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[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

Started by Caledor, 24, January, 2015, 12:29:46 PM

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Caledor

Finally started my own playtrough: just ended the prologue, got Flint and... new game again to test the adjustments made. Lol at this rate it's gonna be another year only to beat doom dragon.

Salanewt

Haha, well at least you're testing them. One of the last things I want to do for Disco Sun's Balance Update (1/3) is adjust monsters and test, but I have been putting that off for months and months now. :P

Partly because of side projects where I go "oh cool, maybe Star Mine could be a good tiering animation" or the like. Still though.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Caledor

#802
Well, in my case i held off from a full playthrough till now cause i wanted to play a "final" version. Basically i didn't want big changes to occur while i was playing so i could focus on the details better.
For example there were 2 issues with the enemies you fight from Vale to Vault:
1) they're very strong if fought at lv2 (the level you're most likely at by the end of the prologue) cause garet hasn't learned any psynergy yet. That is, unless you have oil drops... in which case you'll just rape them.
2) Ivan joins at lv4 and grinding up to 4 can be annoying.
I didn't want to drop Ivan's starting level like i did in TLA, so I raised the exp granted by all enemies fought between vale and vault and those in the prologue by 1 and halved the chance for amazes to drop oil drops. That's why i had to run through the prologue once again, to check how the prologue was affected by the added exp.

EDIT: Fixing GS1 dialogue: Mind Read on the sick old men at Imil reveals that Alex was Mia's (last) apprentice. But that's wrong, cause they were both studying under Mia's unseen father.

Rolina

If there's a way to tie their XP at the time of joining to Isaac's?  Or is that needlessly complicated?

Caledor

Quote from: Rolina on 16, February, 2016, 06:15:12 PM
If there's a way to tie their XP at the time of joining to Isaac's?  Or is that needlessly complicated?
There isn't. The game uses only the starting level number to determine how much exp you have at the beginning. I managed to tie Jenna's XP in TLA to that of Felix and Sheba cause her solo battles are scripted.

Rolina

That's a shame.  It'd have been neat if we found a way to patch that.

Caledor

Well, with assembly technically everything is possible... but you also have to consider if the time and effort are worth it. In this case... probably not. Tinkering with exp is way easier and the result is pretty much the same.

dive_darkness

Hmm, actually you could do something like, battles before getting Ivan gives no exp, then give everyone a starting level of 2 or 3 (haven't played yet as the game's still being updated). Wouldn't that make every character have the same starting exp ? That way you cannot get OP by farming for the battle with the thieves and also have all character starting with the exact same exp.

I think it should be doable. For instance, in the Risen stars hack, no battle give exp, except the battles in Izumo's Cave and a special random enemy in Treasure Isle.

Dunno if it's doable in your hack though, nor if really useful.

Caledor

Quote from: dive_darkness on 16, February, 2016, 07:36:30 PM
Hmm, actually you could do something like, battles before getting Ivan gives no exp, then give everyone a starting level of 2 or 3 (haven't played yet as the game's still being updated). Wouldn't that make every character have the same starting exp ? That way you cannot get OP by farming for the battle with the thieves and also have all character starting with the exact same exp.
It would work but Young Isaac and Garet would be at 2/3 as well and it really doesn't blend with the setting. Moreover I cannot think like "you mustn't get OP by farming before battle X" because that thing is doable only at the start of each game for 1 battle of choosing. My goal is the opposite: character Y should join at a level that is as close as possible to the average of your party while playing naturally. As things are now Ivan joins while you're halfway trough L3 and you then Isaac and Garet catch up to him while reaching the Goma Cave, before he joins permanently.

dive_darkness

Hmm, good point. I don't see young Isaac being a level 3 without having fought once in his life.
I'll play through your hack Later. Will post my thoughts on it while playing.

Caledor

#810
Thanks, hope you'll like it.
I'll be waiting for your feedback ;)

EDIT:
Playthrough progress report: Healed Tret. Took a little break to fix MANY staves.

Chronotakular

I'm back! Though this time these are more suggestions than anything.

First off, concerning the Caladbolg / Gillman Lords: Something should probably be changed here. I understand you want the weapon to be rare, though right now, based off my own statistics that I've been tracking, the Gillman Lords are roughly 1/17 - 1/20 encounter rate in the back of Treasure Isle, making this weapon a real grind to get. I'd personally would say up the encounter rate on Gillman Lords; though, you could also make it so the Caladbolg has a slightly better chance to drop, which is really the same solution; just a different way to go about it. Either solution would help a lot though.

