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Author Topic: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded  (Read 16028 times)
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« Reply #225 on: June 16, 2017, 08:06:22 AM »

I'm gonna keep going with my 1.61 run since I managed to deal with the problematic Mercury Djinn without much trouble once I got Piers and his Shade Djinn. I noticed that the Cave Trolls in Taopo Swap do at least five times as much damage as they have any right to. Attached is a screenshot of level 20 Felix getting horribly overkilled (over 2x his max HP) by a Cave Troll.


* taopo_swamp_cave_troll.png (853.94 KB, 962x640 - viewed 50 times.)
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« Reply #226 on: June 16, 2017, 08:16:20 AM »

I'm gonna keep going with my 1.61 run since I managed to deal with the problematic Mercury Djinn without much trouble once I got Piers and his Shade Djinn. I noticed that the Cave Trolls in Taopo Swap do at least five times as much damage as they have any right to. Attached is a screenshot of level 20 Felix getting horribly overkilled (over 2x his max HP) by a Cave Troll.

...v1.61b is up.


* The cause.PNG (66.82 KB, 512x387 - viewed 42 times.)
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« Reply #227 on: June 16, 2017, 11:05:03 AM »

I cant believe someone is making a difficulty mod I love it!!
I just only found this mod.
Might it possible to even add a secret/additional boss or only work with with we have?

What's the difference between
Golden Sun: The Broken Seal:
Golden Sun: The Lost Age


This mod is just for golden sun 2 right?
? Broken seal?
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« Reply #228 on: June 16, 2017, 11:11:44 AM »

Might it possible to even add a secret/additional boss or only work with with we have?

ATM i don't know how to do it nor i have plans for that.

Quote
What's the difference between
Golden Sun: The Broken Seal:
Golden Sun: The Lost Age

This mod is just for golden sun 2 right?
? Broken seal?

Broken Seal is Golden Sun 1. The japanese title for GS1 includes "The broken seal" in its name so i use it to make it clear that i'm talking about the 1st game only.
So, mod is for both games.
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« Reply #229 on: June 17, 2017, 08:05:13 AM »

I'm finding that for almost the entirety of the Eastern Sea, Piers sucks in any class besides his base class, which isn't even a great class to begin with. Also, Mercury Djinn are in high demand by Jenna and Sheba so it's hard to justify giving him all the Mercury Djinn when the only great thing about his base class is Prism.

The only thing left I have to do in the Eastern Sea is beat Poseidon and Piers is level 26. The best base damage Mercury Psynergy available to him outside is base class is Ice Horn which is 13 PP and the only way to get it is from the Venus/Jupiter triple element class. The double element classes and his Mars/Jupiter triple element class are even worse, where he's stuck as Froth Sphere (12 PP) until Fiery Blast in the Mars double element class. In fact, he doesn't get anything from any of these three classes that's better than Froth Sphere in any element until Fiery Blast. At level 26, his best base damage psynergy in his Jupiter double element class are Drench (9 PP) and Wind Slash (11 PP), which is terrible. Piers in his base class isn't even as good a warrior as Felix in his base class or double element classes so the only roles for him before getting Fiery Blast or hitting 24 Djinn (for the triple element classes) are party healing from the Venus double element class (which is worse than Wish) or act as a weaker Felix.

Giving him the Cool line instead of either the Douse or Froth lines would help a ton. I'm not sure why Cool was removed from his base class in the first place but he desperately needs it back. My recommendation would be to replace the Douse line with the Cool line on his Jupiter double element class and his Mars/Jupiter triple element class and replace the Froth line with the Cool line on his Mars and Venus double element classes. The Douse line is largely irrelevant for him because Drench is useless by his join time so there's no need for him to have it just for Deluge, and the Froth line is barely better. If for whatever reason Cool has been coded out of the game since it doesn't appear on any class, Prism would work instead since they're very similar.

Edit: More thoughts of TLA thus far. I just beat Poseidon.

The rusty items are pretty bad aside from the Captain's Axe and Dracomace. Usually comparable gear will be available by the time you can forge them so there's no point forging them, especially since they cost a lot. Most of the Eastern Sea rusty items aside from Captain's Axe and Dracomace could probably use some minor buffs to make them worth the trip back to Yallam and the cost of forging.

