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« Reply #135 on: December 03, 2017, 07:29:49 PM »

Oh cool. That's nice.

One thing, though.  It looks a bit unorganized and rushed.

I'd prefer the commands written the 16-bit way (That is the way they are written, right?).... and for them to be in order by their number... So like....

Something like below, but I'll have to work quite a bit on it....

---

General / Control Flow?
0000
0001
0002 = conditional jump, test player's gender
0003 = simple jump
0004 = End of script
0005
0006
0007 = function call

(Not sure if there are categories for 0100+ and 0200+)


???
0300
0301
0302
0303
0304
0305
0306
0307 = Set variable
0308 = Normal Text box
0309 = for text that spans 3 lines
030A
030B = Text box with large letters
030C = for one line
030D = options
030E = End
030F
0310
0311 =  Box with Title (Where will you go?)
0312 = Box without Title (just a text box)
0313 = default option (no option chose)
0314 = option (Deikle Village)
0315 = end of menu
0316
0317 = popup message: This are special text boxes that are really small and appear in the middle of the screen
0318 = wait for key press on pop up text box??

0363 = set actual place in the game's menu

037D = set name sprite
037E = set visible or invisible (portrait) Invisible are for NPC which doesn't have any portraits


???
0478 = sets portrait.
0479 = sets eye expression and mouth expression.
047A
047B
047C
047D = adds extra sprites if the portrait is wider.

Yeah, it's a bit rushed, sorry >_< they are written by how you'd find them on the script files.

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« Reply #136 on: December 03, 2017, 08:37:01 PM »

Oh no, you're fine. It's no problem.... This'll be very useful during research.
Was more or less saying that going forward, I will be trying to use this other way. (I might include the arguments too. though I left those out of my example.)
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Did you know? In English, you are suppose to capitalize the languages. (e.g. English is a proper noun.) Subjects like math, science, history can be left lower-cased unless they are a title. (Kind of like how you can say either "my mom" or "Mom" in "I went with (X) to the store.", except that I don't think languages are ever lower-cased in English.) In Spanish, both subjects and languages are left lower-cased. (I put this here because I've noticed people make this mistake quite often. And am curious if they know about this, and whether they use their way because they believe this grammar usage should have never been a thing?

Remember kids! In getting a job, it's not about what you know, it's about WHO you know! So start making friends with the people that work where you want to work. :) (Friend of a friend and volunteering count too, so keep that in mind.)[/si
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« Reply #137 on: December 04, 2017, 12:34:51 PM »

Oh no, you're fine. It's no problem.... This'll be very useful during research.
Was more or less saying that going forward, I will be trying to use this other way. (I might include the arguments too. though I left those out of my example.)

I see. Glad it was useful!

One question, suppose all the functions have been identified properly, I guess we'll have to code them to make a decent dumper/inserter that, in case of the dumper writes down the XML plus the japanese text, and in the case of the inserter, reads up the xml formatted text and writes down the opcodes + translated text, am I right?

of course, we'd need to take into consideration the fact that the sizes of each script will be different, and thus we'll need to modify the script table...I think that's how it was supposed to go down.


« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 12:41:29 PM by pablitox » Logged

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« Reply #138 on: December 07, 2017, 01:05:44 AM »

Yeah, sounds like a good way to go... Especially if we ever want those tools to be used for more than just translating...
As for the script table? I am not sure exactly what that refers to, but I don't imagine it to be a problem? (Re-pointing is easy if you got the space. Right?)
(A bit random, but I kind of hate Python when it comes to file management. C# does a pretty good job, though.)

I've already started documenting. The document is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/19HGbHkmIUfvd7fc0_gEpcuAjtwagtr7HpLv2dwE5jPg/edit
It it is to list most of the functions in the game. (Functions being the code blocks that were intended to be called.)

This is just the start, and there's a long way to go. But it's nice seeing the first section (0000+) only has a small number of commands.

