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[RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded

Started by Caledor, 22, December, 2016, 03:56:07 PM

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VardenSalad

#80
Wow, Deadbeard. There's an off-chance that a Dull doesn't stick, Beardy gets an Impact off, and then double Sweeps your team. I actually don't know if I had access to Break at level 27, I'd have to check on the editor.

But, yeah, Deadbeard is really, really, really hard, but fair, I suppose. It's a heavyweight fight. I've got a save for before him that I'll post later. I'm getting to the point where I'm afraid that you can never afford to ever summon ever because you can't take the loss of stats and summons don't have enough pop considering you're taking 7 turns off to unleash, summon, and recover 4 djinn. So, I dunno, but buffing Isaac and having him beat Deadbeard by smacking him with the Gaia Blade doesn't feel much different than the old Sol Blade beatdowns you worked so hard to invalidate. Psynergy still doesn't do that much damage if you're in multi-elemental classes, so, personally, I'd up the multiplier with MaxPP. Also, holy moley, when do you get access to second level of Punishment?

Was it a better experience than vanilla? Yeah.
Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

@Babi's Jupiter Djinni: my bad. My indexes for pasting from the italian rom were off by 1 enemy and since that djinn was the very last enemy he wasn't updated. Mine still has wind slash but blue bolt is replaced by shine plasma and has ~300 more hp and 20 more defense. It also has tornado and sonic slash though.

@Retribution: learnt at level 29, but boasts 135 power. For reference, Serpent Fume (power 130) is learnt at 28, while Sonic Slash (power 120 but 5 targets) at 30. I'm getting that quite often though so I might reduce that power a bit to lower the level requirement as well (on average: 10 power = 3 levels).

@Break: you do. The earliest break is learned is at 26 by the Armed class series. IIRC i lowered this value in one of the latest Balance Age releases especially for deadbeard.

@Deadbeard and summoning:
A few reminders. the time to recover from a summon is tied to class setup, so it's completely up to the player. Base class setup grants the highest power but also the longest recovery time, while double and triple class setup halve the recovery time for example.
About psynergy... the issue might be related to deadbeard "typing". His lower resistances are to Venus and Mars and in GS you just lack the power boosting equipment AND the psynergies to make efficient casters for those 2 elements. I will gladly test that save one of these days though.

VardenSalad

All good points. It's tough to see Retribution just barely out of level reach, but I've also played the game a billion times so there's no much screwing around to pick up extra xp. For Babi's djinn: no big, that's just bug fixing.

About Break, I hadn't thought to look at that particular set-up (that's Garet dual-ele with Mercury) because Mercury djinn are at such a premium for access to a second Wish for Ivan for healing at the very start of a turn. And you really, really need access to that second wish. I know that you can pull Wish on Isaac and Garet, but their tiny PP pools and incredible Attack makes sticking them on healing duty very, very sub-optimal. I'm sure there's other classes that get it, I just didn't find it. No big deal.

Psynergy power specifically: I didn't mean against Deadbeard. I think by the end of the game that it was so much easier to roll with having Ivan attack every turn and focus Ivan, Isaac, and Garet on a single enemy with attacks and pray for unleashes to try and eliminate one enemy then another in short order. I'm almost positive that (and you can check on that save file) Ivan does more damage with one unleash from either the Zodiac Wand or Crystal Rod than with two casts of his strongest psynergy when he's at 27 or 28. I'll have to run it a couple times with base classes to get higher elememtal power.
Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

#83
Just beat Dullahan with your save without changing anything in your setup.

The double healer team is so resilient I could easily spam djinn and summon during the whole battle (i think the highest i've had on standby was 5 or 6, with an average of 2) and even finish him off with judgement (didn't count damage, i just though it was about time and i managed to stabilize at that point). The hardest part was when mia run out of pp (seriously pal, you've gotta spread healing items more). Always have some kind of buff active (especially resistance) but don't get to greedy with them, cause that's where Break hurts badly.

Oh, and remember that single target debuff are stronger but also have a lower chance to hit. If dull wasn't working, you should've switched to Blunt ;)

VardenSalad

#84
I totally misunderstood the relationship between the debuffs and AoE then. I thought the single target would be more likely to hit. That makes sense though, because it's tuned explicitly for bosses and really hasn't much use in general PvE. Consistently being able to get his attack lowered would neuter Deadbeard completely.

As for Double Wish being resilient, hell yeah it is. I needed to survive to 300+ damage Sweeps if Deadbeard buffed himself and mine didn't stick, one after Ivan used it and then Mia. I guess my setup was far from perfect.
Never forget why you started playing.

Rolina

Quote from: Caledor on 23, February, 2017, 09:02:48 AM@Retribution: learnt at level 29, but boasts 135 power. For reference, Serpent Fume (power 130) is learnt at 28, while Sonic Slash (power 120 but 5 targets) at 30. I'm getting that quite often though so I might reduce that power a bit to lower the level requirement as well (on average: 10 power = 3 levels).
You could always consider making it a 3-tier spell like Fume, or having it work in an upgrade path akin to spells like Ragnarok → Odyssey.

