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[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

Started by Caledor, 24, January, 2015, 12:29:46 PM

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Caledor

Quote from: Fox on 05, July, 2016, 07:40:24 PM
QuoteAlso, about the off-topic, that looks like something you'd want as a gameshark/codebreaker cheat rather than a permanent patch.
Likely.... but you never know when there might be that one person that wants to do something differently? (i.e. Get rid of battles and have direct combat on the map similar to Zelda?)

Or even something similar to Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney... which doesn't even do battles... More just a linear novel.... where you have to pick the right answers and stuff.

--
Of course, it might be better to just clear out all the battle content.... For GS2: 0x08118000 - 0x081A0000, and some files in the MFT, I think. But that could complicate some things...

Hmm... maybe... but i think we should continue this elsewhere cause it doesn't really belong here.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#1081
I totally agree with that.. (If there is even more worth discussing on the topic at this time?)

Unfortunately, can't really think of much to add to this topic at the moment,.... asides from questions like whether cutscenes will be made easy to skip (up to the battle) .. for where battles are needed to be played. (So you can get into the action faster if you died.) - Don't the Lighthouse bosses have long cutscenes?
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Caledor

Well it's a very minor nuisance considering that the emulator we all use has a very effective speed up function.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#1083
@minor: That is true... Which goes to my point of how I can't seem to think of much aside from minor optimizations like that at this current moment. (So it was mostly an example.)

@Emulator speed-up - Depends on what you're playing the game with... But most of us are probably using VBA... -  I am also thinking about those (minority?) who like to play on the real hardware for some weird reason. (Perhaps they prefer the controls... or maybe emulators have savestates that are too addicting to use.... as to avoid cheating...  Etc.) - Or even the thought that bugs may be in emulators... (That can be true with real hardware as well, though. I thinking about what made bsnes, or whatever it was, become a thing.)


--
I've never tested actually importing a hack to one of those game pak things (Forgot what you call those cartridge things?), so not sure how it works... But from readings in the past, I feel pretty strongly that it is possible... .... And then more recent hardware has to go and make that more difficult (those that use encryption... Which I believe, for Nintendo, MIGHT have started around DSi time? Correct me if wrong.) But sometimes there are loopholes! Drama drama!!
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

JustBeKrillin

I'm playing the game off of an GPD XD android handheld. Very pleasant experience.

VardenSalad

Cal, i kinda don't know if/how/when you ever plan on finally calling this completed, but i want you to know it's been a good ride.
Never forget why you started playing.

dive_darkness

Okay, I've had enough trying your dullahan. Everyone is level 60 (I tried not to overlevel my characters this time). Seriously, how high are the chances of him casting Djinn storm ? Systematically, after five turns, he cast it. Which strangely break the team and kill me. I tried a few different strategies, like debuffing him, buffing me, summon spam, low levels summon only, eclipse spam, constant granite/flash/shade, etc...
Even the unleash-based strategy didn't work, as he regen more hp with collide than a maxed Meguiddo.
My view of the fight may be biased because I'm tired to try him, but dude, that ******* djinn storm...

Also, all hail the almighty Charon (which I cannot cast) that suddenly decides it's time to kill 1-3 characters instantly, while hitting for 500 on everyone.

I give up. After 40 tries and trying to RNG a non-djinn storm run (which didn't work btw, I gave up after 17 tries), I'm tired.
I guess I'll wait for your new mod.

Caledor

@Varden: Thanks. For starters i'd like to finish the enemy review of TLA, probably with the tweak to the level up mechanic too (to make it not dependant on RNG). I kinda took a break from GS hacking in the last month though cause i wanted to try something different, so it'll take a while.

@Dive: Dullahan's moveset is NOT dependant on RNG. You can't avoid Djinn Storm or Charon and there will never be a battle where he casts them more or less frequently.

dive_darkness

Ok. Then I give up. I won't even try to beat him. I can cope with charon. I could (in the original game) cope with djinn storm to a certain extent, but not both. I'll just hack in the mind ribbon and go finish the game.

leaf

Quote from: dive_darkness on 12, August, 2016, 01:51:34 PM
Okay, I've had enough trying your dullahan. Everyone is level 60 (I tried not to overlevel my characters this time). Seriously, how high are the chances of him casting Djinn storm ? Systematically, after five turns, he cast it. Which strangely break the team and kill me. I tried a few different strategies, like debuffing him, buffing me, summon spam, low levels summon only, eclipse spam, constant granite/flash/shade, etc...
Even the unleash-based strategy didn't work, as he regen more hp with collide than a maxed Meguiddo.
My view of the fight may be biased because I'm tired to try him, but dude, that ******* djinn storm...

