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Author Topic: Some idea I had  (Read 1669 times)
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Luna_blade
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« on: August 17, 2016, 11:20:25 AM »

So yeah. I was thinking about emulators ROM's and stuff.
AFAIK there are no roms converted to a PC executable file.
Why not? It does take some time to translate all ROM commands to another Programming language, but so does making an emulator.
The big difference is that the graphics part needs to be designed specially and that you only work on one ROM.
But the advantage is that you can edit the game a lot easier and it would certainly run faster.

Is it even possible to convert a ROM?
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Fox
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2016, 01:17:41 PM »

It may be possible, but it is likely difficult? (Esp. if 100% automated.)

@100%: I think one of the biggest challenges to automating the process might be knowing what's code and what is not? (One example is to imagine a pointer table of functions (Not all functions, just a group of them.)... and then an index that grabs a pointer... where the index doesn't have a cap.(Superstar Saga and Golden Sun do have pointer tables to a group of functions, for example.)

Not sure how much easier it would be to edit if you still have to manually put in all the names for functions/variables/etc. though. And with compiler optimizations, the flow may not look right either? Etc. (Depends on if said game has any of that info or not, likely not... if we're talking about things like GBA.)

But I suppose another question is: Is it worth it? When you could rewrite the whole thing anyway... in which it'd be even easier to read.)


---
Oh, and if I recall correctly... Making a GBA emulator is pretty easy in comparison to a DS or 3DS emulator... which is harder due to more stuff needing to be coded.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 05:17:46 PM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...
Did you know? In English, you are suppose to capitalize the languages. (e.g. English is a proper noun.) Subjects like math, science, history can be left lower-cased unless they are a title. (Kind of like how you can say either "my mom" or "Mom" in "I went with (X) to the store.", except that I don't think languages are ever lower-cased in English.) In Spanish, both subjects and languages are left lower-cased. (I put this here because I've noticed people make this mistake quite often. And am curious if they know about this, and whether they use their way because they believe this grammar usage should have never been a thing?

Remember kids! In getting a job, it's not about what you know, it's about WHO you know! So start making friends with the people that work where you want to work. :) (Friend of a friend and volunteering count too, so keep that in mind.)[/si
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leaf
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2016, 10:16:26 PM »

This doesn't sound terribly practical. It's mostly a semantic difference anyway. If you turn it into an executable, you're essentially making an emulator that can only run that one game. There's no real advantage to it.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Fox
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2016, 01:19:22 AM »

I suppose I agree with you... (in a way)... since well... Even if we did do such a conversion to allow for additional space in WRAM/IRAM/VRAM/etc... (and other features like clicking the screen.), we could still do that with the emulator instead. (But then only Homebrew/hacks would use whatever additions were added.)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 01:23:35 AM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...
Did you know? In English, you are suppose to capitalize the languages. (e.g. English is a proper noun.) Subjects like math, science, history can be left lower-cased unless they are a title. (Kind of like how you can say either "my mom" or "Mom" in "I went with (X) to the store.", except that I don't think languages are ever lower-cased in English.) In Spanish, both subjects and languages are left lower-cased. (I put this here because I've noticed people make this mistake quite often. And am curious if they know about this, and whether they use their way because they believe this grammar usage should have never been a thing?

Remember kids! In getting a job, it's not about what you know, it's about WHO you know! So start making friends with the people that work where you want to work. :) (Friend of a friend and volunteering count too, so keep that in mind.)[/si
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Luna_blade
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2016, 04:56:40 AM »

Quote from: fox
It may be possible, but it is likely difficult? (Esp. if 100% automated.)

@100%: I think one of the biggest challenges to automating the process might be knowing what's code and what is not? (One example is to imagine a pointer table of functions (Not all functions, just a group of them.)... and then an index that grabs a pointer... where the index doesn't have a cap.(Superstar Saga and Golden Sun do have pointer tables to a group of functions, for example.)

Not sure how much easier it would be to edit if you still have to manually put in all the names for functions/variables/etc. though. And with compiler optimizations, the flow may not look right either? Etc. (Depends on if said game has any of that info or not, likely not... if we're talking about things like GBA.)

