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Author Topic: Is there anything you generally dislike about any GS game?  (Read 8869 times)
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« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2015, 01:26:12 PM »

Oh, I think Base damage should definitely have influence from a Casting and Warding stat, but not a full influence - I currently like a 1/6 influence from the stats.  Enough to grow and to let mages stand out, but also enough to give warriors purpose behind using them.

@Healing stat:  No?  Healing's actually OP in GS. The way it's handled right now is pretty good, I think.  Who does and doesn't get healing is a matter of dev philosophy at this point, so all you really have to do is better balance the cost to power ratio.
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« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2015, 04:42:32 PM »

Healing is op in base GS due to its high base power coupled with being EXTREMELY undercosted. after some much needed balancing, the healing stat would simply be used to make some classes better than others at it or even to make it scale with class "rank" itself.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 04:51:59 PM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2015, 07:10:56 PM »

@Healing stat:  No?  Healing's actually OP in GS. The way it's handled right now is pretty good, I think.  Who does and doesn't get healing is a matter of dev philosophy at this point, so all you really have to do is better balance the cost to power ratio.

On that note:
— Flat value healing. The Tales series sans Zestiria does healing the best out of any RPG I've played, and it's the only series I've run into that does all healing that way. While in Golden Sun strictly percent-based healing has the problem of ignoring the Elemental Power stat, that could easily be factored in anyway. Calculate the amount healed based on percent of target's max HP, then multiply by (Elemental Power/100) as normal. (Though you get effectively the same result by multiplying the percentage by (epower/100) and then taking that percent of the target's max HP. For example, with the usual base 104 EPower in primary element, 30% x (104/100) = 31.2%.) Though perhaps something like ((EPower + 100)/200) might work better for the sake of balance.
(That would be a really cool patch to have, by the way. Replace the current "restore X% of HP" effects with one that actually uses the ability's power value to determine the amount healed, as (base power/10)%, and factors in elemental power with heal% * ((epower + 100)/200). This would be even cooler if it diminished over area as the healing/base damage formulae normally do.)

In fact, the flat-value healing is an even bigger issue in GS's engine due to the lack of dedicated Psy Attack/Psy Defence stats, since that means that tanking base damage vs. tanking physical is based on max HP relative to Defence.
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« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2015, 12:40:00 AM »

If nothing else, you can do what Disgaea does and tie it to the spell defense stat - Warding by my terminology.  Without thorough testing though, I don't really see the point of applying this to healing.  For all I know it could be necessary, but for now I'll stick with my adjustments.
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« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2015, 07:28:47 PM »

— GS1's intro scene, where the Boulder falls and strikes Vale. The whole scenario is badly executed, and that has a lot to do with the large Psynergy Stone at the centre of the plaza.

• First change: Vale does not have a large, permanent Psynergy Stone in the plaza.
• Second change: Even if an individual possesses the potential to develop Psynergy use, if that potential is entirely untapped (such as in the case of a very young Adept) then that individual will not absorb the smaller Psynergy Stones on contact.
• Third change: The people of Vale (or Adepts in general) have developed tools to allow Adepts to transport small Psynergy Stones without absorbing them. This would probably take the form of specialized containers and a lift system of some sort to pick them up with, quite possibly just a seesaw-like lever device that can be easily transported, accompanied by a large board used to push Psynergy Stones onto the lever so they can be deposited into the containers.
• Fourth change: Very minor eruptions of Mount Aleph are common. There's not really much ceremony to them: there's a tiny amount of lava flow and the volcano spits Psynergy Stones all around the immediate area.
• Fifth change: The plaza contains a storehouse where Psynergy Stones the volcano spits out are stored, along with the equipment used to collect them.

Suddenly, a lot of things are able to make sense. Dora sends an unnamed NPC to go to the plaza and bring back Psynergy Stones for the rest of them so they can save Felix. She sends Isaac in the same general direction, telling him to leave the village and get to safety. As in the original scenario, Isaac encounters Garet along the way. Upon arriving in the plaza, Isaac and Garet overhear a conversation between the unnamed NPC and the mayor in which it is revealed that one of the many smaller boulders crashed into the Psynergy Stone storehouse and wrecked the transportation equipment. The unnamed NPC then notices Isaac and Garet and requests that they carry some Psynergy Stones back to Felix's family, since the pair haven't tapped into their Psynergy potential yet and thus can carry Psynergy Stones without absorbing them. The NPC then heads into the storehouse to replenish his own Psynergy with one of the stones, then immediately runs off to the north again. Isaac and Garet each grab a Psynergy Stone, and the player is left to take them back to Dora and co.. Scenario proceeds basically as normal from there. (Though a full-village camera pan after the boulder falls to show the full scope of the devastation might be in order.)
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« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2015, 09:56:20 PM »

Honestly, I would prefer a text intro to deal with all the past stuff, but I can definitely agree with your fan prologue being better than what was actually in the game. And also the way you resolved some of the other issues with the plot as well.

