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Author Topic: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded  (Read 169443 times)
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« Reply #440 on: January 27, 2019, 01:08:49 PM »

Reading that is how I learned that enemies are guaranteed to add extra RNs, regardless if they get a chance to act or not, unlike TBS (i think?).

Oddly enough, using Hail, a Stat Debuffing Djinni, is the one who scored the Mystery Gloves for me. But for whatever reason, if Minotaurus A survives the Preemptive Strike, I don't get the Mystery Gloves, despite having the same number of RNs. (+1RN extra in Turn 1 due to Minotaurus A dying and +2 at the start of Turn 2 for 2 Monsters living, vs +0RN extra in Turn 1 and +3RN in Turn 2 for 3 Monsters living.) That part just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

EDIT:
I think I have an idea of what's going on. I'm guessing the RNG, or whatever system determines which monster drops their item, is checking if Minotaurus A, the Middle Monster of the enemy formation, dies on the 31st/32nd RN if it's still on the field by the time the 31/32RN Kill comes around. Death by Poison must not add an RN value, because doing the strategy I've listed previously with Mia using Poison Flow instead of Dire Inferno in Turn 1, I get a guaranteed Vial Drop, which is the Minotaurus Drop Item. I'm not entirely sure about this, but it's the best explanation I can think of why one method of 32RN Drop gets me the Mystery Gloves, but two others either get me nothing or a Vial.

Also I tried doing this method with Fog (meaning 31RNs at Magicore death), and got nothing each time. I think something bugged and bumped the guaranteed drop RN Value to 32, or Fog is one of the bugged Djinn that add an extra RN and Hail isn't. I can test to see which other Mercury Djinn produce the Mystery Gloves and which ones don't, if you'd like.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 07:28:23 PM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #441 on: January 29, 2019, 01:07:34 AM »

Yeah, I just made equipment and weapons drops 1:1 and threw away the extras. I treat rare drops as unique items anyways, so pitching the extras just works. Grinding out rare drops adds xp and RNG manip adds hard resets, frustration, and too much djinn rearrangement to make sure everyone is fast enough for just one item, imo.
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« Reply #442 on: January 29, 2019, 01:18:09 AM »

Yeah, I'm gonna do something like that. Use a cheat to force Mystery Gloves and a Crystal Rod to drop. Being too slow to even have a chance to outspeed the monsters I'm abusing, and given that I've got proof that 31RNs doesn't guarantee the drop in this mod (all stat-debuffing Mercury Djinn net me a Mystery Glove at 32RN in my RNG Manipulation Testing Encounter with a Magicore and two Minotauruses thanks to their bugged extra RN value, but Fog, Serac, and Mist don't cause the Mystery Gloves to drop), I don't think I'll be able to get these pieces of equipment at a reasonable time for them to be worth getting under more normal circumstances.

EDIT:
So, I spawned a couple of Mystery Gloves into Sheba's inventory, and I noticed that they're defensively weaker than the Virtuous Armlet, which you'd get sooner according to Cerberus being 2 levels lower than Magicore, meaning you'd go to Ankolh Ruins before Tundaria Tower. This kinda contradicts the Golden Rule you stated on the first post of this thread, that new equipment is always statistically/generally better than old equipment, but it's only a minor gripe. If you decide to change this, a simple fix would be to swap Cerberus' and Magicore's drop item, so you're more likely to get the Mystery Gloves first.


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« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 01:44:29 AM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #443 on: January 29, 2019, 04:16:37 PM »

EDIT:
So, I spawned a couple of Mystery Gloves into Sheba's inventory, and I noticed that they're defensively weaker than the Virtuous Armlet, which you'd get sooner according to Cerberus being 2 levels lower than Magicore, meaning you'd go to Ankolh Ruins before Tundaria Tower. This kinda contradicts the Golden Rule you stated on the first post of this thread, that new equipment is always statistically/generally better than old equipment, but it's only a minor gripe. If you decide to change this, a simple fix would be to swap Cerberus' and Magicore's drop item, so you're more likely to get the Mystery Gloves first.