Poseidon was a really fun and challenging boss, I think I used 2x Ulysses, 2x Judgement, and 2x Thor before he fell. Three turns is no joke. Jenna burned through her entire PP pool of 189 plus some more after I used Ether and she didn't even cast every turn. My setup was all Mercury Djinn on Jenna, all Jupiter Djinn on Felix, all Venus Djinn on Piers, and all Mars Djinn on Sheba. I find no one wants Venus Djinn in TLA so Piers got stuck with them since he gets the Heal line and his other double element classes are really bad. At least in TBS Garet excelled in his Venus double elemental class.

Edit 2: Leda's Bracelet says it gives wind and earth power but it actually gives wind power and earth resist.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 09:59:55 AM by bpat » Logged
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« Reply #230 on: June 17, 2017, 10:27:52 AM »

@Psynergy lines and classes
Outside of base classes, psynergy lines are based on the class' PP multiplier, which represents its proficiency on a mage-like role. The average for warrior-esque classes is thorn/starburst/ray/froth, Psy Champion and Sun champion are Warrior-Mage hybrids, thus gain Whirlwind. Chaos Lord and Sea Lord are horrible at casting and don't go beyond growth/blast/douse/slash. Ninja and General are hybrids as well so they gain up to ~Plasma and Gaia.

So, basically you're telling me that Piers sucks in a role i didn't give him.

Piers in his base class is basically a Garet who can actually cast.
As far as dual classes go i don't think there's anything as sturdy as Protector Piers, the most defensive dual on the second best character on defense.
Radiant Piers is actually good on the offense, and can fall back to Aura if needed.
Sea lord is a less extreme Chaos Lord. He loses a bit of Attack and speed, but is more resilient to statuses and can heal if needed (so i don't get how garet can excel as a Chaos Lord while Piers is bad as a Sea Lord)

@Cool
It was removed while this was still called Balance Age (replaced by Prism in his base class) but now i think i can bring it back if needed. Point is, Piers doesn't have class line that could learn it.

Giving Piers a caster class at this point is going to be difficult. The easiest way to do it would be swapping the Sun Champions and Radiant's PP multiplier, which would affect Piers' Radiant class as well. But I lack Beam in TBS, which is the Mars equivalent of Whirlwind.

@Rusty items
Sad (and strange) to see that Asteria's staff isn't included. I think i'll use it as Jenna's main weapon through the whole western sea. Other stuff mainly depend on when you get them. in the western sea there's an overabundance of weapons so if you go even a bit off course it can happen that you find weaker stuff than what you already have.

@No one wants Venus Djinn in TLA
Miko Jenna is one of my favorite class lines ever, but i understand that lv 26, right before she learns Serpent Fume, is the absolute weakest point for that class line, offensively.

@Leda
Missclick on my part. The description is correct and Leda's already fixed for next release.

Thanks for the feedback!
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 10:55:32 AM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #231 on: June 17, 2017, 11:21:00 AM »

Interesting, I think I better understand what you had in mind for the classes. My party is now level 28 and I'm running base class Jenna, Jupiter double elemental Felix, Venus double elemental Piers, and Mercury double elemental Sheba which has been my most successful setup so far. I basically forced Piers into a weird role where he's my best healer and my second best warrior, since the preferred Mars Djinn are occupied by Jenna who has a fantastic base class, possibly the best out of all eight characters other than maybe Mia. I find it interesting that you like Jenna's Venus double elemental class, since it looks like a straight downgrade from her base class. I liked it in Gondowan when Briar was great but now it just doesn't cut it in terms of offense.

Asteria's Staff is looks alright, I gave her the Corsair's Edge instead but I'm not sure if that was the right call. In retrospect it probably would have been better to use Asteria's Staff instead now that I've decided to keep her in her base class, but for a while she was mostly casting Hail Prism with +water power gear so I didn't value the fire power highly.
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« Reply #232 on: June 17, 2017, 01:50:23 PM »

I find it interesting that you like Jenna's Venus double elemental class, since it looks like a straight downgrade from her base class.
The Miko is a full fledged healer (missing only cure poison and restore) with access to a strong single target psynergy. The only thing she can't do well is support, cause guard is arguably the worst support spell among the 6 buff/debuffs. Heal is way better than Aura and she has Revive, but it's also true that symbiotic dual caster classes gain a huge boost in the endgame thanks to the Big Bang Gloves (Mars/Venus power boost) and Selene's Armlet (Mercury/Jupiter power boost).

