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Author Topic: Animation List Overhaul Announcement (GS2 patch incoming)  (Read 5673 times)
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Rolina
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2015, 03:15:46 AM »

Well, if the data has a specific location it needs to be in for each animation, and each component of the animations has a specific batch of code, then we'd have to have an animation editor tab.  You'd have to pick each animation slot, state which character action type, which animation style, which palette (if valid), and a toggle for if a djinn pops up. 

Sure, you could do this manually, but... the point of the editor was to provide some easy to use tools to work with.  I mean, you could technically do assembly for the whole freaking game if you wanted, after all.  The fact that it's not there yet is what drove most people away from the project.
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2015, 03:44:42 AM »

I suppose so, although the only thing that would be 100% consistent are animation slots/IDs. Mind clarifying what you mean by both "action type" and "animation style" though? As for the djinni toggle, that's already a thing if you use Teawater/Fox' alpha map editor version. It still won't come up unless the animation is compatible with it in the first place, but it's there.

Makes enough sense. I don't really have the knowledge to pull it off though...


Oh, and I have slightly restructured the 101's first palette blend code so it works really similarly to the Simple Success Rates patch. Frees up some room for more palette swaps; have a dedicated pointer list with enough space for about 18 more swaps (24 total, but I might make it 30 or so), and the empty area that comes after the new byte table should be enough room to implement them all. I figure I can toy around with it a bit and then pick about 6-8 new ones to be included with this patch, which would leave some room for people to add their own if they wish. I'm thinking one or two greens, pink, orange... some of the same options that I posted before with one or two new ones.

Going to do the same with the other portion of palette blending in a bit, although likely with fewer empty pointers.
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2015, 04:40:20 AM »

Action type:

Character casting animation
Character attacking animation
Character jumps and attacks
Character starts casting animation, shifts to attack animation
etc

Animation style:

Quake
Growth
Fire
Volcano
etc


Basically, Action Type is what the character's animation is.  Animation style is what the spell's animation is.
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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2015, 05:18:43 AM »

Ah, I see. What you define as action type varies a fair bit though; the character casting animation is basically what Fox and I call ability type (includes standard attack, tri-bubble, Gaia party fade, Mold/Meld, etc.) and can already be done with the alpha map editor release, but that other stuff seems sensible enough. Still a little tricky, but nowhere near as much as making a full assembly editor would be. Don't have the knowledge/skill in other programming languages to attempt that myself though.


Well anyway, tiny update. Decided to go ahead and edit the palette blend code for the 101 Unleashes. There are 24 total for the first part and I have filled every entry, which took forever because it seems like the majority of the palettes are either the same as other ones or kind of ugly when used this way (and I swear that about 80% of the decent ones are very minor deviations from the standard yellow/blue/red/purple set, which explains why there are so many animations that just use these palettes).
  - 00-05 = buff yellow/gold/blue/red/purple/grey (original set).
  - 06-0F = turquoise/pink/lime/ash/orange/fire/aquamarine/violet/sand/indigo
  - 10-17 = navy/camo/hot pink/silver/lava/green/white/azure

Haven't gotten to the other portion yet, but that will come in time.

Edit: About time I show an example image. This is Echo, with the lime palette applied to it instead of the standard gold/Venus palette.



I bet something like this could look pretty cool for Sap...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 05:21:51 AM by Lord Squirtle » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2015, 04:59:56 AM »

Edit: Uploaded! Everything anyone needs to know is included in the download post, but I'll be up front about the one downside; it will likely take a fair amount of time to reassign animations to the majority of the game's abilities, since every animation past animation 283 has been moved to an earlier point in the list and many earlier ones have either been relocated or outright removed (there were so many duplicates, wow). Enjoy.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 12:12:15 AM by Lord Squirtle » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2015, 12:21:10 PM »

Wow.  Goodspeed with the project then.  I assume we can look forward to incremental updates as you get section by section done?
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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2015, 03:08:58 PM »

Hard to say. I don't know if I want to do this for a while, but I like the idea of restructuring certain animations in a similar way to how I handled the 101 Unleashes change. For example, changing the base healing function so you can assign particle graphic and palette to each individual animation and maybe even add more variants. I would probably consider this for the base healing, revive, buff, and debuff animations. Not sure yet, I need to take a little break from animation stuff for a bit before I make up my mind.