The Golden Rule is valid when comparing items of the same type. Gloves have inherently weaker defense than Bracelets acquired in the same point of the game, like long swords and light blades, or heavy armor and robes
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« Reply #444 on: January 29, 2019, 05:34:49 PM »

Alrighty. Though due to the Mystery Gloves being available later than the Virtuous Armlet and when farming Star Dusts becomes available, the Mystery Gloves are completely pointless. Both guys have the Luna Shield for PP Regen and the Planet Armor if they want extra Elemental Power, while the girls would rather have the Virtuous Armlet for stronger offense under their Jupiter/Mars classlines, or Sheba would rather have the Clear Bracelet for stronger Wishing.

Speaking of Star Dust items, the Comet Mace is REALLY bad, to the point where it's not worth even considering getting. The Astral Circlets and Luna Shields alone take higher priority for use of the three free Star Dusts you get, and by the time you can farm Living Armors for more, you have the Demon's Mace, the Mist Saber, and the Rusty Longsword from Aqua Rock. Even if you did decide to get it instead of Astral Circlets or Luna Shields, Aqua Rock REALLY knocks down its usefulness since Mercury Power is the least desirable thing on your warriors at that point. Plus Sheba likely has the Cloud Wand at this point, which is more useful thanks to the MaxPP Boost.

Anywho, I finally beat Gaia's Rock on HM, but that damn Serpent managed to get off an Instant Kill Mighty Press on Sheba RIGHT before he died... bastard... Fury

EDIT:
tacking this bit onto this post to avoid double posting-

Which of Jenna's tri-element Classes are supposed to parallel Ivan's/Mia's/Sheba's Tri-Element classes? I know Guardian is Pure Mage, and I'm pretty certain Incantrix equals Fateweaver. But I can't tell if Heretic or Valkyrie was supposed to parallel Fury and the other Worldwaker. Though Heretic and Valkyrie strongly feel like Fury was broken into two separate classes for Jenna, Heretic coming away rather okay, but Valkyrie suffering so horribly it feels like a rushed/unfinished class. two EPAs and ONE Attack Psynergy is all Valkyrie has, making it easily Jenna's worst Class. I really don't have any clue what your goal was with Valkyrie, but as it is, there's absolutely no reason to use it.
As it stands, Jenna's best parallel to Fury is Pierrot, which isn't a good thing.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 10:36:43 PM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #445 on: January 30, 2019, 12:07:20 AM »

Don't try to force parallels. Valkyrie is obviously the mage warrior hybrid like Fury, Jonin and General are, but it's more defensive while Fury is all about offense.

Valkyrie is easily the worst caster among mages and has lowish attack (even though it's only 5% less than Fury) but can: Revive, ST Heal, Debuff (with EPAs), Buff, Break and heal ailments. It's unparalleled at support.

Incantatrix is... and oddball. If this wasn't golden sun it'd be an anti-mage mage that can do a bit of everything. Sort of like a master of magic (that's the concept behind it). The rest can easily be seen: highest PP multiplier paired with Fume, AOE healing, self sustain with the drains, ward, weaken and bind for support. The best parallel would be calling it a Mars Arcanist.

Heretic is Fury in pure caster form: all on offense. Second best offensive caster (190% + Punishment) right behind Necromancer (190% + Call Dullahan).

Guardian: Venus Pure mage. Nuff said.
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« Reply #446 on: January 30, 2019, 12:27:41 AM »

Hmm... I see.

Does replacing Cure Poison and Restore into Remedy free up a Psynergy slot? Because if so, I think Valkyrie would benefit greatly from a Quick Strike-type Psynergy or something like Fury's Rolling Fire, to fill in the free slot.

Incantrix really is an oddball. It does indeed look useful, but I can't really think of a scenario of when I'd use it outside of boss battles. Sadly, Bind probably won't be any good against bosses lol

I might use Jenna as a Cursed Heretic this time around, though that means Sheba/Ivan and Mia will likely shoved into Wishing Classes to make up for Jenna's lack of an AoE heal.

Guardian is just fantastic. A very fantastic class.

While on the topic of Jenna's classes, would it be possible to replace Miko's Thorn with Punji? The Thorn Psynergy line is pretty weak, though it's clear that Jenna's Miko Classline is inspired by Himi's Venus Classline, so I can understand if you'd rather not change it.