Being a healer means she also has better defenses: the Incendiary has subpar Luck, while the Miko is much more resilient to statuses. But that again, is something that becomes more and more relevant by progressing through the game, with instant death attacks and such. Many classes are like this... for example... the Chaos Lord has amazing stats with top tier attack, great defense and HP but a Delude is enough to cripple him.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 01:59:17 PM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #233 on: June 19, 2017, 10:51:08 AM »

Just beat the Flame Dragons with a level 33-34 party. They destroyed me on my first attempt so I got the Djinn and items from Treasure Isle, Yampi Desert Cave, and Islet Cave then came back. This was an incredibly difficult fight and one of the most fun fights in Golden Sun Reloaded, with only Poseidon being a comparable challenge (and also very fun!). My strategy was to remove all the agility gear from Mia so she would heal after each Flame Dragon attacks once. I had her and Jenna heal two of Felix, Isaac, Garet, and Piers attacked the smaller Flame Dragon with Thunder Mine and Odyssey, rotating them as they got stunned. Ivan and Sheba only showed up to use a PP restoring Djinn or revive someone.

On the other hand, Moapa and Karst and Agatio were disappointingly easy battles. My party was level 29 for Moapa and level 30 for Karst and Agatio. My saves from shortly before these battles should be in the third and second slots of the attached save respectively. The first slot has my party shortly before battling the Flame Dragons but they're actually in Islet Cave.

Just for fun, here are my rankings of the eight adepts. This applies to both boss battles and general use. My current class setup is Worldwaker Ivan, Shogun Isaac, Jonin Garet, Angel Mia, Incendiary Jenna, Jonin Felix, General Piers, and Pure Mage Sheba. The only things I'm not happy about are that Isaac would rather be a Jonin and Ivan would rather be a Pure Mage.

1) Jenna. Her base class is amazing and she does the best physical damage of the four mage adepts. She has relevant offense Psynergy for the entire early-mid game since Cycle Beam is passable even in the Western Sea thanks to the high fire power she has in her base class. Fume is pretty good too though it's not that important. The Aura series is great since Healing Aura and Cool Aura are available before the second and third psynergy in the Heal and Wish series. Favorite class: Incendiary.

2) Mia. She's Jenna-lite. Physical attacks are worthless if unleashes don't trigger though. Trades Fume for Ply which is alright but single-target heals aren't that important late game. Glacier is her version of Cycle Beam. Bad agility can be a problem but she's still really good. Favorite class: Angel.

3) Isaac. Great physical attacker and a decent early healer in his base class. Almost functionally identical to Felix but has a better base class so I give him the edge. No reason to run him as anything other than Psy Champion or Jonin since Jupiter Djinn are not in high demand by other adepts. Well that's not entirely true since it's hard to make both Isaac and Felix Jonins but Shogun is good enough. Favorite class: Psy Champion/Jonin/Shogun.

4) Felix. Same as Isaac but doesn't have Cure in his base class. Favorite class: Psy Champion/Jonin/Shogun.

5) Garet. His base class is okay but he really shines in Chaos Lord and Jonin which fix his agility and improves his already solid attack. His ridiculous defenses are always welcome in harder boss battles. Favorite class: Chaos Lord/Jonin.

6) Sheba. Boon worked wonders early but she kinda sucks in any class that doesn't have party healing because having offensive psynergy being her only notable trait is pretty bad. Terrible at physical attacks, like Mia. Gets the edge over Ivan because her base class is better early. Favorite class: Arcanist/Pure Mage.

7) Ivan. Sheba without Boon. I run him as a pure offense caster which is worthless in boss battles but pretty amazing otherwise. For boss battles in TBS he was relegated to using important Djinn like Flash and Breeze and in TLA boss battles he sits on the bench. Favorite class: Inquisitor/Pure Mage.

8) Piers. Easily the worst of the warrior adepts because his attack stat and his offensive psynergy are both pretty bad until he gets Froth Spiral. His base class looks decent since it gives him Prism and Diamond Berg but there's no way he gets to keep his Mercury Djinn when Mia's base class is too good to pass up and Ivan and Sheba both benefit immensely from them. Favorite class: General/Protector.