I'm not planning to reassign animations to abilities at all though, and I have a couple reasons for that:
1) Such a change would largely benefit unmodified ROMs and screw with edited abilities in modified ones. Users of hacked ROMs would likely still have to go through it and make their own changes again; especially if they want to use any of the new unused/fixed animations that have been added (i.e. Purple Blast/Nova).
2) Pain in the butt. I've been doing this for Disco Sun and it took me a few hours to even reach the 2/3 mark. The positive side is I only have to do a mass edit like this once, which is likely true for other people as well.

Also, for those who missed the chatbox announcement, I released a slight bug fix for some of the slash variants and corrected the changelog. I recommend reinstalling it if you have not already done so.
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« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2015, 05:47:25 PM »

Having a baseline patch supplemental to the Animation List Overhaul patch would be useful though. If you've already modified things then obviously you're going to have to do it manually, but it would still be useful for people starting a new hack to have the ability to fix the base game abilities via a secondary patch. Especially since your notes in the OP don't list all of the exact abilities that each animation goes with.
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« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2015, 06:42:35 PM »

That's certainly true, but at the same time it's a lot of work for me to do when I could be working on other patches. Like this one tiny patch that changes how a few ability effects work. I haven't ruled it out entirely though, it's just not on my list of priorities right now.

Also, a little oversight; I didn't realize that Claw Slash (I think was the name) tiers, so I accidentally cut out a couple options; i.e. Vital Moon. Also, things like Double Fang and the like aren't fully compatible with multiplying ability effects. I'll work on an update that remedies these issues over the weekend, but I'm not going to add a lot of "multiplier compatible" animations unless they were used in that manner in an unmodified game.


Edit: Okay, updated to add an animation or two. The original Double Fang and Twin Beaks variants aren't affected by the multiplier in the original, but there are pretty close alternatives in the last unused bite and Mad Zephyr; decided to not add copies back in just for those two. What I did add are the following:

38 - Jupiter Revive (uses argument 3, and I think it may even be compatible with djinni effects)
218 - Claw Slash (tiers)

I recommend that whoever has installed this do so again. Sorry for the inconvenience!
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 02:49:53 PM by Lord Squirtle » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2015, 01:34:25 AM »

So, how do you actually get at the original 101 unleashes? What animation IDs are they all set to, if any? I ask because I kinda still want to get at them without having to do too much assembly.

Edit: Actually, are they still in the same places they were, as animation whatever.4? Yes.

Edit 2: Is reversed camera still 128+normal argument? Yes.

Edit 3: To avoid the problem with Double Fang using Poisonous Bite's animation when it does double damage, you could duplicate it as argument 1 of animation 145, which is that unused Frost Bite thingy. As for Twin Beaks, if the multiplier thingy works the way I think it does, there won't be a problem as long as there's nothing on 141.4.

Edit 4: Tier 3 Blast Breath is so completely unnecessary holy arceus hahaha.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 04:38:42 PM by JamietheFlameUser » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2015, 05:27:40 PM »

Yeah, I think Twin Beaks is fine but not Double Fang. The Frost Bite thing is actually Double Fang too I think. (Nope). I may make a standalone patch for it later, but I'd rather wait to see if there are any others like that I missed... or if you/anyone else can suggest other minor additions as well. Changing casting/attack animations (not ability type), jump heights, and even chaining animations should be possible. As Jamie said, Frost Bite is pretty similar to Double Fang and can double for it if necessary.

As for the crossed out stuff, that's exactly it.

Also not 100% sure because I think it was already positioned weird before the patch, but I may have screwed up Blast/Nova's positioning. I can make a fix later if I did.


Re: Edit 4: Lol, yup! I mostly just included it for fun. There may be a couple others like that if I recall correctly.


For Severe Blow (according to the post on the download page), it's also possible I could have messed up its pointer or something. Should be a super easy fix if that happens to be the case.

Edit: Um, there may be something on 141.4. Been almost a month since I checked though.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 05:56:41 PM by Lord Squirtle » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2015, 03:52:43 AM »

Chaining animations could be a thing? That opens up so many possibilities!
Mighty Press followed by Fume seems like it would have potential; user leaps at the foe and blows them up, then releases a Fume to intercept them mid-fall.
Another fun idea would be Serpent Fume immediately followed by Agatio's Rising Dragon.
Another one that might look neat would be something like Mighty Press or Death Plunge, immediately followed by tier 1 Blast Breath; user launches foe into the air, then lasers them on the way down. Death Plunge might even make the laser appear to start from the right location if it starts just as the user bounces away after Death Plunge.
Also, 57.1 followed by 57.3. Launch the foe into the air with a diagonal upward strike, then leap after them for a follow-up slash.