0000 = Unused (Pointer is 00000000)
0001 xxxx xxxx EXPR = Set var to EXPR (xxxx=Type (2/3) , xxxx (2nd) =Index)
0002 xxxx EXPR = Conditional jump (in script) if EXPR=0.
0003 xxxx = Simple Jump
0004 = Related to ending script?
0005 EXPR = Loads PSI3 file. (Index being EXPR) Current position is not saved.
0006 EXPR = Loads/calls PSI3 file. (Index being EXPR) Current position is saved.
0007 xxxx = Function call (For same 0x1C byte entry)
0008 = Return from sub-function. (Does nothing if in main function?)
0009 xxxx = Function call? (Another 0x1C byte entry?)
000A EXPR = Sets slot EXPR (0-7) to type 0x9.
000B EXPR = Gets the on flags for the engine block EXPR (0/1)
000C = Nothing (Just returns 0 to continue script.)
000D = Sets PSI3 file id(Not sure?) to 0000, but doesn't load it? (Unknown purpose.)
000E = Unused (Pointer is 00000000)
000F = Unused (Pointer is 00000000)

In the code, these ^ are pretty much separated into two groups, interesting enough. 0001,0004-0009 in the first group, 0002,0003,000A-000D in the other group.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 01:14:17 AM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...
Did you know? In English, you are suppose to capitalize the languages. (e.g. English is a proper noun.) Subjects like math, science, history can be left lower-cased unless they are a title. (Kind of like how you can say either "my mom" or "Mom" in "I went with (X) to the store.", except that I don't think languages are ever lower-cased in English.) In Spanish, both subjects and languages are left lower-cased. (I put this here because I've noticed people make this mistake quite often. And am curious if they know about this, and whether they use their way because they believe this grammar usage should have never been a thing?

Remember kids! In getting a job, it's not about what you know, it's about WHO you know! So start making friends with the people that work where you want to work. :) (Friend of a friend and volunteering count too, so keep that in mind.)[/si
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« Reply #139 on: December 07, 2017, 02:19:18 AM »

Yeah, sounds like a good way to go... Especially if we ever want those tools to be used for more than just translating...
As for the script table? I am not sure exactly what that refers to, but I don't imagine it to be a problem? (Re-pointing is easy if you got the space. Right?)
(A bit random, but I kind of hate Python when it comes to file management. C# does a pretty good job, though.)

I've already started documenting. The document is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/19HGbHkmIUfvd7fc0_gEpcuAjtwagtr7HpLv2dwE5jPg/edit
It it is to list most of the functions in the game. (Functions being the code blocks that were intended to be called.)

This is just the start, and there's a long way to go. But it's nice seeing the first section (0000+) only has a small number of commands.

0000 = Unused (Pointer is 00000000)
0001 xxxx xxxx EXPR = Set var to EXPR (xxxx=Type (2/3) , xxxx (2nd) =Index)
0002 xxxx EXPR = Conditional jump (in script) if EXPR=0.
0003 xxxx = Simple Jump
0004 = Related to ending script?
0005 EXPR = Loads PSI3 file. (Index being EXPR) Current position is not saved.
0006 EXPR = Loads/calls PSI3 file. (Index being EXPR) Current position is saved.
0007 xxxx = Function call (For same 0x1C byte entry)
0008 = Return from sub-function. (Does nothing if in main function?)
0009 xxxx = Function call? (Another 0x1C byte entry?)
000A EXPR = Sets slot EXPR (0-7) to type 0x9.
000B EXPR = Gets the on flags for the engine block EXPR (0/1)
000C = Nothing (Just returns 0 to continue script.)
000D = Sets PSI3 file id(Not sure?) to 0000, but doesn't load it? (Unknown purpose.)
000E = Unused (Pointer is 00000000)
000F = Unused (Pointer is 00000000)

In the code, these ^ are pretty much separated into two groups, interesting enough. 0001,0004-0009 in the first group, 0002,0003,000A-000D in the other group.

Amazing!! Well the dumper's ready then (i'll send you a link to a drive folder so you can post there all your findings if you want and check what we have done so far).


Nice, I'll bookmark the file to check it out throughly. I'll edit this post if I have any questions!
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« Reply #140 on: December 07, 2017, 02:37:27 AM »

You are welcome. Still got to document the other commands, though. = Hopefully I can get at least half of those in this month. (?)