Second, while Remedy was a good addition, it's worth noting that the character that now has Remedy can't heal poison outside of battle.

Back to killing Gillman Lords.


dive_darkness

Alright, rushed up to Bilibin.
Enemies up 'till now just force you to spam summons. Really. I cannot use isaac's pp for psynergies to keep health up, garet has too little pp, and his psynergy just doesn't hit enough to be worth it (particularly true around Bilibin cave and kolima. All characters level 7-8, best equipments possible. Never used staves up 'till now (pp bonus is too small compared to the atk loss). Went straight for the second Venus djinn. For now, Ramses is my main damage source. Also, sold the turtle boots. -5 agi isn't affordable at this moment (it's the difference between hitting first and nearly having a dead char)

Bandits: got smashed down. Only used one oil drop to test it's power. Didn't even need it, as Venus + ray does more than enough damage to beat the two small ones quickly. Once he's alone, the "big" one goes down with normal attacks quite easily. Had axes for garet and Isaac, staff for ivan. Getting a bit of money for the equipments was the longest. Getting and selling the nuts really speeds up the process here. Also farmed up to level 4 before the bandits because low money too.

And now I'm going for mercury + Kolima. I hope it won't be just "keep on spamming summons to win".

Ps: those aren't critics, just the things I thought while playing. As a good point/addition, mountain water will prove useful for long dungeons later on.

Caledor

#813
@Chrono: Those are nice finds. Consider the Gillman Lord issue fixed for next release: I doubled their encounter rate. They were set up in a way that made this specific enemy very rare (1/8 chance), but i didn't know before cause i never checked them.
Anyway... just abuse the RNG when you find one. There's a 1/256 chance to drop it... factoring the chance to find gillman lords at all, on average it takes more than 1000 battles to gain it (2000 with your encounter rate).

Remedy. My bad, I completely overlooked that fact. There isn't a code for "heal all ailment" that works out of battle, so...
Plan A: make Remedy act as Cure Poison out of battle... Basically, it won't heal Haunt despite being able to do so in battle. I'm not sure it can be done though.
Plan B: move Remedy up a tier (only 9 djinn class and Angel will have it) so you can always gain Cure Poison back just by putting a single djinn on standby.
Haven't decided yet.

@Dive. Quite different from what i got. I'll try to reply to each point.
• Isaac shouldn't be on healing duty cause at LV4 he's got the best offence with Flint, Venus and Earthquake. So I gave Ivan Herbs for emergency heals since he's fast.
• I started my playthrough like 3-4 days ago so I know that summon rushing isn't needed cause i never had to use it. I mean, they're good but Djinn are also very good so i just use the normal sequence of unleash/summon. Also, don't try to rush Tret or Saturos: it's bound to backfire.
• Garet was also amazing for me: the moment he learned Blast the monsters before Vault became a lot easier to deal with. Moreover, he keeps getting better as he grows. His speed is low but has a lot more HP and Def than Isaac. And at 7 he learns Starburst, which is VERY good against everything.
• Staves are also very useful... the random unleash is just too strong.
• About money, I can guarantee that if you find and sell stuff at the beginning that is worth selling like 2-3 nuts, the first water of life and stat-increasing items like Apple, you won't EVER need to grind for them. I always managed to buy everything on the first run at EVERY shop i've been to untill now (= till Kolima).
• Turtle Boots: gave them to Ivan (and he's still wearing them). He's by far the fastest so the agility drop doesn't hurt at all, while the increased defense is very good for him.
Hope you'll find those tips useful, and thanks for reporting!


Also, due to Chrono's finds v1.32 will probably come out sooner... i'd say as soon as I fix the Remedy issue.

Chronotakular

Quote from: Caledor on 17, February, 2016, 08:53:08 PM
@Chrono: Those are nice finds. Consider the Gillman Lord issue fixed for next release: I doubled their encounter rate. They were set up in a way that made this specific enemy very rare (1/8 chance), but i didn't know before cause i never checked them.
Anyway... just abuse the RNG when you find one. There's a 1/256 chance to drop it... factoring the chance to find gillman lords at all, on average it takes more than 1000 battles to gain it (2000 with your encounter rate).

Cool! Always happy to help. I would have probably over looked the Remedy thing myself, to be honest. Also 2000 battles? Good lord. :sad:

VardenSalad

@Cal Is it possible to make Remedy remove your health, revive you, and bring you back to your original health total, in one move? That'd do the same thing as its in-battle effect.

