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[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

Started by Caledor, 24, January, 2015, 12:29:46 PM

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VardenSalad

#240
No problem.

@Caledor: You're going to want to make the Knight's Greave and Silver Greave into "Greaves" plural. Much like the Ninja Sandals and the Leather Boots. Cool additions, by the way, just grabbed the Silver Greaves.

We'll never know why the devs cut the some of those items.
Never forget why you started playing.

VardenSalad

#241
Alright, you got me. I give up. What's the deal with the Sentinel? The guy is completely ridiculous. And I really don't want to have to use the only truly foolproof strategy in the game (against anything that can't hit Djinn) which is alternating Damage Reduction Djinn with 2 people, healing with 1, and summoning with the other.

1. I can't outrun his RES lowering move with Resist, since his hits for -40 and mine is +20 AoE. Thus, ignoring his RES lowering seems to be the plan.

2. I can't open with Steam, Resist, Resist, Rime, because the Psynergy seal is off in two turns and he spends those turns using Mind Crush 3 times. Then Break eventually.

3. I can't seal away his RES lowering move, since sealing his Psynergy actually causes him to basically do nothing but Mind Crush.

4. I can't try to out-DPS him with hard-hitting Psynergy, since he's immune.

Thus, the current strategy of alternating Flash and Shade between two people (since you can't Break or RES-lower the damage reduction away) and having Felix run through 4 Djinn and cast Judgement. I'm currently in the 45th minute of the battle. Please tell me there's some secret strategy that I missed and that the Sentinel is actually super-vulnerable to Poison, or you can Haunt him, or the Trident removes his Psynergy shield, or something. Cuz I'm really out of ideas beyond summon-rushing or Sol Blade-spamming.  



Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

Quote from: VardenSalad on 04, May, 2015, 03:52:01 PM
Alright, you got me. I give up. What's the deal with the Sentinel? The guy is completely ridiculous. And I really don't want to have to use the only truly foolproof strategy in the game (against anything that can't hit Djinn) which is alternating Damage Reduction Djinn with 2 people, healing with 1, and summoning with the other.

1. I can't outrun his RES lowering move with Resist, since his hits for -40 and mine is +20 AoE. Thus, ignoring his RES lowering seems to be the plan.

2. I can't open with Steam, Resist, Resist, Rime, because the Psynergy seal is off in two turns and he spends those turns using Mind Crush 3 times. Then Break eventually.

3. I can't seal away his RES lowering move, since sealing his Psynergy actually causes him to basically do nothing but Mind Crush.

4. I can't try to out-DPS him with hard-hitting Psynergy, since he's immune.

Thus, the current strategy of alternating Flash and Shade between two people (since you can't Break or RES-lower the damage reduction away) and having Felix run through 4 Djinn and cast Judgement. I'm currently in the 45th minute of the battle. Please tell me there's some secret strategy that I missed and that the Sentinel is actually super-vulnerable to Poison, or you can Haunt him, or the Trident removes his Psynergy shield, or something. Cuz I'm really out of ideas beyond summon-rushing or Sol Blade-spamming.
Very interesting. Could you upload your save somewhere? I want to try fighting him myself.

VardenSalad

#243
Sure, Google Drive link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0nhGYVISYEQZmlxbDVWVXJFQnc/view?usp=sharing

File should be Golden Sun - The Lost Age - Rebalanced.sav

Pretty sure .sav is the right format.
Never forget why you started playing.

leaf

#244
...why did you swap the names of corona and fever? That @#$% is beyond confusing.

edit: Just beat sentinel on your file. I used base classes and just did a basic djinn -> summon strat, with either mia or jenna constantly healing. Probably would've been wise to put a couple djinn on standby for them before the battle, but I was trying to take it raw, so everyone went in with fully set djinn. My first party (isaac's party) actually got wiped out about halfway through the battle, which caught me by surprise. I wasn't planning on having to use the second party at all, so they were woefully underequipped. I didn't even have a weapon on felix, so I ended up relying on iron/meld/mold/petra/mud, which are all useful even without an atk stat. And of course, summons did by far the majority of the damage. Despite my horrid preparations on felix's party, I'd say the fight actually got easier when it switched to them, since I could pump out eclipse reliably while still having constant heals up.

A couple notes: The mercury djinn that inflict debuffs are amazing and should be used whenever possible (gel, chill, sour, etc). Eclipse can also drop sentinel's atk, which gives suitable breathing room against mind crush. Rime and luff are useless; they encourage him to spam his strongest attack, which hurts more than it helps. The psynergy isn't really a threat as long as you're spamming aoe heals every turn, so just keep his atk down and you win easy.

[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Caledor

#245
@VardenSalad. Won with my favorite class setup. Put all the offensive weight on the Sol Blade weilder, spam aoe healing, bait him into losing a turn to Splash by buffing Isaac/Felix's attack, hide behind granite etc when things start to go bad... usual stuff. As a side note I suffered 6 deaths (the 3 girls, 2 each, 4 revived at the end of the battle), no party wipes, isaac was swapped out due to having finished his PP to buffing and healing, summoned 2 times: Ramses and Zagan.