* western_sea_bosses.sav (64 KB - downloaded 6 times.)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 08:31:20 PM by bpat » Logged
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« Reply #234 on: June 19, 2017, 11:15:32 PM »

Thanks for the tips. Seeing how you still won't let go of Angel and Incendiary worries me a bit, as well as the disappointing boss fight you mentioned. I'll also check the dragons cause there shouldn't be THAT much difference from the JL battle against their human form.
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« Reply #235 on: June 20, 2017, 06:34:56 AM »

I like Jenna and Mia's base classes best because party healing benefits immensely from elemental power. I gave them all the best fire and water power items respectively and it worked incredibly. Their stats are pretty bad but I don't need them to do damage when I have Felix, Isaac, Garet, and Sheba.

I just beat Balrog and Sentinel with a level 35-37 party and a level 36-38 party respectively. Turns out giving Sheba all the cursed mage items and a Mythril Armlet and Ninja Sandles makes her outdamage Garet with all the cursed warrior items and Ninja Sandles and Felix with the Sol Blade and a bunch of crit items though her low HP means she can't occupy a middle slot safely. I switched her and Ivan's classes for this because Ivan doesn't want to wear Ninja Sandals over Silver Greaves.

Balrog was actually the harder of the two superbosses because of his Stun Jip and high agility. If he stunned my healer before Wish Well or Cool Aura then I could expect party members to go down. I often used Petra and Ground to guarantee he doesn't stun or summon before I can but other than those I mostly focused on attacks with Ker's Weight, Sol Blade, and Darksword with two characters and healing with the other two. It was also annoying when one of Ivan's Mercury Djinn got put on standby since it made him lose Wish.

Sheba was amazing against Sentinel because Soul Doom ignores his high defense and exploits his Venus weakness. I still had to have two healers to make sure she didn't drop. Unlike against Balrog where I used all eight party members, I mostly used Sheba, Jenna, Felix, and Mia since Sheba and Felix have great Venus unleash setups (Garet's Jupiter unleash is bad here and Isaac has an Epicenter/Skull Splitter setup which doesn't work). Sometimes I'd swap Ivan in and have him use Wish Well and Felix Immediately unleash Lull before Sentinel could act, then immediately swap him back out and have Jenna unleash Flash and Felix summon Magaera. Other than that my strategy was mostly attacks with Felix and Sheba and healing with Jenna and Mia.

I attached a save with my party right before the Flame Dragons in the first slot, Balrog in the second slot, and Sentinel in the third slot.

Edit: I beat Star Magician as well, which was the hardest one yet. Anger Balls have relatively high HP so I ignored them until they blew themselves up. Thunder Balls do tons of damage if left unaccounted for but they weren't as high priority as Guardian or Refresh Balls. Guardian Balls annoyingly could take a hit of Armageddon or Soul Doom because of their earth resistance so I had to use an AoE as well to kill one in one turn. Refresh Balls instantly die in one hit of Armageddon, Soul Doom, Epicenter, or Death Leap but sometimes Felix or Sheba would get deluded before attacking making them miss their unleash.

* flamedragons_balrog_sentinel.sav (64 KB - downloaded 7 times.)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 07:37:13 AM by bpat » Logged
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« Reply #236 on: June 20, 2017, 09:05:20 PM »

Glad to see you're liking the Cursed Mage setup.

About party healing: in this mod the influence of ePower on healing has already been reduced (to 66%) and it's further reduced to 50% for the next release as of v1.62. This way ePower has the same relevance for offense and healing.

That said, Angel Mia is always going to be the best healer in the game, but Incendiary Jenna can only be good at best, cause Aura is inherently weak. Any class with Heal or Wish, be it dual or tri elemental is supposed to fulfill that role better.

I've also fixed a bug about healing: currently any amount of ePower over 200 is ignored so you'll probably notice Mia and Jenna to improve despite the nerf.

Tip: Incendiary Jenna as a healer against Balrog probably wasn't a wise choice. She has subpar Luck and a weakness to Stun to boot. Ditto for Chaos Lords/Samurais against Star Magician.

Edit: v1.62 is UP
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 11:39:44 AM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #237 on: June 21, 2017, 12:47:27 PM »

All these buffs to single target psynergy effectively buff warriors, no? Any plans to pick a single line per element of AoE, more mage-useful psynergy to give additional effects to? Maybe Volcano, Gaia, Plasma, and Prism?
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« Reply #238 on: June 21, 2017, 02:53:32 PM »

You mean Odissey and the others? The plan was to make them actually useable, cause they were completely overshadowed by unleashes in the endgame, while the first stages (Ragnarok) were just overpowered. Granting EPAs the ability to debuff the target is something i thought a long time ago, but without the ailment attribute it would've been almost useless.