Sounds good. I also have it in my Hacking Docs folder. (Misc. Docs link in my signature.)
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Did you know? In English, you are suppose to capitalize the languages. (e.g. English is a proper noun.) Subjects like math, science, history can be left lower-cased unless they are a title. (Kind of like how you can say either "my mom" or "Mom" in "I went with (X) to the store.", except that I don't think languages are ever lower-cased in English.) In Spanish, both subjects and languages are left lower-cased. (I put this here because I've noticed people make this mistake quite often. And am curious if they know about this, and whether they use their way because they believe this grammar usage should have never been a thing?

Remember kids! In getting a job, it's not about what you know, it's about WHO you know! So start making friends with the people that work where you want to work. :) (Friend of a friend and volunteering count too, so keep that in mind.)[/si
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« Reply #141 on: December 10, 2017, 05:04:06 AM »

You are welcome. Still got to document the other commands, though. = Hopefully I can get at least half of those in this month. (?)

Sounds good. I also have it in my Hacking Docs folder. (Misc. Docs link in my signature.)


That'll be most helpful! thanks fox

Meanwhile I'll keep working on the graphic task.
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« Reply #142 on: December 11, 2017, 01:35:39 AM »

Alright.. I have a tiny bit of info...


Quote
"in this case the opcode is: 16 03 01 00 18 01 00 00 83 C1 00 00 The text in this opcode is 83 C1 which is translated to your partner name. Soon after this opcode we have a 0B 03 (big text) with 83 C1 81 49 81 49 that is: (Partner name) + "!!" But when testing I only saw the :(Partner name) + "!!", when the character summons him/her. I didn't see the summon name by it self as the 16 03 opcode is sugesting. That opcode is kinda weird, maybe this opcode will need some brute force search. t's not like there is much text in that opcode format. About all of it is or user created names and or '!' and or '?'. The only thing we need to take a look is that player name + 'Da'(japanese) + '!'. I think its the only of those 16 03 opcodes we might need to change. Do you have any clue to why a japanse would put a 'Da' after a name? (maybe something we need to translate)
When I looked at the code on this, it looked like this command (0316) is for getting the number of characters in the text string.

0316 EXPR TEXT
EXPR = Refers to where in memory to set the number of characters in text to.
TEXT = The text to check (Using CX83 will read from the text variables)

Does that make any sense?
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Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...
Did you know? In English, you are suppose to capitalize the languages. (e.g. English is a proper noun.) Subjects like math, science, history can be left lower-cased unless they are a title. (Kind of like how you can say either "my mom" or "Mom" in "I went with (X) to the store.", except that I don't think languages are ever lower-cased in English.) In Spanish, both subjects and languages are left lower-cased. (I put this here because I've noticed people make this mistake quite often. And am curious if they know about this, and whether they use their way because they believe this grammar usage should have never been a thing?

Remember kids! In getting a job, it's not about what you know, it's about WHO you know! So start making friends with the people that work where you want to work. :) (Friend of a friend and volunteering count too, so keep that in mind.)[/si
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« Reply #143 on: December 11, 2017, 01:47:08 AM »

Alright.. I have a tiny bit of info...


Quote
"in this case the opcode is: 16 03 01 00 18 01 00 00 83 C1 00 00 The text in this opcode is 83 C1 which is translated to your partner name. Soon after this opcode we have a 0B 03 (big text) with 83 C1 81 49 81 49 that is: (Partner name) + "!!" But when testing I only saw the :(Partner name) + "!!", when the character summons him/her. I didn't see the summon name by it self as the 16 03 opcode is sugesting. That opcode is kinda weird, maybe this opcode will need some brute force search. t's not like there is much text in that opcode format. About all of it is or user created names and or '!' and or '?'. The only thing we need to take a look is that player name + 'Da'(japanese) + '!'. I think its the only of those 16 03 opcodes we might need to change. Do you have any clue to why a japanse would put a 'Da' after a name? (maybe something we need to translate)
When I looked at the code on this, it looked like this command (0316) is for getting the number of characters in the text string.