The class setup is:
Isaac - Warlord
Garet - Shogun
Ivan - Wise
Mia - Pure Mage
Felix - Chaos Lord <---- Put Sol Blade here, + all crits increasing equipment.
Jenna - Mystic Miko
Sheba - Fateweaver
Piers - Sea Lord

Quote from: leaf on 04, May, 2015, 05:49:05 PM
...why did you swap the names of corona and fever? That @#$% is beyond confusing.
The english translators swapped them the in the first place. I merely restored things to how they should've been from the start.

leaf

QuoteThe english translators swapped them the in the first place. I merely restored things to how they should've been from the start.
Don't do that. It's confusing as hell. Fever does damage. Corona buffs defense. That's how it's always been for any english speaking player of GS. I thought I had gone crazy when I selected corona and the cursor suddenly was targeting sentinel instead of my party. Then imagine my surprise when I try to use fever and suddenly my party is selected. There was never any need to change this. Especially when a djinni named "fever" inflicting delusion actually makes some amount of sense, and "corona" could be just about anything. It'd be one thing if it was an obvious error, but it isn't. If you didn't know ahead of time that the english team had swapped the names, you wouldn't have any reason to question it.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

VardenSalad

#247
Gonna side with Leaf on the Djinn thing. If the original way they translated hadn't already made sense, you might have grounds to change it.

For Sentinel, I knew it was only going to be tough, I just think I underestimated him completely. Holy moly, the first fight I Rime'd him and he proceeded to kill Jenna with 3 straight Mind Crushes, caught me totally off guard. I'll admit that this will be my first run-through of the superbosses doing something other than summon-rushing, so forgive my whiny outburst. Getting to the end of the series and then walking all over the superbosses defeats the whole point.  

I'm glad other people got a file to poke around the superbosses; Islet Cave is the first optional dungeon I've been to, so anyone could play to the end if they wanted. Pretty sure the only item I didn't go out of my way to grab is the Prophet's Hat, so you can grab whatever set-up you'd like (to an extent, still gonna have to do some crafting).

@Caledor: The Diamond Mace is pretty cool. Can you give me the breakdown of its unleash? I know it stuns and the green color suggests Venus-type?  
Never forget why you started playing.

Rolina

Quote from: leaf on 04, May, 2015, 05:49:05 PM
...why did you swap the names of corona and fever? That @#$% is beyond confusing.

HA!  Called it!  Sometimes, it's just best to go with what people are familiar with. :3

What applied to my statement with classes applies here - sometimes, changes aren't necessary - they just make things confusing for no good reason.

VardenSalad

Gottem. Man, it got pretty scary at some points. I think creative uses of Lull from Sea Lord Piers played a big part, since I could get a full round in to heal if HP got crazy low before calling a truce.

Pretty tricky switching Sentinel's strength from crushing armor to crushing resistances. Nice job keeping the feel of the original while ramping up the difficulty of the engagement.
Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

#250
Quote from: Rolina on 04, May, 2015, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: leaf on 04, May, 2015, 05:49:05 PM
...why did you swap the names of corona and fever? That @#$% is beyond confusing.

HA!  Called it!  Sometimes, it's just best to go with what people are familiar with. :3

What applied to my statement with classes applies here - sometimes, changes aren't necessary - they just make things confusing for no good reason.
That, or people could just spend some time reading the list of name changes i wrote, in order to avoid said confusion. It's not like I tried to troll anyone.

@VardenSalad. Maces always increase power of the element they unleash, so Jupiter. moreover, the Diamond mace is the Vajra Mace from Dark Dawn. I just couldn't name it Vajra due to the annoying text compression.
About Sentinel, he's the Jupiter superboss, he casts like there's no tomorrow and has a single physical attack. I thought debuffing resistance was more fitting for him. Eagerly waiting for your comments on Star Magician now... Valukar is pretty much the same, just a bit scarier.

VardenSalad

Ahh, I shoulda checked the details of the mace before posting.

Star Magician is definitely my favorite enemy in Golden Sun. I remember enjoying the changes Dark Dawn made it him, but it's been a while. I thought he was an extremely interesting enemy and I expect his fight to be challenging, and the same but different. That's the hallmark of good modding.

Time to grind Dark Matters.

Never forget why you started playing.

Salanewt

I don't really want to give too much input until I actually try these hacks out (want to take care of a couple things first), but I think I agree with the others on the naming thing. Not for the same reason though, and this is really the only one I have read that sticks out. The reason why is because a fever is usually associated with illness, and sick people are often somewhat weaker than healthier individuals; doesn't really make a lot of sense for it to do the opposite of what a fever normally signifies. On the other hand, corona (which is more or less the plasma around the sun) doesn't really strike me as something overly damaging either. I can see the delusion thing, but I see that more with having an illness that may or may not be contagious. Plus, corona is something that envelopes the sun, which also feels like something of a defensive property...

Totally up to you, of course.