As for mages: currently the only spells that debuff are the Acrobat's Bramble and Thunder Card. Extending the effect to other psynergies has some issues like finding the actual slots for the effects, especially in TBS.

Still, if i ever end up doing that, it's never gonna happen for the strongest spells. So there would be the issue of giving mages low tier spells that debuff as well.

It's not as easy as it was for warriors: they ALL already had some kind of EPA that was useless in the endgame. Mages, especially tri elemental classes, often have just 2-3 very strong offensive spells and then healing and support.

PS: about the "buff" to warriors. I don't really see it that way. I see it more as giving them another role. An unleash setup has been a no brainer for warrior classes since forever, but with the unleash nerf, EPA buff and EPAs that debuff i hope this will change.
At the same time, the mages' endgame improved with the latest change to the PP formula: my lv55 casters gain have PP that range from 400 to 500+, which translates into a BP increase of 50~63, but the highest reduction in BP i've done (as compensation) is 40. If there's someone that's got a straight buff, that's mages.

EDIT: I kinda screwed up healing. I'll work on a fix and release it as soon as it's ready. Fix is already up.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 09:33:51 PM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #239 on: June 23, 2017, 10:25:17 PM »

Love this hack! This has made TBS feel almost like a new experience for me.
I just have a few thoughts:
1. Kraken was a big difficulty spike. It took me quite a few tries and some grinding to beat it, whereas everything up to that point had been relatively easy. It also wasn't great afterwards when I had to deal with the tough encounters in Altmiller without being able to heal at an Inn.
2. Paralyze as a psynergy is almost too powerful. Obviously it doesn't work on bosses but on everything else it removes a lot of the challenge. Maybe make it cost more PP?
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Today at 12:18:56 PM
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August 16, 2017, 04:50:22 AM
Fox: (Then again, just because posting is disabled, doesn't necessarily mean the buttons would be removed as well.)
August 16, 2017, 04:48:55 AM
Fox: (I mean, buttons I would expect to be similar to that.... rather than those specifically since I recall posting there to be disabled.)
August 16, 2017, 04:33:02 AM
Fox: Yeah... I like to think of it as a page loaded with ads. And it's not just the forum home page either... check the sub-forums/topics themselves. == New Topic/Reply/etc. buttons were affected.
August 15, 2017, 07:04:30 PM
Salanewt: Lol, nice. :P
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Foxhttp://z9.invisionfree.com/Golden_Sun_Hacking/index.php? == Hahaha! GSHC Classic looks funny now that Photobucket killed the images. :P Anyway, how is everyone doing today?
August 14, 2017, 07:12:02 PM
Salanewt: So yeah, I'm typing up a non-academic essay on why GS2 was rushed; expect that sometime soon!
August 07, 2017, 05:53:11 AM
Fox: But anyway, such a hack mod is simply an idea, and I do not have any current plans to work on it at this time, so.....
August 07, 2017, 05:51:46 AM
Fox: Okay, cool. I think my idea works best without an ability to swap PCs (OR to just simply make that use it the PC's turn.) Hmmm... And with that, I question if a turn list is even needed with my approach. (Outside of maybe 1 entry, if that shortens the modifications.)
August 07, 2017, 05:13:26 AM
Salanewt: To be honest I've been thinking of expanding the battle turn section and also adding code for PCs to have more than two turns in the AI overhaul, but I probably won't allow anyone to have more than four.
August 06, 2017, 12:22:17 AM
Fox: Oh, and if that approach was taken = Would like to also have it so you select the spell to use when it is actually your turn rather than at round start.
August 06, 2017, 12:12:37 AM
Fox: Would take a lot of balancing, but I can see an adept being very slow, and yet very powerful.
August 06, 2017, 12:06:11 AM
Fox: And bosses can have an Agility that is above half of the maximum possible Agility. Mwahaha.
August 06, 2017, 12:04:14 AM
Fox: Hmm... What if Agility could be recodded to allow for multiple turns per round? Obvious, calculations could be made in a way that depending on your Agility, you could like get a different number of turns each round. (eg. 1 turn this round, 2 the next, 1 turn again.) Obviously, To ensure 2 turns all the time, you should have at least double the opponent's agility,.... erm...something. So... you/or enmy could be so fast, the opponent can't even make a move, unless turns are capped.
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