News:

As a consequence of the forum being updated and repaired, the chatbox has been lost.
However, you can still come say hi on our Discord server!

Main Menu

[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

Started by Caledor, 24, January, 2015, 12:29:46 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rolina

Whoa, you had ST buffs last that long?  Seems a bit much, especially with Break working as it does right now.  The only sense I can make for long-duration buffs is if they not only act as an upgrade, but also combine my approach to break along with cutting break's success rate in half.

Caledor

#981
Class lineup for v1.35 is done (unless i happen to reconsider something for the 300000th time) and can be seen HERE.

Heal (thanks to Role for choosing the name for me btw :P) had a very big impact on the whole thing, cause it made me change the Miko series and from there I rebalanced most of the dual mage classes. Also, this prompted me to reconsider the power buffs, shifting from single element buffs to double. So no more Clear/Leda Bracelet all the way to the end game cause Selene's Armlet will be added and will buff both Jupiter and Mercury, Big Bang Gloves will buff both Mars and Venus... and many more.

After the aforementioned item changes it will be enemies, and then release.

Well... it was supposed to be mostly about debuff and ailments but i think it already contains more changes than v1.30 as it is now.

@Role: shouldn't that be an argument in favor of the current break? Like, buffs last too long and break keeps them in check? ATM I don't really know what i'll do with break though. I can only say i'll start with lower priority among the enemy's moves and consider bigger nerfs from there. Also, let me clarify that it's not ST buffs but "stronger" buffs (my bad), so Breeze, Iron and Forge will last for 5 turns.
Also, it's not my doing, they've always been like that. Every effect, be it buffs, debuffs or ailment in vanilla TLA lasts for max 7 turns; the only exceptions i remember are Luff and Rime that can last up to 16 turns. This is the first time i'm seriously working on them if we ignore the delusion/haunt thing.

Rolina

No, that's an argument against the extended buffs.  Don't make them last long if you're just going to punish people for using them anyways.  Unless a long term buff can resist break, then what the hell is the point? 

Luff and Rime last that long?  In vanilla, I always got the feeling they lasted half the time of a normal bind, since they're guaranteed.  I could never hold bind onto Deadbeard for more than one turn, for instance.  Luck on foes worth using it on is high enough they shrug it off quickly anyways.

Caledor

#983
Quote from: Rolina on 18, April, 2016, 03:43:24 PM
No, that's an argument against the extended buffs.  Don't make them last long if you're just going to punish people for using them anyways.  Unless a long term buff can resist break, then what the hell is the point?
Again, it's not like i made them last that long. I discovered turn durations like... last week?

Quote
Luff and Rime last that long?
Potentially. Deadbeard shrugs off everything after a single turn anyway:

60*3 - 14*5 + 30 = 140% chance to dispel Seal after a turn.

Rolina

Wait, they last that long in vanilla?  Really?  I had always thought it was just for 4 turns...  Hell, that's why all the supports in my system are based around that.

@Luff and Rime:  Yeah, which is why I never understood the logic of claiming you could shut him down with seals.  To me, it never seemed to stick long enough to matter.

dive_darkness

Okay, went further. Now just the boat left and we'll go explore the eastern sea !

So, water djinn near Naribwe: easy. Planet diver + starburst + punishment/heal bring him down in 3-4 turns. He don't do much damage.

Kibombo mounts: enemies here hit hard. Assassins and pixies are the most dangerous (pixies in particular). They don't do a phenomenal amount of damage, but pixies strike first (even at lv18), and they often use wind blades, which does ~50 damages.
Wind djinn: remember that I have piers when fighting him. I tried summon spam. Went down in 2 turns and a half.

Gabomba: demons an salamanders will hurt you the most. Salamanders often come alone, so they're not so dangerous, but demons can quickly wreck you. They hit twice, they hit hard, either with mad growth or their special skill that has a chance to lower you hp to 1. And they hit twice. To add to this, they're often by groups of two, or one with another enemy. Worst case you get is two demons spamming their psy.
Don't bother getting the staff, it's not that good. Psy staff gets you your pp backs, and it isn't really weaker (2atk points, lol)
Earth Djinn: went down in 3turns, finished him with boreas. Easy fight, especially now that you have piers. 4 water djinns on Jenna gives her wish (yup, OP)

Next: aqua hydra and the jellies.

leaf

...isn't the point of the djinn that they're easy? Like, I'm pretty sure it's been said in topic at some point. Reason being is since they can run away, the fight shouldn't go on for an extended period of time. If they didn't run away, then making them more like bosses would be appropriate.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Rolina


Aile~♥

Yeah, Djinn having a chance to flee means you can't even really make the fight short but intense, 'cause there'd be the risk of the RNG deciding to have the Djinni stick around for most of the fight, dealing a bunch of damage to your party, only to flee at the last moment, which ends up costing you a lot of resources for no gain.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

VardenSalad

One of the first, if not the first, things I did when I learned how to use the editor was remove the flee chance from djinn. I hate few things in vanilla GS as much. Maybe if it was only overworld djinn. Maybe. But for djinn in dungeons? No.