Oh, by the way: Both variants of animation 152 (152.0 — Char and 152.1 — Light Fire) soft-lock the game when targeting multiple foes, specifically after the first foe takes damage when you try to scroll the text to the amount of damage the second foe took. I don't remember if animation 146.1 — Blue Fire also has the same issue, but it might. Is there a workable fix for this?

Ice Breath, Chill Breath, Raging Flood, and Djinn Storm animations don't behave properly when targeting multiple foes. The left-most target flinches and shows damage effects/knockback as they should, but the other targets don't flinch until the text comes up indicating the amount of damage they took, and they don't show knockback or other damage effects (such as temporary palette changes caused by some fire or ice moves). This was an issue even in the base game, and it looks really clunky.

Also, how do you get Meld to work properly? Was its animation a direct duplicate of Mold's animation in the base game, so you just use 215.0?

Speaking of Meld, is there any way to make other abilities behave similarly, perhaps using animations other than a standard attack? (For example, making two characters both Fume a target simultaneously, or both leap on a target with an epic explosion using animation 165.4.)

Are there other animations like that Tiamat variant you named "Vietnam" (animation 174)? That is, summon animations that have most/all of the GFX but completely lack the actual summon sprite? If there's one like that for Nereid, that would be really cool.

Is there a way to make animations that are normally designed to hit only one target (such as Vorpal Slash) appear to strike the central target rather than the left-most target? It wouldn't be a perfect fix, but it would make using those animations for multi-target moves look a little less clunky.

If chaining animations is a thing, any way to remove the debuff GFX from animations like Lunar Slash, Meltdown, Shred, Hurricane (unleash), etc.? Or possibly even automate the debuff GFX on those animations to automatically match any debuff the ability applies? (Shattering purple shield for Resistance debuffs, shattering red shield for Defence debuffs, shattering red sword for Attack debuffs, or nothing at all if the move doesn't have a debuff secondary effect.)
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« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2015, 09:24:41 PM »

Chaining animations: I think so. I don't know how that would look with flinching/damage animations, but I imagine it would be pretty easy to do because some animations (like Severe Blow or the vanilla Cutting Edge) use a little code to change certain other things before playing the actual animation. I imagine one could do something similar and just add a delay between the two animations.

Serpent -> Rising Dragon: Woah, good idea! I'll see if I can test that combination later, I bet that would look really cool. Have to help my grandmother with a couple things first though.

Soft-lock: Damn, lol. I have no idea why that would happen for those two specifically. I can try testing it later, as I don't recall noticing anything like that happening but also can't recall actually testing for multiple targets. I thought I tested the blue fire one and found it to work properly, but I forget for sure.

Odd targeting: Yeah, some animations work differently in that regard than others. The Slash animations are an example where the animation is repeated for every target (pretty sure Ice Breath and Chill Breath are both related to Slash, but not all sibling animations will work the same way), but then you have other animations that either hit every target at the same time and others that only affect a single target visually. Not necessarily sure what it would take to change that for some of them. Raging Flood works the same way as Poison Flow, which I think is a single-target family for the most part, and Djinn Storm may also be the same.

Meld: It was literally the same pointer, yeah. How it normally works is there is a special ability type/effect that lets Meld or Mold do it's thing (it's a part of the same table that makes the screen go dark when you use Gaia, among other things). I can't remember 100% how they are differentiated from one another after that, but it may be ability ID number.

Tiamat: Not that I can remember. I only really recall that and Meteor having other "relatives" in the code, and Meteor's sibling was just a purple palette swap used by Fusion Dragon.

Central targeting: I have no idea, but I imagine for some of them it would be a matter of changing how the targeting/coordinates work. It would be kind of like how Blast or Volcano work I think. I haven't really looked into targeting stuff yet though.

Debuff GFX: I'm sure it would be relatively simply to remove them from some animations (some easier than others), and chaining them should also be pretty simple of my tests later prove that to be the case, but automatically having certain animations selected/added could be a tad trickier and/or longer (as in taking up more code) than just manually adding each individual one or changing them when the need arises.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 09:30:25 PM by Lord Squirtle » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2015, 10:38:54 PM »

Oddly enough, Poison Flow actually appears to work just fine when targeting multiple foes, even though Raging Flood is, from what I recall, uncooperative. (Interestingly, that unused "combination wave" that looks like a merge of Dreamtide and Watery Grave works just fine targeting multiple foes.) Or at least, the unused Smog Flow looks fine when targeting multiple foes. All the enemies struck are launched into the air as the gust reaches them.

