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Author Topic: Parallel Weyard  (Read 6462 times)
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« on: October 21, 2016, 02:56:24 PM »

Hello
I have been thinking about if there are parallel Weyards and what they would look like.  I also thought about how they would be different to the original 3 games. 

I had some thought about one world.  It is set on the normal game just that Isaac has rescued by Saturos and Menardi instead of Felix.  Vale was another Tolbi and hosted games that only adepts could play and biult ships only adepts could use.  In other words they were Lemuria, Vale and Tolbi combined.  However when the Mt Alpeh boulder fell it destroyed most of the country leaving only a few refugees.  Saturos and Menardi rescued Isaac, but could not save anyone else.  Isaac felt that he should light the lighthouse because of Saturos and Menardi.  The three of them found Ivan and Mia and set of to light the lighthouse.  Then after all 4 lighthouses were lit Isaac moved into Venus lighthouse after clearing the lighthouses of monsters.  He settled down with the left over refugees of Vale.

I hope you enjoyed it.  Does anyone have any ideas about other parallel Weyards?  If so post them.
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2016, 05:19:32 PM »

I dunno about that story (it might be hard to implement into a game, although it's interesting to play from essentially "captured felix's" perspective), but it would be cool if there were "parallel weyards" in the sense of alternative endings. Like, what you do has a change on the ending of stuff. Perhaps Saturos and Menardi survive and are able to keep Felix, Sheba and Jenna under their control. That would be really interesting I think, although explaining how they survive would be difficult.

Wish the games were just in one game, it'd be a lot easier to do; Fox, do your magic!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 05:33:15 PM by Seto Kaiba » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2016, 05:33:58 PM »

Unless Isaac and co. fail or even die. Kind of like how the alternate timelines for Zelda supposedly came about with Link and Ganondorf. Piers can even be roped into joining you if the timeline keeps Alex the same as he already is, even though they wouldn't need him so much as they would need his ship.
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2016, 06:45:02 PM »

thebatwarrior: Saturos and menhardi as the good guys ? that could be a nice one actually. And Felix would be a bad guy in your story ? or does he die, and the only one you should be wary of is alex ?

Seto kaiba: Alex actually going to help them so they survive instead of going to the ship, then you have to go look for jenna and find her before Isaac's team. that could work no ?

My parallel weyard is the one where the choices you make actually has repercussions on your characters. Like if you always say that you don't care about the world and such, garet ends up being your enemy for exemple.
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2016, 07:42:34 PM »

Arguably Saturos and Menardi were good guys in the original, but it would be really interesting to see things from Felix's (or someone in his role, such as in Batman's post) perspective. It always bothered me how shrouded in mystery their misadventures were. If explored it would be interesting to see them convert Felix/Jenna towards their cause, which would add some substantial conflict between Isaac and Felix (which pretty much is nonexistent in the original titles). Honestly, not even a parallel Weyard and a more thematically grey and neutral one would be really engaging imho. I guess that counts as a "parallel" though lol

dive_darkness - I suppose that works, although I thought that the whole Fusion Dragon thing basically made them so weak that it doesn't matter? That's more what I was getting at. But if Alex had hardcore healing powers it might be possible.
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2016, 08:01:30 PM »

that's what i meant. Alex does heal saturos pretty quickly in mercury lighthouse.
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2016, 06:21:19 AM »

My parellel weyard would be....
Where Isaac and Co. can remove the obstructions Saturos & Menardi created and go straight to Venus Lighthouse (no Collosso) and wait until Saturos and Menardi arrive by grinding Thunder Lizards.
Saturos and Menardi are defeated without lighting the LH.
But then you get to play as Kraden for the rest of the game lighting the LH.

@different endings: that would be great.
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« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2016, 07:23:04 AM »

My parallel world has more racial diversity.  No no no, not the real world meaning.  And I don't mean the tolkienesque nonsense either (I'm sick of elves and dwarves).  We have Humans, Beastmen, and Drakes (proxians) already, but it's mostly just "humans with two towns of not human", which is kind of boring for high fantasy.  I think a greater integration of GS' races, as well as maybe adding 2-3 more, would have made for a more fun and interesting world.
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« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2016, 04:12:28 PM »

Rolina: there's the fishmen you encounter as enemies that could be implemented in a fan-made game. I mean, they're already there, underwater, just not used in the story.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 04:28:42 PM by dive_darkness » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2016, 04:29:43 PM »

My parallel world has more racial diversity.  No no no, not the real world meaning.  And I don't mean the tolkienesque nonsense either (I'm sick of elves and dwarves).  We have Humans, Beastmen, and Drakes (proxians) already, but it's mostly just "humans with two towns of not human", which is kind of boring for high fantasy.  I think a greater integration of GS' races, as well as maybe adding 2-3 more, would have made for a more fun and interesting world.
If this was a poll, this is were my vote would go to.
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 04:28:17 AM »

I would go for more cultural diversity and originality in the games' storytelling. As it stands you mostly have generic fantasy versions of European and Asian towns, as well as a number of other recognizable and even a couple borderline racist ones that are loosely based on other real world cultures. There's also the cave issue, where an overwhelming majority of towns and dungeons are either in caves or have cave segments. And then you also have a large number of poorly implemented cultural and mythological allusions, some of which just scream "failed anime characters" to me as someone who doesn't really watch it.