Also I came up with more ideas for a 4th Item Class, if you're still interested in making one.
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« Reply #447 on: January 30, 2019, 05:21:32 PM »

Does replacing Cure Poison and Restore into Remedy free up a Psynergy slot? Because if so, I think Valkyrie would benefit greatly from a Quick Strike-type Psynergy or something like Fury's Rolling Fire, to fill in the free slot.
Yes but i don't think i will for balance reasons. Jack of all trades shouldn't have access to the highest tiers.

While on the topic of Jenna's classes, would it be possible to replace Miko's Thorn with Punji? The Thorn Psynergy line is pretty weak, though it's clear that Jenna's Miko Classline is inspired by Himi's Venus Classline, so I can understand if you'd rather not change it.
Same as above, but i also have an excel sheet where i tried to balance offense and heal for each MT healer

As for the 4th item class i have no plans to make one for the time being
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« Reply #448 on: January 30, 2019, 05:56:34 PM »

If you consider Remedy a highest tiered Psynergy, I'm a little confused by that, considering I had very little reason, if any, to use Remedy towards the end of the game. If a Quick-Strike type Psynergy or something like Rolling Fire are considered highest tiered Psynergy, then perhaps Valkyrie could have a third debuffing EPA? If I remember right, Odyssey lowers Defense while Plume Edge lowers attack. If not a debuffing EPA, then perhaps Planetary could be her third EPA? Without something for raw physical damage like Fury got with Rolling Fire and Planetary, Valkyrie just lacks purpose for any team, since most other Mage Classes fill that supportive role FAR better with larger PP Pools, along with better ways to deal damage when Support isn't needed.

I don't really see how keeping Thorn over Punji is for balance purposes when Sheba under Mercury is doing huge damage with Shine Plasma and Ice Horn, both almost as strong as Unleashes around the middle to end of the Eastern Sea.

That's a shame about the 4th Item Class, but understandable, considering you'd have to code it from scratch.

EDIT:
I figured I should give my point of view on Support Classes to better explain my disappointment with Valkyrie.

In my opinion, a good/"ultimate" support class has valuable support skills that ONLY THEY can use.
The Bard and Chemist Jobs from Final Fantasy 5 are probably my favorite examples of great support classes that aren't dedicated healers.

Bards can put HP Regen on the entire party within a single turn at zero MP Cost, while other Jobs would need multiple turns to do the same while using a fair amount of MP or rather rare items. Bard can also drastically increase the party's stats given enough time, but nothing of value is lost should the battle end sooner than expected. Chemist can do the same through its Mix Command, but a prematurely ended battle leads to a waste of some very precious Mixing items.

Meanwhile Chemist has a whole array of supportive capabilities through their Mix command, many of which can ONLY be done through Mixing. A Chemist can grant a Buff to any party member that amplifies ALL Elemental Damage they put out. They can place Berserk, Haste, and Image (a special buff that flat out negates 2 physical attacks to the character) on a party member with a single turn.

They may seem overpowered, however neither Job will be able to take on the entire game themself.

I believe that if you want Valkyrie to be an "Ultimate" Support type class, then she needs something(s) that ONLY she can do, and for that thing(s) to be considerably useful.

Heck, my new ideas for the 4th Item Class were intended for making an Ultimate Support-type Class, as it would have very few direct attacks, but a multitude of Supportive Buffs that only it could do (outside of Djinn and Summoning).
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 02:05:54 AM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #449 on: February 01, 2019, 09:29:56 PM »

I meant highest tier in its own category, you can see i haven't given the upgrade to Remedy to all those who have access to CP+Restore.
There is merit on what you say about the valkyrie though, so i'm considering 1-2 buffs to it, but it won't be easy considering how picky i am.

BTW i know i'm partial to jenna so i'd like to hear opinion on piers' classes as well
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« Reply #450 on: February 01, 2019, 10:00:57 PM »

Valkyrie really needs a buff or two, considering nearly every class in the game, along with their grandmothers, can buff and/or heal like she can, if not better.

As for Piers' classes

General:
I really like this class, but seeing the Ray psynergy line kinda threw me off. I would've liked to see Cool return here over Ice, since it got replaced by Wave then by Prism in his Base Class line (what happened to Wave, anyway?). I find it strange for this class to have Gaia, seeing as how Gaia has become FAR more common than it used to be, and while it's sporting Ray, one of the weakest/weaker Jupiter Psynergy lines.

