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Author Topic: Master Formula List  (Read 21415 times)
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Salanewt
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2014, 11:55:02 PM »

I think it might have actually been a little bit before your return in... was it November? You can catch up on the discussion here if you'd like, but it's more or less just us doing some practice calculations and basic balancing discussion.


But anyway. Unless Teawater wants to post it later, I'll see if I can search through that topic where they were discussing critical hit rate stuff and add it to the first post at some point. Can you think of any other formulas that should be added and/or researched? I know that the wiki(s) have a bunch, but I'd rather not search them and give myself a migraine just yet.
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And the Wise One is a Mary Sue!

Hey there! I see you over there, looking at me... Wanna come over for a Milk Drink? ;)
Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.
Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
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Fox
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2014, 12:18:34 AM »

Rolina did know about it at one point, she just forgot about it.

Remember this post? http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2067.msg37426#msg37426
Rolina posted before /and/ after it. On the same day, too.

Critical Hit Rate stuff was discussed in one of the DCrisis sections, http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2448.0

EDIT: What do you think about moving Joao's topics out of the DCrisis section?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 12:43:43 AM by Teawater » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...
*Cross my fingers and hope we have Big Brother All-Stars next year... with Paulie & Cody Califorie(sp?)... and Vanessa & Tiffany Rousso.... Would be fun? :P Especially if one of the boys got evicted early since there's usually some all-guy alliance in there, right?
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leaf
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2014, 04:08:06 AM »

They probably shouldn't have been in dc to begin with, so yes. Move them out of there and into the general gs hacking forum.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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jjppof
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2014, 07:19:55 PM »


Let me see if I understood this agility formula for PCs:

First check:
Calculates speed for each char

speed = {AGI + [(AGI * rand(0, 65535))>>20]}*k

k = 1, if PCs first move in turn,
k = 0.5, if PCs second or more move in turn

Second Check:

Check the max speeds and correct it id needed:
PC1: 999
PC2: 940
PC3: 884
PC4: 832

Third check:

If a certain PCs speed is the same of a enemy, PC goes first.

Fourth check:

The most left char has priority.
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leaf
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2014, 07:42:52 PM »

Ignore the second check. That's the "practical use" of the formula. Sala was just saying what the highest speeds each char could have if you wanted a consistent turn order, without the rng ever causing a PC of lower agility to move before a PC of higher agility.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Salanewt
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2014, 07:52:35 PM »

Well, the second one isn't a check at all; merely an observation I made when I was researching this. If you cap your characters at those values, then you can guarantee your desired turn order 100% of the time. When you factor in gear, classes, buffs and so forth, then you can change around your turn order fairly easily. Granted, since reaching those agility values isn't very likely, you would almost be further ahead to try figuring out what agility values you would expect your characters to have by the end of the game and work with that.

In other words, exactly what leaf said! I think he once mentioned that dividing those values by two would give you your "practical use caps" for a normal save file.

Other than that, you've got it.


Edit: Healing and Regenerate formulas are up; they are pretty simple as far as calculations go. I probably won't do the HP% ability effects because those don't use a consistent formula, and I likewise won't add any custom formulas until there is a decent collection of vanilla ones in the first post.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 12:13:09 AM by Salanewt » Logged

And the Wise One is a Mary Sue!

Hey there! I see you over there, looking at me... Wanna come over for a Milk Drink? ;)
Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.
Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
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« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2014, 10:22:38 PM »

The value returned by the Ailment Success formula is X.
   if X >= rand(0, 65535): the ailment was successful

Is it right?

--------------------------------------------

floor() always rounds down and to a integer?

-------------------------------------------

I didnt understand these 3 terms:

  • effect's base chance - are these values given?
  • vulnerabity's 25
  • unk_arg
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Salanewt
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2014, 11:44:16 PM »

I think in this case, it's actually a random number from 0-99 (x00-x63) and it will always succeed if you get 100% or higher. I should probably add this to the first post...

Floor(luck) rounds down because it doesn't use decimals; for example, a luck value of 60 is pretty much the same as a value of 61 in this case. Both will be 30 when you divide them by 2.


As for the other three terms:

  • Base chance/rate: Yep! There's a spoiler tag in the first post that lists the rates along with most (if not all) of the effects that use those rates. A flat rate means that it doesn't use the formula, while the rest of them will.
  • Vulnerability 25: Each class has three values which correspond to ability effects; if there is a value above 0 in a class, then it will add +25% to the success rate of that effect. Enemies also have these three values that correspond to ability effects. If looking at them in the editor, they will be the numbers at the bottom of the class section and the ones above the elemental tables for enemies.
  • Unk_arg: We're not actually too sure on what it does. Teawater thinks it has something to do with multi-target effects, but I currently have a theory that it might have something to do with whether the "effect only" formula is being used or not. I'm sure one of us will test it in the relatively near future.

