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Brainstorming: How to do a Cursed Ring

Started by Rolina, 28, March, 2015, 06:24:57 PM

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Rolina

So, you know how cursed items are supposed to be these powerful pieces of equipment that might stun you for a turn instead if you don't have the Fallen Angel's/Cleric's Ring on?  Well, I've been thinking... what would justify a Cursed Ring?  What would it have to do in order to be a viable alternative to the Cleric's Ring?  I imagine it wouldn't be a simple buff or effect like other rings - this would have to be big enough to rival the usefulness of the Cleric's Ring.

The idea came from Jamie's item in the chat that gives you another turn, but is cursed.  I had wondered what would be a great slot for that that also allows the curse removing effects of the Cleric's Ring, and Ring just popped in my head.  So apart from, say, this "Dark Seeker's Ring" for lack of a better title, what ring ideas do you guys have that could justify trading it out on a character?

leaf

Stat multipliers, for one. A huge attack boost but at the cost of your ability to attack becoming RNG dependent.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Salanewt

Basically what leaf said, especially for either attack or unleash rate. Or maybe an extra turn if not that, and if there is no other gear with the turn buff.

A counterstrike rate could also work if it were actually a thing that could be done without mad hacks. Lose the ability to pick a target sometimes, but with the tradeoff that you can occasionally auto-attack and the odds increasing the more enemies there are. Might actually see if it's possible to add and/or fix the equipment effect at some point...

NO, WAIT. LURE RING! Actually no, but yes. No.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#3
Lure Ring? Hm?

How about a Mystic Luna Ring? (Or Luna anything, since Dark is in Dark Seeker.)

Chance that all psynergy attacks use 1/2 their normal PP? (And possibly along with another chance of them using no PP?)
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Misery

Quote from: Rolina on 28, March, 2015, 06:24:57 PM
I had wondered what would be a great slot for that that also allows the curse removing effects of the Cleric's Ring, and Ring just popped in my head. 
Typo? Otherwise I'm really confused by this.

Multiple turns are hard to balance since they're almost like adding a fifth party member, but I think curse (Jamie's suggestion) does the job pretty nicely. A working counterattack (Squirtle's suggestion) also seems like it could be worth it. +99 luck or a high HP recovery might make it worthwile as a defensive item. Or perhaps it could bestow a really powerful psynergy ability.

Somewhat related, I had an idea for a ring that would remove the curse effect, but give you 0 luck and half defense. So two characters would be able to wear cursed without risk of losing turns, but it's much riskier for the second character. Of course, there would have to be some better cursed gear to justify it.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#5
QuoteOtherwise I'm really confused by this.
I think there's just a missing comma?
"that, that"?
Or is that comma not needed? I think it /might/ be needed depending on whether it's like an introductory clause or not.. Ex: You can take the phrase out and get this: "I had wondered what would be a great slot for that, and Ring just popped in my head."

How about a cursed ring that turns your PC into Auto-pilot mode? ( Like give it to Piers, and you got a real robot. :) ) Hm.. Might sound a bit much, though.

---
I do have one strong question, though?

Have we documented the Curse's effect of stunning yet?
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Salanewt

#6
I think there's a curse check near the sleep/stun/1-turn stun, around #08123990, but it doesn't look like there is any specific info there at the moment...

It looks pretty simple though.

16-bit RNG, from x0000-xFFFF, AND 3. If the end value is equal to 0 (out of 0-3), then you can move; otherwise, you're bound and cannot move.

So unless I'm horribly mistaken, you only have a 25% chance to move while wearing cursed gear. It would be incredibly easy to change the odds though. Like, "change 1-3 short instructions" easy. Never really thought about just how bad cursed gear is in general.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Rolina

#7
Quote from: Misery on 28, March, 2015, 09:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rolina on 28, March, 2015, 06:24:57 PM
I had wondered what would be a great slot for that that also allows the curse removing effects of the Cleric's Ring, and Ring just popped in my head.
Typo? Otherwise I'm really confused by this.