Also, all hail the almighty Charon (which I cannot cast) that suddenly decides it's time to kill 1-3 characters instantly, while hitting for 500 on everyone.

I give up. After 40 tries and trying to RNG a non-djinn storm run (which didn't work btw, I gave up after 17 tries), I'm tired.
I guess I'll wait for your new mod.
Can you upload your save? I'd like to take a crack at this battle. I'll share the strat once I figure something out.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

dive_darkness

Will do later, but it's basically just a lv 60 party with all equipments available multiple times if needed (I farmed for them ^^)

Drakozor: at lv 60, pure unleash party, you have a mean of 1000 damage/round. He dies quickly. His only dangerous attack is darksol breath (or something like that) in combination with a close djinn storm and a cruel ruin.
All his other psy are jokes. He's slow, so he basically waste an action when he use earth force (unless he djinnstormed you and you play with garet. But who plays with garet ?)

leaf

Okay. I haven't played the hack myself, so I don't have a save file of my own.

As an independent discoverer of the optimal dullahan strat in vanilla, you sparked my curiosity for this one. I want to see what can be done when faced with this summon constraint, since the vanilla strat involves a shitton of multielemental summons.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

dive_darkness

Vanilla dullahan is just about spamming eclipse, then Daedalus, and pray for no djinn storm and not too many dark contact. Then reapeat If you can

Caledor

My dullahan is supposed to be about as strong as a vanilla hard mode one without summon rushing. Maybe trying to beat that one first will help in getting accustomed to it

leaf

#1094
Quote from: dive_darkness on 13, August, 2016, 06:07:23 AM
Vanilla dullahan is just about spamming eclipse, then Daedalus, and pray for no djinn storm and not too many dark contact. Then reapeat If you can
Actually, it's about getting the right RNG on turn 1 (read as: no djinn storm), because after that you're guaranteed to win. Works with all party levels, even lv1. The trick is creating a speed differential between your party and dullahan turn 1 (using at least mud/vine and probably zephyr/coal depending on how fast your party is), and unleashing flash to protect yourself from whatever damaging attacks he might use. This lets you drop three big summons turn 2 and then call lull before he gets to attack. Turn 3, swap out someone that's used all their djinn and drop four big summons before he gets to attack. If he kills everyone turn 3, that's fine. If he doesn't, swap someone out so you can finish him. Keep petra set in the second party so if you die turn 3 you can get off the remaining requisite summons before he attacks, despite not having the speed advantage anymore. Dully dies on turn 4.

Of course, this strat won't work against cal's dullahan, since you can't use a lv7 summon until turn 5, and can't use a lv8 until turn 6. I'd imagine the optimal strat against cal's dullahan will involve spamming flash and lull to survive long enough to get access to your big guns. I'd have to do some further research into what effect lull or ground/petra has on dully's pattern, though, to figure out exactly *how* to do that reliably. There are two possibilities: either dully's pattern gets delayed, or it skips the action he was going to do. If I had to guess, lull probably does the former, and ground/petra probably do the latter. If that's the case, the optimal survival strat would be to unleash lull as often as possible, and tie up dully using ground/petra/ulysses (pretty sure that summon works consistently, never had to resort to it) when he tries to cast djinn storm/charon.

That's a worst case scenario, though. If both lull and ground/petra delay, then you can potentially lock him up by alternating between rounds of "lull+however many actions you can get out before the lull" and rounds of "set lull, call petra+ground+summon ramses." End result is dully gets 1 action per every two turns, if your lull user is faster than his first action, and your ground user is slower than his first action. As long as you don't have any other venus djinn on standby, the ramses summon will ensure petra and ground become available again in two turns, just in time to continue the loop. Once you survive long enough to get access to your big guns, it's the same as the vanilla strat.

Also, if lull skips his turn instead of delaying it, then you just have to time your lull activation turn to coincide with when he would be using djinn storm/charon.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

dive_darkness

Maybe it works ? The problem then is his dark contact, which often regents him about 500 hp. Additionnally with his 200hp/round. Considering my experience, that means he regen between 600-900 hp every two rounds. Formina sage = heal next turn, that means you have one healer, one "lull-er", one guy with ground/petra, and one guy to attack, and that one guy must do MORE than those 600-900/two rounds.