It's not worth tweaking them well if they're just going to run away; they're too important and some are in locations totally not conducive to leaving and re-entering a room.
Never forget why you started playing.

dive_darkness

Or maybe, like me, you save before fighting them and just load if he runs away.

I'm not really complaining that djinns are weaks (well, in general yes), but that sometimes, like in gabomba statue, that they are less dangerous than a NORMAL encounter in the same area (double demon wrecks you quickly). If they're not Boss-level fights, at least they aren't easier than normal ones.

Caledor

#991
I want djinn battles to be short (2~4 turns) but intense. Right now they have a 8% chance to run away per turn, which means that on average you'll experience a single "Flee" per 3~4 djinn fought.

As for TLA enemies... i know there are issues, but i haven't started working on them yet. Still very busy with Classes, Debuffs, Character stats and now Healing too: I decided i'm going to halve the bonus granted by elemental power to healing, to put them on par with damage.
Since the whole game is shifting from single elemental bonuses to double thanks to new/tweaked bracelets, the question became - for classes that can do both -  "do i improve heal or damage?". Right now the answer is obvious: heals grows twice as fast as damage with elemental power.
Well, this shouldn't happen so i'm lowering elemental bonus and raising base power of healing. This has the nice side effect of making healing from warriors slightly better cause they don't use a lot of power-boosting items in the first place.

Aile~♥

This seems like a decent place for this question: the Advanced Reviving effect that Squirtle made and you're using... is its power (and thus the percent of HP restored) affected by Elemental Power? It would be pretty cool if it was.

(Also I'd still really like that %-based healing formula, especially factoring Elemental Power into the percent healed.)
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Caledor

No it's not affected. i already thought about doing that btw and i'm pretty sure i can manage somehow. Won't happen anytime soon though. My "ToDo" list is quite overloaded ATM.

Aile~♥

Quote from: Caledor on 25, April, 2016, 03:53:58 PM
No it's not affected. i already thought about doing that btw and i'm pretty sure i can manage somehow. Won't happen anytime soon though. My "ToDo" list is quite overloaded ATM.
I don't actually know how it works in the code, but I suspect it would be fairly simple to first modify the ability's Power value using the caster's Elemental Power and then use the modified value in the HP restoration function.

In any case, I can tell you have a rather large To-Do list right now, yeah.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

dive_darkness

We're back for Aquahydra ! Yay !

This one was a true pain in the @#$. Seriously. Drench and raging wave are annoying (especially the latter, which hits for more than 100 on everyone). Did i mention he hits twice a turn ?
Well it took me a few tries to adjust my strategy.

Felix: 4 Mars djinns - start with two out, use kindle on first turn, char on second (with a little luck, maybe you can paralyze him ?), third turn meteor (raise Mars power). Then planet diver until he dies.

Jenna: 4 water djinns, first turn attack, then wish until fight ends.

Sheba: 3 earth djinns, 1 water (shade). Use shade, set it back, use shade, set it back, and so on... Boring duh.

Piers: 4 wind djinns. He does a bit of everything here. First turn he used impact on Felix, got his attack up when it wears off. Then he heals when someone has really low hp and wish isn't enough. Astral blast when nothing better to do. At the end of the fight, because he had no more pp, he unleashed all his djinns, then Sheba used Thor. Ether is used on Jenna to give her more op to use wish ^^

That's it. Food luck to everyone else. Won the fight at lv 18 for everyone but piers, whose lv was 19.

Radamanthys

Aqua hydra and Poseidon have been the toughest bosses for me so far, even after getting wiped out and grinding a few levels I had a hard time and near wipe-outs

Caledor

#997
I CAN SEE THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL!!

Seriously, all that's left are enemies now. Which is still A LOT of work, but after tweaking (de)buffs, character stats, healing, djinn, unleashes, classes and items I can safely say the vast majority of the job is done.

So, let's recap:

Classes are FINAL and you can read the new setup here. Please notice the changes to vulnerabilities too. These are all ailments now (no more atk/def/res debuffs) so they're going to play a huge part in fights.

Character Stats: More HP (moved from Djinn), Luck grows with levels, other minor tweaks.

Items: MANY items tweaked. Really. Also, there's the new Selene's Armlet (boosts Jupiter and Mercury Power).