But I suppose another question is: Is it worth it? When you could rewrite the whole thing anyway... in which it'd be even easier to read).
So if I understand correctly, emulators put the ROM in the RAM (and some even don't) but only convert the commands while executing?
Quote from: fox
Oh, and if I recall correctly... Making a GBA emulator is pretty easy in comparison to a DS or 3DS emulator... which is harder due to more stuff needing to be coded.
I can understand that.
Quote from: leaf
This doesn't sound terribly practical. It's mostly a semantic difference anyway. If you turn it into an executable, you're essentially making an emulator that can only run that one game. There's no real advantage to it.
Well okay, but wouldn't it go faster because there is no overhead from the emulator?
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leaf
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2016, 06:46:05 AM »

Run... faster...? Are you out of your mind? Suppose for a moment that it actually did run faster. What possible benefit could you gain from that? It's already more than possible to play games at 1600% speed in VBA, which is already fast enough to be impossible to accurately play (as a human, that is; the game still emulates correctly). As it is, games already need a frame limiter just to prevent them from going at out of control high speeds due to the processing power of modern computers.

And you still seem to be missing the point that in order to play a game on PC that was built for a different set of hardware, you still need some form of emulation to act as the go-between. Games are optimized for the systems they're built for. This is especially true for old gameboy titles, which weren't made to be portable to other systems. The commands work at a very low level, going so far as to tell the system what registers to use to do something. It's not like we have C++ code or something that we can just compile and run on a PC; we're stuck with already-compiled code that's made to run on a specific set of hardware. Emulators work by essentially tricking the ROM into thinking it's working on the actual hardware, and then intercepting its outputs to convert them into a more PC-friendly state. It's not as simple as just telling it to output its display to a computer monitor instead of the gameboy screen, or changing a few variables to let it receive input from a keyboard. Without access to the source code, that's nontrivial even for modern games, which are specifically built to be cross-platform.

Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
View Profile
Fox
Fox McCloud, the Hacking Doctor
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2016, 07:22:32 AM »

Quote
So if I understand correctly, emulators put the ROM in the RAM (and some even don't) but only convert the commands while executing?
Something like that. (Although, the real hardware likely reads straight off the cartridge (GBA has it memory mapped) and/or loads files at a time (like the DS)....)

"Faster" in the sense of human perception for VBA is likely pointless... But perhaps it was a matter of wrong word choice? Like say... how about more efficient? Can never get enough of savings from power consumption/ battery life, can you? (But the effort on work for too little of gains is probably not worth the time... esp. when you consider Moore's Law is already halving the size of the transistors each couple years... or something like that-ish. There are articles on the internet that say that may be coming close to an end, though.... But I'm sure the work on improvements when including tech as a whole, is far from over.) Also, things like solar panels that get power from the sun, thus making electricity potentially money-free in the long run... may make the savings seem nearly pointless. (Eventually./Hopefully.)

I can practically imagine a day in the future... when internet may be free. (Like internet.org)... and also, how computers could possibly be mainly display/sound devices... (With some RAM, obviously, etc.)  where the processor stuff happens over the internet/cloud... and we all know how fast Google servers are, right?  Didn't Google have some cheap Chromebook like that, forget now.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 07:50:42 AM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...
Did you know? In English, you are suppose to capitalize the languages. (e.g. English is a proper noun.) Subjects like math, science, history can be left lower-cased unless they are a title. (Kind of like how you can say either "my mom" or "Mom" in "I went with (X) to the store.", except that I don't think languages are ever lower-cased in English.) In Spanish, both subjects and languages are left lower-cased. (I put this here because I've noticed people make this mistake quite often. And am curious if they know about this, and whether they use their way because they believe this grammar usage should have never been a thing?

