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Author Topic: Open Golden Sun: Open source recreation of the Golden Sun engine  (Read 33818 times)
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2014, 11:17:38 PM »

Very nice work! I am very impressed!  Happy

Looks like you are using xna, right? C# is a lovely language.
That's a very hard and professional work and you have already done lot of stuff.
Can't wait to see the source!!  Happy
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« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2014, 12:25:08 AM »

I'd love to see some behind the scenes stuff, so as to better see what bit of code corresponds to what.  Or, alternatively, if there's a UI functionality built into it like with Atrius' Editor, I'd like to see that.
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« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2014, 01:53:28 AM »

Same.  I'd like to know how the map data is done, myself. What is this TileAndHexUtilityForm?

-Is it just 16x16 tiles without the four split 8x8 tiles like how the game works?
-Are the tiles done in 16bpp? Without an indexed pixel format?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 02:14:06 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2014, 06:38:38 PM »

I'm interested in how the field effects are done.  I'd love to add more (say, fireball functionality from DD), so seeing how Move and Growth were handled would be kinda neat.
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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2014, 08:08:44 PM »

I imagine the basics of field effects are simple enough to understand... but as for the entirety, probably plenty of work to implement? (You have to also remember the less obvious things like how Douse will do snowflakes in cold places.)

-You generate the graphics in front of the character.
Something like this... (If assuming facing right is a 0 degree angle.)
Utility_x = PC_x + (distance * cos(PC_angle))
Utility_y = PC_y + (distance * sin(PC_angle))

-Interacting with objects is likely tile based, so x/16 and y/16  (Or was it /8 each?) or something like that... And different utilities measure out different distances in tiles.
Frost could work 1 tile away, Move could work 2 tiles away, for example.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 08:16:51 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2014, 11:28:24 PM »

Yeah - casting a fireball effect into, say, a waterfall would probably require a check to trigger its own animation variant or something.  Didn't we create a patch to allow for 8-directional utility casting?  I imagine working that into the game would be a pretty good idea as well.

I want to see if this is coming straight from a program, or if he's developing a UI kind of like what atrius did.  Plus, knowing what programs he's using would be a good thing for when we go in to have fun with it.
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2015, 11:21:50 AM »

This is looking very good, and I hope you'll keep the project going (@OpenGoldenSun). It appears to be a very faithful replica of the game engine, to the point that I believe you have a pretty good grasp of how the game works. So with that in mind, I don't feel the need to point anything out - just keep up the good work!
However, I have to respectfully disagree about the graphics filter you used in the video... nothing wrong with it in itself, but I don't think it makes the GBA pixel graphics look better.

Oh, and like others here I'm interested in a few more details about how you're making this. Saying you're building it "from the ground up" isn't particularly telling. What programming language and other resources are you using?

@Rolina: Open source generally just means the source code is available and unprotected, but I guess we should be able to expect some kind of editor, as otherwise there wouldn't be much of any point to doing this. In response to "can we do X", anything can be done, just as nearly anything can be done on the GBA, except now with fewer restrictions and the advantage of a conventional programming language.
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2015, 11:58:36 AM »

Quote
What programming language and other resources are you using?
Not sure, but did you read this? (Link in first post.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/2mvhva/open_golden_sun_an_opensource_golden_sun_engine/

More specifically:
Quote
    When will this be open-sourced?

    So, right now it's coded on DirectX9 with C# using XNA. The plan is to get it over to MonoGame and SharpDX. Before this happens I still have a few iterations of game code architecture that I need to figure out. Game architecture is always tricky, it's pretty easy for it to turn into hack on top of hack. I don't want to open-source it that way. I will attempt to get it to a respectable stage of development with a clean architecture and then open-source it.

You are welcome. :)

(I believe I was going to ask that same question earlier...(probably near the time the topic was made?), but then I wanted to make sure it wasn't answered... So it was good I checked. :) )
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 12:04:01 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2015, 02:33:17 PM »

Hrk, sorry about that. Yes, I did read the stuff in the link, but I skimmed the FAQ since that wasn't the question I was looking for. Thanks for clearing that up.
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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2015, 07:25:49 AM »

Everything is still in early stages. There is no UI for this engine because the project is nowhere near that stage. Right now configuration of maps and stuff is done through a separate code project (GoldenSun.Game.Definitions).

Currently it uses an event engine with conditions and actions. I.e. if all condition requirements are met then the actions are run. This is something that I've designed to be quite configurable. For example you could basically configure events on a map such as:

Code:
If controlled player intersects a bounding rectangle with the specified absolute bounds then...
Suspend control of player character
Show dialog window
Wait for dialog window close
Resume control of player character

You can see that structure in the class hierarchy I posted.

I do sort-of store tile based data for the maps, but probably not how you're thinking. All the maps are .png files with transparency.