Ditto with the Star Magician thing, I am really looking forward to fighting it in this hack.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

VardenSalad

#253
Ok, why is every single cursed item really, really good? What am I supposed to do with 6 really, really good (and 2 pretty darn good) cursed items when I only have one Angel's Ring? It's awesome.

I'm kinda surprised the Darksword didn't get additional attributes, although it is hard to argue with the highest ATK in the game.
Never forget why you started playing.

leaf

#254
Oh yeah... you were concerned about base classes being underpowered at endgame, right? After fighting sentinel in base classes, I can safely say that base classes aren't underpowered in the least. If I were to run with strictly base classes, I'd probably use piers+jenna as core, with the venus/jupiter adepts being pretty interchangeable. Because offensive mercury djinn get by far the best secondary effects in the game, felix's party is already near optimized in this respect. I think ivan+isaac fill the remaining slots better than sheba+felix, for extra access to revive and the impact psynergy being more useful on a jupiter adept than venus, but vital boon is really strong, so there's a fair tradeoff there. Once you factor in putting the breath djinni on ivan, or the quartz djinni on felix, there isn't really that big of a difference either way.

Base classes do one thing very well: djinn -> summon. Technically, dual classes can do it too, but it requires a bit more planning and is less user friendly. You have to alternate using the djinn of your primary and alt elements, since if you use two primary or two alt, you'll drop two full tiers; this means on no later than the third djinni, you'll have dropped two tiers with dual classes, but only after the fourth djinni with base classes. On the other hand, dual classes have better stats with 5 set djinn than base classes do, so that's the tradeoff.

QuoteThat, or people could just spend some time reading the list of name changes i wrote, in order to avoid said confusion. It's not like I tried to troll anyone.
You've had 4 out of 4 people tell you that swapping corona/fever is a bad idea now. Could you at least *try* to see why going with the original localization is sometimes better than going with what may or may not be technically "correct?" Most of the other changes to localization you made don't make a big difference for conventional gameplay, but this is definitely a case where it does. Even after knowing they're swapped, it still takes conscious effort to remember that they are, to not use the wrong djinni accidentally.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Rolina

Remember what I said about unnecessary changes.  Sometimes, it's better to go with what people are familiar with than what the "originals" did.  What's more, you didn't even commit.  Flint isn't Solo, and Echo isn't Duo.  Many of the JP names just aren't used.  Not only do you have expectations working against you, you also have a lack of consistency. 

Caledor

Guys... I could seriously keep argumenting this naming thing again and again, but I'm really getting tired of reading answers that could be summed up as "I'm used to the old names", or things that DO actually make sense like what Lord Squirtle said, but that is really unlikely that the localization team even considered, when paired with the chance that they just messed up two names that are close to each other.

So: for v1.30 the names will be swapped again, but please, let's all move forward. I don't want to see this topic being brought up ever again.

QuoteOk, why is every single cursed item really, really good? What am I supposed to do with 6 really, really good (and 2 pretty darn good) cursed items when I only have one Angel's Ring? It's awesome.

I'm kinda surprised the Darksword didn't get additional attributes, although it is hard to argue with the highest ATK in the game.
Glad you like them, it's exactly the reaction i was hoping to see: regretting having to let go some of those items. Too bad only one of them is equippable by mages... this usually makes player favor the warrior set. If icon tweaking becomes reality someday, one of the things i plan to do is to put the Stealth Armor properties into the Demon Mail, and make the Stealth Armor itself a Robe.

VardenSalad

I actually want to know if anyone went further on the save file. Everyone basically got a free pass to the endgame.
Never forget why you started playing.

Aile~♥

Quote from: Caledor on 04, May, 2015, 08:13:11 PM
Quote from: Rolina on 04, May, 2015, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: leaf on 04, May, 2015, 05:49:05 PM
...why did you swap the names of corona and fever? That @#$% is beyond confusing.

HA!  Called it!  Sometimes, it's just best to go with what people are familiar with. :3

What applied to my statement with classes applies here - sometimes, changes aren't necessary - they just make things confusing for no good reason.
That, or people could just spend some time reading the list of name changes i wrote, in order to avoid said confusion. It's not like I tried to troll anyone.

@VardenSalad. Maces always increase power of the element they unleash, so Jupiter. moreover, the Diamond mace is the Vajra Mace from Dark Dawn. I just couldn't name it Vajra due to the annoying text compression.
About Sentinel, he's the Jupiter superboss, he casts like there's no tomorrow and has a single physical attack. I thought debuffing resistance was more fitting for him. Eagerly waiting for your comments on Star Magician now... Valukar is pretty much the same, just a bit scarier.
If the Diamond Mace is actually the Vajra Mace, then shouldn't its unleash be a blast of lightning? I'd be personally inclined to recycle the animation from Lightning Breath to properly represent Final Nemesis. I don't know what its unleash effect actually looks like, but since they're saying it looks Venus-aligned I'm hazarding a guess at something green, yellow, or brown in colour.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

VardenSalad

It's a green circular ring emanating from the enemy. I think I have Sheba equipped with it in the .sav.
Never forget why you started playing.