My parallel Weyard would actually give regions their own distinct cultural heritages that are distinct from real cultures, and then things like summons would either be designed entirely off of real-world legends or not at all. Town aesthetics and NPC designs would reflect this change too.

Oh, and I would scrap the "psynergy is mysterious and not known by everyone" thing because it really isn't. There are random NPCs who know what djinn are or at least are used to living with them, even when they aren't adepts or have very limited control over psynergy. One of these NPCs even tells you that you should find and recruit them when you find the second djinni in the entire series. Basically, what if Weyard were a land where knowledge of monsters and magic is widely known but not mastered? Many communities would be a bit reclusive and largely disconnected, yet largely hospitable, while still allowing for trade and other connections between more successful towns/regions. In other words, what is done now but actually done well.
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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2016, 02:03:39 PM »

@OP: So would Vale be near the shore? (Maybe the world map is redone.)
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« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2016, 10:46:34 PM »

Rolina: there's the fishmen you encounter as enemies that could be implemented in a fan-made game. I mean, they're already there, underwater, just not used in the story.
I could see Goblins being roped in with Seele and Unseele beings as a Fae race, and could see the Sirens and similar demon beings being the Fell race as well.  Heck, only reason I've not implemented them into my system is because of how much I'm already deviating from what GS does.

Though, having the Fell would make it a lot easier to explain what the hell Chalis' race is.
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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2016, 02:04:25 PM »

I generally find it odd that people try to approach realistic racial diversity in fantasy environments. Kind of takes away from the fantasy element from it. Sure, have a bunch of different people with different cultures and all that, but try to keep it away from real races as much as possible, since the story will constantly be compared to the real life counterparts (this is one of the main gripes I have with a lot of high fantasy tales).

Instead, take the Star Trek approach - have a singular human race with a lot of diversity but it's competing with other species that function on a similar sentience level, and build the tensions around there. You can keep the unique identity of the individual humans but acknowledge that they're essentially part of a larger unit. We can still have the diversity of the people as well, but focus on their diversity in a way that makes sense for Weyard, not Earth. For example, instead of having "native" races, focus more on races like the people of Garoh, who are directly influenced by fantasy elements (Air's Rock).

So for example, you could have the people of Garoh struggling to try to integrate because of their werewolf-ness, however, at the same time there are races that are more monster-like (maybe the Proxians for example?) who are still written like interesting human characters but have many important cultural and species-based differences that give rise to the conflict. So in that case if a war between people and Proxians broke out, you may have some incentive to stop oppressing the wolf-people and attempt to integrate them. Build the conflict between these three groups. Hell, this might make the interbreeding plotline so common in these high fantasy stories actually interesting for once lol.

Proxians and Humans after all have very different anatomy and may require different things for different reasons. They both have reasons to look down on the others and thus conflict can build that way pretty easily. However, since they can unify with psynergy and sentience there may be individuals who cross between the sides, or even join together as a peaceful third party. There's really a ton that you could do with this.

Screw it, just have Golden Sun Starship Enterprise. I'm not even a star trek fan, but why not.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 02:10:46 PM by Seto Kaiba » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2016, 11:42:33 PM »

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"Real World Racial Diversity" I straight up call Ethnic diversity instead, in order to separate the two apart.  "Ethnic diversity" makes more sense if they're done like they are in real life - where you find different ethnicity in different regions of the world.  Golden Sun did this well.  Bonus points if the cultures are different rather than stereotypes, since it gives the fantasy world its own unique feel rather than just a simple copy-paste job.  Racial diversity, however, makes a lot more sense to be more integrated than ethnic diversity.  Fantasy races can give variety to cities, and can even help in form the world.  For example, if you don't find many Beastmen in hot climates, but they're more common than other races in cold climates, it informs that they can handle colder temperatures better, but aren't as able to take the heat as well.  That's pretty cool and subtle world building.  What we got was like, one town for Drakes (prox), and two for beastmen (Garoh and Morgall).  It's kinda disappointing, you know?  If they were more interwoven into the world, and if we had more to work with, I think I'd find the GS world far more fascinating.

For example, what if Sheba had been a beastman, and Piers a merdude?  It'd be cool to not have a party full of boring vanilla humans, you know?
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2016, 01:16:44 AM »

My main issue with video game races is when they are used as a substitute for developing actual lore and culture, but I can also see them complementing cultural variety well enough provided it's not overdone and too analogous to real world dynamics that it detracts from whatever fantasy setting the game is trying to establish.