I hope this helps!


Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the poison (battle) formula is up! Well, more like a calculation than a formula, but still. It's pretty powerful!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 12:58:39 AM by Salanewt » Logged

And the Wise One is a Mary Sue!

Hey there! I see you over there, looking at me... Wanna come over for a Milk Drink? ;)
Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.
Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
View Profile WWW
leaf
Potions class is starting
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2014, 03:29:45 AM »

Quote
floor() always rounds down and to a integer?
Correct. Floor(25.6) = 25. Floor(25.1) = 25. Floor(25.9999) = 25. etc. It's identical to a truncation for positive numbers, e.g. Floor(25.55) = 25 and Trunc(25.55) = 25, but differs in the case of negative numbers, where Floor(-25.55) = -26, and Trunc(-25.55) = -25. Since we pretty much never deal with negative numbers in games, the difference is mostly academic.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 03:43:10 AM by leaf » Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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jjppof
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« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2014, 09:56:03 PM »

Which 3 values are you saying?
I see 2 values for party members in class section and 4 values for enemies in enemy section.
If one of these values is higher than 0, the Vulnerability  is 0.25? If not, 0?

just few enemies have all 4 fields 0 and they are strange enemies.
Can I let it 0.25 fixed?

And for a while, I will let the unk_arg = 1.

And I didnt undertand the spoiler table with the rates:
 35% (24 - Sleep), for example. The base value is 0.35 or 24?


* enem class.PNG (78.18 KB, 528x421 - viewed 320 times.)

* class actor.PNG (85.91 KB, 527x423 - viewed 289 times.)
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Salanewt
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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2014, 01:46:37 AM »

Oh yeah, I have a slightly different version of the editor that displays those correctly. Um...

The two values in the party editor are actually supposed to be four 8-bit values (with only three of them being used) rather than two 16-bit values. If you convert the number you see in that picture to hex format and separate the numbers, you should have effects x1F and x3C. Converting these to decimal again would give you ability effects 31 (may drain HP) and 60 (recover 50% damage to HP). As far as I can tell, most of the classes only use up to two vulnerability slots each despite three being available. As for the enemy editor, the box on the right does nothing at all; you can pretty much ignore it. Both classes and enemies can have them all at 0, or they can use all three.

I don't really understand what you mean by the ".25 fixed" part, would you mind clarifying that question a bit?

And lastly, the base values are whatever ends with a % symbol. The brackets merely list a bunch of the effects that use those percentages.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 02:00:24 AM by Salanewt » Logged

And the Wise One is a Mary Sue!

Hey there! I see you over there, looking at me... Wanna come over for a Milk Drink? ;)
Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.
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« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2014, 02:19:09 AM »

Nooooooow I got this "class ability"... nice nice nice....

If a certain class havent a certain ability, I let the base 0, right? Its summing...

------ wai-wait..... hahahaha editing.......

If a char has a class that has these abilities:
Sleep and Haunt (2426)

This char will put someone to sleep, so the formula is:

(((((levelRate - floorThing) * 3.0) + 0.35 + 0.25) * unk_arg) / 100.0)

noow... this same char will poison someone else, so the formula is:

(((((levelRate - floorThing) * 3.0) + 0.55 + 0) * unk_arg) / 100.0)

right?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 02:25:57 AM by jjppof » Logged

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Salanewt
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« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2014, 02:37:27 AM »

I think I understand what you're asking now! So...

The base rates in the spoiler are used in the formula regardless of whether a class/enemy is vulnerable to it or not (with the only exceptions being the flat success rates, as those don't use the formula). All a vulnerability does is add +25% to the value calculated earlier in the formula, and it won't do this if the class/enemy does not have a particular vulnerability. I guess it basically makes +0% the default, yeah.


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And the Wise One is a Mary Sue!