Quote
Dora sends an unnamed NPC to go to the plaza and bring back Psynergy Stones for the rest of them so they can save Felix.

Although in this instance, Dora sending Jenna out would probably be better than some random NPC. She could even be attacked and/or halted by some monster, which would explain why she never returned in that scenario.


Also, everything that happens with Tret and the purple-haired chick may be a tad harder to explain unless you trim those parts of the story a bit. It would probably make the plot better as a whole if everything could be trimmed down a bit, but still.
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« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2015, 10:11:48 PM »

Um... I don't know about young kids not being able to absorb them... Perhaps it'd be better to say that the ability to absorb is slow enough to bring them...
They might not have any learned abilities or any class, but they do have a small amount of PP, right?

Edit: Oh, and then there's Eoleo.... forget how old he was.  (I assume he used psynergy at one point? But I forget.)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 10:24:49 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2015, 10:25:04 PM »

Honestly, I would prefer a text intro to deal with all the past stuff, but I can definitely agree with your fan prologue being better than what was actually in the game. And also the way you resolved some of the other issues with the plot as well.

Quote
Dora sends an unnamed NPC to go to the plaza and bring back Psynergy Stones for the rest of them so they can save Felix.

Although in this instance, Dora sending Jenna out would probably be better than some random NPC. She could even be attacked and/or halted by some monster, which would explain why she never returned in that scenario.


Also, everything that happens with Tret and the purple-haired chick may be a tad harder to explain unless you trim those parts of the story a bit. It would probably make the plot better as a whole if everything could be trimmed down a bit, but still.


Dora sending an unnamed NPC (the same one who, in the original prologue, is already at the plaza Psynergy Stone when Isaac gets there) works better because Jenna wouldn't be sent to retrieve Psynergy Stones for the same reason Isaac wouldn't be: she's just a kid. Having Jenna be told to go with Isaac and get out of the village would work as well, though, since it results in the same scenario but with one more kid to carry Psynergy Stones and explains why Jenna's still in the village rather than being rescued and held hostage post-boulder impact as with her parents.

Forgot to add an "under ordinary circumstances" to my second point regarding not-yet-Adepts not absorbing Psynergy Stones. In this case, being hit on the head by a Psynergy Stone traveling at a high enough velocity to shatter on impact even without being absorbed would not be "ordinary circumstances".

Um... I don't know about young kids not being able to absorb them... Perhaps it'd be better to say that the ability to absorb is slow enough to bring them...
They might not have any learned abilities or any class, but they do have a small amount of PP, right?
That's pretty much what I was getting at. Mostly that the rate at which they absorb them is super low; so low as to be basically nonexistent with essentially no development of Psynergy ability or training.
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« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2015, 10:45:22 PM »

Okay, then... Although I sort of doubt "super low" would be correct enough...(?)


@
Quote
Forgot to add an "under ordinary circumstances" to my second point regarding not-yet-Adepts not absorbing Psynergy Stones. In this case, being hit on the head by a Psynergy Stone traveling at a high enough velocity to shatter on impact even without being absorbed would not be "ordinary circumstances"
.... would this be talking about Eoleo?
A  moment ago I was thinking about Eoleo.. (http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Eoleo)
Basically, he's a toddler, and when he was hit by a Psynergy Stone, it resulted in him.... well... he ended up getting adept powers... (Telekinesis)
Just to point out just how powerful Psynergy Stones are... even for just a toddler!

I am not sure what to say about speed of psynergy stones, or what evidence there might be to support any theories... Aside from the idea that Psynergy Stones seem to have an effect on everyone. (Maybe I should check the werewolves out.)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 10:53:25 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2015, 11:05:28 PM »

I'm not suggesting it works perfectly with canon as-is, but then canon doesn't really work perfectly with itself so not much is different there.

Regardless of whether or not Psynergy Stones affect everyone, the idea is that only someone or something with trained (or otherwise "unlocked") Psynergy will absorb all the energy from them (thus causing them to destabilize and shatter) with mere physical contact.
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« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2015, 11:18:29 PM »

Yeah.... There are likely a bunch of things where one canon event might contradict another....

Only being able to fully absorb if you have unlocked abilities.... possibly....
However, I also think that I like the idea of multiple tiers of Psynergy Stones.... some of which you can absorb faster than others. (But ofcourse, that's probably based on stone size.) All the in-game ones that you absorb seem to be nearly the same size?
This means that you can have Psy Stones that .... say fills your PP 50%, and not 100%, etc.

(Max PP / 2) + cur PP
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 11:39:43 PM by Fox » Logged

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