That strategy would maybe work (if your assumptions are corrects that is), but I'm not gonna chip away at 18000 hp for 4 hours.


Caledor: no, because the two are radically different. On the original game, I can just try to rng a good start to the fight and summon spam him. And without summon spam, just so you know I beat him in normal at lv 80. And even then you have to somewhat summon-spam. Because one bad turn can destroy you (ex: Charon kills healer, sage formina another char, dark contact heals him by 400 hp, you lose a third character).

In your hack, I can't get a good start, because all his moves are fixed. Which means I can't avoid djinn storm with a bit of luck.

leaf

#1096
Well, I'm saying you only stall until you can unload your summons on him. He *will* fall to ~8 big summons (7+ djinn each), even despite the summon nerf. You could inflict zero damage to him prior to that and it wouldn't matter, since you're going to be inflicting all 16k+ to him over 3 turns anyway.

If anything, the turn order being fixed should make this easier, since once a strat is found, it's purely deterministic.

Here's the basic stall:
Lull user - the trickiest one to set up, this should be the *second fastest* member of your team. Furthermore, they should have djinn on standby such that they become the slowest member of your team once one of them becomes set. Most likely, this is ivan or sheba in base class, with a large number of mercury djinn on standby. (edit: third fastest is fine, too, as long as it outspeeds dullahan, and the ground user doesn't)
Ground user - slower than dully's first turn. Depending on how turn order works out, you may even need turtle boots or safety boots for this, in which case, you'll probably have to swap them out on turn 6 so you get off all three summons before the lull.
Petra user, flash user - one of these should be the fastest member of your team (edit: or at least faster than the lull user), the other doesn't matter what their speed is. Most likely, this is who's getting the elven shirt. If you don't need zephyr/coal on the fifth turn, then you can safely make this the flash user, and give them granite or shade as well for that turn.

Turn 1: Unleash petra, ground, and flash. Lull user unleashes vine or mud (if necessary).
Turn 2: Set petra, ground, and flash. Unleash lull.
Turn 3: Set lull. Unleash petra, ground, and flash.
Turn 4: Same as turn 2, but the fastest member of your team summons moloch (to refresh the agility debuff).
Turn 5: Same as turn 3, but the fastest member of your team unleashes zephyr/coal (if necessary). At the end of this turn, your lull user should have a djinni set to them because of last turn's summon, turning them into the slowest member of your team.
Turn 6: Go ham. If you have to swap someone out, do so, then drop three big summons and unleash lull.
Turn 7: Continue going ham. Swap someone out that has used all 9 of their djinn, then drop four big summons.
Turn 8: If everyone died last turn, fine. If not, swap someone out and finish him off.

You may have to pay careful attention to your party order before the fight if you make use of the standby-all command to place your djinn on standby. The first mercury djinn placed in standby in your party *must* belong to the lull user, otherwise turn 6 won't work correctly. In order to make the most of your one switch per turn, ensure that at least one party member has all 9 of their djinn used on turn 6, otherwise your turn 7 might not be as explosive as it could be.

Quick disclaimer: The exact strat above may totally backfire depending on how dully's turn order interacts with lull and ground/petra. However, this should give you a general guideline you can play with. There are lots of little things you can change in this strat, and tweak as needed to make it work. For example, if it turns out that lull skips his turn rather than delaying it, you can use lull on odd turns instead, which would stuff his turn 5 djinn storm.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Caledor

#1097
@dive: that's what I said. Hard mode dullahan without summon spam. The rest is more or less the same. The reason you can't avoid djinn storm is not cause his moves are fixed, but because the fight lasts longer than the usual 4-turns of summon unleashes. There is just no way you can't beat him on easy mode till level 80 if you don't spam summons. Also, if DC heals him for 4/500 up it means you're taking more than 800 damage from that move... Which I find quite hard to believe

Caledor

Small update: I started working on the mod again. I have updated all enemy groups from Eastern Sea till Prox area, which now features a completely new set of enemies instead of using the same as the western lands.

What's left to do: Check a few other enemy groups - mainly the 4 optional endgame dungeons - then update monsters according to the changes made.

After this i'll probably release a beta version of the new mod, without the change to the level up mechanic, cause that way you guys will be able to play with it and help me fix bugs while i work on implementing that.

JustBeKrillin

Using My Boy! On mobile I cannot seem to save my game. Gives me: unable to detect backup memory and only does this when I use the game patched with your IPS patch.