Hey there! I see you over there, looking at me... Wanna come over for a Milk Drink? ;)
Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.
Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
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jjppof
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« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2014, 07:08:57 PM »

(((((((Attacker's elemental level - Defender's elemental level) - Floor(Defender's luck / 2)) * 3) + effect's base chance + (vulnerabity's 25)) * unk_arg) / 100)  >= rnd())

for the elemental level, what is the element? Which of the four element I choose? Element of the skill I'm casting? Ask is good... hahahahaha


---------------------------

see how the code is:

function state_rate(caster, taker, state_id, skill){
    element = skill.element_id
    levelRate = 0
    if caster.isEnemy
       levelRate = eLevel_Enemy[caster.id][element] - eLevel_Ally[taker.id][element]
    else
       levelRate = eLevel_Ally[caster.id][element] - eLevel_Enemy[taker.id][element]

    floorThing = (caster.luck/2).floor

    baseChance = getBaseChance(state_id)

    unk_arg = 1

    abilities = getAbilities(caster)
    vulnerabity = 0
    if state_id in abilities
       vulnerabity = 0.25 
 
    value = (((((levelRate - floorThing) * 3) + baseChance + vulnerabity) * unk_arg) / 100)
    return value
  }

//in other function....
[...]
if rand(0,99) <= state_rate(caster, taker, state_id, skill)
        add_state(state_id)
[...]
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 09:01:38 PM by jjppof » Logged

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leaf
Potions class is starting
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« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2014, 04:25:24 AM »

Yes, element of the skill you're casting. So if you're casting haunt, you would use venus elemental levels for the attacker and defender. If you're casting delude, you would use the jupiter elemental levels for the attacker and defender. And so on.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Cbox
Today at 12:18:56 PM
Fox: Welcome back!
Today at 09:12:43 AM
Luna_blade: back from vacation
Yesterday at 02:29:26 AM
Fox: That moment when you realize that there is a lot of chatting going on on Discord, that there is no point in trying to keep up. :P  Hm....
August 16, 2017, 04:50:22 AM
Fox: (Then again, just because posting is disabled, doesn't necessarily mean the buttons would be removed as well.)
August 16, 2017, 04:48:55 AM
Fox: (I mean, buttons I would expect to be similar to that.... rather than those specifically since I recall posting there to be disabled.)
August 16, 2017, 04:33:02 AM
Fox: Yeah... I like to think of it as a page loaded with ads. And it's not just the forum home page either... check the sub-forums/topics themselves. == New Topic/Reply/etc. buttons were affected.
August 15, 2017, 07:04:30 PM
Salanewt: Lol, nice. :P
August 15, 2017, 06:33:02 PM
Foxhttp://z9.invisionfree.com/Golden_Sun_Hacking/index.php? == Hahaha! GSHC Classic looks funny now that Photobucket killed the images. :P Anyway, how is everyone doing today?
August 14, 2017, 07:12:02 PM
Salanewt: So yeah, I'm typing up a non-academic essay on why GS2 was rushed; expect that sometime soon!
August 07, 2017, 05:53:11 AM
Fox: But anyway, such a hack mod is simply an idea, and I do not have any current plans to work on it at this time, so.....
August 07, 2017, 05:51:46 AM
Fox: Okay, cool. I think my idea works best without an ability to swap PCs (OR to just simply make that use it the PC's turn.) Hmmm... And with that, I question if a turn list is even needed with my approach. (Outside of maybe 1 entry, if that shortens the modifications.)
August 07, 2017, 05:13:26 AM
Salanewt: To be honest I've been thinking of expanding the battle turn section and also adding code for PCs to have more than two turns in the AI overhaul, but I probably won't allow anyone to have more than four.
August 06, 2017, 12:22:17 AM
Fox: Oh, and if that approach was taken = Would like to also have it so you select the spell to use when it is actually your turn rather than at round start.
August 06, 2017, 12:12:37 AM
Fox: Would take a lot of balancing, but I can see an adept being very slow, and yet very powerful.
August 06, 2017, 12:06:11 AM
Fox: And bosses can have an Agility that is above half of the maximum possible Agility. Mwahaha.
August 06, 2017, 12:04:14 AM
Fox: Hmm... What if Agility could be recodded to allow for multiple turns per round? Obvious, calculations could be made in a way that depending on your Agility, you could like get a different number of turns each round. (eg. 1 turn this round, 2 the next, 1 turn again.) Obviously, To ensure 2 turns all the time, you should have at least double the opponent's agility,.... erm...something. So... you/or enmy could be so fast, the opponent can't even make a move, unless turns are capped.
August 05, 2017, 08:48:42 PM
Fox: ( That keeps search engines from indexing them... :) )
August 05, 2017, 08:45:44 PM
Fox: Also, it's not 100% public if Guests can't see them. (They can't), but who cares about Guests anyway. =P
August 05, 2017, 08:20:28 PM
Fox: @Clan forums: Mars clan has the most posts, and Venus clan has the most topics. So umm having 1k+ posts makes Mars.... interesting?
August 05, 2017, 08:16:43 PM
Fox: /and they're *

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