Multiple turns are hard to balance since they're almost like adding a fifth party member, but I think curse (Jamie's suggestion) does the job pretty nicely. A working counterattack (Squirtle's suggestion) also seems like it could be worth it. +99 luck or a high HP recovery might make it worthwile as a defensive item. Or perhaps it could bestow a really powerful psynergy ability.

Somewhat related, I had an idea for a ring that would remove the curse effect, but give you 0 luck and half defense. So two characters would be able to wear cursed without risk of losing turns, but it's much riskier for the second character. Of course, there would have to be some better cursed gear to justify it.
Actually, I was speaking of Jamie's hack, where he just made the cleric's ring have a super high luck boost instead so as to justify giving a cursed armor +1 turns.  That plus clerics ring as broken as hell, but that plus being susceptible to cursed effects isn't as much, since you can have from 0-2 attacks each turn.  Check the c-box for more info.

@Squirtle:  Other way around, isn't it?  It's only a 25% chance of being stunned, iirc.

Salanewt

Whoops, you're right. Misread "branch if not equal" as the complete opposite. Been browsing the animation stuff.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Ah. so it's 25%... *Checks my wikia--the Curse section was labeled, but it said nothing about Curse Chance (25%)... Thanks!
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Aile~♥

Quote from: Misery on 28, March, 2015, 09:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rolina on 28, March, 2015, 06:24:57 PM
I had wondered what would be a great slot for that that also allows the curse removing effects of the Cleric's Ring, and Ring just popped in my head. 
Typo? Otherwise I'm really confused by this.

Multiple turns are hard to balance since they're almost like adding a fifth party member, but I think curse (Jamie's suggestion) does the job pretty nicely. A working counterattack (Squirtle's suggestion) also seems like it could be worth it. +99 luck or a high HP recovery might make it worthwile as a defensive item. Or perhaps it could bestow a really powerful psynergy ability.

Somewhat related, I had an idea for a ring that would remove the curse effect, but give you 0 luck and half defense. So two characters would be able to wear cursed without risk of losing turns, but it's much riskier for the second character. Of course, there would have to be some better cursed gear to justify it.

Rolina was wondering what to do if you wanted to keep the Cleric's Ring's curse-nullifying ability. Obviously, you can't put Curse+multiple turns on an armour if the Cleric's Ring retains that trait. So she asked herself "if you want to keep the original Cleric's Ring, what equipment slot can you put powerful effects like that on?" And of course, the easy answer is ring, since you wouldn't be able to wear the Cleric's Ring in tandem.

As for what I actually did in my hack:

Stealth Armour is now the only cursed item. It retains its elemental weakness along with the curse, but grants +1 Turn.

Most weapons and armour that used to be cursed now cause large Luck penalties.

Weapons that used to be cursed frequently have unleashes that are detrimental rather than beneficial, or are at the very least highly unreliable.
• For example, the Wicked Mace has been renamed to the Unlucky Mace. It has a 20% chance to unleash Foul Roulette. Foul Roulette is an attack with a flat 90% chance to do absolutely nothing... but when it does work, it's a 7.7x physical multiplier. I'd originally wanted its activation chance to be inversely proportional to the target's Luck — the higher the target's resistance to status effects, the higher the chance that it smacks them upside the face — but I couldn't do that because the effect I used to cause it to "do nothing" needs to not be Luck-dependent in order to balance more important things.
• Muramasa, in keeping with the weapon's lore, loves bloodshed and doesn't particularly care whose blood it is. On top of decreasing the wielder's Luck, it also increases the random encounter rate. On a regular attack, it has a 25% chance to instead boost the target's Attack by 25% without dealing any damage to them.
• The worst offender in the entire game is the Darksword. On a regular attack, it has a 15% chance to instead fully restore the target's HP and cause the wielder to lose HP equal to half the amount restored.

The counter to this is the Cleric's Ring. The Cleric's Ring not only provides a massive Luck increase, it also sets the wearer's Unleash Rate to 0. (Unfortunately, this sets their critical rate to the minimum possible, but there's no way around that as far as I know.)
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]