Just removing debuff GFX from things like Lunar Slash, Meltdown, Shred, and maybe even Heat Kiss would already be quite helpful if animation chaining is going to be a thing. The GFX look, to be blunt, tacky.
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« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2015, 11:49:32 PM »

Huh. Well, there could be exceptions in place that change how their targeting works. Blaze Rush is a different example of an animation that, while related to it, doesn't target each/any enemy like Slash does.

As for the GFX, I wholly agree that they look tacky. I think I'll consider doing it as a separate patch though; this one is more or less supposed to add animations that already exist without modifying them extensively, with a couple exceptions.

On that note though, I just thought of a way for the buff animations to be applied directly after the normal animation, rather than by chaining them. It would be easier to just create new ability types based on Megaera and Iris and tweak how the targeting works. Basically, those two summons have their standard abilities and then activate a second one (Impact in Megaera's case and Aurora Field for Iris) with both animation and effect. I imagine it would be pretty easy to create some extra types that cast debuff abilities on the selected targets, so that the debuff animations and effects play right after the normal effect. May be able to take it a step further and create extra versions with "success rates" coded into them. The only downside to this is the lack of editor support for additional types, but it would be super easy to set it through hex editing.
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Today at 12:18:56 PM
Fox: Welcome back!
Today at 09:12:43 AM
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Yesterday at 02:29:26 AM
Fox: That moment when you realize that there is a lot of chatting going on on Discord, that there is no point in trying to keep up. :P  Hm....
August 16, 2017, 04:50:22 AM
Fox: (Then again, just because posting is disabled, doesn't necessarily mean the buttons would be removed as well.)
August 16, 2017, 04:48:55 AM
Fox: (I mean, buttons I would expect to be similar to that.... rather than those specifically since I recall posting there to be disabled.)
August 16, 2017, 04:33:02 AM
Fox: Yeah... I like to think of it as a page loaded with ads. And it's not just the forum home page either... check the sub-forums/topics themselves. == New Topic/Reply/etc. buttons were affected.
August 15, 2017, 07:04:30 PM
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August 15, 2017, 06:33:02 PM
Foxhttp://z9.invisionfree.com/Golden_Sun_Hacking/index.php? == Hahaha! GSHC Classic looks funny now that Photobucket killed the images. :P Anyway, how is everyone doing today?
August 14, 2017, 07:12:02 PM
Salanewt: So yeah, I'm typing up a non-academic essay on why GS2 was rushed; expect that sometime soon!
August 07, 2017, 05:53:11 AM
Fox: But anyway, such a hack mod is simply an idea, and I do not have any current plans to work on it at this time, so.....
August 07, 2017, 05:51:46 AM
Fox: Okay, cool. I think my idea works best without an ability to swap PCs (OR to just simply make that use it the PC's turn.) Hmmm... And with that, I question if a turn list is even needed with my approach. (Outside of maybe 1 entry, if that shortens the modifications.)
August 07, 2017, 05:13:26 AM
Salanewt: To be honest I've been thinking of expanding the battle turn section and also adding code for PCs to have more than two turns in the AI overhaul, but I probably won't allow anyone to have more than four.
August 06, 2017, 12:22:17 AM
Fox: Oh, and if that approach was taken = Would like to also have it so you select the spell to use when it is actually your turn rather than at round start.
August 06, 2017, 12:12:37 AM
Fox: Would take a lot of balancing, but I can see an adept being very slow, and yet very powerful.
August 06, 2017, 12:06:11 AM
Fox: And bosses can have an Agility that is above half of the maximum possible Agility. Mwahaha.
August 06, 2017, 12:04:14 AM
Fox: Hmm... What if Agility could be recodded to allow for multiple turns per round? Obvious, calculations could be made in a way that depending on your Agility, you could like get a different number of turns each round. (eg. 1 turn this round, 2 the next, 1 turn again.) Obviously, To ensure 2 turns all the time, you should have at least double the opponent's agility,.... erm...something. So... you/or enmy could be so fast, the opponent can't even make a move, unless turns are capped.
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Fox: ( That keeps search engines from indexing them... :) )
August 05, 2017, 08:45:44 PM
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