0316 EXPR TEXT
EXPR = Refers to where in memory to set the number of characters in text to.
TEXT = The text to check (Using CX83 will read from the text variables)

Does that make any sense?


I think it does make sense for this control code.

It's not like there is much text in that opcode format as earth said. I think we can leave it like that. What do you say?
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« Reply #144 on: December 13, 2017, 04:13:06 PM »

I'm gonna addsome functions to the drive you made, these ones were identified by normmatt:

ROM:08003BC0 ; unsigned int __fastcall DrawCharacter(int src, int dest, int src_offset, int bg_color)
ROM:08003BC0 DrawCharacter
ROM:08003EB8 ; unsigned int __fastcall DrawCharacter_0(int src, int dest, int src_offset, int bg_color)
ROM:08003EB8 DrawCharacter_0
ROM:08001F14 DrawString
ROM:0800348C GetCharacterAddressInFont

One of the drawcharacter is for the normal font, while the other is for the big characters font (no clue which one's which)
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« Reply #145 on: Yesterday at 04:14:51 AM »

Are there only like ~two ARM functions in this game (and the rest is THUMB.) or am I missing something?


---
@What do you say?
Sure, I guess.

---

@Next post: Thanks! I've added them, but I need to figure out those others in the area...
Quote
08001D0C = Stores table addresses to RAM.
 03002970 | 08BDA40C 098C8D9C 09718FFC 094D446C 09E2261C
08001D3C = File look up(table number, index of file) ; Returns address
08001D5C = File look up(table number, index of file) ; Returns size
08001D78 = File look up(table address, index of file) ; Returns address
08001D88 = File look up(table address, index of file) ; Returns size

08001D94 =
08001D98 =
08001DC4 =
08001DE8 =
08001E14 =
08001E38 =
08001E4C =
08001E64 =
08001E70 =
08001EA0 =
08001ED4 =
08001EE4 =
08001EFC =
08001F14 = DrawString(dest, textAddr, , src_offset (16-bit), bg_color)
080020A8 = (Text related)
080022B4 = (Text related) - Alternates between calling 08003B9C and 08003BA8 for each text character. No idea if it was meant to clear character.
08002388 =
080026CC =
08002A64 =
08002CB4 =
080031E8 =
0800348C = GetCharacterAddressInFont(text character id)
0800350C =
08003620 =
08003664 =
080036C4 =
080036F8 = (Text related) Draw string? (dest?,srcText,?)
0800379C = “
08003840 =
0800393C =
08003A20 =
08003B9C =
08003BA8 =
08003BC0 = DrawCharacter(src, dest, src_offset, bg_color)
08003EB8 = DrawCharacter_0(src, dest, src_offset, bg_color)
080041C8 =
080043E4 =

080044B0 = -- From here on down - I/O stuff (Indirectly)

Those two: DrawCharacter and DrawCharacter_0... Seem like each are called alternatingly... (Every other character using one, the other "every other character" using the other? Hmm.... But as with what I have in the quote, there's clearly more stuff to look into... so...
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:16:22 AM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...
Did you know? In English, you are suppose to capitalize the languages. (e.g. English is a proper noun.) Subjects like math, science, history can be left lower-cased unless they are a title. (Kind of like how you can say either "my mom" or "Mom" in "I went with (X) to the store.", except that I don't think languages are ever lower-cased in English.) In Spanish, both subjects and languages are left lower-cased. (I put this here because I've noticed people make this mistake quite often. And am curious if they know about this, and whether they use their way because they believe this grammar usage should have never been a thing?

Remember kids! In getting a job, it's not about what you know, it's about WHO you know! So start making friends with the people that work where you want to work. :) (Friend of a friend and volunteering count too, so keep that in mind.)[/si
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« Reply #146 on: Yesterday at 02:14:35 PM »

Are there only like ~two ARM functions in this game (and the rest is THUMB.) or am I missing something?


---
@What do you say?
Sure, I guess.

