[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

[Rolina]

So long as you don't try to shoehorn Carlin into Jenna's classes, we're good.  I mean, I know it's the JP version of her Hex class... but... calling her an old woman's a bit much.

[Caledor]

LOL and i even edited my post to add a short comment... only to see that you already replied to what i wrote before it happened! Thanks a lot again guys!

Edit: THAT PYROKINETIC!! Now i get why I was having what weird feeling of something missing!

[Rolina]

@Varden/Not liking Tyrant:  I know, right?  It soooo doesn't fit him!  Maybe as a final form of an alt class, but not his base class, no...

@Executor:  eh, doesn't really have a naval feel to it.  Seems out of place next to all the heavy seaworthy themes.  Alternatively, you could bump everything up and have Seaman be his Tier 1...

[VardenSalad]

@Rolina: I don't really know where I pulled Executor from, but I liked the feel of the word as being above an Admiral. I just know that there's an appropriate word, fictional or otherwise, that would fit above Admiral. I really didn't like Seaman, it's kinda...boring and lazy. I'd rather stick Lieutenant in there.

OH! Or maybe like this:

Piers: Mariner - Lieutenant - Commander - Captain - Commodore - Admiral  (This is correct military rank ascension in English speaking navies.)

Huh, Seaman is actually the lowest naval rank. Maybe I'll re-evaluate. There's really no reason for Piers' classes to be stuck fast in military hierarchies if it doesn't flow. We're playing a fantasy game! Rule of cool definitely has a place here. Maybe Privateer first instead of Mariner?

[Rolina]

Eh, I just looked up Naval Ranks.  Seaman was the lowest, Fleet Admiral was the highest.  But I like your new suggestion more!  Let's go with that!

[VardenSalad]

Executor, Commodore? I'm not sure which one you liked.

Give me a character: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 breakdown for Piers.


Edit: Gotcha, so it looks like this for me.

Piers: Privateer - Lieutenant - Commander - Captain - Commodore - Admiral  (Damn; you know, I did really, really like the sound of Executor, but you're right. It's not seaworthy.)

[Rolina]

Commodore.  Maybe it's because I'm american, but sounds like it's an upgrade of Captain without being higher than Admiral.

[VardenSalad]

@Cale: Hoping you'll do another Character: class 1-6 breakdown post again.

Discussing this stuff was the most fun I've had on this forum yet.

[Caledor]

and i feel like i opened the pandora's box :P
Really glad I asked though, I would've missed a lot of things otherwise. Hope i'll be able to provide the result soon. Stay tuned!

Edit: quick suggestion. Try fitting in Sentinel and Lookout for Garet to replace the void left by baron? Sadly Defender, Protector, Guardian etc are all already taken.

Something like Guard Soldier Lookout Sentinel Phalanx Aegis.

[Rolina]

That sounds great for a class line, just not one for Garet.  While Isaac's classes are named for training as a Knight, and while Felix's make sense to be a mirror or reflection, Garet's are more designed to be the companion.  Don't move on it until you've let us know what you decided to do with Isaac's classes.

For example of what I'm talking about:

Swordsman ↔ Guard
Knight ↔ Soldier
Swordmaster ↔ Warrior
Lord ↔ Baron
Dragon Slayer ↔ Phalanx

In other words:

Sword ↔ Shield

While Felix is the Knave to Isaac's Knight, Garet is the Sword to Isaac's Shield.  Another reflection of sorts.  Don't move on Garet until you decide what to do with Isaac.  If you do my suggestion, I can fetch another FE shout out.

Edit:  HA HA!  One of the FE classes is called Baron - one Garet's JP classes.  What's its later incarnations known as?  General.  All the more fitting because Garet's earlier class is Soldier.

I thus propose

Guard → Soldier → Warrior → Baron → General → Phalanx

Because let's be honest here - Phalanx just sounds top tier.


Oh, I have a mechanical question - off chance you're able to make a counter-attack spell?  Something like Reflux, but in spell form?  


And to answer some other questions:  There's no insistence, so much as it is I'm just using the classes I know.  Mia is called Scribe in her second tier class in the US version, and as we are using US versions as a basis here, I'm just going by what I know.  Besides, her JP version doesn't use that either.  It's Water User → Priest → Bishop → Saint → Angel.

