HP). As far as I can tell, most of the classes only use up to two vulnerability slots each despite three being available. As for the enemy editor, the box on the right does nothing at all; you can pretty much ignore it. Both classes and enemies can have them all at 0, or they can use all three.

I don't really understand what you mean by the ".25 fixed" part, would you mind clarifying that question a bit?

And lastly, the base values are whatever ends with a % symbol. The brackets merely list a bunch of the effects that use those percentages.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 02:00:24 AM by Salanewt » Logged

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Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
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« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2014, 02:19:09 AM »

Nooooooow I got this "class ability"... nice nice nice....

If a certain class havent a certain ability, I let the base 0, right? Its summing...

------ wai-wait..... hahahaha editing.......

If a char has a class that has these abilities:
Sleep and Haunt (2426)

This char will put someone to sleep, so the formula is:

(((((levelRate - floorThing) * 3.0) + 0.35 + 0.25) * unk_arg) / 100.0)

noow... this same char will poison someone else, so the formula is:

(((((levelRate - floorThing) * 3.0) + 0.55 + 0) * unk_arg) / 100.0)

right?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 02:25:57 AM by jjppof » Logged

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Salanewt
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« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2014, 02:37:27 AM »

I think I understand what you're asking now! So...

The base rates in the spoiler are used in the formula regardless of whether a class/enemy is vulnerable to it or not (with the only exceptions being the flat success rates, as those don't use the formula). All a vulnerability does is add +25% to the value calculated earlier in the formula, and it won't do this if the class/enemy does not have a particular vulnerability. I guess it basically makes +0% the default, yeah.


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Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
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« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2014, 07:08:57 PM »

(((((((Attacker's elemental level - Defender's elemental level) - Floor(Defender's luck / 2)) * 3) + effect's base chance + (vulnerabity's 25)) * unk_arg) / 100)  >= rnd())

for the elemental level, what is the element? Which of the four element I choose? Element of the skill I'm casting? Ask is good... hahahahaha


---------------------------

see how the code is:

function state_rate(caster, taker, state_id, skill){
    element = skill.element_id
    levelRate = 0
    if caster.isEnemy
       levelRate = eLevel_Enemy[caster.id][element] - eLevel_Ally[taker.id][element]
    else
       levelRate = eLevel_Ally[caster.id][element] - eLevel_Enemy[taker.id][element]

    floorThing = (caster.luck/2).floor

    baseChance = getBaseChance(state_id)

    unk_arg = 1

    abilities = getAbilities(caster)
    vulnerabity = 0
    if state_id in abilities
       vulnerabity = 0.25 
 
    value = (((((levelRate - floorThing) * 3) + baseChance + vulnerabity) * unk_arg) / 100)
    return value
  }

//in other function....
[...]
if rand(0,99) <= state_rate(caster, taker, state_id, skill)
        add_state(state_id)
[...]
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 09:01:38 PM by jjppof » Logged

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leaf
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« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2014, 04:25:24 AM »

Yes, element of the skill you're casting. So if you're casting haunt, you would use venus elemental levels for the attacker and defender. If you're casting delude, you would use the jupiter elemental levels for the attacker and defender. And so on.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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September 10, 2019, 12:56:51 PM
Fox: Small corrections = If those images were uploaded via an account, you can still get them ... but Sept 16 is the last day.
September 10, 2019, 12:27:46 PM
Fox: I'm suprised many of the badges weren't put on the server... and now that tinypic has deleted them, they're gone forever. xD
September 05, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Frog: wow, it's nice to see this place is still around :o
September 05, 2019, 12:07:44 PM
Fox: "them" as in their posts.
September 05, 2019, 12:07:03 PM
Fox: As in... look at all those users.... paiseo, notto1122,    jirapon, pubg1, nutseo6.... All of them. Are spambots with Thai language in them. xD So many of them... and nothing productive coming from any of them.  I bet it's the same person.
September 04, 2019, 08:48:35 PM
Fox: Every post with Thai language in it. I'm going to immediately assume is spam. For now one, until proven otherwise. xD
August 22, 2019, 12:53:38 PM
Omx7: A shame that I only recently discovered this website. Hopefully, we see Golden Sun 4 in the near future.
August 15, 2019, 04:08:47 PM
Fox: Golden Sun Slacking Community = I like that, Misery! Perfect April Fools joke?
August 13, 2019, 02:37:11 AM
Salanewt: Oh hey Atrius, long time no see!
August 12, 2019, 11:37:45 PM
Fox: (Someone else discovered that, not me.)
August 12, 2019, 11:33:42 PM
Fox: So um. It looks like abilties in the class editor are being put back in as a byte for GS1?
August 12, 2019, 08:02:58 PM
Fox: Also, it seems most of us have moved to the Discord. In case if you were wondering where the forums activity went. Maybe come by and check it out. But it is just a suggestion, you don't have to.
August 12, 2019, 07:57:02 PM
Fox: I figured that was a possibility. If you are guesting, it is hard to know how frequently you check back. It's great to hear from you, though. :)   What have you been up to?  Is Forgotten Dreams still being worked on, or has that been cancelled? (I'd guess you don't have much time for it. It's been years since we've last heard about it.)
August 12, 2019, 12:48:12 AM
KingAmiti: Still great work Atrius :)
August 11, 2019, 06:45:03 PM
Atrius: This place was a HUGE part of my life, and even though I don't have the time that it really deserves to take care of it, I will love it forever, and never forget about it..
August 11, 2019, 05:16:34 PM
Atrius: If anyone wants to make a replacement site then go for it.  Although I plan to keep this place up for the foreseeable future, it isn't really maintained anymore.
August 11, 2019, 05:09:10 PM
Atrius: Sometimes he comes by and looks around without logging in.
August 08, 2019, 11:52:33 AM
Fox: Does Atrius still come here? He hasn't logged in since last year. Maybe it is time to create a replacement site so we can have our full encyclopedia... Then again, I'm too lazy. Especially to get all that done by myself. :/
July 06, 2019, 03:44:41 AM
Salanewt: Oh, yeah there isn't an animation overhaul for GS1 sadly.
July 03, 2019, 04:54:58 PM
ryancaesar12345: GS2 Animation Overhaul w/ Baseline  ips patch in golden sun 1?

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