---

@Next post: Thanks! I've added them, but I need to figure out those others in the area...
Quote
08001D0C = Stores table addresses to RAM.
 03002970 | 08BDA40C 098C8D9C 09718FFC 094D446C 09E2261C
08001D3C = File look up(table number, index of file) ; Returns address
08001D5C = File look up(table number, index of file) ; Returns size
08001D78 = File look up(table address, index of file) ; Returns address
08001D88 = File look up(table address, index of file) ; Returns size

08001D94 =
08001D98 =
08001DC4 =
08001DE8 =
08001E14 =
08001E38 =
08001E4C =
08001E64 =
08001E70 =
08001EA0 =
08001ED4 =
08001EE4 =
08001EFC =
08001F14 = DrawString(dest, textAddr, , src_offset (16-bit), bg_color)
080020A8 = (Text related)
080022B4 = (Text related) - Alternates between calling 08003B9C and 08003BA8 for each text character. No idea if it was meant to clear character.
08002388 =
080026CC =
08002A64 =
08002CB4 =
080031E8 =
0800348C = GetCharacterAddressInFont(text character id)
0800350C =
08003620 =
08003664 =
080036C4 =
080036F8 = (Text related) Draw string? (dest?,srcText,?)
0800379C = “
08003840 =
0800393C =
08003A20 =
08003B9C =
08003BA8 =
08003BC0 = DrawCharacter(src, dest, src_offset, bg_color)
08003EB8 = DrawCharacter_0(src, dest, src_offset, bg_color)
080041C8 =
080043E4 =

080044B0 = -- From here on down - I/O stuff (Indirectly)

Those two: DrawCharacter and DrawCharacter_0... Seem like each are called alternatingly... (Every other character using one, the other "every other character" using the other? Hmm.... But as with what I have in the quote, there's clearly more stuff to look into... so...

Glad it was useful!! One question about your first statement, how you differentiatie between ARM and THUMB functions? I though THUMB was just a subset of ARM, just with 16bits instructions.

So that area is where the functions are stored is that right? As in, each call in the control codes refer to the functions in that place you pointed out.

As normmatt explained us, at least one DrawCharacter is called to draw normal text, while the other is called when the text box contains BIG characters (if you play the game, just the first text to show up will have a bigger font and be displayed in the middle of the screen)
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« Reply #147 on: Yesterday at 06:00:30 PM »

Well, yes.... That is basically it. THUMB is cut-down ARM. However, I usually say ARM for 32-bit instructions, and THUMB for 16-bit instructions. (Kind of how it is labeled in VBA's Tools>Disassemble...)

Quote
So that area is where the functions are stored is that right? As in, each call in the control codes refer to the functions in that place you pointed out.
Well, kind of indirectly. I guess you can kind of think of it like a tree, but the root/parent functions for the control codes/commands aren't in this area. (However, they may call some of these functions, may need to check into that.)
In what I posted, I was going through the code to list what looked like functions that can be called. (Generally.) Usually they're easy to tell because most functions (not all) are nested in push and pop instructions.

Quote
As normmatt explained us, at least one DrawCharacter is called to draw normal text, while the other is called when the text box contains BIG characters (if you play the game, just the first text to show up will have a bigger font and be displayed in the middle of the screen)
Maybe. What I read from a quick read of the code /seemed/ to contradict your statement (at least at first)... But until I have figured out where everything is. I can't say whether I've misread or not... While Summon Night's code seems easy to read (compared to some games), I do make mistakes....

08001F14 calls
- 08003BC0
- 08003EB8

080020A8 calls
- 0800348C then 080041C8
- 080043E4 (at end)
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 06:13:21 PM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...
Did you know? In English, you are suppose to capitalize the languages. (e.g. English is a proper noun.) Subjects like math, science, history can be left lower-cased unless they are a title. (Kind of like how you can say either "my mom" or "Mom" in "I went with (X) to the store.", except that I don't think languages are ever lower-cased in English.) In Spanish, both subjects and languages are left lower-cased. (I put this here because I've noticed people make this mistake quite often. And am curious if they know about this, and whether they use their way because they believe this grammar usage should have never been a thing?