Finally(?) - no pandora's box.  While I vehemently disagree with the idea of making base classes 6 tier (since it defeats the point of the very lore-based reason for Symbiotic classes to be the only 6 tier ones), I find that coming up with hypothetical class lines is fun. ^-^


Splitting this off for easier comparisons:

Rogue → Scrapper → Knave → Mercenary → Dread Fighter → Conqueror
Squire → Swordsman → Knight → Swordmaster → Lord → Great Lord
Guard → Soldier → Warrior → Baron → General → Phalanx

[VardenSalad]

@Rolina: I understand what you mean by companion classes with Garet and Isaac. Maybe we can keep the themes close?

Oh @#$%. I only put 5 classes down for Garet on my breakdown. I guess I'll fix that here.

I'll post both Isaac and Garet's classes so we can look at them next to each other.

Isaac: Squire - Knight - Gallant - Noble - Lord - Sovereign/Regent 
Garet: Guard - Soldier - Ombudsman - Steward(?) - Phalanx - Aegis

Ok, I honestly have no idea how to keep their classes relatively close. Does anyone have knowledge of Medieval European aristocracy? Maybe could find some useful titles in the support system of nobles in manors.

Oh, Rolina posted a breakdown. Okay, let's see. I'll post mine and my reasons, taking your post into account. I'll mark with a * class names that need changed with more input.

Felix: Rogue - Knave* - Outlaw - Mercenary* - Veteran - Conqueror

Scrapper instead of Outlaw, Knave moved up a tier, and Veteran's gone (compared to mine). Aww, I really liked Veteran and Outlaw. Your class names have much more of an edge than mine do. I guess I don't see Felix as the same Chaotic Good character you do. I always figured he was a textbook Neutral Good: Doing his best to follow the law of the land he's currently in because he's trying to save the world from itself. But isn't exactly a free spirit, he's not a trickster. He uses the systems in place in order to get the results he needs. Look at Kibombo, he didn't trick Akafubu into giving up the Orb, he helped Akafubu get what he wanted, and in turn, we got what we wanted. I'm going to stick with the class progression I set up for Felix for these reasons, but I know that it needs changed to reflect Felix as an individual who overcomes challenges, but he's not really a mercenary kind of person. Do you ever browse TVTropes? Felix strikes me as a Determinator kind of person.

Isaac: Squire - Knight - Gallant - Noble* - Lord - Sovereign

Knight bumped up a class and Gallant, Noble, and Sovereign got dropped for Swordsman, Swordmaster, and Great Lord. Well, Isaac does use axes and maces too (don't hit me) but I like the emphasis on swordsmanship as Isaac's craft. He's come of age on a very martial and combat-oriented journey. Maybe my titles didn't emphasize exactly how much fighting really gets done, but that's not everything on the journey. I probably need more terms that convey both martial prowess and high standing. Maybe the French nobility has something good, like Chevalier? I also didn't like Overlord with Lord sitting right behind it.

Garet: Guard - Soldier - Warrior - Baron/Ombudsman* - General - Aegis

So, went with a Fire Emblem title class title, hmm? Generals always were one of my favorite classes; they took punishment way too well for the damage they could dish back and most of the time their RES wasn't low enough to try and drop em with magic. They were great tanks...Golden Sun, yeah. If we keep Noble for Isaac, we can probably keep Baron for Garet, though if a really nice sounding word similar to Sentinel or Seneschal or something like that pops up, I'll switch em both at once. Between Aegis and Phalanx, I like Aegis more; while it's just a term for a shield, phalanx is a formation and we aren't fighting in large groups.

Solid points, I just wish I had a better knowledge of medieval European titles, both military and noble. I know the words we want are hidden in there. 

[Caledor]

Quick answers/questions.

General is already taken.
Religious in place of Scribe?
Reflux should be viable as a spell.
Chavalier, Cavalier, Knight etc is that they all translate to the same word in italian so it's kind of an issue for me.
I'm almost done. I left Ivan for last cause he should be pretty easy.

[VardenSalad]

Ok.

1. Damn.
2.Religious doesn't work in English well, since it's an adjective. Maybe something like Curator?
3. Cool. Dunno how to balance it though.
4. Are there any Italian terms we could just shove into the english version? We really have no problem grabbing terms from other languages given the stuff like Dragoon, Miko, and Sybil in this game. Maybe something like Legionary/Legionarius?