There are utilities that I've created to better help me translate accurately and efficiently things from the actual game to the engine. That is where something like the TileAndHexUtilityForm comes in. An example of how that form is used is: I want to replicate the exact water effects that Vale has. Meaning, the exact animations at the exact same spots. Obviously doing this manually is tedious. So I can do a memory dump from VBA and then it will read all the relevant tiles that I want (I click on the tiles to tell it which ones I want) and then it will generate the code based on whether the tile is flipped vertically or horizontally etc...

The field psynergy effects are all written manually. The positioning of the Move hand etc... is all calculated with vectors and such. So in theory you could (if you allowed) cast move from really far and the hand would animate to the pillar (I could maybe post a video of this for fun).

I also tweaked the smoothing algorithm because I know some people weren't a fan. I think the main thing was what it did to Felix's face (mostly the eyes). Here is what the new version looks like, as you can see the eyes are much better.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 06:59:27 PM by OpenGoldenSun » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2015, 02:12:22 PM »

As I mentioned in the comments of the vid you showcased that in, it might be better if you have a staggered blending.  For example:

Layer 1 affects the background assets
Layer 2 affects the sprites
Layer 3 affects the menus and text boxes

For me, I'd probably turn layers 1 and 2 on, but would prefer to have layer 3 off.  This would allow people to toggle bits and pieces to get a look they see as being ideal for their tastes.  Consider the different layers for a future update. ^-^
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« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2015, 02:24:28 PM »

Id prefer it with no smoothing whatsoever tho I can see why people may like it. So the option to toggle it all off would be sweet.

How much work is there in adding each separate psyngery? Must be a pain with soooo many of them yet rewarding when they finally work.
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« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2015, 03:13:15 PM »

Id prefer it with no smoothing whatsoever tho I can see why people may like it. So the option to toggle it all off would be sweet.
No smoothing is default.

What looks good and what doesn't is highly subjective, and considering this is just a recreation of the engine I don't think you should concern yourself too much with it. Maybe support higher resolution graphics, for those who would be willing to create those graphics. Personally I think visual improvements go beyond the scope of this project, but it's not my project so...
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2015, 11:58:59 PM »

Id prefer it with no smoothing whatsoever tho I can see why people may like it. So the option to toggle it all off would be sweet.

How much work is there in adding each separate psyngery? Must be a pain with soooo many of them yet rewarding when they finally work.
It already has a toggle - right now it's all or nothing.  I was hoping for a tiered toggle, so that we can pick and choose what we want smoothed and not smoothed.

I also second support for higher res graphics.  Say what you want about Dark Dawn, it's icons were gorgeous.  I think right now, however, it may be a better idea to focus on getting the core of the game done, and then working on graphical addons like smoothing and high-res graphics for later.
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« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2015, 07:12:46 AM »

Guys, it's important to realize that this is a GBA engine clone. There will be no higher resolution graphics support. Everything is being drawn to a 240x160 (native GBA resolution) buffer and then scaled either according to two variations of the xBR filter (square vs rounded) or no interpolation (nearest neighbor). The menuing icons and screens will be copied from the GBA games with some minor changes.

Performing smoothing on separate layers is not ideal for a few reasons:

  • FPS (You're looking at approximately 4-5 different stages where a shader effect will need to be rendered per frame)
  • Complexity (Layers would need to be able to render over top of other layers with different shader settings)
  • Don't agree on it's usefulness
  • Doesn't seem worth the time and effort

Rhetorical: When you play Golden Sun with VBA what settings do you use? The most common ones will be implemented. Consider that even VBA doesn't smooth layers separately.
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Yesterday at 09:30:34 AM
Fox: Because he quit a long time ago and has other priorities?
Yesterday at 08:35:54 AM
javi3: Atrius, por que no sigues con el editor de golden sun?
June 20, 2017, 10:52:48 AM
Fox: It feels like the safest bet is to do Atrius's repointering system, and have something that organizes the tables done a bit separate... er... Well, it's something to think about.
June 20, 2017, 08:53:41 AM
Fox: HOWEVER... I can see other problems that might cause..... (Even with just the pointer in the MFT)  Meh. It's like you actually need a program to apply patches to do it appropriately.
June 20, 2017, 08:46:38 AM
Fox: ... So... What am I thinking? You ask? That the patches the point data after MFT, should have had pointers in the MFT themselves.... In that case, I can see a possibility of everything working smoothly even if space is needed to the very end of the ROM.
June 20, 2017, 08:37:22 AM
Fox: It's basically that everthink from the point of  editing, to the closest free space to the last entry's address would get repointed forward/backwards depending on space needed... and if space is mapped after patches are added, then that could mean the patches are also repointed. (:o)
June 20, 2017, 08:29:03 AM
Fox: Well, I mean if I map the space out the same way Atrius did it.
June 20, 2017, 08:26:41 AM
Fox: I have a hunch... when I add Map Palette editing the way I'm thinking about... it will cause all patches that repoint to after the MFT to break.... Especially if Atrius's editor wasn't used beforehand. Etc.
June 20, 2017, 07:27:17 AM
Fox: Hmmm... Let's see... regardless of method, I think I still do want to take some of Atrius's Space Manager code... Hmm.....
June 20, 2017, 07:07:27 AM
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