Holy Knight:
Nothing much to really say here. It's essentially Jupiter Dragoon. Solid, but Piers has better options.

Archon:
This class succeeds where Current-Valkyrie fails. Quick Strike gives this class a very strong move for damage, Liquifier for a Defense Debuff and Mars Damage, solid ST healing, and a Buff & Debuff that work very well together to reduce incoming damage.

Destroyer:
This is a gorgeous offense-oriented class. Diamond Berg and Thunder Mine for EPA Debuffs, and Meltdown to deal incredible damage. Boasting Impact+Impair to help boost the damage output, and self sustain through Drain+Psy Drain, this class is very well built. I feel that the Nova or Fire Psynergy lines replacing the Blast Psynergy would perfectly round out this class' kit, since Blast is far too weak to take up a Psynergy Slot on such a high tier class.

Honestly, I think the only possible way Piers could get any better is if there was a Draw Attacks mechanic he could use, so his wonderful bulk would get even better mileage against physical enemies.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 10:04:19 PM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #451 on: February 01, 2019, 10:20:17 PM »

Quote
General:
I find it strange for this class to have Gaia, seeing as how Gaia has become FAR more common than it used to be, and while it's sporting Ray, one of the weakest/weaker Jupiter Psynergy lines.

I grant psynergy lines based on power and how much i think a class is inclined toward casting. General is a warrior mage hybrid (again, along Fury, Ninja and Valkirie), so it's supposed to be the best caster among warriors. I also wanted each of those classes to focus on a different element. Ninja is wind, Fury is fire, Valkyrie is water and General is earth. "must be good at casting" and Venus -> Gaia

Quote
Destroyer:
I feel that the Nova or Fire Psynergy lines replacing the Blast Psynergy would perfectly round out this class' kit, since Blast is far too weak to take up a Psynergy Slot on such a high tier class.

Same reasoning as above, but on the opposite side of the spectrum. Destroyer is a tri-elemental chaos lord, a purely physical class, so it's horrible at casting.

Quote
Honestly, I think the only possible way Piers could get any better is if there was a Draw Attacks mechanic he could use, so his wonderful bulk would get even better mileage against physical enemies.
I'd love that too.
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« Reply #452 on: February 01, 2019, 10:43:25 PM »

That makes sense for them. Still curious as to what happened to Wave, though.

Does Jenna have access to the Fire Psynergy in any Class line besides her Disciple(Jupiter) Class? I'm pretty sure she flat out doesn't have access to Nova yet she has Blast in her Mercury Class, which I find rather strange. I really like the graphics for Nova and Fire, so it's kinda sad that they're pretty rare, particularly for Jenna.

EDIT:
So I looked at the document you linked under the Classes tab on the first post of this thread to see if Fire or Starburst are on any Mage Classes (sadly, only Fire exists on Jenna's Jupiter class. no other Mage Class gets Fire and none have Starburst), and I noticed something peculiar with Jenna's Guru and Inquisitor classes.

The Document states that Guru should have Juggle but it has Beam instead, and Inquisitor should have Raging Heat but it has Volcano instead.

Did you scrap the idea to have those Psynergies on those respective classes?


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« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 12:17:52 AM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #453 on: February 02, 2019, 02:06:19 AM »

update to v1.72

about wave: i wanted it cause it was cool and fit piers' water theme, but then i found out that i didn't really need a mercury psynergy stronger than prism, and decided that it wasn't worth it
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« Reply #454 on: February 02, 2019, 02:50:40 AM »

Updating is a scary thought since I'm playing on mobile and I'm worried about losing all my progress lol

Ah, okay. That makes sense.

On a different note, I'm SUPER THANKFUL for Sanctum Warping because I had forgotten to snag the Center Prong from Tundaria Tower while I was there, and I remembered it after I had chased Briggs to Champa...

Avimander was easier than the Serpent since it didn't regenerate HP or heal itself for 500+HP.... though it did kill Sheba just before it died.... now Sheba has stolen Piers' title of slowest level rate... ha ha ha.....

I'm terrified to fight Poseidon, honestly.

By the way, what's the damage formula for the Trident? is it like Base Damage Psynergy? Because if so and it has a fairly high BasePower, Heretic Jenna and Necromancers would have a considerably powerful Mercury "Psynergy" to use.