Let us know what you pick. Ultimately, it's your call.

[Caledor]

Ok.

1. Damn.
2.Religious doesn't work in English well, since it's an adjective. Maybe something like Curator?
3. Cool. Dunno how to balance it though.
4. Are there any Italian terms we could just shove into the english version? We really have no problem grabbing terms from other languages given the stuff like Dragoon, Miko, and Sybil in this game. Maybe something like Legionary/Legionarius?

Let us know what you pick. Ultimately, it's your call.

2. Your pick. Anything church-related fits better than Scribe IMO.
3. I don't want to put it in, Rolina just asked.
4. I'd rather use them as a last resort thing. They really don't blend well.

Despite what i said i'm having some issues with ivan, cause Wizard, Mage, Magician, Magus etc all translate to the same word and Magister isn't even magic related (it's more like a university thing). That leaves me with one of those 4, Enchanter, Archmage and Sorcerer... so unless i a nice idea pops up i'll probably have to shove illusionist back in. At least in the japanese version it exists after all.

My pick after reading again and again those 2 pages of posts is:

Isaac: Squire - Knight - Gallant - Noble - Lord - Sovereign
Garet: Guard - Soldier - Warrior - Baron - Phalanx - Aegis
Ivan: Bolt User - Magician - Illusionist* - Enchanter - Archmage - Sorcerer
Mia: Water User - Religious* - Cleric - Saint - Angel - Seraph

Felix: Rogue - Knave - Outlaw - Mercenary - Veteran - Conqueror
Jenna: Flame User - Witch - Hex - Pyrokinetic - Fire Master - Incendiary
Sheba: Wind User - Sybil - Mystic - Priestess - Pythia - Prophet
Piers: Mariner - Lieutenant - Commander - Captain - Commodore - Admiral

* = Pending.

EDIT: suggestion for Mia. Chaplain?

[VardenSalad]

Actually, chaplain isn't bad. It's growing on me.

What do you think about ecclesiast, evangelist, missionary, or vicar? That's the best Google has to give. Lemme know how you feel about those.

Ivan: Charmer, Forecaster, Occultist, Maven, Thaumaturge, Virtuoso. I dunno, I'm pretty much tapped out for terms and the suggestions I gave may work.

I just want to say how good Sheba's class series is. They flow well, they have historical origins, and they're accurate. 

[VardenSalad]

Also, sorry for double posting but I could have sworn that I saw somewhere that you had Felix's dialogue changed in the Trial Road scene from "Why?" to "?". I just wanted to say that it is still showing up as "Why?".

If that isn't an issue, just lemme know.

[Caledor]

Actually, chaplain isn't bad. It's growing on me.

What do you think about ecclesiast, evangelist, missionary, or vicar? That's the best Google has to give. Lemme know how you feel about those.

Ivan: Charmer, Forecaster, Occultist, Maven, Thaumaturge, Virtuoso. I dunno, I'm pretty much tapped out for terms and the suggestions I gave may work.

I think Ivan is better left off as it is, and just try to fill the gap. Regarding Mia... I'd rather use Officiant and i don't really get why it doesn't work for you guys. So let's leave it pending for now.

Also, sorry for double posting but I could have sworn that I saw somewhere that you had Felix's dialogue changed in the Trial Road scene from "Why?" to "?". I just wanted to say that it is still showing up as "Why?".

If that isn't an issue, just lemme know.

actually i never changed that. the only dialogue line i changed in both games is the "felix must unlock the power" at the beginning of Broken Seal.

[VardenSalad]

For Mia, do what you have to. It's not like you pulled Officiant from thin air; it was already in the game.

Names look fine to me. There were so many class renames anyways that I'm sure it will all flow just fine.

[Caledor]

For Mia, do what you have to. It's not like you pulled Officiant from thin air; it was already in the game.

Ehm... no. I DID pull it out of thin air.
jp mia is water user, priest, bishop, saint, angel
us mia is water seer, scribe, cleric, paragon, angel.

[VardenSalad]

Really? I could have sworn it was a class in vanilla. I guess I didn't look that hard or double-check myself.

I'm still a fan of Chaplain, personally.

@Rolina: You have any more ideas?