Caledor

#86
Quote from: Rolina on 25, February, 2017, 02:07:31 PMYou could always consider making it a 3-tier spell like Fume, or having it work in an upgrade path akin to spells like Ragnarok → Odyssey.
It already is. Retribution is the second tier of the Punishment series, which is basically a slightly stronger Jupiter fume (third stage is Scrouge).

VardenSalad

Yeah, there's really just not enough game in either of the Golden Suns to take advantage of the highest level Psynergy. The level cap easily could have been 50 and balanced accordingly.
Never forget why you started playing.

VardenSalad

Alright, Saturos, Menardi, and Fusion Dragon have all fallen. Fusion Dragon's constant poisoning and haunting of whoever had the cursed gear and Angel's Ring was an annoyance, but he's far less than Deadbeard was. Saturos and Menardi was a good fight too; as long as Death Seize manages to hit a few times and makes you stabilize.

I guess it's on to TLA now. Cal, I assume you're going to be doing your own runthrough of TBS, so I guess I'll go ahead and continue documenting bug reports and leave my thoughts on the second game in the series as I play through it.
Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

#89
Quote from: VardenSalad on 26, February, 2017, 05:44:46 PM
Alright, Saturos, Menardi, and Fusion Dragon have all fallen. Fusion Dragon's constant poisoning and haunting of whoever had the cursed gear and Angel's Ring was an annoyance, but he's far less than Deadbeard was. Saturos and Menardi was a good fight too; as long as Death Seize manages to hit a few times and makes you stabilize.

I guess it's on to TLA now. Cal, I assume you're going to be doing your own runthrough of TBS, so I guess I'll go ahead and continue documenting bug reports and leave my thoughts on the second game in the series as I play through it.

Everything here sounds just perfect to me. Especially cause TLA is where the real fun begins: new items, new enemies, rearranged treasures, new spells...

VardenSalad

Hmm, I haven't run into it yet (honestly, not out of the prologue yet) but I was wondering what you thought about your ability to have a party full of healers as soon as you get the first two Djinn in TLA? Assuming Felix's Swordsman class hasn't been tampered with, you're fully capable of making healing kind of a non-factor in terms of in-dungeon PP usage.

Do you think doing something like pushing healing off of the first level classes for Jenna or Felix would fix this or do you see it as not a problem?
Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

#91
Honestly, I don't think I've ever seriously thought about it, but I can see your point.
It IS a problem for overall balance (albeit a minor one), but I also think that making an exception to class builds to address this 6-level issue (by comparison, Mia joins at 10 in GS and you start at 4 in TLA) is overdoing it: after level 10 you'd be losing a healing spell line after djinn unleashes/summon/djinn storm for no apparent reason.

The perfect solution would be altering djinn spread in the early game, to push back that single mercury djinn.

VardenSalad

#92
Alright, Dekhan Plateau Mars Djinn wrecks things. Starburst 2hkos the entire team and you can't counter it. I think Fire is fine, but Starburst wrecks.

Save posted
Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

#93
Tested, and it's actually fine. this one's the mars equivalent of the Tret Tree Jupiter Djinn. Same level, same number of team members, better equipment in GS, djinn slightly weaker in TLA to compensate. In fact, Breeze has more HP AND Plasma, which is stronger than starburst (also Flare is weaker than Whirlwind).

Thanks anyway!

PS: Chance for double starburst is 8,8%.

VardenSalad

I am running quite a streak of pulling the combination that just eats your team for djinn (that I inevitably complain about here). Don't worry about it too much, though.

I'll keep posting saves and whatnot in the future.
Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

Nono, you're the one who shouldn't worry about what (or not) to report. By all means, post here every little bit that "disappoints" you. Dekhan's Djinn is barely safe and strongly backed up by another djinn in TBS, but he's the exception. You never know where i might feel "this is a bit too much". ;)

VardenSalad

Alright, since I posted the Dekhan one and you can walk, I'm not posting a save but, I really really don't know about this Venus djinn outside Madra. This guy REALLY hurts.

Assuming you're not hunting for him specifically abusing the fact that hard resets give you a free first turn, Thorn and Gaia just crushed my team. I don't know what the odds are to get him to roll Spire multiple times, but if you cant pull that outcome, it's likely that someone will die unless you're running double or triple healing, which is just stalling until you get a spire in my opinion, plus he seems to run away quite often. I need to look specifically at how much HP this thing has, because I think it living too many turns is the issue.

Maybe I should be running double healing at this juncture, but man, does that djinn hurt.
Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

This is quite strange. The Venus Djinn outside madra has ~60 more HP than Dekhan's (but you should have gained 1 level since that fight), replaces flare for Spire and 1 starburst for Punji (45 power so stronger). Apart from this, the core of their moves is identical: Thorn and Gaia are just element swaps of Fire & Starburst so, if anything, the problem should be Spire since that's where the power gap is... or to a lesser extent, punji.

VardenSalad

Does Sour not drop resistance unconditionally anymore? Or is it subject to luck and ele. power calculations?
Never forget why you started playing.

Caledor

Sour's effect was the same as weaken's before so it's always been subject to luck and ele level difference.

Remember that now defender's luck and attacker's level are the only stats that affect the chance to inflict debuffs/ailments