EDIT:
Whoops, nevermind about a "strong Mercury Psynergy." Just found out that the Trident isn't Mercury Based lol Sweat Drop

EDIT 2:
I do believe I've hit the end of Reloaded HM. Poseidon is horrendously overpowered, effortlessly tearing through the party's HP Pool with attacks doing 150-280+ damage along with THREE actions per turn, and an absurd amount of HP to where it is most likely impossible to outlast his huge damage output to somehow pull out a victory. Not even buffs can save me from Poseidon's ridiculous damage output. If we could hit him with Status Ailments, then MAYBE this fight would be possible. But as it stands, Poseidon is where HM Reloaded ends unless you do an absurd amount of level grinding, and I mean ABSURD. I'm not even sure if my Lv.48 Party in my completed file would be able to beat Poseidon with Late Eastern Sea gear.
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« Reply #455 on: February 02, 2019, 06:40:05 AM »

I'm surprised to see Piers performing so well for you. He was easily my worst party member throughout almost all of the eastern sea because he lacked good offense Psynergy (Hail Prism comes too late) and had worse attack than Felix. Late game I didn't feel like I needed a hybrid and no matter what I did he felt worse than the other warriors in physical classes and way worse than the mages in the more hybrid classes. At least he made a solid Dragontamer but that class line is horrible until very late game. What classes have you been running him in the mid game, especially around the eastern sea?
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« Reply #456 on: February 02, 2019, 02:28:19 PM »

I've been running Globetrotter (Jupiter) on him since it helps out his speed, gives him Boon, Diamond Dust, Astral Blast, and Impact. Piers' biggest asset his is incredible bulk, which is very helpful at some of the tougher spots in the game. Now that I have 6 of each Elemental Djinn, I'm having him run Renegade for extra attacking power.

The Tamer Class is fine throughout the game imo. Its main flaw is the odd Djinn Distribution it requires, especially since there's only 3 Item Classes.
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« Reply #457 on: February 03, 2019, 04:55:22 PM »

If you have tips for Piers' classes now is a good time cause I'm getting ready to release the next version
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« Reply #458 on: February 03, 2019, 05:33:53 PM »

As far as Piers' classes go, there really isn't much I would change, aside from maybe giving General the Cool Psynergy instead of Ice.

As for people playing Reloaded, I highly suggest running Piers under Jupiter to help him catch up with the party, so he's not acting at the end of the turn (unless it's a Djinni Battle, in which case, put Felix under Jupiter for Paralyze and Piers under Mars for better damage).

Once you get all of the Eastern Sea Djinn (excluding the one in Lemuria), have Felix run Shinobi (3 Mars 3 Jupiter ) and Piers run Renegade (3 Mars 3 Jupiter ) so Jenna and Sheba can run Dual Wish/Heal so Poseidon isn't overwhelmingly difficult.

After Poseidon, what you want Piers as is pretty much up to you. After all, once you beat Poseidon, you've pretty much beaten TLA up until the Twin Flame Dragons.
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« Reply #459 on: February 03, 2019, 11:54:15 PM »

I'm not sure exactly how to fix these issues but Piers has noticeably worse physical damage, offense Psynergy, and speed than Felix for a long stretch for most of the Eastern Sea making him pretty bad for this stretch of the game in my experience. After that he becomes a bit better since he's the closest thing to a hybrid but I don't think hybrid is a particularly valuable niche to have.
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December 04, 2019, 11:48:57 AM
Fox: (Uh... Ignore "Love" at the beginning... I think I started to say it in a different way, then changed my mind.)
December 04, 2019, 11:47:50 AM
Fox: Love gsiconcompressor has been updated... Mainly an attempt to make icon editing a bit more straight-forward than ever before. Although, the coding wasn't exactly that straight-forward.
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Fox: So like... a layers offset might normally be located at +0xC, but in Tennis, it is at +0x10)
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Fox: only canadians give up dont be a canadian
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October 31, 2019, 06:52:17 AM
Fox: (Ofcourse it would be capitalized if it were the name of a system, and anytime that system would be referenced... but I'm more going with why we *never* see Psynergy and Djinni not capitalized.)
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