Remember kids! In getting a job, it's not about what you know, it's about WHO you know! So start making friends with the people that work where you want to work. :) (Friend of a friend and volunteering count too, so keep that in mind.)[/si
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Luna_blade
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2016, 01:24:27 PM »

I see why this doesn't work now.
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Cbox
December 13, 2017, 09:19:38 PM
Fox: Okay, so that Summon Night games adds the fram number to the seed, before generating another seed via mul/add....  (GS1-GS3 never adds the fram number.) ... So um, that makes sense! ;  Summon Night:  ((seed + frame) * 0x343FD + 0x269E3C) >> 0x10 ; Which is also on the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator
December 12, 2017, 11:10:45 PM
Fox: Yes, and there could be contests. Maybe ones where 1st/2nd/3rd place get a cash reward, but eh. Dunno.... Kind of thinking about making a topic about how people got their job, and what was their experience. (e.g. Did they use references of people already working in the job, and various other things.)
December 09, 2017, 04:24:14 AM
Majora: Import old forum posts for reference, perhaps take posts containing important info like documentation away from the old stickied forum post model and make them into their own pages on a site with an in-built search bar. Might help with SEO, too. If nothing else, perhaps whipping them into PDFs and hosting them via Scribd? The possibilities are boundless when it comes to restructuring a site
December 09, 2017, 04:20:02 AM
Majora: Just a nice idea to have even if it doesn't come to fruition. Updating, modernizing, always a good idea. Could probably do something pretty nifty using a good Wordpress theme
December 09, 2017, 04:15:45 AM
Majora: Would be kind of neat to do something like that for GSHC. Could change it up a bit to show all tweets/instagram posts/facebook posts/golden sun subreddit posts all in one sidebar. It would be cool in that it gives the site it's on (and the topic in general) appear more lively and active, which is a plus
December 09, 2017, 04:14:19 AM
Majora: That does sound interesting. One cool thing I've seen some sites use is a sort of unique take on a sidebar option that acts like a social media integration (like, "See GSHC's latest Tweets"). It displays activity from a variety of related sites, such as Reddit, Twitter, Instagram, etc.
December 09, 2017, 12:58:53 AM
Fox: And the way it'd work via code is not that all users would instantly get nicknames the minute you register... but rather, the moment you view a name if it doesn't have a nickname, it gets one. (My Thoughts.)
December 09, 2017, 12:53:55 AM
Fox: (I was thinking that it would be "Name (Nickname)" ... The nickname is what you first known the user as, and you can change that yourself... and the Name is what the user wants to be called... Something like that.
December 09, 2017, 12:47:56 AM
Fox: So like... for starters, one idea I had was to make it so anyone can name anyone... much like how it works on Skype, and you (the namer) would be the only one to see it, and such...
December 09, 2017, 12:45:02 AM
Fox: Would need to be carefully thought out and tested, though.
December 09, 2017, 12:43:02 AM
Fox: I'm thinking I could make it so that name changes can happen whenever... (Without any limit)... Since I believe there's a way to do it with minimum confusion. (I think.) Hmm....
December 09, 2017, 12:31:36 AM
Fox: (I mean an offline version... at least initially.)
December 09, 2017, 12:25:01 AM
Fox: Now that I have thought about it a bit more, would I be right to assume that GSHC would be one of the most interesting websites to administrate, or no? It's sad to see not much going on with it. == I almost want to make a concept website at some point. :D Anyway, how is everyone doing today?
December 06, 2017, 12:12:59 AM
Fox: Like... Start using Github or something... Do like how many of those other projects such as Citra (WIP 3DS Emulator) does. Etc.
December 06, 2017, 12:08:12 AM
Fox: No idea. I just wish OpenGoldenSun would release it as unfinished, but oh well.
December 05, 2017, 06:52:09 AM
MaxiPower: Bummed out that the open golden sun project is dead it seems with no actitivy in close to a year at this point. Is there any hope left in any other projects?
November 27, 2017, 10:25:28 AM
Fox: (When I say research, mainly refering to the data in the game, though checking websites can count to a degree.)
November 27, 2017, 09:52:27 AM
Fox: Maybe. But Dark Dawn is meh, hahah... I still research it, though, because data can be interesting.
November 27, 2017, 05:28:36 AM
Portakin: I'm here! This game is underrated!
November 25, 2017, 08:03:23 PM
Fox: .... and the email listed in that post makes me think we should just make a new rules topic with most of the same information. (So the old ones can be sort o archived.)

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