This makes me think we should have a discussion topic on diversity in video games, but that also seems to be a contentious issue these days. :/
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2016, 01:25:03 AM »

I think races should be separate from cultures - basically, cultures should be based on nation and region, not race.  Also sick to death of Tolkien races, so new races like what GS provides are a welcome change. :3

I don't think this qualifies as a diversity in games argument - that seems to exist for a real world social reason.  This is completely different.
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2016, 01:38:48 AM »

I do too in all honesty, even if some in-game cultures may be dominated by certain in-game races as you describe them (e.g. Prox compared to most other towns). I don't mind Tolkien races that much but I could see them working as subgroups or hybrids or other groups; GS2 did have dwarves after all, and elves were planned at one point even though I'm not sure where they would have gone. Such things could even be treated as normal human variation (e.g. humans on one continent develop longer ears but are otherwise human). I mean I still mostly agree with Seto, but I can also see this kind of thing working well enough.

And that's true, although depending on how one writes their game there can definitely be some overlap.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 01:40:33 AM by Lord Squirtle » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2016, 01:51:18 AM »

Either way, there's a reason I lump all the tolkein races into the same category.  Human, Elf, Dorf, all fall under the category of Mankind.  I'm just... sooo tired of them.  Can totally see not saying no to them, but that's what subraces are for anyways, like we saw in Beastmen in DD.
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« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2016, 05:40:27 PM »

I, for one, demand more bird people. lol

I think it would also be interesting to have people who were clearly oppressed/used as experimental fodder for things like the Lemurians. Redact the eternal water crap and turn it into technology and you could have a race that's the product of heavy experimentation for immortality. That would be sweet.

I've always had a soft spot for a race that's blind or sensory-deprived in some other way, and have the whole infrastructure built around that. For example, a city of people born blind who function otherwise sufficiently but they live deep in caves or some other low-light conditions that make it difficult for the average Weyardian to find them. Have a bunch of mysticism built around them by other races who know nothing else outside of their existence, about how extremely powerful they are, but have them at most be average adepts who use their psynergy to raise crops or something.

Speaking of Psynergy, it is disappointing how few races in the first two games could actually use it. I know that it's supposed to be only relegated to very specific groups of people, but come on we had like... what, 4 races? And the Anemos are borderline extinct, so it's not like you get to meet them. Outside of those races are people who embraced the "science" or "spirituality" or whatever behind psynergy and learned about it's power separately instead of having the inherent ability.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 05:44:28 PM by Seto Kaiba » Logged

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February 26, 2020, 05:17:44 AM
Salanewt: New patch up; waited until now to make it because it's such a basic change, but it's here now.
February 25, 2020, 03:20:41 AM
Salanewt: Hey! Yeah, we can now make recoil damage in GS. Would you mind if I ask for a link to this video? I'm really curious. :P
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Foreclosure: Alas, I still gotta play BoF dragon quarters. I saw on a video you guys can now make recoil damage in golden sun. Is it too hard?
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Fox: I guess one thing this game has going for it is the Day and Night cycle.
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Fox: Also, I noticed since the very beginning of the game, that usually the dresser drawers (whatever you call them) have items in them.
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Fox: (And I only recently got Karn, the fourth PC.)
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Fox: Okay, another thought... "gsmagic" could be the code name/project name... and "Golden Sun Magic" could be the more formal official name... (As in using both names.)  -  I still need to look into these other games as well... so who knows if it could be better to call it Camelot Magic if those should ever be supported to a decent standard.  Would probably be a long time from now, though. As I can be pretty lazy.
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Fox: Also. I call my program "gsmagic" and not "GSMagic" =P (Not asking for correction/I being silly)... Had to call it something, so picked something short.  Maybe I should rename it to Golden Sun Magic later. *shrug*
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Fox: (And "Golden Sun" instead of "GS" to reduce confusion that would likely not be there anyway... when "Golden Sun" doesn't take up much space to start with. (Imagine being new and thinking GS meant GameShark, or some other oddity. Ew.)) - All just thoughts...I'm still going with most of this not mattering that much, though.
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Fox: I tempted to also suggest the Editors can go in the first category. Since the Editor is the reason this place exists in the first place. (I think.)
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Fox: (combined = Not meant to be taken literally... but rather.... to generalize things more, since it apparently looks like we don't need the extra space no one is using.)
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Fox: Worse still... we've only used those for Golden Sun content.... and there's not much there.
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Fox: E.g. Maybe everything in "Assets & Discussion" could be combined with "Creative Works".... I don't feel like sound and art apply to general hacking anyway... that only comes into play when you have tools to insert them.
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Fox: categories and/or forums
December 17, 2019, 04:36:48 PM
Fox: Everything else seems to be about right, though. Perhaps some categories could be combined(?), but doesn't really matter that much.
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Fox: (Then sell the badges on the Trade Center for a very high price... and give a lot of active people coins to buy them with, so they can basically transfer the coins to me if they want something... Gosh I could be a naughty hoarder. =P)
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