Also, don't hit staves too hard, if at all. Remember that it's a huge gamble on an unleash from your casters, who will be doing virtually no damage with a standard attack. Check DPS calculations, at least.
Never forget why you started playing.

dive_darkness

#816
My Isaac was on healing duty against the fire djinn forge. Otherwise, he's only healing when needed (I hardly ever use the items, as I don't like to do so.) I basically heal whenever the hp drops below 50%, which makes me heal often.
The unleashes on the staves were penumbral and electrocution. Nothing really random. Electrocution don't affect Saturos, so I just skipped it. I prefer having more atk than a very low chance to paralyze.
Unless they don't do what's written in their description ?
Yup. Mainly after Vault (water of life yay), you don't need to grind money, as just selling what you find nets you enough to max all equipments. I know. (Selling stats increasing items ? Never. I always used them right away.)
Didn't try earthquake for now. Quake did too little damage, so I thought earthquake wouldn't be that good either and didn't bother with it. Will try.
Will try also Garet's psy.

Edit: starburst is good. Earthquake is for my team right now the alternative if I don't have Ramses ready.

RE-edit: meh... Does sirens only use froth spiral ? For in one encounter with 3 of them, they only used this, which killed Ivan btw. 70 damage on him is huge. Did I mention that they're faster than all characters lv 10 ?
Which makes me ask: are you supposed to do kolima first, the mercury lighthouse ? Or are they both the same ?
Also, you nerfed granite, didn't you ?

Caledor

#817
@Chrono: that's why i told you to abuse the RNG :P

@Varden: What's that? The best Remedy can do in battle is to heal Haunt... About the staves, no need to worry. All the fixes are very minor like +-a few attack points and/or price changes, and needed only for the equipment's golden rule (From the opening post: "Each piece of equipment found/bought in the game is stronger than anything (of the same type) you could find at an earlier point in the game and weaker than anything found later"). The biggest change of them all is Angelic Ankh's unleash that went from 95 BP to 100. And yes, I always consider DPS for staves. That's the only reason their unleashes can be so strong in the first place.

@Dive: by random I mean "random chance"... obviously the unleashes are the same. But being base power attacks now, they're very strong. Milky Cloud is basically a single target Plasma... at LV4, that's HUGE.
I usually sell all stat-increasing items cause at the beginning it's worth the money, then i buy them back at the end-game and carry them over to TLA.
Sirens cast Froth (25% chance), the first in line. I never had issues with them... actually, they were so underwhelming (too much Heartrender) that I gave them Prism as well. Also, Ivan at 10 should be faster than a Siren, and Isaac becomes faster than them at LV11. Unless you break the sequence and try the Lighthouse before Kolima. In that case i can see why Ivan is slower... he lacks the second Djinn that improves his class. Good luck on fighting Saturos without Breeze BTW :P. The Fur Coat you find in Kolima also helps a lot in the Lighthouse since it improves Mercury resistance.
Granite's effect is the same.

dive_darkness

#818
I never in my whole life did Kolima before Mercury lighthouse. Even on my first playthrough. Aaaaand... Saturos kicked my @#$. I was level 12/13 depending on the character. Eruption does 110 damage on the central target (~ half isaac's max hp with two Venus djinn set). Ivan didn't survive at all.

Maybe I'll just go get the second Jupiter djinn and go back to beat saturos later. I'll still try to beat him like that. Hopefully he only act once/turn.

Met a few sirens again. Still only used froth ><

EDIT:

Saturos beaten. Basically, I just prayed for no Eruption.
I began by summoning with everyone but Isaac (healing duty since he's faster than Mia with his two djinns). Then keep spamming Ice Horn, storm ray and heat wave. Heal with Isaac and use granite when more than one char under the 100 hp mark (basically, eruption inflicts 100+, so I wanted to be safe) while healing with mia on that turn. If needed Ivan use herb/corn to boost a bit more the HP.

I had Isaac and mia level 15. (Unlocks ice horn I think. It's good against saturos)
I guess having the second wind djinn would have helped a lot.

Ps: finally a siren used sleep. Lol, that was the 11th attack I took from a siren. All the 10 before were froth.

Caledor

#819
Breeze is the MVP against Saturos. For reference, usually I beat him at 12 with alt classes (isaac with mercury for Cutting Edge). First turn it's granite forge breeze and sleet, then it's normal business... attack with djinn, cutting edge and summons with Garet and Ivan on healing duty. Never let the res buff vanish and he goes down pretty fast.
15 is definitively overleveled, but I guess that without Breeze it gets a lot harder. Oh, and... praying for no Eruption is useless. Saturos attacks in a sequential pattern so he's BOUND to use it :P