Remember kids! In getting a job, it's not about what you know, it's about WHO you know! So start making friends with the people that work where you want to work. :) (Friend of a friend and volunteering count too, so keep that in mind.)[/si
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December 13, 2017, 09:19:38 PM
Fox: Okay, so that Summon Night games adds the fram number to the seed, before generating another seed via mul/add....  (GS1-GS3 never adds the fram number.) ... So um, that makes sense! ;  Summon Night:  ((seed + frame) * 0x343FD + 0x269E3C) >> 0x10 ; Which is also on the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator
December 12, 2017, 11:10:45 PM
Fox: Yes, and there could be contests. Maybe ones where 1st/2nd/3rd place get a cash reward, but eh. Dunno.... Kind of thinking about making a topic about how people got their job, and what was their experience. (e.g. Did they use references of people already working in the job, and various other things.)
December 09, 2017, 04:24:14 AM
Majora: Import old forum posts for reference, perhaps take posts containing important info like documentation away from the old stickied forum post model and make them into their own pages on a site with an in-built search bar. Might help with SEO, too. If nothing else, perhaps whipping them into PDFs and hosting them via Scribd? The possibilities are boundless when it comes to restructuring a site
December 09, 2017, 04:20:02 AM
Majora: Just a nice idea to have even if it doesn't come to fruition. Updating, modernizing, always a good idea. Could probably do something pretty nifty using a good Wordpress theme
December 09, 2017, 04:15:45 AM
Majora: Would be kind of neat to do something like that for GSHC. Could change it up a bit to show all tweets/instagram posts/facebook posts/golden sun subreddit posts all in one sidebar. It would be cool in that it gives the site it's on (and the topic in general) appear more lively and active, which is a plus
December 09, 2017, 04:14:19 AM
Majora: That does sound interesting. One cool thing I've seen some sites use is a sort of unique take on a sidebar option that acts like a social media integration (like, "See GSHC's latest Tweets"). It displays activity from a variety of related sites, such as Reddit, Twitter, Instagram, etc.
December 09, 2017, 12:58:53 AM
Fox: And the way it'd work via code is not that all users would instantly get nicknames the minute you register... but rather, the moment you view a name if it doesn't have a nickname, it gets one. (My Thoughts.)
December 09, 2017, 12:53:55 AM
Fox: (I was thinking that it would be "Name (Nickname)" ... The nickname is what you first known the user as, and you can change that yourself... and the Name is what the user wants to be called... Something like that.
December 09, 2017, 12:47:56 AM
Fox: So like... for starters, one idea I had was to make it so anyone can name anyone... much like how it works on Skype, and you (the namer) would be the only one to see it, and such...
December 09, 2017, 12:45:02 AM
Fox: Would need to be carefully thought out and tested, though.
December 09, 2017, 12:43:02 AM
Fox: I'm thinking I could make it so that name changes can happen whenever... (Without any limit)... Since I believe there's a way to do it with minimum confusion. (I think.) Hmm....
December 09, 2017, 12:31:36 AM
Fox: (I mean an offline version... at least initially.)
December 09, 2017, 12:25:01 AM
Fox: Now that I have thought about it a bit more, would I be right to assume that GSHC would be one of the most interesting websites to administrate, or no? It's sad to see not much going on with it. == I almost want to make a concept website at some point. :D Anyway, how is everyone doing today?
December 06, 2017, 12:12:59 AM
Fox: Like... Start using Github or something... Do like how many of those other projects such as Citra (WIP 3DS Emulator) does. Etc.
December 06, 2017, 12:08:12 AM
Fox: No idea. I just wish OpenGoldenSun would release it as unfinished, but oh well.
December 05, 2017, 06:52:09 AM
MaxiPower: Bummed out that the open golden sun project is dead it seems with no actitivy in close to a year at this point. Is there any hope left in any other projects?
November 27, 2017, 10:25:28 AM
Fox: (When I say research, mainly refering to the data in the game, though checking websites can count to a degree.)
November 27, 2017, 09:52:27 AM
Fox: Maybe. But Dark Dawn is meh, hahah... I still research it, though, because data can be interesting.
November 27, 2017, 05:28:36 AM
Portakin: I'm here! This game is underrated!
November 25, 2017, 08:03:23 PM
Fox: .... and the email listed in that post makes me think we should just make a new rules topic with most of the same information. (So the old ones can be sort o archived.)

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