Djinn: Grant less HP (HP lost moved to each character's individual growth) and a few other tweaks.

Unleashes: Rearranged unleash bonuses from equipment and slightly raised the numbers. Staves' unleashes are a bit stronger overall.

Buffs & Debuffs: The reason the whole thing started: less buffs and more debuffs in classes. Then it escalated into tweaks to the infliction and recovery formula, lower duration for stronger buffs, higher infliction chance for weaker debuffs (to make them useful against single enemies like bosses) and more.

Healing: Higher base power, lower multiplier from elemental power (2/3 of its original strength).

[spoiler=Detailed Partial Changelog]New Psynergies: Heal series, Paralyze, Poison
Spark Plasma, Lava Shower line are stronger. Rockfall line is weaker.
Healing tweaked: higher base power, higher PP cost for strongest ones, Elemental power relevance lowered to 2/3 of its original value.
Almost every class tweaked.
Most unleashes of staves and ankhs are slightly stronger.
Halved HP gained from Djinn, same amount added to each character's growth. Other minor tweaks to djinn's stat bonuses.
PP, Defense and Agility growth rebalanced, Luck grows with levels, Piers' Luck swapped with Jenna's. Djinn grant less Luck.
Character's base elemental stats rearranged.
Having Luck higher than 40 grants immunity to Sleep and Stun.
Changed which buffs/debuffs and ailments are available at certain class tiers
Buffs and Debuffs revamped: Multi-target ones have a range of 5. Stronger ones have lower success chance (debuffs) or duration (buffs).
Spirit Gloves from TBS renamed Mystery Gloves to avoid confusion with Spirit Gloves from TLA.
Demon Spear and Angel Spear renamed Bravery and Courage.
Champion and Hero renamed Herald and Archon. Rebel renamed Infidel.
Other minor tweaks

New Item: Selene's Armlet (strongest bracelet, Boosts Jupiter and Mercury Power)
Water jacket, Dragon Scales, Black Garb, Princess Robe, Kimono, Triton Ward, Cocktail Dress, Aerial Gloves, Bone Armlet, Spirit Gloves (TBS), Devil's Crown, Jester's Armlet, Astral Circlet, Fear Helm, Gloria Helm, Terror Shield, Demon Circlet, Berserk Circlet, Ardagh Robe, Aeolian Cassock, Iris Robe, Virtuous Armlet, Spirit Armlet, Crafted Gloves, Leda's Armlet, Titan Gloves, Big Bang Gloves, Mythril Armlet, Safety Boots, Adept Ring, Iridal Ring tweaked
Ankhs, Lucky Peppers, Blessed Mace, Cheongsam, Fairy Ring, Arcadia Mail, Festival Happi, Iris Robe, Floating Hat, Brilliant Circlet, Divine Camisole, Casual Shirt, Guardian Ring grant Less Luck
Valkyrie Mail, Mythril Clothes, Mythril Helm, Aura Gloves, Aegis Shield, Erinyes Tunic, Stealth Armor: critical boost increased. Hyper Boots, Ninja Sandals: lowered
Propeth's Hat boosts PP; Millenium Helm and Xylion Armor boost Power, Glorious Helm boosts Luck, War Gloves and War Ring boost criticals, Muni Robe boosts & replenishes HP, Mysterious Robe boosts Earth Power & Resist, Iris Robe replenishes HP.
Dragon Mail, Dragon Robe, Dragon Shield and Dragon Helm bestow psynergies instead of boosting stats (respectively High Impact, Screen, Protect and Fire Breath BP 110).
[/spoiler]

I'll edit this post later to add the new functions for debuffs and healing and other things. Gotta go now.

Functions
Ailment/Debuff Infliction chance: [(Caster's_Level/4 - Target's_Luck/2)*3 + Base_chance + Vulnerability's_25]*Area_multiplier
Ailment Recovery Chance: Luck - Level/2 - Turns*5 + Base_chance
Healing: Base_Power * [((Ele_Power-100)*2/3 + 100)/100]

Also, I decided that there won't be a v1.35 for the Balance Age. All of this will be released as a separate mod when it's done, mainly for two reasons.
1) this can't be considered an upgrade since you literally have to start over due to all the changes to character stats.
2) The whole thing can't be considered just a rebalance anymore. After summon nerfs, new animations, ailments changed and the new changes to buffs, debuffs and healing it's more like a full-fledged overhaul.

Well it won't change anything for you guys. It'll just mean a new thread for me and a clearer reminder for everyone that there's no upgrade without starting over.

Salanewt

Yay, nice work!

Ailment infliction: So does this mean that eLevels are no longer used?
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Rolina

Agreed on the point about character stats.  That's not something you can "reset" to fix.  Any idea what the new name will be?